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Revision as of 02:15, 9 October 2009

Edit summaries and signing comments

Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary. Thank you. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 00:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Misplaced Pages pages that have open discussion, such as in England, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 00:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Working together

I have the impression that you are rather upset with me after our discussions on the talk pages of Bulgaria and Gradeshnitsa tablets. We've been discussing matters for a few days now. I am not trying to make you upset; I am just trying to help improve these articles.

I realize I have removed and changed some text in these articles and that you disagree with my editing actions. This is a normal interaction on Misplaced Pages. Our task is now to work out our differences to our mutual satisfaction while retaining Misplaced Pages's encyclopedic neutral, encyclopedic point of view.

I wish to note that I was not the only editor who has removed your edits. From your comments, I do get the impression you think I am someone actively working against you. Working against you is not my intent - I am trying to work with you. I want to find the proper place, and way, to address your concerns in Misplaced Pages. I do not dispute the evidence for possible ancient writing in the region of present-day Bulgaria. I dispute that we have reached the proper place, and proper tone: I think we should not discuss this so prominently in the Bulgaria article without a lot more care.

Some of the work that resulted in part from this discussion was actually productive - there is now a Gradeshnitsa tablets article, and you have found some very useful academic articles about the matter of early writing in the region. We should definitely continue with this productive exercise and expand the Gradeshnitsa tablets article.

Possible connection to User:Lantonov

I found myself in a discussion with Monshuai, and a few day later I find user User:Lantonov take text I wrote in this discussion and use it in an entirely different context in another discussion altogether (see User talk:Lantonov for more I wrote on this). Both users are interested in POVs in connection to Bulgaria. Martijn Faassen (talk) 19:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Your name has been mentioned at Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard

You are welcome to join the discussion there. EdJohnston (talk) 05:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Recent edits

I really do not think you can pretend to be more experienced by having a longer participation. You may have some excellent experience in being a columnist, but statements in a style, such as Bulgarian scientists have made several important discoveries and inventions that have revolutionized global society.

-The the world's first electronic digital computer (John Vincent Atanasoff), ushered in the digital-information age, which has led not only to mass computing but to the development of a number of divergent modern technologies such as the Internet. and following, simply don't have a place here. You can either change the style, or return to the previous version. Your call. - ☣Tourbillon 20:06, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

John Vincent Atanasoff

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on John Vincent Atanasoff. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Please stop the disruption, otherwise you may be blocked from editing. - Alison 01:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Alyson, I understand your concerns and I appreciate your effort to resolve this dispute. As you have seen, this has been an ongoing problem for approximately 2 years. At its earlier stages of escalation, I decided to follow Misplaced Pages rules and take time off from this article hoping that Robert K S will mature over a period of one year and therefore find the strength, intellectual resolve and maturity to neutralize his prejudices. Unfortunately as the weeks turned to months and the months to years, it became apparent that he was not willing to accept the valid arguments presented by other editors. Thus I decided that I would once more attempt to reason with him and therefore made sure to always share my perspectives in the discussion page before proceeding to change anything in the Atanasoff article. This too failed. That said, I thank you for taking the time to look into this matter. I appreciate your objective analysis of the situation and I am sure that both Robert K S and I will do our utmost to be productive members of the Wikipedian community. He is articulate and intelligent. If he becomes impartial and compassionate, he will be a truly remarkable editor. Have a great day and I hope we will talk again in more delightful circumstances. You're what every administrator should be: neutral, polite and conscientious.--Monshuai (talk) 02:03, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, your repeated goading of User:Robert K S on the talk page of this article has gone on long enough. Your latest comments have descended into personal attacks. It should be clear that Robert K S' use of rollback does not vindicate your position in any way whatsoever, nor does it relate to the content of the above article. Furthermore, your attacks on Bielle and your unfounded charges of racial bias are unwarranted and unfair in the extreme.Consider this a formal warning. Discuss the article and its issues, by all means, but please stop the personalized campaign against the other contributors. We're all there to improve the article and the encyclopedia, so please bear it in mind. Further attacks (yes, attacks) of this nature will only result in your being blocked from editing - Alison 00:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Alison, you are essentially telling me to stop defending ethnic groups against racism. If I have to I will take this issue to the highest authorities and to administrators of various ethnic and racial backgrounds, because it seems to me that in such a way they will be able to analyze the situation at hand and whether or not I am deserving of being threatened by you. I will not capitulate in the face of racism and double standards. My ancestors did not struggle with prejudism just so it can be used against them and their memory here in Misplaced Pages. If anything should happen to my account because I have been fighting prejudice and racism then I will formally write letters to the founders of Misplaced Pages and I will point them to this discussion. I have already documented all related statements into my hard drive database. I will approach this from every moral and ethical avenue possible and I will do so for as long as I must to neutralize the unfair treatment of disadvantaged ethnic groups.--Monshuai (talk) 00:20, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not "essentially telling" you that. I'm telling you to stop the goading of Robert K S, and stop the ad-hominem attacks. That's all. Feel free to take the issue elsewhere, by all means, but I'm not going to stand by watching you mock and goad another editor. No way. And put the racism card back away, please. My comments had absolutely nothing to do with the content of that page and everything to do with your attitude towards others - Alison ❤ 00:24, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

