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Template:WP1.0 Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Birds High‑importance Emperor penguin is part of WikiProject Birds, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative and easy-to-use ornithological resource. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. Please do not substitute this template.BirdsWikipedia:WikiProject BirdsTemplate:WikiProject Birdsbird High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. It is requested that an audio file(s) be included in this article to improve its quality. WikiProject Birds To-do: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Endemic birds of Papua New Guinea (more) Cleanup : Bullfinch • Vesper sparrow • Bird flight • Bird bath (more) Copyedit : Plushcap • Magpie duck • Saker falcon (more) Expand : Phalarope • Nidicolous • Gouldian finch • Cathartes • Cnemophilidae • Avian malaria (more) NPOV : Debeaking • Driven grouse shooting • Abu Dhabi Falcon Hospital (more) Stubs : Cathartiformes • Semiplumbeous hawk • Rainbow-bearded Thornbill • Sunda scops owl (more) Update : Coal tit • Scottish crossbill • New Caledonian lorikeet • Operation Migration (more) Verify : Argus (bird) • Blyth's frogmouth • Nik Borrow • Pytilia • Fregata • Chestnut-headed tesia • Darter • Pallid scops owl • Starling (more) Wikify : Ninox boobook ocellata • The Institute for Bird Populations (more) Other : Add photos to bird articles needing photos (search Flickr for free images). Add taxonomic authorities to genus articles. More outstanding tasks at the project's cleanup listing, Category:Birds articles needing attention, and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Birds/Todo. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Antarctica Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Antarctica, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Antarctica on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AntarcticaWikipedia:WikiProject AntarcticaTemplate:WikiProject AntarcticaAntarctica Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

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Unsorted comments

David Attenborough first discussed the emporer penguins' breeding habits in specific in Episode 2 (Frozen Worlds) of th 1984 BBC documentary The_Living_Planet. That makes 3 references. Erikswedberg (talk) 05:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Why do they travel so far inland to raise their young? -Drue 17:11, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

My understanding from watching March_of_the_Penguins is that they walk all the way to where the ice is the thickest and will not melt with the onset of summer. I remember it being mentioned in the narration that during the summer the ocean is within a few hundred yards of their nesting area. --Chipmunk 03:36, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Is it the male or the male and female that have a brood pouch? Penguins love Antarctica

According to "March of the Penguins", both the male and the female have a pouch. The egg will be passed from the female (shortly after it is hatched (laid, surely!) ) to the male (who will incubate it). The chick will then live in the brood pouch of the male until the female returns with food. The chick will then be transfered to the female.

That movie also asserts that Emperor Penguins mate once a season but each year their mate may change, contradicting the "penguins mate for life" notion. Maybe it's just a movie, but I'm curious who is correct. --feitclub July 5, 2005 21:49 (UTC)

The research article "Why do aptenodytes penguins have high divorce rates?" indicates that only a small proportion of emperor penguins return to the same mate as last year. 68.164.110.144

People think that if you want to you can...

There are various vulgarities and such plaguing the article that I am unable to remove via the edit.

Baby penguin image removed

The article originally contained this image from the movie March of the Penguins. I removed it as a copyvio. Using that image to illustrate an article about the movie is fair use but using it in this article is not. — mendel ☎ 04:40, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Lifespan and lifestyle

The March of the Penguins article says that penguins come of breeding age at 5 years old. How long do they live? And what's the annual cycle of the chicks till they turn 5? - Gyan 02:15:57, 2005-09-10 (UTC)

How tall is the Emperor Penguin?

At the beggining it says "between 1.27 and 1.6m", but in Physical Characteristics it says "adults average 0.75m"

Additionally, www.emperor-penguin.com lists their height as "about 115cm".

1.6m? Likes like close to 5 ft 3 in. Thats taller than my mum! Something is not right, these guys can't grow to be that huge.

