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Ozguroot canvassing again

Ozguroot (talk · contribs) has for a second time canvassed fifteen partisan users to a very charged discussion (Talk:Passport and Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-02-04/Passport). The users contacted all have commented on one of the two pages previously, and all in opposition. None of the editors who had supported the compromise were contacted. It only takes a brief search for the names of editors canvassed on Talk:Passport to see how methodically they were picked for their views. Considering the fact that this discussion was previously only held between three users, this has the potential to completely undermine days' worth of discussion, perhaps even destroy the extremely precarious compromise reached. Ozguroot has previously canvassed two users to the discussion, in a foreign language, and was subsequently repeatedly pointed to WP:CANVASS (read from my "03:41, 16 January 2010 (UTC)" edit to Talk:Passport) - there is simply no excuse, and I feel a warning is insufficient in light of the irreparable damage done to 160kb of discussion held on Talk:Passport over the last few weeks.

It has been raised on ANI before Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive593#Passport-related_edit_war) that Ozguroot may be a sock-puppet due to the similarity between his editing patterns and those of another sock-master, as well as his strange out-of-the-blue editing history. The possibility was never properly investigated.

Diffs: 16 Jan 09 canvassing:

1. Kerem Ozcan (translation: Google)
2. Kaygtr (translation: Google)

Today's canvassing:

1. Vmenkov
2. Jake Wartenberg
3. Valenciano
4. Rave92
5. Qwerta369
6. Tomi566
7. El Otro
8. Pryde 01
9. Gaston28
10. Philip200291
11. Tetromino
12. Bonus bon
13. Glenfarclas
14. Sky Harbor

And one in a foreign language, also from today:

1. Ajdamania2 (translation: Google)

One of the users above (Pryde 01) even launched a very scathing personal attack on the talk pages of me and another user and was subsequently given an only-warning by an administrator.

It pains me to report Ozguroot right after he had posted his very possibly first rational reply, and I would like to note that this is not an attempt to kill discussion, there is another very committed editor (Avala) with which my discussion on the subject matter continues, but I feel as though I've been wasting my effort only to be toppled by simple brute-force numeric supremacy. My Mediation Request has not yet been taken up by a mediator, and I am not sure what to do. Considering the fact every oppose has been notified, would it be prudent for me to canvass all the support votes, in an effort to return balance to the façade of discussion being held at Talk:Passport and Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-02-04/Passport? Action against Ozguroot, as well as advice on how to proceed with the discussion, would be much appreciated. —what a crazy random happenstance 04:36, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

They are the editors of the articles in subject. User:Happenstance could actually do that, instead of me, to notify them and let them know about the change or his "decide", before making over 250 deletions. But he did NOT never tell anyone. They don't know what is happening. Additionally, i am afraid that "Ozguroot has for a second time canvassed fifteen partisan users."' is totally a lie. When was the first time? I don't remember. I just asked for the opinions of two editors. - If you call this "canvassing FIFTEEN partisan users". Also please have a look at United_States_passport, Ukrainian_passport, its not only about a single editor, none of the articles editors accept your own "decide/consensus". But you ignore their opinions, you insist, insist, insist and delete, delete, delete. They were keeping undoing your changes as well. Is this a consensus, is this a solution? Let's be . As we see, you deleted the sections of over 250 Misplaced Pages articles, and you did NOT want NOBODY to get notified before doing so. That's not normal, in my humble opinion. Your reason was: (rm visa-free bloc per consensus on Talk:Passport). But there was NOT such a consensus at all. See Talk:Passport, too many OPPOSE editors there. Which consensus? Shortly, I just asked for their opinions on the matter. It pains me to hear "Ozguroot may be a sock-puppet" only because i asked for the editors opinions, so they could help on that matter, - as we were never reaching a consensus- . Why not to discuss all together, instead of an edit war? Regards. --Ozguroot (talk) 07:40, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

OK here is my view - Happenstance, Ozguroot did what you were supposed to do. This is not canvassing, but notifying regular editors, something that you failed to do and caused all the mess on the Passport talk page. He also did it in neutral manner, something that you also probably wouldn't be able to do.--Avala (talk) 16:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I object to be being called a "partisan user," as Happenstance calls me above. My handful of edits on this issue do not display one iota of partisanship, and I take this remark as uncivil and a failure to assume good faith. My attempt to smooth it over with Happenstance was not successful; his response was, it's not pejorative, I'm just saying that you're devoted or biased toward one side. That's not at all true, in any sense, and I feel it's appropriate to make my objection here.  Glenfarclas  (talk) 20:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

So, rather than notifying me you still had problems with my clarification, you chose to come here without even dropping a line on my talk. And then you say I violated WP:AGF. I have explained my definition of partisan, and I have stated that it was not intended to be pejorative. We clearly have differing definitions of the term. Mine comes straight from the WP:CANVASS policy. —what a crazy random happenstance 06:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The total apathy and lack of administrator response to what is a repeated and rather serious violation of a significant behavioural guideline is quite worrying, and could very easily completely undermine weeks' worth of discussion. —what a crazy random happenstance 12:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Abusive IP Addresses

Moved to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Soft blocking AOL.

Personal attacks and disruption on Talk:Sarah Palin

We need an uninvolved admin at Talk:Sarah Palin, where Scribner (talk · contribs) has descended (again) into personal attacks and tendentious editing. Disregarding his total failure to assume good faith (towards any editor whose views differ from his own), he has made his current target SB_Johnny (talk · contribs) who was identified by the community as an uninvolved admin assigned to deal with disputes on the article. (See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive504#Sarah Palin probation proposal.) Since Johnny is the target of Scribner's abuse, he might be accused of a CoI if he blocks Scribner, so I am asking for another uninvolved editor to take a look and decide if action needs to be taken. FWIW, I have a long history of conflict with Scribner on this specific article (and no others), so take this report with a grain of salt. Horologium (talk) 04:44, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

He's pushed a lot, but not to the point of blockability quite, in my opinion. I have left a warning on his talk page. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 05:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Horologium, you've got history with this article that's quite embarrassing. (Redacted personal attack.) But, as an administrator and editor you're the worst I've encountered. Scribner (talk) 06:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Georgewilliamherbert, on top of Johnny's failed enforcement of policy regarding personal attacks, there's been retaliation edits on the TN GOP article by Malke. So, in attempting one simple edit on the Palin page, I feel like I've suffer three separate retaliations. Wiki at its worst. Scribner (talk) 06:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Is Palin alleged to have violated the law? Keep in mind she doesn't own those books, the publisher does. If she wanted to distribute them to contributors, she probably had to buy them (possibly at wholesale rate). ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:50, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I've redacted an absolutely unnecessary personal attack from the preceding comment. jæs (talk) 06:46, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

That comment looked like a paraphrasing of what Auntie Em said to Miss Gulch. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:50, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Auntie Em said: "For twenty-three years I've been dying to tell you what I thought of you! And now... Well, being a Christian woman, I can't say it!" If Mrs. Em were an editor, I'd advise her of the same: attacking another editor is not the way to address your concerns. If Mrs. Em took a nastier route, and was also an editor with a history of poisoning the well, as it were, I'd redact her comment. In either case, I'd suggest Mrs. Em avoid directly interacting with Mrs. Gulch if she couldn't keep her opinion of Mrs. Gulch to herself. jæs (talk) 02:58, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I find it ironic that the Palin article is alleged to have been "scrubbed clean". Where have I heard that before? For the Obama article, that's where. Apparently,[REDACTED] is infested with both liberals and conservatives. Forsooth! ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 05:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, indeed! It's just preferable, in fact obligatory, that said liberals and conservatives focus on editing productively -- as opposed to disruptively -- and not attack each other. It's possible, I tell you! jæs (talk) 05:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Psst....Why are you guys talking in small letters? Doc Quintana (talk) 21:55, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

To conserve space. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:59, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

If you're interested, I can provide diffs from another edit war he's conducting over at Tennessee Republican Party. I used the talk page to discuss concerns and put POV and Criticism tags. He removed them. He argued. I got a 3rd Opinion. The 3rd Opinion editor found the article had a racist slant. I put the tags back. He removed them. Another editor put them back just now. He removed them again. If he doesn't get his way he puts tags up. If he doesn't like what you say, he takes them down. Diffs upon request. It is impossible to reason with this fellow.Malke2010 07:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Blocked for disruption for 24 hrs. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 07:03, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I hope that, after this ends, he doesn't do that again.— Dædαlus 07:17, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

(OD)He just removed a declined unblock request, and I have just reverted him. I also warned him that such attempts would be met with a loss of the ability to edit the talk page.— Dædαlus 08:13, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

And he just removed it again. I of course reverted him. Can an admin possibly warn him?— Dædαlus 09:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I've done so. I referred him to WP:BLANKING which states that declined unblock requests cannot be removed for the duration of the block, and warned him that removing it again will cause him to lose the ability to edit his own talk page until he is unblocked. -- Atama頭 17:39, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Sanction time?

