Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:20, 1 January 2006

If you have the capacity to tremble with indignation every time that an injustice is committed in the world, then we are comrades. – Che.

Southern Rhodesia draft:

Archived Discussions

Archive Sam Spade apology

RFA section

Dvyost RfA thanks

Thanks for your support on my RfA! Rest assured that I'll do my best to wield the mop with honor and righteousness. Cheers! --Dave 14:39, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh no! I've been admiring your work from a distance for some time now. Keep up the good work! El_C 17:09, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

And double thanks for this beautiful barnstar! I'll sport it with pride. --Dvyost 19:02, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

You more than deserve it! And I scarcely issue awards. :) El_C 16:28, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

RFA for Johntex

Hello, I want to thank you for your support of my RfA. I'm looking forward to using the new tools in the fight against vandalism. I hope I see you around Misplaced Pages soon. Best, Johntex\ 00:24, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Sure. El_C 11:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

My RfA (Jeffrey O. Gustafson)

Success!!! Thanks for your support! --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:04, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay! El_C 08:37, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks from Pamri

Hi, Thanks a ton for voting at my RFA. I am now a wikipedia administrator. I hope I can keep your trust. Thanks again. --Pamri 16:34, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure. All the best, El_C 12:37, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

RfA thanks (Physchim62)

Hi El C,

I am now an administrator and would like to thank you for your support on my RfA. I was very surprised at the number of votes and amount of and kind comments that I gathered. Please don't hesitate to contact me if I mess up in the use of my new powers. --GraemeL 15:53, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello there El C,

Thank you for supporting me on my RfA. It's Thanksgiving Day, too... so once again a big thank you! Have an awesome weekend! (If you celebrate Thanksgiving, that is.) I will do all I can for Misplaced Pages, to protect it from the alien scum of the universe... I mean, uh, from Willy on Wheels and Misplaced Pages is Communism!

-- Миборовский 06:57, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I would like to express my thanks to all the people who took part in my (failed) RfA voting. I was both surprised and delighted about the amount of support votes and all the kind words! I was also surprised by the amount of people who stated clearly that they do care, be it by voting in for or against my candidacy. That's what Wiki community is about and I'm really pleased to see that it works.
As my RfA voting failed with 71% support, I don't plan to reapply for adminship any more. However, I hope I might still be of some help to the community. Cheers! Halibutt 05:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi El C,

Thanks for voting to support my RfA. I wasn't expecting an unopposed promotion (I thought I'd hit some die-hard edit-counters at least) and I'm touched by the trust shown in me. I'll try my best to continue to earn that trust. But first, I'll have to work on not sounding like a politician; that last sentence was awful. Oh well. Let me know when I screw something up with the shiny new buttons. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 05:46, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello El C,

I just wanted to thank you for supporting me on my RfA. It finally closed with a tally of 22/0/0. I hope I can live up to the expectations of the entire community. If you ever need anything, please just let me know. Cheers!--May the Force be with you! Shreshth91($ |-| r 3 $ |-| t |-|) 00:55, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your support for my RfA. I will do everything I can to justify your trust in me. Awolf002 03:27, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear El C,

I would like to thank you for supporting me on my RfA. Even though it failed with a with the final tally of 55/22/6, I want to thank you anyways. I don't want to be one a admin anymore until I reach 10,000 edits now that it's over with. Thanks --Jaranda 03:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

My adminship request was successful!
Thank you so much for your support of my RfA. The results of the request was 18/0/1. With the help of your support vote, I am now a bona-fide Misplaced Pages sysop/admin. I pledge to use my newfound powers for the good of Misplaced Pages and its editors. If you have anything to tell me, dont hesitate to "speak on it"!. --LBMixPro

Hey El C! Thanks for your support on my RfA. The final outcome was (57/4/3), so I am now an administrator. If you need help, have a question, or just want to chat (or if I get out of line!), please don't hesitate to let me know! Again, thanks, and enjoy the free drugs! :D

Tomer

Hey El C! Thank you very much for your support on my RfA. To my amazement there were no negative or neutral votes and the result was (28/0/0). I am now an administrator so I'll try and do my best in this new position. I'll be happy to answer any comments or requests from you. Thanks one more time, Mihai - 20:30, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear El C, I wanted to thank you for your support during my recent RfA. :)

--Syrthiss 22:21, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

That's okay, think of how many RfA thank you responses I have to come up with... Congrats! Best, El_C 11:03, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

My RfA

You and me both! Congrats! El_C 12:00, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Yet another RFA thanks

I'm sure you will; well done. El_C 12:00, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Freakofnurture

Gracias, my RFA has passed, thanks to the support of you and 63 others. Might want to archive your talk page soon. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 06:58, Dec. 17, 2005

Never! Congrats, though. :) El_C 12:00, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Ianbrown's RfA

Ian ≡ talk 07:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Sweet juice! El_C 07:38, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

My RFA (SWD316)

I'm sure you will; don't be discouraged. Regards, El_C 05:17, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Yet another wonderful thank you note regarding your kind vote on my RfA (Joe Beaudoin Jr.)

Thank you for your support on my successful RfA. I appreciate the support and hope that I can be of assistance to this Misplaced Pages and my fellow Wikipedians! Happy Holidays to you and yours! -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. 04:01, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure. Congrats and happy holidays! El_C 04:05, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

malo's RfA

Nice; congrats. El_C 05:45, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you (I'd like to say hi to my mom)

Thank you for your support of my Rfa, El C. I am happy to announce that I have successfully been voted an administrator, and wish to say that I will work harder to make Misplaced Pages a more reliable source of information. I apologize if this seems impersonal but it is past my bedtime. Do you even read these anymore? Croat Canuck 06:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Read what? Is there an echo here? ;) All the best to you and your mom. El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Mon beau RfA

Sadly, I am too poor to afford shiny colored boxes and pictures. Nevertheless... Thanks for supporting my RfA. The final tally was a smashing 22/4/1. Deltabeignet 23:52, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

No box needed; congrats! El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

My RFA

Hey El C! Thanks for your support on my RfA. The final outcome was an unanimous (45/0/0), so I am now an administrator. If you need help, or have a question, please don't hesitate to let me know! Again, thanks! :D --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 03:37, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Will do, likewise; well done. El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Izehar's RfA

Hi El C,

Nice; congrats. El_C 22:42, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

My RfA

Hi Jefe! Thank you for your kind support on my RfA. -- Szvest 17:29, 25 December 2005 (UTC)  

My pleasaure, compadre; your box is orange, btw! :) El_C 22:42, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

My RfA

Thank you for supporting my successful RfA! Your trust means a great deal to me, and I promise to try my hardest to serve the community. —David Levy 06:41, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Good stuff. Now we can attend to the question of who is more notable, David Levy the astronomer or David Levy the Israeli politician. ;) El_C 01:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

RfA thanks from Deathphoenix

Hi El C (El Cid?),

I just wanted to thank you for supporting me in my RfA. To tell you the truth, I was surprised by all the support I've gotten. I never saw myself as more than an occasional Wiki-hobbyist.

My wife sends her curses, as Misplaced Pages will likely suck up more of my time. She jokingly (I think) said she was tempted to log on to Misplaced Pages just to vote Oppose and let everyone know that she didn't want her husband to be an admin.

I'll make sure your trust in me is founded. --Deathphoenix 15:13, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure. Nope, just El_C. :) Congrats. El_C 01:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

RfA

Thank you for your support in my request for adminship. I was promoted with a final tally of 31/1/1. Please don't hesitate to contact me if there is anything I can assist. --BorgQueen 22:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Congrats; will do.

My RfA

Hi El C, now that I'm an administrator, I just wanted to thank you for your support on my RfA. Although I think this should be (and probably will be) moved into your RfA section, I'll just leave it here so that you can find it easily. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:44, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Not at all, glad to have you

Thanks

Hello El C,

My pleasure, will do; congrats! El_C 07:13, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your RFA support

(: !חנוכה שמח El_C 11:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

a thank you for your support

Greetings El C, I wish to offer my gratitude for supporting me on my recent nomination for adminship, which passed with the final tally of 65/4/3. Although you seem disheartened at my disdain for some of Marx's writings, rest assured that I fight for economic egalitarianism just as you do. If you would ever desire my assistance in anything, or wish to give me feedback on any actions I take, feel free to let me know. Cheers! Elle vécut heureusement toujours dorénavant (Be eudaimonic!) 09:35, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Your deviationism we be tolerated... for now! Congrats! :) El_C 11:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Heads up

Thanks for the (unintentional, on your part) heads up on Stevertigo's RFA. Didn't realise Haukurth was up for adminship. I might forgive Steve what he said this summer, but H's comments displayed very poor judgement, and hey, RFA's are about whether you think you can trust a person. Guettarda 04:36, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

True; good point. You're welcome! El_C 04:52, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

The Muslim Guild

I thought you might be interested in joining The Muslim Guild.--JuanMuslim 06:46, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Hello. No time at present I'm afraid, but will look into it soon. Regards, El_C 22:56, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

User:Gibraltarian

Hi Jefe. I am sorry to bother but I witness a very annoying behaviour by a user called Gibraltarian. I believe you already know the user as he used to walk around Spain. Why I say annoying (as I am not involved in the edit warring there - neither anywhere else!) is because he already violated the 3R plus that he uses unacceptable language against his opponents in the edit summary while he never uses something called the talk page. Spoiler is found here . Cheers -- Svest 19:57, 28 October 2005 (UTC)  

Greetings. :) I'm afraid I'm not yet back to the extent of dealing with this issue effectively; but hopefuly I will be soon (next week). In the mean time, perhaps you should issue a notice on WP:ANI if things don't improve through dialogue. Let me know. Regards, El_C 22:56, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Jewish South African history

Hi: Please feel free to add material to the sparse article Jewish South African history. Thanks. IZAK 10:14, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Hello, I'll try to have a look at it next week when hopefuly I'll have more time. Regards, El_C 22:56, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Rhodesia (disambiguation) Page

Hi there. I have given the Rhodesia (disambiguation) page an overhaul in order to make it more consistent with the guidelines for disambiguation pages and to make the presentation more consistent as well. I figured it would be a five-minute job, but... you know how these things go. :) I have corrected a couple of dates that I am sure were incorrect -- e.g., you had Northern Rhodesia existing until 1963, but if Zambia didn't come into being until October 24, 1964, there's an unaccountable gap there. If I have not taken something into account, please let me know.

However, the main reason for writing is to ask for your help in sorting out some other dates, as I'd rather clear them up between us than have us operating at cross purposes. First I'll start with the good news: all of the dates in the Southern Rhodesia / Rhodesia / Zimbabwe Rhodesia / Zimbabwe section are consistent within that section. (Phew!) But some of the dates in the Northern Rhodesia / Zambia section are inconsistent and multiple dates between the two section are inconsistent.

With respect to Northern Rhodesia, I'm confused about anything before 1911. First, the first two items overlap, and the third item doesn't make sense when compared against the way you originally presented all of the rest of the information -- i.e., who governed North West Rhodesia and North East Rhodesia between 1900 and 1911?

Then there's date consistency between Northern Rhodesia and Southern Rhodesia. According to the second item under Northern Rhodesia / Zambia, the Rhodesia protectorate lasted from 1895 to 1900 (second item), but according to the information under Southern Rhodesia / Rhodesia / Zimbabwe Rhodesia / Zimbabwe it lasted from 1895 to 1901 (third item).

I guess what it boils down to is the following:

1. Clarifying the information for Northern Rhodesia before 1911,
2. Clarifying the overlap between BSAC-administered North Zambezia and the Rhodesian protectorate,
3. Clarifying the nature of the northern (small "n") Rhodesian entity after the Rhodesian protectorate and before Northern (capital "N") Rhodesia in 1911, and
4. Clarifying when the Rhodesian protectorate ended.

Thanks very much!

