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Revision as of 04:03, 28 April 2010

This user knows that we can't stop here – this is bat country.

New user on the JP Talk Page

Since you were involved in the protection of the John Pershing article, please see my comments regarding the appearance of a "new" user with apparent knowledge of the article and Misplaced Pages policies and procedures. In my off-the-record view, this is quite obviously someone who has edited before creating this new account to bolster support. However, I can prove nothing and don't want to go against WP:AGF. We have just had that article become such a battlefield the last thing we need is a WP:SOCK or WP:MEAT issue. -OberRanks (talk) 20:04, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Hm, after reading their explanation probably best just to give them the benefit of the doubt, AGF, and see how it goes. –xeno 20:20, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

It might not be a bad idea to run an ip trace on this. You will notice on the user talk page who appeared right away to "welcome" the new user. I have to be very careful here in what I say because I do not want to go against good faith and accuse without evidence. I might be wrong and this might be exactly as explained - but, this is just a little bit too convenient, especially since this user's views are now being cited to place disputed material back in the article . To get right down to it, I think it is a sockpuppet account and I think you know who I think it is a sockpuppet of. Can you check it out? If I am wrong, deepest apologies. -OberRanks (talk) 17:56, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

You'll have to file at WP:SPI and present your evidence. It's fairly minor, but I do note they are signing right next to the full stop at the end of their comment ''(.~~~~)'', which isn't common. I will be fairly disappointed if the person you are hinting at turns to be the one running the account. I hope it isn't. –xeno 18:02, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Mmmm, the matter of the signing post is of extreme interest. However, I probably will let this one lie for now. I did a close examination of the various posts and there is some grammar and syntax difference between the two user's methods of writing so it might not be the same person. Obviously, if this new user reappears, supporting any and everything that the other one does then I sure there would be a good case. But for now, its not worth it since no disruption has been attempted. -OberRanks (talk) 20:04, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I came to your talk page to seek your advice on something else, and just saw that. And I'm pretty goddamn mad. (Not at you, of course.) In the first place, I have never done anything in secret here. What really pisses me off, is all of the bending over backwards I have done over the past few weeks, to be both civil and appropriate. And what infuriates me, is that OberRanks would come to your talk page and do this, rather than asking me directly. "I think it's a sockpuppet account, and you know who I think it is a sock puppet of"? Are you kidding me? You have my full permission, blessing, and even insistence to investigate this fully. And then I sure as hell hope there's going to be some form of punishment for his falsely accusing me of sockpuppetry.Mk5384 (talk) 14:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Back to why I was here in the first place...

On the John Pershing page, user Aunt Entropy posted a comment that I had made on the talk page of Genesis Creation myth. (Please take a look.) It was completely unrelated to the Pershing issues, and as such, deliberately misleading. I removed it, stated that I had removed it, gave my reasons, and notified the user who posted it. OberRanks (who else?) raised a fuss about this, and I wanted to make sure that I was within my rights to do this.Mk5384 (talk) 14:55, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, nothing in WP:TPG would preclude such a line of argument. If you feel it is irrelevant, you could rebut or ask the user to refactor. –xeno 15:57, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Damn right I appeared right away to welcome (without quotations) the new user. In the first place, that's what we're supposed to do. Secondly, the very first thing that OberRanks did was to attack this poor person. He violated AGF, NPA, and "don't bite the newcomers" all at once. "Mmmm, the matter of the signing post is of extreme interest"? Who in the hell does he think he is? Then he did "a close examination", and discovered "grammar and syntax differences"? Is he a goddamn detective? And he's decided to let this lie? Sorry, but I will not. Please tell me how to pursue this.Mk5384 (talk) 15:02, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I just should point out that noone has made any formal accusations here. Xeno and I were having a off-the-record discussion about this just because of how it looked. At face value, it looked very suspicious and that is why we were talking about it. But, at the end of the day, there is no evidence, no disruption, and no further activity from this account. This is exactly why this has gone nowhere except on this talk page. I am sorry it upset you. This was posted nowhere except here and no charges were ever made on any formal noticeboard. In short - Xeno and I were just talking about it. -OberRanks (talk) 15:07, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

If you wanted an off the record discussion, you should have used private e-mail. You accused me of sockpuppetry, and it was not "off the record". I could care less if there's been activity from the account. You can be damn sure that no one's going to accuse me of anything based on what another user does or dosen't do. And there will be formal charges made. And there is no "we" having this discussion. You came here, and engaged Xeno. When you say, "Xeno and I were having a conversation because of how it looked", that's horseshit. Please don't try to pretend that Xeno was concerned about this.Mk5384 (talk) 15:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

