Misplaced Pages

Voting System FAR

I have nominated Voting system for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Feinoha 21:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. v. Williams

On October 9, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. v. Williams, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (see the pageview stats) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Swedish language refs

You had a go at trying to identify reference improvements for Swedish language recently, but I think your methods were somewhat blunt. I'm not against bolstering the referencing overall, but I think templates are really not the best way to deal with this. I believe it would be much better if you brought up in detail on the talkpage what you'd like to see improved.

Peter 21:16, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

OK. Have had horrible success in the past bringing up such on article talk pages, so I think I will skip it. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 21:32, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure you wouldn't reconsider? I don't know what experiences you've had here, but I've always preferred proper discussion over anonymous and difficult-to-interpret template insertion. Dialogue is so much better to understand exactly what is or isn't required.

Peter 07:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks but no. When an article is an FA, bringing up criticism on the talk page often brings attack and abuse. They are not like regular article talk pages when constructive suggestions are taken seriously. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 11:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Goya

Mattisse I have an FAC I would very much like you to look at. A careful, detailed review from you would be appreciated. I would relish the challenge of going up against your scalpels, I think it would lead to a much improved artice. Ceoil (talk) 13:19, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I would be happy to go through it, though having no expert knowledge on Goya. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 14:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

"Commenting" class

(moved to monitoring page User:Mattisse/Monitoring#.22Commenting.22_class. This page is not for comments to my mentors/advisors. It is not a place to discuss me in the third person. Please supply specific diffs for all complaints. Per the arbitration decision, monitoring should concentrate recent behavior and not rehash old incidents. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 17:48, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Raven Ridge

On October 13, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Raven Ridge, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

John Carter & Mattisse's Mentors.

(moved inappropriate comment to monitoring page User:Mattisse/Monitoring#John_Carter_.26_Mattisse.27s_Mentors. —mattisse (Talk) 20:05, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Mattisse, it was not an "inappropriate comment." Giano has every right to be frustrated with his name being dredged up in nearly every discussion someone attempts about your behavior. And your continual removal of his posts to the monitoring page isn't helpful either. He's made it clear he doesn't want his name associated with that page. UnitAnode 20:09, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I do not believe I have raised Giano's name. If he has a beef with another editor, he should take it to that editor's talk page. I have previously requested that Giano not post here, and respectfully ask that he honor that request. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 20:16, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you really denying that you brought Giano and Bishonen's names into this? Seriously? UnitAnode 20:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

And the primary reason he couldn't post on my page is that I explicitly requested it up front. As an admin, I guess he gives my requests more credit than he does those of Mattisse, who indicates that she had previously asked him to stay of her page. John Carter (talk) 20:40, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Not the right place, seriously. Find your source material somewhere else. --Moni3 (talk) 19:54, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

And not a good place for advertising.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:55, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Links as opposed to body of comments from other pages

There is a good point that maybe just including links to comments on other pages, as opposed to the whole body of infmoration from those pages, would work just as well. It would probably decrease the heat on the monitoring page, because of the extra work involved in seeing the comments and by not displaying any "hot button" words on the page, and also make the page a lot shorter and easier to store in a single archive. Thinking down the road here, in the future, any new editor seeing a lot of archived pages there might react by thinking "Holy $&!*?! How bad is this woman?!" where one archive page wouldn't give that impression. John Carter (talk) 22:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Johnny Test and List of Johnny Test characters

I thought I'd bring these to your attention as there is alot going on here. I would make drastic changes, but I've already cause quite a stur as it is. Sarujo (talk) 22:05, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry but I am unable to do any copy editing anymore. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 22:19, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Possible DYKs

Just thought you might like to know. There are about 14000 works with at least the word "encyclopedia" prominently included in the public domain available at Google scholar here. John Carter (talk) 23:14, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I am a little at a loss how to turn an encyclopedia into a dyk. Any hints as to how to do it? Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 23:28, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, obviously, you can't. But each of those sources is at this point public domain. Which means, in the worst case scenario, you could take the content word for word from any one of the and add it to our article on the subject, if we have one. Like I've said elsewhere, we are missing a lot of articles, particularly about the non-English speaking world. And a lot of others are in fairly poor shape, Stubs and the like. With this, you could probably turn at least half of the articles which are basically "historic" in nature into real articles, by just adding the material from these sources. I was looking at one of the public domain books on the papacy, actually. About half of the articles we have on individual popes are right now stubs. With what in the public domain, considering history doesn't change that much over time, I think we could probably turn almost all of them into at least good C class articles. That's just one area I was noticing today, but there would be any number of others as well. Any state or country, I think I saw an encyclopedia of Virginia in there?, would welcome content regarding its historical political and cultural leaders, and improvement to the articles on its localities. Basically, find any subject that isn't too current that you find an interest in, use those sources and some other, more current ones, which you could probably get off the net, and I think you could probably turn virtually anything you wanted to into at least a good DYK, if you used multiple sources from there probably even at least a C class. And we've only got about 1 or 2 million stubs as we speak right now, so I think if you wanted to there would be more than enough to keep one occupied and keeping the DYK secton full for at least a few weeks, maybe even a few months. I guess it depends on how fast you can type. :) John Carter (talk) 23:44, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Even if material is in the public domain, it must either be quoted or rewritten in one's own words. Therefore, I only write articles on subjects that I know enough about, or can figure out, to write from scratch. I am not interested in doing an article otherwise. If you look at my dyk's or my article creations, you will see that they cover a wide range of topics, many weighted toward third world topics. But with each, I started with an interest in the topic. I have created hundreds of articles, almost all still basically in their original state, although some have undergone name changes. I no longer believe in the concept of Misplaced Pages as an encyclopedia, which basically means I can only write articles on subjects that I am driven to learn about. My ability to copy edit has diminished also. I used to be able to copy edit any article on any topic for the joy of copy editing. Now I have to be motivated by a genuine interest in the topic, and cannot do it as "for Wiki hire" so to speak. Meaning, I am not willing to copy edit upon demand like I used to do. There was one editor who regularly copy/pasted my edits from his user space into his own article in the main space. After a while, I refused to copy edit his FACs any more, which caused a brouhaha. I think I was being regarded as a copy edit work horse. I'm no longer willing to do that. However, I appreciate your suggestions, as I would love to feel about Misplaced Pages as I did in the olden days when I really cared and believed in it. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 00:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't doubt you. That's why I said find a subject that interests you up front. But there are so many subjects out there. For all I know, as a slight opera fan, I could probably put together about 30 to 40 articles on the more notable performers of Wotan in Wagner's Ring cycle on the basis of the material there. And I think most people would consider that a fairly minor topic. If nothing else, you might consider just paging through JSTOR, Google books or Google scholar and see if there are any subjects that aren't covered very well that you find interesting. We could use all of it, believe me. Anyway, if there are any subjects in there that do interest you, I think everyone would be more than happy to see you add whatever you wanted to from them. User:Himalayan Explorer, like I've said before, is one of our leaders in developing content from less-well-covered areas, and I'm sure if you wanted to help develop some content regarding such areas, I think he would have even more sources which could be used. John Carter (talk) 00:25, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with John Carter. In fact I'd go further - find a topic you really, irrespective of whether it's covered already; there are always gaps to be filled. It's struck me a few times that much of your work at WP has been helping others - it's time to do something just for your own satisfaction. --Philcha (talk) 06:05, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

