Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:03, 17 May 2010

Essays

It's new! It's exciting! It's an idea whose time came months ago: The Tags and Boxes Player's Guide Continuation: The Demotion Idea. If RFA is "broken," let's not make it FUBAR: The RFA Derby It's newer! It's not exciting! Essay on Wiki Cults of Personality My attempt at impersonating Marshal MacLuhan: IRC considered Blocklogz, A Wikiwebi Comix: My first attempt at hip artwerkx. Oh, more IRC bashing from an IRC hater, etc. You know -- just whining from a luzer.: People are still getting blocked by "unanimous" IRC consent. So You Wanna Be An Edit Warrior? An essay on how to tell if you may already have the qualifications to be an edit warrior and not even know it!

New: User:Kosebamse/IRC explains pretty well why Misplaced Pages lost three of its most serious content contributors to salve the egos of some few people and save the playtime of those same few people. The "IRC RfAr": An explanation of "What happened" during the IRC arbitration case, and why it cost Misplaced Pages far, far more than it gave. The long winded analysis of "civility," with a short and succinct page to follow

New Messages

Talk archives

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Massages

For the children

For the many readers, there is a new blog entry. (If this makes no sense to you, then ignore it.) Geogre (talk) 10:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

For the adult-ering

I would like input from the people who have seen my ideas for how to form a council to advise on the future. I've written some up, and I've sent them to a few people via e-mail. Should I post them here? Geogre (talk) 18:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm interested too, Geogre -- please post here (or shoot me an e-mail). We seem to be coming unglued rather badly, at least in the matter of governance, and I fear the process is accelerating. Antandrus (talk) 19:12, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Initially, I was concerned that my name is too "big." I don't mean that I am, but rather that there are people who will oppose anything simply if my name is near it. I had preferred the ideas to come out anonymously or from several directions, because I think they're good (well, I would) and should answer our needs without introducing new griefs. I'll post 'em here by tomorrow, I suppose, and, wiki-style, leave them for anyone to adapt as they see fit. Geogre (talk) 21:09, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I've noticed, at least in the past three years or so, that popularity on Misplaced Pages negatively correlates with content contribution, and sometimes even with integrity. But don't quote me: I'm just a nasty old fool. And people skilled with words are not always popular, for we are after all writing an encyclopedia, where words are important, and envy is more implacable than hatred (La Rochefoucauld was right about everything). But I'll shut up now. Antandrus (talk) 21:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, see below for the big kahuna idea. I really, really don't care who gets credit for it. Let Kelly Martin take credit for it, if she wants, so long as they do get a policy council and get it in something like what I've described. You know, I was reflecting, the other day, when I was explaining why I don't need Misplaced Pages and it doesn't need me anymore, that it's not the same thing as it was when I heard a call on National Public Radio for over-educated, under-employed people to add stuff. I remember hearing that, when I was working as a librarian in a closed library. I thought it was genius that they were taking advantage of all the ABD's and grad students in the world, but those people are now the ones Misplaced Pages doesn't want. -Bot operators with less personal skill than their creation are "mediators," and "cool" is a long comment. Theses are all original research. Footnotes dominate here, where they don't even exist in academia, and people expect a citation to "the Earth is the third planet from the sun." O tempore, O mores. (But John Gay said envy's a sharper spur than pay for wits; it's a cudgel for those without wit.) Geogre (talk) 22:08, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

How to get and structure an advisory council

What you will need for this project: One Misplaced Pages, an estimate of a representative sample of active editors, and several stewards. You will also need an Initiator. That's YOU, and hopefully you are plural, not singular.

1. Outline a set of criteria that would make a person qualified -- experience with all elements of Misplaced Pages, breadth of edits, calm, intelligence. Think about the criteria very, very carefully and word them even more carefully. This is the one place to be excruciatingly careful, to get a great deal of input, and to be sure that the end goal is always in mind. That goal is wise policy, nothing else.

Why: Criteria keep people from wandering, and most people will be more honest, if they're given qualities to assess than if they're asked who they think is best. It's one of those paradoxes of evaluation that's pretty well known in business and education. This is why, for example, most employee and educational assessments are structured.

2. Ask editors to recommend someone other than themselves according to those criteria, rating the person on a 1-10 on each. The recommendations go to a group of coordinators or the stewards. They are not posted openly, and any person advocating or discussing voting or canvassing for members to the council will be in violation of WP:CANVAS, including on IRC and e-mail. We will have to rely upon honor, but Misplaced Pages was founded on such principles.