You should be aware that I do not use private e-mail on Misplaced Pages due a case under my old account User:Husnock where several users sent e-mails threatening my family. Since then, I confine all my business on Misplaced Pages and avoid any outside contact or use of my real-world e-mail; there's just too many crazy people out there. Again, sorry you're mad. If you would like to file charges, feel free to do so. I again stress that since this was two users talking on a user page, and this never made it to any kind of noticeboard or the mainspace of an article, there probably wont be much done about it. BTW, Xeno, apologies for continuing to post on your talk page about this. -OberRanks (talk) 15:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Private e-mail, or not, don't pretend it was off the record, and don't pretend that Xeno was at all concerned about it.Mk5384 (talk) 15:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I noticed on the ANI thread that you said you will be busy. When you are free, please drop me a quick note, and let me know how best to handle this situation. As far as the sockpuppet thing, I'll report myself, if that's what I have to do to get this investigated.Mk5384 (talk) 16:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

And please take note that OberRanks is only "sorry that I'm mad". He is not sorry for his behaviour.Mk5384 (talk) 19:50, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

OberRanks was careful not to mention you by name, so really only you, me, OberRanks, and the lamppost would've known who s/he was talking about. There is always the chance on questioning about possible sockpuppetry to falsely accuse someone. I'm not really sure if this has ever been reconciled on Misplaced Pages: due to the wiki-model, most queries must be initiated on-wiki (i.e. at WP:SPI). Not being too familiar with SPI and checkuser processes, I'm not really sure what actions you would take over this grievance. –xeno 22:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Xeno, you know that I respect you, and I don't want to fill your time with trivial nonsense. Yes, OberRanks was careful not to mention me by name. He was also careful to make it very, very clear to whom he was referring. I have no idea who Kind Journalist is, or what his or her agenda is. I have posted what OberRanks said on Kind Journalist's talk page, and have gotten no response. All I do know, is that it isn't I, nor do I know this person. Again, I would like the sockpuppetry issue investigated.Mk5384 (talk) 08:15, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Please bear with me while I seek advice on this matter. –xeno 12:52, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

arbitrary break (Pershing)

FYI, xeno, I've reported this user here for a vareity of reasons and mentioned this thread as part of the problem. -OberRanks (talk) 13:39, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I've commented there. –xeno 13:41, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Of course, I'll bear with you. But in the meanwhile, OberRanks has resumed his daily trips to ANI to report me for some imaginary infraction, and it's really getting old. As long as he can somehow manage, at any cost, to keep the focus on me, he feels he won't have to answer for himself and his rulebreaking.Mk5384 (talk) 14:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I haven't heard back from the individual yet, but per Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Checkuser criteria and letters (perm) - in particular "C" under "When it might be appropriate " (the vote is not closed) and the third row for "When it is usually not appropriate" basically indicate that checkuser would not be appropriate here. If you wish to initiate a grievance against OberRanks over this situation, WP:ANI would be the venue - however, I would suggest a "reboot" between you two; and either another attempt at mediation, or an {{RFCtag}} on the issue to gather more outside voices. –xeno 18:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, for the record, I totally knew OberRanks was referring to Mk5384, it's no secret. I guessed Mk5384 was his #1 suspect even before he implied it. I wasn't aware that I had to, and I'm doubtful that I really do, but I would sanction any investigation into the possible inseparability of my identity from Mk5384's, or any other user's. I would strongly encourage it, actually, since that seems to be what Mk5384 wants. I personally like the theatre and confusion of it all, but I would be (and have been) offended if someone else was mistaken for me, and I certainly wouldn't want someone else speaking for me, so to whatever ancient forces may be listening; investigate away.Kind Journalist (talk) 18:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for that, Kind Journalist. I realise that you find it humorous, and I too, would probably see the humor in it were it not for the seriousness of the situation.Mk5384 (talk) 22:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Xeno, please tell me what can be done about OberRanks and his SP nonsense. He has now began to bully yet another new user. Kind Journalist and I have both agreed to a full investigation. I can't speak for the latest user, but something has to be done. Talk about "don't bite the newcomers". The first thing that these poor people have to do here is defend themselves against accusations of sockpuppetry. Now, at ANI, Baseball Bugs has jumped on OR's SP wagon. Please get this investigation underway. OberRanks has now changed his accusations to meatpuppetry. Per Misplaced Pages's very definition, he has accused me of recruiting users to post on the Pershing talk page to support my position. Like the SP charge, this is 100 % false. I do not know either of these users in the most remote way. PLEASE investigate this. Even if OR and BB won't wind up being punished, they at least need to be made to stop their attacks.Mk5384 (talk) 04:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I asked another, more active, checkuser to comment here but I still don't think a check would be run in this case. I also opined at the ANI thread in a new subsection. If you feel it necessary, you could initiate an ANI thread about OberRanks; but I think you would both do well to stop arguing at eachother, (comment on content, not contributors) and start arguing to 'the audience'. –xeno 13:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Look- I understand what you're saying. However, the fact is that OberRanks has both falesly accused me, here, and elsewhere, and has told outright lies about me at ANI. This has moved far beyond the scope of AGF, and I don't see why I should lie down and take it.Mk5384 (talk) 15:07, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Then, by all means, gather your diffs and report to ANI. I still think you would both do well to de-escalate and focus on the content issue - otherwise you might find yourselves in a bidirectional interaction ban which would probably require a topic ban from the Pershing article to be effective. –xeno 15:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't plan on pursuing this any further. The two sock accounts appear to have no connection to MK and the admin board topic went unanswered by most administrators. In the end, that turned out to be a good thing since it looks like they let us "battle it out" and meanwhile new users arrived on the Pershing article to voice their opinions. My standard response to any further charges to MK will simply be that this is a dead issue and I plan no further dispute or debate. -OberRanks (talk) 15:19, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Indeed; I was just coming here to add a "see " to my above comment. –xeno 15:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Of course, it went unanswered. That's because it's just the latest round of your trivial nonsense, mixed with outright lies. You created this entire mess, and in typical fashion, instead of apologising, you choose to just walk away. Some "soldier" you are!Mk5384 (talk) 22:45, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The content issue is being dealt with at RFC so hopefully this matter will soon be concluded. I would ask you both to remain civil; and perhaps simply stop commenting at/about eachother. –xeno 22:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