--Craig 14:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I only glanced at your changes; I don't have a lot of time to spare at present. Hopefuly I'll be able to attend to it next week. But on the surface, your changes and questions seem useful and in need of attention. I wrote that piece in 10 minutes or so, but at the time I was doing a lot of that reserach myself elsewhere, so it was fresh in my mind. The pre-1911 period has always been a gap because I've never researched it closely. For now, please have a look at my year-old draft at the top of the page for Southern Rhodesia and see if you can find anything useful in the narrative or reference section (though there is the gap in the early days which is about time was resolved). For Northern Rhodesia (which I am far less versed in), you could refer to Constitutional Development in Northern Rhodesia, 1890s-1964. Otherwise, I will try to get back to you as soon as I can. Thank you again for all your work. I am looking forward to further collaboration with you in the near future! Regards, El_C 22:56, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I wasn't actually expecting a reply until next month, considering you are supposed to be gone until the end of the month. :) If you don't mind, I'm actually going to copy this discussion over to the Talk:Rhodesia (disambiguation) page, as that would seem to be a better forum where other people might notice the discussion and join in. As for your article on Southern Rhodesia -- I have come across it before and seen your comments on other Rhodesia-related talk pages. It does look good and extensive and I will try and contribute if/where I can. --Craig (t|c) 10:24, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I was supposed to be back last week, the dates keep getting extended unfortunately, but I've been increasingly lurking. :) Yes, please do anything you can with the draft and/or its contents (long overdue since anyone, myself included, has touched it). Anyway, as for the disambig. page, sounds good, I will be joining you there soon! Thank you. :) El_C 17:09, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Voluntary Misplaced Pages Questionnaire

My name is Oliver Metz. I am a student at Brent International School, Manila, an International school located in the Philippines. I am doing my last year of school (12th Grade) and I am writing a research paper (about 4000 words) on Misplaced Pages in ITGS (Information Technology in a Global Society). Of 10 randomly picked people you have been chosen as one. If you are willing and have the time to answer a few questions I would be grateful if you could fill out a short questionnaire of 6 questions.

Some Information about my essay:

My essay topic is about the freedom to collaborate and the usage of the Internet as a tool to do so. I will analyze topics such as Altruism versus Egoism as well as the Product Misplaced Pages itself.

My Thesis Statement: The Internet is not only a medium for communication, information and marketing but also a place for altruism, collaboration and cooperation. Misplaced Pages is the product of a voluntary collaborative effort that defies commonly held beliefs about human nature.

If you have any further questions or requests you would like to pose before filling out the questionnaire I'd gladly answer them.

you can write to: taklung@gmx.net (I check this e-mail address regularly)

Questionnaire:

Please answer the following questions by either inserting the answers or sending them to me via e-mail. (*are not necessarily required).

Name*: Age*: Nationality*:

1. How long have you been contributing to Misplaced Pages?

A. Since Aug., 2004. El_C 06:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

2. Have you or are you planning to donate money to the Misplaced Pages cause?

A. I expecet Misplaced Pages to donate money to my cause! :) El_C 06:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

3. When you first heard of Misplaced Pages and the concepts it is based on, what did you think about it and did you believe it could work? What do you think now?

A. It sounded a bit sketchy and too anarchical (in some respects, it still is), but now that I realize indvidiual diffs (and in the future, possibly versions) can be cited, I can appreciate the level of reliability of information that can be offered by Misplaced Pages, even at this stage. And it has been a stage of growth (from the top 100 site in the world 3 months or so ago, to the top 50!). Finally, I think Misplaced Pages (and the name and form may change in the future) will be with humanity, in a sense, indefinitely, including after many crucial contradictions between human beings, how they relate to each other and to nature, have been negated & resolved. As an impetus for greater ideals, its tone, scope and quality of contributions/contributors will flourish and reflect these changes accordingly. El_C 06:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

4. Why do you think people contribute to Misplaced Pages? With it being voluntary what interests do/did you follow when contributing to Misplaced Pages?

A. I think there are many reasons, some more noble and altruistic than others. I started with a focus on certain areas of my specialization that were non-existent or barely existing. Now, however, I contribute to a wide veriety of articles: sciences and religions, countries and cities, historical events and persons, wars and conflicts, current news items, cats, and so on. Too many to try to classify in a breath. My watchlist contains many thousands of articles. El_C 06:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

5. Do you think that Misplaced Pages appeals to Altruism? If yes, do you think such a thing can exist in our society in which greed and consumption apparently drive the world?

A. It does appeal to it, I think, but also to its opposite (and, subjectively, which is which depends on one's vantage point). At the event, I have a grand vision for human society and the greatest confidence it will overcome its contradictions (hopefuly, in our lifetime!). It is difficult to communicate such notions to people in the First World, though (and most Misplaced Pages contributors are from the 1st World), because generally its inhabitants (many of whom should be seen, globally, as a labour aristocracy) have been so heavily indoctrinated with ideas and ideals that work to promote and enhance imperialism and keep the masses enslaved to the imperialists' destructive and brutal rule over our planet. To my knowledge, I am the only administrator who adopts this anti-imperialist, revolutionary stance. El_C 06:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

6. What do you think makes Misplaced Pages most beneficial to society?

A. It attempts to provide rationally-organized information on all possible notable subjects for free. Which is as it should be — knowledge should be free. And to a large measure, especially on less politically-charged topics, I think it suceeds, though there is still much work to be done, many topics to create and expand on, also in other languages (I've been inter-wikiing articles to-and-fro the Hebrew one, for ex., an account of which can be found here). El_C 06:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Further comments*:

C. I've met some wonderful people here and developed meaningful friendships (it's unlikely I'd still be here otherwise), and I've been inspired & educated by many others. Finally, I'd like to thank my cat! El_C 06:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

With kind regards,

Oliver Metz

Greetings, Oliver. My answers are indented and signed above. All the best to you with the paper. Any additional help I can offer, please don't hesitate to contact me here or via email. Regards, El_C 06:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer, will help me a lot! --TakLung 09:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Glad to be of service. :) all the best, El_C 11:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Naming conventions for articles on Jews

As there is a great deal of inconsistency in the naming of articles about Jews, I have proposed that they be made consistent. I'd appreciate it if you could commment on this here: Template_talk:Jew#Name_of_articles_on_Jews. Thanks. Jayjg 07:59, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I will look into it soon, Jay. Promise. Regards, El_C 16:28, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Grr. I hope. We'll see. El_C 11:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Would you consider weighing in?

Jayjg has been cantly restoring a statement on the Golan Heights having Israel's only ski resort at the Israeli-occupied territories article. You are aware of the fuss he made about how references to anything as trivial as water resources don't belong in that article. My relationship with Jay is such that there is no point in my trying to discuss anything with him, so would you leave him a message at his talk page requesting that he refrain from putting information he apparently considers "crap" back into the article? If he continues to misbehave, your action would complete a step in my formal complaint against him. Marsden 14:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I will weigh in soon; I'm having unexpected difficulties on various key fronts and varying severites, sorry. Yes, the water issues needs to be mentioned, as I already commented (now archived) it's important that it does. But as to what extent, balanced with what, or within the context of (linking to) which article, those are all matters that are yet to be discussed. I'm confident Jay is open to reason on these questions and am hopeful that you will end up modifying your claims of belligerant conduct. I hope that both of you will opt to conduct yoursleves with utmost moderation until a comprehensive solution can be sketched (rather then expending energy needlessly on somewhat-detached increments of it). Hope that makes sense; I'm wriring in haste. Regards, El_C 16:28, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

In light of the highly dissapointing reoccurence of personal attacks and the acrimonious exchanges I briefly glanced at (& possibly there are others I missed), I find it unlikely I will choose to weigh in in the near future. Far too much conflict and negative energy for me at this time. El_C 11:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Assumptions

See also: TShilo12/RFC/Amalekite El_C 18:25, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

You wrote on Haukurth's RfAr that, "As for your assumptiveness regarding what I was/am driven by ("hating correctly," and so on; not to mention assumptiveness that I even hate, to begin with!), that reflects poorly on you, I challenge."

I thought I'd move this here. While I said I didn't think it worth pursuing this further, I dislike bearing people animosity and having them bear it towards me. Earlier on Haukurth's RfAr, I was testy and rude, for which I apologise. In truth, I really don't understand what you are driven by, and, in particular, I do not understand why you got so upset about our position on Amalekite. However, most of my anger towards what you've said in the past is because you have also made assumptions about motivations, assumptions that, to me, seem very unfair and unwarranted. You had concluded, for whatever reason, that Amalekite advocates had some sort of "discreditable agenda" and were acting "as far from good faith as is imaginable". You expressed your "revulsion". Think about it — that's actually an incredibly strong thing to have written. Sure, maybe you could have told us that we should have been more supportive of and sensitive to our fellow Wikipedians, or that we had overlooked the gravity of Amalekite's attack on certain Wikipedians, but that we were "as far from good faith as is imaginable"...? It is quite hard to interact amicably with someone who believes such a thing about you, and who, moreover, then goes on to say that it is true "ten-fold". If you argued that myself and others were insensitive, then I also challenge you that your remarks on this have also been insensitive.

I don't know how I could convince you, and I guess it doesn't matter much either way, but I will simply assert that I advocated for Amalekite because I thought he deserved to be treated fairly according to our banning rules, just like anyone else. My agenda and motivation was fairness, and I acted in good faith according to a principle that I hold; namely, that we shouldn't discriminate against someone simply because of their beliefs (regardless of how offensive those beliefs are).

Anyway, I would hope we could bury the hatchet and move on to something more interesting (like writing encyclopedia articles and all that). — Matt Crypto 22:49, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

If you read my flipside more closely, you will see that I support that notion of fairness. But, I'm sorry, I could no longer assume goodfaith after all the circularities I witnessed on the mailing list, ones which repeated the same arguments but failed to respond to the counter-arguments. As for myself being (counter-)insensitive, of course. But I don't see how I could have accurately communicated that any less forcefuly, nor gone into lengthy elaborations with my protest after all that had already been said on wikien-l. As I said then, I think the principles got mixed —and unfortunately irrationally entrenched, too— with the specifics of the case. It's highly unlikely I will compromise on that point, but I could reiterate and elaborate why that is further, if there is interest. Sure, I'm willing to let the whole thing go; I wasn't even going to comment on his RfA, initially. El_C 23:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Turning point

Had MCrypto replied via email, or made a conciliatory statement such as we'll have to agree to disagree, etc., I have no doubt that Haukurth would have won the RfA. His comment and the exchange that followed bellow, I maintain, speaks volumes as to the insensitivity I alluded to. El_C 00:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Your comment above appears to be that, "you guys read our arguments -- and nobody who read our arguments could fail to be convinced -- so therefore if you persist in opposing our position you must be arguing in bad faith for some nefarious reason". You seem to be saying that we weren't convinced by the mailing-list arguments, and that the only possible explanation for this was that we secretly had diabolical intentions to debate just for the sake of it and stir up trouble. There are, however, plenty of alternative explanations, and it's unclear why you settled on your particular conclusion. For example, maybe we genuinely were just not convinced by the arguments provided by your side — you seem to have discounted that possiblity out of hand. Or maybe we didn't understand your arguments. You point out circularities in our reasoning — maybe we're just stupid. Maybe we were naive in our evaluation of Amalekite. You point out that we didn't address your arguments properly; maybe we are just bad debaters. There's plenty of explanations, but you jumped to just one conclusion — the wrong one, as it happens. Moreover, when you jumped to that wrong conclusion, you expressed it in an very strongly-worded personal attack, and that's quite likely done more damage to Misplaced Pages and offense to users in good-standing than Amalekite himself ever did. — Matt Crypto 13:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

You reap what you sow. Again, assumptive – about myself not having taken those (& other) considerations into account with my conclusion: from principles to an unprincipled point. And I didn't say secrtely anything (on the contrary, I qualified it in rather heterogeneous terms, in fact). No Jewish editor should have to defend editorial work to —and engage in discussions on these with— editors who profess that they should be killed for genetic reasons. Not to mention after having made it well-known in holding that position and attempted to organize the like-minded via a hit list (real risk) at worse, and (most definitely) a hate list, at best. If that's respecting policy and act in good faith — I'm out. P.S. Please try your best in aiming at utmost concision. El_C 15:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Note that Matt Crypto's (substantive answer) began with two key words: why not? El_C 11:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi! Maybe I can chime in here too. I think that extended mailing list exchanges tend towards circularity. New people join the discussion and maybe only read the newest letters. Then they miss some of the background that had been established already and may come up with arguments that, one feels, have been countered already. It can be tiring but it's important to keep assuming good faith. I think that the thought comes especially easily to one that the other side is repeating themselves without taking one's own detailed and eloquent counterarguments into account. During the debate on User:Amalekite I personally felt that those in favor of the ban were repeating the same things without properly addressing what the rest of us were saying. Your perceptions were, it seems, exactly reversed. This is natural. It doesn't mean anyone was acting in bad faith. Assuming so is not helpful. Openly declaring one's revulsion with other people is also not helpful. There is no reason to accurately communicate such feelings and much reason to keep them to oneself. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 07:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