Why: Obvious, really. The idea is not to be competing, but rather looking for elements of trust. This cuts down on some of the, "Oh, well, that person is evil" stuff. Obviously, it leaves big weaknesses, but step 3 can help forefend. Additionally, prior and future attempts stall because of politics and personalities and self-love and self-importance. Provided that alternate accounts are not involved, this should avoid that to some degree, and since these are simply sent in rather than posted publicly, it will help. We don't want cadres and factions and points of view trying to fight. We want wise policy and we want trust. Have people assess for someone, not against.

3. Get a list of the top 60 finishers and then make them candidates for consideration listed on a namespace page by the stewards. There will be positively no statements by the candidates, and no oppose votes. Instead, there will be a two week assessment period, during which editors will, again using the criteria, give 1-10 scores on the various criteria for the sixty persons listed.

3a. Selection will not be a balance of oppose and support or anything so compromised. Instead, the stewards will have determined a representative sample of the editing population and divided that by ten. No candidate will be successful without an aggregate score above that mark (this functioning like quorum).

3b. If a person sees a very serious reason for disqualification, he or she will inform the stewards and coordinators. Disqualification criteria are that the person will be likely to act in a private, national, or special interest rather than a wide, international, or community interest. Disqualification will have nothing to do with "conflict" or "drama" or even "policy violations" of the candidate, as it is not up to the stewards or coordinators to tell the project who it trusts. However, if a person has a vested interest or a conflict of interest or has evidence of a private desire that trumps the general, then that would be a reason for disqualification.

3c. The coordinators and stewards simply tabulate the scores. All parties are prohibited from revealing or discussing results on any medium until the final 60 are posted.

Why: This council will not have "power" to harm or help people, so the idea that a person on it will get to be important is silly. When matters are "tied" in the minds of the stewards and coordinators, the presumption should be for safety/disqualification, but the criteria must be solely oriented toward communal/private interest and wisdom/folly. A wise thought from an unpleasant person is worth a dozen banal platitudes. Secrecy is vital, because any hints about how things will going, especially on non-portable, non-transparent media like IRC and e-mail, will result in "votes" and hate fests.

4. The result of the assessment will be a council of TWENTY people. Of the twenty, five will serve at a time for one month periods. Membership will rotate every month.

Why: This may be the most vital part of the plan. By having the groups rotate, it prevents personalities from dominating, so no one person can bully or dominate the rest. Additionally, it keeps one person or five people from becoming "important" or thinking they have power of any sort. All of the anxiety about the council being a "government" or being "power" or being a "revolution" should be put to bed instantly by the knowledge that it will be a continually shifting set of persons.

5. Method: The council should appoint or seek representatives to speak for separate viewpoints on a given issue. These "champions" or representatives will present arguments for their position, arguments against alternative positions, along with careful rebuttals of claims against their position. They will not involve themselves in direct, interlined conversation with champions/representatives of other points of view on council pages. The council will review all cases, plus any volunteer cases ("amicus briefs"), and submit questions to champions. They will then fashion their own policy recommendation(s).

Why: Again, we've seen death by argument too many times to count, and we especially see the routine "forest for the trees" sort of argument that Misplaced Pages is famous for. No one gets anywhere when discussing policy because every single person needs to offer his opinion, even if it's almost identical to the twenty opinions just above. All of the "me too" and the "yeah but" stuff gets so thick that no one can support anyone or any thing. If the council wants to actually review and fashion policy recommendations (only recommendations), then it needs to basically research policy alternatives. They can find the passionate true believers of the sides and let them get all the best ideas from their side together and speak with one voice, and then they can also listen to anyone who walks by who happens to have thought about things. Additionally, many times our best thinking is not found among the advocates, because people have gone away from an issue in disgust. Open the issue of infoboxes, and you'll see hundreds of editors who hate them but gave up arguing. The point is that the "champion" method and the "amicus" system allows clear presentation and consideration for the council.

6. When the council concludes its deliberations, it makes a policy recommendation to Misplaced Pages that Misplaced Pages must approve. It is not automatically policy, but it is also not for arguing about. It is an up or down vote, with a presumption of approval. This means that any proposal that garners quorum and an approval rate of 67% or more will be adopted.