There is a diffrence in what the "penguins" on one hand and "emperor penguin" on the other states how tall these creatures are. One states that penguins average at 1.1m and the other 1.3m. I am more inclined to believe 1.1 but am unsure of how large they average

I looked around at sites, and 1.15m is usually what they state as the average height of an emperor penguin -isionous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.83.59.134 (talk) 19:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Penguins start breeding at the age of 7... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Azza95 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Frustratingly, penguins' size ranges often do not specify between length (beak to tail) and height. Best ones I've found: length 100–130 cm (39½–51 in) from The Complete Guide to Antarctic Wildlife: Birds and Marine Mammals of the Antarctic Continent and the Southern Ocean (Shirihai 2002), which is consistent with an average length of 45 in (114 cm) given elswhere; and height 80–100 cm (31½–39½ in) from The Encyclopedia of Birds of the World of Animals series (1985), which seems consistent at least with this and seems certainly more agreeable than the 120+ cm claims while standing next to people. Of course, height is an unusual measurement to be taken for birds – not to mention difficult to determine accurately – so unspecified figures in ornithological literature are likely to represent length. --Anshelm '77 (talk) 22:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

English units

I added English units to various parts of the article. I'm not a big fan of the antiquated system of measurement, but the fact is that a large part of the English-speaking world understands "1 pound" much better than "450 grams." (Besides which: where does the suspiciously non-round "450 grams" number for the egg weight come from? I bet someone read that the egg was a pound and thus translated it into 450 g.)--RattBoy 15:44, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with this. The majority of the world now uses the metric system, including much of the English speaking world. There are only three holdout countries left on the entire planet: United States of America, Liberia, and Myanmar. Although I am from the United States myself, I have no problem with metric units. I believe your ashttp://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Emperor_Penguin&action=edit&section=5

Editing Talk:Emperor Penguin (section) - Misplaced Pages, the 💕sertion that "a large part" of English speakers can't understand what 450 g means, is incorrect. The article also looks awkward with every unit of measure (weight of penguin, height of penguin, etc.) having both kinds of units. =Axlq 16:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with Axlq. While most of what he said is true, wouldn't it look more...I don't know, polictly correct with both? Not sure how to say it, but it would just be better with both in my opinion. Not everyone in america knows the metric system. I still don't get it, and I'm 13. =Dragonryth