How do you expect me to behave when I see that you have not yet allowed the inclusion of the statement that Atanasoff is the first Bulgarian-American to gain prominence in the science and technology fields of the United States? What do you expect me to think when you haven't allowed the inclusion of a sentence that states that he was the first Bulgarian-American to be awarded the National Medal of Technology? I do not see you having placed the text Bulgarian-American anywhere! What attitude do you think a person who is dealing with racism and prejudism should have? Do you feel that a Black person whose heritage is being denied will simply smile and pretend that everything is OK? Why have you not made the said changes to the Atanasoff article, even reverting the edits of others, while it is clear that the same standards have not been applied to other articles?--Monshuai (talk) 00:39, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Quit trying to play the race card. Quit blaming me for not adding it (I've no interest either way, thanks). Treat others properly, quick the smartass comments towards Robert K S. Discuss your issues on the talk page, try to come to some consensus, or at least some comromise, because attacking other editors as you are will just get you blocked - Alison 00:43, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I will not quit "playing" the race card. It's not a game Alison and therefore I am not playing. Racism is a real life issue. Racism is the worst of human realities. And if you don't have an interest either way about what goes into the article, why did you revert the edit by Janelle, who wrote that John Atanasoff is the first Bulgarian-American to win the National Medal of Technology? I have already compromised and so have other people who want Atanasoff's Bulgarian-American heritage be shown. Originally we simply wanted him to be called Bulgarian-American in the opening sentence. Then we compromised and stated that it would be acceptable if he is called the first Bulgarian-American to achieve such and such a few lines down...--Monshuai (talk) 00:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Sure, you're playing the race card. I'm more than familiar with racism, having worked in Britain during the 80s at the height of The Troubles. However, this is unrelated to anything here, as is your experience and inane accusations. I did not 'revert' your friend Janelle's edits, I partly undid them. Note that I left in the phonetic rendering of his name. The rest - as you know - is currently being debated hotly on the talk page. BTW - who's "we"? - Alison 01:03, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes it is being hotly debated and you are trying to silence by threatening my editorial rights (even whilst I'm not editing but only involved in a discussion page dispute) just because I am able to identify the fallacies in the statements made by said editors. BTW, is it within your administrative rights to threaten or to block people who are expressing their opinions and using evidence to interpret what other editors are saying on the said discussion pages?

Again, why did you revert her edit about Atanasoff being the first Bulgarian-American to achieve ? When Bielle says that I have to prove that no one else before him who achieved such prominece had a "Bulgarian mother or grandmother", did you jump in to say that's ridiculous? Is there really any way to find out every person's genetic background? Why are other articles not including the genealogical proofs for the millions of Americans who lived or are currently alive at anyone time just so we can be sure that there aren't other first Chinese-Americans, first African-Americans, first Italian-Americans etc? It's like me telling Bielle to irrefutably prove that there are no ferries or leprechauns. Likewise it's akin to me telling someone to prove that there is a God. Is that reasonable and are such requests made for other articles? Is that the policy here? I don't think so!--Monshuai (talk) 01:21, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

← I'm not "trying to silence by threatening editorial rights" - I'm asking you to stop making personal attacks on other editors, in particular, stop goading and mocking User:Robert K S. I still maintain this position and if you persist in attacking him, I or another admin, will block your account. Nothing to do with 'silencing' or racism or whatev - and everything to do with your behaviour towards other editors. It's not that difficult to understand; you are held under the same standards as any other editor (as am I) - Alison 01:37, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

And don't just take my word for it; "It seems that you have no interest in actually listening to the points of view others express. More than that, you have no interest in understanding that others might actually have a point of view that is worth considering. If the word "bigot" didn't already exist, it should have been coined to describe your attitude. You repeatedly twist people's words to suit your argument and refuse to see what they're actually trying to say. Then you assume a tone that is either condescending, outraged, or failing all else, sarcastic. Then you start making personal remarks in order to completely deviate from the point and irritate people." - that's from a fellow-Bulgarian just now - Alison 01:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes we are all held under the same standards. Therefore I may request a multi-ethnic administrative investigation of yourself, Bielle, Robert K S, Apcbg, Janelle4elle and myself. If I am being accused of acting in a way that I do not believe I'm acting and consequently threatened to not analyze what I deem to be their biased statements, then it is ethically correct for me to have an international team of administrators investigate your administrative privilidges as well. That's the only way they'll be able to determine who has been acting in what way. That's fair, right? I think so.--Monshuai (talk) 01:45, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Alison, another Bulgarian is allowed to have this view. He is free to think that way. He after all already stated that he was increasingly embarassed to be Bulgarian. Can I take someone seriously for being embarassed of en entire nation just because of what he deems to be the biased behaviour of one Bulgarian person? I think not.--Monshuai (talk) 01:45, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I think that's very wise, actually. Let's get some more eyes on the situation here. The best place might be Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution requests or in the case of admin issues, Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. I'm not sure if you can vet the ethnic background of the admins, though. People get offended by that stuff, esp. given it's largely irrelevant to editing and to admin work - Alison 01:53, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I will go to various articles where admins of different ethnic backgrounds attend to their duties. I will go to non-English pages and request help from admins who edit in Mandarin Chinese, Arabic, Persian, Hindi, Vietnamese, numerous African languages etc. I will build a team of such admins and I will have them conduct an investigation. The background of admins will in my humble opnion prove relevant since some people have felt the oppression of racism and various forms of prejudism. They know all too well how to identify racism/prejudism/bias etc.--Monshuai (talk) 02:06, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) That pretty-much describes the average admin from WP:ANI, so you might do better to capture your required audience there. But whichever works. Admins should be non-partisan by nature. BTW - I spend most of my time editing in a non-English language wiki where I'm also an admin. English is very much second place for me. Jes' sayin' ... - Alison 02:11, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry Alison, I will find many admins (I think 40-60 will be enough) of various ethnic backgrounds from all over the globe. If you though I was motiveated and dedicated on the discussion page, you will be surprised to see how organised and focused I will be in building this investigative team.--Monshuai (talk) 02:15, 9 October 2009 (UTC)