BTW, Xeno, TY for fixing the RfC I put on the talk page. I had a feeling I hadn't done it right, but had to leave.Mk5384 (talk) 22:56, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

No worries. Cheers, –xeno 22:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good to me too, Xeno. I would ask you to maybe point out to MK that cracks about my military service are clearing violating WP:NPA. The diffs are adding up on that - so far, I've found 4 clear cases of inappropriate comments about my service in the United States armed forces. -OberRanks (talk) 23:13, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

This is why I asked him to remain civil in my reply to him. WP:CIV is a policy I rarely (if ever) enforce, due to various reasons that I won't go into at this time; however, you may post at WP:WQA if he doesn't stop (though I hope he will). –xeno 23:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand. I simply don't believe that OberRanks is in the military. Is he honestly trying to imply that I'm not entitled to my opinion? And, Xeno; with all due respect, what about OR, and his myriad personal attacks on me?Mk5384 (talk) 04:01, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Question re: HJ Mitchell RFA comment

Wasn't really on topic for the RFA, but I'm interested in your reasoning on this. For me, blindly reverting because "the crat did it, it must be right" is the exact sort of judging edits beacause of who made them, and not impartially examining the issue, that causes problems around here. IMHO If anything the context makes it more troubling, not less? Your thoughts?--Cube lurker (talk) 18:18, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't necessarily trying to dissuade anyone from opposing over it, but merely suggesting they review the background before doing so. Your question is an interesting one, I'll have to think about it. –xeno 18:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough.--Cube lurker (talk) 18:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

After thinking about it, you're probably right; however, I still think if this is the only time the user ever misused rollback that it would not cause me to oppose. –xeno 13:45, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

We have a limited number of opportunities to answer the question, how will this person use the tools in a matter of a degree of complexity. We can look past those examples. We just can't be surprised later.--Cube lurker (talk) 15:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

bot's turn, soon...

• WT:ACTOR#search and replace patterns

I floated an objections-check there three days ago, and there are none. I also note this comment by WHL, which is accepting of the notion. I believe this is fine to proceed with. Let me know if you'd like me to dig up more examples or if I can otherwise help. Cheers, Jack Merridew 22:59, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Just going to put a fake future timestamp to keep this here for a while. –xeno 04:20, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

AWB

Hi, as you seem to know a lot about getting the most out of AWB can I ask you some questions. As I'm very much a newbie with the tool.

• I'd like to work on all articles that have {{WikiProject Chess}} on the talk page. I been looking for an export of Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:WikiProject_Chess, but as stuck on how to export.
• Is it possible to do a find on a talk page and a replace on an article page or vice-versa. For example can you find "living=yes" on the talk page and add Category:Living people on the article page?
• Where do I find options to look at page size? I don't see them and was under the impression you where able using AWB to create a report for WP:SONGS.