I'm from the US also and although I know what the metric system is and how it works, and I can visualize how long a cm or a m would be (and I'd rather use them since I have a thing against fractions), I'd have trouble telling you just how "hot" 28 C is, or how "heavy" 76 kg is. I don't think having the English equivalent units there detracts from the article. Though it would be nice if there was some way to incorporate automatic conversion directly into Misplaced Pages or the article. Where if you clicked on a unit a box would pop up with the conversion. --Chiklit 17:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely with Axlq. Also I feel that I should point out that a large percentage of english wikipedia users are non-native english speakers and are completely unfamiliar with English units, Imperial units or United States customary units85.220.23.200 21:00, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The United States inherited it measurement system from the English, which is why it is referred to as English System of measurement. The English, strangely, converted to the French method of measuring (aka Metric) after they fell from their status of being a World Power. Joe Hepperle (talk) 21:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I disagree completely with Axlq and Chiklit. Rattboy, thanks for adding English Units. Axlq's reference to the 'majority of the world' has no significance here. This is not the 'Majority of The World' Misplaced Pages site, this is the 'English' Misplaced Pages site. Axlq derogatorily wrote, '...There are only three holdout countries...' Whoa Whoa Whoa! Let's back up here. Again, the rest of the world has no significance here. This is the English Misplaced Pages site. And to your sorrow, you'll discover that one of those three 'holdouts' is the country with the Most English Speakers In The Whole Wide World-- The United States Of America. Since the country that has the Mostest, Biggest Amount, Largest, More-Than-Any-Other-Country-In-The-Whole-Wide-World number of English speakers uses English Units of measurement, the English Misplaced Pages should state measurements in English Units. To only state measurements in Metric would be acting 'politically correct' since only a minority of Elitists in the US advocate for Metric only. In school, more than forty years ago, I was told that the US would be all Metric within ten years. We said 'why?' Teacher said, 'Cause it's easier! And the rest of the world already uses it.' We said, 'We're all for 'easier', but isn't the rest of the world supposed to be following our lead? And why would we scrap our perfectly-good-for-centuries English Units? Can't we have both?' For anybody from outside the United States reading this now, we are taught BOTH the English and the Metric system. And guess what? Nobody died over it. We discovered here in the United States that we can figuratively 'walk and chew gum at the same time' (i.e. we can converse both in English Units and in Metric Units). Most of the few number of people advocating for 'Metric only' here in the US are those at the University level who followed the route of High School-Bachelors-Teaching Assistant/Masters Candidate-Doctoral Candidate- Doctorate/Professor route. Notice something missing there? (Hint: Life in the real world). Anyway--- back in my old school days, the teacher was all befuddled. She continued by saying, 'Well wouldn't it be easier if all we had to do was shift the decimal point when we do calculations? Wouldn't that be easier than using our hodgepodge collection of measurements?' She was real confused when I said, 'Hodgepodge? Don't you realize that some of our measurements are in the binary system?' That really confused her so I shared with her by reciting the binary place values, 1,2,4,8,32,64,128 etc Then I said, '1ounce, 2ounces, 4ounces(gill), 8ounces(cup), 16 ounces(pint), 32 ounces(quart), 64 ounces(half gallon), 128 ounces(gallon).' She quit arguing and never used the word 'hodgepodge' again. Now, Axlq, when you came back as your sock-puppet ( 85.220.23.200 ) to agree with yourself you made an additional claim that, '...a large percentage of english wikipedia users are non-native english speakers and are completely unfamiliar with English units...' Even though that claim doesn't pass the smell test, the extreme left side of the Misplaced Pages page is for folks in that category. They could click Here, Here, Here, or any of the many other 'language' versions listed on the left side. Finally, to User Chiklit, on your user page you claim you can speak seven (7) different languages. That is remarkable and very praiseworthy. What an accomplishment! But how can you claim that you can juggle around the vocabularies of seven different languages (and use them!!), but yet you can't remember, '...how 'hot' 28 C is, or how 'heavy' 76 kg is...'? Ending note, just as Hong Kong was able to juggle English language and Chinese language side-by-side and became the immensely successful business and trade center that it was, we here in the US are able to deal with both the English Units and the Metric Units. But the English Units are our 'first language' so to speak. And did I mention that the Country that has the MOST English speaker in the Whole Wide World uses English Units of measure primarily? And did I mention that this is the English Misplaced Pages site? Joe Hepperle (talk) 11:47, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

We generally give both metric and imperial on these sorts of articles, so there is no fuss. Interesting duration of thread. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:25, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Breeding Site

Is there a single breeding site for the whole Emperor Penguin population every year, or many?

Their breeding site is a called a rookery.

That's what I wondered - in fact it's why I came to the wikipedia article. From the narration of the film it would seem there's only one, but as there are supposed to be between 150,000-200,000 breeding pairs (and nowhere near that many in the film) I'm guessing there are many sites. sheridan 05:16, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The linked Emperor Penguin website says "Over forty colonies are known, ranging in size from less than 200 pairs in the Dion Islands to over 50,000 pairs on Coulman Island." Perhaps this fact should be reflected somewhere in the article.--RattBoy 23:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

THANK YOU

The MotP DVD has extra features including a "making of" (which features a couple of French film crew on the ice for most of a year, filming the penguins near the Dumont d'Urville permanent research station) and a National Geographic "Critter Camera" feature on filming diving penguins near the US McMurdo research station. The two locations are about 1000 miles (1600km for RattBoy) apart. It's not clear if the underwater footage in the main MotP film is from the French or the NatGeog teams - I'd suspect the latter, because 2 people is a small team for filming underwater in the tropics, let alone on Antarctic pack ice.

I added a "see also" for the features on the DVD - but as noted below, there are probably ink-on-paper articles from the same source which would be better citations.