Why: If this is a thing where the council makes a big RFC, the result will be "no consensus" to everything. Instead, the council should get a bit of a break, so that a council recommendation simply needs approval (say a 2/3rds majority, with quorum in place). If it goes to Village Pump where every person gets a brand new opinion, then we'll have every person trying to speak for the novelty of speaking, and then we'll get reiteration, and then....

What to do with these?

Use 'em. Claim 'em as your idea, if you want. I don't care. I just think it's a good idea, and I think it's a damn sight better than ArbCom picking their favorite warriors or votes or some other rot. Tell me, honestly, if I haven't avoided the problems.

The point is, there are ways of doing these things, people, if we just stop thinking in terms of power and appointing ourselves demigods. Geogre (talk) 21:59, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that Geogre - I've pasted it to , on my way out.......--Joopercoopers (talk) 17:34, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I hope it does some good. I don't care about the credit, but it seems to me that one of the reasons Misplaced Pages has been doomed is that the project is a good deal more socially adventurous than the people at it. While it does all kinds of interesting things to notions of authority and control, they keep looking for authority and control. It's as if they're here, but they don't believe in it.

If we managed to get 100,000 articles and to move up to the top 20 in Alexa with just people and no freaking out about power, then I'm going to bet we can negotiate among ourselves to find the possible and impossible solutions for policy, too, so long as no one gets to be in charge. (There are two ways to win. One is a dictator. The other is a monastery. I've never heard of a monastery accidentally wiping out the population of a country before.) Geogre (talk) 19:08, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. Of course all the people here exist in the real world within structures of power and authority - more acutely for the kids of course, so it's hardly a surprise that they bring shackles of the mind with them to this place. Look forward to your paper G - buzz me when it's published will you? --Joopercoopers (talk) 19:43, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess I gave too much of a preview, there, but, of course, that's what it's all about. The historical moment. No one is to be blamed for being in a historical moment, but when the reason they never look above and beyond it is neediness and personal psychology, it can get really distasteful. I would love to have real surveys of Misplaced Pages administrators to make my case, but no one can get such surveys. Anyway, I'm writing, forever writing, and the thing is a monster. It's taking forever to get down, and then it will take a while to trim and dress up, and then I'll have to find the right outlet for it. I'll let you know, though. Geogre (talk) 00:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Don't these paradigm shifts usually have some kind of Charismatic Leader, some agent of change? Or at least, some voices in the wind, from the same direction? Cometh the hour, cometh the man. Unfortunately we're still waiting for the man. up to Lexington......hmmm hmmm. Your fundamental material for the historical moment though, is still pretty much the same homo sapien of 200,000 years ago. "Fred.F.Stone likes hunting, screwing, acceptance and problem solving for profit, will gladly bash neighbour in pursuance of these, but recently finds more profit in cooperation." Whatever the future holds, it would be surprising if it wasn't affected by some abstracts of those fundamentals. In short, to overcome neediness and personal psychology, aren't crowds usually invited to put them aside in favour of he 'lofty purpose'? WP might have the lofty purpose, but somehow it rewards the needy and sick - hardly Darwinian, but perhaps the societal aspects of this place do have a use after all. Joopercoopers (talk) 00:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

As I told a friend, recently, I have reception aesthetics dentures, but they're fitted on Marxist gums. The great man theory's problem is that, after he chases all your women around, he inevitably turns insipid or nasty. The odd thing is that the Great Man is, interestingly, not at home in a real Darwinian model, and yet it seems to fit so well with our concepts of the "primitive" that we forget that every time, in history, that we see a great man arise, he is promising to lead us boldly to the future, to clear away the brush of the past and make the trains run on time (by changing the time tables to match their departure and arrivals).