There is and was a reason there; your equatations seem subjective, disproportion to the situation, & thereby, self-serving. If that was anything resembling a natural debate, then obviously Misplaced Pages isn't the place for me but is one for the banned user and associated tactics. Users who, according to an inexplicable fringe minority, was respecting policy and acted in good faith. I feel pretty revulted right now on account of such views. I'm opting to, again, ignore your advice and not keep any of this to myself. As for what amounts to tiring versus a coma and unhelpful vs. needed, it's obvious we still don't see eye to eye; likely we never will. El_C 10:24, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Excuse my intrusion, but I'd like to comment on something Haukur said here. I followed the entire debate, from start to finish. And my opinion did a 180 flip based on the discussion and arguments made. Initially, while I have no problem with the idea of blocking a nazi, I didn't think off-Misplaced Pages posts really justified blocking. But once I heard the arguments and saw the stuff he had posted, made the trip over and read the posting and all that - by the time I had seen what it really was about I realised that we had an obligation to do whatever we can to protect editors. Blocking may have limited effectiveness, but it's what we can do. On punitive grounds alone he should have been blocked. El C's other point is equally valid though - you can't AGF someone who has said that you should not exist. Perhaps if you have never felt the sentiment you can't understand it - but to have to work alongside someone who believes you should not exist, simply because of who you are, poisons the environment to say the least. Guettarda 15:25, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I can appreciate the sentiment. But I'm still hesitant to ban people because they hold unpleasant opinions. Many people believe that everyone who does not belong to their particular religious sect deserves not merely to die but to suffer agonizing pain for thousands of years. To me that's a chilling opinion but many of us interact politely with people who believe this every day. And while they don't try to act upon their beliefs they are tolerated. From User:Amalekite's contribution log and his posts to Stormfront and VNN I see no evidence that he was acting in bad faith on Misplaced Pages. And we assume good faith unless we have overwhelming evidence to the contrary. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 15:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Not genetically, though, you can't in theory or practice (unlike religion or ideology) convert genetics — that philosophical overtone in inescapable. As mentioned, I'm not interested in hating anyone, not lest "hating correctly, but as for your depiction of such a view amounting to an unpleasant opinion, I want to stress that there is, in fact, a limit where moderation becomes its opposite. If you continue to note these sort of exterminationist notions through such insultingly understated terms, I'm going to have to insist you withdraw from this talk page. El_C 16:03, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I feel unable to continue the discussion on these terms. Thank you for the correspondence. I hope you continue to edit Misplaced Pages usefully and tirelessly as you have in the past. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 17:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Rather unpleasent terms they are; abhorent, even. Yeah, same to you. El_C 17:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

To the reader: I reverted Matt Crypto's allegations of highly offensive and deeply hypocritical pretty darn Nazi-like comments directed at myself (also reverted him beforehand: here). If he places any further comments here, please treat and revert these as vandalism. TIA. El_C 17:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Note of third reversion. I reiterate my request: please treat MC's edits here as vandalism. TIA. El_C 17:48, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Note of 4th reversion (the contents of what was reverted are contained in the respective diffs; they are not being purged abysmally within the talk page's revision history, as was insinuated, unfairly, after I added the diffs, which is to say: immediately upon the reversion). I wish for Matt Crypto to refrain from editing this talk page — I am obviously (obviously) not interested with any sort of discourse with him (especially; or anyone, in general) at this time. TIA. El_C 18:07, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Armenian genocide - Position of the Turkish government

Hi,

Your input would be appreciated on the Armenian Genocide article, there is a section entitled "The position of the Turkish government" which is meant to show the governments official policy. The following sentence was added to that section:

"But although Turkey claims that the Armenian massacres do not constitute genocide because of the aforementioned reasons, its former Turkish Prime minister Bülent Ecevit, in April 2002, accused Israel of carrying out genocide against the Palestinians, and a leading lawmaker from Turkey's governing Justice and Development Party has accused the United States of committing genocide in Fallujah."

I removed that sentence because the view of the former PM and Mehmet Elkatmis were not representative of the government or linked in any way to government policy. They were misplaced personal opinions which are being construed as proving the alleged hypocrisy of the government. I have tried to make clear that Turkey does not have and never has had a policy of accusing the USA or Israel of genocide, those statements are the opinions of the ministers in question and should not be used in an argument trying to imply double standards by the government.

There is a discussion here

Your input would be appreciated. --A.Garnet 11:36, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello again, A. Granat. I'm afraid I don't see myself becoming active with such disputes and work in the near future, sorry. Nevertheless, I still fail to understand why this needs to be so complicated. You bring forward an important point of not conflating the official Govt. position with non-official, personal comments made by distinguished politicians. Why not simply qualify that: fairly, honestly and objectively? HTH, somewhat. Regards, El_C 11:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes i did not wish for it to become complicated. I have stated clearly: You cannot include something which is not the position of the Turkish government, in a section about the position of the Turkish government. The problem is user:Fadix deflects simple problems by introducing a 101 questions and irrelevant details and then accuses me of having a history of deleting relevant information. Tony_Sidaway shares my view and I will remove it again as i said i would. I dont know what HTH means by the way. Thanks, --A.Garnet 13:31, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

By HTH I meant hope this helps, A.Garnet. Best of luck to you in resolving the dispute. Regards, El_C 19:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Survey vote

Hi Jefe. I'll be glad to see you casting your vote at this survey; Misplaced Pages:Western Sahara Infobox/Vote. I hope it's time to find a solution to a longstanding wikipedia conflict. I've avoided it since a long time now but as the warriors from both sides finally decided to solve it by a vote, than it's a great opportunity. Thanks in advance. -- Svest 20:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC)  

Greetings, Fayssal. Nice to see a friendly face. :) Thank you for bringing this discussion & vote to my attention. It being (the infobox, that is) an important component to the entire editorial dispute over Western Sahara and how it and its status should be depicted on Misplaced Pages (and with an overall solution that has long been overdue). I havne't clicked on my watchlist in well-over a week (likely I won't for a few more), so I could have easily ended up missing this. I do promise to offer my opinion, though likely not for a while, but at most in a few weeks (well, at the very least a few days before the polls close). Thanks again. Regards, El_C 21:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Jefe! It's a deal. I see you being busy lately. Just promise me that you won't commit a wiki-suicide and leave the cat alone!!! (ref. to your newly user page) -- Svest 00:37, 3 November 2005 (UTC)  

The love boat has crashed against the everyday. Heartbreaking. All that aside, the-cat-came-back, as per your request. El_C 08:37, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Zephram Stark

Hi, Fred Bauder has drafted a finding of fact describing the focus of the dispute in the Zephram Stark arbitration case, and has added it to the proposed-decision page at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Zephram_Stark/Proposed_decision#Focus_of_dispute, where it is currently being voted on. It says:

"The focus of this dispute is the article terrorism which according to Zephram Stark deteriorated due to the aggressive editing and other actions of Jayjg and SlimVirgin. He has waged a campaign to restore what he considers an adequate article, free of the complex ambiguities introduced by his opponents, see Talk:Terrorism/Archive_6#NPOV_solutions and Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Zephram_Stark/Evidence#ZS.27s_changes_to_Terrorism."

I feel this is not an accurate way to summarize the dispute. Would you mind taking a look, please, and perhaps commenting on it? The discussion is taking place at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Zephram_Stark/Workshop#Focus_of_dispute. Many thanks, SlimVirgin 20:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Not right now, sorry. But I'm not sure I find it inaccurate as much as I do highly lacking & partial. I'll be happy to discuss this behind closed-doors via email with you. This will also provide us a chance to furhter conspire on how to best silence our opposition elsewhere, in service of those ideals that we share & in dis-service to WP due to the absence of transperency that our insidious, self-serving correspondence will undoubtedly bring upon the project. Exhaustively yours, El_C 21:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Tony Sidaway RfC

Hi, I saw you strike out a comment on my RfC. If it's any issue I can help with, don't hesitate to ask. --Tony Sidaway 21:06, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely, I will, Tony. I need a chance to regain my composure so I'm able to compose myself effectively. Thanks. El_C 21:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I decided I'm not prepared to discuss any of this here beyond the following: The issue is that my confidence in your judgment has been seriously shaken; but this should not impact on our professional relationship. If you do wish to learn more, though, don't hesitate to ask. If not, then no worries, I'm unlikely to make any further edits to the RfC in such an event (not to imply that being a consideration). El_C 08:37, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Mizrahi Jews

El C, when you're feeling better would you mind taking a look at Talk:Mizrahi Jews and commenting on the "Origins", "Originate" issue here: ? Thanks. Jayjg 22:08, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

May be a while before I can attend to it, so I hope you manage to find an interim compromise. As I said before (I think), 'tis largely just a matter of how to present the periodization; which can be remedied without loss of accuracy through a slight rewrite of that passage. Yours, El_C 12:37, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I seem to have lost track of what was what, but I did mamange to re-add David Levy, again! El_C 00:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Note on Silverback's attacks

In the case anyone is reading Silverback's talkpage in isolation, please review this. Thanks. El_C 14:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Please also review the response here --Silverback 10:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I find that very confusing since a. I was unware Silverback accused me (yes, again) of being these users' (who, it's difficult to tell: "Bishonen and that lotus eaters person"?) sockpuppets. And b. My protest pertains to an unrelated attack documented above and elsewhere, namely: support people and philosophies that think abuse is OK in order to get them what what they want and the followup implied insinuation that even indiscriminate support for RfAs can be a strategy for allowing a threshold number of those you agree with to be elected. (italics are my emphasis). El_C 11:09, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Action, reaction, symposium

I might have seen your point this time. ;-) Been told earlier to read that book, will get around to it now. I remember that I read "1984" when I was a kid (25yrs ago) and thought it was a very slow action novel; I preferred JLondon as his books were more exciting and didn't have any boring politics in them. :-) Yeah; Hegel, Marx.. "the volatile nature of its underlining contradictions" is something that always scares me. Sort of paralyzing though, leads to so many contradictions. In my 'real life' I go through periods of apathy cause I get stuck on the potential consequences of my actions. Around here I tried to attack the nobility as well as being pre-emptive in terms of the second wave; change the paradigm if you will. That was at least the plan. Do you think in terms of paradigms here on WP? I'm no Marxist as I don't believe in the possibility of the synthesis (i.e. utopia, worker's paradise); would perhaps have been one in a previous life but as it is now I've noticed that The Power has learnt to overthrow itself every once in a while to give the appearance of change - a side effect of the constant advancement of technology, increasing consumerism, information, etc. To form any kinds of progressive movements takes time, and it feels like humanity's collective memory doesn't amount to more than that of a goldfish anymore. And as people are no longer the same necessity for production (they even work for free to edit encyclopaedias) the shift of balance is irreversible. That's why I not only admire but also envy Allende, when he did what he did he did better than most, and (naive or not) he died fighting for what was good. I'm no Kant but it gets hard to live if everything is relative and based on what might become. Practicality is hard to measure. Sometimes battles that can't be won are the one that matters the most. Cliches; I'm well aware of, but still. I imagine a paper edition of WP in every schoolroom in Africa, and I see how they read and learn a version of reality that isn't true, but according to the Wikians, will become true once they/we all believe it. What if you have changed a few things/articles here and there? Will they get through the final proofreading? Even if they do, won't they simply lend credibility to the project? Knowing China as I do (not in the biblical sense) I know they will put out their own WP, and then it's the same old war with/over people's minds. This is why I believe in encouraging multiple inter-revolutions all over the place; Jews against Jews, Muslims against Muslims, Americans against Americans, Transsexuals against Transsexuals, and so forth. This was a particularly long and incoherent rant on my part. I would very much appreciate comment/expansion from you, preferable a 10-lines per sentence one.. :-) You can post here, on my user page, or email at dervishtsaddik at yahoo.com. Also, I might have misunderstood what you meant with the phrase; "but so is the volatile nature of its underlining contradictions", which would (possibly) make parts of this post irrelevant, but it's too late to go back now. :-) Will read the book. I, in return, recommend La caverna de las ideas by José Carlos Somoza which also has the author writing both 'the original manuscript' and the footnotes. Regards. --saxet 04:40, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Again with the moral philosphy! Yeah, it read to me fairly incoherently and all over the place, but that's okay! :) I am willing to give 100 lines for every sentence and answer every question comprehensively, once you read the The Iron Heel (not only to Remember Allende and others, but also to draw lessons). If you wish to tread in waters deep, a literary masterpiece swim is in order. So please read it closely whenever you get a chance and get back to me then for then at length. I'll try to check out that book when I get a chance, thanks for that. Regards, El_C 10:23, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Finally we're both incoherent and muddled. ;-) And for the record, you invited me to this conversation - the only reason I posted on your user page was because Marsden so rudely kicked us out from his. :-) Yeah, you're likely to find that moral philosophy is something that you will encounter for the rest of your life, even if you do something as mundane as feeding your cats, there will be moral philosophers out there discussing whether it's right to keep pets, et cetera. People who tries to escape the 'confines' of morality tend to be either atheistic psychopaths (I am all that matters) or religious fundamentalists (God is all that matters); some irony in that I think. Like cults, they always fail though. Last Jlondon book I read was The Sea Wolf so I'm looking forward to reacquaint myself with those waters. Talk to you later then. I'd also like to recommend The Island of the Day Before by Umberto Eco, and Dissemination by Jacques Derrida. Best of Luck. --saxet 16:33, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not being muddled, as will become clear! ;) Simply because I find no practical use for moral philosophy does not of course mean being devoid (or attempting to escape the confines) of morality (nor an inablity to understand moral philosophy), on the contrary. The conclusion is based on an initial false premise, and relates to my view on "philosophy," in general. Will try to check those out. Talk to you then. :) El_C 19:39, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

