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Guergis's position on same-sex marriage

Here's the exact quote from The Varsity:

When the Varsity asked what they would do if they ever had to vote on the issue of same-sex marriage, they all said they would be in favour of it.

"I believe in the right to choose," said the PC's Helena Guergis, "so I would be voting in favour of it."

Which of us was paraphrasing, again? CJCurrie 21:03, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

A couple of points to my interlocutor:

(i) Many provincial candidates were posed questions about same-sex marriage during the 2003 campaign. The fact that there was no proposed provincial legislation at the time wasn't especially relevant -- the recent Ontario court decision approving same-sex marriage had made it an "issue of the day". The party leaders were questioned on the subject, as were candidates in numerous ridings.

(ii) It's true that Guergis was not quoted as saying, "I support same-sex marriage" in so many words. My considered view, however, is that the statement "I would be voting in favour of it" carries essentially the same meaning, when uttered in response to a direct question on same-sex marriage. The wording of the Varsity article doesn't appear to allow much leeway on this point. CJCurrie 22:16, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

My two cents

It seems that CJCurrie's version checks out: the Varsity did report this. I will show a larger portion of the article below to show that CJCurrie is not misrepresenting or misinterpreting the article:

When the Varsity asked what they would do if they ever had to vote on the issue of same-sex marriage, they all said they would be in favour of it.

"I believe in the right to choose," said the PC's Helena Guergis, "so I would be voting in favour of it."

"I have absolutely no problem with supporting same-sex marriages," said the Liberal's Nellie Pedro.

The rest of the candidates made similar comments.

That is clear. The only question is whether the Varsity got it wrong, and mixed up Guergis's comments on another issue with that on SSM. This is possible, but evidence would have to be provided for other editors to accept this position, e.g., other statements that she made during that election. Ground Zero 22:25, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Addendum

I've discovered the following quote, from another Varsity article covering the same event:

"During question period, all five candidates supported same sex marriage rights, but the unanimity ended there." CJCurrie 22:39, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Guergis's background

Again another error on Misplaced Pages - Ms. Guergis is NOT GREEK. Lets see if you fools can figure this out! You should be careful you may find yourselves slapped with a law suit or two! (posted by User:24.157.185.17)

You know ... a while ago, I saw a list of Indo-Canadian candidates in the 2004 federal election, which was put together for an Indian newspaper. One of the names on the list was James Rajotte, a Conservative MP from Alberta whose actual background is French-Canadian. Mistakes like this crop up in *all* varieties of media, not just Misplaced Pages -- and they don't usually result in lawsuit threats from the "aggrieved" parties (though it's not really clear that this counts a "grievance" in any event). How many times has John Kerry been described as Irish, I wonder?

In any event, thank you for your correction to the Greek Canadian page. Readers should be aware, however, that the error in question had nothing to do with the information on Guergis's bio page, nor with the controversy in the previous section of this discussion page. CJCurrie 00:45, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

There is no mention anywhere about her mother or her mother's side of the family background, which was English.Birdie6 (talk) 21:48, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Pronounciation

Are you sure it's Hel-EE-na? She's actually introduced herself to me, and I thought she said He-LAY-na. Maybe I heard wrong. -- Earl Andrew - talk 02:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Election Data

I think there's a mistake in the part of the page with the grids showing how many votes Helena and the other candidates received in the 2006 and 2004 federal elections. Specifically, the title for both of them is 2006 elections. I've never edited a Wiki page, so I didn't want to cause any damage. Just wanted to point it out! Soylord (talk) 08:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)Soylord

"Happy f---ing birthday to me"

Did she really say that or are we being unnecessarily self-censoring? NorthernThunder (talk) 18:33, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Charlottetown Airport Incident

I think the section is waayyyy out of line the way it is currently referenced. An anon letter wtih several redacted areas doesnt even come close to passing Wiki:BLP. I'm not saying there arent reliable sources out there but die to BLP policy this stuff must come down now. And dont rush out saying find additional sources. Its not the job of those who find policy violations to try and make it right, its the job of the original contributer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.121.225.250 (talk) 22:13, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Ive reverted the section as follows because the Charlottetown airport incident was well reported and cited. I realize it may need some more work re: neutral POV but in light of today's reporting of Helena Guergis's exec assistant's anonymous letters to media outlets I don't think it is unreasonable to assume the same kind of interference from Guergis's office is occuring here on Misplaced Pages. In the future do not delete entire sections for no reason. Thankyou. DSatYVR (talk) 23:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the original. I am no fan of the Tories, but this hearsay is waaay out of line for an encyclopedia. Throwing a tantrum when about to miss your flight does not make you a child molester, and should not form the basis of an article about a Cabinet Minister, no matter how unpopular they might be in tabloid coverage.

Articles about living people should be a bit more charitable, and every sentance doesn't deserve inclusion in an encyclopedia.

