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Revision as of 17:50, 22 December 2009

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Hi all!

I'll answer all messages left on this page here, so that a possible discussion is kept in context. Watch this if you are waiting for an answer.

--Stephan Schulz

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Misplaced Pages's Stephan Schulz

Referring to here: http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Raylopez99 
Italic text and this quote here: "I'll warn or block any user I see who persists in such comments, although I have to say that I rarely have seen such incoherent aggression before." this shows me one of two things:  (1) you are prone to making aggrandizing statements like "although I have to say that I rarely have seen such incoherent aggression before", which begs the question about what was "incoherent" about my statement to this person, or, (2) you are very inexperienced about human interaction.  Either way, you're probably not the best person to be moderating Misplaced Pages.  I understand Misplaced Pages, being unpaid, is facing a crisis in finding competent administrators.  Shame, since the current administrators seem to be ruining it for everybody.  Worse, you have failed to read this section, that you cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:CIVIL#Assume_good_faith  Now ask yourself--telling an administrator like William, who has been voted out by the Misplaced Pages committee as an administrator (due to his censoring activities and apparent bias towards the Global Warming cause, as has been exposed in the online mainstream media) that he should not censor any of my comments about his censorship about a particular article on the Wiki page that he censored--is clearly "good faith".  In fact, it goes to the very issue of the article under consideration.  How is that not good faith?  You perhaps were offended by the rhetorical "twist the knife" remark I made, but that's small beer.  Nuff said.  I'm not going to make a mountain out of a molehill, but this is another example of why Misplaced Pages has gone downhill, and now is just a shadow of it's former self and potential.  Have a nice day.  Raylopez99 (talk) 17:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Bovine emissions and suspected Scibaby accounts

As far as I can see, this edit violated no policies. I checked the source, which is reliable, and the edit appeared to be faithful to the source's information. I understand that Scibaby had a fixation on bovine emissions threatening humanity, but you don't know for sure that it was a Scibaby account. You apparently blocked the account because it had an interest in a subject that was the same as a banned editor. Do you think that perhaps blocks, or block considerations, in these types of situations should be handled by editors who aren't regular contributors to the Global Warming articles? Cla68 (talk) 07:25, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I am very certain that this is a Scibaby sock, and as such I blocked and rollbacked all of his substantial edits. I've submitted the account for sock verification to a CU. No, editors who "aren't regular contributors to the Global Warming articles" will typically neither watch them nor be familiar with the patterns that expose Scibaby, and so will not be able to react in time. I refuse to put a layer of bureaucratic veneer over simple administrative actions, as that would further shift the burden of work to the advantage of the Sockmaster. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:33, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

But, if the edit itself isn't against any policy, then what's the big deal about waiting for a sock verification first before blocking? Cla68 (talk) 07:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

It delays the process. And it would require any edit to be individually checked. That's a courtesy we grant normal users, not abusive sockmasters. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:18, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Cla, if you like the edit you're free to add it yourself, and sponsor it. You shouldn't, because it is wrong, and has been discussed before. Violating no policies is either irrelevant, if you read it superficially, or incorrect, if you read it with understanding, since it violates NPOV. faithful to the source's information: You failed to assess the edit correctly; will help you William M. Connolley (talk) 09:47, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

He's gone. Was it something I said? William M. Connolley (talk) 20:44, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

This is turning into quite a little soap opera -- a blend of genuine concerns, partisan maneuvering, long-term grudges, and everything else that makes for a juicy tale of intrigue. (Except for the sex, though there may be things we don't know yet.) Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 21:41, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I think you all need to remember that the entire University of Colorado science department was once blocked from editing Misplaced Pages because of an excessive, fear-of-Scibaby, range block. If an edit is wrong, fine, remove it for that reason, but we should be wary about blocking someone as a sock based the editor having a similar POV. Misplaced Pages or the Global Warming articles won't be destroyed if a suspected sock is allowed to edit for another day or two while we make sure. Like I said to Mr. Schulz (or Doctor Schulz if that's the appropriate title, and I don't mean that in a mocking way), if you all are too close to the subject, then please consider inviting neutral admins to help you out with guarding the project from Scibaby. Cla68 (talk) 23:15, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

It's not about the money. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

This isn't a range block. You are failing to address the point: you, a neutral, (can we call you neutral?) failed to understand the problem with the edit, because you don't understand the area. If an editor who knows what is going on says to another admin "hey go block this sock" and the other simply does so, thats just meatpuppetry. So the other admin has to be brought up to speed on what is going on, and by the time they are... then by your standards, they are no longer neutral. Your approach is a recipe for disaster William M. Connolley (talk) 08:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Which, of course, is the point of proposing it. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 14:08, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Dammit, I sometimes hate being right. It ocurred to me not until after welcoming that it could be someone aging a sock. I was refreshing that contribution history for a few days after the autoconfirm kicked in, but it turns out to have been an obvious one. Thanks. - 2/0 (cont.) 20:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

No worries. I've got some experience with this particular sock master. It's not obvious from single edits unlike you either know the type or look at them in detail and with fairly deep domain knowledge. BTW, the sock has been confirmed by CU. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:00, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Will be nice if you can tell what policies are violated in this edit. You can check reference and it is official stance of part of PAS. I hope once you confirm it's not sock it will be brought back. Cheers. User talk:Forest001 (cont.) —Preceding undated comment added 15:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC).

Unlikely. The subcommittee is not a scientific body of national or international standing. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

You are wrong, it is part of Polish Academy of Science which is national scientific body as listed here. And it's not subcommittee but Committee. You can read more about it being national standing here. Hope this will clear up few things for you. User talk:Forest001 (cont.) —Preceding undated comment added 15:21, 6 November 2009 (UTC).

The Polish Academy of Science is definitely a relevant scientific body. However, it has a distinctly different opinion from its (sub- or non-sub) committee. Please see the discussion I linked. And please discuss this on the article talk page, not here. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Will move at once. But hinting at that the Committee of Geological Sciences of the Polish Academy of Sciences is not relevant is low-blow. Further i want to address that "However, it has a distinctly different opinion..." - it's not a reason to diminish that opinion. User talk:Forest001 (cont.) —Preceding undated comment added 15:54, 6 November 2009 (UTC).

Japan Society of Energy and Resources and Global Warming

Can you explain why JSER is not a "scientific body of national or international standing?" Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralree (talk • contribs) 14:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

JSER's status is debatable. But JSER does not have a published position on the issue. What has been published (and misrepresented by the register) is a summary of a discussion by 5 members of a sub-committee of JSER. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually its not even that... It was an article (not a report) printed in the JSER journal, written by 5 scientists (with different opinions on AGW) to spark a debate. (see here (more specifically the update by Itoh)) relevant quote: "Thus, it is not correct if one thinks that the discussion represents the opinion of the journal’s editors or of the society JSER. In fact, none of the five contributors belong to the JSER, and Prof. Yoshida kept his attitude neutral in the article" --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 16:42, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Talk page comments

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I don't see this going anywhere useful. Our positions are clear but clearly different. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:31, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Stephen, I do not agree with removing part of a conversation, even if you believe it is irrelevant. If you feel it must be removed (why?) then I suggest you remove WMC's comments as well, where he (1) accuses Alex of bad faith on the silly Ph.D thing, even though it's clear that Alex never had any intention of disrespecting anyone, and (2) calls it a "waste of time" even though calmer editors had reached consensus. This is baiting, pure and simple, and it has to stop. David Shankbone has now removed my edit for a third time, so rather than restore mine, I've simply removed WMC's disruptive comment that started it all.