Antarctic breeding

"It is the only penguin that breeds during the winter in Antarctica." What about the King Penguin? GrahamBould 12:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Good question. According to our article at King Penguin, it lives (and presumably breeds) on subantarctic islands and temperate islands. I can't find anywhere where we currently list the subantarctic islands, or otherwise define what makes an island subantarctic rather than antarctic, but I think the point the article is making is that only the Emperor Penguin winters and breeds on mainland Antarctica, and it may well be that no other penguin breeds anywhere in Antarctica, mainland or not. Mind you, the sea ice shelf is only land of any sort by a fairly loose definition.

Some clarification would be good of many points here. Andrewa 20:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Antarctica is defined as the land mass and islands south of 60 degrees south. King Penguins do not breed in Antarctica according to this definition; their main breeding grounds are the various sub-Antarctic Islands, the largest of which is South Georgia. There is no universally accepted definition of the term sub-Antarctic; it is somewhat subjective, and depends to some extent on the local climate and perceptions in the nations that have sovereignty over these islands. For example, New Zealand regards the Antipodes Islands as sub-Antarctic; they are actually further from the South Pole than Great Britain is from the North Pole, and no-one calls us sub-Arctic! --APRCooper (talk) 09:10, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Diving behavior

The information on the diving behavior appears to come from one of the National Geographic's additional features on the March of the Penguins DVD. It's under the title of "Crittercam: Emperor Penguin". Probably there was a ink-on-paper article based on the same work. 83.104.55.73 21:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Removed cite needed

After some difficulty finding it, I've removed a citation needed tag from the following paragraph:

These penguins can dive 150 to 250 meters (490-820 feet) into the Southern Ocean. They can venture deeper, the deepest diving on record being 565 m (1870 ft). The longest they can hold their breath when underwater is 20 minutes. Their swimming speed is 6 km to 9 km per hour (4-6 mph), but they can achieve up to 19 km per hour (12 mph) in short bursts. One of their feeding strategies is to dive to about 50 meters, where they can easily spot sub-ice fish Pagothenia borchgrevinki swimming against the under surface of the sea-ice, which they then catch, dive again and repeat the sequence about half a dozen times before surfacing to breathe.

This information is supported by the Crittercam short included with the March of the Penguins DVD, which was already listed under Further reading.

If anyone wants to make it a specific citation, feel free. But it would be a bit out of place IMO. Most of the information in the article doesn't have explicit references at this level. Some articles in Misplaced Pages do have an explicit reference for every factoid, and I think it looks appalling! Most do not. Other encyclopedias do not. But anway, that's a citation if anyone wants to include it, and the justification for removing the cite needed tag. It removes this excellent article from Category:Articles with unsourced statements, where it was a bit out of place. Andrewa 20:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Taller than 2ft.

4ft is what they really are.

-G

No way are they that tall, more like 1m which is only 3ft. Where did this height come from? Mtpaley 20:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

They average about 3-4ft. tall as a mature adult (Rivolier) —Preceding unsigned comment added by T.crawford714 (talk • contribs) 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Breeding temperature.

This is obviously an error, but I don't know which temperature is correct...

In March or April, the penguins start courtship,where they go to court and get married when the temperature can be as low as -40 °C (-40 °F) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Luv tomato (talk • contribs) 18:16, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

Not a mistake. -40 C = -40 F. -39 C = -38.2 F and -41 C = -41.8 F. But at -40 they are exactly the same. Taltamir 02:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

very good infomation #1 Site Misplaced Pages!!!

The Encarta Encyclopedia states that the emperors incubate their eggs at temperatures that reach -60 C. Isn't that more important, if we want to emphasize the extreme conditions they face. Nazroon 05:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

No, we don't want to emphasize anything; we want to display information witjout stressing anything. But something like -40° to -60° would be acceptable and worth mentioning.91.15.235.254 (talk) 13:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Change in Conservation status?

