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	Six-Day War was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result September 28, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed March 12, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

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A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on June 5, 2004, June 5, 2005, and June 5, 2006.

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Mediation case

I just want to apprise everyone involved in this discussion that there now is a mediation case on the issue over at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-07-11/Six-Day War

I wasn't the one who submitted it, and I didn't notice it until now. It seems that the support lent so far is somewhat sparse. I hope it will be helpful towards a resolution. Shoplifter (talk) 22:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I submitted it. So far, it has not been helpful. I hope that situation changes. I don't know what is so difficult about just setting aside biases and having the article read neutrally, neither asserting the one view nor the other as absolute fact. I continue to fail to see any legitimate reason whatsoever that this article should not be made to comply with NPOV. Misplaced Pages policy demands it. I submitted it in the hopes that editors might help to ensure it remains neutral, but I've found no indication that those who replied have any interest in ensuring NPOV policy is adhered to in this case. JRHammond (talk) 03:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I think your recent additions are wise, and a very good way to solve the dispute. The lead now recognizes that there is an extensive use of the word "preemptive" in works describing the attack, while at the same time underlining the (undisputed) circumstances which contradicts Israel's claim of preemption. I, personally, have reservations about the word "widely" being used to describe the proliferation of the term, as I think the record shows a more moderate scholarly distribution. Nonetheless, for the purpose of successful mediation, I think this is fair resolution. I have, however, one remaining objection to the current lead: there is a significant value judgement made in saying that Nasser was using "war rhetoric" (which was not mentioned earlier in the lead, and thus confuses the reader) and that his actions were seen as "military posturing". As noted in footnote 24, “... all US intelligence... had characterized Nasser's troops in the Sinai as "defensive in nature". Whether or not this was the case should be investigated in the article, but the current phrasing pre-empts such a discussion by the use of unusourced terminology. Basically, it says that Nasser was the aggressor, without qualification. This could easily be changed to read more neutrally, as in "while Nasser had amassed troops along the border, and made <insert comments as an example of rhetoric representative of what was said>, Egypt denied planning...". This seems to me to be the WP:NPOV way to do it. Your thoughts? Shoplifter (talk) 15:42, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree. Although it seems someone has already edit out the "war rhetoric" bit. JRHammond (talk) 01:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

As the edit-warring behavior of a few editors continues, I've resubmitted for moderation, in order that Misplaced Pages policy may be enforced: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2010-07-25/Six-Day_War. JRHammond (talk) 08:11, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Lede 3rd Paragraph Dispute

As the protected status will expire tomorrow and the article will be again open for editing, I'd like to make sure that the edit warring doesn't begin again. I've expressed this elsewhere, but so far haven't gotten any response, so I'm adding a new section in the interests of getting feedback and hopefully establishing a consensus to "preempt" any further warring (pun intended). The 3rd paragraph currently reads:

On June 5, 1967, Israel launched what it subsequently described as a preemptive attack on Egypt. Initially, Israel falsely claimed at the U.N. Security Council that the Israeli attack had been in response to an attack by "Egyptian land and air forces". Israel subsequently claimed it had taken preemptive action because it believed an Egyptian attack was imminent, despite the fact that its own intelligence assessment was that, given Israel's military superiority, such an attack was highly unlikely; an assessment shared by the U.S. intelligence community. Egypt denied planning to attack Israel, saying the Israeli strike was not preemptive but an unwarranted and illegal act of aggression. Jordan, which had signed a mutual defence treaty with Egypt on May 30, then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.

The footnotes mess is a separate issue, discussed in a separate section. I'm concerned here with making sure the wording is acceptable to all. First, I'd like to get editors to respond expressing whether they approve or disapprove of the sentence: "On June 5, 1967, Israel launched what it subsequently described as a preemptive attack on Egypt." JRHammond (talk) 03:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve. It reads accurately and in a neutral manner. I'm content with this wording. Please approve or disapprove below this line -- if "disapprove", please explain your reasons and present a valid argument for why your own proposed wording would be better. JRHammond (talk) 03:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve. Phersu (talk) 14:05, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve. harlan (talk) 13:18, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve. Shoplifter (talk) 13:37, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve/Modify The lead was looking OK on NPOV issues, but needs a rewrite on its prose and other other WP:LEAD issues. I actually have free time over the next few days; I may tackle it. if I do, I'll rewrite in user space then post the final version here on Article Talk. That way no one will be shocked by sudden changes. • Ling.Nut 03:56, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