BTW, WMC is certainly a COI editor on Lawrence Solomon, and David Shankbone is not supposed to be reverting actions made by me, per an earlier conflict between us. This is all highly inappropriate. Thank you. ATren (talk) 17:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry ATren, WMC certainly doesn't have a COI on Solomon - or at least that is what two different AN/I queries have shown. (the other way is more obvious Solomon does have one). --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 17:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, it's irrelevant anyways, so I'm striking it so as not to divert from the main point. The rest still applies. And, FWIW, WMC removing my comment to him is certainly inappropriate. ATren (talk) 17:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I see nothing here that vaguely serves the purpose of improving the article, and I find your edit comment extremely unhelpful, as it brings a completely unrelated issue into the discussion. It also displays a complete misunderstanding of the discussion. Boris original comment pointed out that Alex (like many) showed a tendency to stress academic credentials for people that support his position. The rest of the doctorate discussion was quite good fun until Alex misunderstood a comment - and that has been cleared up. Nobody has indicated any serious desire or expectation to be called by their title. We all know that WMC is not the most diplomatic of people, but his summary of the thread that you removed here actually was useful in its substance. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Stephen, with all due respect, calling a thread a waste of time and continuing to accuse Alex of bad faith on the Ph.D thing (my original response to WMC on Solomon's talk was one hour after this provacation) is disruptive. I called on others to ignore it (again, one hour after he brought it up again on his talk), he removed my response without removing his original disruption (highly inappropriate) and then you got involved. I would not have minded your removal if you'd removed both his disruptive statements and my response, but removing just my response is unacceptable. Now, the entire thread is now gone (I removed WMC's unnecessary aggression which started it all) so let's move on, shall we? ATren (talk) 18:00, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I think you have an unhealthy fixation on WMC. As far as I can tell, you've had no interaction on t:LS except for commenting on WMC. And now you use a comment he made on his user talk page to justify an off-topic attack on an article talk page? I'm at a loss what you want to achive - Alex has already been engaged in a separate and producive discussion on WMC's user page, and no-body was remotely at risk of "taking the bait". Why don't you step back and refrain from interaction with WMC unless you have a substatial argument on article content? It's not our job to proactively police Misplaced Pages, and its a particularly bad idea to try to do so if it involves editors you have had previous unpleasant interactions with. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:17, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

No, Stephen, you are incorrect in your assumption. I've been involved with BLPs for many climate change skeptics in the past, because of what I view as overly negative material in the bios. I can't recall if I've edited Solomon directly, but I have been involved in Singer, Gray, Plimer, and others I may not recall at the moment. I was about to make a proposal on Solomon's page for the coffee thing when Boris provided a compromise which satisfied all involved. It is then that I found WMC's provocative comments about it being a "waste of time" and the whole Ph.D manufactured controversy (which WMC will not let go, by virtue of his comment this morning). And, for the record, I do have arguments on content, but it's difficult to have a rational discussion when other editors are hurling insults (e.g. being called a "malcontent" for raising a blp issue). It is not my behavior that is out of line here. If WMC continues to make aggressive comments, I'm going to continue to call him on it, because all it does is create a hostile environment.

By the way, what is your view on saying someone else's concern is a "waste of time", or the continued haranguing of Alex for the Ph.D silliness? Do you think any of this is appropriate or helpful? ATren (talk) 18:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

If you want to "call out" other editors, the correct place for that is not an article talk space, where such comments are plain disruptive. Use the user talk page or an RFC/U if you feel that's necessary. As I said before, WMC is not the most diplomatic of editors, but nobody but you seem to have any problem with his behavior in this particular case. We traditionally allow users a lot of leeway on their talk pages. It's not helpful to carry this into any article talk pages. Article talk pages are explicitly for discussion of the articles and improvements to them, not for user issues. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

(e.c.) WMC is not the most diplomatic of editors - that's the problem. It's disruptive. Alex is still trying to apologize for nothing, because WMC won't let it die (see WMC's talk page and Alex's long response from today). And this is far from the first time WMC has caused problems with his abrupt style; as someone who edits the same kinds of articles as he does, I'm intimately aware of the disruption he causes with his "lack of diplomacy". It happened just last week on Plimer, now on Solomon, and in the past year on Singer and Gray. Those are just the ones I'm aware of. And I don't buy the argument "that's just who he is". If an editor can't conduct themselves with a minimum of decorum, including not regularly insulting those they disagree with, then they don't belong here. We should not be tolerating disruptive behavior just because "that's the way he is" - isn't that why Abd and his walls of text were banned?

Also, FWIW, I have, in the past, raised these issues on WMC's talk, but he usually reverts my edits on his talk, so I saw no point in going there. ATren (talk) 19:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

So? If he deletes it, he saw it. I also see no sign that your comments are improving the situation even mildly. Again, I suggest you disengage and spend more time building content and less time commenting on other editors. Abd was banned for persistent POV-pushing combined with an inability to communicate effectively. I think William's style is very effective in communicating his opinion. It's his opinion that some few people can't stomach. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Do you respond well to others calling you "malcontent" and accusing you of bad faith? If I have an opinion that another editor is a moron, can I say that and claim "that's just my opinion"? WMC's abrasive attitude and disruptive comments are what people take issue with, not his opinions, and perhaps if the people he respects (like you and Boris) were more honest with him, it wouldn't have come to a breaking point where he (quite justifiably) lost admin rights. Frankly, his behavior since the case is as bad as it's ever been, and instead of him learning from wise editors like Risker, he calls them fools and cowards and escalates his aggressive attitude. I am simply the messenger here.

Anyway, I'll fade into the woodwork again (I really don't care about people like Plimer, I only care about how it makes us look when we appear to be attacking them), but rest assured, the problem is not me, and will resurface again if WMC doesn't realize how inappropriate his behavior is. ATren (talk) 19:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Note to ATren, keeping a "serious injury list", as you are doing here, is frowned upon unless you have an immediate goal for dispute resolution in mind. If that is the case it would do well for you to put a heading at the top of the list stating the specific dispute resolution mechanism you intend to undertake. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:55, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Boris, it is perfectly appropriate to keep links in userspace, as long as there is no inflammatory commentary. See User:Raul654/GoRight, for example - which has been around for over a year and does contain commentary. And FWIW, I do anticipate taking action if it keeps going the way it is. But, if enough people object, I will take it offsite. I would view that as simply more of the double standard that has made this place so poisonous, but I can live with a double standard for now, as long as progress is being made with wise arbcom decisions like the one we just saw. ATren (talk) 19:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Reconsidered: I've taken it offsite, where I don't have to defend it (even though others don't have to defend it :-/) ATren (talk) 19:17, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Ugly Merge proposal at 350 (organisation)

