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Separate articles for Tea Party protests and Tea Party movement?

There is a discussion going on at Talk:Tea_Party_protests#Proposed_Move_to_Tea_Party_movement, and in the talkpage sections before and after that section, on whether or not it might be encyclopedically useful to separate the articles for Tea Party protests and Tea Party movement, or {{Merge}} them into a single article by expanding the scope of the TP protests article to include the broader activities of the incipient TP movement. As of 13 January 2010, the Tea Party movement article redirects to Tea Party protests]]. Please weigh in if you have an opinion. N2e (talk) 21:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

The move had consensus, discussion on the move is now archived. Publicus 22:19, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

The transition from Tea Party protests to Tea Party movement

Here is an article that might be useful for sourcing the ongoing transition from disparate Tea Party protests to the broader Tea Party movement: Press Takes a New Look at Tea Parties After Brown Win : It would have helped Dems if they'd done it sooner, Weekly Standard, 2010-01-20. I'll leave it for others to decide which articles to use to source the transition within Americal political history. N2e (talk) 21:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Genealogy of the movement

I think it would be helpful to break down the different entities that make up this movement. Here are two segments from the Rachel Maddow Show that cover the different organizations, although the segments are probably too POV to use as sources. Below that is a list of the key groups we might include. Thoughts?

• Libertarian anti-tax movement ~ Original pre-Obama activists
• Tea Party Patriots ~ Grassroots group with help from Freedomworks
• Tea Party Express ~ Bus tour run by consulting firm Russo Marsh and Associates (Move America Forward)
• Tea Party Nation ~ Holding a National Convention in February with Sarah Palin as a speaker. (Star Tribune news story)

MakeBelieveMonster (talk) 18:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I've changed the last bullet point slightly, and added a source. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 15:14, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Grammar, sentence structure

When putting in information be careful of run on sentences. Short sentences with subject verb direct object are best.Malke2010 20:15, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

positions and goals section

I moved this section up in the article because of its importance and to enhance understanding for the reader.Malke2010 07:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

lead/lede

The article lead contained multiple errors of fact and POV pushing vis-a-vis that the movement has risen up as an anti-Obama movement, making it appear that as soon as he was inaugurated, protests began against him. This is not at all true. The movement originated in Seattle Washington because of frustration over the stimulus package. It gained ground after the March 2009 disclosure of the AIG executive pay bonuses, and the increasing number of home mortgage foreclosures despite provisions in the bill to support the banks holding the notes. Also note, that it is a grass-roots movement and also, it is not accurate to call it a conservative movement. People of all races and political persuasions have joined this movement. Please do not make changes without first discussing them here. Thanks.Malke2010 07:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

You say that the other editors are pushing POV and that it is not accurate to call the Tea Party movement conservative. Most of the news reports I have seen do call it a conservative movement. Or a libertarian movement which, in common parlance, is on the conservative side of things. Our guide, especially on controversial matters, should be what is verifiable through the majority of reliable, secondary sources, not what someone thinks is true. Also, the way I read the article, it's not an anti-Obama movement; it's an anti-stimulus/anti-TARP movement.

By the way, do you have a reference for Seattle being the origin of the movement; that is, the first time the term Tea Party was ever used about this movement? I think we should limit ourselves in this article to situations where the term Tea Party was used, except in History where you can go back to Boston or even Ancient Greece, if you have the sources. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 15:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Ron Paul's mention in lead

Yesterday, Malke 2010 moved the paragraph on Ron Paul from History to the lead, citing a need for "clarity".

In my opinion, Ron Paul is only tangentially involved in the Tea Party movement and then only to its history, unless someone has a source that says the term Tea Party (in its modern context) derives from Rep. Paul's speeches. (Or he attended a TPM rally or mentioned TP in congress, etc.) In addition, by eliminating the second sentence in the History paragraph (But no independent movement...), the sole reason (IMO) for Rep. Paul's inclusion in the first place was also eliminated.

I have just reorganized the paragraphs in the lead section. Without the sentence about Ron Paul in the lead, the two sentences in the paragraph before it more properly belong at the top of the article just after the definition. I will make this change and restore the two-sentence paragraph (from the 19:40, 28 January 2010 version) to History some time within the next few days unless someone objects. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 14:49, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

The lead should summarize the article so that the reader can understand the topic by just reading it without having to read the whole article. The Tea Party Movement had a dramatic increase in protesters after the AIG bonus pay was announced. The citation from the New York Times should also be kept in place.Malke2010 15:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, the lead should have the following paragraphs: definition/etymology, history, positions for, reactions against. The scope of the article should be what's included under the definition and nothing else except for, possibly, a subsection named Background under History. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 16:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Lead/lede

I'm going to remove the reference to Fox News as a promoter of the protests. After researching this, I discovered that Fox News was the only news show to give coverage of the protests. Network shows like ABC World News with Charles Gibson, NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams, and CBS News with Katie Couric pointedly did not mention the protests, when they did later on, they presented them in a negative way. Fox News was not a sponsor nor a promoter. On their other shows, their opinion shows, on cable, they talked it up in the same way MSNBC and CNN talked it down. This is POV pushing and does not belong. WP:NPOV. Malke2010 15:15, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

We have multiple reliable source that discuss how fox promoted these events (and really, that fact is undeniable to anyone who has seen their coverage). The sentence in the lede is mentioning that there were counter-protests/backlash against Fox which there were. --Loonymonkey (talk) 15:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)::

Please cite your "multiple reliable source(s)". We already have one -- Politico's "Fox teas up a tempest". It certainly sounds to me like Politico is accusing Fox of being a promoter (not a sponsor). --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 16:07, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

This is POV pushing. If there were specific protests against Fox news for legitimately covering the events, then that information can be mentioned with appropriate citations later on. It does not belong in the lead since this is not about Fox News. I am removing it because it violates WP:NPOV. Please do not edit war. Use the talk page, and work toward establishing neutral POV.Malke2010 15:42, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Malke, please cite your sources that Fox News was not a promoter. You can't just eliminate a reference by saying that's POV pushing; that's WP:OR. If we have different, widely-held points of view from reliable sources, we can deal with that in a controversy section, like teabagging. In the meantime, I see nothing dreadfully wrong with removing (temporarily) the five words "including the Fox News Channel" from the lead. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 16:07, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

History

The history section is completely POV pushing. It begins with Rush Limbaugh. He did not initiate the protest movement. This was a grass roots movement and the history of how it got started belongs here. Whether or not partisan commentators used the protest to increase market share for their programs has nothing to do with what an ordinary citizen started. Commentators such as Rush Limbaugh and Rachel Maddow flog something until they start to lose viewers/listeners, and then they go on to flog the next thing that is popular at the moment. This section needs to be rewritten with the actual history of the movement from the citizens, not the people making money off it.Malke2010 15:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Tea bagging controversy section

I noticed in this section an especially POV pushing and offensive sentence: "Continuing with the theme that "Tea Bag Movement" members were ignorant rednecks, Cartoonist Mark Fiore produced a satirical piece for NPR purporting to teach viewers how to speak "Tea Bag," ironically depicting Tea Party members as incapable of political discourse beyond name-calling. He claims to have received death threats because of the piece. "

I think the entire paragraph is inflammatory and could be seen by readers as not only extreme POV pushing, but racist as well, since the majority of the protesters were white. I am deleting it.Malke2010 16:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

1. Mark Fiore Cartoonist Receives Death Threats Over "Learn to Speak Teabag" Common Dreams NewsCenter 01.10.10