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A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Misplaced Pages's content policies, particularly neutral point of view. Please discuss further on the talk page. (Learn how and when to remove this message)

Is there any relation to the European CEPR?

People seeing references to the 'CEPR' will undoubtedly often be confused between the two different organizations in London and Washington. Since the London-based organization was founded more than 15 years before the Washington-based organization, and was already widely known at that time (having published over 2000 discussion papers, among other things), many people are likely to assume there is some relation between the organizations. I'm unaware of any relation, but it would be helpful if someone could clarify whether there is one. If there is no relation, it would be helpful if someone knowledgeable could explain how it happened that a second organization was founded with the same acronym and almost exactly the same name. --Rinconsoleao (talk) 08:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Left?

Why are the terms 'liberal' and 'progressive' used to describe this organization? This is a leftist think tank; why doesn't the article clearly state this?

Tyrerj (talk) 02:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Chavez

Reference from David Horowitz Freedom Center that links Center for Economic and Policy Research with Chavez keeps getting removed. WP:NPOV requires that all views should be presented, and just those favorable ones. -- Vision Thing -- 17:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Chavez

I removed the reference from the David Horowitz Freedom Center that links the CEPR with Chavez because the CEPR has also been critical of Chavez. The assertion that it is a supporter and apologist for the Chavez administration is unfounded. Moreover, this insertion violates Misplaced Pages's neutrality policy and constitutes POV. I'm sure Mr. Horowitz has many points of view on many progressive think tanks. But they have no place in a purely descriptive article on the CEPR. Flavio americo (talk) 20:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Please read Misplaced Pages policy on verifiability which states that "The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth." It is irrelevant for us whether the claim that CEPR is apologist for the Chavez administration is unfounded or not. What is important is that someone notable has stated that. -- Vision Thing -- 21:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, let's see, as Crmjones pointed out, if this will survive mediation. (I will not attempt to correct the inclusion anymore--since it seems you are part of the inner circle there). Be that as it may, all I am saying is that Mr. Horowitz has very strong opinions about avowedly progressive think tanks; in fact, he actively militates against them. I don't think that is relevant to a purely descriptive entry. It violates Misplaced Pages's neutrality and prohibition against POV. Flavio americo (talk) 22:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Removal of it violates neutrality because Misplaced Pages requires that all relevant view points should be included in the articles. -- Vision Thing -- 17:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Vision Thing: I wasn't the one who removed it last, but may I suggest something: if you are hell bent on including that ridiculously irrelevant citation from a known hydrophobic source, why don't you put it under a heading like "Criticism" and document criticism from both sides of the aisle, and not just the right-wing, distempered site? By the way, do you work for Horowitz's Freedom Center, for if so, this would constitute a conflict of interest. Flavio americo (talk) 08:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

No, I don't work for Horowitz's Freedom Center. I think that Criticisms sections should be avoided where possible. If you have some counter-arguments about CEPR stance towards Chavez I encourage you to include them. Of course, if you will do it in accordance with Misplaced Pages rules. -- Vision Thing -- 10:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Vision Thing: I have nothing to do with Irkawa (i.e., I am not a sock puppet: I have only one account granted to me by "Can't Sleep Clown Will Eat Me" because of difficulties in creating an account from my I.P. address , which is apparently flagged by Misplaced Pages. So I had to ask permission to create an account from this moderator who then emailed me a password. So I am not at liberty to create accounts for myself in the English Misplaced Pages). Flavio americo (talk) 17:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Chavez, continued

It seems to me that recent edits linking CEPR to Chavez have been more neutral than the obvious POV issues discussed above. Mentioning that CEPR representatives have sometimes defended the Chavez regime is perfectly appropriate, unless the edit is done in a way that implies it is CEPR's main activity (which is clearly not the case, as far as I can tell). To avoid implying that the Chavez regime is the main focus or a principal focus of CEPR, it would be more appropriate to take this material out of the introduction. It could be in a section called "Advocacy" that could document a variety of CEPR positions. Or if the point is that some people have criticized CEPR for defending Chavez, it could be in a section called "Criticism". --Rinconsoleao (talk) 17:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

CEPR is not an advocacy organization. With regards to Hugo Chávez and Venezuela, or any other president, CEPR does not "defend" presidents or governments. CEPR has published economic analyses of various Latin Amerian countries, including Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Bolivia, Peru, Mexico and others. These analyses cannot be considered a "defense" of any president or government; CEPR does not take political positions in this way.

The "advocacy" section was added by a right-wing blogger who has a political grudge against CEPR and has stalked the organization and its staff for years. It is not an attempt to provide objective information about the organization, but rather an attempt to misrepresent the organization in order to discredit it. Scalabrineformvp (talk) 20:46, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Just to be clear, the "advocacy" section was NOT added by a right-wing blogger. I added it, and I am not a blogger, and I have never 'stalked CEPR', and my political views are irrelevant because I try to follow Misplaced Pages's NPOV policy strictly. For weeks or months there was an edit war on this page, in which people who appeared very critical of CEPR repeatedly inserted statements claiming that CEPR supported Chavez, right in the introduction of the article, either without citations or with citations from nonreliable sources like blogs. These comments were repeatedly reverted by other editors, including me (check the edit history here and you will see). Finally, someone inserted text stating that CEPR staff had sometimes defended Hugo Chavez' policies, which as far as I could tell was an objective and neutrally-worded statement of fact, after I read the Weisbrot testimony. (I was unable to read the other citations because they didnt get past my firewall.) The statement seemed out of context, since defending the Venezuelan government is clearly not the main activity of CEPR. So, as I mentioned above in my comment from 9 Feb., I created an "advocacy" section where we could all add statements about the types of public policy positions that have been supported by CEPR. It seemed more appropriate to call it "advocacy" instead of "criticism", because the claim that CEPR staff have sometimes defended Hugo Chavez' government is not a criticism, since the claim makes no value judgment. If someone had instead documented criticism of CEPR, I would have titled the section otherwise.

Anyway, what I was trying to suggest is that editors could add a variety of evidence about the types of policy positions CEPR has taken. Since I don't claim to be an expert on CEPR's positions, I didn't add any evidence about that myself, other than the point that had already been made about Venezuela. By the way, it's hard for me to understand the claim that CEPR is not an 'advocacy' organization. If I recall correctly, it explicitly describes itself as a 'progressive' organization, and seeks to present analysis of policy alternatives that may be underrepresented in U.S. debates. If that's not advocacy, what is? I thought that by adding the "advocacy" section, readers might find some broader perspective about what CEPR advocates, thus removing any suggestion that Venezuela is central to (or even representative of) its point of view. --Rinconsoleao (talk) 08:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I must agree that the sources provided do not support that the CEPR as institution has advocated for HC. In fact, the sources don't support that several "staff members" of CEPR have advocated for him; I only read references to Weisbrot. Actually, one of the references does not mention CEPR at all; in the other two, it is mentioned to help identify Weisbrot but I don't read that he is speaking on behalf of CEPR. Therefore, I think this section should be deleted from the article. JRSP (talk) 00:38, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the material in this section should be removed. I thought initially that it could be moved to the Mark Weisbrot article but now I see several problems with the references provided. The US Senate hearing is primary material so we would need a secondary source to assess its notability and to support any interpratation of this testimony as "advocacy". The other two sources just reflect the connection of Weisbrot to Bank of the South, something that is already covered in his article. On the other side, I think that the description of CERN as "a 'progressive' organization, and seeks to present analysis of policy alternatives that may be underrepresented in U.S. debates" could be suitable for this section if properly sourced. JRSP (talk) 14:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that the recent edits made to the advocacy section portray a much more accurate picture of both CEPR's work and also of Mark Weisbrot's writing. I can also enter some references if that would make everyone more agreeable. Scalabrineformvp (talk) 23:02, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, please... the advocacy section now urgently needs references. --Rinconsoleao (talk) 13:36, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Sources

The article is relying too much on self-published material. According to WP:SELFPUB, it is fine to use CEPR material to describe their own activities but the article would be much better if mostly based on material from independent reliable secondary sources. JRSP (talk) 15:13, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Socks on CEPR articles

Please see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Scalabrineformvp. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:31, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Contentious material moved from article

According to a 2004 National Review article, the Venezuela Information Office (VIO)—a lobbying agency whose goal is to improve the perception of Venezuela in the US—"coordinates a media response team" that includes "representatives from the Center for Economic Policy and Research". CEPR representatives signed a letter to the editor of the Center for Public Integrity, saying that their statements about the VIO were "highly misleading".

This constitutes an insinuation that CEPR (and is part of a campaign of similar insinuations against related living persons - cf Talk:Mark Weisbrot) has connections with the Venezuela government via the Venezuela Information Office. This is based on a poor source of debatable relevance (National Review, making merely the vague and unsourced claim that VIO "coordinates a media response team" that includes "representatives from the Center for Economic Policy and Research") and a Center for Public Integrity report which mentions neither CEPR nor Weisbrot. But the Center for Public Integrity did feel the need to publish a response from a number of people, including Weisbrot, in response to the various allegations of people being associated with VIO. Unbelievably, Sandy summarises this as the letter "saying that their statements about the VIO were "highly misleading"." The letter is not about the VIO, it is about the people smeared by supposed connections to VIO - and Sandy seeks to use this to smear Weisbrot and CEPR, neither of whom are mentioned in the original piece! This contentious, misrepresented, badly sourced and WP:SYNTHy material has no place in this article. Rd232 14:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Rd232, I reviewed the passage and the sources used. They seem honestly represented, hence your removal of the text is troubling. The National Review is certainly not a "poor source"; we don't require independent, reliable sources to source their own claims in articles. Regarding the letter, it does claim the Center for Public Integrity's statements were "highly misleading". That's the topic sentence of the letter. How can you say it's unbelievable to summarize the letter that way? I'm merely providing an independent review. I see nothing problematic about the text—I wouldn't even blink at it were it to read it under casual circumstances. I urge you to replace it. --Andy Walsh (talk) 16:00, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Well thank you for your input. If necessary we can go to RSN for discussion of National Review as a reliable source for contentious claims. But I'm surprised that you do not see any problematic difference between statements about the VIO and statements about people accused of being linked to VIO. To spell it out: the former looks like defending the VIO - that is the intentional misrepresentation being done. The latter is what actually happened - and read again what the letter actually says. It is not defending an agent of a foreign government; it is defending people accused of links to a foreign government. slight difference. It is also worth quoting from the letter re the value of the article as a source: "It is also worth noting that Miriam Kornblith, who is identified as the "Lead Social Scientist" responsible for your "Global Integrity" report on Venezuela is part of the Venezuelan opposition. Miriam Kornblith currently represents the opposition on the National Electoral Council (CNE). She is also listed (see NED Grant No. 2003-548.0, page 5) as an advisor to Súmate, a group that led the signature drive to recall Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez." In prior discussion I provided additional sourcing verifying Kornblith's involvement, if it matters. Rd232 16:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Mm, just read the original letter again, and noticed it does actually quote Weisbrot - about a letter which was not to do with VIO. This doesn't really help the case for inclusion; the letter incident mentioned (in which no CEPR involvement is specified, and which is anyway accepted as having no VIO connection) would be clearly WP:UNDUE, as indeed the whole thing is. It remains the case that both the National Review article and the Venezuelan-opposition sourced CPI article were attempting to create or play up connections between VIO and some US people. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not questionable sources, misrepresentation (as noted above) and insinuation. Rd232 16:46, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll have to do some thinking before I reply. It's difficult to follow your arguments because you integrate some statements that are your opinion with statements you obtained from sources. It'll take me a while to unravel this. --Andy Walsh (talk) 16:48, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

"According to the David Horowitz Freedom Center, CEPR is a supporter and apologist for Hugo Chavez. - I don't think so. Rd232 17:54, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

1. Forero, Juan (September 30, 2004). "Venezuela's government seeks to show that its oil riches are well spent". The New York Times. Retrieved January 24, 2010.
2. Miller, John J (December 27, 2004). "Friends of Hugo: Venezuela's Castroite boss has all the usual U.S. supporters". National Review. Retrieved January 24, 2010. {{cite web}}: Text "publisher-findarticles.com" ignored (help)
3. Bogardus, Kevin (September 22, 2004). "Venezuela Head Polishes Image With Oil Dollars". Center for Public Integrity. Retrieved January 24, 2010. Letter to the editor in response.
4. "Center for Economic and Policy Research". David Horowitz Freedom Center. Retrieved 16 February 2010.

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