Hi, there is a POV-driven attempt to downgrade-via-merge the abovementioned article. There is a much-blocked, habitually-edit-warring admin called Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) involved. The merge proposal needs to be removed. Most merge-supporting comments are from the usual suspects who are networking on Talk pages in a co-ordinated effort to suppress this page (and others). Your attention there welcome. Thanks. ► RATEL ◄ 03:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Idiocy

I could enumerate the pedantic idiocy in the article you posted on Boris' talk, but it would take a while. Instead, if you are interested in oil and/or why Solomon's article is idiotic (as are many of the comments, predictably), my talk is available. Awickert (talk) 00:39, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'll take you up on it. We have one (stable isotope ratios inconsistent with abiotic origin). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:48, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Here goes in 3 10 15 minutes away from my real work:

1. Oil from Dinos: I'm willing to give him this one as a facetious remark, as dinosaurs were a very tiny amount of biomass and many oil resources are not from the portion of the Mesozoic in which dinosaurs existed.
2. All the study says is that at high T, P, hydrocarbons can combine into bigger chains. Solomon doesn't represent this at all.
3. "The Nature study follows Kutcherov’s previous work, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, that created hydrocarbons out of water, calcium carbonate and iron — products in the Earth’s mantle." - several problems here
   • Water is in very questionable and likely extremely low abundance, except in subduction zones where it gets to a few percent. The study is talking about oil under cratonal areas, which are the stable, old continental interiors.
   • Carbonate (CO3) is nonexistent in the upper mantle except for some fluid inclusions; it is not a player in the bulk composition
   • The "iron" that they use in this previous study is FeO. Around 9% of the olivine in the mantle is Fayalite, which has a much different structure and I presume would be much different thermodynamically. Other iron in the mantle is also tied up in more complex mineral structures.
   • Basically, the conditions in this previous study are not characteristic of the Earth's mantle
4. Since this last study isn't characteristic of the Earth's mantle, how does the carbon get down there in the first place? There is basically no carbonate, and the density of carbon-based mineral compounds is less than that of the mantle.
5. Solomon calls this an infinite source. But there is a huge logical fallacy in an assumption of a production rate that can keep up with our consumption rate, which is completely absurd considering if one thinks about the rate of petroleum usage and integrates that as a production rate for hydrocarbons over all of geologic time.
   • Back of the envelope calculation based on data here and approximating 7 barrels per metric ton: 1.94 * 10^12 kg per year current consumption, times 4 billion years, gives about 8 * 10^21. The mass of the Earth's crust, where this stuff is supposed to reside, is about 2 * 10^21 kg. Liquid propane is about 1/6 the mass of rock, so per volume, we should have 20 times the amount of petroleum as we do crust on Earth unless it was somehow destroyed. And if it was destroyed, this signature should be in the sed record, and there should be a sign that the mantle (mass 4 * 10^24 kg) lost 1% of its total mass, resulting in a decent amount of global shrinking. And that's not even counting the fact that carbon is a great rarity in the mantle. Wild. I'm off to do something more useful with my time :-). Awickert (talk) 00:36, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

And I'm just getting started, Awickert (talk) 20:32, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Werewaz

Hi. Werewaz (talk · contribs) has now clearly broken 3RR, and is ignoring the ANI discussion, even though I've put the link into edit summaries. Could you not just go ahead and block him?VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 15:40, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I could. However, I'm still hoping someone else can get him to open up... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Ha ha (^o^) That's very humane of you. I just think policy is very clear, the user is ignoring not only policy but every single attempt to communicate. It's possible that they don't speak English, but that's still not an excuse.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 15:54, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I've put him/her up at WP:AN3#User:_Werewaz_reported_by_User:_Stephan_Schulz_.28Result:_.29. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Banging my head against a very opinionated brick wall!

Hi

You’ve recently given me a 12 hour ban for 3Rs, but what you obviously haven’t seen is that the edits I’ve reverted, have been after discussion which the other party has chosen to ignore, preferring to just revert my edit instead. Some of these reverts were even made after consensus had been reached!

I am having a very long and frustrating battle while simply trying to bring some kind of accuracy, and NPOV, to the Uri Geller article which was previously completely full of nonfactual POV material, without reliable source.

The main editor I have been having these issues with, is Arthur Rubin who seems to have made a hobby out of edit warring, and who appears to make up the rules as he goes along. He appears to be one of quite a few James Randi followers, (the person who has stated publicly that he is attempting to ruin Uri Geller's career) who is watching this article only to ensure that no positive or neutral material sticks. Negative, incorrect & un-sourced POV edits are being left alone, while anything neutral or even slightly positive, regardless of how well sourced, is fiercely repelled.

I’ve had some very long discussions with Arthur Rubin and his motives appear quite clear, to keep this article as one sided as possible. In fact, from his comments it appears that Arthur Rubin thinks this is the “James Randi Vs. Uri Geller” article.

I am not the only editor who feels that there is a problem with NPOV with this article, see “NPOV Issue.” On discussion page.

Recently, Arthur Rubin even went as far as making a very serious libelous comment about Uri Geller on the discussion page, accusing him of criminal behavior! (towards bottom of “YouTube Video” section on discussion page.) I dread to think what the reaction will be to this from Geller’s legal team get hold of this.

Moondial (talk) 20:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, too. I blocked you because you were in clear violation of WP:3RR, and none of the exceptions applied. I also looked at the edits in question individually. Sorry, but USA Today may not be The Economist or The Times, but it is a major news outlet and generally meets WP:RS. Ufodigests.com does not. If you think the article is overly negative, consider bringing it up on WP:BLPN, the BLP noticeboard. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:16, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

It's not USA today Vs UFO digest that I'm referring to. Spend enough time looking through the previous discussions and you'll see what I mean. It doesn't matter what source is cited, if it isn't in line with the skeptical point of view, it's passionately apposed - if it is in line with this POV, is gets in without any problems at all.

Thanks, I will bring it up on WP:BLPN

PAK(ISTAN)

i don't think so it is a derogatory term as it is often used by many people in pakistan itself, i guess u r referring to the word Paki,which is derogatory, still if u r offended in any way, My apologies.Qazmlp1029 (talk) 18:44, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

No worries. This is an international encyclopedia, different words are interpreted differently in different places. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Rollback rights

Stephan - I appreciated your comment earlier today on the WP:ANI. I wanted to see if you would restore my rollback rights. Thanks. |► ϋrбanяeneωaℓ • TALK ◄| 00:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Answered on your talk page. Good luck and have fun! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:37, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for restoring my rollback - your advice is definitely taken. I appreciate the help. |► ϋrбanяeneωaℓ • TALK ◄| 13:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Carbon tax on global warming page

OK, you deleted my text, but if you think it's a valid topic, then you could have replaced my sources with better ones. My sources were adequate in my view, but if you thought otherwise, then you could Google for ones that will replace mine. John Hyams (talk) 21:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I've opened the topic on Talk:Global warming controversy. I suggest we discuss there. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:31, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks...

