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	Rumi was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result March 19, 2006 Peer review Reviewed August 11, 2006 WikiProject peer review Reviewed April 17, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

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A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on September 30, 2007.

Archives
Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in an archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. Baristarim 23:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC) Archives: Archive 1 - Archived on December 7, 2006 Archive 2 - Archived on January 9, 2008 Archive 3 - Archived on March 7, 2009

Maulana jalaledin mohamad Balkhi is an Afghan

maulana was born in balkh province of Afghanistan and it,s a fact. please don,t waste your time to say he,s an Iranian poet or a Turkey!it,s very clear that we deal with a enormous cultural invasion so Iran and turkey wants to use these situations of Afghanistan to prove their benefits but who love Maulana and his poems must say or write that. Maulana one of the greatest poets of the world was burn in balkh province of Afghanistan. thise sentences will end the claims of Iranian and turkish and all people around the world .hosinmokhtary@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hosinmokhtary (talk • contribs) 12:11, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, he was born in contemporary Afghanistan, we note that in the introduction. The nations known as Afghanistan, Iran, and so forth are (relatively) new nations. Both Afghanistan, Iran, and other nations, share their heritage in the Persian empire and culture. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 20:05, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks PI, but I think the user meant something different. Going by the historical meaning of the word "Afghan", Mowlana was - of course - not an Afghan. See Afghan for more information. Afghanistan as a modern nation was created in 1919, 700 years after Mowlana. Tajik (talk) 20:42, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Maulana is born in Balkh which is a province of Afghnistan. Please edit the parts where it is being claimed that he is an Iranian. Yosuf-Haydary 04april2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yosuf-haydary (talk • contribs) 16:22, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

It never states even once that he is Iranian from what I can see. It states he is Persian: Tajiks for example are considered Persian. The modern states of Afghanistan and Iran did not exist at this time, so we must base this on ethnic or linguistic definitions. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 00:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

How ironic!!!!!, this debate is contrary to the very teachings of Rumi, why do we need to associate him where he came from or where died, his words are what is most important and everything else is not relevant,,,,,afghan,,,iranian or turkish, does not matter,,,,,,Saalim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.130.112.88 (talk) 09:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

By the way Pashtun Ismailiyya, Iran as a country did exist back then, but of course its borders have changed over time. Balkh was part of the Iranian nation back then and would have been no different to a person from Shiraz or Esfahan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.5.148 (talk) 13:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Please refrain from such useless troll-like pointers, if there's an official claim against his 'citizenship', it should be quoted with solid references rather than expressing your own point-of-view. Thanks.hameed (talk) 12:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Date sources?

There are a number of exact dates quoted in this article, but they are not sourced, and neither is the dating system clarified... if anyone can help with this, that would be great. I've seen other exact dates, and different ones, quoted elsewhere on the internet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whitestarlion (talk • contribs) 19:39, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Turkish banknote

Two days ago, I added a short sentence mentioning the fact that Rumi was depicted on the reverse of the Turkish 5000 lira banknotes of 1981-1994. — The edit was blindly reverted by Nepaheshgar (edit summary: irrelevant).

In my opinion, the fact that the Turkish government considers Rumi as having enough symbolic significance to depict him in its currency is interesting to our readership, and worthy of mention in a single, short sentence.

In general, a government's decision to showcase an individual as a symbol of a country's culture and historical heritage (for that is what the banknote depiction connotes) is quite interesting. This is especially true in the case of Turkey, which up to that time had not depicted specific persons in its currency (with the exceptions of Ataturk & İsmet İnönü, the Republic's presidents). When the Turkish Bank decided to depict individuals, from all possible candidates they chose four: the author of the national anthem, Mehmed II, Sinan and Rumi. – To be honest, I cannot understand why this fact wouldn't belong in the article, especially when just above of where I introduced the sentence a mention of MySpace is deemed worthy of inclusion. - Best, Ev (talk) 18:20, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

