Revision as of 07:49, 9 December 2005

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• Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive13#Willy on Wheels legal action? → Misplaced Pages talk:Vandalism in progress/Willy on Wheels#Willy on Wheels legal action? — Ambush Commander 00:17, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

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Sometimes there are conversations that admins should take a look here. Then, make an announcement here. No more than eight announcements here at a time, most recent up top. please don't reply to announcements. If your announcement makes nine, delete the oldest one, but be courteous (don't delete one that was just created an hour ago, maybe you should wait a little bit). Remember, there's always user talk pages.

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• Special:Log/newusers - See also Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)#Newuserlog. Originally posted by cesarb 22:34, 7 September 2005 (UTC) moved by — Ambush Commander 23:23, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

• I, AllyUnion, in my official capacity as programmer-in-particular, hereby bestow upon the Misplaced Pages, the mighty and presigious Reset Button for all Sandboxes, including the templates "Please leave alone" templates. For any questions regarding this particular reset button, please let me know. --AllyUnion (talk) 11:34, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Tasks

The following backlogs require the attention of one or more editors.
Transwiki to Wikibooks and Wiktionary

NowCommons, Requested moves, Vandalism in progress, AfD cleanup, Copyright Problems and Requests for page protection

General

Tony Blair

Okay, what just happened to the Tony Blair article?

Atlant 14:59, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

WoW moved it, Curps and Dbiv fixed it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:01, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!

Atlant 15:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Admins who unblock themselves

What's the policy on admins who unblock themselves? Ed Poor blocked Duncharris for this edit. Duncharris unblocked himself claiming that Ed was a POV pusher. I re-blocked Duncharris for violation of the rule that states "Sysops are technically able to unblock themselves by following this procedure but should absolutely not do so" in the Blocking policy. Was this the right course of action? — Asbestos | Talk (RFC) 16:51, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Technically it seems you took the right action, however I believe this is a case of WP:IAR, as the initial block was totally disproportionate (as far as I can tell anyway, I may be wrong if there is some history here or something). A few days ago I was autoblocked myself because my bot was briefly blocked, when I unblocked myself I was immediately re-blocked for violation of this rule, I think it was totally crazy and very un-wiki like, it was also extremely frustrating and a very quick way of losing good editors. Martin 17:09, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

You are using the block the punish Duncharris, not for for a good reason ie "vandalism, bots, personal attacks, and inappropriate usernames" (WP:BP). Could you remove the block now.--Commander Keane 17:14, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

You missed out the disruption clause, which I suppose would be Ed's justification (not saying I agree with that, just saying). Giving out commands like your last edit isn't especially polite, by the way. -Splash 17:18, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

You can't use IAR and technically in the same sentence, it is a contradiction in terms. Unblocking when you have been accidentally blocked is obviously fine. Unblocking yourself because you disagree with the nature of a block is emphatically not. Such an action was part of Stevertigo's recent de-adminningish. It is not unwikilike, since we block all the time. And Ed Poor may well be crazy, so you have a point there. I trust the relevant talk page has been availed of before coming here? -Splash 17:18, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

It's fine to unblock yourself when you're hit by an autoblock meant for someone else (even your own bot - the point is to stop the bot, not you yourself, from editing), so it appears that whoever reblocked Martin was being overzealous. However, unblocking yourself when you and the person who blocked you are in disagreement about the validity of the block is wholly another matter, and is inexcusable as far as I can tell. — Dan | Talk 17:17, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

There are over 600 admins here, with dozens (at a minimum) being active at any given time. If you believe an inappropriate block has been placed, there's several recourses. I'd suggest first posting a note on your talk page and emailing the blocking admin. If the blocking admin refuses to unblock, email the mailing list or visit IRC. Unblocking yourself is probably the worst way to handle the situation. With the number of admins we have, I'd expect very rapid action on any obviously inappropriate blocks. Carbonite | Talk 17:18, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

reply below follows multiple edit conflicts

Per Bluemoose/Martin, I'd say that it's appropriate to unblock oneself if the block is the result of 'collateral damage' caused by the autoblocker, a dubious block of an AOL proxy, or some similar case—that is, if the block clearly isn't intended to affect the admin in question then I see no reason not to let him unblock himself.

For blocks that were deliberately applied to the admin in question, the blocked admin shouldn't go unblocking himself. (At most, the unblocking should be temporary, and solely for the purpose of requesting a review of the block at WP:AN/I.) Even in cases where the block is inappropriate, it's best to let another admin do the unblocking. To do otherwise is to ask for block wars and all kinds of other trouble.

Given the abusive unblocking message left by Duncharris (see the blocking log) he probably needs a bit of time to cool off, and the reblocking by Asbestos should stand. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:25, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I am lifting the block - it was wholly inappropriate to tag the article within a minute of its creation, and Duncharris's response is understandable, if unfortunate. Phil Sandifer 17:22, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Tagging an article within one minute is absolutely fine (in general, rather than in particular). -Splash 17:23, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

No, it's really not. People take multiple edits to make an article - it's not at all uncommon to see a flurry of five or six edits at the start of an article's history page. To tag an article as a speedy within a minute of its creation is to assume bad faith in the creator - give them some time to finish their initial version of the article before you whack it. Phil Sandifer 17:30, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not disputing your unblocking, but why is it wholly inappropriate to tag an article within minutes of its creation? Isn't that the whole point of newpages patrol? Wouldn't it have been infinitely more productive for Duncharris to have expanded the article slightly and then removed the tag instead telling another editor to "fuck off"? Or perhaps he could have even began the article with the expanded version? Carbonite | Talk 17:30, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

It is appropriate to delete some articles on sight, and to tag them on sight. There is surely no disagreement over that, unless you're such a rabid inclusionist you need an inclusionectomy. I would suggest that an article whose first word is "sir" in the kinghthood sense should, however, be allowed more than 1 minute to form. -Splash 17:38, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Indeed - I've never disputed whacking patent nonsense and the like on sight. Things that appear to be about people and plausibly notable subjects, on the other hand, do us no harm by sitting for a day before we kill them to see if someone wants to add the assertion of notability. Phil Sandifer 17:47, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

New pages patrol is important for catching patent nonsense, copyvio, and things like that. It's inappropriate to use it to zap pages before their creators have finished them. People, empirically, do not submit their edits in a single shot. It's very common to make a big edit in a series of five or six smaller edits. To make a claim of the form of "no assertion of notability" within a minute of creation is just unfair. Phil Sandifer 17:32, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

That's why you need to do the asserting of notability in the very first edit. Even if you don't get around to editing the article after that, at least we won't be stuck with a crap article. The point of Newpages patrol is to get rid of crap. Creators should make sure their entries aren't mistaken for crap. We can only watch newpages that have been created in the last few minutes, if we don't act quick on something newly created, there's no real way to keep it in check apart from listing the articles on a user subpage for later checking which - to me - seems too time-consuming for something that should be quick and simple. - Mgm| 23:33, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

When you tag an article as a speedy, you should have a look at who is creating it. That should be common sense. An anon, a user with no edit history...things like that. Not when you see an established editor creating a page. Guettarda 18:01, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Whoa, deja vu. I once {{db}}'d a stub Dunc wrote on a biologist, without realizing who the author was, and got an edit summary along the lines of "don't be stupid". If I had been an admin at the time, I wouldn't have even considered blocking him even if he had dropped the f-bomb on me, and a certainly didn't complain about it, even to him; I made a mistake, and it didn't bother me at all. Dunc probably shouldn't have unblocked himself, but the block was pretty silly in the first place. Since when can an admin block someone for a single instance of a personal attack? android79 18:18, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, since when can one such comment warrant a block. I could see "FUCK YOU YOU GONNA DIE!", but a curse word by an angry editor would, and should, only warrant a warning. Interesting that an admin gets blocked for losing his cool(which I admit he shouldn't have), but vandals can't get blocked until after they put "FUCK BUSH" three or four times all over articles. And off course, I have seen people defend the vandals too. Personally I follow a 2 strike rule,...but thats another story...Anyway, lets try to respect admins/editors more than vandals/trolls. If vandals can't get blocked this easily, then admins/editors cant either.Voice of All 18:28, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

This is not the first time Duncharris has employed the use of vulgarities, it appears to be habitual:

• - "fuck off"
• - "grrrr!!! I want save not fucking preview!"
• - "save not preview!!! fucking hell"
• - "yeah whatever. To Bahn Mi (cos I know you're watching) fuck off"
• - "Talk:Fjellstrand Skole moved to Talk:Fjellstrand skole: Do not move VFD nominations, it fucks them up real good"
• - "Abusive language - fuck off"
• - "seriously fucked up"
• "Portmadoc, Beddgelert & South Snowdon Railway moved to Portmadoc, Beddgelert and South Snowdon Railway: I hate having to fucking do this!"
• "Rushden, Higham & Wellingborough Railway moved to Rushden, Higham and Wellingborough Railway: and AND AND AND AND AND AND AND AND for fuck sake how many of these bleeding things do I have to move?"
• - "totally disputed. fucking group selection!"
• - "what the fuck is this?"
• - "Morality links -fucking hell"
• - "fucking hell!"
• - "oh for fucks sake,"
• - "for fucks sake!"
• - "delete this fucking page"

• - "that's becuas eit Neo-Lamarckian bullshit rather than ID bullshit"
• - "OMG what utter shite."
• - "cleanup tags should be for shit articles, though not perfect, this ain't bad."
• - "delete patent nonsense, POV christian fundamentalist bullshit."

• - "delete this crap"
• - "crap"
• - "more crap"
• - "crap"
• - "crap"
• - "REDIRECT medicine (will vfd if neccesary cos it's crap)"
• - "WP:CIVIL - the crap is of your own making dear boy"

This information was obtained during a cursory contribution grep, some of the actual comments made beyond the edit summaries are much more offensive. This type of attitude is poisonous to Misplaced Pages, and a review of his talk page archives reveal that he has been asked on multiple occassions to treat others with civility. I would expect this type of flagrant disregard for Misplaced Pages policy from a vandal, not an administrator for heaven's sake. Silensor 19:27, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Cursing is not in and of its self a fucking violation of policy. Phil Sandifer 20:19, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

True, but it often creates a shitty editing environment. Carbonite | Talk 20:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

All jokes aside, this is not only about cursing. This is about violating the Misplaced Pages:Civility policy. Silensor 20:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Cursing is not in and of its self a violation of policy. Cursing at someone, telling them to "fuck off" after being asked to be civil, and calling all their edits "crap" and "bullshit" repeatedly, is violation of policy and is not becoming of an administrator.

My original question was merely asking whether admins should be allowed to unblock themselves when they have had a block explicitly placed on themselves. Personally I'm now wondering about this user's role as an administrator. — Asbestos | Talk (RFC) 20:47, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I saw the "Fuck off" edit summary while I was checking articles marked for speedy deletion. I left a polite note about it on Dunc's talk page, which I felt more apropriate than a block for a one-off incident (I didn't know about any others at the time, and didn't have time to investigate further). Dunc emailed me at about 4pm this afternoon (UTC) asking me to unblock him and made another personal attack against Ed Poor in the email. I've been out all day and didn't see the email until about 20 minutes ago, so I did not get involved in the unblocking. I would personally have blocked him for 12 hours for unblocking himself and the personal attacks in the email and his unblock summary. With all the information that I've since seen on the subject, I believe that RfC is the apropriate avenue for this to continue. Thryduulf 21:04, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Civility? How is "grrrr!!! I want save not fucking preview!" a civility violation? Is the software offended? Guettarda 20:55, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe Tim is. Phil Sandifer 21:02, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that none of those edits are against WP:Civility? Silensor may have put extra that shouln't be there, but there are certainly many there that are simply abusive to other editors. — Asbestos | Talk (RFC) 21:12, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Going through the listed edits, I find four: that could even be argued as incivility directed at a person, and I'd dispute the last of those. The list spans nearly a year. I think we can survive an admin who swears at someone once every three months. Phil Sandifer 21:08, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I quote the No personal attacks policy (Examples of an attack):

Negative personal comments and "I'm better than you" attacks, such as "You have no life."

and more pointedly:

Profanity directed against another contributor.

Seems like he violated policy. I haven't read through all of the above comments, so I cannot comment on the full context of the situation. --LV 21:19, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Blocking_policy#Unblocking also specifically states:

Sysops are technically able to unblock themselves by following this procedure but should absolutely not do so. So far the policies breached by Duncharris include: Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy, Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks, and Misplaced Pages:Civility. Silensor 21:59, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Violating policy four times in a year? Not something we should celebrate, but nor is it a huge deal. Taken as part of Dunc's wealth of contributions, and the fact that he does deal with a lot of kooks and mischief makers, we should not be criticising him. We're talking about an editor with almost 22,000 edits, the vast majority of them excellent edits. Guettarda 22:01, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Addendum: Two of the 4 that Phil linked to are simply "Oh, for fuck's sake"...I don't see those as personal attacks. If, on the other hand, we are going to censure people for using the word fuck, please let me know so that I can leave now. Guettarda 22:07, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

We shouldn't make exceptions for people with a lot of edits. They are just editors, same as we. Just because someone has a ton of edits does not give them the right to violate policy, and people who let them slide for this reason are not doing WP any favors. In fact, they should probably be held to higher standards, seeing as they've been around so long they should know policy. --LV 22:10, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Suppose Duncharris had not yet been through RfA. Suppose the list of edit summaries above were presented. 1)Would he receive a block? 2)Would he be made an admin at the end of the 7 days? -Splash 22:12, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

No, he probably wouldn't, though to tell you the truth, the reason most RfB's fail is because once you have been here long enough and have been active you will have made enemies - probably enough to sink your nom. Guettarda 22:51, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

For the record I think that Ed's block was completely appropriate. Is anyone really contesting that telling someone to fuck off is not a serious violation of WP:CIVIL?

Guettarda, I would not at all censure you for using the word fuck. But I would absolutely censure you if you said "fuck off", to another editor, in anger. And, if you did that, you'd deserve it.