I've read your argument on redaction and find it fair enough. Thanks for your input and I shall act accordingly in future.Manning (talk) 00:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, too. I'll second Boris' suggestion of a beer ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 00:15, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Rule 5

What's this rule 5 do be so kind as to explain it where is it to be found (link please), what is it about?--Damorbel (talk) 22:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, you are not cleared for this information. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Resilient Barnstar
		For keeping your temper in the face of hostility and for reverting countless acts of vandalism. Great Work. South Bay (talk) 21:39, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I'll put it up by the front door. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:46, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Ref desk edit conflict

I've just realised that I apparently removed a post of yours on the ref desk - sorry! I got an edit conflict (which I shouldn't have done anyway - we both just added comments to completely different sections) but it got the revision I had started with in the edit form and the diff between my version and that version displayed below it. Your revision seemed to be completely ignored... very odd... --Tango (talk) 09:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

No worries. Sometimes the data base back-end seems to act up. No wonder, with such a large, distributed system. I wonder how they do that, anyways...would it make sense to split the load by article? I.e. all work on one article is always routed to the same database server. Very simple conflicts are all sequential, scales up to the limit where a single server cannot handle a single article.... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:17, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

There is a single server that handles all edits, I think (at least, all edits on a given project - some of the other projects may be on different servers). The database mirrors just handle people reading articles (although most of that is handled by Squid caches). --Tango (talk) 11:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Help with dermatology-related content

Are you interested in dermatology-related content? I am looking for more help at the dermatology task force, particularly with our new Bolognia push 2009! Perhaps you would you be able to help us? ---kilbad (talk) 21:10, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Very sorry. I'm currently teaching a university class on the side, and have been forced to reduce my time on Misplaced Pages even for topics I do feel reasonably comfortable with. Dermatology is a topic I know nearly nothing about. I use sunscreen - sometimes. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:57, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

OK

I WILL ASK IT IN THE HELP DESK. WIKIPEDIA IS NOT CENSORED. THE WIKIPEDIANS ARE NOT CENSORED. --190.50.86.22 (talk) 00:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, apparently they also have broken shift keys. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

QQ advice

Do you have a way of dealing with rubbish answers on the reference desk? I have kind of given the right answer at Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Science#Coiled_rope but a couple of other editors who should know better keep repeating rubbish. I don't like to be rude to them but you edit on rd so what should one do when this happens. --BozMo talk 07:26, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there is much to do. If I get into an argument with someone who suffers from WP:ICANTHEARYOU, I eventually just state that I stand by my point and ignore further comments. TJ claims that "truth is great and will prevail if left to herself; that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate", and I do, as a whole, live my life assuming that he is right. Everything else is to painful... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:54, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Misplaced Pages:Notability and "What Misplaced Pages is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming (3rd nomination). Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

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Please add these questions to the semiprotected Global warming talk page

Please add these questions to http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Global_warming#Precipitation_rates

A. How far are increased precipitation rates expected to raise 10-year flood plain levels?

B. How much have projections for future greenhouse gas concentrations changed over the past 10 years?

Thank you. I would add them but I can't because the page is semi-protected. 99.62.185.160 (talk) 07:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I did, once. Please get an account for the future - it's just as anonymous and has a number of other advantages. My private consulting rates are EURO 300/hour, 30 minutes per incident minimum ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:34, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Troublemaker

 :-) William M. Connolley (talk) 10:00, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

My characters are always Chaotic Good - I'm the Swashbuckler! ;-) --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:35, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Can't win

You can't win. Don't try. Hipocrite (talk) 18:18, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Theon

Thanks for your note. Yes, I wondered why it had the word blog on it. Still, I think it can be used, in part because it's on an official government website, and isn't a personal blog (see WP:V, footnote six, for the policy's definition of blogs that are prohibited), and in part because I used it only for the contents of the subject's email, and not for any other personal views. But I only just started the rewrite. I'll take a look later for other sources. Thanks for the heads-up anyway. SlimVirgin 20:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

The "official government" part of the above is wrong. There is nothing official about it, just as there is nothing official about the republican party's website. That the committee allows such blogs/information from party-members on the site, doesn't make it "official". I've looked at your rewrite - and of the 4 references not a single one is a reliable source to BLP material (2 blogs, an Op-Ed and one example). --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 14:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Icons of Evolution

I removed the tags you placed around the "Icons of Evolution" section of the WP:RD science desk.

Please don't take such action without first discussing it in the WP:RD "discussion" section. Placing those tags presents an air of "officialdom" which is unwarranted since this appears to be your opinion only. I appreciate that you were just "being bold" in doing that - but understand that I'm just "being bold" in removing them.

I might well concur with adding those tags - but not without prior discussion. That's how the RD's work. SteveBaker (talk) 12:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

If you look through the archived discussion, you will see universal agreement that this discussion was off-topic on the reference desk. I think placing these tags is well within the mandate of any experience editor of good standing. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:01, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Icons of evolution

Hi,

Just wanted to tell that within the discussion we had on the above talk page I forgot to make my point in clear words: It realy doesn't matter whether one book is pseudoscientific or not, naming it as such seems to me of bad taste because it's a contorversial issue with social implications and certainly keeping neutrality would not cause any damage. That is, I have grave doubts that one who accepts the concepts of natural evolution would reject them because we don't have specific warning that the book is pseudoscientific, in the same way that one who disbelieve in evolution would not change his/her mind because the book is labeled as pseudoscience.--Gilisa (talk) 12:07, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Gilisa! I always enjoy diagreeing with you, because you never become disagreeable ;-). Basically, I'm in favor of calling a spade a spade. But I don't insist on the label in the first line - this needs to be said, but not necessarily thrust into peoples face directly. What usually get me into these discussions is a conditioned reflex to not let a scientifically unsound claim unchallenged in an area I know a bit about. Information theory is such a field, and ID's "contributions" are, without a doubt, pseudoscience of the most pseudiotic kind... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:33, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Well Stephan, not being disagreeable is my new version as you might notice (and it's also much more healthy) ;-). As for the article itself, we still disagree here, but as I said-it's not a big deal anyway--Gilisa (talk) 12:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Question

-waves- Hey there. Hope you don't mind me asking you a question. You commented on the Medieval Warm Period thing not too long ago (here) which had involved me. My account might be somewhat old but I'm not very knowledgable about the policies (didn't even know what an RfC was when the other person mentioned it heh), you seem to know better so... in relation to that article's name... should all the other "period" articles be switched to capitals? Over at List of time periods the majority of them were small-capped (i.e. Vedic period, Jōmon period and so forth). Might as well fix the other article's names if they should be capitilized too. So ... let me know if they should be capitilized as well and I'll go (attempt) to change them or request the move :) Avalik (talk) 15:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Avalik. I think it depends on the article in question. MWP is used as a proper noun - or it can be a descriptive. One calls for all upper case, the other all lower case (with the initial letter capitalized automatically). "Vedic period" seems to be purely descriptive, but Veda is a proper noun in its own right, so derived adjectives maintain the upper case (in English - in German we lower-case them). If in doubt, discuss it on the talk page of the article in question. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:JamesonStillCork.jpg

File:JamesonStillCork.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Jameson Still Cork.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Misplaced Pages, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Misplaced Pages, in this case: ]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 19:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