Uninvolved admin here ... I just looked at his block log. Good grief, it's genormous. Could it be time for a topic ban of some kind? Looks like it to me. Blueboy96 17:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not condoning this user's recent actions, esp the edit warring to remove the unblock decline, but that block log is not exactly what I'd call enormous. There's only 3 blocks that were not overturned well before the duration was up, and those were about 3 years ago. Tarc (talk) 18:06, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess it's because it looks like this has been an ongoing problem ever since he arrived here--the first block was back in 2006. Tells me this is a problem that should have been nipped in the bud a lot sooner than now. Blueboy96 18:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Tarc, Scribner had only 32 edits between April 24, 2007, and February 11, 2009, which explains the big gap in his block log. There is no evidence that he has learned from his previous blocks. He has been unblocked because he promised not to do the same behavior on the article in question (different article in each case), but that hasn't stopped him from repeating the same modus operandi on different articles. Also notice that all his recent activity has focused on three hot-button political issues (Sarah Palin, Tennessee Republican Party, and Tea Party movement, in which he is very clearly displaying a pattern of POV pushing behavior. Horologium (talk) 18:48, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Just pointing out that it wasn't as lengthy as I expected it to be, put down the pitchforks. It does appear that his talk page will have to be locked soon though, due to the repeated removals of the block decline notice. Tarc (talk) 18:56, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

(OD)Looking through the block log of this user, I see that they have primarily been blocked for edit warring/personal attacks, and as of the block before last, that time had been extended until a week, then lifted on the promise he wouldn't do it again. Seeing as how he has obviously done it again, what is the next step up? 24 hours is too short for a repeat offender.— Dædαlus 20:22, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

• I'm requesting an indefinite ban for Scribner from US politics-related article. I was watching over the Sarah Palin article a couple months back, and Scriber was definitely one of the major problems at the article then. Looks like things have not changed much since then, and it has been even longer of a problem than I have thought. Thoughts? NW (Talk) 20:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I won't !vote below (due to my involvement), but I think that's a good idea. Horologium (talk) 21:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Indef topic ban

Per what NW said above, and to centralize discussion and for ease of editing,

• Support - Per what NW has outlined above and this user's block log. Broken promises is all they have to give. Maybe this will prevent further disruption from them.— Dædαlus 21:04, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
• Endorse If this user hasn't learned to cool it down in four years on its own, sadly we're gonna have to force him to do so. Blueboy96 21:56, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support - The amount of time an editor uses up in dealing with Scribner on these pages is lost from building the project. Scribner does not respond to working within process. Only one thing he said on the Tenn Republican Party talk page showed any ray of light of understanding when he said he could see my point about an edit. He also said he didn't support my point, but he could understand it. He said all this about ten minutes before he got blocked. The Sarah Palin episode caused so much disruption. He came over to the Tea Party Movement article and slapped tags on it because he disagreed with a comment on the talk page. It feels like a boulder has dropped on an editor's head when he appears on a page. But in the last 24-48 hours he seems to have been especially disruptive. I don't know what is at the root of this. But for now, a topic ban might help him regain some perspective. He's right about the Tenn Republican Party being racists, and it's Tenn, throw a rock you'll hit a klansman. And Sarah Palin isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but this is an encyclopedia, and not a forum for disruption, or a soapbox, or a soap opera.Malke2010 06:55, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Sorry, what? That post was full of wrong. Throwaway85 (talk) 10:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Ban from what topic? If you're going to propose a topic ban, you should state what topic the user is banned from. 67.51.38.51 (talk) 16:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

NW wrote, "I'm requesting an indefinite ban for Scribner from US politics-related article.". You can see this right above this section. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:22, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

That is as may be, but it should be specifically indicated at the point where you make the proposal. 67.51.38.51 (talk) 16:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

It is. I quite clearly state, "as NW said above..."— Dædαlus 22:33, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose I haven't visited Tenn Republican Party or Tea Party movement but the core issue at Sarah Palin is a content dispute (gosh!) between Scribner and several other editors with opposing POVs. It's ruthless and nobody plays nice. I can't be arsed to go through the diffs, but observing developments at SP talk leaves a strong impression that pressure is subtly but regularly applied towards sanitizing the article (plus ca change. . .), and one or two in Scribner's opposition appear to have ownership issues, all of which Scribner resists. The proposed catch-all topic ban serves the interests of SP's WP protectors at the expense of the article itself. Scribner seems clued-up on SP and may have much to offer, but is not afraid to speak his/her mind rather bluntly, is outnumbered by opposing editors, and reacts too strongly for his/her own good to the goading and bullying etc. that SP talk offers would-be contributors who are not members of the Palin club. (Although arguably no stranger to personal attacks him/herself, Scribner has also been on the receiving end of abuse and apparent attempts to run him/her off the article. Few if any hands remain spotlessly clean at SP.) Given that Scribner's problems at SP appear to be largely procedural, solutions that are more constructive and less draconian might be worth considering here. E.g. WP:Mentorship. I'd like to hear what Scribner has to say about that. Writegeist (talk) 18:40, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Involuntary mentorship has a track record of prolonging conflicts and burning out mentors. If this editor has already sought out a mentor proactively that might be another matter? The difference has something to do with "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." The people who succeed through mentorship tend to be the ones who recognize the need for it and seek it out without being compelled. Durova 01:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
• Reluctantly support an indefinite topic ban. He is evidently growing increasingly unable to work within the guidelines set here, at an article on probation no less. The increasing attacks against anyone who disagrees with him combine with a long history of disruptive editing and a nearly complete inability -- within this topic area -- to work towards consensus. (I've seen one instance in which he was part of a process that resulted in consensus, but it was fraught with disruptive tactics on his part, and he's now taken to using that event as a line of attack against an administrator and editor involved in that process. Hardly heartening.) After a period of time (perhaps a few weeks or months), if he is willing to agree to take the personal attacks and disruptive tactics off the table, then I'd support lifting the topic ban. jæs (talk) 18:44, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Scribner is back at it on the Sarah Palin page. He's not using the talk page. He's adding to the lead and putting up a POV tag. No consensus, no discussion. If you want to know what Scribner has to say on an indef topic ban, I believe he's spoken.Malke2010 23:13, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I wanted to mention I don't think any editor is trying to run him off articles. Editors just want him to work within the process which means working for consensus. Right now he seems to think he doesn't need to do that.Malke2010 00:30, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose . Some of the points Scribner made hold merit. A few of the editors on the page have been rather uncivil and I think that coupled with the fact that other editors disagreed with him resulted in frustration and shouting back. I don't think it yet merits admin intervention.Chhe (talk) 01:08, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

NOTE If you feel my edits to the Palin article were an attempt to damage the integrity of Wikiapedia as an encyclopedia, I should be banned from the Palin article. There's been no malice on my part, other than to add two simple facts. Don't blame me for standing my ground and defending policy. Look at the vast amount of effort it took to include the simple fact that Palin did not complete her first term as governor. Horologium fought the edit the hardest, claiming it POV. The wholesale POV in the article speaks for itself. Scribner (talk) 04:03, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

A couple hours ago, I banned Scribner from Sarah Palin-related articles, talk pages, and community discussions. I still think that this discussion should continue to see if the community wishes to expand the scope of the ban. NW (Talk) 04:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Writegeist it's "he" by the way and Chhe, thanks very much for your input. Malke, you appear to have a problem with exaggerating and honestly lying, for lack of a better term, in the case of your claims with the TN GOP article and the Tea Party movement article. I think you suffer from WP:OWN issues with regard to conservative issues. Misplaced Pages becomes less an encyclopedia by shutting down vigorous debate. One thing I noticed when I returned to Misplaced Pages is that the best editors I had the pleasure of working with had left. It's obvious why the effort continues to degrade. Scribner (talk) 05:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Need help with a situation

119.160.18.209 (talk · contribs) has been, for the past few weeks, sparring with Omirocksthisworld (talk · contribs), and they've been edit-warring on multiple articles. After a recent block, Omirocksthisworld has been toning down his aggression, but there's a lot of bad blood here, and 119. doesn't seem to understand the term "agree to disagree".

Tonight's incident seems to be spread across two articles, at WP:AN3 and WP:RPP respectively. However, while Omi has at least been civil this time, 119. seems to be feeling cheated out of an arms race and is starting to cross over into harassment, issuing ultimatums, copy-and-pasting a 3RR report Omi filed against him, and berating him for "issuing an ultimatum" (actually the bog-standard {{uw-3rr}}). Since I need to head off to bed, could a chummer take over for me? —Jeremy 10:36, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

As I was notifying the IP, it was blocked 24h. Depending on his behavior, this thread may have been rendered moot. —Jeremy 10:41, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)And as I was writing this, ... IP Blocked for 24 hours for violating 3RR, but as this IP has only been editing today, I expect we will have this Karchi based editor, using Mobilink-Infinity, back again soon. I'll have a word with Omirocksthisworld. Dougweller (talk) 10:45, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Though personally I have nothing against this editor, the fact that he was not willing to discuss issues or even attempt to reach an agreement really irritated me. At first I just kept reverting his edits hoping that the strange edits would stop or that he would start to attempt to work things out, but I think I made him angrier and he seemed to felt that it was personal. That's when the edit warring issues started and I ended up getting blocked for forgetting Wiki procedure. This time around I reported him, which I think made him feel even more like I was personally against him or something (at least thats what it looks like from his comments on my talk page). I think the main issue with the other editor is that he doesn't know English too well so when I try discussing things with him he doesn't quite understand, and it looks like he is from Pakistan because he was using derogatory words in Urdu on Talk: Younus AlGohar. Since this issue has been ongoing I think I will have to put an RFC tag on the articles that the IP has been having problems with so that this doesn't keep happening. Hopefully things will get better once different neutral editors start discussion on the talk pages. I'm very sorry for my part in all these disruptive editing wars and my mistakes with Wiki procedure. --Omi(☺) 11:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

This user (who may be Falconkhe?) is today engaged in related behaviour at Sufism. See edit diff, and also earlier article history and talk page comments. Esowteric+Talk 12:22, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Has just returned as 119.160.36.86 and made the same change to Sufism, possible to avoid 3RR edit war. Esowteric+Talk 15:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Falconkhe is also engaged in an edit war with Omirocksthisworld today at Younus AlGohar: see the article history. RAGS International shows a similar history of conflict. Esowteric+Talk 16:16, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Don't blaim me for 119 acts, what you are getting is readers response might be but I should not hold responsible for that.Its true that I have some differences with Omirocksthisworld but it doesn't mean that I was blaming for doing nothing. I always try my best to abide the rules & regulation of wikipedia--Falconkhe (talk) 16:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Hmm well I don't know if it was an edit war, but he was removing the references I was adding (hopefully by mistake). His edit summaries on the article history have been confusing though. Anyway, we've been discussing it in Talk:Younus AlGohar and hopefully we can come to an understanding soon. Though I personally don't have anything against Falconkhe myself, his recent edits to Younus AlGohar, RAGS International, Imam Mehdi Gohar Shahi, and pretty much all the articles/pages related to Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi haven't exactly been constructive. Omi(☺) 21:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Omi you are getting confused since you are a lier but you don't know one thing that a lie has to be reveal one day. MFI and Younas are the terrorist, this is the reason you have to flee from Pakistan and this is the only reason that you people are facing legal problem in all other countries whereever, you are taking shelters, the people of MFI have misused the law of UK and used it for taking legal shelters under the umbrella of asylyme, you have misguided British Government and provide false proof (like you are doing on wikipedia) to them. We are planning to use interpole to bring younas back to Pakistan and hopefully it will not take long time.--Falconkhe (talk) 07:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Possible block-evader

