User talk:Risker: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 16:46, 10 October 2009 editOttava Rima (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users20,327 edits →"There is nothing to resolve here."← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:16, 10 October 2009 edit undoRisker (talk \| contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators28,321 edits →"There is nothing to resolve here.": well, there isn'tNext edit →
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	::If Risker, one of the few arbs with whom I have a modicum of familiarity, actually resigns, what will be your next goal? Will it make you happy? Will it allow you to concentrate on your next article or GA review? Or will it, as I suspect, become inconsequential and simply a long-forgotten memory on your way to achieving a vague moral ideal which you have not defined, but which primarily consists of the other editors not opposing you? --] (]) 16:30, 10 October 2009 (UTC)		::If Risker, one of the few arbs with whom I have a modicum of familiarity, actually resigns, what will be your next goal? Will it make you happy? Will it allow you to concentrate on your next article or GA review? Or will it, as I suspect, become inconsequential and simply a long-forgotten memory on your way to achieving a vague moral ideal which you have not defined, but which primarily consists of the other editors not opposing you? --] (]) 16:30, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
	:::"demanded you leave Misplaced Pages for my self-righteous reasons" - I didn't demand for her to leave. I asked her to resign for ArbCom for being involved in Arbitration that had sock puppets cause problems and disrupt consensus along with making misleading comments about not knowing of any possible abuse by Geogre even though there was clear evidence of her defending Geogre while he was making said abuse. Casliber resigned for far, far less. And yes, having those like Bishonen and Risker no longer in positions of authority will help me edit because I am constantly being harassed by people they are connected to, with edit warring, attacks on pages, etc. These people continue (along with Bishonen doing the same) because they feel that they are defended by these two individuals. Thus, they are facilitating more corruption while it has already been demonstrated that they facilitated it before. This is problematic and damaging to Misplaced Pages as a whole. Moni3 - these people falsified claims in order to provoke destructions of multiple articles and pushed for multiple ban attempts against me built on a bed of lies. That is incredibly destructive. They have also gamed WP:FAC and WP:FAR. That is something I do not appreciate. ] (]) 16:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)		:::"demanded you leave Misplaced Pages for my self-righteous reasons" - I didn't demand for her to leave. I asked her to resign for ArbCom for being involved in Arbitration that had sock puppets cause problems and disrupt consensus along with making misleading comments about not knowing of any possible abuse by Geogre even though there was clear evidence of her defending Geogre while he was making said abuse. Casliber resigned for far, far less. And yes, having those like Bishonen and Risker no longer in positions of authority will help me edit because I am constantly being harassed by people they are connected to, with edit warring, attacks on pages, etc. These people continue (along with Bishonen doing the same) because they feel that they are defended by these two individuals. Thus, they are facilitating more corruption while it has already been demonstrated that they facilitated it before. This is problematic and damaging to Misplaced Pages as a whole. Moni3 - these people falsified claims in order to provoke destructions of multiple articles and pushed for multiple ban attempts against me built on a bed of lies. That is incredibly destructive. They have also gamed WP:FAC and WP:FAR. That is something I do not appreciate. ] (]) 16:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

			'''Hold on just a cotton-picking minute here''': What is this balderdash, Ottava? And why the heck are you spreading your nonsense on this page? The "bed of lies" is your own, not mine. The onus of proof of malfeasance is completely on you; I have already been involved in dispute resolution in respect of this matter, and my explanation has been accepted by the Arbitration Committee. The case doesn't get to be retried because you're still ticked off about something that's already been addressed. I have had personal communication with YellowMonkey, who has also accepted my explanation.

			Ottava, Geogre didn't harass you, he challenged you, and he is one of the few people to have bothered to do it. Most of us just walk away, knowing it will mean days, even weeks of wasted time and energy. In fact, I walked away from anything relating to you eons ago. You have no beef with me, you have a beef with someone who hasn't edited in two months and is unlikely ever to return. Your arguments are fabricated, unsupported, and assume bad faith to the point that I am surprised that Misplaced Pages hasn't taken the same steps that Misplaced Pages Review took some time ago in respect of you.

			It is clear that you have no desire to resolve anything with anyone, Ottava Rima, only to perpetuate drama and hostility. You were unblocked to work on content, and here you are perpetuating exactly the behaviour you were just blocked for. You have badly abused the good faith of several other editors in your behaviour in this and many other disputes. Your continued pursuit of matters that have already been addressed by dispute resolution are unacceptable and not in the best interests of the encyclopedia, which is the primary reason that we are here. Disagreeing with you is not harmful to the encyclopedia, Ottava. Your moral outrage is out of place. As you have made it clear that you see only one satisfactory resolution to a problem that you cannot even bother to demonstrate exists, I have absolutely no intention of discussing this matter further with you. The dispute resolution system has already been implemented, a decision has been made, and it's time for you to get over it. Hyperbole, lack of perspective, unfulfilled desire for revenge, and overblown self-importance on your part do not mean malfeasance on my part.