And I absolutely agree with Lord Voldemort. The rules apply to experienced users as much as to newbies. Arguably, we should be setting a higher standard. Nandesuka 22:18, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

But is a block the way to deal with it? As far as I understand a block is never used as a punishment. Even a vandal would not be dealt with in this fashion, plus it makes it difficult to communicate your point of view if you have been blocked. Martin 22:30, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Since we're all high on policy at the moment, could someone explain to me, per the blocking policy, how a 24-hour block, without warning and without explanation on the user's talk page, is warranted for an isolated instance of a personal attack? android79 22:34, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Android. It wasn't done without explanation on the user's talk page. See this. Ann Heneghan 22:50, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough, but that doesn't make it any less ridiculous. We treat blatant vandals better than this. android79 22:53, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Mountain. violet/riga (t) 22:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Pfft! I actually went to the effort to make the article "molehill" for that to work, and nobody commented. Fine, I know where poor attempts at humour aren't wanted...  :) violet/riga (t) 11:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Well I would also like to say that the reason Ed blocked me is that we've had bad blood in the past because of his insistence on pushing his Moonie pseudoscience of the evolutionary biology topics. But yes, I know I shouldn't've sworn. — Dunc|☺ 22:46, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I have used my magic powers to block everyone involved for 24 hours microseconds for violation of WP:IAR. Please use this time to consider how this discussion advances the content of this wonderful free encyclopaedia, accessible to all, that we are creating for the good of humaninity. Guettarda 23:00, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Well for starters, IAR is not technically policy, whereas the others are. Now whether or not this specific block of Dunc was warranted can be argued elsewhere. However, the larger issue of Admins unblocking themselves does serve WP well, as it establishes some order and consequences of Admin actions. --LV 23:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

While some of these do significantly violated Civility, things such as "crap" don't, unless it is used in every other word ;0. Anyway, the violations deserve warning, but blocking over this is just inconsistant, as Android and I have pointed out, and too severe. I believe, that with such comments, he SHOULD NOT be an administrator, and I would vote him down if I had the chance, but its too late for that. Blocking is just going to far. If he makes a clear,severe, and direct personal attack, and you warn him, and he does it right again to you, then perhaps 6 hours will do, but 24 for what seem to be more scattered events is just over the top.Voice of All 23:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

This whole thing stinks on ice. --LV 23:07, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

An RFC has been filed, Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Duncharris, please comment. Silensor 23:32, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Well besides the RFC and this particular user, I am against self-unblocking period. As many admins as there are available, if you get accidentally autoblocked, it's still better to have another admin unblock you, for all we know, your account could have been compromised, etc. «»Who?¿? 23:46, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

And Jimbo said to his admins: Thou shalt never unblock thyself unless the rare case where you get blocked because of some jerk sharing your IP. And there was much rejoicing. Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 23:49, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Can I add this to WP:LAME despite it not being an edit war? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:09, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Phase II: Nohat

Looks like Nohat, a former arbitrator and the guy who drew up a logo or two for Wikimedia just unblocked himself . What now? Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 03:17, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Tsk tsk, Nohat. No cookie for you.

There. I think that covers what's needed here. Phil Sandifer 03:29, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Mostly. But the thing is it seems not enough people know we're not supposed to unblock ourselves... Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 03:35, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

You seriously think any admins don't know they shouldn't unblock themselves? Even so, ignorance is not a great excuse for abusing admin tools, considering command of Misplaced Pages policies is one of the thinkgs the community considers in granting them those tools. Dmcdevit·t 03:50, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Looks like a typical 3RR block to me, I'm considering reblocking (not looking forward to it) unless anyone does it first, or raises a reasonable objection... Dmcdevit·t 03:50, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

It will not be necessary to re-block me. I do not plan to make any further edits to Misplaced Pages until next Monday. Nohat 03:53, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Heh, I think he only did it for the sitenotice edit. But yes, some admins don't know about that clause. In fact one of the people who was desysopped for this stuff told me that he didn't know about it, and I AGF... Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 03:56, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

A different case - same rule or not?

I have unblocked myself several times. The reason? I share an IP with someone who is quite obviously a regular vandal. I was recently blocked for three months because of this vandal's actions. Given that in an average three months I make 12,000 edits to Misplaced Pages - of which, to my knowledge, none are vandalous - and also given that several other bona fide editors share the same IP and pester me by email when there's a block on this IP, I felt justified in unblocking after a length of time that was considerably less than three months (one hour, to be precise). Hopefully the new anon-only block of IPs that has been proposed (at Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy proposal) will be acted upon soon and this will all be moot, but for now the question remains - was I within my rights to do so? Grutness...wha? 11:43, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Of course you were. I've done the same on many occasions as well. — Dan | Talk 14:55, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I've done the same several times too. Dmn 20:25, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Me too, me too; I share my IP with several thousand people... Lectonar 14:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

• If the IP block clearly wasn't aimed at the admin in question, I see no problem with them unblocking themselves. - Mgm| 10:03, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Rob Blair

Can we do something about this user?? Check the contributions history for this user. --Sunfazer 16:28, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

It seems like he's already been blocked indef. Flcelloguy (A note?) 17:19, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Already blocked, yes, but there is a bigger issue. Please see above involving User:Robbie Blair as well. --Nlu 17:42, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Is the ArbCom aware of this? Flcelloguy (A note?) 17:45, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

What is the proper vehicle for making them aware of it? Pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. --Nlu 18:33, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

• No need to make them aware, I think. Just block and reset the counter. If you're banned, you're banned. - Mgm| 10:08, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

User:JuanMuslim

Seems to me to be trying lately to disrupt Misplaced Pages. He has created User:JuanMuslim/Wikipedia Boycott Campaign which, bizarrely, advocates a boycott of Misplaced Pages without any indication of what he objects to. I wanted to ask him about this, but he has redirected his talk page to his user page (which I suspect should not be allowed), and his user page doesn't give a clue what is going on.

He's done good work at Portal:Islam (and, I presume, elsewhere) so this is not you basic random flake. Does anyone know what is going on here? -- Jmabel | Talk 21:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

User_talk:JuanMuslim/Wikipedia_Boycott_Campaign#Questions In the one place where he has supposedly clarified, as far as I can tell he has only obfuscated further, citing only Criticism of Misplaced Pages in general as an explanation. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:08, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

• Talk pages are for contacting Wikipedians. Redirecting someone to the boycott campaign goes against the principle they're there for communication. - Mgm| 10:13, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Wonderfool

From Talk:Nihilartikel:

I've put in 4 nihilartikels into Misplaced Pages so far, with 2 being found and subsequently deleted, yet leaving 2 undetected as of November 25 2005. These nihilartikels have begun to appear less bogus, as they have been "wikified" by some other users (including a sysop). So there's gotta be hundred of nihilartikels in here, statistically. --Wonderfool t(c) 15:45, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

If true, quite a confession: deliberately creating false articles is pretty serious vandalism, in my view. I'd consider this a basis for a ban, unless he will identify the articles and remove them.

If there is somewhere more appropriate to bring this up, I'm amenable to moving the discussion. Does this require an RfC, or what? -- Jmabel | Talk 04:40, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Block him now. User:Zoe| 05:38, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I have blocked him. User:Zoe| 05:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Brutal. Anyway, Home-churching is one of them, if you view this as being worthy of some special category of speedy deletion. I'd rather see it make its way through AfD; the article was based on an Onion article, but I'm not entirely sure there isn't something real there too. Glitter lung, a more clear-cut case, is another, already in the middle of its AfD. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 05:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

If he's banned by community consensus, any hoax articles can be deleted under the "contributions by banned users" provision of CSD. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 06:23, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

We can just delete his hoaxes as self-confessed vandalism - regardless of whether he's banned or not. --Doc 13:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

FWIW, I think that was overhasty; he wasn't even given a chance to respond to my request on his talk page that he identify the articles so that we could delete them. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:03, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

• He can still edit his Talk page. User:Zoe| 07:04, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
  • If anyone really wants to do this, search his contribs log. I do believe this block is rather harsh, unless we want to set precedent by blocking people who write patent nonsense and such. Radiant_>|< 11:41, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I've unblocked Wonderfool. The infinite block is too harsh. Let's just take a step back, and let this slowly develop. We have not got a response from Wonderfool yet. There is not a sufficient urgency to ban here - we can do this at any time if we really needed to.

However, with one thing to note going forward: I do not want to see this situation degenerate into one where editors become motivated to comb through someone's edits for the purposes of finding "dirt". This situation can be resolved in a much more amicable way - for example, why not let Wonderfool tag those suspicious articles and send them to AfD? We are also forgetting that perhaps Wonderfool's statement may not be entirely complete - there might be something contextual that is missing. Finally, it may be the case that these nihilartikels may not be so - even if Wonderfool might have create them, it is also quite possible that they are meaningful to someone else. We just don't know. So for these reasons and other reasons, let's just take this one step at a time. Understandably, if we do find out an editor is deliberately sprinkling false articles into Misplaced Pages, that is at minimum an euphemistic irritance and a degeneracy of a certain level of trust - however, I don't think we need to act on this so harshly on this point at the moment. --HappyCamper 13:59, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Agreed - immediate blocks should be preventative. Is he carrying on doing this after being warned? Nothing to suggest this. We don't block for punishment, so if he promises not to do it again, then that's an end of it. If he refuses to explain himself in a reasonable time, I'd support an indef block until he does so, but give him 48 hours to reply. We don't ban vandals without several warnings, why shoudl it be different for a logged in user with a record of useful contributions?--Doc 14:07, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely, plus i would add this is more reason for needing the ability to sort user contributions by new articles as well as namespaces. Martin 14:31, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Not an admin, but I have to agree with Doc glasgow: it looks to me as if Wonderfool is a good editor, for the most part an asset to WP, with a sense of humour. My guess is that he regards this as playing a practical joke on his friends. Why not invite him to 'fess up and BJAODN them? They must be reasonably good hoaxes to get Wikified by other editors. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / (W) AfD? 21:07, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

p.s.: Martin is bang on the money. Being able to sort / search by new contribs would also be an asset to those of us who spend time vandal-scanning. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / (W) AfD? 21:09, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Why would we tolerate a User who brags about creating hoax articles that have not been found and doesn't want to let us know what they are? User:Zoe| 01:27, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

• That's absurd. You're single-handedly banning a user who has, it seems, made four bad calls. I'm not opposed to blocking users indefinitely without an arbcom ruling, but it's to be done with users who are entirely and wholly without merit - not users who have a specific and narrow problem. Phil Sandifer 01:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree. However, if Wonderfool doesn't step up, apologize, and indentify the articles in question, I might support a block.--Sean|Black 01:56, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Have you seen his Talk page? He's now being coy. Oh, well, maybe I didn't create any hoax articles after all. Oh, well, okay, there were two. What? You found another one? Well, maybe there are more, I don't remember. User:Zoe| 02:15, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm not excusing the conduct, but a unilateral ban is not appropriate for a user with good contributions. Bring the case to arbcom if you want a lengthy ban. Phil Sandifer 02:20, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I've only scanned this section, but I don't see anyone mentioning Wonderfool's actions at Wiktionary. He was a sysop and he deleted the Main Page and a few MediaWiki articles citing something like 'I'm tired of this shit' as his reason. Anyways, read WP:POINT, you'll see something like 'don't test how well Misplaced Pages works by creating bogus articles'. That's a violation of WP:POINT, vandalism, it lowers Misplaced Pages's respectability, and I can't think of any excuse for it from an editor who should know better. I back up Zoe's actions, though perhaps not an indefinite block at least 2 weeks would have been good enough. Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 02:39, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually, i think the length of the ban is irrelevant. This isn't about punishment and sentence, it is about preventing future damage to the project. I have posted on his talk page demanding that he 1) identifies all his vandalism 2) indicates he understands his error and will behave in future. If those conditions are met, and met soon, then I'd let him be, at least unless he does it again. If they are not met, then we don't want him on wikipedia, and he should be banned either by admin consensus or ArbCom, it makes not odds. If you block him for a set time right now what will it acheive? If he reforms then it will be unneccessary and if he doesn't, then it won't be long enough. --Doc 02:55, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I concur 100% with Doc. Raul654 02:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I concur 100% with Raul654. Honestly: if someone wilfully posts vandal articles we just don't need them around — and we don't need to clutter the ArbCom's time having them tell us that. If he reforms, fine. If he doesn't, get rid of him. -Splash 03:03, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

In the case of an editor who is making a mix of good and bad contributions, though, I think the case is more complex - I'm uncertain, at least, that were I an arbitrator I would go for a year ban, an article creation prohibition, an accuracy parole, or what. I certainly don't think there's community consensus for an out and out ban here. Phil Sandifer 03:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Doc as well. I don't think a remedy like Snowspinner proproses is appropriate, because there's a very simple solution: An apology, indentification of the aricles, and a promise that it won't happen again, ever. Simple as that.--Sean|Black 06:24, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I was assuming a failure of that process. Phil Sandifer 19:22, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

If the process fails, and he makes no reply in the next (say) 48 hours, I still see no need for a 'sentence' whether timed or otherwise. The solution is simple: we block him until he indicates that he will behave and comply. The length of the block is then in his hands not ours. We don't need to say whether it is infinite, for a year or for another 24 hours, it is simply until he indicates a willingness to contrbute properly. Refer it to Arbcom if you will, but IMHO Arbcom is for judging and pronouncing on difficult or controvertial cases - there is no difficulty here, and no judgement to be made - either he is going to comply or he is not - up to him.--Doc 20:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Um ... I'm entirely uncomfortable with the idea that you can permablock someone who makes good articles just because they won't tell you where they put their alleged nihilartikels - David Gerard 21:08, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not. There are plenty of other people who can make good articles. Misplaced Pages does not need editors who deliberately sneak in misinformation. I'd be happy if he comes clean, fixes his errors, and promises not to do it again. Otherwise, forget it. — Knowledge Seeker দ 21:25, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Read his comment again - I don't think he's saying he's uncomfortable with the idea of a permablock being used here. I think his objection (And mine) is the idea that you, where you is a given admin, can do that. Process and all. Phil Sandifer 21:27, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Got it. That's not the interpretation I got. Even so, if it's discussed on the administrators' noticeboard with a large number of administrators supporting it, that makes it not be a lone administrator acting capriciously. — Knowledge Seeker দ 21:36, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Wow, this is politics in action, I'm impressed. I've flagged my "nihilartikles" - Javanais and Hot Puppies, plus found another one - Spyguard. Although, I quite fancy being the subject of an ArbCom case, so if you wanna put me up for ArbCom, I'd be happy with it. And anyway, in the mean time I'll get back to doing good editting (although 1 in 100 of these edits will probably be cheeky.) --User:Wonderfool/sig 22:56, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Speedied. Back to work now.. Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 23:16, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, well I was against punishment but Wonderfool's last remarks just take the biscuit. That hardly fills me with confidence that he's understood the seriousness of the breach of trust in adding vandalism to wp. All I wanted was 'sorry, I'll not do it again' but instead we are promised more spurious edits. Snowspinner, as far as I'm concerned, Arbcom can have him, if you want to do the paper work. I'm through with him. --Doc 23:24, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree - a contributor 1% of whose contributions are unreliable is worse than useless. I say give him 48 hours to unambiguously undertake not to continue inserting hoaxes into Misplaced Pages, and if he fails to do so then ban him permanently without wasting any further time on discussion. Then go through everything he's ever edited to make sure whether they're accurate or not. -- Arwel (talk) 00:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Heartily agree with Arwel and Doc. — Dan | Talk 00:08, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I can't imagine why after the shitthrowing that went on he might be inclined to make a snarky comment like that. If you want to arbcom him, arbcom him. If you want to unilaterally ban him and salt the earth, expect me to unblock him. Phil Sandifer 00:16, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

How can you call it unilateral when so many people have supported and so many have been defending him only to change their minds? A community ban takes even more consideration than an arbcom ban, it's not even close to unilateral. Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 00:20, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Community bans are for when nobody would seriously argue that there's a reason to have the user around. Anything other than that is an admin acting unilaterally. There may be admins who agree with them, but in the face of both policy and spoken opposition here, any admin who bans Wonderfool is speaking for themselves, not for the community. Phil Sandifer 00:24, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I was just about to say you're right, he can't be community banned. I just thought unilatteraly was misused there. Who wants to do the arbcom-ness? Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 00:28, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Not me, at least. Phil Sandifer 00:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Recommend Wonderfool should be sent to bed without his cookie. Permabanning him is unbelievably harsh. Edit well, Wonderfool. FreplySpang (talk) 00:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

So you view deliberate vandalism from registered users as some kind of entertaining pastime worth making crass jokes about? -Splash 00:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Cookies are crass? Phil Sandifer 00:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Jokes about them in relation to vandalism (and incivility) are. -Splash 00:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Considering this diff indicates that he is still unrepentant about his vandalism. I'm blocking him for 48 hours to consider his position. --GraemeL 00:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

wonderfool cont.