to-Kitten ועת Kitten עת-to

כי-עת לכל-חפץ, ועל כל-המעשה שם
.(to die) ועת למות (give birth) עת ללדת
,(to uproot) ועת לעקור נטוע (to plant) עת לטעת
;(to heal) ועת לרפוא (to kill) עת להרוג
,(to build) ועת לבנות (to breach) עת לפרוץ
,(to laugh) ועת לשחוק (to cry) עת לבכות
.(to dance) ועת רקוד (to eulogize) עת ספוד
;(to gather stones) ועת כנוס אבנים (to cast stones) עת להשליך אבנים
.(to distance from hugs) ועת לרחק מחבק (to hug), עת לחבוק
,(to lose) ועת לאבד (to seek) עת לבקש
.(to abandon) ועת להשליך (to keep) עת לשמור
,(to stitch) ועת לתפור (to tear) עת לקרוע
.(to speak) ועת לדבר (to keep one's silence) עת לחשות
,(to hate) ועת לשנא (to love) עת לאהב
.(to foster peace) ועת שלום (to wage war) עת מלחמה

It almost makes sense (almost!). Thanks, I appreciate the gesture, esp. in feline form. I'm afraid I remain too shaken from the event to establish dialogue at this time; I think I was more traumatized by developments in and outcome of your RfA than you were. So, I'll get back to you in a few weeks; I still need some time reorient myself with a few issues, and also, somehow, I seem to suddenly be knee-deep in combatting eristic stratagems. We'll see how that works out for me. At any rate, talk to you then. Thanks again. El_C 00:42, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Block of Marsden

El C, while I'm sure you're not particularly happy to see me posting here, I feel I should ask you to unblock User:Marsden, as it does not fall within the provisions and procedures of our blocking policy. In particularly, personal attacks are not grounds for blocking, and it is very inappropriate to block a user who has attacked you specifically, as it can have the appearance of an admin using his powers to settle personal disputes. If this user's behaviour is problematic, please try one of the normal means of dispute resolution (RfCs, RfAr etc). — Matt Crypto 19:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

That's correct, I'm not pleased to see you. And I disagree with your assessment. He has attacked many others (not just myself) and has been warned multiple times that this counts as disruption. Do not unblock this time; raise the issue on WP:ANI if you have objections. El_C 19:08, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• Every-single admin on WP:AN concurred with my position and against Marsden & Matt Crypto's "normal means of dispute resolution" one. El_C 09:52, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Whitewashering

I'm Famekeeper, lost my cookie again. Do help me protect WP from the whitewashing: I call for final "arbitration" against Str1977, no more dilly dally , all the way out with him . No reply needed .EffK 03:43, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I would like a chance to reply, though (!). Hello, again, Famekeeper. I keep telling you, as I have three times in te past: I am not —nor have I ever been— involved in, not to mention am at all familliar with this dispute (I can't confess being able to recall the name Str1977 – no offence to Str1977; likely the same is true vice versa). Best of luck in resolving it. I'm afraid I'm unable to involve myself at this time. El_C 09:52, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Fronts and cutouts

After reading the article Agent handling I was appalled by not only the editorial style but also by some "facts" that appear to be Original Research. For example: “The extensive use of cutouts, so long as they are trusted and reliable persons, can become a long chain of individuals. This performs another purpose, similiar to the extensive use of "front organizations"; by their sheer number, it becomes a shell game with counterintelligence investigators, who have finite and limited resources. When suspicion arises, the large number of persons and organizations connected to the conspiracy can devour endless hours and cost, which has the effect of slowing down the process of exposing an espionage organization.” . Would you be so kind and review that article to see if any improvements can be made? Thank you in advance. Dearlove Menzies 16:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Can I suggest changing the above "conspiracy", to "operation"; "conspiracy", presupposes a legal verdict. nobs 19:03, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not especially familliar with and have not followed closely the article in question. I'll try to give it a cursory glance soon. Regards, El_C 00:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Request for Arbitration

You have been requested to appear as a plantiff an arbitration case. Comments have been added on your behalf. If you wish to add comments please contact me. Here is a link to the case Davidpdx

It's about time; I'll try to add to the RfAr soon. In the meantime, I am comfortable with the statements you issued on my behalf. Thanks. Regards, El_C 00:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration accepted

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Johnski has been accepted. Please place evidence at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Johnski/Evidence. Proposals and comments may be made at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Johnski/Workshop. Fred Bauder 04:09, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Noted, thanks. El_C 02:25, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Talk Page

I have created a special arbitration talk page. This is to discuss what evidence we want as a group and to present and make recommendations before putting them on the arbitration page. Please feel free to make suggestions here. Davidpdx 07:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, will try to attend to it soon. El_C 02:25, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Last Call

Ok guys, this is a last call for evidence. No one has posted evidence besides myself. At the end of this week, I'm going to let the Arbitration Committee know that we are done.

When recommendations are made, I will need you guys to check in and sign on that you agree with them. Otherwise this will be all for not. I intend on asking for a six month ban for Johnski from Misplaced Pages as well as 1 year probation from editing DOM related articles. Davidpdx 01:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

It will not be for naught (only the time wasted needlessly for many months has been), your evidence is so comprehensive, I don't see a point in adding to it. I support, of course, barring the editor/s from (even loosely) DoM-related articles (a year sounds good), but as for the specifics of the formula, I'm remain open to suggestions. Thanks for all your tireless work on this. Regards, El_C 12:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Marsden is back

User:Marsden is back, using his IP address, 69.138.215.194 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), and apparently spending most of his time reverting those he doesn't like, or who he has been asked to revert. I'm considering a 48 hour block for disruption; comments? Jayjg 16:11, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I would rather not comment at this time; once unblocked, please revert any edits he makes to this talk page on-sight. Thanks. Regards, El_C 00:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Just trust the fastest gun in the Old West. :-) Bishonen|talk 01:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm in position; you take point! El_C 04:26, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Climate-change Arbitration re-opening request

There is a request, of which you are a party, to re-open the climate-change Arbitration case here. I thought that you might be interested to comment, or at least observe.

Yours sincerely,

James F. (talk) 02:18, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice, James, and for the thoughtful opinion. Regards, El_C 02:25, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration re-opened

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate change dispute 2 has been re-opened. Please place evidence at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate change dispute 2/Evidence. Proposals and comments may be placed on Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate change dispute 2/Workshop. Fred Bauder 01:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Noted, thanks. El_C 08:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Remove block

Hello EL C, could you please do me a favour. I am a member of WP:AMA and Nixer (talk · contribs) contacted me about something. He has been blocked for 48 hours for violating the 3RR (Block log), and the block is due to expire at 10:02, 25 November 2005 (UTC) (tomorrow) (Blocked usernames). According to WP:3RR: after your fourth revert in 24 hours, sysops may block you for up to 24 hours. Nixer has been blocked for 48 hours - the sysop who blocked him wasn't authorised to block him for that long. He has already been blocked for roughly 24 hours (he was blocked 24 hours ago), so could someone please remove the block. WP:3RR authorises blocked users to ask a different administrater to unblock them, so that would be allowed. Thanks. Izehar 09:54, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Izehar. I would'nt unblock without discussing the matter with dab, and it is wholly incidental that I have great respect for his judgment (not only due to the fact that he was the one who nominated me for adminship), I would do the same & investigate matters closely no matter who the admin in question is. Unfortunately, I simply can't spare the time to investigate the case at present, I'll be here for another twenty minutes or so and then likely won't be back for half a day. So the best advise I could offer would be for you to place a notice with your concerns on WP:ANI. Best of luck to you all in resolving these issues to everyone's satsifaction. Sorry I could not be of more help. El_C 10:12, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

OK - thanks anyway. Izehar 10:20, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Sure. El_C 10:27, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Agriculture and scare quote-punctuation

Hi!

The relevant section of the MoS is the one, the anon linked: Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style#Punctuation.

Under quotation marks it says:

When punctuating quoted passages include the mark of punctuation inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the mark of punctuation is part of the quotation. This is the style used in Australia, New Zealand, and Britain, for example. (A fuller treatment of the recommendations given here can be found in Fowler's Modern English Usage and other style guides for these countries, some of which vary in fine details.) "Stop!", for example, has the punctuation inside the quotation marks because the word "stop" is said with emphasis. When using "scare quotes", however, the comma goes outside.

Scare quotes are quotes used like "this". Basically, any quotes that aren't used in direct quotations are scare quotes.

Though it might be cool to make it to Misplaced Pages:Lamest edit wars ever, I hope we can work it out peacefully :-) Rasmus (talk) 12:52, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Heh, I'm just being an idiot at this point(?), don't mind me. :) El_C 12:59, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Greetings from Paris

Hello El C,

I noticed your visit to the "Paris" page (you reverted some spam methinks) so thought I'd come by for some advice and maybe some criticism as I am new here (well, six months. Pass that towel) and basically still a Wiki wallflower as far as relations here go. Pleased to meet you, and my thanks in advance for any advice. Sorry if this goes on; I type fast and, frankly, I'm a bit peeved.

What it comes down to is this: I saw the Paris page in a sorry shape and, being a bit of a buff on the matter (natively English-speaking, I have lived (in) it and studied it since '89), decided to try to clean it up a bit. Until today I have hardly been able to change a line.

My first attempt at a relatively minor edit resulted in my being "put in my place" and being told to wait for "board consensus" - I then apologised, replaced everything, and have been waiting ever since. Well, not really waiting - since the summer when this began I set up my own "sandbox" user page to try out some edits, and I posted its existence to the discussion board. No answer. It grew with time, and with time my edits ended up covering almost everything contained in the Paris page - as even the pages' very structure was incoherent, and its content very different from any other page (let alone encyclopaedia entry) on Paris.

My "proposed changes" posts on the discussion board grew to outrageous lengths as well (since removed) while I waited, yet I eventually ran out of patience and noted what I intended to change in the near future. I was then told by a certain user that I had better not change anything or I will "suffer massive reverts from other users" - yet in having a look at the page's history (which I hadn't thought to do until then) I saw that in fact almost the whole page had been written in its statistical "bigger than" way by the very person who had "warned" me. And when finally I did make a change it was only he who made reverts and it's been the same ever since. His reasons for doing so are always "citationingly encyclopaedic" supports of his POV, but never anything near valid enough to merit a total revert. Did I mention that someone thought the section in question so bad that he felt obliged to complain about it? Not a letter of it has changed, nor will its authour allow anyone to change it. The article in question has even become a revert war between the London and Paris pages because the Paris authour insists on trumpeting the same vague, out-of-context and misleading statistics on both pages, much to the anger of a few.