			No further posts to this page, please, Ottava Rima, now that you have made it clear you have no desire to resolve any issues; I will be removing further posts and will have no problems with other editors also removing them. If you have a question relating to a specific arbitration matter, post it in the body of that matter; if it is something directed specifically to me ''about that matter'', ask a clerk to advise me. I have eschewed interaction with you for a very long time and I intend to keep it that way. ] (]) 18:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:16, 10 October 2009

If you're here to respond to a comment I posted on your talk page, feel free to reply on your talk page so the question and answer are together. I tend to watch talk pages I've posted comments to for a few weeks after my initial post. If you leave me a message, I'll respond here unless you ask me to reply somewhere else. --Risker (talk) 00:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Beware! This user's talk page is monitored by talk page watchers. Some of them even talk back.

Useful things for me to remember or I will never find them again, plus archive links

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Column-generating template families

The templates listed here are not interchangeable. For example, using {{col-float}} with {{col-end}} instead of {{col-float-end}} would leave a <div>...</div> open, potentially harming any subsequent formatting.

Column templates
Type Family Handles wiki
table code? Responsive/
mobile suited Start template Column divider End template

Float "col-float" Yes Yes {{col-float}} {{col-float-break}} {{col-float-end}}

"columns-start" Yes Yes {{columns-start}} {{column}} {{columns-end}}

Columns "div col" Yes Yes {{div col}} – {{div col end}}

"columns-list" No Yes {{columns-list}} (wraps div col) – –

Flexbox "flex columns" No Yes {{flex columns}} – –

Table "col" Yes No {{col-begin}},
{{col-begin-fixed}} or
{{col-begin-small}} {{col-break}} or
{{col-2}} .. {{col-5}} {{col-end}}

Can template handle the basic wiki markup {| | || |- |} used to create tables? If not, special templates that produce these elements (such as {{(!}}, {{!}}, {{!!}}, {{!-}}, {{!)}})—or HTML tags (<table>...</table>, <tr>...</tr>, etc.)—need to be used instead.

My talk page is also my "to-do" list

No really, I do read all my messages in a timely manner. I also archive fairly regularly once the subject of the message has been resolved. I keep things on my talk page until they've been addressed, so stuff tends to be out of date order. Consider the top half of this page my to-do list. Some things just take time. See also User:Risker/Copyedit Requests. Risker (talk)

Messages below please

Ping

Oh hullo. I have emailed the mailing list at arbcom-llists.wikimedia.org. (You don't have a listed email at the page Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee). The message awaits moderator approval. My apologies for forgetting the password on the other one. --OSPAWAPOSP II (talk) 22:01, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I think we received it, but I will check again when I am at my other workstation. You can also email me by clicking "email this user" from this page. Risker (talk) 18:54, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi OSPAWPOSP, I have reviewed the archives, and I don't believe we did receive your email. I have responded here but will also leave a message on this page. I am going to be away for a bit, so please don't email me. Instead, go to User:Arbitration Committee and click on "email this user" on the left side of the page. You'll get an email screen, and when you click send, it will go directly to the Arbitration Committee email address. We don't want to miss hearing about your concern. Risker (talk) 04:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

Both out of sincere gratitude and my love of self-referential humor: thank you for you self-labeled "Pollyanna" post. I too agree that these sorts of events expose ways our system can (and will) be improved, and I'm glad that optimism is shared by someone who knows Misplaced Pages well. --Alecmconroy (talk) 06:28, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, also, for trying to calm the storm. –xeno 18:29, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, both of you, for dropping by. It's reassuring to know that every once in a while somebody hears my voice in the wilderness. :-) Risker (talk) 18:57, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Just a note

take a moment to recognise another editor who's made a difference today, or perhaps made a thought-provoking comment. You do some damn fine work around here. It's a pleasure and an honor to have met you. All my best. — Ched : ? 20:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

diff ;) — Ched : ? 20:24, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Ched, your kind words mean a lot to me, and I appreciate that you've picked up the torch and run with it. Good on you. :-) Risker (talk) 04:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Break
A former arbitrator told me once that too much dispute resolution was soul-destroying. I'm going to be spending a short time clearing off my real-world desks and replenishing my soul, soothing my hopeful heart. I'd started to this a few weeks ago and got rudely interrupted, so I'm going to try this again. It may take me a while to respond to any messages left here, and the same for any emails. Risker (talk) 02:27, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Any time for another article review?

