Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:05, 29 July 2009

Notable versus Non-notable

As the project creator, I wanted to start off to clarify notability for players and other subjects. I've given each a seperate header below, please discuss: BrianZ 13:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Players

- I consider anyone in the Volleyball Hall of Fame notable. The article for the Hall of Fame has a lot of red links that can be fixed with this project. - Anyone who has ever medaled on more than one Olympic team and gone on to compete or coach the sport. This would rule out the guys that play in the Olympics, medal with one team and never play the sport competitively again. - Top money makers on the AVP Tour should be added as well to start. Once these players are more thorough, we can add the lower rank guys and girls. - International players that are popular in their countries can be added/translated too. This is a main reason for the project. There are alot of articles for players in foreign countries that we can translate to English but I only know one language. - I do not consider high school phenoms notable and should not be added until at least their senior year of college or when they play for the national team. BrianZ 13:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm gonna join your project but I want to make sure that this article is not to USA oriented, which the above text suggests. the Volleyball Hall of Fame is a typical american institution (just like almost all hall of fames are), but volleyball is a very international sport. There should definitely not be too much focus on american players or the AVP. -Catneven 09:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with your International take. I'm from the US and know american volleyball well, but part of the reason I started this project is to learn more about International play. I would like professional leagues from all over the world to be recognized, I just don't know much about them yet, so I haven't mentioned them. I mention Hall of Fame because it's a start and the HOF does recognize international players and coaches who affect the sport. It's an american instition because the sport was invented here. I hope that at some point we have members on the project that can help out with the international articles. BrianZ 13:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Subjects

Notable volleyball subjects include all world leagues and professional tours. Any amateur leagues or tournaments should not be included, i.e. Church leagues, Joe Shmoes USAV club team, etc. Variations on the sport are also notable

I do have a question for anyone reading. Do you feel we should have articles for rulebooks? I don't think so but I'm researching other sports projects to see what they have. BrianZ 13:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

And here as well; a tiny bit of USA orientation. In the Netherlands (my home country) the national volleyball league is very notable and has earned a lot of international respect as being one of the better leagues. It is however for the majority an amateur league.-Catneven 10:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Same as my above agreement, I only mention US organizations and leagues because that's all I know now. Let's get the international recognition going. BrianZ 13:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

About the rulebooks. I think we hould have one major article about volleyball rules, which should contain the IFVB rules. We can have seperate (small) articles about the differences in different countries (usa, netherlands), variations (Beach, impared).-Catneven 10:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, that might be tricky but we can use color background to differentiate between differing rules. For instance, USAV follows FIVB rules but has changes to specific rules highlighted in grey when they differ for junior levels. As long as the colors aren't too distracting, that might be a great article. BrianZ 13:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

What about something like what is used for Baseball - Category:Baseball rules? While there, why not Volleyball Statistics like Baseball StatisticsBrianZ 21:13, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. I just checked the baseball rules article and it's grotesque. Perhaps we can modify the section from the volleyball article, shorten it in the main article and then revamp a new article based on the "main" rules and add variations there.. Cheers, PaddyM 01:12, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

This last remark should be put on the article talk page itself. I think something like this was proposed there as well.-Catneven 09:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Meaning that the creation of a rules article can be discusses here, but that the 'revamping' of the volleyball article should be discussed there.-Catneven 09:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

In volleyball it not a common practice to keep statistics, other than uses for opponent analysis. The public is mostly not too interested in them.-Catneven 09:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, as a coach I use them constantly and many young players are asked to record stats while on the bench and alot of people are unaware of how statistics are used and why. I look into it further and maybe create a draft article for everyone else's review. BrianZ 14:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

My personal opinion is that stats aren't interesting to the general reader. While it would be possible to make a page on the collection and use of volleyball statistics, I think that would be verging on being an instruction manual, not an encyclopedic article. That said, there do seem to be some academic papers on volleyball statistics, which could be used as the basis for an article. Cheers --Pak21 14:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I also think we should not work towards a too detailed description of the rules. The bottom specifics of the rules can then be found in the links we provide too official rulebooks. This shoudl remain an encyclopedia and does not necessarily need to encompass an entire rulebook.-Catneven 09:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Check out the page I created (Volleyball rules) Let me know what you think. My idea is to have articles for at least each section and break down rules, as well as major differences among larger organizations with color coded footnotes to the FIVB rules listed. BrianZ 14:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Drop the "What is Volleyball" section; that is duplicating information in the main article for no particular reason. I'd also say that the listing of every section of the FIVB rulebook is unnecessary: Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a reference manual. My personal view is that the page should focus more on the evolution of the rules over the years and the reasons for the changes, rather than just being a summary of the rulebook. Cheers --Pak21 14:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I have proposed deletion for Hunter Hitmen, which appears to me to be a non-notable club. Cheers --Pak21 19:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that deletion. I saw it when I was assessing some of the million or so vball-related pages and had a note to nominate it myself.BrianZ 19:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

College Coaches

I'm currently involved in a dispute over notability and could use some feedback. Vera Shaver (volleyball coach) is the page in question, and it is a part of Malone College Athletics. One Misplaced Pages editor believes this article should be "speedy deleted" because of notability. My stance is that she was a college coach and deserves at least a stub to match the other coaches of the program, if only to prevent redlining in coaches Navbox and team records. Naturally, this article will likely be expanded as time goes on. Opinions?--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I placed the speedy delete tag and do not believe Vera Shaver meetes the basic criteria of notability as specified in WP:Bio. Jons63 (talk) 16:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

My other question: why just this one coach? There is a Navbox at the bottom of the page, and you can find other coaches that were only there one year. Why was this coach singled out for deletion? And if several of the other coaches are deleted, then we would have an incomplete information on this particular volleyball program. Plus, as time goes on, we may find that these coaches have moved on to other coaching positions at other colleges and the articles can be further built.