I'll have to go with e-mail on the rewards of neediness. I think Misplaced Pages is curiously designed for that. There is a particularity about this project that attracts and promotes particular sets of psychological profiles that are very ill suited to analysis. In essence, I think Misplaced Pages is a second life, and people who are looking for a chance to reconstruct and who are seeking recompense for the wounds and grievances of the first life are going to devote their energies toward the reconstruction and mirroring of the social orders that "went wrong" in reality. Unlike Second Life, Misplaced Pages is an actual do-over for a good many people, and therefore one has varying degrees of attraction based on varying degrees of "wrong" suffered. Geogre (talk) 10:29, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about the 'great man' not being at home in the Darwinian model. Certainly it worked for Genghis Khan - what percentage of Asia now carries his genes? 1 in 12? . It certainly didn't do JFK's chances of finding a date any harm either :-) An interesting question is, if Obama delivers on the promise invested in him, will that be a competitive advantage for his children? I'm not so sure about the inevitable corruption of 'great leaders' either (where's Luther King, Gandhi or Mandela in that model - apart from 2/3rds of them having the sense of timing to die at the 'right' moment?). My Grandparents are still firmly of the opinion, that without Churchill to demonstrate the bulldog spirit, to remind us of our national traits and to buck us up with brilliant rhetoric, we'd be lost by now. It's speculative of course, maybe we could have done better than the bad-tempered depressive alcoholic with a boy's-own-adventure sense of military strategy (the nation certainly thought so in peacetime), but leadership is not to be dismissed so glibly I think - that generation is still marked by the tangible excitement of having experienced a nation truly pulling together. Maybe what's really missing at WP is an external threat - but now I'm sounding like Rumsfeld - lawsuits anyone? In any event, it's not cohesion we need, but values embedded in the system that serve our purpose better - an encyclopaedia is a strange place to find systemic anti-intellectualism.

Really though, aren't we all fundamentally motivated by selfishness? Even if I devote my life to charity, I feel better, I'm rewarded in some way. I try to remember that about people's motives, it makes me generally less disappointed in people :-) The long term trouble with Marxism, in my v. humble and uniformed view, is it appeals to idealism. Idealism can sublimate these selfish desires in the short term, because the idea of being part of 'something new and consequential', works as a reward in itself, not to mention the reward of love/respect/acceptance from being part of the 'group'. But in the long term, we revert to more petty and prosaic behaviours. That doesn't deny though that lifting our heads once in a while and running after someone or some group with vision is an entirely useless pursuit. But, as you say Geogre, your essentially un-clubbable, so you'll probably see that differently to your ovine peers --Joopercoopers (talk) 13:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Sauce for a gander

There's a surprisingly interesting and cordial conversation going on here about reliable academic sources, which you might be interested in bringing your laser scalpel to. --Joopercoopers (talk) 18:44, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

I've tried, but the problem is that, although they're all on the right track, they're falling victim to Misplaced Pages argument. One can find exceptions to everything. There are always going to be peer reviewed bits of horse hockey, and there are going to be eminent people who lose their minds. The general guideline is sound, but once we start trying to use general guidelines as if they were predictive laws without employing individual consideration, it's hopeless. The problem is that we are never going to shed ourselves of someone trying to say, "Oh, but there are books supporting my crank view, and they're from academic presses." To see where things get really hot, look at the nationalism wars. The fringe science stuff is tame in comparison. In those cases, you have the most prestigious presses of two nations offering up officially sanctioned accounts that say opposing things, and then, here at Misplaced Pages, we get bloody battles, with both trying to throw fecal matter at the other's press and universities and nation. The Russian/Polish "arguments" are crimes in progress, for example, and they are entirely insoluble without saying, "Well, we're Anglo-Americans, and so we're going to use our nationalist points of view." Shy of that, there's practically nothing to say to distinguish or quiet them. Geogre (talk) 00:29, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Motion re alternate account

There is a motion at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Motions concerning your alternate account; you are invited to comment if you wish. --bainer (talk) 13:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Fielding

Regardless of what happens, I would like to have your input on Fielding related stuff. There are a few pages that you were directly involved in, and some others that your opinion would be important. I plan on finishing the later plays coming up this fall and try to produce the bulk of his major works (including some poems and the rest). The one priority coming up will be The Covent-Garden Journal‎. When I have a chance, I will be adding some more information on the literary criticism and other notable aspects in order to prepare it for GA level. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:50, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Could you please weigh in on the above discussion? I proposed adding some more about specific criticism and the such. AD cut it down and left some in. However, you may have some differing opinions from us on what would be effective or not. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Geogre_and_Risker

A request for arbitration has been filed. You may wish to make a statement. Durova 02:46, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

