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Revision as of 14:55, 5 December 2009

This is Jehochman's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.

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Please leave a new message. I generally prefer to keep conversations on the page where they start. Please follow Strunk & White's advice, "Omit needless words!" Unblocks: If I block a user, any administrator is free to refactor the block unless I have specifically requested contacting me first. I may remove comments posted here if no response is needed, or if I respond elsewhere.

That messy thing

Excuse my commenting on this, but this re-opening of the resolved mess by erasing the "resolved"s is not a good idea. It is not my place to undo that, but someone ought to (or do something more fitting) ... Someone whose voice will not be questioned. (No reply necessary.) Proofreader77 (talk) 02:33, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

It will be simpler to just not post anything else to that thread. It can end naturally. I am not going to block anybody over an unretracted personal attack of the form "you did X wrong", where clearly X is false and everybody sensible knows it. If the accusations appear on other fora and continue to be repeated, then maybe, but not yet. The person making the accusations is damaging their own reputation, but causing no harm to Cirt. Jehochman 03:32, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Much appreciate your response/insight. The "wave dynamics" seemed not to be trending toward "damping," but will trust your experienced eyes/gut. Oh and, happy holidays. Cheers. Proofreader77 (talk) 04:14, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think you are right. I've sprayed some flame-retardant foam on the thread. Hopefully that will be the end of it. Jehochman 04:17, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Jehochman, I appreciate your input and sound judgment in this matter. Cirt (talk) 04:26, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome! Jehochman 04:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Jehochman, I agree with the summary you made in your closing of the thread as resolved and archiving it. But Redheylin (talk · contribs) has yet to retract anything or state that he will refrain from his inappropriate behavior of attacks in the forms of unsupported claims against other editors in the future. How can this be remedied? Also, will you monitor the thread to make sure it stays archived as is this time? :P Thanks again, Cirt (talk) 04:35, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I will watch. I assume Redheylin will take the good advice that's been given, or else we'll deal with any failures when they happen. Jehochman 04:43, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Can you give Redheylin (talk · contribs) a warning at his talk page similar to the one left in the "resolved" close of the thread? Or is that redundant and not necessary? Cirt (talk) 04:47, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Redundant, and possibly unhelpful. He's already been warned by GWH, two or three times. Piling on may only make him feel cornered and he might behave worse rather than better. Jehochman 04:50, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay, agreed, that sounds reasonable. A side note, Redheylin (talk · contribs) has placed tags at the top of articles I subsequently improved, North Carolina v. Alford and Alford plea. A third-party editor stated the tags should be removed . And then we have the comment about the quality of my research and sourcing by Brumski . Can those tags be removed? Cirt (talk) 04:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

It is not for me to decide content matters. Go to the appropriate noticeboard and ask uninvolved editors to help form a consensus. Jehochman 04:58, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay, good idea. Cirt (talk) 05:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Jehochman, please see . Recent comments by Redheylin (talk · contribs), after your close of the ANI thread, seem to go against the warning you had left at the top of the "resolved" portion of the ANI thread. User continues to make unsupported attacks. What to do about this? Cirt (talk) 11:57, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

New, but related issue: At article Rajneesh movement, Redheylin (talk · contribs) introduced WP:WEASEL wording and then completely unsourced material . So apparently, Redheylin (talk · contribs) feels he can make unsupported claims about editors, and also add unsourced material to controversial articles? Cirt (talk) 12:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Moreso concerned however with that former issue. Cirt (talk) 13:23, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

You could start an RfC on them. I don't see much chance of a long term block or ban until we develop a consensus that they are more trouble than their contributions are work. Jehochman 14:01, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Update: Jehochman, he is still making unsupported attacks, eg, . Can you take some sort of action here? The user has already received numerous "final warnings" about this from other admins. Cirt (talk) 14:17, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay, can you start a discussion at WP:ANI, leaving diffs and especially diffs of the warnings. I'll check on it. Jehochman 14:32, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Done. Can you have a look? Cirt (talk) 15:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm in the midst of another very hot dispute (that appeared to have been resolved, but just exploded). I will definitely look, but I might not act until the other dispute is resolved, or until we get some input from uninvolved parties. Jehochman 15:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