I haven't even gotten to the content yet but I've gone on enough here - decide for yourself if you care to look. I'm not looking for sunshine, I'm looking for another mind. I'm feeling like quite the fool at the time because I see that all my posting and ranting over the past months has been "much ado about nothing" because actually few seem to care about the Paris page - only its authour.

What to do in this sort of situation? in short, it has grown all out of proportion and I would much appreciate any advice.

Thanks, take care,

Josefu 19:54, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

PS: This looks very nice centred : )

Hello, Josefu, and greetings from the depths of the abyss. :) So, I gave your draft a cursory glance, and I think it contains some very useful additions (though I would press on you to more methodically cite your sources for factual claims), though I am not at this point convinced that your version should entirely supplant (as opposed to supplument) the current article. I think the best approach would be for you to: a. proceed one step-at-a-time, and one section at a time, aiming at more incremental goals initially in your edits and discussion. I don't mean that in a linear sense so much as keeping each one of your points grounded. So, for example, if you have a problem with the style, or with the sectional division, with the content in one area, another, etc., deal with each of these on the talk page, one at at a time, clearly & concisely. b. Try to get a wider audience by employing a content dispute RFC, but again, be clear and precise about what is being disputed (if it's a host of issues, then note it as such; if one issue, for ex., the demographic figures, are more prominent, also note that). Paris is a key article and I've seen disputes ones (I consider) infinitely less significant recieve far more attention, for better or worse. c. Related to that, try to better educate yourself on how Misplaced Pages works; its various policies & guidleines. This way, you can better draw comparisons or paralels with other similar articles (perhaps in the process discover important improvements for them). I think that consensus can shift/arise in relation to how well you are able to put these suggestions into practice. I'm not sure how helpful I can be with regards to the material itself (in-depth) as I'm not especially familliar with French history in general or Parisian history, in particular (unless there is something more specific you wish to pose). I hope this proves useful. Let me know if there is anything else I could do to help. Yours, El_C 06:04, 25 November 2005 (UTC) P.S. Thanks! :)

Thank you for your advice. Yes, it does all look a bit "overboard" today but the draft is that, a 'by rote' draft, and it exists mostly to outline subject context and a comprehensive page structure. It is this that I am trying to implement, and it is for this that my work involves changes through the whole article.

Actually the whole point of my writing you is that I'm stuck on a and wanted some additional input before resorting to RFC. I may have to anyhow as the author in question has reverted yet again. The fact that this is a one-on-one duel does not make it easier.

Thank you very much, I will read all the articles you spoke of. Takes cares, yous : )

Josefu 09:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

A quick follow-up: simply because you filed an RFC, does not prevent you from seeking further input at third opinion. Yours, El_C 06:20, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Prague external links

Dear EL C I am the owner of prague-tourism.com domain and from history page I found link to my page was removed several times by you. Can you explain it little bit more? I believe my page is useful resource for the visitors. From past days statistics I know that visitors coming to my page from wikipedia were seeing a lot of pages from tourist information and attractions section, which I hope was helpful for them. I changed the link to my site to link to tourist information section to avoid leading visitors to accommodations search section, but my link was removed once again. There are more links in External Links. I mean especially prague.tv and praguemonitor.com, both offering very quality content, but also leading straight to some commercial content. These links are on wikipedia without problems. I hope you stop removing my link or explain it more please.

Thank you Robert Lejsek

Hello, Robert. The issue is that prague-tourism.com is a commercial link, which is strongly discouraged on Misplaced Pages, and we already have a wikitravel Prague article. Please review Sites that primarily exist to sell products (feel free to persuade me otherwise, though). If you encounter any external links that you feel also do not meet these criterion (including but not limited to the above ones you mention), please remove them from Misplaced Pages. Thank you. El_C 12:24, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Prague-tourism.com exists primarily to sell accommodation but also to be an information resource on Prague.About us. I hope I fulfil at least two requirements why should be my page linked to. I have primary material content and it is my photogallery from some places where it is very complicated to get there. Exapmple libraries of Strahov Monastery. And Tourist Information section of my pages is a kind of web directory. Please look at the pages of Prague Information Service, which is Prague official tourist office. This is one of two or three sites most deserving to be linked to from wikipedia external links guide point of view. But from About us section of their site you may see that they actually do the same things like me. But you can hardly find useful info there. And what is more, their accommodation link leads to a external commercial service. Robert Lejsek

That About us (titled in the bottom of my browser as Prague Hotel Reservation) lists a "Prague Tourism Agency," but the only search querry of that yeilds = Prague-tourism.com, so what is the Prague Tourism Agency? Your photogallery links results at present with the details of this book cannot be displayed at this time. NO pictures cannot be displayed at this time so I was unable to review it. El_C 13:58, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for invalid link. I repared about us title page. The link is:Strahov Monastery. Prague Tourism Agency is simply name of private travel agency. It is not official tourist agency and is not connected with official structures of Czech tourism. Nevertheless we often do the same.

Very nice pics, though rather small compared to what we already have on Commons and elsewhere. Bottom line is that in the context of this article, Misplaced Pages cannot list your site unless it offers something truly extraordinary. There are a lot of travel agencies out there (for Prague) and we can't have them compeeting on that (and other) article(s) for business. Your website is quite decent compared to most of these (I revert many daily), but I'm afraid I am yet convinced of its uniquely informational and exceptional qualities at this point in time. El_C 15:03, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I would strongly oppose the inclusion of the link to prague-tourism.com (and I delete it on-sight). It's clearly just a page of "yet another accomodation reseller". It claims it is operated by "Prague Tourism Agency", which is IMO deceptive. According to whois, the site is operated by "Robert Lejsek (PRAGUE-TOURISM-COM-DOM)" who even does not reside in Prague (sic!). While "Prague Tourism Agency" sounds offcial, it has nothing to do with Prague City, Czech Tourism Agency,... is unkwnown to Czech official "Register of Economic Entities" (!) and even to Google. Part of the content is a relativelly good travel guide, comparable to dozens of others. Thats all. In long term perspective, Misplaced Pages should include much better information on Prague sights than prague - turism does. --Wikimol 01:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikimol, it does not matter where you reside. Lonely Planet resides out of country and it is still nice travel guide. I am natural person, not corpotate body so that you cannot find me in registry. A dont forget, natural person may use its second name, if not used by someone else. But I seriously consider to change it because it really may be confusing. OK, Wikimol and EL C, you convinced me. I hope visitors find my page through some other pages.

Thank you both, Robert and Wikimol, for taking the time. Much appreciated. El_C 08:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Vandal on User page

hello there El C,

I just noticed it as well. The first vandal on my User page!-) thanks alot for cleaning it up. Gryffindor 11:21, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

First one, congrats! Not at all, glad to be of service. :) El_C 11:22, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting my first vandal as well! I'm so proud ... Andjam 11:35, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

You, too?! Wow. I should really be playing the lottery right about now! El_C 11:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Go El C, go El C, go El C...!! :-) Gryffindor

Good times! :D El_C 00:10, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

American terrorism

Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/American_terrorism, the discussion of which you may or may not consider worth reviewing. Don't know if this is a drive-by or not, but from where I sit the same editorial principles seem to be in play. (Offensive/shocking/unflattering term in wide use.) BrandonYusufToropov 18:01, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

What an odd section title, BYT, what were you going for (& is it art)? I changed it to the subject in question. Also, internally linking is very easy (note how I did so above). Anyway, I have to get going now, I'll try to attend to it soon. Regards, El_C 00:44, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Cat/Environmental effects

Hi El C. You reverted my addition to Cat/Environmental effects. You may be interested in joining in a discussion at Cat#Removed_note_about_lack_of_sources. 144.133.211.127 06:12, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll try to attend to it soon, thanks. El_C 00:10, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Your input is requested

Greetings.

I have recently nominated an Israeli-related article for deletion due to its problematic verifiability status. I discuss the problems in-depth on the AfD page, but the short version is: It describes a person who allegedly perpetrated a notable political/criminal event in Israeli history, but I cannot verify that fact via any sources available to me.

I know that you are active in editing Jewish related pages, and generally seem to be knowledgeable of Jewish/Israeli history, so I'm hoping you'll see fit to look at the AfD discussion and possibly help clear up the matter. Or, alternately, that you might know someone who would be able to do so.

The AfD discussion in question is Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Moshe Dwek.

Thanks for your time.
→ Ξxtreme Unction {ł_blah} 14:27, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. It's a well-known event. I provided an authoritative source that proves it isn't a hoax. Note that some of the top editors in .he (including its founder, דוד שי) have contributed to the article (on the Hebrew Misplaced Pages). Regards, El_C 00:10, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your efforts. They are appreciated. However, just to make sure we're on the same page (since I can't read Hebrew), the question was not "did this event happen?" since I was able to find independent corroboration that someone did indeed throw a grenade in the Knesset in 1957. The question is "Was that grenade thrown by someone named Moshe Dwek, who later went on to found a political party?" I just wanted to make sure the Hebrew text you pasted to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Moshe Dwek adressess the latter question rather than the former.

My apologies for being pedantic.

→ Ξxtreme Unction {ł_blah} 12:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Not at all. To clarify, I understood the question, and the answer is: yes. Regards, El_C 14:36, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Esperanza

Hola Jefe! What happened in Esperanza? Any reason? Actually I wanted to ask you about the meaning of מזל טוב (Mazal tov). Cheers -- Svest 00:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC)  

Hola compadre! I hope you're well. That I find Esperanza too reactive and not proactive enough is just part of it. I mostly joined to begin with because of Essjay, who I am very fond of (& incidentally, I removed his name from the list as per his request to me and not to make any waves, and he did not ask me to remove myself, on the contrrary, he advised me not to act out of anger — at the event, I was going to remove myself regardless). Anyway, now that he's gone, I don't see a point in participating. Finally, in answer to your question, mazal tov means "congratulations" or "well done," but more literally, it means "good luck." All the best, El_C 00:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for mazal tov. Actually, I thought that Esperanza is a nice idea. I still think so but less than I used to, maybe due to the lack of activity there. After all, we know where you are! ;) -- Cheers -- Svest 00:55, 4 December 2005 (UTC)  

For sure. :) As for ESP, I'm not calling for its dissolution, it's a personal choice. And, yes, you know where to find me. At your service, El_C 01:03, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Economic fascism

There is an ongoing attempt to define state intervention in the economy as inherently fascist through the creation of an article entitled economic fascism. I have started an AfD on that article based on the argument that "economic fascism" is (a) too vague to ever be properly defined and (b) an inherently POV term of abuse which will cause eternal edit wars, and the observation that the subject of economic policy in fascist regimes is already covered in a multitude of other articles, including fascism itself and corporatism. Please consider voting or commenting on the AfD. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 23:04, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I have some familiarity with the author, and looking at this, I definitely continue to express strong WP:NOR and WP:NPOV concerns. El_C 12:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Alexander for Admin

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_adminship/Alexander_007. I've nominated User:Alexander_007 as admin. Let's vote for him! -- Bonaparte talk & contribs 14:12, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh. Wer'e doing what now? El_C 12:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Four dead in Ohio

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming, Four dead in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it Soldiers are cutting us down Should have been done long ago. What if you knew her And found her dead on the ground How can you run when you know?

Gotta get down to it Soldiers are cutting us down Should have been done long ago. What if you knew her And found her dead on the ground How can you run when you know?

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming, Four dead in Ohio.