I suspect that User:70.171.236.188 may be the blocked Catterick (earlier account being Lord Loxely) account. The IPs blogging at Template talk: English, Scottish and British monarchs appears familiar & his recent evasivness (in the last few minutes) seems curious. Could somebody run an SPI on it? GoodDay (talk) 19:13, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The IP account seems to have demanded that nobody contact him at his talkpage, asking that nobody spam it. Either my suspicions are correct or we've a paranoid newbie. GoodDay (talk) 19:26, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Don't see any edits from Catterick (talk · contribs) recent enough to be useful for checkuser; anything more recent, possibly from other related accounts? Whatever the case, the IP's behavior is definitely odd but that's not conclusive in and of itself, just yet. Is there anything specific that makes you think they might be related? – Luna Santin (talk) 19:53, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Its behaviour at talk:Danelaw & more importantly talk:Angevin Empire is becoming obnoxious. GoodDay (talk) 19:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Noticed some similarity to C's edits at Talk:List of English monarchs. Still looking. – Luna Santin (talk) 20:15, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I hope my suspicions are wrong, but the behaviour (rambling posts & rants) has a famililiar pattern. GoodDay (talk) 20:17, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

While GoodDay is gallivanting about to destroy another person, like this is WarCraft, he fails to look into the mirror to see how he pushes other people around all about wherever he goes, sticking his nose in business where it doesn't concern him, vociferously arguing with people despite them not inviting him to share his commentary, as he has done at User:TharkunColl and elsewhere in which he finds himself. It's okay to bring down that gavel hard on other people with know-it-all crusades about the Scottish succession, right? Whose political correctness is NPOV? Come, on GoodDay...your "do-gooder" Dudley Do Right crap and convictions about politics and religion are just as suspect as those of other people you have hounded here. Take it to your own conscience and cease to perturb others with this inner melodrama. 70.171.236.188 (talk) 20:24, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I've asked you a simple (yes or no) question at your talkpage & since then, you've avoided answering it. GoodDay (talk) 20:28, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Hop to it GoodDay. Do what I command you instead. How about leave me alone? 70.171.236.188 (talk) 20:30, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Were you Lord Loxley/Catterick? GoodDay (talk) 20:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Will you leave me alone? 70.171.236.188 (talk) 20:42, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The question is, who's you? GoodDay (talk) 20:44, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

And the answer is, check back in a week when he's unblocked. Although it might be a good idea for the admins to disable its talk page access and put a muzzle on its bizarre edit summaries. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The IP continues to rant/delete/rant/delete at his talkpage. Perhaps his talkpage should be blocked 'or' the block on his account extended. GoodDay (talk) 16:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It's Kenneth Alan

WP:DENY notwithstanding (it's never worked for this chap in the past) 70.171.236.188 is ultra-long-term disruptive editor Kenneth Alan, who has been with us since at least 2003, under a range of accounts including: Kenneth Alan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Kenneth Alansson (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) WikiRetiree (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Fitzpaine (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Lord Loxley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Borderer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). He also edits anonymously from a range of Cox Communications (Atlanta) addresses (in the past including 68.0.151.124 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and 68.110.9.62 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)). He's not very hard to spot - he's interested in Yorkshire and the Danelaw, ancient kings of England, and lengthy rants. He's blocked per Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Kenneth Alan with innumerable block evasions, and given the laundry list of subsequent blocks he's thoroughly community-banned. More than six years ago Kenneth told us "I want nothing to do with[REDACTED] anymore"; would that he lived up to his word. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 23:33, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

If that's the case, I'm glad he's fond of me. PS: Strange though, if he'd told me he wasn't Catterick? I likely wouldn't have reported him. GoodDay (talk) 23:36, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Did anyone notice that the original account isn't even blocked currently? Burpelson AFB (talk) 03:39, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It is now. -- Atama頭 19:03, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Compromised rollbacker account

Please have a look at User:DC. Account with rollback rights, most probably compromised: Rapidly reverting respected users (Darwinek, UncleDick...) to IP versions (eg , check contribs), blankened user pages, very unusual change in editing pattern since tonite. Skäpperöd (talk) 20:32, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Rollback removed, clearly the tool has been misused. -MBK₀₀₄ 20:36, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for containing that problem: the same thing happened to me. The DC account looks like it had a good track record, but suddenly the behavior was rapid and reckless. CosineKitty (talk) 20:40, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I took a peek and undid a few of those reverts. Looks like and remain (both valid vandalism rollbacks); not sure about . Might have been a compromised account, definitely worth keeping an eye on. – Luna Santin (talk) 20:44, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks like they just used it in an indiscriminate manner. –xeno 20:52, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The mix of edits reverted is bizarre, to be sure. Top edits from the watchlist, maybe? I'm mainly confused by the sudden nature of the outburst; looks like DC's been editing more or less without incident since July 2009 and got rollback in November, and I'm not seeing any obvious spark to set this off. – Luna Santin (talk) 21:00, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

WP:EWI or compromised account; DC's been too sane for too long for this to just be a reaction to something on WP. The mass rollbacks are easily explained by a "rollback all" tool used on a page somewhere; the blanking of the user, user talk, and edit notice pages are less explicable as an accident. Let's wait to see if a sheepish apology is forthcoming tomorrow, vs. continued odd behavior. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I too first thought maybe this was a misfire of a mass rollback but it doesn't appear to be in his monobook. Could be wikicide. –xeno 21:09, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Luna, have you performed a Checkuser to see if there is clear evidence of a compromised account? -MBK₀₀₄ 21:22, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Indeed I have; results aren't especially conclusive, but might lend or detract credence from whatever explanation we hopefully get from DC. – Luna Santin (talk) 21:25, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Would emailing DC be a good idea? —  Cargoking  talk  21:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'll do it. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 21:48, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I've also done so. This is certainly out of character for DC, whom I've always respected since I first came across him several months ago. HJ Mitchell | fancy a chat? 22:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I just got a response stating, "I left Misplaced Pages up on my computer in a common room in my dorms. Someone must've gone onto my watchlist and hit rollback a lot. Also I tried logging on to wikipedia, and it looks like my password was changed because I can't get back onto my account." He's now at work, so he won't respond to any e-mails for a while. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 22:28, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I expected as much. I've interacted with DC in the past, as recently as last month, and he seems like a respectable editor. I hope he won't make that mistake again, a person who lives in a communal place like a dorm needs to be particularly careful about computer security. -- Atama頭 22:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Since we know the account is compromised, can someone please block it? Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 22:57, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

 Done. Once he confirms he's back in control of his account, feel free to unblock. Fran Rogers (talk) 23:01, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

You should tell him to request a password reset before the dorm-mate prankster changes the email address attached to the account... –xeno 18:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• He's now claiming to have regained control. I've never dealt with this before, what do we do to confirm that? Beeblebrox (talk) 19:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

  Ideally if he's emailed someone in the past (when we knew he was in control of his account), he could email them again. This kind of thing is why it's important to set a {{User committed identity}}. He had an email address listed since Jan 15 on his edit notice, so I've emailed them for verification. –xeno 19:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Cool. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Once he is unblocked, certainly rollback rights should be restored. It's an unfortunate event, but I think he won't let it happen again.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Agreed - I'm sure he won't repeat the mistake. –xeno 12:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

User:Caesarjbsquitti soapboxing - community input requested

As I am semi-involved I feel it necessary ask for community input in relation to restricting User:Caesarjbsquitti. There is a long term issue with his use of talkspace, his attitude toward other editors and editing in breach of WP:OR, WP:SOAP. To my mind this user has demonstrated a disregard for site standards and policies that is fundamentally incompatible with the core principles of this site fo a number of years. I suggest it is time to restrict Caesar's talk page postings, or to consider an other community sanction.

Caesarjbsquitti (talk · contribs · count · logs · page moves · block log)
User:Caesarjbsquitti is continuing to use this site, its article pages, its talk space and its user space to push his ideas. Caesarjbsquitti has published a book which he uses his user page to advertise in breach of WP:USER and WP:AD . He uses talkspace to lecture us all on how 'The truth can lie' and has been doing so for years.
He has accused this site, its sysops, and other volunteers of intimidation and censorship
But the issue is that User:Caesarjbsquitti is soapboxing and forum posting on this site in relation to multiple topics. He repeated this behaviour today. Rather than block him I warned him again, and again (explaining why), and again. He hasn't listened. (please note also he posted the same stuff to two pages ) Therefore I'm bringing this to the community in order to request broader input on the situation.

History

He was topic banned from 9/11 articles for soapboxing, he was blocked twice for it, he has been repeatedly warned over the course of years but he is not listening.

I'm restricting evidence to edits since his topic ban in June 2008. For anyone interested in his behaviour before that please see this for an indicative situation and conversation related to the topic Devil.

Soapboxing since the 2008 topic ban

• Relevant policies & guidelines: WP:TPG, WP:SOAP, WP:NOTFORUM & WP:BATTLE

On Talk:English language .
On Talk:Thallium
On Medicine_in_China
On Talk:Crohn's disease
About feminism and bias against men
On Talk:Pornography
On 'abuse' topics (watch out for repeated phrases like censorship, hidden agenda etc)
On Talk:Political correctness

Multiposting

• Relevant policies WP:POVPUSH, WP:MULTI, WP:TPG,

On Vitamin talk pages

On domestic violence topic articles (June 2008) - please note the coatrack issue in this case.

Thanks for taking the time to review this--Cailil 05:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The issue of this complaint deals with the listing for Violence against LGBT People

The problem with the entry is that it polarizes the issue, as do many of the past entries on abuse, most notable againt men, and against the heterosexual community. Here is the reference provided.

A most notable case involved a bisexual women who killed her boyfriend, by becoming involved with a lesbian woman,Bisexual Girlfriend found guilty of axe murder

I will try to find another link. The fact as you say that the CBC does not make mention of the sexual orientation, (while other sites do) shows how censorship of this situation is quite prominent in North America, or at least Canada...Guilty verdict in lesbian axe murder

This article in the Toronto Sun makes mention of a lesbian, (the CBC report states same sex. Another article title refers to a bi-sexual woman. (good case study for political correctness ?)Toronto woman in court in bisexual love-triangle murder case

This article must remove gender or orientation biases because it is discriminatory. While it is true this group can be victimized by others, they also can be victimized by themselves and they can also be abusers.