On second thought.... with all due respect to both parties: JRHammond's version is modestly closer to the mark than JiujitsuGuy's. However, now that I have had time to let it sink in, I do see the point that JRHammond's version makes the non-preemptive argument just a little too quickly and too emphatically. I would opt for something that dials down that side just a bit more... I'm gonna stop fixing references. Looking at peoples' behavior, it seems that the lead issue is a bit more urgent. I hope to have time tomorrow to write a version in my user space. I bear no ill will to any sides that may exist. I want a lead that is quite nearly dry, almost boring in its impartiality. Or if not boring, then at least unbiased... I really really have to log out until tomorrow, though. • Ling.Nut 15:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm open to suggestions on wording. However, the facts I added, surely you can agree, are very relevant. And if the facts lead you to the conclusion that the attack was non-preemptive, that is your own conclusion, not one that I put forth. So I don't really know what you mean by saying I made the "non-preemptive argument just a little too quickly and too emphatically." Facts are facts. JRHammond (talk) 00:29, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve/Modify. It is certainly an improvement. However, I'd rather have the sentence split up into two sentences, like this:

On June 5, 1967, Israel launched an attack on Egypt; Israel subsequently described the attack as being preemptive.

I think it's easier to read this way. --Frederico1234 (talk) 13:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Both are okay by me. JRHammond (talk) 15:11, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Secondly, I added: "Initially, Israel falsely claimed at the U.N. Security Council that the Israeli attack had been in response to an attack by "Egyptian land and air forces"... despite the fact that its own intelligence assessment was that, given Israel's military superiority, such an attack was highly unlikely; an assessment shared by the U.S. intelligence community." The bit where the ellipses is was not my work. Footnotes 31 and 32 are mine. I would refer people to the footnotes. Everyone here can verify the factual accuracy of my additions by going to the sources. Similarly, if anyone has any concerns or comments, please air them here before making changes. JRHammond (talk) 03:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve. It is factual, neutral, and verifiable, and adds important information for the context of this paragraph dealing with the claim that Israel's attack was "preemptive". Please express your approval or disapproval below, along with explanation. JRHammond (talk) 03:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve. Phersu (talk) 14:05, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve. harlan (talk) 13:18, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Approve. Shoplifter (talk) 13:37, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Neutral/Approve See above. • Ling.Nut 03:56, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

• I have invested a very large amount of time and energy fixing the format of the article in my user space – and have barely scratched the surface. I'm gonna move the whole thing en masse to article space when the block is lifted. Please do not edit in my user space... you can comment on my talk page. • Ling.Nut 05:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Ling Nut, consensus is achieved through the editing process and the quality of the arguments made during community discussions which take place on various public pages. You are not discussing or addressing JRHammond's concerns. I'd suggest that you join the mediation case and hold off on moving "the whole thing en masse to article space". That sounds like you've been privately planning a replacement page during the period of sysop-imposed editing restrictions. harlan (talk) 07:45, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I looked at Ling Nuts edits in his (or her) sandbox, and as far as I can tell, all he did was to clean up the footnotes. I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to say in reply to JRHammond that he has an alternative version regarding the facts of the article to insert once the protected status is lifted. Just some good ol' house-cleaning that everyone can agree on. Shoplifter (talk) 07:57, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I thank Ling Nut for taking the time to help clean up footnotes. However, I also thank Harlan for pointing out that my concerns are not being addressed here. I believe Ling Nut mistakenly posted the above in this section when the section above was the intended place for it. I would REALLY appreciate it if other editors would kindly respond and express approval or disapproval of the wording in question in the 3rd paragraph. I REALLY would like to prevent any further edit warring by such means. Thanks. JRHammond (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:50, 20 July 2010 (UTC).