• Someone (I'm not sure who) once said "Don't let the bastards get you down" a motto I have always kept, so I recommend it. Unlike you, I only do poetry that I was compelled to learn in school, but I think many would do well to remember this "IF you can keep your head when all about you - Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, - If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you - But make allowance for their doubting too" and so on, I forget the rest, but I think the meaning is clear, and then my own favourite line "Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch" which is something you do very well! You see the other day, someone kindly fixed up this thing for me, which makes all the admins names on my watchlist appear blue, and do you know? - They are so in the majority, it has led me to the conclusion that not being an Admin is almost an affectation these days - rather like saying "look at me, I'm special" Funny how things turn out isn't it? Giano (talk) 21:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Arbitration motion: Geogre

I have just added Motion 3 calling for your de-sysopping. It is in your best interests to respond on the arbitration pages urgently to this and the other interests raised. I am sending you a copy of this message by email.  Roger Davies 08:33, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that once you have taken something from them (in this case - the tools) then they can threaten to take something away from you. Everyone who knows you, is 100% certain, beyond any possible doubt, that deceiving or building false concencus had never even crossed your too philosophical mind. In that respect, you are probably the mosy naively honest person on Misplaced Pages. The reasons you created Utgard were completely understandable and justified; they are also none of Durova and co's business. However, an ignorance of those facts has proven a source of long sought jubilation and glee to certain editors - and those whose most philosophical thoughts probably concern only their digestion and bowels. This is the crux of the problem, those who have their minds on higher things, seldom give sufficient thought to matters more base in appearance. Hence, you are in this predicament. It's not as though you use the tools - so if I were you, I would tell them where to stuff their bloody tools, but of course you are not me - which is why they are still whooping with such obscene joy as they seek to take from you and you remain silent. At least, this way, you have a dignity that others in this sorry case appear to lack. Giano (talk) 09:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• As silent types go, you are proving pretty affective. However, I and some others are having some problems here. Why has this very commonly known alternative account, known in the highest circles, suddenly become a problem, that needs such public and drastic attention? There seems to be a huge movement wanting you de-sysopped; you certainly seem to have attracted some once powerful people (a whole unprecedented platoon of ex-arbs, undermining the present ArbCom, anxious to see you disposed of) I am just wondering why they and so many others from a certain quarter of Misplaced Pages are demanding your downfall - As disciples of Machiavelli they are provincial and clumsy, but they are singing in unison almost like a heavenly choir - or at least an orchestrated body. Any ideas, you would like to share with us? Giano (talk) 21:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

• All I need to know is- did you use the "secondary" account to add to discussions/voting anyplace that your Geogre account was used. If not, then wheres the harm? If so... well that's a whole'nuther can o' worms. Good luck, because I've always appreciated your abilities/intellect. Best Regards, Hamster Sandwich (talk) 22:05, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Ego sum tristis

I have really enjoyed reading your work here, especially that which you've done on the older literature articles. I discovered the troubles you're having when I checked in on a case in which user:Abd had listed my username in his evidence. As you've now not edited since the case began, I'm afraid we may have lost you, and that makes me very sad, if true. While I hope it's not true, I just wanted to post a note here to let you know that your contributions here are greatly appreciated, by more people than you'll probably every know. As the thread topic says, Ego sum tristis. Unitanode 05:23, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• I do hope that those who clamored for his "administrative head" on a platter enjoy what they have wrought. UnitAnode 18:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to hear ...

Of your troubles. You have been kind to me in the past and very fair, and I wish you the best. Peter Damian (talk) 21:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Motion 4

Hello,

I've moved your latest statement to the new motion I've posted to propose that User:Utgard Loki be unblocked and available for your use as an alternate account, provided it is clearly identified as such. This is partly to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to read your statement given that the motions they were attached to will close shortly and it would have been archived along with them. — Coren  21:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Motion Passed

Hey Geogre, unfortunately the Arbitration Committee has passed a motion to desysop your account. You are free to re-apply through the usual channels. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Cbrown1023 talk 00:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Please note that another motion is also close to passing. Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

G'day Geogre

seems a bit trite to say 'hope you're well' - but I do, so there you go..... Anywhoo... I thought I'd come by here to let you know that I've put a note on Utgard's userpage mentioning the connection to this account - I felt that the template was a bit rude, so replaced it. The only place therefore that a 'geogre sock' template is in use is over at my userpage, where it's a sort of poor man's satire / comment on the whole situation - I'm thinking of being Spartacus on tuesdays, thursdays and saturdays, and Geogre on mondays, wednesdays and fridays. Sundays I'll pick a new and exciting 'master' account, and wear that label with pride, don't tell anyone, but I've always wanted to be SandyGeorgia ;-)