The issue is addressed by someone else as well...Violence by LGBT

As a researcher of deceptive truths, ie half-truths it is important to overcome this deceptive and flawed type of reasoning. --Caesar J.B. Squitti: Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti (talk) 17:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

User:Alohahell repeatedly uploading copyvio, is a block in order?

User:Alohahell (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has updated numerous copyvio photos of locations in South Korea. For example:

• I deleted File:Shinsegae Centum City department store in Busan, South Korea.jpg, which he admitted to having stolen. He later replaced it with File:World's largest department store in Busan, South Korea.jpg, which is also questionable (Seb az86556 believes it's copyvio, see comment here).
• File:Daegu Tower.jpg, was obvious copyvio
• File:Ryugyong Hotel under construction on 26 August 2009.jpg, at FfD
• Since I posted this, Caspian blue has located the sources of several more of Alohahell's uploads. See the redlinks in A's upload log.

Overall, most of his images are 1) very low resolution, which suggests he doesn't have the original photos but simply copied them from news websites, etc.; 2) of a higher quality than he is probably able to do himself. Unfortunately, for most of the images I haven't yet been able to find exact copies (through http://www.tineye.com) yet, which is why I haven't taken much action. But based on his history, I'm beginning to think it's safe to assume that all his uploads are copyvio. There are two things that I think ought to be done:

1. Delete all of Alohahell's uploads both here and on Commons (see his upload log for en-wiki)
2. Block Alohahell for an extended length

Thoughts? rʨanaɢ /_contribs 06:00, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Support. This is getting tedious, esp. since he renames the files so they cannot easily be tracked, erases the meta-data so they cannot be compared, and then blatantly goes "me? no, why?" -- now we need to manually go around looking at thousands of pics online to spot similarities and arm ourselves with magnifying glasses. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 06:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

If we can come to an agreement that he's untrustworthy, I don't think we'll need to investigate every image. Specifically...if he did take these images, he should have the high-resolution versions on his computer or camera somewhere. We can simply ask him to upload those to prove that they're his; any image that he can't provide a high-resolution version for we can assume he stole, and we can delete it. rʨanaɢ /_contribs 06:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

This doesn't need a WP:CCI. Just delete his uploads presumptively per WP:COPYVIO. MER-C 08:23, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

If he has continued doing this after being warned, and if, as Seb az says, he is actively trying to deceive and evade scrutiny, then the answer must be: speedy delete everything, block indef, throw away the key, and ask the commons admins to do the same over there. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:16, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Good call. I was about to indef him myself, but it looks like FutPerf beat me to it. I've already had to spike a bunch of bad uploads already this morning ... my clicker finger's getting tired. Blueboy96 13:48, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages:Copyright violations supports presumptive deletion in cases like this: "If contributors have been shown to have a history of extensive copyright violation, it may be assumed without further evidence that all of their major contributions are copyright violations, and they may be removed indiscriminately." If there are too many in his history to easily run through them, a WP:CCI can help organize them. Otherwise, it seems mass deletion would be appropriate. --Moonriddengirl 16:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
• Per Moonriddengirl. None of the uploads I checked had camera metadata and a review of this editor's user talk page is worrisome: evasion in response to questions, lack of acknowledgement of a problem, plus a total inability to explain how he had supposedly gotten into North Korea to take a picture there. The AGF policy was modified last year to accommodate this type of situation. "When dealing with possible copyright violations, good faith means assuming that editors intend to comply with site policy and the law. That is different from assuming they have actually complied with either. Editors have a proactive obligation to document image uploads, etc. and material may be deleted if the documentation is incorrect or inadequate." Mass deletion is the best solution here. Durova 16:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Just a quick question...if I delete all his uploads, will ImageRemovalBot take care of removing links to them, or should I do that by hand? rʨanaɢ /_contribs 17:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Think so; not absolutely sure. One of his uploads had been transferred to Commons. I've deleted there. If any other cross-wiki deletions are needed please post the filenames here. Durova 17:22, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

These are the things he uploaded to commons with his own account: . There are also some that other people transferred, so I'll keep an eye out for them. rʨanaɢ /_contribs 17:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Here are more of his images that have been transferred to Commons: , , rʨanaɢ /_contribs 21:19, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I've deleted the rest of his images on en-wiki. rʨanaɢ /_contribs 21:30, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. No responses at the Commons admin board yet; will follow the links to the transfers. Durova 21:45, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Indeffed on Commons. Deleted selectively there; a couple of edits were legitimate derivative works, etc. Looks like we can mark this resolved. Durova 01:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Prod edit warring

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Reconsider the static is edit warring and reinserting prod notices. There is no requirement that he has to like my reasons. I demand he be reverted and warned. He can use AFD if he wants to play games —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.168.57.210 (talk) 09:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

User:Reconsider the static is not alone. Many editors are now reinserting prods again and again against policy. This is not fair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.168.57.210 (talk) 09:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

IP has raised this at AIV and Jimbo's talk page as well. And wants Scibaby back. :) Dougweller (talk) 10:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I have listed several articles which had prod tags replaced at AfD, as per instructions... Might as well get it deleted there to ensure consensus, as a prod can still be contested even after deletion at DRV. Hope this helps, --Taelus (talk) 10:27, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Two AfDs for one article within 5 days

Is it correct form to nominate a single article for second AfD within five days of the first AfD's closing? Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/DJ_Quicksilver_(2nd_nomination) was the subject of an AfD that closed on 1 February, and the closing admin on the first AfD made it clear that the article should not be deleted if it is sourced correctly. This doesn't seem right. Thank you. Warrah (talk) 14:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

In most circumstances this would be inappropriate. However, given the unusual nature of the original close (consensus to delete held up by the closer's discretion) mean that it's a question for the closing admin of the first debate whether or not the second discussion ought to be allowed proceed. I'll drop them a note.  Skomorokh  14:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

(Ec)Normally, I would find this disruptive. However, the previous Afd was closed as delete, not as keep. Then the article was subsequently restored with the promise of sources being added. Unitanode now contends that the sources added after restoration are inadequate, so I feel this Afd should run its course.--Atlan (talk) 14:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

AGF and stuff. One can re-nominate for AfD if a different enough reason for deletion appears. --Enric Naval (talk) 14:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I remember a 2nd AfD, I might have started it myself, starting shortly after an AfD with a keep result when it was discovered that the sources were fraudulent (not saying this is the case here, just that there can be good reasons for it). Dougweller (talk) 14:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The first AFD was closed as delete despite what looked like clear consensus to keep. The article was restored and sourced, but much of the article was found to be a copyright violation, so it was trimmed quite a lot. The article is now sourced and clearly passes WP:MUSIC in my view. The strange closure of the first AFD, and subsequent reversal led, I believe, to the second, but I can see the second AFD closing fairly quickly as either a snow keep or (hopefully) withdrawal by the nom if they are agreeable, so no real harm done overall. If we get a clear consensus this time and a closure that reflects that consensus we can all move on.--Michig (talk) 15:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The first AFD seems to have been closed based on the closing admin's personal opinions rather than consensus of the debate but since we now have a second AFD on our hands, I'd say let it run to make it absolutely clear what consensus is. I recommend a trout slap for Scott for his close of the first AFD. I know he is passionate about unsourced BLPs but closing an AFD is assessing the consensus of the discussion as it has happened and the consensus was not in favor of deletion nor did those arguing for deletion make solid policy-based arguments to justify it. The original AFD even had links to reliable sources in it after all and WP:DEL says "If it can be fixed, it should not be deleted". Regards SoWhy 15:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It does seem strange to AFD the article as it is now, it occurred after unitanode added two templates expert required and please expand and as I was involved in finding sources and working on it after the first AFD I felt that the details about this quicksilver are pretty much covered and that to expand the article you would have to waffle on so the templates are not going to help the article as imo the issues they cover do not apply, so I removed the two templates, unitanode then replaced them and immediately started the AFD, in what I thought was a reactionary way, it is clear if you look at the article that it is above the standard of quality and notability where it would require or get support for deletion. Off2riorob (talk) 15:59, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

This ought to be crystal clear. The first AfD reached a consensus that the article was notable. That would have meant keeping it, but the BLP article remained unsourced. I deleted it on that basis, until the sourcing problem was sorted. (People objecting to speedy deleting unsourced BLPs keep saying "take it to afd". Fine, but that doesn't work if the article gets kept and the sourcing issues ignored). Once the sourcing issues was adressed, then the article gets kept because consensus is that it is notable.

As for a second afd in five days, that looks poor form to me. We have a consensus that the article is notable, so unless there's new evidence, then an attempt to overturn it 5 days later isn't great. But my closure has nothing to do with that. The article was retained because it was notable - once sourcing was adressed, the initial closure can be read as a keep result.--Scott Mac (Doc) 15:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Personal attacks by User:Wikireader41

I want to bring to the attention of the administrators a series of personal attacks by User:Wikireader41 directed at User:Mughalnz. Wikireader41 repeatedly accuses Mughalnz of being an "Islamofascist", being "sponsored" by the I.S.I. (a Pakistani intelligence agency) to "spread propoganda" and being a wahhabi (an extremist sect of Islam). I first reported the following diffs here at the Wikiquette alerts page on 25 January 2010:

• Diffs from Talk:Al-Qaeda page:
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAl-Qaeda&action=historysubmit&diff=339664168&oldid=339663742
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAl-Qaeda&action=historysubmit&diff=339642045&oldid=339639555
• Diffs from Talk:Balawaristan National Front page:
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ABalawaristan_National_Front&action=historysubmit&diff=339661896&oldid=339658919
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ABalawaristan_National_Front&action=historysubmit&diff=339475058&oldid=339458122
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ABalawaristan_National_Front&action=historysubmit&diff=269397344&oldid=269333867

I also posted the following warning on Wikireader41's talk page:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3AWikireader41&action=historysubmit&diff=340011772&oldid=339453139

On 28 January, Wikireader41 responded at the Wikiquette alerts page by continuing to accuse Mughalnz of "pushing a stridently wahhabi POV", being a "paid editor", etc. He comments on Mughalnz's poor english and states he has reported Mughalnz to admin. He also responded to my warning by posting the following message at my talk page:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3AHj108&action=historysubmit&diff=340461756&oldid=326990429

On 29 January, Wikireader41 posted the following at Mughalnz's talk page, again containing accusations of Mughalnz being a "wahhabi POV pusher":

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3AMughalnz&action=historysubmit&diff=340643820&oldid=340621071
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3AMughalnz&action=historysubmit&diff=340657546&oldid=340652293

I do not believe Mughalnz's edits justify Wikireader41's abusive posts and there appears to be no change in Wikireader41's behaviour, despite a warning from User:Looie496 at the Wikiquette alerts page.