"Avoiding an edit war" is probably impossible, unless some blocks and bans are handed down. The positions of pro-Arab and pro-Israel editors are diametrically opposed, and set in stone... the best you can try to do is merely state that one side says it was preemptive and the other does not. Misplaced Pages does not have the ability (as other sources do) to take a stance. • Ling.Nut 14:36, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

It might not be so "impossible" if you would actually just use this section according to its purpose and kindly comply with my request. Also, you appear to be unfamiliar with the discussion. Nobody -- NOBODY -- has suggested the article should state as fact that the attack was not preemptive. If you were familiar with the discussion, you would know that there is a majority of editors who agree both views should be presented neutrally, with neither expressed as fact, and there is a small fringe group of 2 or 3 editors who continually revert all attempts to implement the necessary changes to make the article NPOV compliant. Please familiarize with the discussion, and please express whether you approve or disapprove of the wording in question in the 3rd paragraph. Thanks. JRHammond (talk) 15:08, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Disapprove. Too much detail for the lead. --Frederico1234 (talk) 23:43, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The facts mentioned are in no way minor points to be made. They go right to the heart of the issue, so I think it's appropriate in the lede. I'd would to agree to a shorter 3rd para in the lede so long as this information is included in a discussion of the "preemptive" issue further in the article. I think it deserves its own section, so I propose we make that happen. I would write up a draft myself, but I won't have the time. Best I can do for now is contribute this bit from the current lede for it. JRHammond (talk) 01:15, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

If Israel only maintained the view that it had been attacked for a day(?) or so, then how is that not a minor point? --Frederico1234 (talk) 07:34, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

It's not a minor point because if Israel felt it's attack was justifiably "preemptive", why would they feel it necessary to lie about being attacked first? They claimed a false pretense for their attack. That is by no means insignificant. JRHammond (talk) 07:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Please read the source carefully, you will see Israel did not even say it had been "attacked". Which makes your point even stronger. Marokwitz (talk) 08:33, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Your grasping at straws, Marokwitz. It's uncontroversial that Israel initially claimed Egypt attacked first, as the U.N. record shows, as elsewhere in the documentary record, e.g.: "Each Side Accuses Other of Making First Assault", New York Times, June 5, 1967. JRHammond (talk) 07:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Disapprove The words "Israel falsely claimed..." are an original interpretation of a primary source. First of all the source doesn't say "attacked" , it says "moved against" which may refer to mobilization of troops. Secondly, the source doesn't say "falsly". If we add a strong word such as "falsly" , this must come with a proper citation. Also regarding the use of "claimed", see WP:CLAIM, especially in such volatile issues. Marokwitz (talk) 08:10, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

It is not an interpretation. It's a demonstrable fact that Israel claimed Egypt initiated the attack. It's also a fact that that was false. This is not controversial. JRHammond (talk) 07:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

intro

After all our discussions and much good and detailed work by editors, I see that we're now back to people reverting to earlier, less neutral versions of the intro. Please discuss proposed changes and seek consensus before making controversial changes to the article. Phersu (talk) 13:32, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

By "people" I see you mean Jiujitsuguy. I don't know the procedure, but it's high time we got together and made sure punitive action is taken against Jiujitsuguy if he continues this behavior. JRHammond (talk) 15:09, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

As I've mentioned before, I am looking into the issue. I will avoid sudden changes to the article, though I think it needs nontrivial changes. • Ling.Nut 06:32, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm mostly interested in sports and tried to steer clear of the IP area because I have a life and have no intereset in getting dragged into the mud with petty disputes over symantics. But i've been watching this back and forth argument and I gotta say that the third para of lead, under JRHammond's version is now pretty biased and unencyclopedic and it also reads poorly, Eric--Ericsmeer (talk) 03:35, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

<rant>Flagged revisions now.</rant> I'm working on the article, but not posting to Misplaced Pages yet. • Ling.Nut 04:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Ericsmeer, I reverted your changes as there is no consensus for them. Regarding the sentence "On June 5, 1967, Israel launched what is widely described as a preemptive attack on Egypt", please see the discussion here. Regarding the footnotes, please see this discussion. --Frederico1234 (talk) 06:31, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Ericsmeer, you speak of "consensus", so let me fill you in: There is agreement among a majority of editors that asserting one POV with regard to Israel's attack being "preemptive" as fact violates WP:NPOV. So this majority of editors have agreed that both views should be presented, with Misplaced Pages not endorsing either. So your explanation that you reverted it because there is no "consensus" is fallacious. One simply need to observe the fact that there is no consensus that the article should endorse the pro-Israeli POV -- quite the contrary -- in order to demonstrate your error, and to illustrate your double-standard. JRHammond (talk) 08:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