This is extremely noteworthy. I will support you if you put it in. The reason you were reverted is because there are many edits done in bad faith to try to change Rumi's ethnicity, Nepaheshgar is a good editor and meant no harm. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 23:36, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid that I reintroduced the sentence at the same time I wrote the above comment. I know I should have waited for this discussion to take place, but sometimes blind reverts reduce my patience. My apologies. - Regards, Ev (talk) 00:46, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I am against all this banknote stuff. Please stop this and try to understand "Misplaced Pages is an encyclopaedia". According to Examples your banknotes appear to "belong to trivia section", and according to WP:TRIV "Trivia sections should be avoided." I strongly oppose your addition of picture of banknotes to Misplaced Pages. Please remove what you added.--Xashaiar (talk) 16:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Xashaiar, do you ever read the links you provide ? As its title implies, the Trivia sections guideline deals with the creation of separate trivia sections whithin articles, like the trivia section in our article on Pretoria. Of course those sections should be avoided. – Notice however that I did not add to this article a "Trivia" section with a "list of miscellaneous facts", but only a single noteworthy fact (whose relevance I argue above), and to the section I deemed appropriate. Moreover, the "Example" section of the Trivia sections guideline you are citing clearly states that "he facts themselves are not the issue here: the problem is with their organization" (emphasis mine). - Ev (talk) 17:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

You do not understand my point. Banknote provides no or unimportant information. That's it. If you click around in the page I posted you see kind of definition: "Trivia is broadly defined as information that is not important." and I wrongly assumed that after seeing some examples you will understand that mentioning banknotes should be avoided. Also regarding your last sentence: no body is saying that there is no banknote with picture of Rumi on it, but I am saying SO WHAST?--Xashaiar (talk) 19:16, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Xashaiar, those examples you wanted me to see are interesting facts that are all currently mentioned in the article in question. The whole point of that "Example" section is to indicate how to organize noteworthy information within articles, instead of listing it randomly in a trivia section. – If you are comparing a mention of the banknote in this article with those facts about James Monroe, it is quite evident that the banknote should be mentioned here.

In any case, above I argue that, far from being unimportant information, mentioning the banknote helps to convey to our readership the significance attributed to Rumi in modern Turkey. - Regards, Ev (talk) 20:00, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

In my opinion that's not significant at all.--Xashaiar (talk) 20:25, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's significant either. But it's fine as an image with a caption. That said, the image shouldn't be in the middle of the page by itself. It should be embedded with a paragraph like all the other images, so I moved it to the right of the next paragraph. --Kurdo777 (talk) 01:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

For comparison, the articles on the following individuals currently mention similar depictions in currency:

• George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Alexander Hamilton, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant & Benjamin Franklin.
• Except for Elizabeth II, all other 29 individuals included in Category:People illustrated on sterling banknotes mention those depictions, including: Alexander Graham Bell, Robert Burns, Charles Dickens, Michael Faraday, Alexander Fleming, David Livingstone, Isaac Newton, Florence Nightingale, Robert I of Scotland, Walter Scott, Adam Smith, George Stephenson, Robert Louis Stevenson, the Duke of Wellington, Christopher Wren and the featured articles on Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and Charles Darwin. In the case of William Shakespeare, the mention is done in the "Memorials to William Shakespeare" sub-article.
• Some examples of literary figures: Antoine de Saint Exupéry (France), Banjo Paterson (Australia), Selma Lagerlöf (Swedish Nobel Prize), Elias Lönnrot (Finland), Taras Shevchenko (Ukraine), Mihai Eminescu (Romania), Henryk Sienkiewicz (Polish Nobel Prize), Turlough Carolan (Ireland), Annette von Droste-Hülshoff (Germany), Marko Marulić and Ivan Gundulić (Croatia), Jonathan Swift and the featured articles on James Joyce & William Butler Yeats.