--Hj108 (talk) 15:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

You are supposed to notify the other party that they are being discussed here. I have done so. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

user mughalnz has been indulging in aggressive POV pushing and going around removing well sourced info about Al-qaeda activities in Kashmir. I would again state that he has been pushing a wahhabi POV. in spite of my repeatedly telling him to stop he was not backing off. moreover he is a self confessed dyslexic & was making very poor quality edits and not doing a basic spell check before posting in spite of several editors asking him to do so. I have reported him to 2 admins familiar with the issues involved in the articles covered and here . It is hard to be neutral towards people who seem to be siding with people who are actively seeking to kill anybody who doesnt agree with them but I have tried my best. Wikireader41 (talk) 21:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

You know, it was my intent to have you write the above and then block you for making personal attacks and editing to your perceptions of a contributors prejudices. As it is, I think too much time has passed so I will be giving you an only warning instead. LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

User wikireader41 has indulged in Saffronization many times now he continues to user saffron vedic abuse language directed at pakistanis only he has a one purpose account and has been blocked before for his Hindu Taliban style editing please check his block log for proof he needs a long block or a ban as he continue to spew his vedic garbage on[REDACTED] several users have warned him to stay away from pakistan related pages due to his inherent and inbred hatred for pakistan please ban him 86.158.236.180 (talk) 16:54, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit warring and blanking talk page comments

On being warned about taking an edit war approach on an article, User:Wolfkeeper has been blanking other people's comments on his talk page (, ). It looks as if he has been doing this in the past, also (). I don't know how to deal with this so I'm bringing it to the attention of experienced administrators. I don't know how to get him to play nice; as one of the stronger voices in this tedious deadlock it would be nice to see him playing nice so it could be resolved rather than being dragged out forever. Snied (talk) 15:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Users may delete others' comments from their own talk page, per Misplaced Pages:User page which says "Policy does not prohibit users, including both registered and anonymous users, from removing comments from their own talk pages". -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 15:52, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Do yourself a favor, back slowly away from Centrifugal force related articles and forget you ever saw them. It's one of the worst quagmires on Misplaced Pages, the regular cast of editors of those articles love to argue every tiny piece of minutiae to death, and will accuse you of being to dumb to participate in the discussion if you try to introduce some sort of sanity to their conversations. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

IP-hopper

An anonymous user is repeatedly removing other's comments from Talk:Open Watcom Assembler. However, they are operating from different IP addresses (or are 4 different people), including:

• 99.89.97.155 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 99.35.228.91 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 76.254.61.95 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 99.41.77.70 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 99.23.189.111 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)

Is there anything that can be done? OrangeDog (τ • ε) 16:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Prodrego has semi-protected it. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 17:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

These all belong to the same ISP: SBC Internet Services in California, SF area, and they've vandalized my user page as well. Pcap ping 14:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Anyone know who might be the puppet master?

HamSquidLllamaHam (talk · contribs) (see his user page) and Hopsticks (talk · contribs) look very much like socks. One created and the other edited the now deleted nonsense article Sauswich. Dougweller (talk) 17:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, but the first one claims to be "smarter then" ClueBot. :D —DoRD (?) (talk) 18:22, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

...(OT) don't mess with Cluebot! Skäpperöd (talk) 18:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Not sure if this was a good idea, but I really didn't like the content on their userpages. Some of the content they put have a negative effect on Misplaced Pages. I replaced them with those "Blocked indefinitely" templates. At least the blocked users can't change it unless their unblock has been granted. Minimac94 (talk) 18:49, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

That was a fine idea, although I appreciate the irony of a user who apparently does not understand that the Colbert Report is satire. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Satire??? Next thing you'll be telling us is that there's no Santa Claus, or that The O'Reilly Factor is legit. :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 20:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Consider taking this to WP:SPI yet? Perhaps if they make another account, but I'm not sure if waiting is a good option. ] 02:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Weird situation here.

Current IP:74.12.121.29 (talk · contribs) / Previous IP: 74.12.122.235 (talk · contribs)

For the last couple of months, this guy's been essentially trying to 'steal' Thomas (talk · contribs)'s user page. The user in question hasn't edited in some time, but it's still their page. The page has been semi-protected to keep him, off it, but now he's trying to tell people he's Thomas (which is clearly impossible; Thomas's edits were far beyond the IPs; this guy edits like puberty hasn't hit yet). Now he's even going so far as to fake the users sig. Any options here? HalfShadow 18:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I saw the contributions of both IPs. I now know that 74.12.122.235 hasn't edited since early January. The only IP that we have to be concerned about is 74.12.121.29 as he/she has been editing since today. Minimac94 (talk) 18:34, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought I should mention both anyway. Never hurts to be thorough. HalfShadow 18:38, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Adding 174.88.54.86 to the list per . Block 74.12.121.29, they're obviously only here for disruption. Throwaway85 (talk) 02:34, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Sock with disruptive sig

Synergy44 (talk · contribs) – who anyway appears to be an obvious sock – has been making a very strange series of edits, and his signature doesn't include a link to his userspace, as is required. Would someone mind peeping? Thanks! ╟─TreasuryTag►without portfolio─╢ 18:34, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The editor has admitted having multiple accounts, they even listed them at the top of their talk page. They also seem to be trying to use a proper signature, but are signing with some odd backwards tilde instead of the regular ones so the signature isn't appearing. The editor has apologized for having some problems "figuring out" Misplaced Pages. Either we assume good faith, and this is really a person with good intentions who needs help, or they are playing a prank on the community. I don't see evidence, yet, of the latter so I suggest just helping the person out, unless they just can't "get it" in which case we should consider WP:COMPETENCE. -- Atama頭 19:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

And the sig? ╟─TreasuryTag►Counsellor of State─╢ 19:49, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a weird sort of tilde, could it possibly be a font problem? Dougweller (talk) 22:02, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Hey, in his other account he never had any problem to sign properly. He made one good signature just four days before starting the new account....

And why does he say that he is making his first visit to the village pump if his other account has already visited it twice.

Either it's a different person or he is pretending to be new. I mean, dude, in his third edit he welcomed himself using the "Friendly" script --Enric Naval (talk) 22:12, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Birth name policy

Misplaced Pages articles usually give a subjects birth name, either as listed or with a caveat to the name the subject now uses stating "born as ***** ***** ****". I recently was checking the recent changes listing and came across these edits- 1 2, to the Kelly Carrington article. The edit summary for both edits states

"that information should not be public due to privacy and safety issues. thank you!"

I searched for any issues regarding Carrington and found none, but did not want to reinsert the sourced material without knowing if there are some Misplaced Pages policies involving this issue I do not know about. I made a comment asking the IP user the reasons for the removal, but wanted to also ask if I was missing something here. To be honest, I never heard of the subject before and her biography is very short and borders on being not notable enough for an article. Though I do want to know for future reference the policies for these issues. Thanks for any help. Here is the source that was removed and which leaves an error on the page. DD2K (talk) 19:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

This appears to be public information. My guess is that the IP is trolling. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

With the arguable exceptions of children and the victims of crime, WP:RS prevails. So, is tcpalm.com a reliable source? It seems to be a newspaper? Googling for the person's alleged birth name finds similar stories in the Palm Beach Post and the Orlando Sentinel. So this does appear to be public information. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:08, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks to both of you, those were my initial reactions also, but I wanted confirmation. Also, I do think TCPalm.com is a WP:RS, as it's a website that prints stories from a collection of SE Florida news outlets under the parent company of Scripps Treasure Coast Newspapers. Thanks again, and I think this can be marked resolved. DD2K (talk) 20:52, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it can't be marked resolved. I think you guys are wrong. The BLP policy states there is a presumption in favor of privacy. Is this woman's name well known? I know the general consensus for pornographic actors has been to not include the birth name unless it is widely known and published in several reliable sources. A very long, though somewhat dated conversation about that can be found here. I would assume the same holds true for print models. AniMate 22:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, one of those news stories is from a blog where the writer says Kelly Carrington is her real name, and her birth name is the alias suggested by Playboy. AniMate 22:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

While I appreciate Animate's desire follow the spirit of WP:BLP, in this particular case the use of the birth name does not seem to be an issue since it has been already used by reliable sources. Not only does this imply that the person gave their at least tacit approval with their participation, but anyone who can type a search string into Google can already find the information. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 22:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Agree with DC here. The policy says that Misplaced Pages shouldn't be the "primary vehicle" for claims about people's lives. To my mind, the fact it was used in a mainstream newspaper is the end of the ballgame. Blueboy96 22:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Repeated POV tag removal at Hugo Chávez

Hugo Chávez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Please see this POV tag removal, as well as this, this, and this, relative to this discussion. The most recent tag removal by User:The Four Deuces was after I posted specific POV concerns to the talk page. A related discussion is at the RSN. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I have left The Four Deuces a warning to cease edit warring, and shall watchlist the article. I don't think anything more is necessary for now, but feel free to make your own assessment. NW (Talk) 20:49, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks NW and Ludwigs2 (I'm most encouraged to see an ANI thread that doesn't fall victim to the peanut gallery :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

well, I have to say I really dislike it when people remove dispute tags before the dispute is resolved. I haven't fully grokked the page yet, so I don't yet know whether it actually has a POV problem, but there's no reason to remove tags peremptorily and a lot of good reasons to leave them on. give me a day or so to review the material fully and we'll see. --Ludwigs2 21:16, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

If you'd like for me to add more sources to the talk page (the work I started when I added the unbalanced tags), it will have to wait until after I promote WP:FAC. The lionshare of my time in the last two weeks has gone to trying to clean up Venezuelan BLPs, one of which had a most egregious BLP violation so I've been checking others, and I'm apparently the only editor on Wiki willing and able to engage the content on the Venezuelan articles. I can't get to any more for today. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Gadeshina33

I've gone through the process of locating the source image and tagging the copyright violations for speedy deletion on most of the images uploaded by Gadeshina33 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). There's a handful taken from sources too obscure for me to find in a reasonable time, so if someone can delete them on the basis that since everything else was a copyright violation, these probably are too, I'd appreciate it:

• File:Joe Jonas.jpeg
• File:Doug Brochu.jpeg
• File:Brandon Mychal Smith.jpeg
• File:Nathan Kress.jpeg

—Kww(talk) 20:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Macedonia (ancient kingdom)

Dear Sir, I would greatly appreciate if independent editors-administrators would examine the following case. Draganparis Sockpuppetry case Articles Refering to: Talk: Alexande the Great and Talk:Saints Cyril and Methodius as well as Talk: macedonia (ancent kingdom).