German translation

Hi Stephan,

Sorry for addressing you for this, and if this is not the right place just tell me-I just wanted to know whether transleting this sentence "System zur Abbildenden Aufklarung in der Tiefe des Einsatzgebietes" as "A system that would give the armed forces long range abilities new power" is correct in meaning, at least. Regards,--Gilisa (talk) 10:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Gilisia! Well, it's not wrong, but a different focus. A more fitting translation would be "System for deep theatre penetration visualizing reconnaissance" - but it looks like its full of military bullshit bingo buzzwords which may have a more specific meaning, or may be naive translations from English (I have only a vague idea what "Abbildende Aufklärung" could mean). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:24, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Stephan, what is your vauge idea about "Abbildende Aufklärung"? I'm not that familiar with military buzzwords :)--Gilisa (talk) 16:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, "Aufklärung" is "reconnaissance" or "intelligence (gathering)", but "Abbildend" can mean "mapping" or "visualizing", or possibly just "visual", so the combined phrase has many possible interpretations. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, thanks again, and you already translated it before..You are much more efficient than google's translation, I must tell ;)--Gilisa (talk) 16:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Scibaby

Do you also think that this was scibaby talking to himself? Some weired 'good cop, bad cop' thing... SPLETTE :] 09:02, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. It would allow him to get the old sock into the discussion with less suspicion. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:04, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought the same thing even before you added the tags but I wanted to keep them on my watchlist for a while first, to see what happens next. I guess he/she/them is trying new patterns... SPLETTE :] 09:08, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, that probably means that you are old and wise and that I'm young and rash. How's that arthritis of yours? ;-) --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:22, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, 'old' I don't know. I'm just 30. Certainly not wise. Just been around long enough to recognize scibaby... sometimes. SPLETTE :] 09:31, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Stephen on the other hand is nearly 50% older than you, and nearly as long toothed as me. But young at heart, and a good vintage year...--BozMo talk 12:23, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Gardner monk is probably not S. -Atmoz (talk) 17:42, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Furrfu?

Never expected to see that word pop up on Misplaced Pages. Did youlearn it at AFU, or has it migrated further? PhGustaf (talk) 18:38, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I certainly read AFU at a time, but I'm sure I also saw it on other newsgroups. It may not always show, but I'm old enough to have rejected that new-fangled Mosaic-thingy in favor of Usenet - indeed, my university made Usenet available with the advent of C News. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Heh. I still use text tools for mail and occasional news, for which web tools are abominations. The inability to read HTTP without extra effort is a feature. PhGustaf (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Problem with CfD of Category:Scientists_Opposing_The_Mainstream_Scientific_Assessment_Of_Global_Warming

Please revert your changes and repopulate Category:Scientists_Opposing_The_Mainstream_Scientific_Assessment_Of_Global_Warming untill the CfD discussion is closed. Depopulating it was an inappropriate move. I've made the same mistake, so I understand. ---Irbisgreif-(talk | e-mail)-(contribs) 20:48, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

No. None of the additions to the category was cited, so they are all WP:BLP violations and need to stay depopulated. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:03, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in SecurePoll feedback and workshop

As you participated in the recent Audit Subcommittee election, or in one of two requests for comment that relate to the use of SecurePoll for elections on this project, you are invited to participate in the SecurePoll feedback and workshop. Your comments, suggestions and observations are welcome.

For the Arbitration Committee,
Risker (talk) 08:34, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Additional information needed on Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Scibaby

Hello. Thank you for filing Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Scibaby. This is an automated notice to inform you that the case is currently missing a code letter, which indicates to checkusers why a check is valid. Please revisit the page and add this. Sincerely, SPCUClerkbot (talk) 02:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Grrrr! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Please respect Misplaced Pages more than you respect your own views.

Hi. Your edits to Climatic Research Unit e-mail hacking incident are kinda partisan. You rmv as "No source, and wrong" something that is easily sourced, and correct. Please respect the facts that exist, not the ones you wish to exist... If the whole thing is revealed as a fraud later, then you can say the facts are wrong. meanwhile, the emails do suggest that data was fudged. Please respect Misplaced Pages more than you respect your own views. I do it all the time. Ling.Nut (talk) 08:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

No, the emails do not give the impressions. Some blogs claim they give the impression. As an example, I looked at the archive and in the very first email a researcher disputed Trenberth's alleged quote (the "travesty" quote that has been all over the right-wing blogosphere) and gives a reasonable explanation for the current temperature trends. If you read the emails neutrally and with an educated mind, they are entirely unremarkable. Of course, given that its 61 MB, nobody has looked at the archive in any detail - bad sources repeat the same selected sound bites, good ones are silent. Anyways, WP:BLP strictly requires that unsourced negative information about living people (and an accusation of fraud is such) is deleted immediately. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

But you knee-jerk rmvd something that could be fixed with ten words or less. many sources are alleging that something is rotten in Denmark (or Norwich). These allegations, when treated as allegations and not as fact, are eminently fair game under BLP, assuming they are well-sourced. Don't you think? Ling.Nut (talk) 09:27, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Then fix it in your own sweet time. I have not yet seen "many" reliable sources alleging something "rotten". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:30, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

OK. Meanwhile, please do go gently with that rmv reflex. The sources are out there. We just report what they say. WP is about verifiability, not a reified Truth. Ling.Nut (talk) 09:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Are you a master of irony? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:01, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

(undent) I'll chat about reified Truth some other day. ;-) other thread more important. Ling.Nut (talk) 10:31, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

tag team deletion? Please do calm down

please do recreate the redirect you deleted to Mike's Nature Trick. I have explained everything quite reasonably. the phrase has been used as the title of several articles. Folks will be entering it into the search box. Ling.Nut (talk) 09:39, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Well i have checked the sources. And i can't find a single WP:RS that uses the phrase "Mike's Nature Trick" as a title. WP isn't a search engine or a directory - so an argument that if other sources use something as a title would require that Misplaced Pages creates a redirect based on such title's is simply bogus. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 09:45, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

• The folks at Wall Street Journal will surely be severely cut to hear that you do not believe they are RS:
• here Ling.Nut (talk) 09:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Except of course that that isn't an article - but a link to Watts Up With That which certainly isn't a reliable source. (in case you missed it OneSpot is a news aggregator). --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 10:20, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget Mike’s Nature Trick (I'm having a hard time telling them apart - did you delete the lower case one?) William M. Connolley (talk) 09:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Yep. I was not aware about the other one up to now... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

As for your source... This is a mirrored post from ClimateAudit.org - it would appear that the WSJ has now stooped to replicating septic trash :-( William M. Connolley (talk) 09:53, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Either way, it's WSJ. But thanks for the recreate... Ling.Nut (talk) 09:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh no. You didn't recreate. Oh me oh my. Ling.Nut (talk) 10:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I notice a certain consistency in your approach to fact checking.... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:04, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

(undent) meh. Elliptical WP:SARCASM is unhelpful. I was trying to follow links via redirects. Sometimes they worked; sometimes they didn't. Hey, which forum should i complain about you all on? It wouldn't seem to be ANI. I never (well nearly never, not in years probably) complain about people. The bureaucracy is a bit tedious. So... where should I go? Ling.Nut (talk) 10:07, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