I just read this article, and i think its no longer "least concern", although im not sure what it is now, is it EN for endangered? http://www.enn.com/net.html?id=2035

Polygon 18:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Conservation update

Yeah, I was just wondering why the conservation status was changed

back to what it was before? I 'fixed' it before I registered officially, and I checked my sources. I even left a link where it was supposed to be. Why was it changed back?

BuffaloWilder 05:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Emperor Penguin collab for Jan/Feb 2008 with 3 votes

Nominated November 7, 2007;

Support:

1. Rufous-crowned Sparrow 00:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
2. Corvus coronoides _talk 15:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
3. Jimfbleak (talk) 07:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Comments:

• This is a very well-known bird species, so quite a few people will read this article's page. It has a fascinating life history and has been documented in a few movies (something called March of the Penguins). This would be the first Antartic species collaborated on and (if it passes) could be the first Antartic GA/FA. Highly interesting, well-known bird and it is a penguin. What more could it be? Rufous-crowned Sparrow 00:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
• Can't face passerine yet, and this one doesn't occur in Oz (: Jimfbleak (talk) 07:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Aawwww...Australian Antarctic Territory :) ?

An interesting image for the collaboration; , the website has lots of US gov PD images. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Repeating itself

The article currently repeats itself about the huddling to keep warm, mentioned in both behavio(u)r and breeding. Sabine's Sunbird talk 03:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Repeating itself

The article currently repeats itself about the huddling to keep warm, mentioned in both behavio(u)r and breeding. Sabine's Sunbird talk 03:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The only solution is to change one of the mentions to say that they don't huddle to keep warm. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 06:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I've just been adding some info. There was a large amount of material all over the place which I have begun wading through. We'll get there. ] (] · ]) 07:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Pre-review comments

1. taxobox isn't pink in my browser

   (Me either, and neither is King Penguin)

2. "coloured" but "gray" whose side are you on (: ?

   (OK, I'll make an executive decision..................English English)

3. Description - First sentence of is too long. The description refers to juvenile as singular, but chicks as plural, best to be consistent and do all in singular - also "males and females" could be singular

   (duly split. Have I got all the plurals?)

4. "These dark feathers" - what dark feathers?

   (reworded that whole bit fo flow)

5. "Survival rate" reads as if it applies to the feathers which are the topic of the previous sentence, and I'm unclear why survival rate is description anyway

   (I thought we generally stuck it in description...I'll clarify and we can figure out where to put it later)

6. Vocalization - starts "as they" who? drifts between sing and plural again "Its calls are known for using " = "Its calls use"

   (duly singulised)

7. Adaptation to cold - 40m/s needs us conversion, I'm afraid, is "furthermore" adding anything, still sing/pl wandering

   (duly converted and singulised)

8. Behavior - but "behaviour" in text, also "defense" - you ozzies are so confused (: Its swimming speed - previous sentence referred to those males

   (singulised and britishised - feel free to britishise any words I have missed)

9. Diet - appears to be the silverfish searching for prey?

   (reworded)

10. Predators - does the skua walk very slowly, or is it perhaps a migrant?

    (reworded)

11. It appears to read as if it is the shell rather than the egg which is a fraction of the mother's body weight

    (swapped sentences to remove amibguity)

12. Further reading, could be alphabetical, don't like starting with (1997)

    (I am not fond of Further Reading sections and have removed it for the time being. I am not sure which ones expand beyod the scope of the article)

There are some minor things, such as spacing around ref numbers, and I've fixed a few obvious bits. Generally needs a careful read through to check for consistency and logical flow from one sentence to the next. I've not checked references yet, and I'll give the whole thing a second read through when you are ready. Jimfbleak (talk) 07:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I've started a copyedit, not finished yet, so you might want to check through before I return later. edit summary Jimfbleak (talk) 11:22, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

1. The study of penguin foraging behaviour was revolutionized in 1971, when American Gerry Kooyman published research having attached automatic dive recording devices to Emperor Penguins. Reads oddly to me

(yeah, I am having trouble with that one - see waht you think now and feel free to tweak)

1. ref 4 Should the year be linked? also sci name is italicised on web page

(Pesky ref that. Finally found it.)