The problem is not sockpuppetry case. The problem is more then this. This is a case of a confrontation of one (or two – if at all) newcomer on Wiki where one tries to pursue a simple argument AND, on the other side, partially organised group of – how I underestimated them! – not 3-5 but about 10 or even more, basically Greek political fanatics.

The problem was always one word: whether Alexander the Grate was “Greek king” (certainly not, as I say, the Queen of England would be then German queen!!!); whether Cyril and Methodius were “Greek brothers” (they were of course Byzantine brothers – we can say Greek brothers but it is just slightly better to say Byzantine.). Trivialities. Yet, as the answers I received pages of unreferenced text rich in nationalistic and racist accusations. Who are these people? There is one who I can understand his/her condition and would not advance any explanation here. But the others who supported the front liner! The argument was absolutely trivial. But their excitation was bewildering!

As I said, the two small changes in the articles that I proposed were unimportant and a normal answer would have satisfied me. I started with a dose of humour, and this was a mistake, I admit - since the answer was a triple dose of hate. I was watching for about 1-2 years the bitter dispute of ths Greeks and their northern neighbours “Macedonians” and laughed. Not really shearing much of the feelings with both of them. But now I can see how hard this may be to the involved. My small interventions since about 2 years has been a kind of game of history, because the real history is wonderful game – if politics is kept away. I see now that you all have much, much more in that “game”, apart from history. This is where from comes that immense hate. However, I am against propaganda in science and what have happened here is appalling (accepting by the administrator the references that were copied-pasted from nationalistic pages and which are STILL there on the Talk page!), the uncivilised tone, the insults and the indolence of the "group" which thereby took part in this revolting event. This being not a sign of a conspiracy theory, but of THE conspiracy practice.

Of course it looked like that “Greek brothers”, for example, is accepted in popular literature (encyclopaedias) while Byzantine studies scholars prefer “Byzantine brothers”. I was ready to accept "Greek" - Wiki is popular, but not accusations and hate. I am even not Macedonian or Greek or involved politically in any of their blind disputes. I will give you, Misplaced Pages, my full name, telephone number, address, Misplaced Pages has my e-mail, I can give to the Misplaced Pages officials my University e-mail EVERITHING!! – if Misplaced Pages would request. You can then find on the internet my full biography, publications, all, absolutely all, all is public. But this must be requested by the highest level of Misplaced Pages and not by the front-liner who is obvious gang member. Let us verify all of these! If you dare to take a risk and uncover the gang of political pamphlets and falsifiers of history. But if you are a part of them, then… then I wish you all the best. Sincerely,Draganparis (talk) 21:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

You are wrong to say that the problem is not the sockpuppetry; you are only allowed one account, in general, and using more than one account to try to win a conflict is a serious problem. If you are right, and there are factual inaccuracies in this page, it is inevitable that other users will correct them. In general, you'll find that users who are pushing the Truth regarding national conflicts, no matter what they think the Truth is, are disruptive to our more mundane job of publishing the verifiable facts. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Note: I've reviewed this user's contributions and those of the accused sockpuppet. The two accounts are editing the same articles using the same writing style, pushing a point of view in a disruptive way, so I've blocked the newer one indefinitely and the older one for a week. If anyone disagrees, or feels a different response is more appropriate, please feel free to adjust this. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't there an ArbCom case about the whole Greek/Macedonian mess, or is that one of our ongoing squabbles? As far as the socking goes, seems pretty clear cut. Indef/1 week is a pretty standard block. Throwaway85 (talk) 02:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

There were two, and it's never going to be solved. WP:ARBMAC2 is the more recent of the two, and has some relevant discussion. Horologium (talk) 02:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Climate Skepticism

Would editors interested in keeping Misplaced Pages 'neutral' please help ensure this Climate Skepticism page is not summarily deleted by those responsible for the one-sided coverage of this issue elsewhere!

Gemtpm (talk) 22:55, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It's been tagged as a content fork of Global warming controversy, which seems like an unimpeachable justification to me. If the latter article falls short of our neutral point of view policy in your opinion, raise the probems on the article's talk page and work with your fellow editors to resolve them. --TS 23:02, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't the title indicate that this is an article about people who are skeptical that climate exists? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully this will end it: Redirect as per Global warming skeptic, stable for over two years. --TS 23:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

My, there do seem to be quite a few redirects to that page already... Not the last one by a long shot, either: note that Climate change denial is the latest proposed for merge. MuffledThud (talk) 14:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me or does this translate as "I am here on a mission and will make as much noise as I can, please ban me now"? Guy (Help!) 23:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It's just you.  Dr. Loosmark  00:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

No, it isn't. I also think CU results on this account could prove interesting. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

2000 users have been banned alrady for trying to make WP cover this issue in a balanced way. No - my page has been ludicrously deleted already - I requested its protection here. That request stands.Gemtpm (talk) 14:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

2000 users? Hardly -- please either provide your evidence for this or retract your claim. Dougweller (talk) 15:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Just someone mistaking the Solomon article for reality. Solomon counted WMC's total blocks (mostly from his time managing AN3) and claimed they were blocks of so-called climate "skeptics". Guettarda (talk) 15:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Aw, you spoiled it. Dougweller (talk) 15:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

DragonFable

Seems there is a bug or something while trying to delete this article after I closed Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/DragonFable (3rd nomination). I think it might be a MediaWiki issue. Can someone fix the problem? Thanks! JForget 02:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Articles with huge histories cannot be deleted by admins. It's to prevent the whole "rogue admin deleting the Main Page" thing we used to get. You'll need to find a steward. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Request made. --JForget 03:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

In the future, these quickie requests can be made on the #Wikimedia-Stewards IRC Channel on Rizon.net. I brought this to their attention and got the page deleted.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:24, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Instant attack

User:Hot Button Topic created an account and in 10 minutes made one edit, to my user page. . Niteshift36 (talk) 10:02, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Blocked. Someguy1221 (talk) 10:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Inappropriate block

This anonymous IP User talk:70.183.20.242 (apparently various libraries?) has been blocked with the text "bad faith prick" for six months, which would appear to be inappropriate on both counts. The block would appear to be in response to this post on the page of an indef-blocked user, who appears to have experienced much wikistress at the hands of that user. Sumbuddi (talk) 11:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

You don't say how the block is inappropriate. Could you elaborate on that? - NeutralHomer • Talk • 11:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The offending talk page message had already been reviewed and removed by another admin, and the blocked IP had been silent for several days. Blocking the (shared) IP serves no useful purpose. Also it is totally inappropriate for administrators to be exercising power on behalf of their friends (see e.g. ).

It is not appropriate to refer to people as a 'prick', and the extended length of the block (six months) also suggests a pissed off admin, not the dispassionate state of mind appropriate for blocking people. Also given that the blocked IP says that he has already got an account at home, blocking the IP is not just rage but impotent rage, having no effect other than to block the random users of the public library, and little to none on the user making the comments

Also, per WP:NPA, "Extreme personal attacks, or personal attacks based on race, religion, nationality or sexual identity of an editor are often grounds for an immediate, indefinite block until the remarks are retracted.

Lesser personal attacks often result in a warning, and a request to refactor. If a pattern of lesser personal attacks continues despite the warning, escalating blocks may follow, typically starting with 24 hours". No warning was given, and the block was clearly excessive per policy. Sumbuddi (talk) 12:45, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Judging from that tirade, I'd say the block is pretty appropriate. I'm just not sure if calling people "pricks" should ever be making its way into the block log though, no matter what someone did to deserve it. Equazcion 12:02, 7 Feb 2010 (UTC)

Maybe Enigmaman was merely implying he was sticking pins in the IP. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:33, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Or maybe he was making fun of the fact that the IP is registered to "cox.net". ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 15:02, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

IPs should generally only be blocked for short periods of time, especially if they are shared. Right now, we are preventing any non-logged in user from that location from editing. Not appropriate.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

That IP has a lengthy history of committing vandalism. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 15:02, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Any IP address can potentially be used by someone else at any time, especially with a lengthy block. Calling good-faith or potentially new editors 'pricks' through an IP block log is never appropriate. -- zzuuzz 15:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Given that IP (like any) could be shared or change hands, 'bad faith prick' is completely unacceptable. Block removed, he can be reblocked with a more descriptive reason if he starts vandalising again. Prodego 15:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Which it will, given the history... and will again... and again. I think there needs to be a policy change that "last warning" not be used with IP's, as it's basically a joke. They can always come back, be it in a day, a week, a month or a year. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Userfy request

Hi, could someone please userfy a copy of the deleted page Alec Powers? Viridae (talk · contribs) somewhat arbitrarily rejected my request to userfy after they speedy deleted the article (see User_talk:Viridae#Alec_Powers) and promised to email me a copy but now I've been left waiting 3 days, I suspect they have no intention of doing so. The article is under DRV Misplaced Pages:Deletion_review/Log/2010_February_5 where, so far, nobody has agreed with Viridae's decision to speedy delete. Ash (talk) 11:57, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Given that the article contains no controversial material and is under review at DRV, I see no reason to restrict its content to administrators. Full article and talkpage history at User:Ash/Alec Powers (talk).  Skomorokh  12:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Official Shakespears Sister And Siobhan Fahey Web Site

• • This issue was archived but it has not yet been resolved. Is the site going to unblacklisted? Sorry for puuting this topic back here if i wasnt suppose to Antmarkhemingway (talk) 12:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC).