Here's what I'd propose:

Guergis received considerable media attention following an "emotional" outburst when arriving late to the Charlottetown airport. An airport employee anonymously related the encounter to media, which was covered widely at the time. Guergis subsequently apologized, citing job stress.

The part about "no mention of criminal charges" is simple slander. Nobody is criminally charged for not wanting to remove their boots and then griping about how they're going to miss their flight. I mean, what possible law is broken here? Verbal abuse is also not accurate. She never directed an abusive statement to airport staff, only complained about her situation. 99.231.53.195 (talk) 18:33, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

The tone of the segment that includes all the specific quotes from the outburst is simply intolerable, even for any sitting minister, regardless of their unappealing politics. Guergis was a cabinet minister and was reelected. Politicians are human beings, and the fact that newspapers have gone tabloid does not justify this trash in Misplaced Pages. 99.231.53.195 (talk) 18:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but an anonymous letter that has not been verified by any media outlet ihave been able to find does not meet WIKI:BLP policy requirements. If you have reliable sources that are confirming the repotrs made in the letter then adding it back is fine. but relying on the sources that have been provided do not meet the policy standard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.108.31.34 (talk) 19:29, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I've added the citation Unsigned-Letter-Redacted back into the article. I note the reference was faxed to Wayne Easter an MP in Canada's parliament. Easter's name and fax number are part of the letter (look at the header of page 1 and 2). The letter also forms part of a CBC article located here. Both the MP and the news organization would determine the details of the letter be an accurate portrayal of the Guergis "emotional outburst" or they wouldn't have made the letter public at the risk of legal action. DSatYVR (talk) 18:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Phony letter writing campaign

I've reinserted the last 2 sentences and citations into the article. I'm not sure why they were deleted by 205.250.101.100. Looking for comments. DSatYVR (talk) 22:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Ms. Guergis’ executive assistant Jessica Craven, Ms. Craven’s mother Dawn Richards, constituency office staff member Valerie Knight, former riding association president Paul Shaw, and Bonnie Ainsworth an assistant to Ms. Guergis’ colleague, MP Patrick Brown allegedly engaged in a coordinated letter writing campaign to the local media praising the abilities and achievements of Guergis. None of the individuals disclosed their close association with the Conservative Minister. Guergis subsequently blamed Jessica Craven, declaring it was not appropriate for her to send letters to media without disclosing her identity. CTV reports Guergis has little support from the Conservative caucus or the PMO office and are hoping Guergis resigns. Opposition leaders have called for Guergis' resignation or for her to be fired by PM Stephen Harper.

Propose adding a sentence to say that a similar campaign of unattributed letters to the editor prompted Paul Reitsma to be ejected from the BC Legislature through a campaign to recall amassing the required number of signatures. 69.172.114.153 (talk) 19:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

You should know that BLP also applies to talk page discussions and private investigators. --JGGardiner (talk) 06:27, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Calm down, Mr. Gardiner. Deep breaths. If any of the claims made by the Toronto Star are in any way unsubstantiated or libelous or if the Prime Minister in any way defamed Ms. Guergis by announcing in the House that he had removed her from caucus and that the RCMP had been contacted, then I'm sure Mr. Jaffir and Ms. Guergis have already taken appropriate legal action and they will be vindicated in court. It's only been a week. They may be just waiting for the right time to do it. Mardiste (talk) 00:26, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

While I might normally appreciate your condescension, it is misplaced here. My comment was a reply to one from Mr. Grant, which he since removed, inadvertently making it appear that I was responding to the anon above. My comment was in fact not even in this section, one which I frankly had not bothered to read. No apology is necessary. --JGGardiner (talk) 07:18, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Biased,one-sided Content, maybe?

Maybe I'm missing something, but why has this article not included any of the RS material which brings into question/challenges the veracity of all the recent allegations made against Guergis? and $13 million in debt are 4 day old articles?? Is it a "Weight" issue? I just added 3 sentences but more work on the NPOV aspect needs to be done, I think. Mr.Grantevans2 (talk) 21:21, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

In all likelyhood because nobody's gotten around to it. Feel free to update the article using these sources. Resolute 23:36, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

1. "Unsigned Letter". www.scribd.com. Retrieved 2010-02-25.
2. "Liberal Party of Canada » Minister Guergis must step down". www.liberal.ca. Retrieved 2010-04-01.
3. "Assistant wrote pro-Guergis letters to newspapers - CTV News". www.ctv.ca. Retrieved 2010-04-01.
4. "More trouble for embattled Tory minister - Winnipeg Free Press". www.winnipegfreepress.com. Retrieved 2010-04-01.
5. "Conservative Mminister Helena Guergis is under fire -- again". watch.ctv.ca. Retrieved 2010-04-01.
6. "CBC News - Toronto - Fire Guergis, say Ignatieff and Layton". cbc.ca. Retrieved 2010-04-01.

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