As you wish... :( Cirt (talk) 15:44, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Even I can only handle so much drama at a time. Jehochman 15:47, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

If only you had worked in "inconceivable" into your response. Shame on you, Jehochman. xD --Thejadefalcon_{The bird's seeds} 15:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure that word means what you think it means. Jehochman 15:53, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

You've made my day. xeno's a Star Trek fan, you like The Princess Bride... I like this site's admins. :P --Thejadefalcon_{The bird's seeds} 16:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

A Note

You will already be aware of my views about Die4Dixie's comments towards you today. I just wanted to reiterate my abhorence of his appalling calumny against you (and Slrubenstein) and share with you my view that no editor should ever be the target of such hatefulness. I might add that I am greatly saddened by those who would attempt to rationalise what he has done. My best regards, Crafty (talk) 08:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. The sheer number of apologists is appalling. Maybe things will get better when people wake up in a few hours. Jehochman 08:17, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I earnestly hope so. Crafty (talk) 08:19, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

When a disruptive editor is confronted, their friends are often the first to respond. In time, the thread achieves a sensible balance. Jehochman 08:21, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate that and I'm certain commonsense will prevail as more reasonable editors read the thread and share their views. That said you have conducted yourself with commendable restraint under these trying circumstances. A most creditable performance in the finest traditions of WP administrators. :) Crafty (talk) 08:25, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, this page is reserved for criticism only. ;D Jehochman 08:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I just chimed in; I'm on that damn page today, anyway. Really, there's nothing but trouble with this 'anyone editing'. This is what 50kg banhammers are for. Cheers, Jack Merridew 08:32, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Some people get an unfair deal, but this guy seems to have been given more than enough chances to shape up, and he has no apparent intention of doing so. Jehochman 08:37, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I considered your original 1 week block appropriate but lenient given the history. After reviewing the editor's contrib history I would fully support a community ban. When I sat down at the computer with my first cup of coffee and logged in to WP, I was hoping to find something that would make me smile; y'know, one of those amusing comments left at Evolution or Black hole. Needless to say, I'm not amused. Doc Tropics 16:05, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry this spoiled your morning. I think we need to draw a line in the sand that attacking other editors based on race, religion or ethnicity is out of bounds; the same as making a legal threat. Block until the remark is retracted. Jehochman 16:10, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with that idea in general, and would even expand it to include nationality, gender, and sexual orientation. However, any policy that touches on "motive" would require very careful wording. Once the current issues have been resolved I think it would be a very useful to initiate a community discussion. Good luck, Doc Tropics 17:03, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Werwalt´s talk.

You have a message there.--Die4Dixie (talk) 01:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I've replied there. Jehochman 04:06, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, wasn´t watching his page. See you there.--Die4Dixie (talk) 05:29, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Care to explain?

Would you care to explain why you collapsed the subthread at ANI calling it a "tangent"? I'm interested in your reasoning.--Sky Attacker the legend reborn... 04:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

It was a disruptive, retaliatory tangent that did not have a proper basis. That thread has been horribly disrupted, and I predict that the matter will end up at ArbCom, and several parties may be sanctioned as a result. Jehochman 04:19, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. Cut down on unwanted drama.--Sky Attacker the legend reborn... 04:21, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. If there are issues with an administrator, those should first be discussed with the admin directly. Then find a neutral party to provide a third opinion. If that fails, consider starting an admin conduct RfC. Jehochman 04:22, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

High ethics and integrity

A propos of . Jehochman, FT2 possesses high ethics and integrity, but you have to realise he needs a clear desk and a more appropriate venue before adding more explanation of the difference between October and August. Bishzilla has asked me to remind you that any explanation by FT2 of the timing of your action needs to fit round his work and others' work, real life, and other historic matters, and to coincide with a family season, a new arbcom season and the start of the working year. He could also need to check various large archives, with review item by item where a search cannot be specified, to ensure accuracy, and to ensure the balancing of that with a few overriding issues, if applicable, such as privacy of users, WMF requirements, ability to cite emails and getting permission if needed, and so on. Since he doesn't have the necessary detailed information about the difference between October and August, he can't change it with any precision, so he's overall going to let it stand. Don't fuss, now. Bishonen | talk 16:54, 3 December 2009 (UTC).