ANI seems to be traditional but often unproductive. I know there are more exotic boards out there. If I were you I would avoid WP:BLP/N as unlikely to be sympathetic. Maybe try WP:Wikiquette alerts - I don't think I've read it in the last years, but I could be wrong. --Stephan Schulz "the Just" (talk) 10:26, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

No, I was at that Wikiquette thing a long, long time ago. It was days and days before the thread was replied to, IIRC. Essentially, my contention is this: you're using your adminly delete button to suppport a POV. I on the other hand, and very very far from being "malicious". A redirect is the most humble and unassuming thing on the wiki. And I have been accused of a few things, but never of vandalism. If you AGF and assume I am not being malicious, where does that leave you? With an innocent redirect. And with admins supporting a POV with their buttons. ... I'm going home. See ya tomorrow. Ling.Nut (talk) 10:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't care what your intent was. The redirect was inappropriate nonsense, and was deleted as such. If someone ever creates a redirect from McIntyre's Crapload to Climate Audit, I'll delete it just as quickly (if its pointed out to me). Have a good night. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Let's be honest. You're a global warming POV warrior masquerading as a neutral admin. I'm sorry I offended your religious views. I'll save my thoughts for another day. Bye! Ling.Nut (talk) 01:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Mu. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 01:26, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Broken "revert" tool, and "other"

FYI, apparently, the tool you are using to revert changes is broken.

and

I don't know what happened here (not your edit), but it made things worse. I fixed the edits here. Q Science (talk) 05:26, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm. Weird. I don't use any special tools at the moment. I tried wikEd for a while, but found it too annoying and went back to the plain default interface. No idea what happened there. Thanks for fixing it, though. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:32, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

WP:AN3

You've made a dupe I'm afraid. Could you add our comment to my report and anything I missed, and remove yours? Cheers, Verbal chat 10:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Was just about to comment on your talk page. I have more, yours are better (dated). I'll merge. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:46, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I stopped at 10! Thanks, Verbal chat 10:56, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Medieval Warm Period

Hi Stephan, I think the blanking was non-constructive and unnecessary, and I back your revert. But maybe there's something more to it. Maybe the text pays to much attention to a single view. See the edit summaries of the IP. Take care, Woodwalker (talk) 19:30, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Woodwalker! I've read the edit summaries, I've read (most of) the IPCC reports, I've read M&M, I've read (most of) the NCR report and as much of the Wegman report as I could stomach, I've read (some of) the leaked emails, and I've read (too many) uninformed editorials on the topic. As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the CRU emails that calls the current state of the science into question. I don't want to know what I've written over the last 13 years - I'm sure suitably motivated people will find plenty of stuff to tarnish my sterling reputation if they ever go through my archives with a fine-toothed comb or properly unfriendly grep. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:42, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah okay, then I trust you know what you're doing. I know what to do next time. Thanks, Woodwalker (talk) 19:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

CU and Scibaby

Why are you wasting time CUing Scibaby accounts which are WP:DUCK ? I am just indef blocking them on sight but the CU request makes reference to some politics which I don't know about? --BozMo talk 10:03, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I prefer to get some confirmation. If CU works fast, it also can work if there is not enough material for certainty based in behavior alone (it's not fast at the moment, though). Also, by having them checkusered, the CU database remains fresh, so it remains useful if less obvious socks appear. Also, we can document the problem better. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:06, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

CU not being fast at the moment isn't to do with the volume of requests? Every time I have tried in the past I just get told "we don't do obvious cases" but perhaps your charm or other persuasive skills are better than mine. --BozMo talk 12:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

National Review

Re , I added it as an attempt to compromise with Math.geek3.1415926 (talk · contribs) (though he seems to be not at all interested in a compromise). See the talk page. I'd suggest reviewing the top of that para for POV as well. The editor is blatantly misrepresenting what sources say. -- ChrisO (talk) 19:25, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

reply

Sheltered life it was then. And I have even read the Bernard Ramm bit on how the polar bears got back to the North Pole after Noah's flood. --BozMo talk 21:17, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Westpond is a weird country... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 01:04, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

You expected otherwise? Remember, we're the descendants of people who were kicked out of (or ran away from) all the civilized countries of their time. Dr. Dr. (Mr. M.D.) Arthur Resnick (talk) 04:44, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

This is not something which the rest of us ever forget. I was brought up that it was rude to look at an Australians ankles for a similar reason ;). --BozMo talk 20:56, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

sleeper sock

MuZemike may have gone to bed so I'll tell you too. Farnshon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a sleeper. Became active today, made 10 edits, then edited a semi-protected global warming talk page. Scibaby? ~YellowFives 06:57, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd say there is a >90% chance that this is scibaby. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 08:58, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

...and the case has just been closed (with another 10-15 identified). I'll be teaching all day today and have a meeting tomorrow at too early to fathom, so I won't do much about it today. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:02, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Blocked now by Seraphimblade. ~YellowFives 09:33, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Deep sleeper

It's likely that User:Telekenesis is an old sleeper of our friend. It was created right around the time that the original Scibaby and Obedium accounts were blocked and is behaviorally very very similar. Wonder how many more of these are stashed away? Dr. Dr. (Mr. M.D.) Arthur Resnick (talk) 04:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

What are the odds on BeachedOne being scibaby? (so far i'd say >80%) --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 11:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Using IPCC language, I'd say unlikely. -Atmoz (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh.

I didn't even read the remark. Wow. Hipocrite (talk) 16:46, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

ANI close

I'm not sure if you caught my edit summary. I appreciate your attempt to keep the thread open so that my comment could be responded to, but I feel the ANI dispute has run its course and is probably best left closed. Further discussion regarding future scenarios can be taken up in other areas, like the policy pages, or even my talk page. Please feel free to respond to my comment there, if that's what you intended to do at ANI. Thanks. Equazcion (talk) 17:01, 2 Dec 2009 (UTC)

This is much to reasonable a request for the reply I had in mind ;-). Let's just say I strongly disagree with your suggestion that all Jews (or other ethnic groups) should operation under an implicit COI assumption. It's a bit like asking blacks to voluntarily sit in the back of the bus... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:18, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Well I didn't mean in all situations, just the ones where they might be especially offended. As in my previous example, if you were a baker and found someone insulting the baking industry, assuming there were some indicator to the public of your baker status, chances are your action in that situation would be heavily scrutinized. It has at least the appearance of a possible COI. The way I see it, if I were an admin, the more offended I was in a situation, the more I'd hesitate to act. I think that's how it should work. Equazcion (talk) 17:23, 2 Dec 2009 (UTC)

That would imply that no decent admin should act on particularly egregious situations that offend all decent people. A reasonable appearance of COI requires more that a shared ethnicity or even a shared occupation. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:27, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