It's all just a part of being complete and thorough.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I hit Random Article and that is the article that came up. I didn't go any further and review articles that were linked from the article. After the question was raised, I followed some of the links and there are other, IMO, non-notable coaches, but I thought I would see how this came out before going any further. Jons63 (talk) 16:45, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I saw these on Special:Newpages earlier and worried about them as well. Misplaced Pages's basic notability guideline requires non-trivial coverage in independent publications, and I don't see any sign of this on any of the articles. That said, I don't think it's a speedy as there is an assertion of notability, but equally, it wouldn't stand up at AfD in its current form. With regards to the other coaches, other stuff exists is not a good argument. --Pak21 (talk) 16:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I have declined to delete Vera Shaver on a speedy basis, in the hope that some sense can be worked out here. However, in my view, if there's nothing to say about them apart from dates and win/loss record, list the coaches and their records in another article. That way, at least their stats can be more easily compared. Some references would be nice too... Bencherlite 20:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the confidence in the delay. That will give some time for the Malone College sports information department to forward information and for other data to be compiled. This will prevent having to re-make pages and we can still have a complete "package" of pages for coaches.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Userbox

I propose this userbox:

This user participates in WikiProject Volleyball.

That looks very nice, let's add it. How about the image? I like it and might change the Project template image to this, but I think it's a little blurry when viewed larger, can you sharpen it? BrianZ 13:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I also made a category for Project participants: Category:WikiProject Volleyball participants we should change either my userbox or yours to make them the same. I tried but got confused, you seem to know more about the userboxes. BrianZ 13:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

This userbox is fixed. So lets use this one. it points to your category.-Catneven 10:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

DAB repair

Just a heads up to anyone who is in the business of creating a lot of articles for this project - try not to link to ] as it is nothing more than a DAB page. Instead, make the link point to Volleyball World League instead. I don't mind fixing the DAB links, but its so easily avoided. Cheers, PaddyM 16:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that was me PaddyM, I'll do my very best to fix DAB links in the future. Thanks for the heads up. :) BrianZ 20:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Can i Join the project

i wanna help you guy to improve the volleyball articles and i made FIVB World League 2007 and 8 template

• FIVB World League
• Brazil Volleyball Squad 1984 Summer Olympics
• Brazil Volleyball Squad 1992 Summer Olympics
• Brazil Volleyball Squad 2004 Summer Olympics
• Brazil Squad 2002 FIVB Men's World Championship
• Brazil Squad 2006 FIVB Men's World Championship
• Brazil Squad 2006 Volleyball World League
• Brazil Squad 2007 Volleyball World League
• Brazil Squad 2003 Pan American Games

Wael.Mogherbi 00:22, 15 July 2007 (GMT)

Sure, just add your name to the list on the project page and list your specialties. BrianZ 14:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion

we should make an infobox for the players contain all there biography information

so i suggest the next template

That looks good, but maybe a more universal color, green seems too dark for the header. I think that works for indoor players. I'd like to see one for beach players on the FIVB circuit as well as AVP in America and other pro leagues in other countries. Maybe a stat for years played and finishes. Some AVP pros have a template already but not something created by this project. BrianZ 16:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Questions about articles

It would be good if this project could figure out some good standardizations between people and leagues and subjects so that coverage could be more balanced. I just made the Dax Holdren article, and I'm not sure what conventions to use to improve it further.

Also, in an unrelated question, does the beach volleyball world tour have an article on here anywhere? I wanted to link to it in regards to Holdren's past participation, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. matt91486 23:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

We are in the process of figuring out standardizations. You are welcome to help out with these for the articles. As for the beach volleyball league, do you mean the FIVB Beach Volleyball league? I know the FIVB has a beach league, but the article doesn't really mention it. BrianZ 02:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm honestly not sure which one I meant; his AVP page references the 'World Tour' and I'm not familiar enough with non-AVP play to know what precisely that refers to. In an additional question, is there any way to simplify the coding for the beach volleyball player infobox? I'd start adding it to players pages to get it started in use, but I'm just not sure where to begin with it. matt91486 21:14, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

VBC Galina

I wonder if you guys could take a look at VBC Galina – newly created, I just saved it from a speedy deletion and sort of managed to assert notability. It still needs a lot of work, and I've no expertise at all in that area. Thanks — alex.muller (talk • edits) 20:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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Project still active?

If anyone on this project is still active, with the Olympics going on now it would be a great time to create some articles and improve some others because media sources will be especially easily obtained. This would most impact articles that can be found at Volleyball at the 2008 Summer Olympics, but it would be great to get some articles on older players created as well. I'm up for helping if anyone wants to work on some bigger projects as well. matt91486 (talk) 17:33, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

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