Firstly, please can we stop the cookie talk. When some people are genuine concerned about a user's conduct, by all means say you think they may be over-reacting, but dismissing their concerns with trivial humour is extreemly patronising! It adds nothing to the debate and just gets folk's backs up.

To return to the substantive point, at no time have I suggested that Wonderfool be banned, much less that I or any admin should do so unilaterally. I suggested that we might agree a conditional block, with the perfectly reasonable demand that he agrees that he should adhere to basic policy in future (i.e. no more vandalism). His last contribution (above) effectively promised more disruption, and tht is in itself blockable. Arbitration committies are for arbitrating (and there is no inter-user dispute here). As I say, Snowspinner can refer this to Arbcom if he wants - but to insist that admins can't use common sense and consensus to protect wp against an unretracted threat of vandalism is bureaucracy, and smacks of a desire to keep all the power in one place. Arbcom have enough to do. --Doc 01:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I doubt you'd get anywhere banning him, blocking him, or making agreements with him. He's a little...odd. He was also an admin on Wiktionary until he got indef blocked for recreational vandalism. *SHRUG*. It doesn't take much to make a sockpuppet to edit with, so bans are only really useful for prevention. And arbcom? I doubt they'd accept the case at this point. --Phroziac _. o º 01:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I must say that I am surprised that the cookie talk was so offensive, but I accept that it was, and I apologize for my mishandling of the tone of the conversation. I do think that people are over-reacting here, to an extent that got my back pretty far up too. Many of the positions taken above are quite rigid, which disturbs me. I believe that using common sense would not lead to blocking Wonderfool. Maybe watching his edits for a while, maybe talking with him about it, but if his edits are mostly good he should be mostly welcome. FreplySpang (talk) 02:01, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

And this , after the comments above, doesn't trouble you? --Doc 02:06, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

It certainly troubles me. He hasn't promised to stop yet. Perhaps an RfC could do the trick? Really though, I don't know.--Sean|Black 02:16, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Oddly enough, not very much. I'm sorry to see Phroziac's note about his history on Wiktionary, and I hope that he chooses to continue to make positive edits here. But right now, I think it's an inflamed situation, and my preference is to let it calm down a bit rather than inflame it further. I'm quite sure that people will be monitoring his edits for the next several days. If he starts a pattern of negative edits, then blocking him is appropriate. But I am opposed to punitively blocking him at the moment. FreplySpang (talk) 02:17, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee Order

By emergency order of the Arbitration Committee, enacted 04:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC), Wonderfool (talk · contribs), having admitted to creating several nihilartikels, at least one of which has not yet been identified to the community, is hereby banned from editing Misplaced Pages until such time as he identifies all undiscovered nihilartikels to the community, and further until he apologizes to the Misplaced Pages community for perpetrating a fraud upon the community.

For the Arbitration Committee, Kelly Martin (talk) 04:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• Aye - David Gerard 09:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
• Aye. Raul654 09:06, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
• This all occurred while I was happily snoozing (wow, there is a disadvantage to living in LA!), but I heartily endorse it nonetheless. ➥the Epopt 14:59, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
• Aye. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:59, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
• Aye. Jayjg 15:21, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
• Aye. (Belatedly.) James F. (talk) 20:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
• Aye. Neutrality 01:44, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, he shall not get any cookies until 2006. (yeah, the cookie meme is starting to get old...) Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 04:40, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

No cookies? That's too harsh of a punishment. I shall not accept that until a member of the ArbCom sanctions it. :P Titoxd 05:02, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

While I find it somewhat puzzling that the arbcom issued this ruling in a manner that does not seem consistent with arbitration policy, it seems to me preferable to the wheel war that was developing, and a basically reasonable ruling. I hope Wonderfool will take the opportunity to fess up to the last nihilartikel. Phil Sandifer 05:02, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I think it's harsh but not unnecessarily so. He gets the block lifted as soon as he owns up to the last hoax—thus undoing the damage to the content of the project caused by this action—and apologizes, thus acknowledging the damage to the community. (Though personally I think AC intervention wasn't necessary; this could have come by community consensus.) As for the cookies... well, no one wants any of mine, anyhow, unless I've bought them from the store. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 05:29, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

It's my opinion that the wheel war that was already starting to brew would have continued, if not escalated, if we had not stepped in. It's clear that there is not community consensus to ban him, although it might have developed after a week or two of block/unblock games, which are bad for Misplaced Pages. Our action avoids a wheel war, and therefore was clearly something had to be done. This is precisely the sort of situation where the Arbitration Committee has no choice but to act. At least, according to my philosophy of what the ArbCom is. Kelly Martin (talk) 05:35, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

And that's why we need you to get elected agan. :) Phil Sandifer 06:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• Where's the record of the ArbCom coming to this decision? I've looked here and here and even here out of desperation. I mean, this was discussed somewhere that there is a record, correct? - brenneman 06:03, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, I initiated discussion of this topic on our mailing list when I saw what was happening. Raul654 06:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
  • How about a link to the discusion then? - brenneman 06:15, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
    • All the discussion took place either on the private ArbCom mailing list or via various forms of instant messaging. (I'm sure that this will just act as more proof that ArbCom is just a big-ass cabal trying to run everything.) Kelly Martin (talk) 06:37, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
  • I got your record right here. ;-) --MarkSweep (call me collect) 06:40, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Sorry if I don't think that's funny. Dammit, ok that was funny, and totally sucked me in as well. But it's still not funny, if you know what I mean.
      brenneman 06:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
      • All right, I'll try to respond more specifically to your question (but this is about as much information as you are going to get). At 7:30 PM EST yesterday (Sunday), I posted a comment to the arbcom mailing list describing the situation, including the on-going wheel war. Following up on that email, 4 other arbitrators and one former arbitrator expressed extreme disapproval of wonderfool's actions, and the emergency decision was hammered out. Raul654 06:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
      • Ok, no further information available... you don't see a problem with that? It's not ok for a full open and accountable discussion here to set up a block-until-apologises, but a group that apparently will-not-be-named can? Please don't give me TINC, it's not about that. It's about the fact that if decisions are going to be made, they should withstand the light of day. Saying things like "four other arbitrators" only makes it worse. - brenneman 07:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

From what we know of the activity level of various arbcom members it isn't hard to guess who is involved. If you look a the disscussion here a solid block of six individuals favoring a block is enough to establish a fairly solid consensus.Geni 07:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Let me add my name to support of this move (which was hammered out while I was asleep). I withdraw my qualms above about this after someone pointed out that it was Wonderfool who went rogue admin on Wiktionary. That blows the benefit of the doubt IMO.

I appreciate Aaron's qualms, but the wheel war is probably more damaging than Wonderfool's actions and the AC (in its role as an extension of Jimbo) is the body with the power to resolve such situations. Mostly the admins get along fine with just shouting at each other, but actual block wars are a really bad idea (which is why people tend to hold off on them) and need fast resolution - David Gerard 08:17, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and the way it worked was: note to AC mailing list, every response being "yep, Wonderfool is acting stupidly badly", notes that the block war needs to be stopped, and the emergency resolution. That's the whole story - David Gerard 08:19, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

When making these kinds of announcements, is it possible for all the arbitrators who agree with the statement to sign them (and if anyone opposes, for them to say that too)? Talrias (t | e | c) 08:30, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Good idea. I've added my name and suggested the others do so too. (It's 9am UTC, so the US arbs are probably asleep right now) - David Gerard 08:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Guess I came to this late, but, urgh... Jarlaxle was banned from all Wikimedia projects, but the guy who deleted Wiktionary's main page, among other important pages, and had to be taken down by a developer, is still around...? Just thinking out loud, you know, but... Um? Dmcdevit·t 09:42, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• Thanks David, that's all that it took to make me happy with regards to accountabilty. Why I didn't just come out and say that still isn't clear to me...
  brenneman 12:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• Not that I disagree with this action, but it seems to contradict the Misplaced Pages:arbitration policy. Since Misplaced Pages not a bureaucracy, I believe that simply means the policy needs to be updated a bit to reflect this. I've changed it for now, but this may need some copyediting if people are concerned about the exact wording. Radiant_>|< 10:07, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
  • And I've rolled it back. Cheers. Kelly Martin (talk) 12:21, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Using the vandal rollback, even. Might I ask why? Radiant_>|< 15:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
      • A one-time application of IAR to accomplish a clearly necessary action does not justify a change to Arbitration policy. It is not even clear that the community has the right to change Arbitration policy, and certainly you do not have the right to do so without discussion. WP:BOLD does not apply to policy articles, especially not to ones like the Arbitation policy, which is special even amongst policy articles. Kelly Martin (talk) 16:11, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I personally think the Arbitrators probably cut this one right, even if it did involve some IAR on Arb policy. (Is it precedented, out of interest?) Any further nihiledits are prevented until the immediate problem is fixed and that can be basically immediately if Wonderfool gets his act together. If he won't fix it, then there is no particular reason to assume any good faith with his would-be edits. It also doesn't (I presume) preclude full Arbitration, with this order among the evidence, if such becomes necessary, although Dmcdevit raises a pertinent point. -Splash 13:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

the closest president I can think of would be when ed poor was ordered to reverse some deadminships he carried out

What's the fuss about here? Guy admits to making undisclosed hoaxes, Committee demands that he disclose all hoaxes, forbids him from further editing until he does so. Why should this be even remotely problematic? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 16:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe Guy is following the ArbComm's precedent of ignoring ArbComm rulings. (SEWilco 16:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC))

The Arbcom ruling is welcome and sensible: an editor who has both vandalised an threatended to do so again is (non-punitively) suspended, until he agrees to abide by basic wp policies and play nice. There is no sentence, since the block will be lifted as soon as he indicates a willingness to comply. (Indeed, I flatter myself that it is the same common-sense remedy that I proposed yesterday). The only issue that remains unsettled is: is it acceptable for a consensus of admins to impose such non-punative temporary suspensions in future (a common-sense extention of vandal/disruption blocking) - or do all such cases have to be refered to Arbcom (as Snowspinner has contented)? --Doc 17:02, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

As I see it, the reason the ArbCom stepped in is not so much because admins don't have the authority to deal with problems like this, but rather because he had been blocked, unblock, and reblocked, which indicates a wheel war. Wheel wars are bad, and our intervention was as much to stop the wheel war as to deal with the underlying problem. Kelly Martin (talk) 19:38, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Folks, this is a clear-cut case of WP:IAR being applied correctly. The ArbCom mailing list is private for a reason, that they need to be able to express their minds clearly in order to actually come to an agreement to something. It is common sense. Show's over. Titoxd 17:20, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Well...now it gets even more interesting, as shown below. If his nihilartikels are not nihil, then you can't block him until he fesses up. Blocking for disruption may be in order, but this Order is now null, as far as I can see. Guettarda 17:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm happy to interpret it as still effective, with Wonderfool remaining blocked until he confesses to whatever hoax articles he's posted, though those below may not be among them—or that he confesses he hasn't posted any; either way. If he is merely playing games with us, that's not acceptable, either, and the apology is still needed; I take a very dim view of such games within the article namespace. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 19:21, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I think it's a mistake to block him, regardless of his past, for the following combined reasons:

• He has shown a great interest in Misplaced Pages, and that he has the free time necessary to contribute significantly to the project.
• He has shown an interest in creating fake articles and using sockpuppets.
• Every single moment that he spends editing under his username is a moment that we can monitor.
• Every single moment that he spends editing under his username is a moment that he can't spend editing through a hidden/anonymous name.
• Every single moment that he spends editing through one of the easily-available subversive methods is a moment that we can not monitor. (He will be able to easily edit through these means regardless of the block)
• Blocking always makes the blockee more hostile.
• The only purpose to such a block can be to send a message to the community that we do not tolerate such action.