WAS 4.250 02:25, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

It's incredibly sick, you can feel it as across the land it flows.
Prejudice is slick, when it's a word game it festers and grows.
Move along quick, it furthers one to have somewhere to go.
You can feel it as it's rumbling, let emotions keep a-tumbling,
then, as cities start to crumbling, mostly empty bellies grumbling here we go.
El_C 06:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Republic of macedonia

i understand your point. i changed the text in the beginning. but he second version is different. observe the differences. i think the second version is acceptable for both sides. Nestore

Okay, I will have a look. Thanks for the notice, Nestore. El_C 06:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Image help

Hi El C, I'd like to use this image from the Hebrew wiki, but lacking any skill in Hebrew I can't decipher the copyright tag. I was hoping you'd be able to help, the image is here. Thanks.--nixie 13:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The tag reads: This image was photographed/prepared by אסתר. This image can be fairuse(d) for educational purposes, while extending appropriate credit and linked when used outside of Misplaced Pages. These images can be used for any purpose (including a commercial purpose) so long as the usage is provided free of charge to the public at large. HTH. Regards, El_C 13:34, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. It doesn't sound like a "free licence", but the user does have some more recent images that are free with attribution. Could I ask you to ask Ester to clarify if the same licence applies to this image, I'd really appreciate it.--nixie 13:47, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Sure; but I'm afraid I'm not entirely following the question. You can use it on .en, since the tag allows for not only educational but even commercial use. Just link it to Echidna.jpg. That said, I don't mind asking her anything on your behalf (I just need to know what I'm asking: feel free to draft it and I'll just translate it as such). I should also probably note that she only joined Misplaced Pages a week or so ago. Regards, El_C 14:43, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I completely misread the text, the wording is not very straight foward, I guess I was expecting it to be more restricted. Thanks again.--nixie 21:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, its worded counterintuitively, with singular followed by plural, with educational followed by commercial, etc. Glad to be of service. El_C 23:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

pls unblock me

i have more than 3000 edits, see "user contributions" - i was blocked for no reason. User:Haham hanuka

No reason, at all? But you did re-add the prohibited list, no? El_C 14:55, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Gregory Lauder-Frost

I have explained my position on the article talk page. As I have said there, I do not believe that I have taken any action which violates Misplaced Pages policy. The present situation with GLF is part of a larger issue, involving the attempts of some posters to write hagiographical articles on figures associated with Britain's far right. (See Harvey Ward for another example). I'd appreciate it if you would look into this dispute in further detail, and let me know of your opinion. CJCurrie 23:14, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Certainly, I made no such claims of policy violation on your part. I assure you that I take your (hagiographical, on the part of the new editors) comment into account and that I will try to attend to reviewing the matter in greater detail soon. The protection was issued because I felt the parties in the dispute needed a time out. Feel free, though, to issue a request for unprotection if you feel my move was in error. El_C 23:30, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Certainly, I made no such claims of policy violation on your part. I wasn't accusing you of this; I just wanted to make my position known. Sorry if my comments caused any offense. By the way, I should clarify that I'm an administrator as well. I don't think that the protection was in error -- I just think that the wrong version of the article was protected. (I'm half-tempted to change it myself, though I suppose that my involvement in the debate rules out this option.) CJCurrie 23:35, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

First, let me say sorry for modifying with the format of your reply here. No, no offence was taken at all, I know you weren't accusing me of stating that, please take my comment as simply a clarification for the record. Yes, I did know that you are also an administrator, and yes, your involvement does indeed rule out the option. Finally, I realize that the wrong version was protected. That was purposful on my part. :) El_C 23:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm ... I hadn't seen that page before. Cute. CJCurrie 23:50, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Heh, that's meta for you! And you did, in fact, say wrong version. I'm glad you see the humor. :) El_C 23:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Slim asked me to show you this

Chaosfeary's most recent redirect struck us both as worthy of admin action. (This came in response to Irishpunktom's facetious remark that a link to Islamofascism on Islam would be appropriate when there was a link to the Nazi party on Christianity.

Do you think some kind of next step is in order here? Slim is engaged in a content dispute with him on another page, and asked me to show it to you. BYT 17:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Update: Jayjg handled this. BYT 17:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Since there's nothing for me to do, I'll go on, as do always, about how linking externally = one square bracket and internally, two! El_C 10:24, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Explanation

Here is the explaination. A couple of people requested unprotection (including the major author of the article) and the major author of the article wants to put it up for afd. --Woohookitty 11:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

If you disagree, you can reprotect it. I won't argue. --Woohookitty 11:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I appeared to have inexplicably missed that, somehow. I don't intend on reprotecting at this time as per the AfD motions. Thanks. Regards, El_C 11:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Fort Worth

Hi, twice you have reverted edits to the Fort Worth page by myself. Why? --147.124.49.89 01:15, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello. I reverted you because you did not provide a reference to go along with your addition, so I treated it as unverifiable. But mostly, I just thought it was childish vandalism, because the claim it's known as funkytown appeared far-fetched. El_C 02:18, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Would you like the reference in the article, or should I put it in the summary? --147.124.49.89 03:45, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Please use the summary, for now. Thanks. El_C 03:47, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

As a resident of Fort Worth, I can confirm that this is the first time I have EVER heard the terms "Funkytown" and "Fort Worth" used in the same sentence. Kade 19:13, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I just looked at the source now — good call. Regards, El_C 10:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Costa Rica

Its alright. I am glad you told me so though. I dont feel too strongly about the subject my self its just some people on this website are really subjective and its really annoying glad to see you arent. Yeah i do got to learn how to use this thing thanks for reconizing that and not automatically thinking i was vandal because thats what everyone ive talked to so far said about me. LOL i wasnt even sure how to send you a message but i guess i figured it out. Where do I learn the ropes of this thing. 24.60.161.63

Sounds good, thanks. I think Misplaced Pages:Introduction is a good starting point. I noticed you placed a new comment on the talk page. I'll try to respond soon, but I'll give you a chance to get the hang of things and reorganize it yourself (unless you want me to do it, which is no problem). Note, though, that some of my earllier responses there are directed at SaulPerdomo, not yourself. For a well-ordered talk page, we're aiming at comments placed bellow one another, signed, and indented. The intro page should cover that. Thanks again. Regards, El_C 05:11, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Your help requested

Hi, El C.

I was told that you are a speaker of Hebrew. If this is true, I need something translated for me. What does everything here say? This user has a history of using Hebrew to googlespam, and I need to make sure what he's doing is legit. He's already been warned.

Thanks for whatever help you can provide. Alex Schenck (that's Linuxbeak to you) 20:28, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Those are the biographical entries, previously from the Hebrew Misplaced Pages, of four pornography starlets, in order: Jenna Jameson, Sylvia Saint, Jill Kelly, and Aurora Snow. If I recall correctly, these biographies were deleted from the Hebrew Misplaced Pages, not because there is anything wrong with them as biographical entries, but rather because the Hebrew Misplaced Pages is more puritanical and/or exclusive in its entries and does not include pornography. In short, there's no harm in it, and it's unlike his hitherto ranking list, so I would'nt worry about it. Regards, El_C 22:50, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Unblocking

Thanks! --Khoikhoi 04:11, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure. El_C 04:41, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Hello, El C. Thank you for undoing the vandalism by Generalqueef on my userpage yesterday. Now I can peacefully go on my wikivacation. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Take care. -- PFHLai 15:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Fer sure. Enjoy your wiki (& hopefuly also otherwise) vacation. Happy holidays! Best, El_C 22:32, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey

Hey, El C! 'bout time I said hello. I like to nail them as fast as I can move my mouse. Keep up the good work!  :-) Antandrus (talk) 03:05, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey-hey! Thanks, likewise! You take point — I got your back. :) El_C 03:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Reverted my reversion to Falklands War.

Before I re-revert - could you explain why you reverted my edit.  ? The comment was clearly vandalism, inserted by an anon ip - right ? Puzzled, but seeking enlightenment. Megapixie 03:44, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Nope, the vandalism was removed by the anon. I didn't explain since I assumed you'd realize this on the spot. Hope that clears things up. El_C 03:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Uggh. My Bad. Humblest apologies. Megapixie 03:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Not at all; happens to me, too. Regards, El_C 03:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

vandalism patrol

Hi, when reverting vandalism, please make sure the version being reverted to wasn't also a product of vandalism e.g. as happened in Essenes. Thanks linas 04:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi. We're doing what now? Regards, El_C 02:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

80.217.152.161

Thanks for your efforts in dealing with User:80.217.152.161. Personally I would have rather seen a block that was longer than the last one (which was 48 hours). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

No problem. Block time will increase exponentially. Regards, El_C 02:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

thanks for muting Svetlyo

he was a pain in the @ss. Arnegjor

You're welcome. Apperently the concept of manners are foreign to that editor. I mean, no comment! El_C 02:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Mythology

What the heck are you doing adding back wikispam about STAR WARS FICTION article vote on the MYTHOLOGY talk page without giving any sort of rationale or explanation? It's bad enough the editor who put it there has no clue whatesoever on the definition of mythology nor any understanding of the concept that people on a mythology talk page couldn't care less about whatever nonsense he wants to try to push through on his Darth Vader thing, but for you to come along and restore it is just ridiculous. If some editor on the mythology article thinks it is relevant, he or she can restore it, but they never have, it's just been the Star Wars nut making personal attacks and trying to change the defintion of words (words which are clearly explained on the article in question if he'd bother to read it) and now you. Please use some common sense and think about the applicable Misplaced Pages policies before blindly reverting. DreamGuy 17:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I thought I provided a rational, but I guess that was in my mind. So here it is. Essentially, I tend to agree with your point, but at the same time, I urge to be more pragmatic in this case, just so needless energy would'nt be expended on such a conflict. The notice is, what, three sentences? He said he will remove it on Dec. 31st. I suggest just letting it be rather than entering into a revert war on the talk page. Regards, El_C 02:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Radhanite

I put this article up for featured status. Your input would be most welcome. --Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 22:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Will have a look at it soon. Regards, El_C 02:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

EffK is forced to Abandon a Corrupted Misplaced Pages

I refer you to my response of a few moments ago at ' 15 December, 3 December. EffK 02:46, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid I haven't followed that case at all. Time permitting, I'll try to glance at it soon. Regards, El_C 02:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Rogueness

Rogueness you requested, and rogueness you have. ; - ) -- Essjay · Talk 04:10, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Yay! :D El_C 04:11, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Um. :)

You're right, the Fractions article does need to be a lot more professional (and make a lot more sense, and use consistent math typesetting styles, and...) I'm slowly working on fixing/replacing a lot of the original content, but I'm about to go on my honeymoon, so I might not finish it until I get back. --Jay (Histrion) (talk • contribs) 05:15, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

There are more important things than math. Congrats on getting married! enjoy your honeymoon. :) El_C 05:22, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Jesus, a historical reconstruction

I noticed you removed a link I posted on the Jesus page; it is called "Jesus, a historical reconstruction". First let me tell you I spent seven years developping this website.

Hi. Moved most of the comment and responded here. Thanks. Best, El_C 11:03, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Admin Abuse

If you are truly a constructive participant of Misplaced Pages you would correct my request for review rather than delete it. The user "Viriditas" has been abusive in the discussion page for the article "Quarters." I urge you to take a look. Haizum 12:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

It isn't possible for me to correct it in any way, you need to author it first. El_C 12:59, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Please stop edit-warring

Please stop edit-warring. If you have concerns about my edits, please discuss them on Misplaced Pages talk:Verifiability/Religioustolerance.org. Just reverting ends up wasting time, disrupts the encyclopaedia, and resolves nothing. Discussion is far more likely to be fruitful, jguk 13:14, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I did not edit war, nor did I revert any of your changes. Regards, El_C 13:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I am discouraged to learn you have copy & pasted the same comment elsewhere. El_C 13:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Meowtside view

It seems like some people need to acquire a sense of humour. You're right - yours was better. Guettarda 03:48, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, thank you very much! :D /bows El_C 03:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Forest Dhamma Books

Hi... Did you go through and remove all the links to ForestDrammaBooks? It looks like we were both removing at the same time. I think that we got them all. Thanks. --AStanhope 05:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey. I think from all the key articles, at least. Some more obscure ones may have slipped through (since a few ips were used). Best, El_C 06:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

User:24.6.226.196

Hi. 24.6.226.196 (talk · contribs) (the guy who keeps adding the ilovesyria.com links to pages) left a comment on my talk page:

You are wrong to remove the I Love Syria (www.ilovesyria.org) website from the Shia page. First of all, it is not commercial; it is in fact an educational website. Second, it is a Shia website that explains the importance of Syria to the Shia. This very important to be shared with others because of the current discordances about Syria. So, please read the content of the website, including the purely Shia narrations included in it and put back the link to where it truly belongs. If you have a problem with Syria, please be kind enough as not impose it on others.