1. refs: inconsistent page numbering esp for ranges (p, pp or none) see refs 10, 13,18 for example

(up till now, I had been using p's and pp's in book refs, and no p's for pages in journals. I figured the book refs, especially the ibid-type ones looked a little bare without them. Erm....do you think it still scans ok if all the p's are removed?)

1. refs: inconsistent use of language icons, eg refs 8, 44, also why (English) for ref 4?

(not me - removed...ok, 3 french refs have french icons, English should have none)

1. "external links", "further reading" need to be either alphabetical, or made clearer why not
2. I assume the author really is Robisson? (just checking that it's not a typo)

(Yep. Patrice Robisson is French it looks like)

1. I really don't like the pdf link in ref 10, why not format normally so that title links to webpage

(there isn't a normal webpage, it is a scanned extract from the book in pdf format. I am not sure how we can make it another sort of link with what is available)

I can't see anything else, so I'll leave you to do the necessary Jimfbleak (talk) 13:13, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Just so you know there has been a change in Misplaced Pages:Taxobox_usage#Color, pink is gone! Pro bug catcher (talk • contribs). 14:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Final tweaks: intro talked about colonies of up to a 1000, actually much bigger. the three fr icon needed spaces before rest of ref. Fixed pdf link in ref 10, easy to get url using "bypass pdf download" in the Firefox pdf download add-on (or have I overlooked something here?) I've fixed these, so let's do it!

Good Article nomination

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Jimfbleak (talk) 06:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

OK...towards FAC

Right then. input here what everyone feels is required. I took out some cultural refs which I couldn't ref and may be unable to. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

There were a lot of prose/copyright issues with this, and I think it still needs a careful read through, perhaps by a third person - just now I saw a couple of very minor formatting errors. There seem to be surprisingly few journals cited that have a url link, it's a pity if they do not have a usable web presence, but if they don't, they don't. I've no idea what more is needed in terms of content, my world penguin list consists of one species. Are they likely to be affected, directly or indirectly, by the planned by the likely increase in krill fishing? Jimfbleak (talk) 13:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

• Note to self -need to expand on San Diego breeding and exhibits...also if anywhere else...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I've noticed that you can't find the second captive site for them. says that it isn't in the US. I'll also finish the copyedit tonight (EST). Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

The Zurich Zoo had them in 2001 Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

More evidence!!! Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually some of the photos look like King Penguins, and others list them as such. Need a definitive answer on this...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Sigh. This from the official site says that they are Kings. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 06:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

(deindent) OK, I may have figured it out. This came out a few months after the reference you got saying that they are kept at 2 places. It lists the two as SW- San Diego and SW- Ohio. Since Ohio closed, all of its penguins were moved to other SeaWorlds. I think that the Ohio birds were moved to San Diego, thus leading to the other reference I found saying that San Diego was the only place with them in the US. There are quite a few Kings that people misidentified as Emperors, however. Do you think this is plausible? Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 06:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, browsing through the news articles it appeared as if King Penguins at Edinburgh Zoo, Zurich Zoo and possibly Tokyo Zoo have been mislabelled as Emperors, however teh last may actually have both. Will be good to remember for King Penguin though...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

This article has improved greatly since I did the GA review, and I think it's nearly ready for a shot at FA. The second half of the long opening paragraph of "description" is a string of short sentences, and very choppy, could do with rolling up a bit. Jimfbleak (talk) 06:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Agree. Was waiting for RcS and anyone else to have a look and I think I'll nom in the next 24-48 hrs. Feel free to tweak....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, I just went through and gave it a copyedit. Casliber, make sure that you go through and check that I didn't change the meaning of any sentences. There were a few, most notably Description para. 2 sent. 3, that I wasn't sure about. Also, I added a cite needed tag in the only paragraph without a ref, Behavior's third about swimming speeds. The zoo situation needs to be sorted out as well. Other than that, I think it looks really really good and definately FAable. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and there is the minor problem that nowhere in the article is it mentioned that the bird is flightless :) Also, wouldn't you logically think that there would be a slight difference in degrees F between 37.6 C and 38 C (Adaption to cold 2nd para). Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:28, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Fixed temp manually, dumped useless convert function Jimfbleak (talk) 18:09, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

also, still have text sandwiched between two pictures, won't do for FA Jimfbleak (talk) 18:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Much appreciated guys...flightless (ROFL)....meaning looks not to be altered. Will get ref and trim images. thx for input. easy fixes apart from zoo headache Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Update:which chick image do I cull?