Doesn't really need saying, but you should obviously feel free to revert, edit, or whatever at Utgard's page - certainly if you feel my oar is getting in the way. Take care, and insert a genuine 'I hope you can rise above all this, because your contributions to the project, in various 'spaces', really are among the absolute finest' type statement here :-) Privatemusings (talk) 02:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I, too, wish to convey my sympathy to you—and my contempt to the rash, harsh punishment you've suffered, of course, without being afforded a chance to defend yourself. Orwellian process, from start to finish. El_C 09:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The AC is far too incompetent to do Orwellian. This was more like a Drumhead court-martial.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) (talk) 21:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

They're as full of promise and ultimate disappointment as New Labour, we're clearly into the Brown phase. --Joopercoopers (talk) 22:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I think everyone is mistaken about Orwell. Normally, people responding in such a manner to such a situation would say Kafkaesque. Ottava Rima (talk) 22:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

An offer

There is an offer for you at Misplaced Pages:RFAR#Statement_from_Durova. Contact me if you wish to pursue it. Durova 14:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you just knit him a nice sweater instead...or maybe a scarf?--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) (talk) 21:55, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Or a noose. --Joopercoopers (talk) 21:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Only if he accepts her nomination for RfA.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) (talk) 22:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

(EC) Now, now, Joopers, I'm sure Durova didn't mean her essay to sound at all conditional or baiting. KillerChihuahuaAdvice 22:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Really? Because it sounded awfully to me like Durova has offered to cut her toenails if Geogre cuts his throat - now that's reciprocity folk! --Joopercoopers (talk) 22:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Well she should cut hers first, since they keep tearing holes in her favorite moccasins.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) (talk) 22:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Given the level of almost paranoid distrust displayed by some individuals on this page, I can well understand why you might like to avoid the politics of this place. And, yes, I'm fairly sure that you and some others might count me as one of the "enemy" as well. I did and do think that it might be a good idea for you to be subject to a confirmation vote, primarily for two reasons (1) the fact that the two names could be seen by those with no prior knowledge of the dual identity as being two individuals taking part in one discussion, and (2) far more importantly, as a form of, well, warning, to any admin in the future who might take recourse to multiple accounts, and, like NYB said, probably by accident have eventually wound up using them for a purpose for which they were never initially intended, but which could be seen as being to some level problematic. Having said all that, I would also be honored to second (or third or whatever) your nomination for reconfirmation should that situation develop. John Carter (talk) 22:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Guys, Durova has to be allowed to disagree without being personally attacked. It was this vituperative atmosphere we've created around ourselves that caused Geogre to want another account in the first place. It would be great if we could learn from this that differences of opinion and criticism don't have to escalate into wikihounding and disrespect. We may be about to lose a really great contributor because of it. SlimVirgin 23:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It would seem the offer is being viewed with the distain it deserves, as an attempt to wash blood from stained sheets. I wonder if Risker whould have been given the same 'opportunity' if Durova had managed to bring her down as collateral damage. This is high politics of the kind Durova has been so careful to distance herself from since !!; so the slate can be forgiven and wiped clean. I think all that effort is ruined here. Ouch, opps. The self interest and politics here are so naked and obvious here, I have to agree with Geogre in that 'ye all bore me'. Ceoil (talk) 15:04, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Stallo

Given that the image was used on this very page, it seemed appropriate that we have an article about the things. So I've started off Stallo for you. Uncle G (talk) 01:20, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Motion Passed

Hello Geogre, just noting for the record that a new motion has passed relating to you at WP:AC/N On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, MBisanz 01:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

An impotent rogue speaks...

Per your comment at the arbcom case "Little did I know that such a collection of impotent rogues would gather to express their grave displeasure and sober defense of the letter of the law. Each of them united solely by the fact that, in the past, I had been instrumental in exposing his misdeeds ..." I would be grateful to know what misdeeds you imagine I have committed or that you have exposed. DuncanHill (talk) 15:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Sysop status

If you do seek to regain sysop status, as I have already said, I would be honored to be allowed to be one of your nominators. John Carter (talk) 14:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

This week's blog post

Honey, that is so beautifully written!

And some great quotes: "Ignorance is the mother of admiration"! Ha! :-D I'd never heard that one.