That is what I have been doing lately with the dyk's. I have no desire to put substantial work into anything for Misplaced Pages again at this point. It is easier to do dyk's than to copy edit someone else's article. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 11:57, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

"Clarification" at ArbCom

I think you should give yourself to think calmly and then probably edit Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Statement_by_Mattisse, which I think you wrote while upset and confused (not unreasonably). While Moni3 has sometimes be critical of your conduct, she has consistently been constructive, all the way back to the early mentoring proposals during your ArbCom. While I disagree with Moni3 about many specific issues, I respect her determination to find ways of making progress. Recently Moni3 was the first to suggested a more structured format, some variation of which should remove the free-for-alls that have been confusing for you and for all those whose are trying to help you. If we can agree a business-like format that gets issues resolved clearly and usually quickly and then such a proposal gets ArbCom's blessing, free-for-alls should be very rare and possibly result in severe warnings for those who cause them. In short, I think Moni3's referral to ArbCom and her short-term lock on the monitoring page will be helpful to you. --Philcha (talk) 17:03, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

• Moni3 did make a good suggestion, which my monitors/advisers adapted yesterday and on which we were working. However, Moni3 has also personally attacked me and refused to retract when asked by another admin. I cannot trust her. Things are unstable enough without an admin like that involved, taking sides, and locking down my user space page. That is an abuse of admin tools. —mattisse (Talk) 17:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Concerns

As the monitoring page is locked down and Arbcom considers whether to help structure the page more properly, I am putting concerns here in the hopes that mentors will step in. These comments contain inappropriate content -> speculation on motivations of other editors, and making accusing/deragatory comments about another user without diffs. Mentors, please discuss with Mattissee whether these comments were appropriate. I'd appreciate if this could be done in a public forum - here, or somewhere else with a link provided. Karanacs (talk) 17:30, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

O.K. I will go through all of SandyGeorgia's edits and post here diffs registering her dissatisfaction. As far as you second point, where did arbcom give SandyGeogria any feedback that she had enhanced influence over what happens to me after arbcom ended or that she has special input into the monitoring? I though it was clear by the arbitration outcome that she did not. Please provide diffs showing that she does. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 17:44, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

In the interests of further clarity, these are the particular sentences I found problematic:

• Moni3 has no right to lock down my user page because SandyGeorgia is not getting her way --> implying that a) Moni was acting on Sandy's behalf and b) that SandyGeorgia is upset for not getting her way (both are about motivations of other users, and both show a failure to assume good faith)
• ArbCom gave no rights regarding my mentoring, but rather tended to disregard her suggestions -> no diffs on "tended to disregard her suggestions"; the current phrasing appears to me an attempt to discredit a user, and for this a diff should be necessary.

Thank you. Karanacs (talk) 17:48, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

The post discredits the user only if that user believes he or she has special rights. Otherwise, it is just a statement of fact.

The only editor that continually and insistently posted after the page was cleared was SandyGeorgia (and Moni3).(See page edit history ) Not one other editor was posting after the page was cleared yesterday. So the page was locked down to prevent the removal of SandyGeorgia's posts. It was very discouraging to see the "discussions" resume after my mentors/advisers and I had decided that the page could not continue that way. To have SandyGeorgia repeatedly posting, and Moni3 "explaining" to SandyGeorgia on the page was exactly what we wanted to eliminate. I removed SandyGeorgia's repeated post to the editorial comment page. Look at the edit history of the page to see if anyone other than SandyGeorgia was making posts. —mattisse (Talk) 18:00, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

• I will collect SandyGeorgia's suggestions from the arbitration and we can count how many were accepted. Is that fair? It is difficult to proof the absence of something. —mattisse (Talk) 18:14, 14 October 2009 (UTC)