What do we think guys? Keep the upper one with adults and chicks for size comparison, or ditch it and use the one from further down the article with the two images? I slightly prefer the top one but appreciate different POV Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Keep the top one, the double image is awful; the image of the chicks from McMurdo (actually at seaworld!) has clearly been poorly edited to remove the background and the line drawing isn't of fabulous quality either. is a much better close up of a chick at any rate. Sabine's Sunbird talk 21:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Sabine and much prefer the pic above to either of the doubled image. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 00:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

ref 54 has sci name non-italic - is that correct? Jimfbleak (talk) 05:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Nope, should be italicized.

Note to self to ref later . Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I hate zoo tycoon...

Every time I try to google search words including Emperor Penguin exhibit and Zoo, all these Zoo tycoon pages pop up ......Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:12, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Do an advanced search, and exclude any results that have the word tycoon in it. Sabine's Sunbird talk 19:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

disambig

basal needs a disambig Randomblue (talk) 16:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. Shyamal (talk) 03:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

suggested edits

Hi.

I would like to suggest a bit of a change to this excellent article, the change leading to a clearer understanding by the reader of evolution as a process that is the explanation of how living things currently are, rather than as a goal-oriented process.

(Biologists know what they really mean when they use the words "to" and "for" as shortcuts, and have been using these words for years, but the general public may not be cognizant of the fact that, indeed they are just shortcuts that assume knowledge of evolution. And it looks like the majority of the population do have a misconceived notion of evolution as a goal-oriented process. So lets be more precise in our language to try to improve the general public's understanding of the process of evolution by its results)

The 1st change would be to substitute "for" with "enabling"; for example "with a streamlined body and wings stiffened and flattened into flippers for(sic) a marine lifestyle" be changed to "with a streamlined body and wings stiffened and flattened into flippers, enabling a marine lifestyle".

The other change: using wording that again more precisely reflects the understanding the process of evolution in replacing "to" with better terminology:

from "It has several adaptations to facilitate this" to "It has several adaptations that facilitate this"

from "haemoglobin to allow it to function" to "haemoglobin that allows it to function"

from "solid bones to reduce barotrauma" to "solid bones that reduce barotrauma"

from "Like all penguin species, it has a streamlined body to minimise drag while swimming" to "Like all penguin species, it has a streamlined body that minimises drag while swimming"

from "The tongue is equipped with rear-facing barbs to prevent prey from escaping" to "The tongue is equipped with rear-facing barbs that prevent prey from escaping"

from "and before old feathers are lost, to help reduce heat loss" to "and before old feathers are lost, which reduces heat loss"

And slightly different: from "It uses a complex set of calls that are critical to individual recognition between parents, offspring, and mates" to "a complex set of calls by an individual is recognized by its parents, offspring, and mates" - this change presents the facts to a reader, from which a logical thinker would come this conclusion on his/her own, rather than reading a conclusion from "authority." Individual conclusion from the evidence, instead of being told from an "authority" what that "authority" concludes.

As you can conclude from this missive, I want the processes and results of science to be presented in such clarity that creationists have as little to twist as possible.