These things, combined, tell me that it would be bad to block. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-28 19:37

We should make it clear we don't tolerate such action. A knowledgeable editor, knowing the consequences, who deliberately jerks around the entire community in this manner is doing something seriously wrong. If he doesn't change his tune and apologize, there should be consequences. Probably the ArbCom should hold a full review of this case, if he doesn't fully reveal whatever he's done and apologize in the near future. -- SCZenz 21:35, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Those arguments have some teeth - but if followed to their conclusion, we'd never block a logged-in vandal account. We should even unblock WOW, without precondition. --Doc 21:25, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

We can make exceptions for significant contributors like Wonderfool. It's not like blocking him will remove his motivation to edit here, or stop him from editing here. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-28 21:35

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Subtlely-incorrect information mixed in with good edits is the hardest to detect, most time-consuming vandalism to clean up. Your claim that we should tolerate his vandalism because he mixes it in with good edits is absurd. This is the kind of thing that merits the harshest punishments. Raul654 00:12, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

It'll just create an active, 100% negative contributor who cannot be tracked at all, versus the current scenario of an active, <100% negative contributor who can be tracked sometimes. I don't know which is better. -- BRIAN0918  01:00, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

You're saying that it's possible that we shouldn't do anything, because if he decides to be a full-time vandal it'll take work stop him? I don't think that makes much sense. Of course it'll take work to stop full-time vandalism, maybe even more than dealing with the current part-time vandalism. But vandals have no place in Misplaced Pages, and tolerating them as long as they don't do it too often will only make things worse. -- SCZenz 01:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not saying tolerate it. I would rather find some alternative, such as trying to encourage him through community involvement to not do this sort of thing. Maybe get him a mentor or something. Banning outright doesn't seem like the proper solution for a significant contributor. At least, this is what I have seen when Arbcom deals with folks like Everyking. They tolerate his repeated violations because he does great work otherwise. -- BRIAN0918  01:37, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree. He has only to repudiate his behavior and apologize to make a ban completely unnecessary. But he knows what he's doing, and is choosing to do it; without him deciding to change his course, I don't see how a mentor or polite requests will change anything. -- SCZenz 01:41, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Wonderfool fooled the community again -- Hot Puppies is NOT FAKE

I don't know how this happened, but it appears that Wonderfool pulled another fast one on us. He simply stated that Hot Puppies was fake (further up on this page), and somehow it was accepted as truth. That article is completely verifiable using the BBC website in the external links section. It is completely real. They are a Welsh band. I haven't checked his other claimed nihilartikels, but this one is absolutely not. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-28 16:56

Look at Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Hot_Puppies. Wonderfool didn't say it was fake; he said he didn't think they were notable when he created the page. Not letting his pages go through the AfD process, so a little investigation and debate could happen, was an overreaction. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:29, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Nihilartikel has a very clear definition. It means the article is fake. The content is made-up. Whether or not that's the definition Wonderfool uses, it's the definition everyone thought he was using. Also, Wonderfool's {{db}} rationale was "author admits hoax". If this doesn't imply "fake", I don't know what does. Maybe he purposely created possibly non-notable articles as a cover, so that he could later say that he did not know what "nihilartikel" meant, but his usage of "hoax" here should clear that up: he was trying to have us believe he made fake articles. See also his VFD for Javanais, where he says, "I apparently made this a long time ago. And, here, I don't think it's a real thing." And, immediately above, he calls these 3 articles "nihilartikels". — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-28 17:34

If I were to assume good faith here (I'm not sure I entirely can, but I'll give it a try), Wonderfool, under pressure to mark his nihils as such, took a quick pass through his changes, and thought "hmm, I vaguely recall something dodgy about this Hot Puppies one... better mark it as {{db|hoax}}." An hour-and-a-half later, he had time to check it out a little more, realized it wasn't a proper nihil, and changed it from {{db}} to {{afd}}. What the deal is with Javanais, and how it could fit into such a good-faith narrative, I'm not sure. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Why would he say that of his 4 nihilartikels, 2 had not yet been deleted as of November 25 2005?? Did he suddenly forget what 2 those were?? It seems undeniable that he was having us believe they were fake. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-28 17:57

There's no denying that he enjoys jerking our chains. I don't know what the appropriate remedy is for that. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I think he threw some of his old borderline-notables at us to keep his true nihilartikels in hiding. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-28 18:19

• In that case I support this block. Calling non-nihil articles, nihil to get out of a block and admitting to creating such articles in the first place (when it's not April Fool's day) is disruptive and grounds for blocking perhaps even banning. Purposely inserting fake information in Misplaced Pages shouldn't be allowed period. No matter who is doing it. I would block Jimbo if he were to start a vandalism spree. - Mgm| 10:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Javanais is NOT FAKE EITHER -- c'mon people!

Javanais is exactly verifiable using OED. Didn't anyone bother to check whether he was telling the truth this time? — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-28 17:03

I've copyeditted that one, and it's definitely not a nihil. violet/riga (t) 17:24, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Spyguard also real

I checked, and that's a real product as well. I've undeleted all three of these and tagged as disputed while we sort this out. Phil Sandifer 17:11, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• You mean Spyguard? — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-28 17:15
  • Yeah. It's a product for glass. Give me a break. :) Phil Sandifer 17:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
• This one may be non-notable, but it is a real product. violet/riga (t) 17:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
  • I Removed the reference to it containing platinum, which I couldn't verify from the companies information material. Everything else seems to check out, so I removed the disputed tag. --GraemeL 17:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Another Wonderfool alias

Please note that Expurgator (talk · contribs) has adopted User:Wonderfool's talk page and created Misplaced Pages:Nihilartikels (a guide on "how to write a believable nihilartikel"). That, and this edit by Newnoise (talk · contribs) (an admitted alias) and this edit by Expurgator, are strong indications that this is another alias. Uncle G 16:48, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

• Confirmed by CheckUser. Kelly Martin (talk) 16:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
  • ...and indef blocked. Speedy the 'article' since it's from a banned user? -Splash

Please also read Misplaced Pages:Wild goose chases, by the same author. It is a shame that this situation is as it is. I'm in the process of reviewing Expurgator's contributions for the last couple of days, and most of them so far have been helpful backlog clearance. Uncle G 17:29, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore: Please see this edit. Uncle G 00:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Davenbelle blocked

states that Fadix, Karl Meier, and Davenbelle are reminded to lay off of Cool Cat or else face penalties. Fadix has backed off completely, Karl Meier has to some extent, but Davenbelle has continued, well, (wiki)stalking Cool Cat. He has only been blocked for 24 hours, and I recommend longer blocks if he doesn't lay off. It's a big wiki, and the two should be able to keep their distance. He (as well as Karl Meier) even showed up to oppose CC's RFA. So, in short, 24 hours this time, longer next time. Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 09:50, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

See also the following from my talk page: (posted here by Davenbelle 03:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC))

== Blocked as per the arbcom decision ==

It is of my opinion that you have been further hounding Cool Cat. You've come to AfD's he's been on and voted opposite him (after placing that he did that to you in your evidence against him), you've basically been wikistalking him, and you haven't stepped back (whereas Fadix, and to some extent Karl Meier have). You've been blocked for 24 hours. I'd like to remind you that wiki has millions of pages, Cool Cat isn't on all of them. Redwolf24 09:46, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

While I don't disagree, note that the Arbitration case itself gives no instructions for the`bringing of penalties; therefore, it's probably a IAR block. Ral315 (talk) 18:41, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I would support using this short block, but absent a parole, I would think a new arbcom case on Davenbelle's conduct would be necessary to make any long term enforcement provisions. Phil Sandifer 19:20, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I know the case specifies nothing in particular. One can be creative though. I can't just ban him from Cool Cat, as that's pretty much what it was before, so blocking comes next. Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 19:41, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

No, it doesn't - the arbcom case specifically says that "future proceedings" would be where penalties would be assessed. Phil Sandifer 19:48, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Ah. Well, this is a short block, and it should do, as filing another case is not necessary. Redwolf24; (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 19:56, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

The AC decision basically tells them to get a frickin' clue and STOP BEING DICKS. Being too dumb not to heed that in the pursuit of their Cool Cat obsession makes a 24 hour block for disruptive obnoxiousness and being a notable dick pretty defensible IMO (as an admin, I wasn't arbitrating on that case) - David Gerard 08:24, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

No personal attacks Also: I don't know why you were not active on the AC case; did you recuse for some reason? — Davenbelle 03:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

It's not, however, a sustainable solution... though maybe Davenbelle will finally learn his lesson here? Phil Sandifer 20:31, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

This was an unjustified block. First off, as others have already pointed out, this block is not "per arbcom". Secondly, I have not been "Misplaced Pages:Wikistalking"→Misplaced Pages:Harassment User:Cool Cat.

You seem to think that I followed User:Cool Cat to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The Kurdistani; it is true that he expressed his opinion there prior to my post. And he also made this snide comment: "Why am I not suprised to see Davenbelle... Gee... --Cool Cat" in order to reinforce the "harassment" interpretation of events (this was posted 13 minutes before you blocked me). However, I had edited the The Kurdistani article prior to its being listed on AFD; User:Cool Cat has never edited the article (and edited no other AFD that day). A more reasonable, and accurate, interpretation of events is that I edited the AFD because The Kurdistani article appeared high on my watchlist and that User:Cool Cat was monitoring my edits and that he actively agitated for this block. Also, I don't believe that I ever claimed that User:Cool Cat followed me to an AFD/VFD/vote page; that's one of his old claims.

Perhaps you looked at the editing on the Ilısu Dam article. Prior to my edit on November 18th, User:Cool Cat had not edited the article in nearly 2 months, yet he edited it many times in response to my editing. His edits are POV (he has a history of POV editing), he removed reasonable edits of mine, ignored my attempts to discuss this on talk:Ilısu Dam and asserted that he'll "start revertiong without reading edits". As he has made quite clear on his mentorship talk page, he wants to use the ArbCom counsel about "hounding" him to effectively ban me (and Karl Meier) from the very articles that he has continued his POV editing on.

After your block, User:Cool Cat went after Karl Meier on Kurdistan. Tony Sidaway, his mentor, has since stated that User:Cool Cat should not aggressive revert Karl Meier, Davenbelle or Fadix, in any context, on any article. User:Cool Cat went so far as to revert Karl over a blank line.

And why on earth should I refrain from posting an opinion on RFAs re User: Cool Cat? What's next? Misplaced Pages:Wikidisenfranchisment?

This is not about harassment, it is about User:Cool Cat seeking to demonize his opponents and establish ownership of articles that he wishes to express a certain POV.

— Davenbelle 03:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, here's an idea: Forget about Cool Cat. Pretend he doesn't exist. You two are not going to get along, so just ignore each other.--Sean|Black 03:45, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Sean's right. Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 03:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

And I should just leave any article he reverts me on? Yeah, right. You should read his mentorship talk page. And thanks for ignoring most of what I wrote. — Davenbelle 04:11, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

There's bad behavior on both Cool Cat's part and on yours here. I've also recently blocked Cool Cat and Karl Meier because of bickering and edit warring.

How difficult is it for your to ignore him? Evidently far, far too difficult. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 06:50, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

It's rather hard to ignore him when he simply reverts me on articles you allow him to "police". Remember, the ArbCom did vote 6-1 (Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek/Proposed decision#Alternative proposal) to prohibit him "from editing any articles related or referring to Turks, Kurds, or Armenians for a period of 3 months" — this was only omitted from the final decision because they decided to entrust him to your mentorship. He has obviously continued his POV editing of these articles while under your "protection". — Davenbelle 07:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

There is nothing in the ArbCom's decision that indicated that I or Davenbelle should not edit specific articles. The block against Davenbelle for voting against a deletion of a page that he was editing anyway, doesn't make any sense. It is Cool Cat that is following me and Davenbelle around now, and reverting articles that he haven't touched for months, only hours after that Davenbelle made a reasonable edit to it. Apparently it's too difficult for Cool Cat to leave us alone, and end this conflict. -- Karl Meier 09:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Wujiangwanlida

User page is an advert. Do we have a usual response? -- Rick Block (talk) 02:07, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Either post it at WP:MFD, or stretch CSD A3 a little bit and delete it as a page that only attempts to communicate with their subjects. Titoxd 02:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I've left a message on the talk page asking them to change the user page content. If nobody changes it in a few days, I'll get a little pushier. -- Rick Block (talk) 02:26, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I've been a bit bold and deleted the page. Undo if necessary, but I think I will go with Titoxd's suggestion. I also left a note on that user page. --HappyCamper 04:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

• People deserve the right to do a little bit of advertising on their userpage if they're good contributors. This user simply did one edit and then created a userpage for advert purposes. Misplaced Pages is not a free webhost. Deleting it was a good call. - Mgm| 11:00, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Semi-Protection

Hey there fellow admins, users, editors of all levels: a couple of users, fed up with the rampant vandalism of George W. Bush (no not the man, the article), have come together to try and find a middleground between Protection and open editing. If you'd like to weigh in at Misplaced Pages:Semi-protection policy, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mysekurity 12:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

• fed up with the rampant vandalism of George W. Bush (no not the man, the article). I glad you clarified that. --Calton | Talk 23:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

• No problem. I'm always glad to assist ;) -Mysekurity 20:31, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Removing information at subject's request

See Francis J. Beckwith (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views); Ambi (talk · contribs) has apparently been in contact with Professor Beckwith who wants mention of the fact that he is a member of the intelligent design movement removed from the article. This, despite Beckwith being a fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, author of a book on the subject and has spoken publicly on the issue.

I believe this has wider implications for the accuracy and so is posted here (imagine removing criticism at the subjects request, let alone a simple mention of his documented interests). I think Ambi's removal is misguided, but what do other's think? — Dunc|☺ 15:49, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

It seems to me that his support for intelligent design is notable and verified, and thus encyclopedic. I am, however, generally sympathetic to the removal of non-encyclopedic or marginally relevent information - things like the place of employment of webcartoonists and band members, which are perhaps verifiable, but not hugely important. We shouldn't intrude on privacy, nor should we whitewash things. This seems to me a clear case of the latter, but I wouldn't draw a general line against removing things on the subject's request either. Phil Sandifer 15:55, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

That's just it. We shouldn't remove encyclopedic info, because this is an encyclopedia. We should remove non-encyclopedic andor irrelevant information, again because this is an encyclopedia. The subject shouldn't have any influence on this judgement.

Although, I'm worried about the principle of ever removing something at the subject's request, I basically agree with Phil. Any idea why he wants this information removed? It seems like if he wanted to seperate himself from the intellegent design movement the first step might be to resign said post. --best, kevin _└/ _TALK 16:50, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Kevin and Phil - it makes sense to consider requests for the removal of information on privacy grounds, but removing verifiable information simply on the grounds that the subject of the article doesn't like it is a very bad idea, IMO. Guettarda 17:15, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

If it's "private" it probably isn't relevant. This clearly is. Superm401 | Talk 23:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

On the topic of granting spin control to the subject of a biographical article, I have only two words:

Lori Bazzill

That's all, I must leave quickly and change IP numbers before I get blocked. I encourage you to exercise dilligence. Good day, gentlemen. --anonymous forever 16:17, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

• It's encyclopedic, verifiable and relevant to his current post. I see no valid reason to delete said information. - Mgm| 11:06, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

User name spam?