Thanks for any help you get give. Regards, SunCreator 13:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

1. Use AWB to build a list of "What transcludes page". Alternatively, build from the category Category:WikiProject Chess articles. –xeno 13:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
2. To do this, you would use Special:Export, paste the list of talk pages, use AWB's database scanner on the resultant .XML dump to search for "living=yes", and then convert the results to mainspace pages. (That being said, there are bots that trawl for living people to do the needful on both the article and the talk page - you'll probably find not much work to do).
3. In the database scanner.

–xeno 13:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Off to check it out :) Regards, SunCreator 13:17, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The bot(s?) that scan for living people? I'm only aware of database reports. The reason I was looking to do this with AWB is because there seems to be quite a few! It's not difficult to manually find bio's that are not tagged as living people. Regards, SunCreator 13:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The appropriately named User:LivingBot =) (...though it appears it hasn't been doing this for a little while??? so maybe disregard my above note) –xeno 13:41, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Good link. So now I'm thinking that Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests_for_approval/LivingBot_10 puts living=yes on the talk page, so unlikely that looking for living=yes would find missing Category:Living people from the article. So checking that might be fruitless. Regards, SunCreator 13:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

There's other bots that do this as well, and as I said, LivingBot appears not to be doing those living tasks as often so you might find work to be done after all. –xeno 13:52, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

your edit to my talkpage (strange AWB bug)

Has basically deleted everything apart from your message. Off2riorob (talk) 15:56, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Careful with that AWB

I don't think that this edit can be what you intended!   pablo_hablo. 15:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah thank you. No worries, apart for the people at AWB, ta. Off2riorob (talk) 16:00, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks both, for the note. Very strange bug, I will look into this right away. Also Durova's . –xeno 16:02, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Reported @ Misplaced Pages talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Bugs#AWB blanks some talk pages before appending a notice. –xeno 16:55, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Trollish remarks/harassment

Hello, Xeno. On my talk page, there is a certain user Wispanow (talk · contribs) who keeps posting trollish remark and harassing me (thrice today already~!), should I take this to ANI or just a note from you would do? Thoughts? --Dave 18:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

You want the user to stop posting to your talk page? –xeno 18:36, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I just want Dave1185 to stop his harassment. Wispanow (talk) 18:37, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps Dave1185 should go ← and you should go → and everyone will be happy? –xeno 18:39, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Well, since his remarks are nothing short of harassing me despite me having disengaged from him, what are the other options available, if I may ask? Also, note that for the past 30 minutes or so, he's been "haunting" my talk page, while I have left his alone, without any prejudice. What gives? --Dave 18:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• I guess you could post to ANI. But may be best to wait and see if Wispanow takes my advice. –xeno 18:42, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Point taken, last chance given. FWIW, I'm going remove his trollish remark on my talk page but if he does it again, its ANI for him this time. Cheers~! --Dave 18:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• I suppose as a parting word of advice, disengaging usually involves stop calling eachother trollish =) –xeno 18:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Nothing trollish about him, its his remarks that are. Focus on the content, not the editor... I remember this clearly. Cheers~! --Dave 18:52, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Splitting hairs, imo. –xeno 18:56, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• If Dave1185 don´t stops his Trollish remarks/harassment, i will take him to ANI. I doubt he would listen to such simple request but who knows? Wispanow (talk) 18:57, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Xeno, see what I mean now? I'm going to debus now per WP:DENY, toodles~! --Dave 19:00, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Just a little respect? Is this possible? Wispanow (talk) 19:08, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

My talk page

I understand why you removed this link since it's redundant since I'm already on the talk page. What I don't understand is what you're getting at in the edit summary. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:17, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The image is licensed under cc-by-sa which requires attribution to the author. Typically attribution for images is provided by linking back to the image page; so changing the link breaks the chain-of-attribution. Don't worry: I know this is a fairly unknown fact and you didn't do it purposely. I fear that, despite my recent change, top icon has probably lead many, many users to violate image licenses unawares. –xeno 22:18, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I think I got it from another user's page and didn't know there was any "license" associated with it. What is non-free content doing here anyway? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:34, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

It's free (freely licensed), but requires attribution. (Versus public domain which is free and doesn't.) –xeno 22:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

So, other than having it removed from one's page, what's the penalty for failing to attribute? Should I send 25 cents to the author? :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

heh. I think you should write out on your talk page, 100 times, "I will not violate the licenses of cc-by-sa images." –xeno 23:13, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I could do you one better. I could do it 128 times. >:) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I feel special

Finally, I create an article that doesn't get deleted. I feel special, here it is.--Ezekiel 7:19 01:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)