It's of course a sliding scale. A perfect system can't be conceived, but it's not a binary decision. We can try. Jurors who are decent people are chosen to rule on violent cases, but those with an especially outstanding COI risk are still dismissed. I'm not necessarily saying this should be policy, that Jewish admins can't act on questions on antisemitism; but still, admins should take such precautions upon themselves. And, in cases where it has happened, I don't think users should be admonished for pointing it out. If we wouldn't admonish them for pointing out the problem with the baker scenario (and I don't think we would), the social "touchiness" of ethnicity shouldn't mean they shouldn't be able to express a similar concern in that regard. Equazcion (talk) 17:35, 2 Dec 2009 (UTC)

Oh yes, it should. Bakers are bakers voluntarily, but people are born into ethnic groups. Moreover, there is a long (and ongoing) history of discrimination based on ethnicity, while discrimination against bakers is, well, a rare case. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:45, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure that it being voluntary or not should play a role. If the baker takes offense, do we say well maybe you should've thought of that before you became a baker? The history of discrimination only goes towards showing that a Jewish person having taken offense at possibly antisemitic remarks might be historically justified. It doesn't show that they can be seen as any more objective in those situations. The opposite actually, I would say. Equazcion (talk) 17:49, 2 Dec 2009 (UTC)

Since I was pointed here by Equazcion, would you mind terribly if I continued the discussion on this topic on your Talk page? Don't want to overwhelm your page on this subject, so I wouldn't mind if you'd rather just keep it between the two of you for now. — The Hand That Feeds You: 18:59, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

No worries. I can live with a yellow bar on top of my page ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay then. :) In response to Equazcion: your proposal would mean that, if we had a user insulting Martin Luther King Jr., a black admin could not intervene. Hell, what if we have a multi-racial admin? Should they stay away from all racial-related conflicts that affect their heritages? It just doesn't work out in any practical manner. If an admin displays a bias in matters relating to their race, it can be dealt with at ANI. And if an admin voluntarily discloses a bias, we can remind them to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

Finally, the big issue is that admins are not required to disclose their heritage at all. If someone accuses an admin of acting on behalf of a racial influence, the admin doesn't even have to disclose their race, which makes the whole thing moot. — The Hand That Feeds You: 22:52, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Again: If you read above, I'm not suggesting that this necessarily be policy, but admins should take such precautions themselves. If they feel offended or feel it might appear that they are acting out of personal offense, it would be smarter to recuse themselves and let someone else handle it. Furthermore the suggestion of impropriety by the supposed "victim" of it shouldn't garner admonishment; and in fact it usually doesn't, except in certain extra-sensitive scenarios such as this one, but it shouldn't, even here. Equazcion (talk) 22:59, 2 Dec 2009 (UTC)

I agree that admins should generally step away from issues they're too invested in. But that doesn't mean a Jewish admin should never step in when an editor is insulting Jews. Further, I totally disagree on your last point. An accusation of ethnicity-based impropriety with nothing to back it up should result in admonishment. — The Hand That Feeds You: 02:42, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

No, but, when any admin feels particularly offended, I think that's cause to hesitate in taking administrative action. An accusation maybe is cause for concern, but this wasn't an accusation. It was a polite request complete with a "please", for a non-Jewish admin to examine the situation. Equazcion (talk) 02:58, 3 Dec 2009 (UTC)

Which is what pushed the whole thing over-the-top. It implied that no Jewish admin could be trusted to make an objective decision, which really throws up red flags everywhere. — The Hand That Feeds You: 04:25, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I know. That's part of the problem as I see it, though not exactly a solvable one. Equazcion (talk) 08:37, 3 Dec 2009 (UTC)

T:GW

I accidentally removed one of your comments here. Sorry. Restore if you want. IMO, he could use a little time out. -Atmoz (talk) 22:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Never mind. The time out comment still stands. -Atmoz (talk) 22:25, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I was hoping

We might flush out loads of Scibaby socks with Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2009/Comments/William_M._Connolley but so far it is only providing known criminals. Hmm --BozMo talk 08:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Corrected your spelling hope that's ok --BozMo talk 10:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Sure, thanks! Well, that's one of the problems with anonymous voting - the socks can have a field day, and chances of finding them are much minimized (no behavioral clues, for example). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:30, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Clearly you are a partisan

You don't seem to want any criticsm on RealClimate. You are not being rational or fair. Worst still, heartland and Cato are both notable. Their websites attract about 100,000 visitors a month each, maybe even more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LVAustrian (talk • contribs) 18:53, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Number of visitors does not make the opinion of an organization notable. Moreover, both Heartland and Cato are partisan think tanks with a wide range of topics. How many of those visitors are interested in their web site reviews? Both have no demonstrated competency in climate change topics (and that puts it generously). Neither is a reliable source about anything but their own opinion - and this opinion has little to no impact worldwide. Their opinion on a science website is simply irrelevant. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:32, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

That would be your opinion. Dr. Michaels is a UVA professor of climate science. Cato and Heartland are cited by many major newspapers, their opinion in this regard is on RealClimate not science and quite frankly most peer reviewed academic articles have no impact at all. People are just reaching to eliminate dissent (LVAustrian (talk) 19:46, 3 December 2009 (UTC))

Michaels is retired and has a publication record that can only be described as mediocre, with fairly few citations for someone in his former position. And many of those cites are not in climate articles, but in social science articles where he is cited as the curious one out. However, if Cato and Heartland are cited by many newspapers, you should be able to find secondary sources who report their opinion on RealClimate. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:19, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

BLP does not allow blog-sourced exeptions

Re: Singer and the RealClimate-sourced criticism - BLP is clear on this, and there is no "expert" exemption for BLP. I've reverted. The source is self-published and critical of Singer himself (in the first line, no less). Further, the point is still made by the ABC-sourced sentence that remains. ATren (talk) 20:47, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Which sock?

Any clue which of the Obama and Global Warming socks User:Dalej78 is? --BozMo talk 20:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

And it seems one of our friends are back --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 03:06, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Another sock?

Maybe i'm getting paranoid here, considering all the scibaby socks, but it seems to me that this and this, combined with the very old fashioned signatures, look very much like socks. Should i request a CU? --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 01:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm. I think there has been a whole bunch of accounts that have been around anywhere between 2 years and 3 months, and that suddenly came alive. Its smelly, but I don't know what it smells of... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 01:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

The thing that struck me here is the almost exact subset of articles that they are interested in, and the signatures. They both started editing at NPRI. My guess is either socks or meatpuppets. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 01:33, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Possible. There is also User: HarmonicSeries, and others I'm to tired to find now - I'm off to bed. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 01:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Since you seem to be the go to person on this I thought maybe you would like to check out User:Brittainia. This editor seems to be canvassing other editors about a section they put in that got reversed. It showed up on multiple pages on my watchlist so I took a look and saw the contributions. If I'm wrong, please just ignore. Thanks, --CrohnieGal 15:17, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

She (?) has been with us for a while. Strong-opinionated and uninformed, but too naive for Scibaby, I think. I wouldn't be surprised if there is another nest of socks, but I don't think there is sufficient evidence at the moment. If she is Scibaby, either Scibaby is good at faking incompetence, or Scibaby really is a group. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:23, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Have you had time to look at this? I have almost zero experience in CU's, so i wanted a second opinion - it seems rather clear to me though. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 19:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Scientific material at article "Medieval Warm Period"