Am I the only one who finds this odd??--Aolanonawanabe 02:22, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

• By this I of course mean the 30 or so new users who registered within 1 to 2 seconds of each other, essentially covering about half of the 50 most recent edits--Aolanonawanabe 02:44, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't see anything matching that description in the user creation log around the time you were looking. silsor 03:16, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I came across something odd a while ago - right after the creation of User:HSUB EGROEG KCUF --HappyCamper 03:22, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Looking at the user creation log for that time, the spacing of user account creations is not statistically unusual. silsor 03:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

No, but it did cover the entire page, and did cause server lag, both of which are probably unusual--Aolanonawanabe 03:34, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Look at the user creation log, and then at recent changes. The most users created in the same minute around the time you're talking about is something like half a dozen. I don't see how this can cover recent changes, which moves considerably faster. Maybe there was a server hiccup that caused only user creations to be displayed. silsor 04:01, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Lots of users ae created per minute. However many do not ever make edits. I think this is a problem. Unused accouts should be deleted (if created and never used for lets say a month). Surely people should be making at least one edit.... If not I do not think they need an account. --Cool Cat 20:41, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

What if they just want to read without getting messages from people vandalizing on their IP? Broken S 20:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

There's a perfectly valid reason to create an account even if you never edit: having an account lets you change the display preferences. For example, if you want dates displayed in a specific way, or if you want the "classic" skin, you need an account. --Carnildo 00:09, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Or perhaps you'd like to have a watchlist, or e-mail other users. — Knowledge Seeker দ 00:32, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

User:StabRule

What do you think? WP:U vio? Sounds fairly violent, but just wanted to check. Check his talk page too, he's a trouble maker as well. karmafist 03:44, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh yes. SUCH a troublemaker. Just ban me already - as I see that's everyone's goal. Stab Rule is an pulp indie reference. StabRule 04:14, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think the name is a problem, from what I see in WP:U. StabRule, you might want to read WP:TINC, though. -- SCZenz 04:21, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

"StabRule" is not a blockable username. TacoDeposit 04:34, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

It's a borderline since WP:U says the following... This includes, but is not limited to... Names which refer to violent real world actions. I've never heard of the "Stab Rule", but you never know. Since it was borderline, I thought i'd check here first. However,due to that WP:CIVIL vio(looks like another one) along with some issues he had with misbehavior on afd the other day, i'm going to give him a 6 hour block now. karmafist 05:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Child. StabRule 21:23, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Please refrain from incivilty. Thanks.--Sean|Black 22:17, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

This, from a user whose name is a portmanteau of fist! Andy Mabbett 20:28, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

More nihilartikels

See the deleted entries at User:David.Monniaux/hoax/The blue cow experiment for details. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-30 11:52

• No such page. Is there somewhere else I should be looking? -- Jmabel | Talk 05:07, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Kurdistan

This page needs attention, it is currently a blog of every referance to "Kurdistan". Article is in horrible condition and I feel attention by fellow wikipedians is necesarry. While I have POV on the topic, I also have a desier to make it something useful.

Things I have done so far:

1. I introduced the POV and Cleanup templates to the article
2. I moved several sections to talk (which need to be seperate articles or refined and reintroduced back to the article)
   • Article is intended to describe a cultural region so sections removed really do not expand that.

--Cool Cat 16:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Since administrators have no special editorial authority, content issues like this probably don't belong here. This might be the appropriate topic of an article RFC. --Ryan Delaney 20:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

True but User:Karl Meier is interfereing with my edit experience and his comments on the discussion page bricking me should be "enforced". Although that is one of the more famous cases, you may want to refer to: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek.

The page requires attention and perhaps a protection in the time being matters will be discussed. --Cool Cat 20:30, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Genghis Khan

I am relatively a newbie and am hesitant to take this one on myself, so I'd appreciate it if someone with more experience would & I'll just follow along this time and learn:

Looks like we have a deliberate & determined vandal at Genghis Khan -- IP 216.124.166.2 -- you'll see several examples of his work in the history following "Revision as of 21:48, 29 November 2005", all of them reverted by various folks, but also somewhere along the way the entire core of this very good & culturally-significant (Mongolia...) article got dumped and yes we do suspect the dumping was him too.

I'll revert to that revision and re-do my own edits, and try to fold in those of the others too if I can. But I'm not anxious to undertake that if our vandal just is going to cruise back in and mess it up. So how to handle it? Doesn't look like a "first give him a warning" necessity, to me.

--Kessler 21:06, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks like it was just that one day in a relatively short period of time and that's the only edits the IP has made, so lets assume good faith for now. I've left a message on their talk page. .:.Jareth.:. 21:21, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

OK thanks but would you pls look at my own copyedit of "23:18, 29 November 2005"? We're missing the entire middle of the article, since then, and it may have been something I did in my big edit altho I can't spot it myself. Appreciate your doing so for my own future reference... I'll revert the article to the prior edit, "21:48, 29 November 2005", and then leave it alone for a while, maybe try to replace the later edits done by others tho.

--Kessler 21:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Jimmy Wales

Can someone permanently delete the versions of this article that contain his home address. That is really below the belt. Trödel|talk 00:31, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I tried deleting it and doing a selective restore (without the two edits by Zondor which were undesirable), but the page history seems to have gone missing. Can someone fix it for me please, and maybe tell me what I did wrong?-gadfium 01:15, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

From what I can see, you deleted them, but there was another revision that featured them, so they stayed. Is that right?--Sean|Black 01:21, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I've gotten rid of them. I hope I did that right.--Sean|Black 01:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Did I do the right thing on this AfD?

I've started to work on closing out the mind bogglingly ugly Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of modern day dictators. My first step was to distill the whole discussion down to two lists of people, those expressing opinions in either the keep or delete camp. I figured I would give people about a day to correct any mistakes I may have made in the distilation process, then I would decide what to do. Was this a good way to handle it? I suspect whatever I end up deciding, there will be people demanding my head. --RoySmith 04:06, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Ah, so you're a masochist. ;) I have a bad feeling that no matter how this AfD is closed, it's going to end up at Deletion review. I voted in the AfD so it's pretty obvious which way I'd like to see this go. I think you've done just fine so far. Eventually you will need to examine the reason provided with each vote and see if one side makes a more persuasive argument than its raw vote count shows. Good luck! Carbonite | Talk 04:16, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Handling of the Adolf Hitler situation

I would like an experienced admin or two to look at the Adolf Hitler situation and see if you think I am handling this appropriately, because I am growing a little less confident about it. If I am, I still would appreciate suggestions. --Nlu 06:32, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, nobody responded to this when I posted it yesterday. I still would like suggestions/opinions on this. PLEASE! --Nlu 04:54, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

As far as I can see, you're doing a fine job. If you feel that you need assistance, however, I'm always willing to help. Granted, I'm newly mopped myself, but hey.--Sean|Black 05:01, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

What I am feeling stuck about now is:

1. I will have to unprotect the page sometime. The page simply can't be protected forever.
2. "ROHA" has shown no willingness to comply with Misplaced Pages regulations.
3. He roves from IP to IP, and therefore 3RR blocks will be ineffective.
4. If I order him to stop reverting, he won't listen (and likely won't even respond).
5. His statement, again, comes down to "unprotect the page so I can replace the image."

Any thoughts on what to do next about this mess would be appreciated. This isn't the Bogdanov Affair, but it's getting there, it seems, since here, as was the case there, you have a rogue user who demands that others comply with his ways and refuses to abide by, inter alia, 3RR. --Nlu 05:11, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Usually if you keep it protected for a day, and then unprotect, the problem stops; if the problem returns, protect it again for a day. Usually vandals and POV-pushers get tired. Usually... LOL. Antandrus (talk) 06:01, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Already did that once; when it was unprotected, the person came back with a vengeance, forcing me to reprotect it. Since he appears to come on during the German daytime, I am considering unprotecting in the morning my own time (German night time). But I can just imagine the situation repeating itself. :-( --Nlu 06:03, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Well when someone makes it obvious that they are the same returning user that was blocked, you can just apply the same block to the new IP, and extend it each time they repeat the vandalism as long as they are not shared IPs. That is useless if someone has enough IP's available, but can slow the vandal down. Blocking 10 or 15 in a row that they try to use can be effective sometimes. - Taxman 15:18, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

This looks like a job for SEMIPROTECT MAN!(r) Am I correct? -Mysekurity 06:16, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Indeed. Semi-protection would be perfect for this page. --Nlu 06:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Hai, semi-protect would fit well. I really should spend more time on ANB. --Cool Cat 20:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

As a very new admin (three days younger than Nlu), I might not have felt confident enough to do what he did, and also I haven't yet fully read all the instructions for blocking range IPs. But I do completely endorse his handling of the situation. I have no special interest in Hitler, but it's on my watchlist as a frequent target of vandalism, and so I was familiar with what was going on. ROHA had been making a nuisance of himself for some time, breaking 3RR, taunting other users, making personal attacks, and removing the photo of Hitler and replacing it with a link to another website – so obviously the alternative photo wasn't readable from the Hitler page. One thing on which I disagree with Nlu is that ROHA seems to be active in the daytime by German time. I'm in Ireland, one hour behind Germany, and I think he seems to work all through the night until late morning or early afternoon. Anyway, although I didn't carry out the block myself, I fully support it, and hope that the disruption will die down now. AnnH 13:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Is it a full moon or something?

What is going on tonight? I'm simultaneously dealing with one Protestant nutter vandalising articles to add in anti-Catholic attacks and turning sentences around to say the exact opposite of what they once said. On other pages a Catholic nutter deleting things that aren't pushing a Catholic POV everyone. Meanwhile George W. Bush is like looney-central with all the vandals. Is there a Vandalise Misplaced Pages Day I don't know about? lol FearÉIREANN\ 05:41, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that this has been the worst twenty-four hours for vandalism my watchlist has seen. Jkelly 05:47, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Strange. I thought it pretty quiet today, except for some Turkey vandal. And I see good old 4.242.*.* is back. Must have been on holiday, I missed them this past week. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Yup. I've been on non-stop RC patrol since I came home from work, and there's been no shortage of pages to revert. Seems to me like a trend, though: every time I come on to RC patrol it seems to me like we're being overrun. Antandrus (talk) 05:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

For the record, it is presently a new moon. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 06:02, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

And, for the record, we don't seem to see Redwolf24 or White Wolf on the patrol tonight. Hmmm... --Nlu 06:05, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

There both wolves, are they? (or was this the at full moon :)) Lectonar 10:30, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

• This does prompt a thought - are some times more-vandalised than others? I mean, I know our traffic fluctuates, and people have anecdotal evidence, but there may be proportionally worse periods. Might be useful to know. hmm. Perhaps if we could sample RecentChanges over a specific timeframe, and note the proportion of "rvv" and rollback-generated edit summaries... Shimgray | talk | 15:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

  Yes, there are dead times and hyper times. These times do not follow a pattern however it is generaly quiet when US and Europe sleaps which is a 2,3 hour time frame (due to time zones). Wikipdia:DefCon was introduced to provide such an insight but user:Cool Cat is having difficulty in completeing the algorithm as he is not sure a good way to "mesure" vandalism level. --Cool Cat 20:39, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

But would that get us anywhere? And you have to take into account that some timeperiods are also more patrolled than others, and that too would be reflected in the number of reversions... but as you said in your summary: it's an idle thought, perhaps prompted by the new moon....:))Lectonar 15:31, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

There's been a lot of discussion on the mailing list about article validation statistics, and what we can do with them - it makes me look at pretty much anything on-wiki and think, hmm, if we analyse that will something interesting fall out of it? You never know... Shimgray | talk | 16:02, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

You may want to mention such incidents at Misplaced Pages talk:Counter Vandalism Unit, although I am sure we are aware of it :) --Cool Cat 20:39, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

One thing that might be interesting (but its original research!) just for fun would be to compare vandalism traffic with full moons. Sounds strange I know, but I know some people who work in jobs who deal with the public (taximen, nurses, people taking calls in call centres, bar workers etc) all of whom say that at full moons they notice that the numbers of people they come across who are (i) aggressive, or (ii) obnoxious, or (iii) hyperactive, or (iv) plain nuts goes through the roof. One London taximan I know refuses to work during full moons. He found that he was attacked four full moons in a row. People in call centres joke about the utter nutters who seem to ring in every full moon. Everyone I discussed it with said how they always thought the claim about full moons affecting people (hence the word lunatic from lunar) was a myth until they started noticing that the numbers of people screaming abuse down phones in call centres would jump by 25%, the numbers of abusive people taximen would face would rocket. Even the police privately say (though they always say "don't quote me on this. They'll think I'm mad but . . . ") that something seems to be different in human behaviour at full moons. It would be fascinating to see if full moons impact on vandalism rates on WP. (And yes I am sceptical but puzzled. I'd love to see a statistical analysis look objectively at numbers.) FearÉIREANN\ 00:32, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

According to this National Geographic article, which quotes Ivan Kelly, a Canadian psychologist at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon, "The studies are not consistent. For every positive study, there is a negative study." One study showed that dog bites double around full moon in England, while another showed that they were not more likely at full moon in Australia. The one in Australia actually showed that there were less dog bites at full moon. The speculation is that people think the full moon has an affect due to selective memories. Something unusual happens, it is full moon, so they must be linked. Evil Monkey - Hello 01:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

To give an example: A friend of mine in a call centre observed how on average every 9th call was "difficult" (obnoxious customer demanding the impossible or looking to blame someone else for their own screw-up). She noticed that on two full moons in a row, from filling out ticks in a box (She is one of these forever curious types) that in a full moon period it became an average of one-in-four. On one occasion, she had eight colleagues who sit together suddenly realised that all eight had screamers on the phone, all with completely ludicrous complaints (one was complaining about a 'redesigned' bill that had actually been redesigned 11 months before. He just never noticed till that morning!) and all getting so obnoxious the people taking the call had to terminate the call. None of the eight had ever had the experience where all of them, simultaneously, had screamers. Yet that day (a full moon) was so bad two of the eight had to go home they were so upset at all the calls. My friend went home to find that her husband, a taxi-driver, had been assaulted at work (he hadn't been before for months), and her children who get on brilliantly normally and never fight were in the middle of a screaming match. That day my editor, normally the calmest man on earth, shocked us all by losing his temper over a minor thing. (He was shocked himself.) It was thoroughly weird. I am really fascinated by the whole idea of this 'full moon' thing. FearÉIREANN\ 01:34, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't read anything into it. It's confirmation bias. Something weird happens during a waxing crescent and you see no connection. Something weird happens during a full moon and you blame the moon. Besides, we're at waxing crescent right now, about half a month away from the full moon. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 02:14, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