I've just re-written space debris and I was wondering if I might get your eyes on it? It's long... Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:18, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

RFC/USER discussion concerning you

Hello, Risker. Please be aware that a request for comments has been filed concerning your conduct on Misplaced Pages. The RFC entry can be found by your name in this list, and the actual discussion can be found at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Bishonen 4, where you may want to participate. Ottava Rima (talk) 04:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I heard a rumor that some folks like hats ...

Some people need "hats" for what they do. Putting out fires can be difficult

As you may have missed your big opportunity... I award you cupcakes anyway!!! You deserve them - for all you do, for all you endure. KillerChihuahuaAdvice 23:25, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Cupcakes on one side of the page, beefcake on the other. What more could a girl ask for? Thanks to both of you! Risker (talk) 04:23, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Cupcakes???

Sneaks in looking to get a snack Oh hi, Risker! Enjoying your break? :) SirFozzie (talk) 04:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Leave my cupcakes alone, SirFozzie. And, so far, it hasn't been much of a break. I step away for a minute and, well... Risker (talk) 04:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

"There is nothing to resolve here."

Per RfC/U, I will attempt to resolve this -

1. Could you please state when you knew of Geogre being Utgard Loki.

2. Could you please state why you defended him during various edit wars.

3. Could you please state why you joined up with both of them at various ArbCom pages, FAR pages, and other discussions and defended his argument during times that there was a sock puppet present.

4. Could you please state why you claimed that you feel that he did nothing wrong when you did realize that the two were the same, when it was clear that there was a long combative history with the user in which many practices, including edit warring and incivility, happened with you in the discussion over the period of a year.

5. Could you please explain why your response to Yellow Monkey was never a true admittance of the relationship and you failed to comment when both Geogre and Utgard Loki appeared on your talk page posing as separate people.

6. Could you please explain why your statement regarding this directly contradicted many of the facts, especially when you claim that you never benefited when you were party to many discussions that did benefit from the extra consensus.

7. Could you please resign from ArbCom for this severe breach of trust and not notifying the Arbitration committee of this during many incidents involving the matter.

Thank you. Ottava Rima (talk) 14:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

That's just a whole bucket of wrong, Ottava. I request you resign from Wikpedia for perpetuating endless drama and demanding unreasonable amounts of attention be directed at you. Of course I don't think you'll do it, and I would never seriously request or demand someone resign from anything, but this is another of your ridiculous campaigns that add absolutely no quality to how things will be fixed or run in the future.
Other editors may be woefully unable for their various reasons to add to content (and yes, they should be embarrassed), but you can add to content and you choose to do this instead. I recognize the primary complaint that admins abuse their power from various users, but I have recently come to recognize that the complainants themselves have responsibilities. If admins are unable to behave themselves, that gives no right to editors to meet that level of misbehavior and ratchet it up. Model what you would like to see, Ottava. If this is it, then holy Christ, what a nightmare of a culture you perpetuate. I want none of it. Should it spread all over Misplaced Pages, I foresee a day when someone on their high white horse demands my resignation from...whatever it is I do...for not telling you to STFU and get to work adding content already. When did you notice Ottava Rima was a bully who is so narrowly focused on his individual agenda that review processes (topic banning a user from FAC), site governance (above), and a general collaborative atmosphere were consistently compromised, Moni? Why didn't you say anything about it, Moni?
So to pre-empt that, here's my voice at least telling you to cut it out. Look at what these little societies do to us. We get so wrapped up in them and so focused on our individual places within them that we do not step outside and shift perspectives. Your sole power is in constructing content, Ottava, but you are convinced your place in the scheme of editors, admins, and arbs is so worth defending that you neglect your true purpose here to chase this. It's not. Your place is nothing. This society is nothing. It is fleeting and ephemeral. No matter how you force your self-importance on others, that will not change. --Moni3 (talk) 14:49, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Moni, do you think her aiding in the actions of a sock puppet and making misleading comments at ArbCom about her relationship with Geogre are appropriate? If you say yes, then I will leave Misplaced Pages. She aided in a year long harassment campaign against me that used socks to fake consensus and cause abuse. Do you know how much disruption that caused? How many lost hours? How many pages were destroyed because of what she aided? And does Risker feel remorse? I would really like to know if she does. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:41, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I haven't been able to follow any of this stuff, but there is certainly (and incredibly) a ridiculous amount of drama going on here that may or may not be related to what you guys are saying above. I was actually told that there is a lot of trouble with the administrators on Misplaced Pages before I wrote an article about the Oath Keepers. I can't see the "big picture" so this may just be the sensationalist side of the governance of Misplaced Pages. Anyhow, I'm writing an article about Misplaced Pages administrators here (and working on giving it a worldview, encompassing all the language-versions of Misplaced Pages): User:Varks Spira/Wikipedia administrator. Cheers, Varks Spira (talk) 16:26, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Post script: If you (I'm addressing anyone) know of any editors who are fluent in another language could you please ask them to collect sources about Misplaced Pages administrators in other languages and then incorporate them into my article? That would be very helpful and impressive. I've seen it done in other articles, using sources in another language. Varks Spira (talk) 16:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