Please help me explain to him on his talk page why he needs to stop. Thanks. --Khoikhoi 06:51, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Sure, on my way. Regards, El_C 06:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Proposed Decision

Just to make everyone aware, arbitrators have begun to write the proposed decision in the arbitration case. You can view the decision here:.

So far no punative measures have been offered to solve the problems regarding the behavior of those involved. I strongly urge people to post comments asking for a stronger proposed decision from the Arbitration Committee. Otherwise, this will be all for nothing. We need to lobby them to get a ban on users as well as having them banned from editing certain articles for a period of time. There needs to be a clear message to those involved to stop reverting the article. Your comments can be left here: .

I know this is a busy season for everyone, but this will only take a few minutes. We need to deal with this now. If not, this problem will continue to disrupt Misplaced Pages. Davidpdx 00:29, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, the proverbial I'll try to attend to it soon (really). El_C 05:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Auntie Archive

May be none of my business, but why? Guettarda 04:52, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Why, more opportunity for mischief, of course! El_C 05:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Image:Machel-Neto.jpg

Nv8200p 17:26, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. I provided sources and an explanation. Please review these. Thanks again. El_C 01:43, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

lol!

Too funny :-) Ta bu shi da yu 02:59, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

'Tis funny because it's true! :D El_C 03:01, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

WP:NPA

Did you warn Wekeenah about NPA also? That wasn't quite an NPA but really an expression that if you tell people "f*** you" if you are offended, you aren't much better than the vandals who put that stuff there. Either way it's not civil. If you want to call it NPA, that's kinda missing the point. -- Jbamb 05:15, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. I essentially saw it as a comparison with pro-Nazi, racist vandals, which is out of line. El_C 05:18, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Well I'm sorry you took it that way. Jbamb 05:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Jesus, a historical reconstruction, pt.2

Hello, I cannot believe my website "Jesus, a historical reconstruction" is turned down. It is certainly more researched, more objective than most of the links of the Jesus page. I have two opponents (see talk:Jesus for details), one saying somebody else other than me should implement the post (that's OK, that can be done, but the rule is rather naive). The other, who is truly anonymous, does not want to have a "link farm" and always takes me out, whenever he/she has the chance. But recently two new posts appeared and no deletion. I feel unjustifiably picked on and my opinion of wikipedia is very low at this time. What do you recommend? Thanks, Bernard

Hi. I havne't followed developments closely. So what exactly happned in the end, specifically? Best, El_C 06:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant in terms of a talk page comment, but I see you've placed several notices (I overlooked it above). I think the problem, as I mentioned prior, is that a geocities url will almost invariably be viewed as unprofessional/nonauthoritative by some. All I could recommend is that you attempt to further build on consensus and get more people to support it as a reliable source. Hope this helps. El_C 06:43, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Chile vandalism by 200.106.34.229

Can you please block IP 200.106.34.229 and also review the additional vandals listed at WP:AIV? Can't sleep, clown will eat me 08:13, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks like I'm a few days late! El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Sockpuppet block

Regarding my sockpuppet ban of Fones, I've lifted it and apologized to the user. It seems that I misjudged; thanks for bringing that to my attention. // Pathoschild 08:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good; my pleasure. El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Image:Machel-Neto.jpg

Source is good enough. Really need some fair use justification for using the images in the article Neocolonialism -Thanks Nv8200p talk 16:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

'Twas a quite a while ago that the image was added, thus, the tagging issue. Thanks again for your help. Regards, El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

RFC formatting

EL C can you guide us with what is wrong with the formatting of this RFC Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Dbachmann (2). Please post your remarks on Talk:Rajput. --DPSingh 15:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Please refer to Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Example_user. El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Fisheaters

The links are being reinserted, but on a more selective basis. I am reverting them and putting messages on the Talk pages. I don't discount the possibility of relevance, but there is nothing to persuade me that this site is an authority. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 13:08, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye, thanks. El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

MEOW

You remind me of the Ancient Egyptians (Khemetians is what they should be called in my opinion) that worshipped cats. I am a history major, and I am pretty much in love with history so we have a lot in common! Don't put me to death for killing a cat like they did! : ). MEOW!

On the other hand, I've read that Eisenhower used to have cats killed whenever he saw them on the White House lawn, Napoleon and Alexander the Great had a cat phobia too, personally I don't like cats : (. I don't like any pets unless I can put them in a cage (rabbit) or better yet, some type of bowl (fish). Hope I can hear from you later, have a Happy Holiday!

P.S. MMMMEEEEEOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!!! εγκυκλοπαίδεια* 20:38, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Your anti-feline intransigence knows no bounds! Never have I hear such insolence! Happy holiday! :) El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

why remove the npov tag

Dear El C, It seems strange that you would remove the NPOV tag. I thought perhaps you were more reasonable than Gene_Poole.

Why do you let a mis-quote by Gene of the WP article stand, i.e. "An article in the Washington Post reported that DoM was 'diplomatically recognized' by the Central African Republic, in 1993, but opined that that nation would probably "recognize the State of Denial if it had a letterhead"?

When in fact the WP gave no such opinion, but only commented that "you get the feeling" that such and such would happen, not that it "probably" would happen. Sincerely, Johnski 23:48, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Johnski. Feel free to place the tag again for the duration of the Arbitration case. As for the passage you mentioned, I did not notice it in fact, so, for better or worse, it wasn't a consideration in my decision to lift the tag. Thanks. El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Happy Hanukkah El C! and thank you for writing back, unfortunately or fortunatley depending on how you see it, no one will let me touch the article. Perhaps you could try to fix the mis-characterization of the WP quote. I'd also like to ask if you could balance the two quotes regarding the former employee of the US OCC with their actual web site, and the qutoe from the US SEC with their subsequent quote regarding the settlement of that SEC case. If you are not familiar with these I'd be happy to show them to you. Sincerely, Johnski 07:44, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, Johnski, happy holidays to you, too. I'm afraid that I haven't followed the article since August, so little of the innerworking behind that are clear to me. Feel free to fill me in on the article's talk page, but please be as concise and to the point as possible. Regards, El_C 04:37, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Final decision

The arbitration committee has reached a final decision in the Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate change dispute 2 case. Raul654 18:09, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice — excelent decision. El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

ERP

Since you have recently posted at Enterprise resource planning, including some reversals, I thought you might like to see that I have added some stuff both there and to its Talk pages. This is just a courtesy notification that I have updated the article since your last activity there. I also had a concern about the Disadvantages section, the style as opposed to content, and posted a question about that in the December 23 section of the Help Desk whose first response cautioned aboutWP:NPOV. I believe that I have altered the tone of the article to correct what I thought was an unfortunate WP:POV, or historical bias, but there is also an issue with respect to adequately presenting information about commercial software, open source, and homebrew. Many facts about ERP are true in one of these three main areas, but totally wrong for the others. User:AlMac| 21:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try to attend to it soon. El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah

I would like to wish you and your family all the best for the season and in the year ahead. Guettarda 15:36, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. Happy holidays and a great new year to you and your family. All the best, El_C 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Requested move

Hi again. Would you please be able to move Zazi (Dzadzi) to Zazi for me? I don't really feel like running it through WP:RM. Thanks. Oh, and Happy Chanukah! --Khoikhoi 04:10, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. Thanks, happy holidays to you, too! El_C 04:13, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! --Khoikhoi 04:13, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!

I really appreciate your having caught that guy who tweaked my user page. What was up with that, I wonder? Anyway, have a very merry Christmas and thanks again!! - Lucky 6.9 20:04, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

No idea; apperently you're Tonto! Merry Christmas! :) El_C 04:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!!

Happy holidays from me too, El C. I hope the new year's a great one for you. ;-) SlimVirgin 02:04, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Slim (and Santa!), happy holidays and best wishes for bestest year from moi! El_C 04:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Same from me too El C. --a.n.o.n.y.m 05:54, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks; likewise! :) El_C 05:56, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

My apologies

El C, I received your note. I was editing my talk page, just hadn't signed in. My apologies. Would you please be so kind as to inform Tommstein to not revert my page as he's done twice already with comments which admin Kelly Murphy stated he needed to desist from in her comment on my talk page. Thank you very much. :) Retcon 06:06, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

No problem. I think s/he gets it, but I'll keep an eye. Regards, El_C 08:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

El C, you are correct. The individual had written a message on top of my own on two different talk pages rather than creating a separate item, but I will leave as is per your instructions. Retcon 23:59, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, please don't do it again. Regards, El_C 00:01, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Hebrew Alphabet

Saw this message, what do you think of it? IZAK 06:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC):"I have rewritten the articles on all the Hebrew letters here and before I replace the pages, your input would be appreciated. Thanks! Sputnikcccp 16:26, 23 December 2005 (UTC)"

I'm not sure, since I haven't read the individual articles to compare. But I did just move ד to Dalet (from Daleth). I am of the opinion that phonetic accuracy (wrt to present usage) superceeds other considerations. What are your thoughts? El_C 08:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Lord Salisbury

Greetings. My memory fails me: was the (at the time) Lord Salisbury a member of the Monday Club? Thanks in advance. Regards, El_C 11:21, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

reply :

"Off the top of my head", I do not know. But the Lord Salisbury of that era was a very right wing guy, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was a member of the Monday Club. The following extract from the Guardian in 2001 may be of interest :

Iain Duncan Smith yesterday launched a purge of rightwing extremists when he suspended the Monday Club from the Conservative party. During a "frank" meeting, the Tory chairman, David Davis, told the club's board that he was severing its links with the party until it stopped promoting inflammatory views on race, such as the voluntary repatriation of ethnic minorities.

The article on Ian Smith refers to Monday Club support for Rhodesia as if this were evidence of something positive. Bob

Hello again, Bob, and thank you for the prompt reply. Please review my response submitted on your talk page. Thanks again. Regards, El_C 11:47, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Extract from Misplaced Pages :

Robert Arthur James Gascoyne-Cecil, 5th Marquess of Salisbury, KG (August 27, 1893–February 23, 1972) was a grandson of the great 3rd Marquess. Nicknamed "Bobbety", the 5th Marquess was elected to the House of Commons in 1929, and then called up to the House of Lords by a writ in acceleration in 1941, before he succeeded his father as Marquess of Salisbury in 1947.

Lord Salisbury was a prominent Tory politician in the 1940s and 1950s, serving in the governments of Winston Churchill, Anthony Eden, and Harold Macmillan. He was known as a hardline imperialist, and was a staunch defender of the European-dominated governments in South Africa and in Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) during the 1960s, and a fierce opponent of liberal-left attempts to reform the House of Lords, yet he created what is known as the Salisbury Convention. He became in 1961 the 1st President of the Conservative Monday Club, a post he held until his decease.