Wikivoice interview

I removed several Wikivoice interviews from candidate statement pages because they do not appear to be neutral and they were not added by the candidates themselves. However your interview seems more neutral and you have added it to your own user page so I assume you approve of it.   Will Beback  talk  20:57, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I am happy to leave it. Jehochman 22:05, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi Jehochman - me again. While I admit to having some issues with some of your edits on WP, I did listen to your interview. I strongly suspect that we could be great friends IRL. I thank you for taking the time to do the interview, it did allow me to feel that I got to "know you a little better". I wish you the very best in the real world, and offer enjoyable holiday wishes for you and your family. Hugs and kisses to that new little addition to the family. All my best, Ched. — Ched :  ?  21:08, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Ched, thank you for your kind remarks. Disagreeing is not a fault. I've never thought of you as a bad guy (), and I hope you enjoy your holidays too. We've got a lot of wrapping and decorating to do. Best regards, Jehochman 22:05, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Taking the bull by the horns

Other than citing the diff as rationale for changing from support to strong support, what do you suggest I do with this post? /me resists urge to call you "Cowboy" or employ compound noun formations of "bull" Durova 22:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Much obliged, ma'am. You may keep it forever and ever. Yee ha! Now I gotta go find me a bull to ride. Jehochman 00:10, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

(sotto voce) With bad guys and 10 gallon hats ... sounds like a Western. :-) Perhaps a Misplaced Pages musical. (Gallops away humming.) Proofreader77 (talk) 00:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy trails to you 'til we meet again. Durova 00:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Request for assistance

Hi Jonathon, I know you are a very experienced Admin and I am seeking your advice please on how to handle a situation which has been dragging on for many months now, see User talk:Nopetro#Inappropriate additions relating to renewable energy and regards Johnfos (talk) 01:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Policy ?

which wiki policy states that citations are not required in lead section ? WillMall (talk) 14:55, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

When the lede summarizes material in the body that is cited, there is no need to place redundant citations in the lede. Jehochman 14:58, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

... and for the fine print see WP:LEADCITE. Hans Adler 16:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Account sharing

This is regarding Kils (talk · contribs · count) (who was mentioned in a recent ANI thread you commented on). Thought I'd let someone else review this and weight in, but isn't this and this evidence of account sharing and as such forbidden? Or is it allowed under some circumstances? Thanks, OhNoitsJamie 16:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I've indef blocked the account. Sharing an account is strictly disallowed. Jehochman 16:42, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

That's what I thought. Thanks! OhNoitsJamie 17:12, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey, can I have person X banned for a while? K, thx.

No, really, what was going through your head for those three minutes you took to consider indefinitely blocking a six-year contributor to[REDACTED] because of an unproven allegation? ˉˉ╦╩ 07:44, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't be so hasty to assume bad faith. You should look into an issue before jumping to conclusions.

1. The user was discussed at WP:ANI yesterday (see Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive583#Evidence of bribery for favorable user statements & related AfD). I already reviewed the matter and commented in defense of the user: I don't see the bribery at all. Could you lay it out plainly, or else strike that portion of the report? I was up to speed before Ohnoitsjamie posted here.
2. The diffs above show the account being used by multiple persons. This is strictly forbidden by WP:NOSHARING because sharing accounts breaks Misplaced Pages's copyright licensing, which requires that each contribution be attributable to a single person. Yes, it takes about three minutes to review two diffs when I'm already familiar with what's going on.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Jehochman 14:55, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Sock of Tancarville/Mobile Historian

Just FYI, it looks like our friend is back at it with User:Nemesis029, a new account whose edits to date involve vandalism and edit warring on the Maltese nobility article and tinkering with my user page .  RGTraynor  20:24, 4 December 2009 (UTC)