Arhcive: Thank you FisherQueen for visiting our forum. I have uploaded the evidence here:: www. shakespears sister.co.uk/SFTRR.jpg (please remove the space between shakespears and sister ) I would like to complain here myself for the unfair treatment from XinJeisan, who in my opinion has totally acted in an unprofessional manner. Firstly; Songs From The Red Room, is not sold via the website, as it is a new release and availble via retailers during its Charting period. Websites very rarely sell new releases through their own web site, they usually provie and external link to another retailer, as we have done. Secondly, I totally think that XinJeisan is talking of another L Dennison, as I have no idea what that discussion is about on Ron Livingstons talk page. I can confirm I am the webmaster of both Jacquie O'Sullivan and Siobhan Fahey, both former members of Bananarama. Jacquie O'sullivan did work for L Dennison Associates where she casted dancers for music videos productions. My "attacks" on XinJesian were not exactly attacks, they were simply my opinion, and at first i was polite when I asked to why these sites were being removed. But my frustration, built as clearly Xinjesian and Momusfan clearly were not researching the matter properly. Finally, as for advertising, it has always been a well known fact to fans that the MGA Sessions was strictly a web site release! Sold exclusively on Fahey's old web site siobhanfahey.com, and now sold on her new site shakespears sister. co. uk. This wasnt an advertisment, it was helpful information to fans. Thank you for taking time to review this matter. And for the record, shakespears sister.co.uk should eb applied to both Siobhan Fahey and Shakespears Sister wiki pages, as Shakespears Sister is Siobhan Fahey. May i also ad that Xinjesian claims that i have used multiple IPS is totally untrue and with propper research you can see this. I have the one IP address, and my service provider is not Carphone warehouse and never has been. I think Xinjesian saw that our forum members were trying to add the site in support of Siobhan, and he/she has assumed/accused me of chaging my IP address. I really do not appreciate being accused of that. Antmarkhemingway (talk) 00:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Given that the image in question seems to show that this is indeed the official web site, I think that it should be removed from the blacklist. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 03:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Accounts

• Antmarkhemingway (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)
• 92.13.53.79 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 92.6.238.202 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 92.10.15.171 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 92.12.126.195 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 92.3.104.60 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 92.8.226.103 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 92.9.69.179 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 92.0.153.204 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 92.3.214.51 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)

Registrant(Owner) of these sites is Anthony Hemingway (AKA Antmarkhemingway (talk · contribs)). Long term spamming and abuse including Moving ones own link "UP", which is never a sign of good faith, and off site harassment and personal attacks origionating on the site in question. I Would find it difficult to believe this is anything more than a fan-spammed-site. I see no need for the continued disruption, harassment and abuse that has occured by this individual.--Hu12 (talk) 06:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Concur with Hu12. I suspect that Antmarkhemingway is running sanctioned fansites with permission from Jacquie O'Sullivan and Siobhan Fahey (so "official" in a manner of speaking). However, even if these were official sites registered to the band/record company/individuals involved, there's nothing to say that we have to include them. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia first and foremost and not here to drive web traffic to external sites or provide a fan service. Unfortunately we can only go by the behaviour we observe and Antmarkhemingway has done his sites no favours by behaving like a spammer. Looking at the history of spamming and disruption, I see no compelling reason why these sites should be unblacklisted. EyeSerene 10:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Hu12 is being very petty now i think! And this is not meant in a rude way, but if you knew anything about the internet, a persons IP changes regular, so that is something that is not my problem. Why would i go through the trouble to change my IP address for the sake of editing here? I am a webmaster and know full well that IP addresses are traceable even when changed. Shakespearssister.co.uk is Siobhan Fahey's web site and port of call. All news is posted their, and it is the place for media and fans alike. Those interviews you refer to on the wikipage were actually arranged via ss.co.uk!!! It is not a "fan site", and i really wish you would stop using that term, as you are really getting quite annoying now. Misplaced Pages has used information from ss.co.uk, but when teh contributors try and reference ss.co.uk they haven't been able to! Antmarkhemingway (talk) 10:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

If the band itself publishes the address as the go-to site on its albums, I'm not sure why it would not be an 'official' site. I don't really understand why this site is blacklisted, and I'm not convinced it's 'spamming' to have it in the article; most musician articles include the musician's main site with no problems. The band doesn't appear to be obscure or non-notable, after all. I have been horrified by some of the uncivil behavior I've seen from some of the people trying to add it, but we don't usually blacklist sites for that reason. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 20:57, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

There are such things as "official" fansites, where the quality and expertise of the host created pages serve as useful publicity tools - and whose addresses are reproduced on some of the artists products. I know, because I belong to one. This doesn't mean that what is reproduced there is necessarily representative of the subject, since it is the editorial decision of the site owner, but the relationship is sufficiently beneficial to be given "official" recognition. While not an unreliable source, such sites should be treated with caution when it is the only available reference. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:08, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense; I'm willing to let this be decided by people more learned in the subject than me. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:10, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

May i ad for one final time that this is certainly not a "fan site" it fully represents the band. But how can i prove this? Just becasue the site isnt registered to Shakespears Sister??? I purchased the domain and hosting in my name as i pay for the hosting on behalf of Siobhan fahey. All i ask is people just take a look at the site and look at its content, its clearly represenative of the band and all the information on the site is 100% correct and accurate. Antmarkhemingway (talk) 21:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I think what generally separates a "fan site" from an "official site" is that the former is amateur (as in "labour of love") and the latter is professional. Are you paid by Siobhan Fahey or her management, or do you do this as a fan? Your comment about paying for hosting "on behalf of" Fahey is a bit confusing. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 21:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

(ec)Is it possible to link to a statement from the artiste(s) (management) saying the website is the sole legal online representative of said artiste(s). This might be linked from the artistes record label or management website. It should also note where editorial control is exercised, and by whom. Another avenue, likely preferred by WP, would be if an independent source noted that the site was the official online representation of the subject(s). That said, I would draw your attention to thebansheesandothercreatures, whose address has recently appeared on releases by Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Creatures, and Siouxsie Sioux and is linked from their official sites and record label websites, and that of Steven Severin. Despite this "recognition" (and the accuracy of its content) it remains a fan site since the editor - who owns the site - is independent of the artists; it is one of the acknowledged "official" fansites. Under the circumstances, clarification of the status of "your" website is required before WP can describe it as being that of the subjects. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes the site is linked on the bands record label web site http://www.cargorecords.co.uk/artist/5136 Thanks, Antmarkhemingway (talk) 22:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay. What about statements to the effect that the site is legally the official website from Fahey, her management or record label, or an independent third party to that effect, and whether you are acting on behalf of or are an employee of the artist or their record label? I would draw your attention to the earlier comments also from HU12 and EyeSerene regarding your interaction with other editors and inappropriate "promoting" of the website. Even if the website is removed from the blacklist, there would need to be an improvement in your behaviour. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Note that Cargo Records is a 'distributor of independant records labels" , and not the artist's label. XinJeisan (talk) 23:36, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. but that just came with the fustration. it isnt hugely important that the site is listed here, but i just think it looks better, as most other artists have their sites linked. I will refrain from editing the Siobhan Fahey page and Shakespears sister page, and will let whoever ad it Antmarkhemingway (talk) 23:06, 4 February 2010 (UTC).

I think that might be helpful. It's edits like this that sparked my concern; it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what Misplaced Pages is for and casts doubt on your motives for editing the article. Per WP:ELNO criterion 1, we only need include external links that add content beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article. That's deliberately a very high bar; if the external site's content is already covered by the article (perhaps as a source for the content), we don't need to include it as a separate external link as it adds no extra value. Exceptions are offsite content that we can't host for whatever reason (for example, the original text of a document that's discussed in an article but that can't be quoted in full without breaching someone's copyright). Like LHvU I have some reservations about using the site as a source, but that's another discussion. EyeSerene 11:09, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

But couldn't we at least have the site listed on the URL of Siobhan Fahey's profile. Its only fair i think. Bananarama's website doesnt offer any further information thats on their[REDACTED] and their site is on here, even their youtube and myspace are listed! http://en.wikipedia.org/Bananarama I was told that youtubes and myspaces were not allowed, so thats is why i took all this a persoanl dig at the band, because it seemed Siobhan's former band was allowed their site, youtube, myspace etc. but not her, This wa my issue all along. Antmarkhemingway (talk) 15:28, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• If Antmarkhemingway withdraws from editing the article I think there should be no reason to have the site unblacklisted and placed in the appropriate place in the article. As long as it is not being used or promoted as a reliable source then I feel it may well be included. Does anybody know how to do the unblacklist thingy? LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:47, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I will certainly withdraw from editing the article. I would just be very happy to see the site in the URL section of Siobhan Fahey and Shakespears Sister's profile pages if possible as they are very reliable sources. All information on SS.co.uk is accurate and approved by Siobhan (afterall, she did write the bio), I just thought it would be fair, since, as stated above, Misplaced Pages actually has MORE information on Bananarama than their official site does itself, in my honest opinion, and their site and youtube channels are listed. Antmarkhemingway (talk) 22:22, 5 February 2010 (UTC) And I also would like to appologuise for past behaviour, and i feel like i have learnt a lot about Misplaced Pages from the experience, and appreciate it much more. Antmarkhemingway (talk) 22:26, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Have we been able to reach a decission on this matter? Please let me know Antmarkhemingway (talk) 23:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC).