New Arbcom Poll

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2005/Straw poll

I made a new poll because the old one didn't really accurately reflect the live options before us. I'm hopeful that a lot of people will be eager to participate in a dialogue about the best way forward.--Jimbo Wales 05:56, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Changes in editing page

For those of you who noticed there's a new "Please make sure your changes do not violate any copyright and are based on verifiable sources." line when you hit edit, please go to MediaWiki_talk:Copyrightwarning for some discussion and to give your opinion. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 22:43, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Abusive edit summaries

Keep an eye out for a numbskull who comes on and posts abusive edit summaries on the George W. Bush page accusing Jimbo and Bush of sex acts, of child abuse, etc. The page is now locked so he might try somewhere else. I've indefinitely blocked two of his sockpuppets. Jimbo and the Arbcom had ruled that he is to be indefinitely blocked. If he comes on anywhere, block him indefinitely instantly. No need for warnings. He has had them already on a range of IPs last night. FearÉIREANN\ 02:26, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I've protected the article, since the same thing has happened (a user posting Jimbo's information in edit summaries). Since I don't have access to IRC right now, can someone ask a developer to remove the offending diffs from the database? Titoxd 02:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Alert about Sea of Japan

Cleric71 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and 203.84.95.84 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) did some nasty stuff this morning. This is in regards to the naming dispute over the Sea of Japan. He tried to move Dispute_over_naming_the_body_of_water_between_Japan_and_the_Koreas to the Koreas and Japan and then he tried to edit one of them. I warned him since the consensus is for it all to go under Sea of Japan naming dispute. So then he went ahead and moved Sea of Japan instead. I blocked him, but...he was also using the IP of 203.84.95.84. I blocked that one for just 24 hours because I am not certain if that is static or no. Just an alert in case he tries another method. Pretty nasty. --Woohookitty 14:21, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Other possible vandalism by Cleric71

Please check for accuracy of other revisions by Cleric71 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). In particular, Cleric71 moved the Ewha Womans University page to The Ewha Women's University. This revision must have been vandalism also, because the university's official name is Ewha Womans University (with the grammatical error in its name), according to its official website .--Endroit 16:19, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Technical question about blocking

If a user is already blocked, and gets blocked again with a different time period, does the new one overwrite the old, or are there now two blocks that run concurrently? Thanks, SCZenz 18:56, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

The shorter period applies. -- Arwel (talk) 19:46, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

The could cause a problem in some cases. A user yesterday posted defamatory information in edit summaries. He had been doing so for days using anonymous IPs. Yesterday he created user accounts to continue posting claims (he accused Jimbo and George Bush, for example, of child sex abuse, as well as addresses and telephone numbers — ours as it happened, but that wasn't immediately apparent, so it could have been much worse —). I blocked him indefinitely, something jimbo and the armcom apparently later ruled should be the standard ban for him. What happens if a user doesn't know this and just bans the user for 24 hours, or worse 15 minutes? What happens if someone is banned by the arbcom for a specific timespan but someone either innocently or deliberately posts a shorter ban? It could cause all sorts of problems. The system should instead inform someone if a ban clashes with an already imposed ban, so that they can contact the original ban imposer and find out why the longer ban was imposed. FearÉIREANN\ 20:04, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd love to see a feature like that: just a notice that a user that I'm attempting to block has already been blocked. Sort of like the "edit conflict" message. Joyous | Talk 20:18, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I've had this problem several times when blocking users. We need this feature. -- ChrisO 23:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Deterring repeated vandalism?

I'm currently trying to rein in the edit warring on Republic of Macedonia and related articles. The subject is, unfortunately, a very controversial one among nationalist Greeks, many of whom are fundamentally opposed to that country using the name "Macedonia" in any way. Consequently the article gets a lot of hit-and-run vandalism from anonymous and new users (see the history).

One of the main targets of the vandalism is the infobox, which lists the country's name for itself and the English translation (i.e. Република Македонија and Republic of Macedonia). Hit-and-run vandals repeatedly change this to things like "Republic of Vardar" and "Republic of Skopje", which I hardly need to say aren't recognised names). So I propose to try to deter vandals by adding a warning above the infobox: "NOTE TO EDITORS: DO NOT MODIFY THE NAMES USED IN THIS BOX WITHOUT FIRST DISCUSSING YOUR CHANGES ON THE DISCUSSION PAGE. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL RESULT IN YOUR EDITING PRIVILEGES BEING BLOCKED WITHOUT FURTHER WARNINGS."

I know putting up warnings in big capital letters probably seems a bit dramatic, but we really need to cut down on the edit warring and lower the temperature in general. If it means insta-banning hit-and-run vandals, I'm game. What do the rest of you think? -- ChrisO 23:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

If they are "hit-and-run" vandals, then the threat of banning doesn't have much effect, since they will have "run" anyway. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:14, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Worth a try, I suppose. I assume it'll be in html comments, not actually visible, of course. Might work better than the futile one at the top of George W. Bush if most of the vandalism is to the infobox as you say, since they'll actually see it (as opposed to missing because they do section edits). —Cryptic (talk) 23:18, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

If you mean commented out it's been tried. It doesn't work.Geni 23:28, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't quite like adding that message. Perhaps something to the effect of "The name of the country has been agreed by <source> and has been the subject of much discussion. Please do not change it without discussion at the talk page first. Thanks!" will accomplish the same thing (though HTML messages, as Geni points out, have had limited success in the past) without scaring off other editors. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 00:59, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, if I recal correctly, section editing is disabled on George W. Bush, thus forcing everybody to see the big "DO NOT VANDALISE THIS ARTICLE!!" message at the top.--Sean|Black 01:02, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for all the advice - I'll try it and see how it goes. -- ChrisO 09:24, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Erkabo

How do we feel about four people using the same User account name? Isn't this an abuse of the User page policy? User:Zoe| 01:12, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I feel like we must have better things to worry about. Phil Sandifer 01:14, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

"Well stated, son." James Jones Previous unsigned statement by MARMOT (talk · contribs), 16:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the useful input. Don't you have better things to worry about than harrassing me? User:Zoe| 02:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Like perusing the Administrators' noticeboard and weighing in on issues. Phil Sandifer 02:56, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I left a note on the talk page advising them that it'd be better for each individual to have their own account. I don't see it as a big deal, but I don't particularly like shared accounts, either. Friday (talk) 01:17, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Shared accounts aren't allowed by policy. And saying there are better things to worry about is inherently pointless. Redwolf24 (talk) Attention Washingtonians! 03:04, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

No, that's public accounts, which isn't what this is. Phil Sandifer 04:41, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

This is pretty obviously not allowed since it makes attributing authorship to those owning the copyright impossible to do reliably. Block it indefinitely. Snowspinner, there's really no need to comment on a question only to say you wish you didn't have to comment. -Splash 04:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

That's absurd. It makes it no more difficult than assigning copyright to a contribution made from someone in an AOL IP range. Phil Sandifer 04:36, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

So you did have something to say. -Splash 04:41, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Either way, don't block it without giving them time to read the warning and respond. We don't want to loose more contributors. Broken S 04:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

We certainly want more "loose editors" we just don't want to lose them. :) - Mgm| 12:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

WP:BP#"Public" accounts. -Splash 04:41, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

This account is clearly not a "general" public account. Phil Sandifer 04:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

it is quite clearly "for...use by multiple people" and "pretending to a reputation as an individual within the Misplaced Pages project, while masking anonymity". -Splash 04:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, when you take the words out of the quote you can change its meaning. Very good. It is not for general public use by multiple people - its use is neither general nor public. And it is hardly masking anonymity, since it clearly admits to its four users and gives their names. Phil Sandifer 04:46, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok, well, I think there is sufficient basis in WP:BP to end editing by that account, and you think there is sufficient basis to allow it to continue. We're going to have to disagree. -Splash 06:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Are there even any problematic edits for this account, or are we now making up blocking policy to block accounts that aren't even doing anything wrong? Phil Sandifer 04:48, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

"Once again, an excellent point by Phil. Totally in agreement." J. Jones Previous unsigned statement by MARMOT (talk · contribs), 16:59, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Suppose one of them vandalises and gets themselves blocked. Pretending to be one of the other users, they ask for it to be unblocked at which point they resume vandalising. Repeat once or twice until admins decline to unblock. Or suppose they are are a troll or two, how much of a mess will arbitration be with "it wasn't me, it was him, no it wasn't it was him" stories? Still worse when we go to 3RR; how does that apply to multi-user accounts? How would the account ever make it through RfA? How do we know tht they didn't publicise their password much more widely (Checkuser, presumably)? And why can't they just go get proper accounts anyway? There's no good reason not to, and many good reasons to do so. It is not in our interest to permit multiple-user accounts. -Splash 06:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that's right, it'll open up all sorts of unintended consequences down the road. In any case, Broken S is right, give them a chance to respond to the note Friday left before doing something rash, they're editing in good faith. Rx StrangeLove 06:59, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

3RR would clearly apply per account, as would all the other rules - this is clearly four people asking to be treated as one. Phil Sandifer 06:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The 'no public accounts' policy exists to deal with accounts which are shared by a large number of unrelated individuals (usually strangers) and used for the purpose of trolling or vandalism. The last time it came up in a serious way was with the nonsense involving User:Iasson and User:Faethon (and all the other socks) back around the beginning of the year. Iasson was creating accounts and making the passwords public so that anyone could edit under those names.

In this case, it would seem that the users are willing to accept joint accountability and responsiblity for the actions of any of the users–has someone asked them about this?–and so there's nothing wrong with treating it as a regular account. As was asked earlier, has this account shown a propensity for vandalism? If the editors in question are willing to be treated as a single user for the purposes of policy enforcement, 3RR, etc., then why do we need to worry about it? We block editors when their continued free action seems likely to damage or disrupt Misplaced Pages—I don't see evidence to support that happening in this case. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:59, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

User:86.135.53.17

This user has generally disrupted the maintenance of good editing at Martin Heidegger and the accompanying talk page. Editing other peoples comments on the talk page. Using the article itself as a forum for interpretations and ethnic slurs and making ethnic comments on the talk page. Requesting "non-Anglo" viewpoints after being advised that NPOV does not involve "Anglo or non-Anglo" considerations. Amerindianarts 01:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

• Can we get some diffs. I can't fidn him editing other people's comments. - Mgm| 12:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

* The Martin Heidegger talk page.  It was reverted by user FranksValli with a warning.  User User:86.135.53.17 accused others of using his ID and that he was being "set up" .Amerindianarts 03:25, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Kates Tool

What is up with Kate's Tool all of the sudden, all I get are Disk Failure messages and this has been going on for the past 4 days or so. I know this is probably already been discussed before but could someone fill me in? SWD316 04:32, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Probably not, since Kate is who runs it and presumably put the message up. Careful, or you'll get them all started about the End of the World if we look at edit count. Again. -Splash 04:33, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Good riddance, Kate's tool has good uses but only one in a thousand people who use it use it for good uses. Jtkiefer ---- 05:30, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Uncyclopedia:Kate - David Gerard 19:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The disk which Kate's tool runs on has failed. It will be a little while (which I interpret as a few days) before a new disk is configured to replace it. (I'm just repeating what I recall of what someone else said.)-gadfium 08:25, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

That's odd. Aren't all the tools now on spanking new Sun servers? Failure so soon? Enochlau 09:08, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

• I've created a crude and rudimentary backup to Kate's Tool. Please see User:Flcelloguy/Tool. Comments appreciated. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 17:49, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Page move

Could someone please perform the move voted for on Talk:Maalot-Tarshikha#Requested move. Thank you. Izehar 12:59, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

done Broken S

Temporary ban from editing on FuelWagon

The Arbitration Committee has enacted a temporary editing restriction on FuelWagon. Until the conclusion of the Arbitration case, FuelWagon v. Ed Poor, he may not edit any page except those directly related to the Arbitration case, and his User and User Talk pages. If FuelWagon violates this, any sysop is authorised to block him for a short time, up to three days, and all such edits may be reverted by any editor without regard to the limitations of the three revert rule.

James F. (talk) 17:51, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Outrage

"I was recently browsing through the Charmed article (thank you, Dsmouse) when I came across some highly inappropriate images uploaded a couple of days ago. As it happened, my fat wife had just walked in and mistook the page for a porno site. Needless to say, I've had nothing but shit all weekend. Anyway, the main offenders appear to be Alyssa Milano and similar filth from Embrace of the vampire. Someone should go and delete this before we get a lawsuit or something. I mean, children look at these pages." MARMOT

This got removed a few times as trolling. It's not, but he did a bad job of bringing the subject up. There were some pictures of boobies on that article, which I have deleted as being unsourced (and the guy was using the license lottery as well. sigh.). Anyway, I suggest marmot give diff links when he complains about things like this! :) --Phroziac _. o º 18:27, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Heinrich Himmler page protection

Good admins of Misplaced Pages, we seriously need a page protection on the Heinrich Himmler article. An anon IP address user has been continously inserted some revisionist statements that Himmler was murdered by the British (instead of committing suicide) and this is now "accepted" due to a highly controversial book written by a little known freelance author. We have invited the person making these changes tod ebate the validity on Talk:Heinrich Himmler but they simply persit in uploading these POV statements that the book is "compelling" and contains "highly accurate" information. An attempt was also made to get the user to respond via talk page but the user ignored these attempts at resolution as well. Page protection is needed at this point. Thank you! -Husnock 19:02, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I reviewed the situation; I don't think it requires protection yet, but can someone else more "senior" review the situation as well? --Nlu 19:19, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I can udnerstand it might not seem too serious at this point. Perhaps a better way to go would be for several admins to watch and revert the anon edits as they happen and possibly block the offender for 3 revert. For the record, here are all the revionist type edits that have been entered (and reverted) in the article about Himmller's death: , , , , , . As you can see, this is someone who wont talk no for an answer and has failed to respond to any messages on user pages or an attempt to debate the situation on the article's talk page. I dont see an end to this any time soon as the uder will most likely continue to report the disputed information, hoping that the registered user will "get tired" of all the reverts and at last let this "new theory" stay in the article. -Husnock 21:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Husnock that this page needs protection now, so that the editor who keeps inserting his POV about this controversial minority theory gets bored and gives up. I shall do so unless anyone objects. -- Necrothesp 22:15, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Instantnood 2 Arbitration case closed

The Arbitration case Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Instantnood 2 has closed. The Committee's decision is as follows:

Instantnood, Huaiwei, and SchmuckyTheCat are all placed on Probation for topics relating to China for a year. This means that any sysop, in the exercise of their judgement for reasonable cause, documented in a section of this decision, may ban them from any article which relates to China which they disrupt by inappropriate editing. In doing so, the sysop must notify the banned user on their talk page, and a note must also placed on WP:AN/I. They may post suggestions on the talk page of any article from which they are banned from editing. This remedy is crafted to permit them to continue to edit articles in these areas which are not sources of controversy. In addition to this, Instantnood is restricted to proposing only one page move, poll of editors, or policy change relating to Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (Chinese) per week, and reminded to make useful edit summaries.

