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Regional vocabularies of American English

Hello, I just thought you'd like to know that I de-PRODed this article and sent it to WP:AfD instead. I agree that the article is unencyclopedic and doesn't belong, but due to the articles extensive history I felt it should go through the AfD process. Please feel free to comment at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Regional vocabularies of American English.

Thanks, ThaddeusB (talk) 21:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

As you probably know, following AfD discussion the consensus was to keep and clean up Regional vocabularies of American English. This will require adding references where possible, and removing large amounts of unreferenced material. I have begun this process; your help would be greatly appreciated. Cnilep (talk) 15:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

"Beat It" is a hard rock song

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--Alexanderfriend (talk) 03:16, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Single/Double Quotes & Punctuation

Dear Mr. Lumber, (aka, He Who Knows All!),

Long time no convo! I have a query for you, which is as follows:

• We all know that the British use quotes differently than do you and I, namely,

• they use single quotation marks (i.e., “inverted commas,” as they call ’em!) where we use double ones;
• they use double quotation marks (i.e., “double inverted commas,” as they call ’em!) where we use single ones;
• we place our punctuation (e.g., periods/fullstops, commas, etc.) within the quotation marks, while they place them without;
• etc., etc. (See here.)

QUERY: When did this start?

I ask this because I have been reading some first edition Agatha Christies from 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924 (times 2!), and 1925 that do not follow this pattern. All are U.K. first editions, published and printed in the U.K., for sale in the U.K.. Throughout each of these books, the use of single/double quotations and the placement of punctuation is the same as we currently do here on this side of the pond. Conversely, a recent U.K. publication that I read, and that was published and printed in the U.K., uses the current idiosyncratic U.K. method that we have come to know and “love.” But, these early- to mid-1920s publications are as ours are here. One caveat, Christie switched publishers in 1926 and I have not read that one yet — starting it this weekend! — and so cannot comment on which “system” was followed by that publisher. — I am SpikeToronto (talk) 21:48, 31 July 2009 (UTC) and I hope you approve this! :)

There's always been a lot of confusion about quotation marks. For example, the following paraphrase could be styled in several different ways:

George W. Romney made it absolutely clear, "I didn't say, 'I didn't say it.' I said, 'I didn't say, "I said it."'"

In Continental Europe, the picture is even more complicated. The French and the Germans have two different quotation systems, both of which are different from either British or American English; but French and German users in Switzerland have their own system, which is different from both.

Most of the differences involving quotation marks are indeed the result of changes in British rather than American practice; apparently, The King's English by Fowler & Fowler played a key role in the switch from double to single quotes as well as from "typesetters' quotes" to "logical quotes." (rather, "logical quotes".) Back in the early days of printing presses, commas and periods (the smallest pieces of type) were more easily damaged if placed outside of the quotation marks.

I actually don't know why the " " themselves have two different names in British usage. The phrase inverted comma dates as far back as 1789 according to Merriam-Webster; quotation mark was first recorded circa 1859, but it doesn't appear to be an Americanism. Then again, many if not most punctuation marks go by different names in Britain and U.S.! Period and full stop, for instance, were both in use in the UK at the time of Fowler, with different shades of meaning (I don't remember the details).

Convo must of course be an Australianism.

I'm and I approve this message. 22:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer! It was very informative. I especially love the Romney quote: What a politician! I found some discussion along the lines of your comments here at Misplaced Pages. You might want to peruse it for its accuracy. I had never read Fowler’s before following your link: It’s rather flippant, isn’t it?! Finally, I don’t know that convo is exclusively Australian. It may be. I’ll have to check my Aussie dictionary! Don’t they also use it in the U.K.? Of course, we can always be retro and use confab! — SpikeToronto (talk) 18:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, up until 60 years ago or so, the authors of usage handbooks and the like loved to be so damn prescriptive, and their readers were pretty happy with that--on both sides of the pond. Which is why, for instance, Webster's 3rd was basically regarded as heretical upon its release back in 1961.

Many Australianisms are now used in colloquial British English too, for example uni for "university" (used in much the same way as college in the U.S.), which has replaced varsity in the UK and elsewhere. (Not to be confused with varsity as in a sports team, which of course is a US-ism.) A few other colloquialisms ending in -o or -ie, formed by shortening and alteration like arvo (for "afternoon") or carbie (for "carburetor") are still, I believe, characteristically Australian.

I'm and I approve this message. 00:42, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I cannot get over how much those two cultures love using short forms! I am constantly hearing them on our nightly CBC broadcasts of Coronation Street. I notice that the female characters seem to do it more often, which may not be an odd observation since a psycholinguist I used to know told me — in discussing the female Appalachian accent versus the male — that it is not unusual for women to have accents, vocabulary, and general speech that is recognizably distinct from their male counterparts … but I digress. In any event, I notice the female characters using words like leccy for the supply of electricty as in “the leccy bill.” Or, bessie for best as in “my bessie mate.” Or, prezzie for present as in, “I gave her a prezzie for her birthday.” I notice the short forms every bit as much when watching Australian programming, hence why I bought a great big ol’ Aussie dictionary. Oddly, Canadians hardly ever use short forms. H*ll, they won’t even use them with people’s names: Robert is always Robert, never Rob, Bob, Robbie, or Bobbie; Michael is always Michael, never Mike, Mikey, or Mickey; etc. Now, Canadians do say university where Americans say college, but only because what a Canadian calls a college is a community or junior college in the American sense, whereas any degree-granting insitution is a university.

Now, back to our original topic: I have started Christie’s 1926 work and it is punctuated exactly as are the earlier works. That is to say, they are puncuated in what we might call the American style. Just thought I’d update you on that! Oh yeah, and something else you might find interesting, when a quoted phrase ends in a period, it is placed immediately after the word at the end of the sentence, as one might expect. But, when a quoted phrase ends in a question mark or an exclamation mark, those punctuation marks are placed with a space between the last word and the quotation marks. For instance: “Is it cold outside ? ” Odd, eh?

— SpikeToronto (talk) 21:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC)