Revision as of 07:49, 11 January 2006

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When you start a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page. Pinging is not enough.

You may use {{subst:AN-notice}} ~~~~ to do so.

Sections inactive for over seven days are archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.(archives, search)

Tasks

The following backlogs require the attention of one or more editors.
Transwiki to Wikibooks and Wiktionary

NowCommons, Requested moves, Vandalism in progress, AfD cleanup, Copyright Problems and Requests for page protection

General

User:Namr.

Looks like a freeper has decided to make him/herself known, and a nusiance. The contributions are less than promising Please keep an eye out.--Tznkai 08:07, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

You might want to add Siegenthaler2 (talk · contribs) to your Freeper Watch list. Yes, it's early, but he's showing potential. --Calton | Talk 14:23, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Calton, I suggest you back down lets give him a chance to apologize. If he doesn't, I'll ask an admin to ban him for making legal threats.--Tznkai 18:51, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't back down from thugs, bullies, and fanatics -- unless they're heavily armed thugs, bullies, and fanatics -- and I'm not about to start. --Calton | Talk 09:32, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I meant you had no reason to get further involved, as he was about to dig himself into a hole anyway, and give him the thirty seconds he deserves to jump out and apologize.--Tznkai 17:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Just a general reminder to classify the Freeper's as newbiews with strong positions, not conservative vandals. The ones who are willing to jump through the same hoops the rest of us got here (following policy) deserve to stay.

The vandals, lets go ahead and slap em down, but keep it clear that its their violations of civility conduct, not because we disagree (if we do) with their opinions. (The chinese word for crisis, contains the symbol for opportunity after all)--Tznkai 18:29, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

On the other hand, Siegenthaler2 would be a violation of the username policy as it assumes the name of a well-known figure in the news (unless it's actually Siegenthaler). TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Someone beat you too it.--Tznkai 19:16, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

• Libsmasher (talk · contribs) Seems we have another--172.172.197.68 18:22, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

This one is old, and probably not a Freeper--Tznkai 18:30, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

North Carolina vandal

After a quiet period, this extremely persistent vandal ("Remington and the Rattlesnakes", "Regara", Luxembourg, etc etc etc) has become active again and completely unmanageable. He mechanically creates dozens of socks one after another, switches to a different article whenever his current target is sprotected, and so forth.

The only solution is a long-term block of the 63.19.128.0/17 address range, which I have now applied. Unfortunately, there is at least one other user, User:ElAmericano who is affected by this.

The only other possible solution is to contact his ISP and get them to do something.

The published contact information for abuse reports for this IP range is:

Phone: +1-800-900-0241

E-mail: abuse-mail@mci.com

The IP and timestamp information we can provide to them is:

IP address: 63.19.219.212

Timestamp: 19:48 EST (United States Eastern Standard Time), 31 December 2005

IP address: 63.19.143.3

Timestamp: 19:43 EST (United States Eastern Standard Time), 31 December 2005

Note this is the same person, and these are just the latest two of thousands of other examples over many months.

This person simply will not quit. I had a conversation with him back in September in which he seemingly promised to stop (and in fact he did go quiet for a while), but obviously it hasn't worked.

Meanwhile, our fundraising proudly boasts that we are now a "top 30" website, but what use is this? If all this means is an ever-increasing server bill, then it's simply a liability. Apparently it doesn't translate into any kind of clout when it comes to dealing with ISPs and getting them to rein in their problem users. If frequent range blocks are the only answer, then so be it.

-- Curps 23:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, blocking is a no no if we lose even one good editor as a result of an IP ban. If not policy, thats certainly my advice--Tznkai 23:25, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Please describe another way of dealing with this vandal. Be specific. And while you're at it, please pick up the phone and call the abuse contact number and give them the two pieces of IP+timestamp information (there are literally hundreds if not thousands of other examples, but these two should be enough for them to identify the person). -- Curps 23:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Curps, look at your talk page! Something unexpected has happened.... --69.57.177.138 01:31, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

-- User:G4sxe Curps has blocked me and I do not know why. I cannot find any way to email him. G4sxe 16:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)G4sxe

I see no block of your username. If it's for the North Carolina vandal range, it's now unblocked (Did you contact the ISP abuse number and e-mail listed above? They should listen to their own customer). -- Curps 16:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I am new to Misplaced Pages, as you probably know. I do not even know what an ISP number is. Anyway, if Iam not blocked then fine. Thanks for your reply.G4sxe 16:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)G4sxe

-- User:G4sxe I am still blocked. It says that my IP address is 195.93.21.72 and that I should include this along with my user name, in any queries. It says you can email Curps, but I can not find a way to do this. G4sxe 17:12, 6 January 2006 (UTC)g4sxe It also says that myIP address has been recently used by Calcfc77 who is bocked for vandalism. Perhaps that is the problem?G4sxe 17:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)G4sxe

That's an AOL IP address, it has nothing to do with the North Carolina vandal (this section). When a registered username is blocked, the underlying IP address is autoblocked. The blocking admin has no way of knowing what that IP address or ISP is, for privacy reasons... we have no way of knowing if a registered username like User:Calcfc77 is an AOL address or not, and it shouldn't make a difference anyway. Indefinite autoblocking of underlying AOL IP addresses is a misfeature of the Mediawiki software... you can try complaining to the developers, but there's nothing that admins can do about it (and there's no way for us to even know about it). -- Curps 17:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I am with AOL. I will have to accept that I will be blocked from time to time. Sorry for barging into the North Carolina thing, but there was no other way I could find you. Thanks for your help. Regards. G4sxe 17:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)G4sxe

We need some way to recognize and mark "users in good standing" who would not be affected by blocks of underlying IPs (this would require a software change). However, this would need to be done manually, not automatically by mere passage of time... that would be a bit labor intensive to be sure, but everything else here is labor intensive (RC patrol, replying to people who get hit by collateral damage). Just like bureaucrats can set a flag to make a user an admin, admins should have the ability to set a flag to make a registered user a "user in good standing" who would not be affected by underlying IP autoblocks.

Failing that, the Mediawiki software should internally recognize when an underlying IP address is an AOL address and adjust the autoblock length accordingly. Only the software can do that, admins can't and as mentioned earlier have no way of even knowing. -- Curps 17:53, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

This is something I've wanted for a long time- the ability to log into an account even when your IP is banned. I would greatly like to edit through Tor or a similar anonymizing network, but I can't even so much as log in and edit, which seems rather pointless and unfair. --maru (talk) Contribs 18:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Allow me to plug bugzilla:3706, which would do exactly what you just asked for (to be able to mark some users as exempt from IP blocks). --cesarb 19:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I have just looked at the list of currently blocked IP addresses and User names. It says that at 16.02 Curps blocked Calcfc77 (infinite).

Does that mean that I will never be able to edit again. I cannot even edit my own user page. So how come I can edit this page?G4sxe 19:14, 6 January 2006 (UTC)G4sxe

AOL's proxies are weird. They use different IP addresses when you are editing different pages. If you post here the information on the message that shows when you get a blocked error (we need at least the IP address and the complete block reason), we can unblock the IP address. --cesarb 20:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

List of Netflix distribution centers

List of Netflix distribution centers has been up for deletion since the 23rd (so I guess the voting should be ended anyway) but thanks to a few links from Netflix fan sites, the page has experienced an influx of un-logged in users and brand new accounts that are voting 'Do Not Delete' as per instructions from the sites. I'm not sure if there's a consensus to delete because of all the invalid votes. Is there any precident for semi-protecting an AfD? If this gets renominated, I think it could use it.. -Vastango 08:13, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I have closed the debate as a no consensus keep.--Sean|Black 08:23, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Wait a sec? So a bunch of sockpuppets can get articles closed as no consensus-keep now? FCYTravis 21:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I count 15 delete votes and 6 keep votes. If I don't get an objection, I'm going to delete the article. Sockpuppets do not equal consensus. FCYTravis 21:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

so wait, you're counting 6 keep votes? I see 8 by people with actual handles and edit histories, plus at least two by IPs with edit histories. I'm fully aware that sock/new IP votes aren't regarded as highly as established Wikipedian votes, but certainly we're not counting 15/borderline 10 as a clear consensus for deletion. At the very most, the second AfD should have been allowed to run its course, but certainly this is more than a little hasty in your counting. --badlydrawnjeff 03:40, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me? Please don't do that: Those 6 keep votes are borderline, I'll admit, but it's enough- if you want it deleted, feel free to re-nominate it and I won't go comment, but please don't just go over my head like that.--Sean|Black 21:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

You're letting sockpuppets win the vote, and that's bad for Misplaced Pages. If you're going to close deletion debates full of meatpuppetry, don't just look at a bunch of meatpuppet DO NOT DELETES obviously farmed in from a forum and go "oh there must be no consensus." Take the time to count real Wikipedians. 15 to 6 is not no-consensus, that's a delete. It's not "going over your head," it's complying with deletion policy and being WP:BOLD. FCYTravis 21:44, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

If only there were some method of reviewing contested AFD closures... Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 22:39, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

WP:NOT a bureaucracy and I refuse to make this process any more stupidly lengthy than it has to be. FCYTravis 22:54, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

This is a ridiculous close. Take it to DRV if you really must, but there is clear provision there for the closing admin to simply correct their mistake. -Splash 22:43, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I am beginning to believe that it is soon going to be impossible to delete any list at all, however obviously unencyclopaedic. Look at list of SWIFT codes - there are over 17,000 potential entries to that list, of which just over 300 are listed - which is rather less than my quick count of the number that changed in the December update published on the BIC website. There is an authoritative online lookup tool linked in SWIFT code, and people still said "keep, useful list" for this randomly selected list of under 2% of codes, with absolutely no guarantee of accuracy. I have not the words. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 22:45, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, in my view, the way it is set up now is that what the consensus (and rather if there is not a consensus to delete) of people deem useful stays. Note the emphasis on useful - as it may not be one's definition of encyclopedic - of course, everyone's definition of the word seems slightly different. That's why I'm slightly surprised List of Netflix distribution centers was actually deleted (or should have been, but that's another story). WhiteNight 23:57, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

FYI, I renominated it. Hopefully the bloggers won't link to the new discussion now. -Vastango 01:02, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Whatever. I wish people would leave a message on my talk page if you disagreed, instead of just posting that it's "ridiculous" here. I don't care, do whatever you want. It doesn't matter to me.--Sean|Black 00:52, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

By the way, it's deleted, because I was wrong the first time. I still would have appreciated a message on my talk page instead of all this, but the matter is settled.--Sean|Black 01:59, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

For the record, although I linked to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Netflix distribution centers, I did NOT give instructions how to vote. If you check, you'll see that I registered with Misplaced Pages and voted to delete, so I feel mischaracterized by your comments regarding "sockpuppets." Please be nice by avoiding ad hominem attacks in future discussions, in keeping with Don't Bite the Newbies. RosieCotton 15:37, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Image:Stop hand.png looks damaged

Can someone restore the transparent version of this image? It seems to have damaged the following templates:

• {{NPOV}}

• {{POV-check}}

• {{Totallydisputed}}

Can someone look into this for me?

(Note: These templates are not directed at this article! They are examples!!) --Sunfazer 14:24, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

It looks fine to me. They're all using the new SVG image at Image:Stop hand.svg. —Locke Cole • t • c 14:28, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Locke, the PNG version looked better on them - when it was the transparent version. --Sunfazer 14:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

It may be your web browser is the problem: I suspect Misplaced Pages is converting the SVG into a 24-bit transparent PNG. On Internet Explorer, 24-bit transparent PNG's aren't fully supported, and are usually drawn with a neutral background (instead of being blended correctly). I'd suggest getting Mozilla Firefox, or Internet Explorer 7 when it's released (if it's released for pre-Vista users, anyways). —Locke Cole • t • c 14:38, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

The "IE is broken, get Firefox" defense is correct in theory-- but when 85% of the internet is using IE, it's just not practical. Coffee 19:11, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

A good way to deal with it would be to add a new "background" parameter to the image transclusion syntax. If it's present, create a non-transparent image with that color as the background; if it's not present, create a transparent image as is currently done. --cesarb 21:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

If that is the case, then all of the templates that use the stophand need to be the same color, so nothing funky will happen when I upload the new copy. But feel free to revert the changes I have done to the image. Zach 23:33, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

No, the idea is to specify the background when including the image, for instance ]. --cesarb 00:05, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I did not know about that trick at all. Thanks for telling me. Zach 09:00, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

There is a simple hack to fix PNG transparency in IE:

<public:component lightWeight="true">
<public:attach event="onpropertychange" onevent="propertyChanged()" />
<public:attach event="onbeforeprint" onevent="beforePrint()" for="window"/>
<public:attach event="onafterprint" onevent="afterPrint()" for="window"/>
<script>
/*
 * PNG Behavior
 *
 * This script was created by Erik Arvidsson (http://webfx.eae.net/contact.html#erik)
 * for WebFX (http://webfx.eae.net)
 * Copyright 2002-2004
 *
 * For usage see license at http://webfx.eae.net/license.html
 *
 * Version: 1.02
 * Created: 2001-??-??	First working version
 * Updated: 2002-03-28	Fixed issue when starting with a non png image and
 *                      switching between non png images
 *          2003-01-06	Fixed RegExp to correctly work with IE 5.0x
 *          2004-05-09  When printing revert to original
 *
 */
var supported = /MSIE ((5\.5)|)/.test(navigator.userAgent) &&
				navigator.platform == "Win32";
var realSrc;
var blankSrc = "IMAGES/blank.gif";
var isPrinting = false;
if (supported) fixImage();
function propertyChanged() {
	if (!supported || isPrinting) return;
	var pName = event.propertyName;
	if (pName != "src") return;
	// if not set to blank
	if (!new RegExp(blankSrc).test(src))
		fixImage();
};
function fixImage() {
	// get src
	var src = element.src;
	// check for real change
	if (src == realSrc && /\.png$/i.test(src)) {
		element.src = blankSrc;
		return;
	}
	if ( ! new RegExp(blankSrc).test(src)) {
		// backup old src
		realSrc = src;
	}
	// test for png
	if (/\.png$/i.test(realSrc)) {
		// set blank image
		element.src = blankSrc;
		// set filter
		element.runtimeStyle.filter = "progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft." +
					"AlphaImageLoader(src='" + src + "',sizingMethod='scale')";
	}
	else {
		// remove filter
		element.runtimeStyle.filter = "";
	}
}
function beforePrint() {
	isPrinting = true;
	element.src = realSrc;
	element.runtimeStyle.filter = "";
	realSrc = null;
}
function afterPrint() {
	isPrinting = false;
	fixImage();
}
</script>
</public:component>

Thought i'd bring this to your attention.  ALKIVAR™ 15:53, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Anon autoblocked

While in the CVU's IRC channel, a user inserted a link to an anon user's talk page User talk:68.48.82.180 who is claiming to be autoblocked, here is the block log for this IP. I went back through the block logs and I can not find where this IP is blocked. Any help will be most welcome. KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 01:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

User's IP addresses, for privacy, are not displayed in the block log when they are autoblocked. Looking in Special:Ipblocklist, I found this entry: "00:04, January 4, 2006, Pathoschild blocked #76283 (expires 00:04, January 5, 2006) (Unblock) (Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "Vipsta". The reason given for Vipsta's block is: "vandalism-only account".)", and unblocked it. Hopefully this will clear it up. — Knowledge Seeker দ 02:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the help Knowledge Seeker! I should tell him that we are not related though. lol :-D KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 02:13, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Deleting (not merely blanking) one's own user page

As some of you may already know Mikkalai appears to have quit Misplaced Pages, mostly related to some conflicts (most of which he seems not to want to characterize as conflicts) with several Romanian contributors. It is not clear yet whether his departure is permanent.

On his "way out the door" he deleted the entire history of his user page. For the moment, in this case, I think it is best left that way: from remarks he's made on his talk page, I think that leaving things lie for a while is the most likely course for him to possibly come back. However, this got me wondering: in general, is it acceptable for an admin to remove the history of their user page? I'm a little concerned about the precedent; especially if he does come back, I would hope that would be restored. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I personally support deleting userpages, since it's a helpful sign on comments when the name comes in as a redlink that something has changed in the user's status. I oppose deleting talk pages. Phil Sandifer 04:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

What Phil said. Admins can delete others' talk pages, but only on request, and only if they judge there's nothing potentially relevant/needed there. An admin probably isn't in a position to make that judgement about his/her own talk page, but could make the request of another admin with {{d}}. -- SCZenz 04:59, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree; I think that it is acceptable for an administrator to delete his own user page, as he should be the only substantial contributor to it. Talk pages may be blanked but should not be deleted; neither by the administrator nor by a colleague, in my opinion, unless some consensus to make an exception is reached here (or some similar process). — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:07, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Talk pages contain valuable information and important discussions. I suppose one could take it to WP:MFD if they feel strongly, however.--Sean|Black 05:10, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Knowledge Seeker here. User pages aren't a big deal; talk pages are. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 05:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

A regular user can't delete their user page/talk page to show that they are pissed, admins shouldn't do it either. And slapping a {{d}} on it would only be ok if no one else had ever edited that page. Blanking should be good enough. - brenneman 05:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Obviously there are only certain users who are respected and trusted enough byt the community to be able to delete their own user pages! :-) Dmcdevit·t 05:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

See WP:CSD#User pages.--Sean|Black 05:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

• I'd actually looked at that, but the use of "subpage" threw me and I hadn't hovered over it to see it didn't actually refer to a subpage. That words (but not the link) appear to apply to User:Foo/Some other thing but not to User:Foo. In any event, the over-arching "General" would seem to override this little section, no? - brenneman 05:31, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
  • It says that the main userpage can be deleted, too. And why would the general section override it?--Sean|Black 05:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, I think it's a childish attention-grabber. But there's no sense in making a rule against it. Mikkalai is not, by the way, a precedent. Off the top of my head, RickK did it I believe, as well as Mav, Seth Ilys, and (yesterday even) Snowspinner, and plenty more I'm sure. Dmcdevit·t 05:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Grunt, Essjay (although both are back) and several others as well.--Sean|Black 05:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Years ago a user did it and was de-adminned for it. Deleting talk pages is a big no no in my view. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 09:10, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Moving a talk page can have almost the same effect as deleting it. Doing so turns the unarchived pagelink red again, effectively clears the apparent edit history, and makes the moved talk page hard to find unless it's clearly linked somewhere. Yet I believe that moving talk pages to archive them is an accepted practice. -Will Beback 18:45, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, since moving creates a redirect, it's not that big of a problem. If one deletes the redirect, then you can still find it in the move log or, if you're an admin, looking at the page's history/revisions in Special:Undelete. Blackcap (talk) 19:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but those are not steps that one would ordinarily engage in when placing a warning on a user talk page. Unless someone already knew that there was a previous talk page there'd be no reason to suspect that it had been moved. -Will Beback 00:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, that's true. When I'm placing warnings (i.e. {{test}}, {{test2}}, {{test3}}, etc.) on a userpage, I almost always check the history to see if anything funny's been happening. Usually it's nothing, but occasionally old messages will have been messed with or removed entirely. No real way around that one, sadly (I don't think, anyway). Blackcap (talk) 15:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:User browser:Firefox

Can an admin please lock this page, I do not care what version it is. I am sick of the ongoing revert war and moves creating triple/quadruple redirects etc. --Cool Cat 11:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Protected until the lame edit war is resolved on talk. --Doc 16:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Request to remove threatening use of personal info from page history

User:Bumpusmills1 is a new user whom I have worked with in an attempt to teach him Misplaced Pages guidelines, manners, and so on. To his credit he is trying to learn. Unfortunately, he was a bit abrasive at first and stirred up some vandals and such, including anonymous editors User:68.45.146.191, User:199.216.98.66 and User:216.13.219.229 who placed User:Bumpusmills1's personal contact info on User:Bumpusmills1's user page and threatened him. (Examples of these threats are and , although there are more examples in the history.) It appears these anonymous users are sock puppets.

To cut to the chase, User:Bumpusmills1 e-mailed me and asked me to remove this info b/c he fears for his safety and the safety of his family. As a temporary measure I deleted his user page then recreating it, thus making the history with the contact info only available to admins. I have also blocked thse anonymous users for one month because of this threat. Is there a way to remove the deleted history pages with User:Bumpusmills1's personal information on it so no one can view it? Also, can anyone help me figure out if these anonymous users are a Misplaced Pages editor (which is highly likely) and identify them? Thanks. --Alabamaboy 16:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Only a developer can completely wipe an edit, and they don't normally do so. -Splash 16:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Regarding checking the users to see whether they are a wikipedia editor, you can ask any member in the Arbcom committee for them to do a checkuser with the ip. --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 16:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that's not true. An admin can delete the entire article, then restore only selected edits, thus keeping the contested edits out of the history. But if there are a lot of edits, a very labor-intensive operation. User:Zoe| 22:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I think what Splash means is that only a dev can completely remove an edit, i.e. wipe it from the database, gone from both the eyes of regular editors and sysops, which is true. Blackcap (talk) 15:31, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm good for undeleting only Bumpusmills1's contributions to his user page (prolly easiest to avoid the personal info edits), as there is precedent for that...but per Splash and you, an admin could still go and look at the unrecovered edit summaries. So treat this note as a vote towards consensus for restoring the page without the bad edits in the history if you want to do that. --Syrthiss 17:03, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone. I'll probably just do as Syrthiss says. Best,--Alabamaboy 17:07, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Return of persistent anon vandal

User:69.12.152.174 (=User:scharf.steven, or Steven M Scharf, or SMS) has no edit history other than reversion to a POV version of Bicycle lighting by a former small-scale manufacturer of rechargeable lights who styles himself "one of Earth's leading experts on bicycle lighting". Note timing of vandalism on the article and timing of this Usenet post to a thread in which Scharf is active: .

A 48-hour block was put in place last time, I believe this is a static IP and it's certainly got no other edit history, so what are the chances of a permanent block as damage-limitation? Last time the vandal carried of for a week or more, using various dynamic IPs as well, which I and others will have to watch for and revert, but this one at least should be fixable. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 20:52, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Thinking about it, semi-protection would also work. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 21:09, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Is this OK?

http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Sunfazer - on my userpage I have created forks which are linked from my userpage for creation of template designs?

Is this allowed within userspace on Misplaced Pages? --Sunfazer 22:03, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't see what the problem could be. Generally, if no one complains, it's OK, and if it's helping you write the encyclopedia, it's a good idea. --Phroziac _. o º 22:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I created http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:User:Sunfazer/FictitiousUsers_for_testing_templates - is that permitted in userspace? --Sunfazer 23:49, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so, as that's no longer in your userspace. See how the link doesn't begin with User, instead beginning with Category? That means that it's in the category space, and isn't part of your user area anymore. Why don't you just create that as a subpage, such as User:Sunfazer/FictitiousUsers for testing templates? That would be fine. Blackcap (talk) 15:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Pigsonthewing blocked

I've blocked Pigsonthewing (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) indefinitely. His bad edit to good edit ratio is far too high to help the project. --Phroziac _. o º 22:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Np with me. --Doc 22:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Note also the current motion to ban him for a year (WP:RFAr#Motion to ban User:Pigsonthewing). Just noting, I'm not disputing this block.--Sean|Black 22:48, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

By the way, the reason for the block was mostly that arbcom was sitting on their hands with it, and not rejecting or accepting it. --Phroziac _. o º 23:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Which are totally unacceptable grounds for a life ban. Secretlondon 01:39, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

If forced to guess I'd put his 'bad edit to good edit ratio' at about 1 bad to 3 good (out of 19,000+ edits). (Clarification added subsequently - 1 to 3 assuming that every revert and extra edit due to not using preview is counted as 'bad'). If that's 'far too high to help the project' then I think you need to indefinitely block about half the people who have ever contributed here.
There is nothing in blocking policy which sanctions such a block. --CBD _☎ 22:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not talking about in the past, i'm talking about in the present. How many good edits has he made post-rfar? One or two that I saw. --Phroziac _. o º

That at least is true. But still doesn't change the fact that there is no sanction for such an action. If you want the policy to be 'any admin can indefinitely block a user with thousands of good contributions if the admin feels they are not productive' then make such a proposal and get the policy changed. If you can do it without changing the policy then the policies are basically meaningless. --CBD _☎ 23:21, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

From WP:BP, section 1.3 - Bans, "Community consensus that the user should be banned (for example, the quickpoll process briefly used in the first half of 2004)". There appears to be a small consensus here that he should be banned. If you'd like to formalize this, we could always hold a poll (elsewhere, perhaps as a subpage of his RFAr). —Locke Cole • t • c 23:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, he's blocked and the block was posted publicly. If none of the around 700 admins unblock him, that sounds like a consensus. --GraemeL 23:33, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Last time I did that, the person I shortened the duration of the ban of was reblocked and I was accused of violating the blocking policy. See my comments below. Talrias (t | e | c) 00:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

That's for a ban though. If you got enough publicity, we could ban him that way, but I don't really see much point. Anyway, he's currently blocked. The difference is that with a ban, you may not use sockpuppets to evade it. With a block, you can just make a new account and edit from it, in a constructive manner. Bans lead to the fun of constantly getting checkusers on people you suspect of being socks. --Phroziac _. o º 23:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd bet that at least half of those 19,000+ edits are reverts. —Locke Cole • t • c 23:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I dislike the concept of indefinite bans for cases such as these, coming from admins outside the Arbitration Committee. I have seen myself some of Pigsonthewing's personal attacks - and he is quite unrepentant in making them, but he might have matured in 6 months; a year; 5 years. I would prefer, if we're going to block him, that we block him for 6 months, if he's still acting in the same fashion, just block him for another 6 months. See my RfC where a similar thing is being discussed. Talrias (t | e | c) 23:00, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Interesting point, but I'm just not sure. My opinion on indefinite is that if they would like to appeal it after a lengthy time, then letting them back in should be strongly considered. --Phroziac _. o º 23:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Talrias; POTW has probably earned a lengthy block, but what's wrong with 6 or 12 months? Unless there's any probability that ArbCom would have banned him longer than a year, we're making a "community patience" ban more powerful than ArbCom (which involves so much more evidence and discussion of wrongdoing and appropriate sanction). That seems clearly wrong to me. Rd232 00:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

ArbCom can only ban for up to one year. And this is a block, not a ban. --Phroziac _. o º 01:33, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Defacto they are the same thing. You've just decided that you should be the arbcom. Secretlondon 01:40, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

No, I decided I was sick of dealing with him. Indefinite blocks are nothing new. --Phroziac _. o º 02:07, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

So... those two edits ( ) he made since the last time you blocked him (for removing content from his own talk page) necessitated an indefinite block? I'm sorry, but I think it is a terrible thing that admins can punitively block people outside of policy for complaining about punitive blocks outside of policy. It basically says, 'if an admin blocks you for reverting their article edit do not complain... that rule which says they cannot do that isn't really true'. It's just wrong. --CBD _☎ 02:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

These are the most constructive and encyclopedic edits I've ever seen. I don't know, maybe he could leave karmafist the fuck alone? We're here to write an encyclopedia, not to wage nuclear wars. --Phroziac _. o º 03:16, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

And Pigsonthewing was one of the most constructive encyclopedia builders on this place until a group of admins and their friends decided to harass him and make a series of punitive (and often specious) blocks after he dared to complain about abuse of admin privileges. It is absolutely true that he is no longer acting as a productive user. It is equally true that this was brought about by admins thinking they can block people just because they were "sick of dealing with" them. Admins deciding that they can run roughshod over users they don't like in violation of policies on blocking, civility, and personal attacks turns good contributors into people who hate the entire project. So when you complain about Pigsonthewing not contributing - remember who it was that made him that way. --CBD _☎ 12:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd disagree with that. While the fall-off of his useful contributions is definitely a recent thing, his incivility and intransigence is not. He was, in my opinion, problematic from the beginning. —Matthew Brown (T:C) 10:28, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I'm sorry for being incivil earlier. --Phroziac _. o º 15:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you and no problem. I'm sure my stubborness on this point can be annoying, but civility is always a good thing. --CBD _☎ 16:05, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Where does it say this? Just interested, Talrias (t | e | c) 01:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I just checked his contributions and was appalled. I know I have defended him in the past but now I've just had enough. He used to make many good contributions, but he's obviously no longer interested in that and just wants to stir up trouble. Good call Phroziac, he's had enough chances already. the wub "?!" 23:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

He's been around a real long time, since October of 2003 basically . Looks like he's definitely contributed to WP, but looks like he's been causing trouble for a while now too. --Interiot 23:47, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Ever since he was blocked over a content dispute, which is the only thing other than 'enforced vacation' which admins are specifically prohibitted from blocking for, and nobody would do anything about it. --CBD _☎ 23:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Threats from a blocked user

Anybody have any suggestions on how to stop constant death threats and insults posted to my talk page over the last few weeks from banned Dacodava (talk · contribs)? He has threatened me a number of times, and shows no signs of stopping: , , , from various anonymous IPs (85.186.186.5, 82.77.7.133, 82.77.7.161). I banned Dacodava originally, and then blocked each IP temporarily, but I don't know how to stop this. His behavior is extremely unpleasant, and discouraging, and is a good argument about people using their real identities on Misplaced Pages. Can anyone help me solve this problem? --Goodoldpolonius2 00:33, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Addresses 82.77.7.0 - 82.77.7.255 are assigned to Imagine Cablu Onesti, Bacau / Romania. Maybe you can contact their abuse line:

| ABUSE CONTACT: abuse@rdsnet.ro IN CASE OF HACK ATTACKS, |

| ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, VIOLATION, SCANS, PROBES, SPAM, ETC. |

Give them the date and time of the attacks and links to the edits. User:Zoe| 00:58, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Worth a try, but I can't recall them ever caring even when they have whole /16 netblocks hijacked by spammers. --GraemeL 01:38, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

85.186.186.5 is also a Romanian address, Astral Telecom in Cluj-Napoca, abuse address abuse@astral.ro -- Arwel (talk) 02:16, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Jim16 re: User talk:66.17.116.148

This user Jim16 (talk · contribs) informed me I owed 66.17.116.148 (talk · contribs) an apology. I reviewed the situation and found such a request to be in bad faith... and that Jim16 has made a significant number of user talk edits recently; specifically pretending they were not aware of the vandalism they caused. It may be necessary to conduct a CheckUser in this situation. - RoyBoy 01:25, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

This and this edits (among other) suggest it's the same person. -- KTC 03:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Minor edit text

Is it just me or is the minor edit text appearing as "This is a ]"? enochlau (talk) 04:30, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

That's my fault for not checking sufficiently before making changes (and for those who attempted in the past not leaving appropriate experimental results). You'll find that you sometimes get this, and sometimes don't and it probably depends on server caches not being up-to-date. See my talk page and MediaWiki talk:minoredit for more info on what was attempted and what happened. jnothman 04:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

The Bill obsessive

Someone obsessed with The Bill keeps adding misinformation to many articles, claiming various people to be actors from the series, frequently changing the Glenn Quagmire entry too. I think the IPs begin 210.54, 210.55 and 203 in all cases - a range which is far too great to block. I've decided not to semi-protect Glenn Quagmire because when the edit happens on that article I know to go and revert most of the other edits that IP has made... and it's always an IP with no previous edits. The general pattern is for the same person to add two or three correct(?) entries (usually involving cricket) and then get on with the silliness. This has been going on for well over a month now. How can we stop it? violet/riga (t) 11:00, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it's been going on since May - though he's been much more insistent lately, to the best of my knowledge. It's also been discussed on the village pump, and there's a section for him on the long-term alerts of the Vandalism in Progress page. I've no idea what to do, to be honest; he's been told too many times that we don't like what he's doing, he's been reverted too many times to count, so you'd think that he would just give up. The best solution is to have a look at Special:Recentchangeslinked/User:Stephen_Turner/CricketersTalk or maybe the history of Quagmire, because his newest edits and hence new IP incarnation usually appear there. Sam Vimes 14:44, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I doubt whether he can be stopped. He also makes talk pages with tiny stubs. Sometimes the IPs are used, again but it's a wide range. The cricket and rugby entries are usually correct and sometimes there are real additions and cleanups of pages as well. The cricket people have decided to let the stubs exists because he'll just recreate them anyhow and at least the basic info is correct.

As far as the vandalism goes, it is widespread. The Simpsons, The Bill and Andre 3000 and random vegan statements is the main vandalism, but there is more like very complex name exchanges, songs dedicated to people and mentioned on their grave, feet amputated to be in wheelchairs and much more weird entries often involving multiple people to make the comments consistent when you try to check it by following the wikilinks. Also entries like categorizing politicians as Roman Catholics are done in a random manner.

I checked most pages changed by him (at least the ones I could find), most had already been reverted, but some were left. As far as stopping him, it'll be very hard because it's 10 edits and 10 hours later he returns under a different IP. Semi-protect will not work, because the Recent links and pages like List of Vegans are the best way to check where he has been. I recommend tagging the IP talk page so we at least know that the contributions have been checked and reverted. KittenKlub 00:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:1911

The text of this template is grammatically incorrect; a better phrasing would be something like...

This article incorporates text from the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica, a publication in the public domain.

That way, it's a correct use of an appositive and not a incorrect use of a comma separating a prepositional phrase from the rest of its sentence.

~Topaz 11:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I have changed it per your suggestion. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 11:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Im back

This is User:Hollow Wilerding back again. --Hollows Wilerding 11:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I have blocked this account for ten million months. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 12:27, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Bogdanov Affair

Me, Igor and Grichka are satisfied with the Misplaced Pages article and want it unprotected. Igor wishes to come back with a new account so he can edit Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your time. --MatthewBogdanov 13:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't look possible at this time...--MONGO 13:26, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, Igor has promised to become a Misplaced Pages contributor and he is satisfied with the article so unprotect it. --MatthewBogdanov 13:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Uh, logical contradiction there: if he's satisfied with the article, why does he want it unprotected? --Calton | Talk 15:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

The page is not going to be unprotected. If you want it unprotected, ask User:Fred Bauder. He semi protected it and he's a member of the arbcom, who made the decision to block users involved in the Bogdanov affair. Ask him. I don't see an admin overruling Fred anytime soon. --Woohookitty 17:55, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

And btw, try again. For one thing, Igor is more than welcome to start an account and edit Misplaced Pages. The problem is that he only edits the Bogdanov Affair article, which he cannot do according to the arbcom decision on this case. He has not been banned for life. The protection of BA does not stop him from starting an account and becoming a real Misplaced Pages editor. So in other words, we don't have to unprotect BA in order for him to get an account and edit Misplaced Pages as a real contributor. So this request is a naked attempt for him to get access to the article again. That ain't going to happen until the arbcom changes it's mind. --Woohookitty 18:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Need help

I have found a User who has been criminally attacked. How do I help this User w/o being reprimanded in ANY shape, form, etc. ? He has been criminally attacked repeatedly by a racist group on Misplaced Pages itself. Martial Law 20:34, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean physically attacked? Is this in reference to the message you just left on my talk page? If so, please forward details (and even if its not, please also send details). E-mail info if needed.--Alabamaboy 20:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

The polite version is this:" Until you leave Misplaced Pages, We will continue to harrass you.", then these people left their contact info. Martial Law 20:51, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I was only responding to a Wikipedian who had need of assisstance. Appreciate the help. Martial Law 21:10, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

It appears to me that the harrasser didn't post their own contact information, but rather User:Bumpusmills1's parents contact info. Now according to Bumpusmills1 his parents have received at least one piece of harrassing mail. At this point, it seems appropriate to me to try to track down the harrassers via their ISP(s), if possible. This type of harassment is way out of line. -GTBacchus 21:40, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I asked several users with Checkuser rights to compare the ISP numbers of these anonymous users. However, obviously this new info jacks up the seriousness of all of this. The ISPs of the people (or person) doing this are 68.45.146.191 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), 199.216.98.66 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and 216.13.219.229 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). Any admin who has checkuser rights--please run a check and see if this is a Misplaced Pages editor doing this. Thanks.--Alabamaboy 00:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Ask anyone on the Arbcom: the ones that spring to mind are Fred Bauder, Raul654, Mindspillage, Neutrality, Jdforrester, and Jayjg. Blackcap (talk) 01:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

The last two have no edits or contributions (I don't see how you got them) but 68.45.146.191 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) is probably GNAA_Staos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who did this edit earlier. Fred Bauder 01:19, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks for the help. Do you think this warrants blocking the user for a time (or is the evidence not strong enough)? I believe so but I'd prefer to have other opinions on this, especially for how long a block?--Alabamaboy 01:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Do him for a month like the socks then see whether he can still get in Fred Bauder 01:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks again.--Alabamaboy 01:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked for one month GNAA_Staos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), the user who has been using the 68.45.146.191 IP, for harassment and gross vandalism; in addition to the harassment of User:Bumpusmills1, he's responsible for some pretty dastardly vandalism of other articles. The reason why no edits appear for the other two IPs is that all of their edits were deleted when Alabamaboy deleted Bumpusmills1's user page. Unfortunately, there's no way to know if GNAA Staos was using those IPs, although I doubt it as his IPs are on the US East Coast and the other two are both located in or around Vancouver, BC. Kelly Martin (talk) 01:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. The edits of the other ISPs were on Bumpusmill1's user page. Admins can access the deleted edits here if they want to check the edits out. All of the ISPs, though, made the same vandalism and threat so they're likely one person. BTW, I deleted and recreated Bumpusmill1's user page at his request so regular users wouldn't have access to his personal contact info. Best,--Alabamaboy 02:04, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Note that deleting the edits removes the IP edit history (meaning we can't find the underlying IP from which a logged in editor made the edit). I don't know if the IPs are restored when the edits are undeleted; perhaps a developer can answer that. (As an aside: it would be really nice if CheckUser searched deleted edits, too.) Kelly Martin (talk) 02:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Didn't know that. Thanks for the info. The user was frantic about removing his personal info and that was the only way to do it short of bring a developer into the game (which seemed unlikely). Just for future reference, should I have deleted the old page to remove the personal info? Seemed like there was no good choice. Best,--Alabamaboy 14:14, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Short block is inappropriate, extended to indefinite Fred Bauder 02:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

No argument from me. Kelly Martin (talk) 02:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Ditto.--Alabamaboy 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Markup bugs

The source codes of {{Did you know}} and {{In the news}} are missing final </div> tags. Please an administrator fix this (just add <div> to the end of the source codes of each template), since this is causing problems when I am trying to switch Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Usability/Main_Page/Draft to use a div-based layout instead of a table-based layout. Infinity0 21:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Done. :) Always glad to help make Wiki's HTML more compliant. --Golbez 22:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Acct creation throttle hit

I, with help from Mark, changed the text on MediaWiki:Acct creation throttle hit to be more friendly and easy to read. I left a note on the talk page, which had not been acted upon for some time, so I went ahead and was bold, but I'm not sure if I'm correct in this. I said that a sysop could temporarily raise the number of accounts allowed per IP, but I'm not sure this is correct. Are Bureaucrats/Stewards allowed? Are admins? Is anyone (besides, I'm guessing, devs) allowed to change the number? Any help would be greatly appreciated. -Mysekurity 02:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I certainly don't have a button to do that. -Splash 02:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Neither do I... which is why I'm concerned. I saw Rdsmith4 reverted it, but it would be nice to have something like this, but oh well, Bugzilla is swamped as-is, sadly... -Mysekurity 03:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Welcome

(moved to Template talk:Welcome —Cryptic (talk) 09:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC))

3RR violation at John Kerry

Gamaliel violated the 3RR rule at John Kerry today. Here are the diffs:

1. 05:19, 5 January 2006 -
2. 05:23, 5 January 2006 -
3. 09:03, 5 January 2006 -
4. 02:54, 6 January 2006 -
5. 08:18, 6 January 2006 -

He's an admin so I don't want to tangle with him, but something should be done. If you study the reverts he made, they were clearly made against non-vandal edits. For this reason, Gamaliel should not be allowed to flaunt the 3RR simply because he's pushing his own preferred text instead.

Requests like these belong at our special 3 revert rule noticeboard, not here. Thanks. --Woohookitty 11:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Viktors Devglas

Someone called Viktors Devglas has appeared today (6th Jan) and made a large number of contributions. From a brief survey, he seems to see WP as his personal soap-box. I don't want to shoot him down in flames (be kind to the newbies), but some of his work is rather questionable, IMHO. For example, a large essay in the Buddhism article. See 141.153.252.227.

Camillus 12:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

The essay the user inserted in Buddhism was a copyright violation of ]. Since the essay has been removed, I pointed this out on the user's talk page.--Alabamaboy 01:01, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

It appears I may have been too kind to this newby. Perhaps an admin could have a look at the other contributions he made, which appear to me to be quite random, for example, adding wikify tags to articles that are clearly already wikified etc. Camillus (talk) 02:20, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Move of page to existing redirect (following requested moves)

• User:Ciaran_H/Middle_man → Middle man

It seems the general consensus (support on both this page and requested move page) is for this page move to go ahead. Since this obviously requires an admin, I'm requesting here! Thank you, Lox (t,c) 13:33, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Done. --Phroziac _. o º 15:39, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! --Lox (t,c) 09:58, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

MARMOT

I've reblocked MARMOT (talk · contribs) because some of his recent edits are suggestive of a return to vandalism. Particularly note this last edit: (creating User:Linuxbeak/Vandalism technology with edit summary "developing new innovations"), as well as announcing that the new user User:Frinelli walker is him ; this latter account made a series of rapidfire edits to User:Linuxbeak/Sandbox, possibly as a test of some bot tool. He also added himself to Phroziac's list of vandals . Perhaps I'm overreacting? Anyone know what's going on? -- Curps 19:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I can explain somewhat. I gave him permission to toy with my sandbox. I told him not to vandalize anything. Linuxbeak (drop me a line) 19:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmmmmm. Can you ask him what his "Frinelli walker" bot is for? -- Curps 19:48, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd hazard that a playing around with his own sandbox would have been the wiser course of action. -Splash 19:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

It's his "developing new innovations " comment along with the apparent use of a bot that's kind of the issue... -- Curps 19:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm all in favor of reforming vandals, so I'm sure you'll excuse my asking whether he's actually done anything productive since his "pardon"? — Dan | talk 19:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

And now a bunch of alphanumeric-soup usernames have been created, some of which have edited User:Linuxbeak/Vandalism technology, creating garbage text. How did these brand new accounts know about this brand-new page, which MARMOT only created 15-30 minutes earlier, unless they're him? The alphanumeric-soup accounts have now been blocked (see Special:Log/block). -- Curps 20:04, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that last night MARMOT was on #wikipedia on IRC, saying he's going to vandalize every page from a 100mbit line. *shrug*. --Phroziac _. o º 15:34, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Linuxbeak brought him into #wikimedia so he could talk to brion about something he was doing; I never really could figure out what he was trying to tell us. Perhaps Linuxbeak could offer more clarity about exactly what it is that MARMOT was developing, and how exactly it is of benefit to us. -- Essjay · Talk 21:35, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Pitchka and Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Catholic Alliance of wikipedia

Pitchka (talk · contribs) has recently removed certain comments made by himself/herself from Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Catholic Alliance of wikipedia . I reverted the removal with an admittedly testy edit summary . Pitchka then came back and re-removed the same comments . I reverted the removal once again and protected the page.

On the one hand, Pitchka is simply removing comments that brush pretty heavily up against WP:NPA.

On the other hand, the discussion was closed over a week ago, and the text "Please do not modify it" is written in bold, red text at both the top and the bottom of the archive, which is why I have reverted his/her edits and protected the page.

My fellow admins are cordially invited to review my actions, and revert them if sufficient cause is found.

All the best.
Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 00:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

My view is that you're right, if it's a closed debate no changes should be made. If those comments violate NPA the user should never have made them in the first place. NSLE _(T+C) 00:49, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Gulzarres

... has decided to go around replacing people's talk pages or user pages with the "defban" template, saying "you have been blocked for posting potentially defamatory..." etc. etc. Michael Hardy 00:47, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Ditto Gui Redfor (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log). FreplySpang (talk) 01:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Add Guizaldo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to that list. I asked Kelly Martin for a checkuser on them. I'll ask her to reply here. --GraemeL 01:12, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Just keep on blocking 'em. Wonder where they're getting the user names? Flcelloguy (A note?) 01:20, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Block of User:SuperButchBitch - "inappropriate username"

I was browsing the block list and I saw this block, by NSLE (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for "inappropriate username": Is this really necessary? And has her IP been blocked too so she can't even create a new account? I don't know her but this seems well, a bit over the top. No attempt to even talk to the user or explain that she may be blocked first either, from what I can see.

I added Template:UsernameBlocked to the user page as there was no message, notice or warning left by NLSE..

I would like to point out that the username is not insulting anyone and "butch" is likely in context of butch and femme than anything else --Mistress Selina Kyle 12:30, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Being gay myself I don't see this as inappropriate however I can see how others would do, the term "bitch" often being used in a derogatory manner based on gender. Have you contacted NSLE on their talk page regarding the block? -- Francs2000 12:33, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Will do now. --Mistress Selina Kyle

The IP was probably the autoblocker. I blocked for "bitch" more than anything, so if there's a general consensus that the name is not inappropriate I'll be glad to undo the block. NSLE _(T+C) 12:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok. For other people reading this and deciding for themsleves, might want to see Bitch#Women reclaiming "bitch" - This block is almost like blocking someone for calling themselves gay or queer.. --Mistress Selina Kyle 12:51, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I've unblocked the IP address. NSLE _(T+C) 12:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

From Template:UsernameBlocked: "Due to Misplaced Pages's mechanism for enforcing name changes, your IP address may be temporarily blocked. Unless you have also been engaging in vandalism, we will remove that block as soon as possible—if this doesn't happen within an hour or so, please email an administrator and explain the situation": Is this policy, does anyone know (to unblock IPs of non-obvious vandals so they can change their username)? Maybe it should be, I wouldn't be surprised if there's been a few good intentioned newbies banned and never coming back as a result of being perhaps a bit too daring in their choice of username.. --Mistress Selina Kyle 13:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I just tried emailing to tell her about it but there's none set. bleh. Misplaced Pages really could've done with another (probably) lesbian editor to provide perspectives on topics, there aren't many..

I hope in future for usernames that aren't obviously a personal attack on someone you'd at least try to talk to the user first before blocking in future, WP:BITE and all.. --Mistress Selina Kyle 12:55, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

The few admins I've asked all think it's sort of an inappropriate name, but I won't take any action until there's a clear consensus on what to do, it's admittedly, when you look at it from your POV, a borderline case. NSLE _(T+C) 13:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

This is borderline, but I think based on the evidence this case deserves an unblock tbh. -- Francs2000 13:04, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

This user shouldn't have been blocked outright, but should have been notified that their username violated the acceptable username policy and telling them to choose a new username (I understand bureaucrats or stewards can move user accounts to new names). The offensive part of the nickname is 'bitch', not 'butch'. It is irrelevant that this offensive term is self-directed. - Mark 13:03, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

It's hard to ascertain without being able to do a wildcard search through the block logs, but I'm pretty sure we have a clear history of blocking usernames with the word "bitch" in it, regardless of whether it's self-directed or not. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 13:27, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

This is clearly an inappropriate username. The only reason NSLE is taking flak for this is because it somehow slipped past Curps' bot. I would have blocked it too. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 13:41, Jan. 7, 2006

I agree with Mark. We should notify users of action we take against them unless there's good reason not to. (It's not like it was a personal attack on someone else, in which case we wouldn't necessarily want to encourage them to stay.) Rd232 14:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Bitch#Women reclaiming "bitch" - Its not always offensive. It's more offensive to censor such well-meaning self expression. WP:AGF, WP:BITE.. --Mistress Selina Kyle 13:49, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Allowing one opens the door for incessant hand-wringing to allow others. "But you let User:SuperButchBitch in, so why can't I use User:StupidBitch? I'm just trying to reclaim the term!" And then we get to spend our time having to justify the few we allow to the majority we disallow, and explaining to the majority we disallow why they don't rate. Which would generate reams of angst and drama, and for what benefit? So that a few users get to be among a selected elite allowed to use a username most other people aren't allowed to?

Sounds like a lot of trouble, effort, and acrimony to me for an extraordinarily trivial and marginal benefit.

I say "Let 'em crash."

Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 13:56, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

There's no way to call someone "stupid" in a nice meaning of the word. Bitch however, is used as an affectionate term or as self-empowerment in some circumstances: The case is entirely different to the other example.. --Mistress Selina Kyle 14:11, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Anything can be theoreticaly used affectionately by somebody. Many find lack of intellect or bitchiness charming, and others are masochists who might well derive great pleasure in being refered to as a "stupid bitch". We don't care about how this person ment it tho, because the policy is against usernames which are disuptive or offensive to us, not to the user themself. I agree that it would have been best to discuss the user name w the user, but its definitely not a big deal, or worth the blocking admin getting any more concerned than they already are. I am sympathetic w Selina's POV (well, not really, but at least she explained it well), but we shouldn't have queer or gay as a username either, much less fag or nigger, which are words also being "reclaimed". Sam Spade 14:31, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

The doctrine of "offensiveness" is a tricky one to invoke. Let me just say that I am not bothered by this name, that it is important to apply sense of humor to such things even if it is not possible to induce it in others, and that the suppression of user names in itself raises serious issues, certainly much more so than the content, at least in this case. But I would even argue that totally confused and aggressive names (say, "Jewhater") should be left to reap their own rewards. Haiduc 15:56, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Obvious unblock. The culture here is moving strongly towards blocking for anything - I feel like one of the few non-authoritarian admins. *sigh* Secretlondon 20:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I fully support this as an inappropriate username. While I usually don't block at first for not blatantly offensive usernames (such as ones insulting Misplaced Pages or Jimbo), this definitely falls under offensive. The word "bitch" is widely considered and regarded as both offensive and derogatory; if you're not offended, fine. But because it is considered as offensive and derogatory, then it's an inappropriate username. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 16:24, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo isn't god. Blocking (and especially blocking without communication) is considerably more offensive. Secretlondon 20:49, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree.. --Phroziac _. o º 18:17, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes well said Flcelloguy. KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 19:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, there's no clear consensus on the username, and I'd prefer to keep it blocked, per Extreme Unction's brilliant reasoning about having a select few. NSLE _(T+C) 00:48, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, if there is no clear consensus I do not see why this accountname should remain blocked. I agree with the others here that it can (and is being) used as a term of self-empowerment, especially in this context. There does not appear to be any malign intent on the part of the user either, so an attempt by the administrator to talk about it first would have been appropriate at the very least, in my opinion. That said, I am only a sysop on NSwiki so perhaps not an expert on 'big wiki jurisprudence', however I was unaware that banning things in case they are contentious or controversial is standard wiki policy. --Knootoss 01:29, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Without trying to make light of the issue, I'd draw comparisons to Revenge of the Nerds, where at first the jocks use 'nerd' as a derogatory phrase, and by the end of the film, the nerds have reclaimed the word, with Lewis stating that he's proud to be a nerd, and summons all other nerds to step forward.

And the parallels between this issue and the reclamation of 'queer' and and (here in Australia) 'wog' (for immigrants of South European descent) are obvious. 'Bitch' is considered an offensive phrase used towards women, but I'm all for those attempting to reclaim the word. Cnwb 01:55, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Being only 19, I'm often told I'm too cynical for my age. I'm afriad people are right, but here goes:

We're bitching about a username which was most likely created for shock value. "SuperButchBitch" is offensive. Misplaced Pages is not the place to "reclaim" the term bitch back to women. Sorry. Can we worry about something more.. important? I'm really sorry for acting like this, but come on! Linuxbeak (drop me a line) 02:03, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Hear, hear. — Dan | talk 10:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes yes, I agree. "Bitch" is still considered offensive by a very large majority of people and is not appropriate for Misplaced Pages. Invite the user to make a new username, keep this one blocked, and let's be done with it. Cookiecaper 10:15, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. There may be an ogoing reclamation effort, but Misplaced Pages is here to report on knowledge as it is, not to promote social change. Fact is many people find the word offensive, which is against the username policy. That said, I agree with Mark and Selina that the user simply should have been notified first and asked to change usernames instead of instablocked. - Taxman 19:41, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

User:VMORO, User:Peter Isotalo, Bulgarian lexis, and Bulgarian vocabulary

It occasionally happens that well-meaning admins, through inattention or misjudgement, allow themselves to be drawn into conflicts they should probably avoid. As Wile E. Coyote once said, "Even super-geniuses can have an off day."

Well, I have apparently had an off day.

I'll spare you an excrutiatingly detailed exegesis, and simply provide the following timeline:

• User:VMORO created the article Bulgarian lexis on February 24, 2005.
• Bulgarian lexis resided at that article title until December 26, 2005, when it was moved to Bulgarian vocabulary by User:Peter Isotalo.
• A brief edit/move war ensued, featuring a cut-and-paste recreation of Bulgarian lexis.
• The issue was brought to my attention by User:Peter Isotalo. I came in, saw that Bulgarian vocabulary was indeed consistent with other, similar article titles covering similar subjects (Spanish vocabulary, Turkish vocabulary, Portuguese vocabulary), and incorrectly assumed that Bulgarian vocabulary had been the original title of the article and had been moved to Bulgarian lexis by User:VMORO.
• I protected Bulgarian vocabulary from further editing and nominated Bulgarian lexis for AFD (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bulgarian lexis) as being an exact duplicate of Bulgarian vocabulary.

The long and short of it is: I fucked up. As near as I can determine, the page was moved by Peter Isotalo without prior discussion. While I agree that there's probably a strong argument for having the page at Bulgarian vocabulary vs. Bulgarian lexis, these arguments were not made prior to the move, and support for the move is obviously not universal.

Consequently, I will be unprotecting Bulgarian vocabulary immediately upon posting this notification, and notifying the involved parties of my actions.

This leaves the rather thorny problem of the AFD. I am going to close the AFD, with a pointer to this post in the closing notes. This is a somewhat non-standard approach to an AFD closure, so I wanted to make sure my reasons for so doing were outlined in full, lest there be any misunderstandings. Anyone who feels that I should not close the AFD discussion is cordially invited to re-open it.

All the best.
Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 15:12, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

They have been edit-warring over style at Macedonian (disambiguation) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) as well. Izehar 15:30, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I see. There is de-facto consensus and common sense argumentation in favor for "vocabulary", but since one user who regularly abuses other editors (particularly in edit summaries), ignores discussion and mocks any sources not approved by him personally questions it, we have to seek a new consensus. This is going to be quite the boon to Bulgarian-related articles.

Peter 17:03, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism from 212.159.56.225

All user: 212.159.56.225 contributions seem to involve changing the figures any sega or nintendo articles to bias sega.

For example: Editing links to nintendo sales figure into POV sites.

Subtly changing numbers in dreamcast and sega to make it appear to sell more.

Subtly changing numbers in nintendo products to make it appear to sell less well.

FlyHigh 16:57, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Numismatics inexpert moves

There are a couple of page moves for numismatic articles that were handled improperly, and we need an administrator to sort things out:

• Gulden (historical denomination) was split to South German gulden and Austro-Hungarian gulden by cut-and-paste. The split was proper, but the manner was not. And once that's handled, Austro-Hungarian gulden needs to be merged with Austrian florin -- I'm not sure if admin help is needed for that part.
• Aruban gulden was moved properly to Aruban florin, but its talk page was not moved (at least I'm guessing that's why the talk page for Aruban florin is talk:Aruban gulden).
• Czechoslovak crown was moved to Czechoslovak koruna by cut-and-paste, and I don't think anything's been done about it (there is history on both pages from before the move -- there has been active discussion at the Numismatics project about where pages belong, and some pages have been moved multiple times. We're currently discussing it (to death) and are not moving articles anymore until it's resolved, but we can still cleanup).

If you need more info, you can ask at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Numismatics, or contact me and I'll be happy to help however I can. Ingrid 02:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I did the (easy) second one. Jkelly 03:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I did the other easy one. Czechoslovak crown has been history merged with Czechoslovak koruna. As for South German and Austro-Hungarian gulden, I'm not sure what can be done there. The edit history is not cut-and-dried, and one of the two split pages would end up with the short end of the GFDL stick, edit-history wise. I'd just turn Gulden (historical denomination) into a disambig page, which would be useful and would preserve contribution history. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 20:49, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. I'll update Gulden (historical denomination). I didn't realize that that was okay. It's definitely much easier. Ingrid 22:57, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Undoing other admins' blocks

Discussion going on at Wikipedia_talk:Administrators'_noticeboard#Undoing_other_admins.27_blocks. Please comment if you have a view so we can determine what the consensus is. Cheers, SlimVirgin 03:30, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

That box needs to go away

The box at the top thanking people for their participation in the fundraiser has been there for a while and now should leave. It was there for three weeks as the drive was going on, and I think it's been cluttering up Misplaced Pages for quite long enough. What's the ETA on removal? Cookiecaper 10:59, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

. . . .

Have you looked at the budget information?

Compare this ($321,200 USD for costs for one quarter) to this, $243,930 actually raised... Misplaced Pages could still do with a lot more funding.. --Mistress Selina Kyle 11:06, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Then I suggest that Wikimedia conducts solicitation of donations in a less asinine way. It'll end up better for them I'm sure. The drive was tolerable but now it's over, and that box needn't gaud up Misplaced Pages anymore. Cookiecaper 11:15, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

As I was told, you can code the banner out if you don't like it. Donations increased significantly with the addition of the sitenotice, so those of us who object should just CSS it out of the way. Just add this to your monobook.css:

/* Remove Unneeded Notices */

#siteNotice { display: none; }

That will quickly remove it, and you'll never be bothered again. If you are concerned about missing important notices, add Mediawiki:Sitenotice to your watchlist. -- Essjay · Talk 12:05, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is to be removed as of 10 January. ] 12:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

It should stay for longer. And people should stop whining about it, you wouldn't be editing here if not for donations. --Mistress Selina Kyle 13:06, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Then you'll be pleased to know that there are plans for a permanent (less prominent) header. ] 14:09, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't object to it, as long as there is an option (as I described above) for those of us who load thousands of pages a day to not be distracted by it. CSS it out and be done with it. -- Essjay · Talk 14:14, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe there are better lines to add to your user CSS which makes invisible only the colorful notice but will not make invisible the normal sitenotice content. For instance you could use #pabanner and #fundraising. --cesarb 21:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Jimmy Wales → User:Jimbo Wales

How about redirecting User:Jimmy Wales to User:Jimbo Wales? The block notice could go on the talk page if it's really important to keep it (even though the imposter can't come back) - Ease for the press/sponsors finding him for comment is a Good Thing --Mistress Selina Kyle 12:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Um, that would be alright, apart from the fact that there are edits in the history that appear to be made by Jimbo, and it would confuse someone who got to the userpage via the history of an article to see Jimbo apparently having made vandalism. I'll add a disambiguation-style notice. ] 12:29, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah yeah didn't think of that. Good idea.

It used to be redirect before the fake/imposter account was made, looks like --Mistress Selina Kyle 12:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Wiki brah blocked

I removed an arbitration request filed by User:Wiki brah because on carefully examining it I came to the conclusion that its intent was to attack a Misplaced Pages user, having the form of a request to be excused for mentioning incidents in that individual's outside life. I have blocked the user for one week because he appears to be intentionally disrupting Misplaced Pages, and I have informed him that if he intends to continue in this vein I think an indefinite block would be in order.

I invite review of this administrator action, but I would appreciate it if the review itself were to focus on the conduct of the blocked user (and of course my own conduct in editing WP:RFAR and blocking him) and not the target of his arbitration request. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 12:41, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

If anyone does choose to overturn this action (and I'm not advocating that) please note that I blocked Wiki brah earlier today for a separate NPA violation, and would appreciate that block being left in place unless both my block and Tony's are to be reversed. -- Essjay · Talk 12:51, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I regret that I neglected to check the block log before blocking and I didn't pick up on this. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:01, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I see no problem with Tony's actions as Wiki brah's actions were a roundabout personal attack. This is not a statement, however, on past admin actions in regards to wb. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 12:53, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, I'm not aware of having taken any past actions with respect to that editor in the past. Presumably you're talking about other administrators. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, sorry. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 13:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

ADDENDUM: on reviewing that editor's recent contributions I see that he has made a personal attack on Kelly Martin: "She's a pig of a woman". He seems to have returned to Misplaced Pages for the sole purpose of denigrating arbitrators that he doesn't like, some of whom are term-expired and up for re-election: "I'm voting...against User:Kelly_Martin, User:Fred_Bauder and User:Theresa_knott (who is just about as bad as Kelly M.". To discourage this kind of dirty campaigning, I'm minded to increase his block period right now so as to take him out of the arbitrator election period. No action taken on this yet. Comments welcome. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

On reviewing this user's recent contributions to the main article namespace, of which there are very few, it appears the encyclopaedia is getting very few benefits from having this user, but increasing disruption. We don't need to preserve the accounts of users who are not here to help improve the encyclopaedia. An indefinite block would be in order, jguk 13:33, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Good luck on getting it to stick; I can't tell you how many times we've indef blocked only to be overruled by a well meaning admin who believes Wiki brah's stories about being innocent. I'm beginning to think nothing short of a direct ban from Jimbo will stick. -- Essjay · Talk 14:12, 8 January 2006 (UTC) I just want to make it clear that I wasn't referring to Lucky when I said this, but rather to a very long discussion that was held on the mailing list. It occurred to me on re-read that with the comments below, it looked like I was referencing him. -- Essjay · Talk 11:35, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, so can't block myself - but it's clear to me that this user is no longer editing in order to improve the encyclopaedia. I have, and I think we all should have, a very low tolerance level of disruption by such editors before making an indefinite block (or long - eg one year) block, jguk 14:44, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Whatever happens, it would be best to take it up with Lucky 6.9 (talk · contribs) first.--Sean|Black 20:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I feel a little contrite myself, because I was an administrator who, although I never unblocked, was in favor of giving this chap the benefit of the doubt.

On the above, I agree that with his past history there is no reason to retain him any longer. I'm blocking him indefinitely. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 20:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

• It's the right thing to do. I kinda think he's not even a real person, but rather a persona designed as an irritant. (He's occasionally made errors that could be interpreted as slipping out of character.) Either that, or he is a real person, who is clearly both unable and unwilling to improve Misplaced Pages. If the former, well, I imagine the creator of the persona has several running at once. If the latter, Misplaced Pages is not therapy; nor is it a chat room or a playground. He shoulda been out of here months ago; I'm embarassed that at first I thought he had some potential. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 04:04, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Lord knows we all tried. Sean just let me know what happened. Heck, I personally put a permanent block on him at one time. That attack on Fred just wasn't right. I certainly won't revert the block. Sean, thanks for the heads-up. - Lucky 6.9 07:04, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

No problem. If anybody should know, it's you.--Sean|Black 07:10, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Instantnood and Huaiwei

• Instantnood (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Huaiwei (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

These two users are engaging in a nuclear war, and I've blocked both of them for 24 hours. They seem to have an ForestFire burning, running around reverting every edit the other one makes. I have no clue who started it, but this has to stop. Check out the histories of the pages they've done this on, for example, Barbecued pork, List of countries by area, Queensway. --Phroziac _. o º 16:46, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

And uhh, apparently this has been going on for quite a while, see Template:Cuisine of China. --Phroziac _. o º 16:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Instantnood has been involved in at least two ArbCom cases; the most recent placed him on probation for edit warring over China-related topics: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Instantnood 2, see also original Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Instantnood, et al.. Instantnood 2 also imposed a probation remedy on Huaiwei. Both can be banned from any article that they disrupt through inappropriate editing.

Though not part of the ArbCom remedy, I believe that escalating blocks for disruptive behaviour that spreads the forest fire elsewhere would probably be appropriate. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree. --Phroziac _. o º 17:43, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Mmm, the way they're battling, it looks like they'll just start nuking another page if they get banned from one. --Phroziac _. o º 17:43, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I intervened on this little brawl at Guangshen Railway by protecting the article and pointing them to RfC (see the comments on the talk page). 'nood indicated that it would be pointless though. Should the page be unprotected? Izehar 17:42, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible to ghet Arbcom to extend the injunction so we can ban either of them from reverting the other? --Doc 20:30, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

That's genius, Doc. Why aren't you running for ArbCom?--Sean|Black 20:55, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

My God... As a previous (failed) mediator of this dispute, I am certain they can carry on this war in any article. I would say use article banning liberally, especially for the nuclei of the dispute, but if they can't control themselves, block. Keep in mind that protection is a last resort of sorts for dispute resolution to work itself out. I'd say it should never be needed here, if they ever escalate to the point where you're considering it, they should simply be banned from the article per probation (this includes SchmuckytheCat). Dmcdevit·t 21:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Suckers wanted

We are still looking for a couple more people to overlook/run the Arbitration Committee elections. Idealy people who have been around for a while and are completely immune to attacks of all kinds.Geni

Run the arbitration committee? Isn't that what this election is for? *grin* Talrias (t | e | c) 21:03, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

People can't add their names now anyway, the election has already been closed to new candidates. Jtkiefer ---- 21:05, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I guess that was a bad joke, Geni was referring to overlooking the elections, as shown by the wikilink, but he didn't write that in the text. Ah well. Talrias (t | e | c) 21:08, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

correct I have corrected the error.Geni 21:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Revert warring by a user not actually using template in question

Not sure how to handle this but this is clearly inappropriate as the user doesn't even use the template: Everyone using the template obviously likes it as it is already, since they have it on their page, but this user seems to want to "standardize" all templates whether the people using them on their pages want to or not.

seems determined to impose his version of the template on everyone even though he doesn't use it

Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:User Aspie --Mistress Selina Kyle 22:44, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I've put a warning on the talk page that several people are already in violation of WP:3RR. As I believe in giving people the chance to change their behavior, I have not blocked anyone. But I suggest that if anyone continues to revert they be blocked. I'm going off-line, so I hope someone else can keep an eye on the page. -- Samuel Wantman 23:05, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

• As I count at least five reverts by both User:Mistress Selina Kyle and User:Ec5618 each on Template:User Aspie, I have blocked both for twenty-four hours for a violation of WP:3RR and protected the template until all parties come to an agreement on the talk page. Mistress Selina Kyle definitely knows about the 3RR (she's been blocked for that several times over), so simply warning the users was not appropriate. Bratsche 23:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

• I suspect an entry on WP:LAME may well be appropriate in this case. --Stormie 02:04, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Heh. At least the person who kept trying to change the header to ASP knocked it off; we're not vipers, you know. :p Rogue 9 23:10, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:No legal threats

I just deleted and restored Misplaced Pages:No legal threats and it's talk page. I was closing the discussion at WP:MFD and it's late and I'm tired and I didn't notice I was redirected and I appreciate it is entirely my fault, so I'd just like to apologise. That said, I'm off to bed now so could someone tidy up WP:MFD? Apoloigies once again, and if I could beg a favour, I'd ask that people close discussions when they delete pages, it'd be a big help. Good night. Steve block talk 00:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, I sorted it out myself. Thanks for the help. Steve block talk 12:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Miscellaneous formatting

A mistaken attempt at reverting vandalism has left the RD looking very odd. Just wondering if there is an easy way to revert to the version prior to this, then incorporate the new changes? TIA, pfctdayelise 03:07, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

It's possible to delete and then restore only selected edits. For this case, I think just replacing the section with an earler version would be a whole lot easier. If no one else suggests a better alternative in the next 10 minutes, I'll do this. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:03, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

It's possible for admins only, correct? (Thanks for fixing it.) pfctdayelise 05:49, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Deletion problem

Is anyone else having a problem with deletion? It's throwing this error for me:

Fatal error: Call to undefined function: pagecond() in /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Article.php on line 1728

enochlau (talk) 03:52, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Working OK for me Brookie :) - a collector of little round things! 09:07, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeh seemed to be a transient problem. OK now. enochlau (talk) 09:27, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Possible vote statcking

(merged into WP:ANI#Kelly Martin's RFC/ArbCom vote —Cryptic (talk) 09:06, 9 January 2006 (UTC))

Farassoo

Kaskou (talk • contribs) was warned not to recreate this material, but apparently did not pay heed.
brenneman 11:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Back when this started, I'd heard from this fellow via e-mail after I deleted the copyvio. He's apparently an employee of the company and is trying to do an article, but he's definitely not a native English speaker. I did a non-copyvio version of the article and explained what I was doing, but he couldn't seem to leave well enough alone. It's certainly a large enough corporation to warrant inclusion, but should a non-copyvio version be reposted and protected? It's a weird idea, I know. But, weird situations often call for weird solutions. If anyone has an idea or two, please drop me an e-mail. Later! - Lucky 6.9 05:14, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Whatlinkshere broken?

Has anyone else noticed something wrong with Whatlinkshere, and possibly the "File links" section for images? I first noticed it with Template:Infobox Philippine city, which is only included on 13 articles according to its whatlinkshere-- and I personally know it's used on more pages than that, such as Marikina City and Pasig City. Also, I added Image:Silliman_hall.jpg to the articles for Dumaguete City and Silliman University, but those articles aren't showing up in the "File links" section on the image description page. Coffee 12:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

It could be caching on the server's side... enochlau (talk) 12:51, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

There was something on wikitech-l about template whatlinksheres being broken at the moment and the devs being aware of it. -Splash 14:22, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Role accounts

Are role accounts permitted? I have a sockpuppet called User:Marleyknowe used for editing Northumberland-related articles. Is this allowed on Misplaced Pages?? --Sunfazer 21:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

• It depends what you mean by "role accounts" If you want to have one account for editing Northumberland-related articels, and another for making other kinds of edits, that is fine, provided that you don't chime in on discussuions to support yourself, vote more than once on polls, etc. Unless privicy is an issue, i would suggest a note on the user page of each account pointing to the other -- but no policy requires this that I know of. Shared accounts are not approved (that is, accounts used for editing by more than one person), and neither are accounts whose names imply a lelvel of authority that they don't have on wikipedia. DES 22:11, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Also, "role" accouncts assigned to the current holder of an office or position in some organization outside wikipedia are at least discouraged, if not forbidden. DES 22:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
• I'm not using it for multiple votes in polls etc or to support myself on discussions etc.. If you see the userpage of User:Marleyknowe you will see exactly what I mean. It's only used by me, and no-one else.

"Role" account means an account used for a certain purpose - and these are the only uses that I am using them for. --Sunfazer 22:17, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

On Misplaced Pages, role accounts refer accounts like User:Administrator or User:Arbitrator that suggest the user holds the position referenced in the name. You may have differing definitions for the term, but that is the accepted use here. They are not permitted. — Essjay · Talk 22:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I was asking about sockpuppets and got confused! --Sunfazer 00:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I can see no problem with openly declared sockpuppets. --Doc 00:48, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

It is acceptable to have more than one account to edit various areas?? I'm just checking, don't want to get them blocked by mistake (I've got 1 so far but intend to have 2 more!) --Sunfazer 01:06, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is. See Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppets#Multiple accounts. --cesarb 01:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Mistress Selena Kyle blocked

I have blocked Mistress_Selina_Kyle (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) indefinetly.--Sean|Black 07:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

This is being discussed at WP:AN/I too. Titoxd 07:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah well. I liked her user page. I would have preferred the Arbcom to say something about this, to give due process, but that's just my two cents on the issue. Elle _{vécu heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 07:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

As I mentioned on AN/I I've seen mostly disruption from the user and thought about doing the dirty work several times myself. WhiteNight 07:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I've seen good things come from the user but I actually only heard of the disputes second-hand so I don't have a bad perception of her except that she's controversial. That's only my take, of course. Elle _{vécu heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 07:33, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Sure - that's why I mention it is kind of sad. I mean, she was involved in some community building etc. - but even then it was like an edit war on every page over silly things like the color of a template (Template:User aspie). I think she would have just took advice from other people seriously she would have been ok... *sigh*. Of course, I could say that about a lot of users, I suppose. Reccommended reading for cases like this is Dealing with difficult people (I hope I never cross that line myself...). WhiteNight 07:44, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

That's a good site: it describes the behavior of not a few people I've run across on here. This snippet in particularly is apt:

To counteract such behavior, it helps to understand the mentality of those who engage in it. People generally do not do it consciously. No one wakes up in the morning and says to himself: "Today I'm going to cynically manipulate procedural forms in order to be an irritating obstructionist." Instead, such actions are often preceded by a semi-paranoid feeling of being shut out of group interactions and decisions. The person feels he is not being taken seriously, or (in the more severe cases) that there is almost a conspiracy against him—that the other project members have decided to form an exclusive club, of which he is not a member. This then justifies, in his mind, taking rules literally and engaging in a formal manipulation of the project's procedures, in order to make everyone else take him seriously. In extreme cases, the person can even believe that he is fighting a lonely battle to save the project from itself.

– ClockworkSoul 13:11, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• She'll be back.--God of War 20:59, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• Uh, what does that mean?--Sean|Black 21:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• I would like to see a rather more detailed justification of an indefinate block, persoanlly. DES 21:05, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• Certainly. This user has been blocked 11 times is two weeks, all by fellow adminstrators whom I trust and respect, and always (in my opinion) wth good cause. This user has latched onto edit wars all across Misplaced Pages, frequently on issues that have long been areas of dispute. This user caused a huge ammount of disruption, frequently making disputes much, much, worse than they have to be. All this shows, to me, that this user is not here to build an encyclopedia, in fact seems to want to do quite the opposite.--Sean|Black 21:32, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

With good cause, and well justified perhaps. But for some reason, I can see good faith in this user. Don't ask me why. I suggest a few proposals to indefinitely blocking:

• Block for six months, or a year. See how it turns out after that.
• Remain blocked from all pages, except she has the ability to appeal to an arbitration case. If she violates this she will be reblocked immediately. If she does not violate (what we treat as a temporary injunction), then when the case concludes we accept the decision of the arbitrators.
• Put under mentorship and parole, with limits on editing.

These I feel could easily work out with minimal risk, and she must understand we are giving her mercy, not a right, and that if she violates any terms of this she is reblocked ASAP. Oh, don't you think this could just be a symptom of having Asperger's? (As well as attention-seeking et al.) Just a thought. Elle _{vécu heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 22:04, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

These are 'remedies' in the spirit of Arbitration and any imposition of them, beyond simple block is a matter for the Committee. A simple block, of whatever length, is a matter for admins, unless there is disagreement amongst admins when it must then proceed through the usual channels. -Splash 22:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

On a "lark" I ran a CheckUser on the dear departed Mistress Selina Kyle. It turns out that she shares an IP address with a veritable nest of program vandals. Two of the IPs she has used, including the one she shares with the squad of vandals, belong to a company not engaged in the business of providing web connectivity (they are actually a hosting provider). I suspect that "she" is in some way involved in the program vandalism we've been seeing for months. Given this, I see absolutely no reason why she should not be banned permanently, and the earth salted in her footsteps. Kelly Martin (talk) 22:49, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, I think it quite likely that whoever is behind the Mistress did in fact "wake up in the morning and says to himself: 'Today I'm going to cynically manipulate procedural forms in order to be an irritating obstructionist.'" Kelly Martin (talk) 22:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

By "program" do you mean 'bots or somehow organised vandalism? -Splash 22:54, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Organised. Such as Willy on Wheels, Obesity, etc. The IP she has been using for many of her edits corresponds to one being used for organised vandalism of the aforementioned sort. I suspect that much of that vandalism is automated at this point, as well. Kelly Martin (talk) 23:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm shocked, simply shocked to see that this took so long. Phil Sandifer 23:10, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I am shocked indeed. Perhaps it is my disbelief; when I came across her on Christmas I thought she was such a promising user. I literally cannot believe it. If there was an emoticon for Misplaced Pages for shock, I would certainly be using it now. For some reason, I always seem to get involved in petty disputes and never seem to be involved in intense disputes on Misplaced Pages-wide issues. Perhaps that's the good thing. Elle _{vécu heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 23:27, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• If anyone wants to request arbitration against MSK, or myself because they feel it's necessarry, they are of course welcome to do so. I would respect whatever rulings were to come in such a case, obviously. I do not feel it is necessary, however, and I hope that this block stands.--Sean|Black 00:00, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

• • I think MSK being able to file an appeal to the Arbcom is a good idea but then I don't want to antagonise the community with the need for unnecessary bureaucracy. Elle _{vécu heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 00:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
    • Anyone who wishes to do so may file an appeal to the ArbCom about her block, and myself, is free to do so. That's their perogative.--Sean|Black 00:20, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
      • I will notify her on her talkpage if she is interested. Elle _{vécu heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 00:23, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Of course she'll be back. Under another name, if she doesn't have one already. It was pretty obvious from the very beginning that she was the reincarnation of some other blocked troll. I wonder what Wik is doing right now? User:Zoe| 00:27, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Ferguson TE20 (tractor)

The above named article contains the substantive article text, and Ferguson TE20 where imho the article belongs is a one-edit redirect. The obvious thing to do would be to delete the redirect and move Ferguson TE20 (tractor) to Ferguson TE20, which would create a new redirect. However, I don't have admin powers and I don't know if that the would be the right way of doing things. All I want to achieve is to have Ferguson TE20 as the article. Assistance or advice please. --kingboyk 13:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

The move seems uncontroversial, so I've gone ahead and done it. You could have done it yourself, though, using the 'move' function, since Ferguson TE20 was just a redirect to Ferguson TE20 (tractor) with no edit history. For future reference, the place to go for getting complicated moves done is Misplaced Pages:Requested moves. --Nick Boalch 13:42, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for help and advice, all noted. --kingboyk 14:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

New template for deleted pages

I created a new template, {{deletedmiscpage}}, which should work better than {{deletedpage}} for non-article pages (and should avoid the creation of "talk talk" pages). --cesarb 15:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Request permission to clean up typos in the Alito article

I'm a frequent visitor to Misplaced Pages and have made little editorial corrections in many (probably most) articles I've visited. (I used to work in editing for a publisher and still do some freelance proofreading, and have lent a hand on a couple of pages of the Distributed Proofreading effort at the Online Books Page too, since I love them as much as I love Misplaced Pages.) My husband only recently nudged me that I should leave a titled summary when I make changes, but I'll admit that most of my contributions have been anonymous.

Anyway, I would love to correct the typos and other little inelegancies in the article on Samuel Alito. I'll admit my own POV - he scares me badly, seems a very smart ultraconservative, I do NOT want him confirmed despite his intellect and judicial experience because I believe in women's right to abortion (as well as the importance of an independent judiciary in checking unlimited power of the executive branch) - but really, I'm not out to do anything except make the article more readable. I have been following the confirmation hearings loosely on NPR, though, so if I see anything factually suspect regarding substance of the hearings I'll try to mention it somewhere.

Thanks for your consideration.

Rousse 20:22, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Misplaced Pages is a wiki, so anyone can edit any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to...) The Misplaced Pages community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome.--Sean|Black 21:03, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

It's semi-protected. Presumably Rousse's account is too new to edit the article. Jkelly 21:05, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Oops! I really should check these things. Er, anyway, this obviously a good-faith contributor—Is it at all possible to let her edit it?--Sean|Black 21:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Unprotect completely and supervise editing for a time. Then re-protect. android79 21:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have somewhat hurriedly corrected obvious errors in several sections (the main bio and the Hearing section, 1/10, one other small one too?). I think that's all I have time to do today. (No time for fixing many "inelegancies" - sigh.) Hope my little bit helps. Feel free to "semi-protect" the article again if you fear vandalizing! And thanks for letting me help clean it up. Feedback cheerfully accepted about my edits. Rousse 03:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I see that something has gone wrong with many of my edits to the Hearing section, made a couple of hours ago - they seem to have been wiped out. Am trying to put them back in again. Rousse 07:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Vandalbot

At the moment, Misplaced Pages is under attack from a number of IP addresses (apparently by a vandalbot). The anonymous users remove text from Misplaced Pages articles and replace it with kilobytes of nonsense. See my block log, for example. (By the way, for how long should I block them? One day or longer?) - Mike Rosoft 21:57, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Personally I take a very dim view of vandalbots...so the week you've been applying is the min I would do. Anyone remember what is our precedent the last time we were vandalbotted with the random username vandals? --Syrthiss 22:06, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Can/could they have been range blocked? Note that these were not random username bots, since those would be shootable-on-sight. These were all IPs. -Splash 22:32, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

GNAA "War on blogs" campaign

See User:Timecop/The war on blogs and also see, for instance, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/TechPhile (2nd nomination) and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The Unalienable Right. Some of the blog articles they are systematically targeting may be legitimate deletion candidates; it's just that few websites end up in an improved state after any organized campaign by self-proclaimed GNAA members. So a little extra scrutiny of what they're up to wouldn't hurt. -- Curps 22:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I've already looked over most of the nominations and they're great. Timecop is operating completely within Misplaced Pages's rules. He should be thanked for focusing on a specific area of cleanup. silsor 23:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Until as recently as five days ago, they had The Volokh Conspiracy in their hitlist queue (until some anon IP removed it from their list). That raised a big red flag that they might be trying to sneak some non-delete-worthy articles past us, mixed in with the crowd of more obscure blogs. And their methods are questionable regardless of whether any given targeted article actually is a valid deletion candidate or not: meatpuppets systematically voting as a bloc on multiple articles in response to an organized campaign, often with few other contributions to Misplaced Pages other than the systematic party-line AfD voting. -- Curps 23:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, there's reasonable evidence of this, as they've tried it already. Phil Sandifer 23:44, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

For those who aren't aware, User:Timecop is the founder and leader of the GNAA. -- Pakaran 23:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Femmina, User:Depakote, User:Jmax-, and User:Tapir do almost nothing on Misplaced Pages except vote to delete blog-related articles. An honest effort to delete useless articles would be fine, but these guys are clearly coordinating their efforts off-site and they don't care if they delete useful articles. They all vote "delete" soon after an article is nominated, in order to build momentum. Rhobite 04:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Rhobite - I realize they are from a "trolling organization" but it seems like an honest effort to remove what is otherwise blatent spam. Also, despite the notariety, timecop has made mostly good contributions (which admittedly is kind of strange given the circumstances). I and several other admins are already watching this list (I've voted delete on most and keep and transwiki on a couple others) so I don't think there is a need to be worried at the moment. WhiteNight 05:00, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I take issue with Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler (deleted and currently listed on WP:DRV) and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/W.bloggar (current AfD). Anyone who is familiar with right-wing blogs will recognize the Rottweiler; it won a couple awards in 2002 and 2003, and has been linked from LGF, Instapundit, et al. I think this blog is clearly notable. A disappointingly small number of people voted in its AfD. I will also be very annoyed if W.bloggar is deleted. Thousands of people use this software to post entries to their blog; I used it in the past. GNAA made no attempt to assess the notability of this software, and there are several illegal votes in the AfD by users with no other edits. I see you voted to keep that article, and I'm glad that you're not just knee-jerk deleting. That's what they are doing. It doesn't matter if they get it right most of the time - I care about their disruptive methods. Rhobite 05:28, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, in terms of the Rottweiler article there is obviously geniune disagreement between admins over that one with the majority favoring deletion - plus the GNAA interference in that debate was somewhat minimal (indeed the debate itself was rather minimal). As for W.bloggar that will probably easily be kept, and even if it doesn't there are other high-edit and admins who wanted that article deleted also so it isn't really an open-and-shut case. While the pile-on votes from the new users are somewhat disruptive, as far as I can see it isn't much different then the old schoolwatch debate a while back - except this is even in userspace and not public space. In terms of nominations they actually provide at least some varafiable information (google hits, alexa rankings, etc.) and guideline arguments for most articles which is honestly more than most AfD nominations do, and this was due to criticism about earlier nominations so it seems like an honest attempt to contribute. Call me optimistic, I guess.WhiteNight 06:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget that in their "queue" are several very notable articles including Moblog, Sousveillance (publicized by Steve Mann and covered on Slashdot), Overheard in New York, Video podcasting, and MetaWeblog (widely used API). I wouldn't be surprised if they followed through and nominated The Volokh Conspiracy as well. This isn't good-faith editing. No user should make it their sole purpose to delete articles from Misplaced Pages. Rhobite 06:37, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Stop conspiracy theories. The only people who want to read tripe like "The Volokh Conspiracy" are the same people who enjoy Photocasting from their newly-pucrhased Intel Core Duo MacBook Pro's. Volokh WAS in the queue, no idea which idiot removed it. Probably the article author (and the only person who actually cares about it). --Timecop 07:32, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I added sousveillance to the list. A neologism being plugged on slashdot doesn't convince me of its validity, and it's worth debating on AfD. But that's irrelevant, the point is that timecop & co are operating within the rules, on a job that SOMEONE needed to do sooner or later; the avalanche of blogcruft and foocasting articles was getting crazy. There's enough people watching the War On Blogs to make sure it stays copacetic. Proto t c 07:49, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Edit Counter

The edit counter looks like it's broken again. I keep on making contributions and the number of edits don't change. Sigh :-( Will it ever be properly fixed? SWD316 23:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

It probably only checks the database on the toolserver, which doesn't get instantly updated from the live one here. (Disclaimer: I haven't checked the source code.) —Cryptic (talk) 04:09, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The edit counter does indeed run against the replica on the toolserver, which is usually anywhere from a few minutes to several hours behind the masters (I think the record lag is well over one day). Kelly Martin (talk) 04:13, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Userboxes for deletion

In the past month, wikipedia has seen an explosion of userboxes. Many of these templates feed into dedicated categories. Misplaced Pages has also seen a massive controversy over which userboxes are desirable and which are not, and what actions and processes are appropriate to deal with "undesirable" userboxes. I personally don't see this issue being resolved soon. Also, a lot of bad blood has been created, which might interfere with community operations in the future. Would it be an idea to create a new deletions process, Misplaced Pages:Userboxes for deletion (UfD), to deal with this issue? I believe that there are now so many userboxes, with so many more being created every day, that filling this with new deletion requests shouldn't be much of a problem. It could also prevent an overflow of deletion requests at tfd. This overflow could obstruct non-userbox-related deletion requests. Furthermore, the occasional linkage of templates and categories could create some friction with tfd and cfd. The same has happened between rfd, cfd and tfd on one side, and sfd on the other side. I don't know if this is the proper place to raise this issue, or whether I should go to the Village Pump for it. I also don't know if this is feasible, viable and/or desirable. What are the obstructions to this issue? Aecis 00:25, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Or just delete the lot. --Doc 00:27, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Strongly disagree with Doc. I thought that the recent RfCs should have taught one that single-handed actions by people "feeling strongly" about issues is unproductive. I would also add that it is abuse of administrative powers to go on a deletion rampage; actually to delete even a single userbox without proper process, unless it is clear nonsense or clearly offensive. For full disclosure, I hate userboxes, even the Babel ones (the granddaddy of them all I would guess). But if one does anything, let it be done by proper process, whatever that may be. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 00:52, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

A terrible idea. Witness the morass that WP:SFD has become, where perfectly good redirects like Template:Us-rail-stub → Template:US-rail-stub are unanimously deleted, until it's gotten so that it's practically impossible to sort stubs unless that's almost the only thing you do. Specialized wikiprojects should not have sole voice in deletion. Send 'em through TFD. —Cryptic (talk) 04:02, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree with Cryptic. TfD is the appropriate venue. I'm also concerned that having a separate UFD would lead to a subcommunity of voters that develops a sense of consensus and practice that is at odds with the broader sense of community standards. Kelly Martin (talk) 04:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

What Kelly said about a separate UfD culture developing makes sense to me - we don't want that. The userbox situation is going to have to be resolved by some kind of widespead discussion and consensus about the role of the Misplaced Pages community and what bounds, if any, need to be placed on its growth as a community, which is a non-trivial question. That's the root of the userbox issue, though, and has to be addressed somewhere.

Meanwhile, I would take issue with Cryptic's characterization of SfD - are you aware that template redirects cost double the server resources, and that developers support deleting template redirects? Fascinating stuff, that. Turns out not all redirects are cheap. -GTBacchus 04:25, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware that they cause an extra database query. I'm also aware that they're cheaper than normal redirects, since don't make the squids cache an extra copy of the whole, rendered page. This is an argument for either a soft redirect or bot enforcement. The rest of Misplaced Pages abandoned CamelCase a very long time ago. —Cryptic (talk) 04:49, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

It still never ceases to amaze me that we have new users with a ton of fugly userboxes and very few actual edits. One quick example: The Ungovernable Force, with all of 15 articlespace edits and 18 userboxes, most of which express an opinion rather a skill. I'm still suffering from red-userbox-blindness. --Deathphoenix 05:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Ultracoolxxx blocked

I just did my first block ever (yay me!) of Ultracoolxxx (talk · contribs) for repeated vandalism. He was warned and blocked back in September, took a break, and then today created Bomber Dream which I speedied. I then blocked him for a month, given that he was a repeat vandal. I figure he's unrepentant and although I didn't warn him this time around, he can't say he didn't know it would be coming. Was that too harsh? howcheng {chat} 00:49, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

restore edit history

I merged and edited Template:Numismatics and Template:Numismatic infobox. When I was done, I requested that numismatic infobox be deleted, and it was. I thought it would be confusing to have two templates around for the same purpose. I was not aware that templates could have redirects, and didn't think of preserving the edit history, most of which is at numismatic infobox. Anyway, can someone either merge the edit history of numismatic infobox into numismatics, or undelete it so I can make it a redirect, or otherwise fix my mistake? Thanks. Ingrid 02:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Done. (In the future, requests like this are more properly placed at WP:DRV.) —Cryptic (talk) 04:06, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

қазақша

I've noticed that on the Interwiki link, the link to the Kazakh Misplaced Pages is displayed as "қазақша". Wouldn't it make more sense to display it as "Қазақша"? Waynem 03:28, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism on Jeffrey Vernon Merkey, legal threats

I've blocked 67.177.35.222 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) for a month for persistent vandalism of Jeffrey Vernon Merkey and for making legal threats. I'm fairly sure he's the same person as 67.177.35.211 (talk · contribs), and may be Jeffery Merkey himself. --Carnildo 07:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

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