Because of your persistance in deleting scientific material I am going to take it up at the discussion page. You can submit any claims there. Wejer (talk) 17:38, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I have not deleted any "scientific material", but you have massively violated WP:BLP. My explanation is on the talk page. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Stephan Schulz

Re Stephan Schulz. Congratulations on your new-found fame, or otherwise. Permit me to offer you some advice: take the article off your watchlist :-) William M. Connolley (talk) 22:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

It's been there for quite a while. Up to now it lived in pleasant obscurity. I'll wait for a few days to see what's happening... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

To repay me for this, you must merge Conjunctive normal form and Clausal normal form and disambiguate "CNF" in your article appropriately; at least, I am pretty sure that they are describing the same concept. To be clear, as humor does not always translate well over text, this is completely tongue in cheek; I am perfectly capable of proposing the merge through the usual channels. And besides, a full merger is significantly more work than just a little copyediting. Also - is there a good subcategory of Category:Computer scientists by field of research for that article? - 2/0 (cont.) 05:51, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. At least I took out a wrong statement from Clause normal form. Yes, Clause- and conjunctive normal form are more or less interchangeable, although they sometimes have different connotations, with conjunctive normal form being properly structured formulae and clause normal form being sets of sets of literals. Both Category:Formal methods people and Category:Artificial intelligence researchers has theorem proving people, as the field sits right on the edge. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:18, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Mike's nature trick

Hi! I noticed you deleted the page at Mike's nature trick. I was hoping you could user-ify for me anything that was there, as I'd like to recreate the page with the appropriate sources and references (of course following WP policies).

Thanks! jheiv (talk) 09:05, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

The article I deleted had exactly one revision and consisted of #REDIRECT ]. I don't think that is very useful ;-). When creating this from scratch, be sure to use reliable sources (as it is a WP:BLP). Also, make sure you capitalize the title correctly (Nature is a proper noun). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Arbcom elections

This exchange raises serious concerns for anyone who edits controversial articles. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 15:52, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Red is green and 2+2 is 5. I've already performed my duty as a member of the people's proletariat and voted following good doctrine on those candidates I have some information on. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:14, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

E equational theorem prover

Hello Stephan. I happened to see an AfD on the article Stephan Schulz, which I guess is about you. This drew my attention to E equational theorem prover. This article, it seems to me, might be enhanced so as to be more understandable to non-specialists. It seems that the system is rather successful, but the article lacks introductory material. I have some awareness of the Knuth-Bendix completion algorithm via previous work in computer science, yet based only on what the article says, I would have no way of connecting up the article on E with that topic. (Though Automated theorem proving does succeed in explaining things a little better). Since E has won competitions, there might be a way to give examples of the problems it can handle. There is some hint that it can even do practical problems. (What was the Safelogic company doing with it, for example?) Please let me know if you might have some time to discuss improvement of this article. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 05:42, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ed! I'm quite ready to help improving the article. But I'm fairly deeply buried in this field, and don't exactly know where to start - much of the complexity is not specific to E, but rather to first-order logic and theorem proving. So far, the article mostly concentrates on what makes E special among theorem provers. Yes, some examples might help - E can do everything from classical puzzles of the Cluedo type to software verification tasks, encoded modal logic, and ontologies. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:17, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

In the 90s there was an equational theorem prover known as REVE that was based on Knuth-Bendix completion of a set of rules, using term rewriting. Can you say if E is able to solve problems in the same domain? I do recall there were issues about associative and commutative unification that caused issues for equational provers, and let to some thick journal papers. Is E beyond all that? Has it solved the previous set of difficulties, or is it a start in some other direction? EdJohnston (talk) 15:26, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

I've not heard of REVE before, but I've met its author - I started working in this area in 1990 or so. E is a prover for full first-order logic with equality, not just unit-equational logic like REVE. However, the system compiles first-order logic into clausal logic, and if the clauses all happen to be units (i.e. individual equations), the calculus will degenerate into a variant of unfailing KB-Completion. I'm fairly certain that E can prove most of the problems REVE could solve, and many that it could not. AC is still nasty, but E handles it via explicit axiomatization and some clever redundancy elimination in the search space. By now E is often given problems with an axiomatization that would probably not have fitted the disks in the age of REVE. See for a collection of problems we now work on. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

The story of the annual contests between theorem provers could probably be told in a dramatic way. This would be easier if we could highlight a few topics where the provers have become steadily better. Especially where there is a hint of practical value in the task (circuit properties, program correctness, etc). Occasionally there is an article in the popular media and I wish there were more. Since the only published articles on this topic seem impenetrable for non-specialists, the only way to create an intro-level WP article is probably if an expert such as yourself would help to find the material. EdJohnston (talk) 16:59, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

BTW

If you do get deleted then don't take it personally, it is more about publicity than results. You may not know it I have a brother with who is a Royal Society professor, FRS (Edin), FRS, British Society of Rheology Gold Medal winner, Institute of Physics Dirac Prize winner (here alongside Hawking et al), IoP Maxwell Prize winner, and an H-index of approaching a hundred (I can get to >60 just on Google scholar, which on citations goes 407,402,259,253..). But he has a low profile and likes a quiet life, so no WP article. If one was written he would probably request it deleted. --BozMo talk 07:55, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

William Connolley

Hi. I've explained my take on the desysop issue on the article talk page and would be interested to hear why you believe the proposed text violates WP:BLP.  Sandstein  08:56, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

See my reply on that talk page. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I tried a compromise. If you feel strongly tell me and I will self revert to save you an RR. --BozMo talk 09:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Edits to Hockey stick controversy

The previous version contained errors, which I corrected. I do not see any unsourced OR. Will you explain your edit? AlfBit (talk) 20:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

One thing that is unsourced, OR, and plain wrong, is the claim that the Hockey Stick was removed from all IPCC publications. Download AR3, it's still there. The entirely ordinary process that happened is that MBH98, the very first millennial reconstruction, was superseded by several new reconstructions (that, BTW, all or nearly all, live comfortably within the advertised error bounds of MBH98). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I think you mean the AR4 ;-) - the hockey-stick can be found in Chapter 6 in the AR4. As well as in the Technical Summary --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 20:35, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Star Wars kid...again.

Can you drop a few words at Talk:Star Wars kid#RFC about why we shouldn't include his name? Thanks. AzureFury (talk | contribs) 23:50, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Rajendra K. Pachauri

Could you consider semi-ing Rajendra K. Pachauri? Thanks, William M. Connolley (talk) 10:07, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm. While it's noisy, it does not seem to have major problems with new users and IPs. I'll keep an eye on it. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 11:01, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I would have to object to Rajendra K. Pachauri being semi`d. I know i am new here however wmc has yet to state an unbiased reason as to why the addition of Pachauri being asked to resign in an open letter due to his conflict of interests as shown in this article. Given the sources are reputable the only reason i can see for his insistence on there removal is due to WMC`s own conflict of interest with regards to any articles on climate change or those associated with it. Currently i see five editors who wish to have this addition added. I see three who do not. It would appear the current consensus is for the addition to remain. Thank you mark nutley (talk) 13:18, 22 December 2009 (UTC)