Any efforts in enforcing this judgement are greatly appreciated by the Committee.

James F. (talk) 19:20, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

RfC Closing

As we're now over two months since the opening of the RfC against me, I was wondering if someone could be bothered to delist the thing now, especially since I haven't deleted any AfD debates since, well, the RfC was started? Comments taken, behavior changed. I find it distressing that the RfC has been left for two months and become, increasingly, a magnet for trolls and people with clear agendas beyond changing my mind on how to handle deletion issues. Phil Sandifer 01:20, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Delisted (but not deleted). -Splash 01:42, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. And yes, deleting would have been bad. :) Phil Sandifer 01:43, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Review Mechanism

In the New York Times, Jimbo Wales says he is "starting a review mechanism by which readers and experts could rate the value of various articles. The reviews, which he said he expected to start in January, would show the site's strengths and weaknesses and perhaps reveal patterns to help them address the problems." Anyone know where I can read more about this on Misplaced Pages or maybe get involved? I searched around but couldn't find anything.--Alabamaboy 01:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Your best strategy would be to ask him. - Nunh-huh 02:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

See m:Article validation feature and m:Article validation possible problems for the currently publicised information. This doesn't appear to include any mention of January. Nice to feel so informed, again. -Splash 02:21, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages Signpost has reported in the last few weeks about article validation being enabled soon. Ral315 (talk) 03:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

It's currently due to be switched on "any time now", i.e. when Brion feels it's ready. Brion is the one determining when it goes on - David Gerard 12:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. --Alabamaboy 14:06, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Oklahoma Christian University

I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this, but an administrator Alkivar has blocked CapnCrack and an IP address 68...something even though they were not vandalizing. He then reverted a bunch of edits (even though they were not vandalism) and protected the page. Some of the stuff he reverted even had sources and he still reverted it. The revert notice says that the page will be protected until the dispute is resolved on the oklahoma Christian University talk page. However, he has blocked several of the key people involved on one side of the argument.

When others tried to discuss the problem with him, he just removed their comments from his talk page. He has stifled the entire debate about this matter even though the side he has crushed has sources, encyclopedic-style writing, and has done no wrong. What can be done about this? I think the 68... address should be re-instated immediately, the page should be unprotected, or at the least, it should be reverted to include the documented material and then protected.

I don't think Alkivar should be punished or anything like that, but I think he should be asked to reconsider this undue abuse of his power. He has sided a guy danlovejoy who frequently edits the page in a biased manner (he is the online marketing director for OC, doesn't get much more biased than that).

Sorry for perhaps being long-winded, and I hope this does not fall on deaf ears.

Thanks. 68.97.3.125 07:28, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

You might like to see this user (user:CapnCrack's use of edit summaries --pgk 07:54, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

• It's interesting to note that despite CapnCrack's "vandalesque" edit summaries (I especially like "motherfucker, you're the one (squeak, squeak)" and "more wikis, you little anal assassins"), his edits all seem to be on the up-and-up. Given the vandal whack-a-mole that anybody on RC duty is confronted with, it's easy to see why Alkivar would interpret these edits as vandalism. – ClockworkSoul 07:59, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Not all edits. See line 29 in this diff. Jkelly
    • And this one: . This guy needs an attitude adjustment. Kelly Martin (talk) 12:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
      • I'm not sure that two very minor acts of vandalism meant that a vandal should be permenantly blocked without warning. Maybe someone should have just told him/her that isn't what edit summaries are for. I'm also not sure an administrator should revert a page and then protect it since protection is not supposed to be endoresment of a certain version of a page. An administrator certainly shouldn't remove comments from his talk page when those comments are not abusive. Alkivar needs time to cool down. Beisnj 22:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
        • It may be worth noting that I deleted the edits in question (edit summaries still visible on Special:Undelete, edits themselves only to admins). Ral315 (talk) 18:19, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
          • Please see the talk page in question, specifically this, my edit history, and the talk page of my primary accuser (be sure to read the page history as well). I would love to get comments from experienced Wikipedians as to my role in this disagreement and how I should behave in the future. Dan Lovejoy 19:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Repeated blocking of 169.139.224.10

The IP 169.139.224.10 is the Manatee County school district's HTTP proxy server. When it gets blocked for vandalism, I'm getting caught by this block. This has happened two or three times, the IP's been blocked for a month and I'm stuck behind the block. The only thing I could do was complain on IRC, which works, but I can't do it at school without getting in trouble for using IRC during class. Is there anything that can be done? Admins seem to be ignoring the "THIS IS AN EFFING PROXY" notice on the talk page and continue to block for a month.

Contacting network the administrator was suggested. I know who that is, but the only thing that would accomplish is getting Misplaced Pages blocked from OUR proxy server, since they're stupid enough to see this as a way to chat, and therefore cheat on things. They block a lot of sites for that same reason. I can't provide much help on this end of the IP. My RFA is most likely going to succeed and is 3 days away. Would there be a problem with unblocking myself if I get caught with the block again if/when it succeeds? Is there anything else that can be done to stop this IP from getting blocked? I have no idea who's doing the vandalism, or even if they're at my school. Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 17:59, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Collateral damage is a problem and a serious concern. It should be very easy for your school's system administrator to match time stamps of vandalism to outbound proxy traffic. Have you brought this up with the proper authorities at your school? Hall Monitor 18:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

The only thing the proper authorities do is yell at people. They don't listen to students at all. I have pull with one of the adminstrators, but not nearly enough to get him to look at the proxy logs. Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 18:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

If that is the case, my advice to you is to reserve your editing until you get home and focus on your studies while at school. The vandalism originating from that proxy is outrageous. Hall Monitor 18:24, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

You also said "My RFA is most likely going to succeed and is 3 days away." When was the last time you reviewed Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Luigi30 3? Hall Monitor 18:03, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

A few minutes ago, and it was 31/9/0 ;) Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 18:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I interpret Luigi's comments to mean that it will be brought again in three days and it will succeed.

But as for the issue with collateral damage -- I think we're caught in a bind here; if we block, we catch legitimate users in the block, but if we don't block, these IPs trash Misplaced Pages. I tend to believe this: Luigi, you don't need to do your editing at school. Do it elsewhere where you wouldn't run into this problem. --Nlu 18:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

But still, the IP shouldn't be blocked for a month; it's a proxy! Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 18:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

No, it was just a mislinking by Hall Monitor. --Syrthiss 18:09, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Ah yes, thank you for correcting my link, I did not realise there was a third RFA in progress. Hall Monitor 18:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Sockpuppet?

A new user: Holbern (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been been acting very suspiciously, and I think this diff says it all. He may be a sockpuppet of Mr.Treason on the Run (talk · contribs) who is indefintely blocked. Izehar (talk) 18:51, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I am not a sockpuppet - just an anti-vandal Misplaced Pages editor. --Holbern 19:07, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, why are you messing with the "blocked" notices? Izehar (talk) 19:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

and putting {{tl:protected}} on pages that you don't have the ability to actually protect? --Syrthiss 19:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Has just been blocked for vandalism pages --pgk 19:27, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Civil Air Patrol

I'd again like advice on what to do with Civil Air Patrol. Since I posted warnings, the edit war on the article page has died -- replaced by an edit war on Talk:Civil Air Patrol. I blocked one of the participants for 3RR violation, but I'd like someone more experienced to look at the matter and determine what else, if anything, should be done. Thanks. --Nlu 23:40, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Extended block for User:70.189.120.44

I gave User:70.189.120.44 a one-month block. His last few edits have been egregious vandlism, and the last straw was his unconscionable addition to User_talk:SlimVirgin. If anyone thinks I'm overreacting, feel free to bring it up and/or undo the block. But frankly, if we lose an editor who feels comfortable saying such things to other editors, I'm not going to cry crocodile tears. Nandesuka 04:01, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I fully support this. That literally made me sick. We don't need editors who think that's even remotely acceptable.--Sean|Black 04:05, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way, I had to clean out his mess at John Seigenthaler Jr.. We need to be really careful with those articles now, so I took out the vandalism from the history. You can see the stuff I took out if you're admins and go to Special:Undelete/John Seigenthaler Jr.. Titoxd 04:11, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

You missed some of the history, according to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (news)#!. Should someone take care of that? -- SCZenz 06:02, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way, can someone give me directions about that? Is the only way to do it to delete the page entirely and then selective restore? Or is there another way to do it? --Nlu 06:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I know that some of them have remained deleted, but I'm not sure if they should be restored. I made a similar question for Jimmy Wales, but no one told me if those edits should be undeleted. In any case, there are two anons who contributed the "defamation" attacks to the page, so be extremely careful if undeleting. We don't want to delete/selectively restore again... it's a pain. Titoxd 06:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I tried to get rid of the edits noted at the Village Pump, but it doesn't seem to have worked. Can someone who's better at this check and see that I didn't screw this up?--Sean|Black 06:12, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

John Byrne Returns

As a heads up, despite the fact that, as Jimbo requested last time this happened, John Byrne is now thoroughly sourced, Byrne and/or his fans are back to removing all negative aspects from the article. People should watch this, and look to return the "Feuds" section with its full set of sources. Phil Sandifer 05:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

More Seigenthaler: no more anon ip edits, say InformationWeek

Was this supposed major development discussed anywhere yet? -- Curps 06:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Yup: here Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(news)#Anon._page_creation_disabled for example. Anons can still edit, but not create pages. Needless to say it is a bit controversial. Antandrus (talk) 06:10, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, I see, no more anons in Special:Newpages as of 19:00 UTC December 5. -- Curps 06:15, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Disciplinary action might be good once in a while and when appropriate, when there seems to be a lot of garbage pages and vandals but not the general norm/standard. Block the new pages from anonymous ips once in a while when garbage and vandalism is frequent but not all the time.--Jondel 07:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

• My understanding is that it is a temporary trial. I think it is a good idea worth giving a try in order to improve reliability. Taking a minute to register I don't think is asking too much. If I am wrong, we will soon find out. Capitalistroadster 10:25, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
  • It is a temporary trial. Once in a while it would be good to have 'fire drills ' or temporary restrictions. I agree about registering. Registering is not asking too much. Registering allows accountability. I don't like to propose another 'rule'. Ideally , for me, there are less rules but more members/citizens who take the rules to heart or follow the rule in spirit. --Jondel 10:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Misplaced Pages:Village pump (news)#Anonymity_does_not_imply_bad_faith. Uncle G 14:25, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
      • Registering has certainly cut out a lot of the real-rubbish type new articles - cruising new articles has almost been a pleasure! :) Brookie: A collector of little round things 16:06, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
        • Yeh I was wondering why Category:Candidates for speedy deletion is so quiet today. Enochlau 22:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
        • Hmm, CSD is starting to fill with rubbish again. A cursory glance at the history reveals that many are created by users who've just signed up. So perhaps it's not really working then, just adding to the burden on Misplaced Pages with all these extra accounts with 1 edit... Enochlau 21:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Input needed

Need input on Talk:CNN, and this article should be under more scrutiny for now. - RoyBoy 17:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Quick selective undeleting and watchlist cleaning

For selective undeleting, this is the quickest method. Create a bookmark, and put this content in the location field:

javascript:for (i=0; i<document.forms.length; i++) { for (j=0; j<document.forms.elements.length; j++) { f= document.forms.elements; if (f.type == 'checkbox') f.checked= true;  }  } void 0

Then on the undelete page, click the bookmark to check all the boxes. Then uncheck the ones that you want to remain undeleted. It also works on watchlists. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-12-6 17:59

Awesome. You get an extra cookie tonight.--Sean|Black 20:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

If you're a Firefox user, you can get the delightful Web Developer Extension. Under Tools → Web Developer → Forms, select Populate Form Fields, and all checkboxes will be checked! —HorsePunchKid→龜 2005-12-07 04:19:43Z

Brian0918, I worship the ground you edit. Ral315 (talk) 18:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

User:MostWanted05

I blocked MostWanted05 for five days for faking page protection on Aftermath Entertainment, but I am wondering if I should have blocked shorter or longer. Thoughts? --Nlu 01:13, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Probably not longer; I would have gone shorter, though I think 5 days is fine. Ral315 (talk) 23:50, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Removal of libel from history

In reponse to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (news)#Question about libel in history, I suggested that users who find libelous edits that may need to be deleted post that information on this page. If that's not right, someone should correct my response. -- SCZenz 04:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

More on removal of libel from history

I'm the person User:SCZenz was responding to (see above item). The particular edit I was thinking of that may need to be deleted from an edit history is . The same accusation was apparently not noticed by other editors and was retained in succeeding edits , , , , , , . Note that only the first cited edit made the offensive claim; the other edits left that claim in, but did not amplify or change it. --Metropolitan90 05:34, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Have I been blocked?