Little Bill Credits

I was the original Art director of Little Bill at Nick Jr. I worked with Varnette Honeywood and Robert Skull to develop the look of the show. I worked for almost 1 year before airing. The art work on the main article was made by me. I received art director credit on only one or two original episodes. After that I was given the credit of lead designer. The artwork that appears in the info box was made by me. This can be verified by Bill Cosby and Varnette Honeywood. I would like to only add the credit of designed by Adam Osterfeld and Kirk Etienne. You can email me at hoganost@yahoo.com. The page is http://en.wikipedia.org/Little_Bill —Preceding unsigned comment added by Osterfeld (talk • contribs) 13:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't quite understand your query: if you wish to claim copyright for content hosted on Misplaced Pages, you'll need to email details and proof to info-en-c@wikimedia.org – or if you simply want to be credited in the article as having been on the crew of the show, you'll need to find and cite a reliable source confirming your involvement. Hope this helps! ╟─TreasuryTag►Lord Speaker─╢ 13:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I made this edit based on your testimony that you were the original art director. Hopefully, this will encourage someone to verify and find a citation. The problem with your edit is that "lead designer" is not a recognized field of the template which creates the infobox content. Hopefully my change will get the ball rolling in your direction. WTucker (talk) 13:49, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Copy/Paste move from Daniela to Daniela Alves Lima

A new editor has copy/pasted the article at Daniela over a redirect to Daniela Alves Lima and replaced the Daniela content with a copy of Danielle. Can an administrator please look at sorting out the moves and edit histories of these articles please. The move seems to be worthwhile just not done properly. noq (talk) 15:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Continued incivility after a request to stop

User:Parrot of Doom has been generally uncivil today and failed or even mocked requests to improve his behaviour, He started off edit warring over an unfree picture in the nick griffen article with User_talk:J_Milburn after three reverts his actions culminated in this edit with the edit summary in capitals of "CLEAR THE FUCK OFF" , I left him a polite civility note, to which he replied, "thanks but I'm not interested in civility warnings" he then again was uncivil on a public talkpage, saying on the talkpage of Griffin , "What the fuck is it with people today". I informed him again that he was being uncivil and requested him to stop, he replied that "Clearly you didn't bother reading my response to your civility warning. Get it into your head - I will use whatever language I feel is appropriate." and with the edit summary of " civility bollocks" followed up with the edit summary of "indent reply about civility bollocks" , Users should not have to suffer this level of insulting commentary, the editor in question appears to believe that he can speak derogatory to other users, this is upsetting to some editors and should not be ignored. Off2riorob (talk) 16:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Ooh, you've managed to create silly wikidrama at 3 pages now. Starved of attention today are we? --Fred the Oyster (talk) 16:22, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Not constructive. Please refactor or someone else will do so for you. → ROUX ₪ 16:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

This editor is obviously out for wikidrama and constructive or not it should be pointed out, if for no other reason than to demonstrate that there is an alternate side to his little story above. His idea of incivility is when someone else uses language that he doesn't approve of. Then to go running to ANI to 'report' it is, in my opinion, a perfect example of creating a wikidrama. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 16:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Foul language isn't acceptable, particularly if another editor requested it to be stopped. Parrot needs to cool it, less administrators give him an un-voluntary break. GoodDay (talk) 16:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

"Foul" language is not against policy, neither is it, in itself, uncivil. A request is, by definition, an invitation for a refusal. PoD, while I agree should chill a bit, has every right to use whatever language he chooses to convey whatever it is he is attempting to convey. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 16:50, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

What you (GoodDay) call "foul language" may not be what Parrot of Doom would call "foul language, or indeed what I would call "foul language". It was certainly robust language, but that's not quite the same thing where I come from. The only incivility here is too many editors attempting to impose their prissy notions of civility on others, with threats and bullying if necessary. Time it stopped. --Malleus Fatuorum 16:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The irony of Roux, one of the rudest and most abusive of editors on this site, turning up to criticise another editor for incivility is mind-boggling. --Malleus Fatuorum 16:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones Malleus. Chillum 17:07, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

And yet you're blind to your own incvility and abuse. Irony enough for everyone, it seems. So, how about you try this for a change, Malleus? Stop being a fucking dick. I know, I know, it's pretty much impossible for you. But you sit there and continually browbeat others while screaming at the top of your lungs for people to be nice to you. It would also behoove you to note that I didn't criticise anyone for incivility--I pointed out that his comment was unconstructive. But then, detail was never exactly your strong suit, now was it? Certainly not when piddly little things like 'facts' would get in the way of you getting your digs in. Grow the fuck up and start acting like an adult. Jesus. → ROUX ₪ 17:03, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

This is your only warning, Malleus and Roux; disengage from each other. This isn't about you, and every civility thread on ANI is not a reason for you to continue your feud. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Warn away, but you cannot suppress the truth that Roux is just as guilty of what he's complaining about with this edit summary. Why not address that issue instead of throwing your weight around? --Malleus Fatuorum 17:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Beg your pardon? Malleus shows up out of nowhere to attack me, and I'm being warned? Blame the victim, nice. Plus ca change.. → ROUX ₪ 17:09, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm well aware, and I'm telling you to be the better man here and leave it at that. Don't contribute to the problem. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

And let him--again--simply spout whatever crap he wants? Here's the thing that you lot don't seem to understand.. you keep telling him to stop, you keep doing nothing about it, and therefore you keep enabling and encouraging him to be ever-more-abusive to everyone on this site. → ROUX ₪ 17:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It looks like some imbalance here. malleus stops and gets blocked. Roux continues but doesn't get blocked. Looks like that's an unbalanced answer to the problem. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm trying to point out, if PoD had respected the request to cool it, at the public talkpage, he wouldn't have been reported. GoodDay (talk) 17:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

(ec) And why exactly should the request have been granted? "Do as I ask or I'll report you"? To me that rather smacks of bullying and threats. How about PoD's right to use whatever language he deems appropriate for getting his point across? This is a rather typical ploy of the 'civility police' mentality around here. Threats and wikidrama. Now that sounds far more uncivil than the release of an F-bomb. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:07, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Think about it this way, Fred. Do you think others are more or less likely to take PoD seriously and engage with him in a calm manner if he's throwing around profanity? If PoD cannot express his displeasure or disagreement with an action without resorting to "an F-bomb", it's a lack of vocabulary or imagination on his part, and it only causes discussion to decay. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

An F-bomb is not an example of lack of vocabulary. In fact many times it is the perfect word to get across certain feelings. In my veiw this makes it the perfect use of vocabulary. It is not my decision on what allows PoD to be taken seriously, primarily because I don't believe that the use of epithets devalues what a person is saying. Your mileage obviously varies. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The following article may be of some interest:

• Wales, Jimmy (December 29, 2009). "Keep a Civil Cybertongue: Rude and abusive online behavior should not be met with silence". The Wall Street Journal. Dow Jones & Company, Inc. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

Cheers, Cirt (talk) 17:09, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

A right to use foul language? there's no such thing as rights here. At Misplaced Pages, we have privillages. GoodDay (talk) 17:11, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

By those rules there is no right to the expectation that someone is going to respect one's own view of the world and what languages we expect others to use. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

One's own views on civility becomes irrelevant, when one is blocked for incivility. GoodDay (talk) 17:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

And therein lies the problem. There is not one person on Misplaced Pages that can define exactly what incivility actually is, yet strangely lots of people think they know and use their own interpretation to go ahead and block someone based purely on subjective opinion. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

• I would expect to be blocked if I spoke to editors in the same way, especially if I had been politely requested to be more civil, my request was mocked, and the behavior repeated, good faith editors are repelled by this level of incivility and should not have to be addressed in this manner. Off2riorob (talk) 17:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Your expectations have no greater sway than PoD's right to use language he deems appropriate. Also your interpretation of "uncivil" holds no greater sway than his. Who are you to decide what is or isn't uncivil? Good faith editors are also repelled by the immature, run to mummy approach that is frequently used by the final arbiters of what should be civil and what shouldn't be. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Nobody has a right on Misplaced Pages, we've privillages. IMHO, if one's want to spourt off on his/her pesonal page? fine. But, not on public pages, when requested not to. GoodDay (talk) 17:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

David, you should leave block notices on their pages. I know they're aware, but in the interest of the probable unblock requests... Tan | 39 17:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I left them in other tabs and forgot to save. Appended, thanks for the reminder. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Here you go on about lack of rights again. That lack of right also applies to peoples' expectancy of what they can request and their right to have that request complied with. It is after all a request and not an instruction. The bedrock of WP is that it isn't censored. You cannot have a non-censored encyclopaedia whilst simultaneously censoring its editors behind the scenes. But back to the point, the use of off-colour language is not in and of itself uncivil. Off2riorob has no right or "privilege" to decide that it is all on his own. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It's all up to the community, in the end (as we're a collaborative project). GoodDay (talk) 17:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

"The bedrock of WP is that it's uncensored"? Strong statement; it's a facet of the project but I'd hardly call it the bedrock. Tan | 39 17:50, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, do we not -censure- people from making threats? legal, physical etc etc (which hasn't been the case here). GoodDay (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

in any case, it's the articles that are not censored DGG ( talk ) 17:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Derailing dispute resolution

I would ask that an uninvolved admin ask User:SandyGeorgia to desist from derailing dispute resolution. If it were the first time this had happened, I wouldn't bring it to ANI, but it is clearly a pattern.

This discussion relates to WP:RSN#Venezuelanalysis, which had grown to a very large size (6 subsection breaks), not least due to Sandy and another editor constantly bringing up accusations of bad faith, as well as unsourced and irrelevant claims. In an attempt to extricate the discussion from the mire it had got into (driving away external input there had initially been, and clearly not reaching a conclusion) I created a new section, WP:RSN#Venezuelanalysis Reboot, and notified all editors involved with the old thread. I created a new section rather than a new subsection to make it more likely that new editors might comment.

Sandy's response was to effectively accuse me of forum shopping (on the same forum - and despite clearly explained rationale for starting a new section) ("This looks like "ask the other parent" to an issue that was already well debated...") and to claim that "most people are probably tired of this discussion and considered it settled." Nothing was settled - not least because Sandy had ignored the previous conclusion offered in the old thread apart from misrepresenting my views (another example of derailing).

Sandy has consistently accused me of bad faith, and it appears that her attempt to reject Venezuelanalysis as a reliable source - including derailing the RSN dispute resolution mechanism - is both politically and personally motivated. Her comments here suggest that she thinks Misplaced Pages should counter the alleged press freedom issues in Venezuela by excluding a source widely considered reliable - as some sort of political counter-balance. (This has the merit at least of being the closest Sandy has come to expressing her motivation on this issue.) Her comments here suggest a personal motivation as well: "We need to put enough restrictions on the use of this partisan website, with ties to Chavez, to stop Rd232 from writing entire articles sourced to it." I have argued consistently that VA should be just one of the mix of sources used, and indeed I have used a wide variety of sources. That I've used VA more than if I were being paid to be sole author of an encyclopedia article is evidence of precisely nothing; nor is the solution to any overuse of it to ban it, it is to add other sources. Rd232 17:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

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