Right, he was pretty much their (European Rhodesians) driving-force in the Lords (except perhaps after Huggins resigned as PM of the CAF and for its duration only), and Pres. of the Club; it's all somewhat coming back to me now. El_C 13:27, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Free drugs

Very funny. Merry Christmas to you -- Gurch 12:52, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, sad. :( Santa was here, btw, see above. Regretfuly, there were no free drugs (unless...!). Happy holidays to you, too! El_C 12:57, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Kurdistan

Hey man, how come you restored the external links? Could you comment on the talk page? Thanks :) - FrancisTyers 13:43, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey, sorry 'bout that, I overlooked the notice. I reverted myself in that section. Regards, El_C 13:49, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks El C

Thanks for the protect El C. That user seems to have appeared just to revert and make attacks. A likely sockpuppet no doubt and a lot of people seem to be having a problem with him/her. Thanks --a.n.o.n.y.m 14:25, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Now, now. Let's assume good faith and all that jazz. I'd actually like participants on both sides to tone down the personal remarks. Regards, El_C 14:29, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah Gren said the same thing and of course I agree :). Guess I was just angry because CltFn has done this type of thing with using anon IPs to revert so many times before. I got dragged into this somehow, but uptill a day ago I didn't even remember it existed. :P Also please check this out where a similar editor has returned and I tried to compromise but the editor wants it his way despite being reverted by other editors too . Thanks --a.n.o.n.y.m 14:34, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Similar? Anger leads to the Dark Side. Back to Jerusalem... Somehow, that source strikes me as falling short of authoritative. El_C 14:45, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Exactly, not only a problem of the anger, but the sources too are a problem. So please keep an eye on it and Happy Holidays to you El C. --a.n.o.n.y.m 14:51, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Sure, I added it to my watchlist. Thanks again! :) El_C 14:56, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Is this worthy of a block ? This guy is really starting to sound a lot like Enviroknot..Yuber 17:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Guy (?), but the name implies... Anyway, I'm not prepared to issue blocks at this time. El_C 22:42, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

No ownership of pages

Including talk pages. I think the comment you made on Zordrac's talk was rhetorical/sarcastic, but this point is pretty darn clear as policy: Misplaced Pages:How to archive a talk page, Misplaced Pages:Avoiding common mistakes. You could argue that WP:NPA overrides this, which is borderline. But most certainly nothing I ever wrote on Zordrac's page even remotely approached personal attack. His deletions consisted solely of "polite disagreements." In any case, I always err on the side of preserving comments (perhaps in an archive though), because the appearance (or actual intention) of falsifying discussion history is a very bad no-no. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 18:39, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

No, actually, not including user talk pages. My question was not rhetorical nor was it sarcastic, and I have no need to bring WP:NPA into this. I thought that, perhaps, unbeknownst to me, policy has changed, but that does not seem to be the case. Thus, you appear to be confused, as WP:OWN does not apply to (one's own) user talk page(s), and a style guide isn't binding policy. Whenever you revert a registered user's deletion of comments in their talk page, against their wishes, that counts as disruption. You may, however, copy (and/or archive) those comments to your own talk page. Please be more careful with citing policy. Thanks. El_C 22:42, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Well... OK, if you say so. I've never heard anyone claim WP:OWN didn't apply to user (talk) space before. Quite a few admins have mentioned to me (or in general conversations) that it does apply. And I'll certainly continue to behave as if it does (because it should). Acting as if there was ownership of user pages is certainly one of the most common mistakes on WP. FWIW, however, on the narrow Zordrac issue, I never once reverted his deletions, as improper and annoying as they were. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 01:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, I say so. Those admins are incorrect; feel free to send em my way, if you're able to recall who said what. In the meantime, please refrain from statements such as "absolutely and categorically in violation of WP policy." While blanking (selectively & otherwise) comments from one's own talk page is bad form, it is not a policy violation — stating that it is so is a mirepresentation. El_C 04:36, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Off the top of my head, I think SlimVirgin, Neutrality and Mel_Etitis were a few admins who have mentioned this specific non-ownership issue. But it's certainly been many others since I joined Misplaced Pages. In any case, Misplaced Pages:Avoiding common mistakes is pretty direct on this (admittedly, that is indeed a guideline rather than a policy); but then WP:OWN, while not firmly putting its foot down on this, is much closer to saying that user pages are non-owned than to saying the contrary. I confess, however, I engaged in a bit of an excessive rhetorical flourish with "absolutely and categorically"... I suppose the overwhelming volume of tirades and insults from Zordrac annoyed me enough to overstate the matter slightly. Still, it's definitely "very bad manners" to delete as he did. You can find some of the deletions mentioned at User talk:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters/sandbox2: none of the removed comments are within a stone's throw of disruption or personal attack. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 04:51, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

The edit being removed need not be disruptive in order for the removal to be within policy (though indeed, outside other pertinent guide/s). Again, policy violation does not necessarily follow from bad form, and we do allow a personal space, within policy. Thus, in their user/talk page, the editor can become the censor, for better or worse. And again, if that's an issue for someone, they can edit their own talk page and note the diffs, etc. That said, if you have doubts, feel free to bring this conversation before the Arbitration Committee in a request for clarification, I'm very confident they would cocur with my explanation. If you wish to amend or develop new policy to respond to this issue, that would also be your progrative. IMUHO, sometimes people just want to be left alone for a while, and within reason, I do view their user/talk page as their sanctuary, whether I disapprove of their actions, in that sense, or not. El_C 05:13, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

1948 Arab-Israeli War

You unprotected the 1948 Arab-Israeli War article, with comment "I hope the protection period proved productive". I am sorry to crush your hope, but the matter is currently under arbitration. Unprotecting the article would be unwise at this time.-- Heptor _talk 03:01, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

PS: Did you make the fractals yourself? Cool. -- Heptor _talk 03:02, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi. No, they're from Commons. My hopes are not crushed, nor was the page unprotected yet, I am still waiting to review any objections. Regards, El_C 03:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the page should stay protected for now, at least until we see how things are going in the arb case. Btw, your input on that page would be most appreciated. --Zero 07:53, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, okay, if you think that's best. Sure, I'll try to figure out what's what soon. Bring on the paranormal investigators! Regards, El_C 07:59, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Ehm, the reason for this request is mostly that I stayed up a little too late yesterday. If this it bad, you should have seen what I wrote on the ARMA model (fixed it now, of course). -- Heptor _talk 12:56, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Heh, no, you're good; but I think you got the wrong idea what was meant by "paranormal investigator", which luckily will have no bearing on the accuracy or lack thereof in the investigation of the paranormal. El_C 13:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

OMFG, PPPLEASE DON'T!!!! -- Heptor _talk 18:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly! I mean, what? Regards, El_C 01:10, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Islam in the United States

Hi El C. There have been responses to unprotection here. Thanks --a.n.o.n.y.m 17:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. Regards, El_C 01:10, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Wishes

Hello, I wish you and your family a prosperous and happy New Year 2006! We shall surely remain actively involved in the Project Misplaced Pages. --Bhadani 17:13, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Many thanks, Bhadani. Best wishes to you & yours for a joyful as well as productive 2006! Yours, El_C 00:51, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Hebrew wiki

Try the 1929 massacre "טבח חברון" The role of the mufti there is well shown and if you copy thisd into 1929 you will be reverted. So to argue that that Hebrew wiki is "the authorative source" can not be accepted. Zeq 06:38, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I made no such argument, 'tis a featured article, though. Copy what? I'm not following that at all. El_C 07:13, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

If you're interested

Been working hard on the Shoshone National Forest article as I promised...have a look...have recently expanded the section discussing glaciers and global warming...I'm almost done covering most I can and I'm probably going to send it off to peer review in a week or so...if you see anything that needs changing, well, don't hesitate!--MONGO 12:54, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Looking good! Real good! Well done. Will have a closer look soon. Cordially & sincerely yours, El_C 13:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

k, sorry

I just saw the comment by Pgk that it messes up the main page, didn't realise that - You didn't say *why* you were changing, which would've helped :) --Mistress Selina Kyle 14:10, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

No problem. I see. Still, when in doubt, please ask (i.e. assume a rational impetus). Thanks again. El_C 14:20, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Costa Rica

Squeakbox says the Costa Rica statement violates the NPOV i dont think it does because its just a statement people have made to about Costa Rica. XGustaX Could you please help me out buddy? XGustaX

Has the matter been resolved now? Looks like you both violated 3RR. As mentioned earlier, the passage was translated from a print encyclopedia, and I also provided further authoritative sources at that time (on the talk page). El_C 23:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

For last year's words belong to last year's language

And next year's words await another voice.

And to make an end is to make a beginning.

T.S. Eliot, "Little Gidding"

Happy New Year! ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 20:24, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Happy New Year! El_C 23:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC) — Now! El_C 00:00, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Er...

Tried what? To delete that userbox? -- Миборовский 04:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Tried to indent my signature without all the blank space. El_C 04:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Wording

I apologize for my use of the term "illegal". What I meant was "out of process" (i.e. not following WP:TFD). In hindsight, I agree that the original term was too inflammatory. Firebug 15:34, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Thanks. El_C 15:53, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Userpage

What's the latest change to your userpage supposed to mean? -- Essjay · Talk 15:39, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Good question! Sadly, I no longer recall much, except that looking at Mia suddenly made me very, very sleepy. Almost as if she was singing to me: ♪Trust in me, just in me, close your eyes and trust in me.♪ Hypnotic! /slips into silent slumber, sails on a silver mist. El_C 15:53, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Faux-wikiStalinist userbox

Your Che picture and quote give me indigestion inspires me to adopt the revolutionary path, but that userbox goes on the list of funniest wikimoments of all time, and it's now on my userpage and User:Phroziac's userpage, thanks! Babajobu 17:16, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

For sure! I also applied some friendly censorship to your outrageous counter-revolutionary subversion! El_C 17:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Reproduced

Counter-counter response

Users who disendorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

1. Your lameness knows no bounds. Kitty 12:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

   I echo that. Stop following me already! El_C 12:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

   Not to mention you stole that template. Kitty 12:29, 1 January 2066 (UTC)

   I have no idea what you're talking about. El_C 12:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

   Riiight. It wasn't funny the third time, it's not gonna be funny the sixth time. Idiot. Kitty 12:30, 1 January 2666 (UTC)

   Actually, I laughed. It was funny! - Ta bu shi da yu 14:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

   I laughed, too. It's actually very funny. I particularly like the "and would do it again." LOL Sarah Ewart 14:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

   LOLZ-until-heart-attack, that is so funny, OMG thank you El_C, I'm putting it on my userpage!! Babajobu 16:44, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

   You reproduced it? Why do you even bother? Nobody cares. Kitty 12:45, 1 January 2060 (UTC)

   Can you just shut up already. El_C 18:27, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

The Counter Strike

Template:User survived   - By User:Miborovsky --81.77.195.114 15:41, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

  Users who think this is all playground madness (sign with ~~~~):

1. See, now everyone can see you stole it from Hmib. Idiot. Kitty 16:00, 1 January 2606 (UTC)

   What, I didn't say anything! El_C 16:01, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

   This is just pathetic at this point. Ugen was right to mock you. And you actually approached him on his talk page! I can't believe what an idiot you are. Kitty 12:45, 1 January 2660 (UTC)

Qur'an Image Removal

The image is not suitable to Quran holiness Zanoon 17:21, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I, for one, do not consider any book to be holy, but that aside, why do you find it unsuitable? El_C 17:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Hi El C. Happy New Year! Just wanted to point out that banned user:enviroknot is currently editing the Islamist Terrorism article using anon IP 66.69.139.191. Definitely enviroknot; check contribs where he tried to remove the sock tag from an old enviroknot sockpuppet. Thanks. --a.n.o.n.y.m 18:35, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Happy new year, AE! I'll try to have a look at it soon, but now is not a good time, I'm afraid. El_C 18:37, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

A familiar problem

I think you've probably had some experiences with User:CJK (I imagine none good). He has, unfortunately, found the page List of dictators that I am one of three or four "maintainers" on. As a start, he started out adding various USA boosterism to talk pages (or more specifically, anti-Communist ranting). That wasn't so bad, being talk pages and all. But unfortunately, it seems to be leading where I thought it would lead: mostly, so far, to moderately bad changes to the Castro entry (chiefly, so far, in removal of citations on the grounds they are not "sufficiently anti-Castro"). But I fear it portend even more obnoxious changes, probably spreading to other items.

I think he'll probably violate 3RR soon (takes one more edit). So maybe that will keep him away on a short-term block. From what I can see of his edit history, such would be very transient relief though. Any advice by chance? These ideological warriors are just so damned frustrating to deal with while editing any pages with vaguely political content. The dictators one, maybe not surprisingly, gets more anti-Castro fanatics than all other destructive edits combined. Moreover, it's not even a dispute about listing Castro, it's just that they seem to feel that the annotation isn't sufficiently long and vitriolic for their tastes (but what they add is never germane to the list inclusion criteria, which is what we annotate). Blech! Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 18:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Bletch! indeed. When an encyclopedia project reports the lie about "free elections" in Cuba, I feel the need to resist. How evil of me. CJK 19:01, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

My apologies, but I'll have to review this issue later, I need a bit of a reprieve from conflict. Thank you both for your patience. El_C 19:20, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

poetry

Why should poetry not be a slogan?

Why should poetry not be

biased

when life is not at all itself

For life's sake,

I expect a poem to be

a slogan

a dagger

a fist

and a bullet if necessary

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