NB- I am not an admin, but I need admin/developer attention. When I try to edit on anon, I see this: Misplaced Pages has restricted the ability for unregistered users to create new pages. You may list the content you wish to have created. You may also log in or create an account, enabling you to create new pages. Please read our introduction for more information about Misplaced Pages. --195.188.51.100 12:37, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

No you have not been blocked. But a few days back an "experiment" was started where only logged in users would be able to create articles. The idea was to avoid the creation of nonsense articles which need administrators in order to remove it. I know that not everyone is entirely enthused about this change (I know I'm not). If you want to create a page you can visit Misplaced Pages:Articles for creation, but I would recommend just creating an account. Sjakkalle (Check!) 12:51, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Church of Reality

Church of Reality was recently deleted after an ugly fight culminating in the author of that article, Mark Perkel, being blocked for a week and deleted page being protected. Perkel then userfied the CofR page. Now, there's a Marc Perkel article, which contains a wikilink to that userfied version. It's unclear how to deal with this. On the one hand, I guess a user has the right to put whatever they want on their user pages. On the other hand, this looks like it's really just a clever way to get around the deletion process. Perhaps some more experienced admins could take a look at this and figure out what (if anything) should be done? --RoySmith 17:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

It seems to be in hand. That article is now up for deletion, and it doesn't (and shouldn't) currently link to the userified page. - Taxman 22:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Oklahoma Christian University

There is a long string of profane edit summaries in the Oklahoma Christian University history. This vandalism has been reverted. Could someone hide these edits? If this request is improper, please advise. Dan Lovejoy 21:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. They're still visible on the history page when clicking "30 deleted edits", but at least for now, the vandalism itself is gone. Ral315 (talk) 18:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Antidote and List of Jewish Fellows of the Royal Society

This list has survived two attempts to delete it in a short space of time. Today Antidote twice tried to get rid of it by renaming it as List of Fellows of the Royal Society and adding other names. Now he has marked it as "totally disputed", giving no other reason on the talk page than that he doesn't think it should exist. Can someone remove the "totally disputed" tag? - Newport 23:54, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I see no administrator action or input needed here. Please carry out the issue on the talk page. Some of those actions appear less than helpful, but the user did give a valid reason for the tag in the edit summary. Discuss on the talk page just like any other content/article dispute. - Taxman 00:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Hacker standard time

I deleted this on the premise of db-repost, but I was informed that the previous deletion was speedy, and hence db-repost should not apply. I tried to undelete it using the Restore button, but that seems to have failed, and I can't see the deleted edits any more. Did I do something horribly wrong? See also Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Hacker standard time. Enochlau 01:14, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry. Problem resolved. Enochlau 01:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Help with possible Imposter/Bot

Can an admin take a look at the behaviour here. There is a newly created user here called jgrutz (I'm user jgritz). I believe most of the anonymous edits are from the same user. It seems like he's up to something, and has been adding spam links here and there. If this is the wrong place, can you let me know where to put this to get a second opinion. Thanks! - Jgritz 03:50, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

He/she has been blocked indefinitely per Misplaced Pages:Username. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 00:18, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Uncooperative user; not sure what to do

Hi, all. Let me first say I've looked for a better place to post this, but this seemed the most appropriate; if there's somewhere else, just point me there. I'm having trouble with User:Deathrocker and the My Chemical Romance article. DR has decided that one way, and I have decided that it's better another way. DR continues to revert without comment, has failed to engage me in any meaningful way on the talk page, and has blanked my attempts to open a dialog on his own talk page.

What's to be done? We're both avoiding violations of the 3RR, I think, but just barely. Would it be appropriate to protect the page until the issue is resolved? I feel I shouldn't do it myself, as I am involved in it as a content dispute. —HorsePunchKid→龜 2005-12-08 06:55:55Z

Protected. However, this is an area that's entirely out of my ... expertise. Can someone else step in and monitor the page? --Nlu (talk) 07:07, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this particular band (and genre, for that matter) is outside of my expertise, too. What I can do, though, is provide credible, verifiable sources for my version. If anybody else here knows much about My Chemical Romance, goth, punk, emo music, anything like that, please chime in! Thanks for your assistance, Nlu. —HorsePunchKid→龜 2005-12-08 07:23:52Z

Linkspamming

Hi all, User:164.100.150.122 has been prolific in adding a link to this site Higher Education Opportunities in India to all Indian education articles. As you can imagine, my rv trigger-finger was prompted into action; however, I'd like some feedback as to whether this was the correct decision and should all his/her other edits adding that link be reverted?. SoLando (Talk) 07:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Most definitely; the site is misleadingly named and is clearly spammy. In fact, I'd block the user (after sufficient warnings, of course). --Nlu (talk) 07:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

My trigger-finger feels relieved ;-) SoLando (Talk) 07:20, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Jimbo's challenge to admins

Jimbo has posted a challenge for admins. See Talk:Alan Dershowitz. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-12-8 07:29

So can we now remove the rather silly little statement at the top of RfA about adminship being no big deal? Plainly, if admins are to be allowed to edit protected pages specifically for the purpose of the determining what is true, it is a pretty big deal. Until last night, admins had no content review role on Misplaced Pages. We appear to have been handed one all of a sudden. -Splash 19:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Troll much? Phil Sandifer 01:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

And? It's an interesting task, which nobody is being forced to do. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-12-8 21:53

Sounds interesting to me. Also sounds like it might be a good way to deal with RV and POV edit wars.--Alabamaboy 22:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

So, when did I miss the announcement that Misplaced Pages was done & finished, we can scrap all participation by anyone not in the cabal or an admin? I want to know why we are running scared of the media, making "concessions" like blocking anon page creation, and this pilot for freezing pages and letting only trusted users edit them. What are they going to do? Gnaw us to death? Regardless of the whims of the media, we can go on happily editing and improving articles. Why are we jeopardizing our system, which works well! for transient approval we aren't even getting? You realize that these restrictions are blood in the water? I think I've seen more articles battening onto our process changes as evidence that everything our critics say is true than I've actually seen articles on the original criticism! The process works, people! We have hundreds of thousands of articles, with many, many great articles, and only a very few are rotten apples. Don't make the cure worse than the disease here. --Maru (talk) Contribs 22:53, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Both are experiments. If they are truly as terrible as you say they are that will become evident and the experiment will end. It's good to try something new now and again. Broken S 23:11, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

No, they are not experiments. That's part of the problem. There is no control Misplaced Pages running with no restrictions on anons creating pages with which to compare. We cannot know how many people were scared off or for whom this barrier was a sufficient disincentive to not edit, or how many crap articles were not created (proving a negative, anyone?), so we cannot compare it to the more easily gathered data on how much editing time was freed up by fewer articles needing review. --Maru (talk) Contribs 23:24, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Making a control for this "experiment" (maybe trial or test is a better word) is nearly impossible. Everyone seems to forget how many people there are in the world. We can't be worried about alienating small hypothetical sets of people, when basically any change we make alienates someone. The loss of one person submitting one article isn't so great. Eventual someone else will come along and do the same thing. Still I'm not convinced that the test should be made permanent. Broken S 01:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

My God, you're right! The sky is falling! Phil Sandifer 01:23, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Slippery slope much? --Maru (talk) Contribs 05:46, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Nobody ever said radical freedom was the main goal. Building an encyclopedia is. Linux is still free as in libre and always will be due to the license, but you can't edit it's source code. Only a few people can directly. I believe we are well past the point were viscious vandalism is a greater detriment to the project than radical freedom is an attractant. More talented, qualified people (read experts) refuse to participate because of the garbage we put up with here than appear to be attracted to it. - Taxman 23:38, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Taxman. Misplaced Pages is now instituting new rules so that anonymous users can't create new pages. Personally, I wouldn't mind expanding that to anonymous users not being able to edit article. As long as users are easily able to sign up and take part, then Misplaced Pages will retain its best aspects. That said, I think it is great to do experiments like Jimbo is doing. That's how we learn. Nothing wrong with that.--Alabamaboy 23:46, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Seconded, mostly. While I don't think that either of these things is a particularly good idea, there just experiments. The vandals become more and more creative, so we have to to. if they're not good ideas, then they won't last.--Sean|Black 23:52, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Highlighting one article and giving it special attention (viz. announcements here and on the mailing list) hardly reflects the reality that would result from making it an ongoing practice. (See Hawthorne effect.) The half-baked nature of evaluating these experiments is one reason I don't fully trust that a detrimental change would be immediately recognized and undone. On the other hand, the notion that administrators have no greater authority or editorial responsibility has been largely pretense—at least we may talk about such matters more honestly now. --Tabor 23:54, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, it wouldn't work if used more generaly. Broken S 01:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Civility parole

I realise that blocking a user for breach of civility is controversial. Could an administrator put a user, who is generally agreed to have regularly crossed the line of civility, on an informal parole (three strikes and you get a 24h block)? It would be a useful tool to keep the chat happier, and admins can block for breach of civility anyway. What do others think? --Gareth Hughes 15:37, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

We can't block for incivility unless it reaches the point of dissrupting wikipedia.Geni 23:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

User ID "∙"

There is a relatively new user with the userid "∙" (User_talk:∙) who has been active in aircraft articles (Contribs). The account creation page states that the username must contain a capital first letter. This sure doesn't seem to fit that criterion. Is the software supposed to enforce that? It's barely visible on my screen and is quite annoying when scanning watchlists, etc. Can/should we force this user to adopt a more conventional handle? -- Kbh3rd 19:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The notice about the capital first letter is because the software forces the first letter to be in uppercase, not because usernames without a uppercase first letter are disallowed. --cesarb 20:09, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I think really short usernames are grounds for a block. They also aren't good for the user in question. We can reattribute the edits if necessary, but it's better to do this now rather than later. — Dunc|☺ 20:45, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Before you slap him with a {{usernameblock}}, though, give him a chance to change username. Titoxd 20:48, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Titoxd meant Misplaced Pages:Changing username, not WP:CU. :) --best, kevin 21:05, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

User has been given a chance which he has refused to do so I'm going to username block Jtkiefer ---- 22:36, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Alert ! Got a really annoying bug ! Alert!

I've got a bug going on that, when I log on/in, using my online designation, it keeps acting like I have NOT logged on/in. This glitch will cause someone out there to falsely accuse me of being a sockpuppeteer or worse. Told it was a technical glitch in Internet Explorer. This may have also happened to other Users, leading them to be falsely accused of being sockpuppets and the like.Martial Law 22:50, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, it looks like you're not logged in even when you have? Firstly ensure that cookies are enabled. It may also be due to the browser incorrectly displaying cached content; you may wish to clear the browser cache. Enochlau 22:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Or use Firefox... --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 23:02, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I log in as "Martial Law", then browse through Misplaced Pages, such as the UFO article,etc., then add data(all true),state source of data, conduct other editing business, then use the 4 ~s, only that something like 71.40.123.100 appears instead of Martial Law. Cookies are enabled. Martial Law 23:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is that you've got some app running in the background killing cookies - doing you a "service" by protecting your privacy or something. Yeh, I'd agree with Jeffrey O. Gustafson and see if using Firefox will solve the problem. If it does, then it's IE stuffing up. Enochlau 23:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Known bug. It has been reported with firefox. Soory I don't know what is causeing it but it might be worth makeing sure you clear your browser cache. Switch over to a different skin (I recomend classic) so you know when you are logged out.Geni 23:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Just did'nt want someone calling me a sockpuppet or getting blocked under false pretenses because of some bug.Martial Law 00:32, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Software bugs / inappropriate sysop rights

Hello. I should not have sysop rights, since I'm not an admin. However, whenever I visit user pages, I've begun to notice additional sysop-only links such as "Block Saravask" and "Unblock Saravask". I am seeing these links whenever I visit any userpage, as well as other pages. I don't want to end up blocking anyone else (or worse, myself!) accidentally. Could someone fix this? Thanks. Saravask 23:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

No, you're not an admin. What happens is that you have copied a user script file that has those abilities (probably from WikiProject User scripts). However, if you click on any of those links, you will get an "access denied" message, so don't worry about it. You're fine. Titoxd 23:22, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I removed the script. Saravask 23:28, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

User:APUS

APUS claims to be a teacher who has given his/her students access to his/her account. Every edit from the account is nonsense vandalism. Everything APUS is warn APUS claims it is the students again. I blocked the account for 24 hours and refused to unblock. Is running a public account (creating an account and then giving out the password) grounds for indef block? -- Psy guy 00:06, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

WP:BP#"Public" accounts. Judge for yourself, but I think very much so yes. The account gets no excuses at vandalism more than any other account. If it has vandalised widely, it sits it out for at least 24 hours. Life's tough, and registering's easy. -Splash 01:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy clearly gives "Public accounts" as a cause for indefinite blocks; feel free to do so. Ral315 (talk) 01:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Chooserr (talk · contribs)

Sorry, not buying it anymore, way too farmiliar with wiki, way too hostile, way too good at gaming the system, has already admited to making sockpuppets after being blocked, who wants to bet chooserr not only has sockpuppets, but is in fact a sock of some other user? Someone want to do an ip check against a few previous problem users?--Aolanonawanabe 01:05, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

• Is also essentially spamming the talk pages of random new users with inviations to his BC/BCE revert war--Aolanonawanabe 01:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
• Look up ^^^^^^^ (although that went kinda off topic), there is also #Chooserr Sortan 01:12, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

• I should point out that this is an on going problem, and that he has literally been at it, since the exact moment that his last block expired--Aolanonawanabe 01:27, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

• I fail to see how he is recruiting users to join his side of a dispute and for your reference checking the newusers log and welcoming users is not spam. Jtkiefer ---- 01:45, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Linkspam?

The whole thing has essentially boiled down to chooserr creating two or three line articles, with no content other than links to anti-abortion websites--Aolanonawanabe 02:56, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

• I'm as pro-abortion as they come, and let me say this: Cool it with the edit warring, now, Aolanonwanabe. His stub pages appear to be relatively NPOV (there's hardly enough content in them for there to be room for POV) and stubs aren't against any policy. If the organizations are notable enough to merit a page, they can have a page. If not, take them to AfD. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Aidan Work

I think this user is certain to eventually create legal problems for Misplaced Pages if he isn't dealt with now. Have a look at his contribs (including his assertion that a (now) NZ Member of Parliament "should have been shot for trying to cause a bloodbath". Some of his comments are clearly libelous. I've had enough of trying to get through to him, so is there anyone else who could like to approach him. Moriori 02:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Moriori, it is actually not libellous to condemn some of the worst racists on the planet. Tariana Turia & Gerry Adams are among these, given the fact that their notoriety is very well-known. - (Aidan Work 05:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC))

External links in signatures

We fight off link spammers all the time. What about users who link to their site in their signatures? See: Stirling Newberry (talk · contribs). — BRIAN0918 • 2005-12-9 04:26

User:Camillus McElhinney

He needs an eye to be kept on, as he has started to accuse people of promoting racism & sectarianism, especially condemning the Roman Catholic Church's critics, who are only expressing their opinions on their talk pages. - (Aidan Work 07:49, 9 December 2005 (UTC))

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