What's a divot? Bishonen | talk 21:13, 3 August 2009 (UTC).

'tis true. Reminded me of the much missed Alistair Cooke. (The beeb never did find a way to plug the gap he left and the ocean between us can only widen without it - How's your radio voice Geogre?). 'Replace your Divots' is parlance from that dreadful waste of a good walk, meaning clods of earth belted out with a driver. --Joopercoopers (talk) 21:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Indeed! Are we sharing this, with a link, or keeping it for ourselves? Giano (talk) 21:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Heel America Part One --Joopercoopers (talk) 21:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to correct you Joopers, but a driver is usually swung at a teed ball, so no divots there. Nitpickingly yours, Kosebamse (talk) 08:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

You've clearly not seen the rare occasions I've teed off. --Joopercoopers (talk) 21:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Apologies

I hope it's Ok with you, but I have made this edit to your user page it was upsetting some people and causing concern that the ritual drumming out of the regiment had not been performed. It's funny isn't it, how on this case the honour was drummed out with you. Giano (talk) 18:49, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I miss you

I miss you. :-( Bishonen | talk 00:37, 10 August 2009 (UTC).

I agree with the sentiment. At the risk of gushing, something I doubt Geogre appreciates much, I think he's the finest writer I've encountered in almost six years at this place. Geogre, be well; some of us do miss you more than you may ever know. Antandrus (talk) 00:39, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Eh what? I popped up merely to point you to this sensible proposal; can you really be gone? I hope it's merely a vacation. Come back rested and refreshed. -- Hoary (talk) 06:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:Hogarth-Southwark-Fair-1734.png

File:Hogarth-Southwark-Fair-1734.png is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Hogarth-Southwark-Fair-1734.png. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Misplaced Pages, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Misplaced Pages, in this case: ]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 17:52, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Invitation, if you're so inclined...

Hi Geogre.

I'm here to ask if you're interested in participating in a public discussion. I've been talking with some people about deletion processes around here, and we're talking about doing a moderated discussion for the next newsletter. The idea is that, although "inclusionist" and "deletionist" are clearly divisive terms when applied to people, they do represent certain archetypal Misplaced Pages philosophies.

We're thinking that it would be interesting, and perhaps bring out some good points for the community's rumination, if we have people meet in a discussion in order to articulate opposing perspectives on a number of questions. I know that you have written some meta-pages on the subject of deletion, and I wonder if you'd be interested in being a participant in such an event. I seem to have volunteered to be a mergist-minded moderator, and part of that gig involves looking for people who can eloquently express ideas about deleting and keeping articles. I thought of you.

Would you have any interest in participating in something like this? -GTBacchus 20:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Wait... you're gone? Oh hell. -GTBacchus 20:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

FAR Notice

I have nominated Oroonoko for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 17:41, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Restoration spectacular

Please see Talk:Restoration spectacular#4 years on as an informal FAR. Simply south (talk) 19:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Over three months

It's been over three months since you left, you can't allow this shower to drive you off for good.  Giano  19:35, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Colley Cibber FAR

I have nominated Colley Cibber for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Mm40 (talk) 03:03, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Jonathan Wild FAR

I have nominated Jonathan Wild for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Parrot of Doom 19:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry Comment in '07

I hate to dredge up the past, but I just wanted to make a comment on , where it was stated that is was almost assured that I was using sockpuppets. I just want to set the record straight that I wasn't -- the other user in question approached me while I was a developer and notified me --- that community is -very- hotheaded, but he wasn't a sockpuppet and I asked him repeatedly in private (which is against policy but I didn't want more trouble) to calm down as I did.

No hard feelings, just want to set the record straight.

Antman -- chat 10:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

A delectation of a page called Fashcool

Dear Georgre ... in 17:00, 12 June 2009, I put a contribution material on wikipedia called Fashcool but you, as an editor removed it, if you have any dubt that the information is incurrect, please visit the Fashcool Gallery in the folowing link. http://www.facebook.com/fashcool#/pages/Fashcool/8241702429?ref=ts

If the deletation due that I cant write about my work as cartoonist hope you can help me in doing so .

Ramzy taweel —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramzytaweel (talk • contribs) 08:07, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Afflatus

I have nominated Afflatus, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Afflatus. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Claritas (talk) 17:55, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

This nomination is quite incredible. I suggest you withdraw it immediatly.  Giacomo  18:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)