There is no consensus to delete the fact that it is widely described as a preventive strike. This is well established as it is amply stated by numerous international authoritative sources. Your biased version argues in the lede with this popular view of long standing. This is quite inappropriate for Misplaced Pages's rules and standards and in no way enjoys the support of editors.

As a matter of fact, as reported in the New York Times, Nasser said in his resignation speech during the war: "Early in May, our friends in the Soviet Union delivered intelligence information of a calculated intention by Israel to invade Syria. Acting on this information, we mobilized our forces in Sinai. But then on May 26 he added the Soviet Ambassador in Cairo at 3:30 AM delivered an urgent message from the Soviet government strongly requesting that the UAR not open an attack." Do you think that Kosygin was concerned over Israel's security? He was rather troubled that Nasser was gaining prestige and creating internal difficulties that would force the pro-Soviet Syrian government to rejoin the UAR. 79.177.97.225 (talk) 06:12, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

You just acknowledged it is a "popular view". That's quite right. It's a "view", not a fact. Therefore, stating it as fact blatantly violates WP:NPOV. If you have objections, state your objections here first and seek consensus or majority support for changes, as per WP:TALK and the guidelines for resolving disputes such as with the edit warring on 3rd para. JRHammond (talk) 17:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

My preliminary rewrite of the WP:LEAD is in my userspace

• My preliminary rewrite of the WP:LEAD is temporarily in my userspace at User:Ling.Nut/Sandbox. My main complaint with the current lead is that it.. really.. doesn't offer a bird's eye view; it gets way, way too bogged down in the minutiae of the "preemptive" debate from the very beginning. Those of us who are not preoccupied with whether or not the war was preemptive (I say that with sincerest apologies to all who hold strong personal beliefs on the subject, and sincerely ask your forgiveness if I have offended anyone) exit the lead feeling.. baffled by the sound and fury, and disappointed by the lack of clear summary.

Please do note:

1. As I said, it's preliminary. It ain't finished. For example, I need to tack on a reference or three (e.g., the bit about "preemptive" and "preventative" and "inadvertent" needs cites... I have them, just haven't finished yet...). Maybe other stuff too.
2. However, it's already kinda long. In theory there are still many more things that could be mentioned, but I'm reluctant to add any more info.
3. The whole "preemptive" issue is deferred until a later point in the article's body. Speaking frankly, I think much of the article needs to be rewritten.
4. This preliminary version severely disturbs the references in the article, creating a parade of red "cite error" warnings at the very bottom of the page. I left them unfixed. If people agree to copy this version to the article, it will also involve fixing many broken references.
5. Note the new image and caption in the infobox. That image of the soldiers by the wall will still be effective elsewhere in the article.

• That's all. Your input solicited.
• Mostly approve, as proposing editor. Forgive me for saying so, but it's much closer to the spirit of WP:LEAD than the current version. • Ling.Nut 18:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Comment you are talking about Israeli warning about closing the Straits of Tiran, but you never mentioned it was closed. That's why this text should be added to the lead:

"In May 1967 President Nasser ordered the UN peacekeeping forces out of the Sinai Peninsula, including the Suez Canal area. Despite Israeli objections in the United Nations, the peacekeepers were withdrawn and the Egyptian army took up positions on the Israeli border, closing the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping. These actions were key factors in the Israeli decision to launch a pre-emptive attack on Egypt in June 1967, and to capture the Sinai Peninsula to the Suez Canal." --Mbz1 (talk) 19:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

• Oops.. I was doing that while you were doing this. Look again. Thanks... oh the text you want added is too long and forms conclusions about causation. Conclusions are for the body text... if at all.. • Ling.Nut 19:23, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