These examples demonstrate that, in general, Misplaced Pages deems such depictions noteworthy. In view of this clearly attested general practice and my argumentation above, exactly why would that not be the case here ? Why would Rumi's depiction in Turkish currency be deemed "irrelevant" or "not significant at all" for this article ? - Ev (talk) 18:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Criticism

Why is there no criticism section other than the link to external sites? Faro0485 (talk) 02:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

This whole article includes too much Persian/Iranian propaganda; Wherever Rumi is from is totally irrelevant. "Persian richness" and "persian world", stop using universal men as they belong to you, Rumi belongs to whole Islam world, and the interesting thing and humanity. "persian" counts 84 times in this article, whereas Rumi is only three times of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.91.10.119 (talk) 18:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

True. This should either be removed or added with critical points with explicit mention as original research and quoted with correct citations and references. Thanks hameed (talk) 12:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Well..if you take into consideration a person's environment and their experience (emphasis on nurture and NOT nature), as to providing a rich and fostered climate for intellectual growth (or whatever you want to call it) then you will clearly find out why Persia Or Iran is home to many great poets, scholars, scientists, intellectuals, and even a prophet (zartosht)... so why hasn't there been as many from other parts of the same region (Turkey, Arabia)?

I searched for God among the Christians and on the Cross and therein I found Him not.I went into the ancient temples of idolatry; no trace of Him was there.I entered the mountain cave of Hira and then went as far as Qandhar but God I found not.With s...et purpose I fared to the summit of Mount Caucasus and found there only 'anqa's habitation. Then I directed my search to the Kaaba, the resort of old and young; God was not there even.Turning to philosophy I inquired about him from ibn Sina but found Him not within his range. I fared then to the scene of the Prophet's experience of a g...reat divine manifestation only a 'two bow-lengths' distance from him" but God was not there even in that exalted court. Finally,I looked into my own heart and there I saw Him. Rumi

Philosopher

The lead of the article uses the {{Infobox Philosopher}} which is wrong because Rumi was not a Muslim philosopher. (BTW I am the person who wrote the philosophical outlook section in the article; I agree that he had a certain philosophical outlook on some issues but he didn't propound or develop them himself; nor was philosophy a dominant part of his life) Rumi was essentially a mystic poet: he practically experienced God and shared his experience through his poetry. Since there is no Infobox for mystics I suggest that we use the {{Infobox Muslim scholars}} instead. Regards--Shahab (talk) 09:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Persian Origins, Emigrating to Turkey doesn't make him Turk

before I begin, please know that I am fully aware of the works of Rumi and that he is a dissolver of boundaries, one who acknowledged oneness and I do not mean to marginalize him as to being Iranian, because he and his works are a gift to humanity as a whole, but credit should be given to the place and environment to which he was born in (as we all are very much connected and symbolically attached to the places of our birth). And to claim someone as to being from an ethnicity group they are NOT FROM, is an insult and disrespectful to HIS (Persian) people and where he grew up and the culture he was influenced from the beginning of his life.

These Men (Shams and RUmi) would probably laugh at how were arguing over whether he was Iranian, Persian, or Turk because their whole lives was dedicated to shattering any sort of bondage to 'transitory' facts of the "world", or Donya. Ask them where they are from and they will tell you: "We are from The Garden". (Copied from Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.213.240 on Shams discussion).

In the Essential Rumi by Coleman barks (who has studied the works of Rumi professionally since 1976 and has traveled to Konya, Turkey many many times, and has encountered even Turks who admitted Rumi's origins are Persian) writes:

'Persians and Afghanis call Rumi 'Jelaluddin Balkhi.' He was born September 30 1207, in Balkh, Afghanistan (Then Persia; Now Afghanistan) which was part of the Persian empire. The name Rumi means 'from Roman Anatolia.' He was not known by that name, of coarse until after his family, fleeing the threat of invading Mongol armies, emigrated to Konya, Turkeym sometime between 1215 and 1230. His father Bahauddin Walad, was a theologian and jurist from Balkh (then Persian/Zoroastrian dominated region). (The Essential Rumi by Coleman Barks; Reynold Nicholson, A.J Arberry, John Moyne; Sufi Poetry, Persian-Translations into English - 1995; Page- On Rumi- excuse the poor citation style but its all there).