Eddiethecat (talk) 00:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting suggestions. I'll see what some other folks think. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I have thought about this, and while I support edits that make it clear that evolution is not goal orientated (beyond survival) I am not sure that the word "to" with regard to function implies that. For example, to say that feathers evolved to keep a bird warms possibly implies design, I am not so sure that saying "it has feathers to keep it warm" does anthing other than denote function in a similar fashion to "which". Sabine's Sunbird talk 01:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Those changes sound good, would it be worth going a bit further to include something along the lines of (for example) "individuals with rear-facing spines on the tongue were better able to trap prey, thus allowing greater breeding success"? It's clunky but it's slightly more precise. The changes are subtle but seem like a minor but important nuance. WLU (t) (c) 01:32, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Definitely oppose that suggestion. We don't need to spell out the principal of natural selection every time. (And I'm saying that as a postgraduate student of bird evolution!) Sabine's Sunbird talk 04:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

The suggestions are interesting but perhaps it will still not avoid teleological mis-interpretation, however it may still be a good idea to use a few "thats" to break the monotony of "to" usages. Shyamal (talk) 07:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually I like the idea not so much because it puts it in an evolutionary perspective (not that I mind that) but rather, because it's tighter, more accurate language. it strikes me as a better writing style, more compatible with NPOV. Guettarda (talk) 02:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Be careful to avoid OR and mis-quoting. I can see the problem, being the use of goal oriented language by those who do not subscribe to a goal oriented process, but if that is what they say it is difficult to change the language and avoid criticism. Of course, find a RS that states that this is simply a linguistic convenience and and you could drop that into an info box without having to trawl through making many many changes. There is also the minority of creationist (both biblical and ID) biologists to consider. When they use goal oriented language, that's how they mean it.203.25.140.98 (talk) 03:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC) Oops. wasn't logged in. LowKey (talk) 03:12, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Remove "torrid" from cultural references and substitute "frigid" - Antarctica is anything but torrid (Brazil is torrid). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.11.231.18 (talk) 17:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

project

I have a project and I need some information about penguins I need to no what they eat there water shelter and light so I chose the Emperor penguins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.196.71.224 (talk) 23:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Disambig from the musical duo

Nevermind. Mbroderick271 (talk) 01:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Ahh finally!

I always enjoy it when a non-video game article makes it to featured status. It's a breath of fresh air! Thanks Raul!Jackass110 (talk) 01:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. Raul654 (talk) 03:33, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Inconsistancy

There is an inconsistancy between the lead and the description. Lead states weight between 22 to 37 kg (48 to 82 lb), description states 22 to 45 kg (50–100 lb). The only source easily searchable states an average weight of 45 kg. Makes one wonder how this made it as a featured article. Arzel (talk) 02:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

It is not unheard for two sources to have slight differences in weight (or any other) ranges. What is your easily searched source? I'm not thrilled with the sources cited here, so I shall go check the reliable HANZAB and report back. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The second source states an average weight of 45kg (99lbs). After double checking the first is easier than I thought. It states 22-37kg. That is a pretty big discrepency. I changed them to include the whole range of 22-45 and also corrected the kg->lbs conversions which were not consistant or correct between the two sections. Arzel (talk) 02:22, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

It would be nice to have a more reliable source than one that claims the average weight is the high 45 k. HANZAB had good info but didn't give the ranges, just the means. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:43, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The Williams monograph has a table citing Emperor Penguin weights, - males on arrival to colony - 2 means measured of 36.7 kg (range 35-40), and 38.2, males at hatching, means 24.7 (r=21.9-27.7) and 22.8, and range of 27-28 kg at chick rearing. Females on arrival to colony - 2 means measured of 28.4 kg (range 28-32), and 29.5, females at end of egg-laying, mean 22.4 (r=20.2-24.0), and c.32 kg at hatching, and c. 24 kg at chick rearing. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:38, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Other penguin species

Do Emperor penguins mingle at all with other penguin species? Do they try to drive them away when seen, as competitors and threats to the chicks? (The answer might belong in the section at the end that mentions Happy Feet, as the plot involves different penguin species ... having adventures and stuff.) Tempshill (talk) 21:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Birds rarely have adventures. Considering their colonies are miles inland it is unlikely any other penguins enter their colonies, and although I have heard of isolated Emperors wandering through colonies of Aedelies I doubt there is much in the way of regular interactions. So no, there isn't much to discuss. Sabine's Sunbird talk 22:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

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