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Revision as of 02:01, 21 October 2009 editMiszaBot I (talk | contribs)234,552 editsm Archiving 2 thread(s) (older than 60d) to Talk:Che Guevara/Archive 20.← Previous edit Revision as of 03:40, 21 October 2009 edit undoRedthoreau (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers23,540 edits + maintained tagNext edit →
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To-do list for Che Guevara: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2011-02-08

(When an item is complete, just delete it)

  • Content
  • Incorporate and evenly blend the 3 major Guevara biographies: (1) Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee Anderson (2) Companero: The Life and Death of Che Guevara by Jorge G. Castaneda (3) Guevara, Also Known as Che by Paco Ignacio Taibo II.
  • Formatting of references; see Talk:Che Guevara/Archive 19#Citation formatting
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"Spanish and Basque descendent"

Resolved

In the article it is said that: "Ernesto Guevara was born to Celia de la Serna and Ernesto Guevara Lynch on June 14, 1928 in Rosario, Argentina, the eldest of five children in a family of Spanish, Basque and Irish descent."

I think it is redundant to say that is Spanish and Basque descendent, since the Basque country is a "Comunidad Autonoma" inside Spain. With only one of the terms (Spanish/Basque) would be clearer. Furthermore, the source of the reference is not given, so his basque ascendency is not demonstrated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.117.145.84 (talk) 10:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

IP 163, your post raises several issues. Your average Basque citizen of Euskal Herria would not describe themselves or view themselves as "Spanish" (not to mention that the Basque country extends into France). The utilized ref points out that:

"Che's last name "Guevara" derives from the Castilianized form of the Basque "Gebara", a habitational name from the province of Álava."

Thus Che's primary last name (Guevara) is Basque, his father's second last name (Lynch) is Irish and his mother's last name (de la Serna) is Spanish. Hence he is described as being of Spanish, Basque, and Irish descent. Is it your contention that “Basque” does not merit a separate distinction from Spanish, or are you disputing the fact that Guevara has any Basque ancestry? (a point acknowledged by Che's father himself)   Redthoreau (talk)RT 23:24, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree, keep both in; and I like your explanation.Allgoodnamesalreadytaken (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC).
I agree with Redthoreau, keep the Basque reference. Basque is not currently a nationality but a distinct ethnicity or cultural heritage. I would treat this as, for example, the Sean Connery entry, which calls him Scottish in the opening sentence despite Scotland being part of the United Kingdom.Yooper2bee (talk) 11:57, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree as well. You might as well say Frisians are Dutch if your going to call the Basque Spanish. --Mike Oosting (talk) 19:24, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
I am marking this matter as resolved per above consensus.   Redthoreau (talk)RT 10:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Christ-like

I suggest deleting these words: "described by Almudevar of the San Francisco Chronicle as "Christ-like"". Reason: undue weight on a comment by one reporter. If there are other sources also calling him something similar, however, it might be OK to keep this. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 16:01, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Any bearded man, beaten down (probably wounded), malnourished in some sort of serene state can be said to be "Christ-like", since this is the physical aspects most people extract from iconic representations o Christ, especially the most "popular" one of Christ on the cross. --89.152.177.195 (talk) 05:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your comment, but it's not clear to me whether you support or oppose deleting "Christ-like". In any case, what you express seems to be your own opinion; the article has to be based on material from published sources. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 12:40, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Copper & IP89, I have gone ahead and expanded the description with an additional reliable reference and position of a more notable individual. I hope this alleviates your initial concern Copper, if it does not - then please include your further concerns.   Redthoreau (talk)RT 10:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention the undue positive connotation of the term. Allgoodnamesalreadytaken (talk)

I agree it's a positive connotation. "Undue" sounds like an allusion to WP:UNDUE. I'm not convinced it's undue in that sense. I think a lot of very positive material has been written about Che. Redthoreau would be able to comment more authoritatively on that. Now that an additional reference has been provided, I think it's OK to leave the reference to "Christ-like" in. It's a balance: we've left out the stuff about him hugging lepers, etc.; such other positive material adds, in a sense, to the weight of this: that is, we select a certain amount of positive information to be representative of all the positive information written about him. Similarly for the negative. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 16:56, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

To many "Marios"

Resolved

The executioner was Mario Terán, a half-drunken sergeant in the Bolivian army who had requested to shoot Che based on the fact that three of his friends named "Mario" from B Company,.. should be corrected or at least made clear that all three were named "Mario" and all form B Company... --89.152.177.195 (talk) 05:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I have fixed the above matter.   Redthoreau (talk)RT 10:00, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Excellent article

As someone who has read many books on Che Guevara, I must say that I am very impressed with this article. It is obvious that the editors who compiled it have researched the subject well. Bravo. 66.229.231.189 (talk) 04:35, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

+1 on the enthusiasm. Can't claim to be an expert on him, but have just read the entire article in one go. Well done, Wikipedians. --84.44.248.179 (talk) 08:29, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

9 bullet wounds ?

Quote from this article:

In all Guevara was shot nine times. This included five times in the legs, once in the right shoulder and arm, once in the chest, and finally in the throat.

Photos in Misplaced Pages show this is nonsense. Where is the evidence of the nine entry wounds? 75.19.40.173 (talk) 18:52, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

IP 75, the statement is referenced, and the fact of multiple bullet wounds is noted in all biographies. You simply looking at a post-mortem photo on Misplaced Pages (nearly all of which were taken the day after upon public presentation in Vallegrande - after the body was cleaned, drained, embalmed etc) would be considered WP:OR and not relevant for Misplaced Pages. Do you have a published WP:RS that calls into question the amount of bullet wounds which we could investigate?   Redthoreau (talk)RT 21:03, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Coverstory/execution

Forgive me if this is already addressed, I was just skimming thru the article and may have missed it. However while it's apparent from the article that the government planned to claim that Guevara had been killed in action during a clash with the Bolivian army it's not clear if this was the actual story they released and if it was, how the truth was uncovered. From the refs, it's apparent it's been known since 1970 at least Nil Einne (talk) 16:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

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