Even though Rumi wrote his works in Konya, it doesnt excuse Turks from claiming him as being Turk, he was born and raised in Persian/Iranian land, was influenced by its people, ate Persian food, read Persian literature, and assimilated with Persian culture, all before emigrating to Turkey. And his life long friend and companion Shams OF TABRIZ was from Persia (and before Turks try claiming people from Tabriz as being of their own, they should first travel to Tabriz and see what the people eat there (iranian food), what literature the people read (persian), and what culture they embrace most--Persian)

This whole argument is beyond the topic, I think Arabs and Turks don't understand that there were civilizations in the region where they are now, and those civilizations (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Persia) existed thousands of years prior to the emergence of their nomadic tribes (Arabs, Turks, Mongols).

They conquered Persian/Iranian/Greater Iranian land, killed off the inhabitants, and imposed their language , and over time populated the region with their own people, and they now claim that the scholars who came from those regions back when it was under Persian rule are from their ethnicity group.

Malawna is from (now AFGHAN; then PERSIA) region, that makes him a PERSIAN (FACT).

His family fled and emigrated to Konya Turkey because of the threat of the invading Mongol armies (FACT; hence he's buried there and I understand Turks love Rumi and Iranians also share that experience, however dont forget before the Mongols, the Turks conquered Central Asia, it was THEN occupied by Persian/Iranian inhabitants (who were consequently and systematically eradicated).

Just one thing to remember, and heres the important fact (not nationalistic nor ethnocentric claim)

PERSIANS/IRANIANS WERE IN THE REGION THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE TURKS/OTTOMON EMPIRE and if I may add, Persians did not commit such horrific acts against people like the Turks, and Mongols and Arabs did. (contemporary example armenian genocide but thats another topic).!

Anyways I was going to say great job to the admins who are protecting the rights and credits of Persian scholars of the past, who seem to be under attack by Turks and Arabs who for some reason think they can go against objective facts made by researchers at Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard who CLEARLY STATE THEY WERE OF PERSIAN ORIGINS.

This topic has already been dealt with extensively. Aside from indulging your inexplicable desire to badmouth Turks (which seems to have reached fever pitch with your bizarre need to mention the Armenian genocide in an article about a Sufi poet) there appears to be no reason to perpetuate this discussion. Does your hot temper keep you warm at night? Szfski (talk) 12:51, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

just one of the many errors in the original article states: "Greater Turkish cultural sphere of Khorasan"... my goodness, can any ignorant person just write an article like this! Rumi, no doubt a Persian, is loved by Arab, Persian & Turks alike.

I have reverted this edit by an anon IP. I think that we all agree that most of it is just vandalism (for example by purposely falsifying translations of the poetry). Tajik (talk) 13:46, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I've reverted User:Nedim Ardoğa because his edit were no improvement (double entry, removing relevant info). Tajik (talk) 15:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Dubious authenticity

The poem which was cited here as a specimen of Rumi's universality Che tadbīr ay muslimānān ke man khwad-rā namīdānam (here translated as "What can I do, Submitters to God? I do not know myself") is of dubious provenance. Nicholson and other compilers looked in vain for it in an early manuscript, leading many to conclude that it was a later accretion. (c.f. Selected Poems from the Dîvâni Shamsi Tabrîz, 1989 no. XXXI by Reynold Nicholson, p. 281.) Including it in an article with encyclopedic aspirations seems ill-advised. Szfski (talk) 17:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Mevlana is a Turk. He has Turk culture. He lived in Konya and died in Konya. ,He isnt İranian or Afgan.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nimesayy (talk • contribs)

Arguing over this without cited reliable third party sources is really pretty pointless. This is an encyclopedia, not a forum. Peter Deer (talk) 21:19, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

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