OR, if I jumped up and down and demanded you leave Misplaced Pages for my self-righteous reasons I doubt you would.

It's a simple concept: model what you want to see. Firmly correct those who seek to harm content. You get attacked by childish idiots because you are speaking their language for God's sake, fairly beckoning them like Sirens to Odysseus. You lost your own hours engaging them.

If Risker, one of the few arbs with whom I have a modicum of familiarity, actually resigns, what will be your next goal? Will it make you happy? Will it allow you to concentrate on your next article or GA review? Or will it, as I suspect, become inconsequential and simply a long-forgotten memory on your way to achieving a vague moral ideal which you have not defined, but which primarily consists of the other editors not opposing you? --Moni3 (talk) 16:30, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
"demanded you leave Misplaced Pages for my self-righteous reasons" - I didn't demand for her to leave. I asked her to resign for ArbCom for being involved in Arbitration that had sock puppets cause problems and disrupt consensus along with making misleading comments about not knowing of any possible abuse by Geogre even though there was clear evidence of her defending Geogre while he was making said abuse. Casliber resigned for far, far less. And yes, having those like Bishonen and Risker no longer in positions of authority will help me edit because I am constantly being harassed by people they are connected to, with edit warring, attacks on pages, etc. These people continue (along with Bishonen doing the same) because they feel that they are defended by these two individuals. Thus, they are facilitating more corruption while it has already been demonstrated that they facilitated it before. This is problematic and damaging to Misplaced Pages as a whole. Moni3 - these people falsified claims in order to provoke destructions of multiple articles and pushed for multiple ban attempts against me built on a bed of lies. That is incredibly destructive. They have also gamed WP:FAC and WP:FAR. That is something I do not appreciate. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Hold on just a cotton-picking minute here: What is this balderdash, Ottava? And why the heck are you spreading your nonsense on this page? The "bed of lies" is your own, not mine. The onus of proof of malfeasance is completely on you; I have already been involved in dispute resolution in respect of this matter, and my explanation has been accepted by the Arbitration Committee. The case doesn't get to be retried because you're still ticked off about something that's already been addressed. I have had personal communication with YellowMonkey, who has also accepted my explanation.
Ottava, Geogre didn't harass you, he challenged you, and he is one of the few people to have bothered to do it. Most of us just walk away, knowing it will mean days, even weeks of wasted time and energy. In fact, I walked away from anything relating to you eons ago. You have no beef with me, you have a beef with someone who hasn't edited in two months and is unlikely ever to return. Your arguments are fabricated, unsupported, and assume bad faith to the point that I am surprised that Misplaced Pages hasn't taken the same steps that Misplaced Pages Review took some time ago in respect of you.
It is clear that you have no desire to resolve anything with anyone, Ottava Rima, only to perpetuate drama and hostility. You were unblocked to work on content, and here you are perpetuating exactly the behaviour you were just blocked for. You have badly abused the good faith of several other editors in your behaviour in this and many other disputes. Your continued pursuit of matters that have already been addressed by dispute resolution are unacceptable and not in the best interests of the encyclopedia, which is the primary reason that we are here. Disagreeing with you is not harmful to the encyclopedia, Ottava. Your moral outrage is out of place. As you have made it clear that you see only one satisfactory resolution to a problem that you cannot even bother to demonstrate exists, I have absolutely no intention of discussing this matter further with you. The dispute resolution system has already been implemented, a decision has been made, and it's time for you to get over it. Hyperbole, lack of perspective, unfulfilled desire for revenge, and overblown self-importance on your part do not mean malfeasance on my part.
No further posts to this page, please, Ottava Rima, now that you have made it clear you have no desire to resolve any issues; I will be removing further posts and will have no problems with other editors also removing them. If you have a question relating to a specific arbitration matter, post it in the body of that matter; if it is something directed specifically to me about that matter, ask a clerk to advise me. I have eschewed interaction with you for a very long time and I intend to keep it that way. Risker (talk) 18:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)