OK. How about taking the word "hawkish" out of description of Moshe Dayan.--Mbz1 (talk) 19:27, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

In order to shorten the lead, we could drop the mention of Moshe Dayan altogether. Others may disagree, but I don't see the appointment of Dayan as that critical for neither the eruption nor the outcome of the war. Regarding the decision to go to war, there were simply other hawks in the Israeli government either way (not to mention the pressure from the generals). As for his impact on the outcome of the war —as an example— he ordered the IDF to avoid capturing the Gaza Strip and the Suez canal, but the IDF did so anyway. --Frederico1234 (talk) 19:55, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Mostly approve I think the choice to defer the preemtion-issue to the body of the text is a wise one. The issue is difficult to treat in a WP:NPOV manner, and additionally we really need to cut down on the length of the lead. The length is probably the biggest issue right now. --Frederico1234 (talk) 20:35, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I've had a second look at your sandbox. Some suggestions about how to reduce the length of the lead:

• Possibly remove the Samu incident or mention it very briefly.
• The claim that Israel was "hoping for a resolution without war" is dubious and should be removed. There were various voices in the Israeli government, some hoping to avoid the war, some pressing for immediate action and then some arguing for first acquiring the green light from Washington before making the attack.
• Drop "purely" in the sentence that say that Israel made "purely defensive military adjustments", as it is disputable.

Other suggestions:

• Move the sentence "Israel officially stated in 1957 that it would consider any miltary act closing the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping as a justification for war" down so it immediately precedes the related sentence "Between 18 and 20 May Israel repeated to the leading maritime powers, including France and Britain, its statement that it considered any closing of the Straits as cassus belli."

And an addition:

• Extend the sentence "On 14 May Nasser sent the first of what was to be a steady stream of Egyptian soldiers into the Sinai Peninsula" by stating that Nasser most probably believed (erroneously) that an Israeli attack on Syria was imminent. I believe this is pretty important in order to understand his subsequent actions.--Frederico1234 (talk) 23:37, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

• IMO the statement like this one "These factors, along with "the sacred history of the terrain on which it was fought" and "the failure of the international order to bring about what Arabs considered a just solution to the conflict", are cited by militant groups and scholars alike as a significant spur to the growth of Islamism in the Arab world" should be confirmed with much more than one offline source. Otherwise I mostly approve the new lead.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:03, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
• That's three "Mostly Approves", if you count mine, or two if you don't. Thanks. I will of course track down more refs, in time... • Ling.Nut 15:21, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Changes to Lede

I was going to suggest changes to current lede, but then noticed Ling.Nut has a proposed sweeping rewrite of it going, so chose to go with that version instead. My comments are lengthy, so I thought it deserved a new section so as not to clutter the section Ling.Nut began on that. My two cents:

• These territorial gains left Israel three and half times larger than its original size, and greatly reduced its geographic vulnerability to attack from neighboring states.

As the idea is to be general in the lede and more specific further into the article, as User:Frederico1234 has suggested, I think the current version is better. Additionally, I don't think it's fitting to mention a major consequence for Israel without stating the consequence of those same land gains for the inhabitants of those occupied territories. This is currently: "The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day." However, I don't like this either, as it's a sever understatement as is. Suggest:

"The war is considered a watershed event and has had consequences that continue to greatly affect the geopolitics of the region."

• In addition to "the loss of territories, military hardware, human life and economic resources," Arabs and the Islamic world were "sunk with a feeling of shame, humiliation, frustration that followed the defeat."

If this was a journal article, I'd have no problem with this, but I don't think it's appropriate to dirctly quote in this manner. For a Wiki page, I would suggest no reader should ever have to click to see the footnote to know where the quote comes from. Yet here, I'm sure we'd all agree adding a "writes so-and-so" would be silly. So suggest paraphrasing:

"The loss of lives, territory, military hardware, and economic resources was a humiliating defeat."

• The defeat and humiliation of the war, along with "the sacred history of the terrain on which it was fought" and "the failure of the international order to bring about what Arabs considered a just solution to the conflict", are cited by militant groups (including Hamas) and scholars alike as a significant spur to the growth of Islamism in the Arab world.

Following on above comment, suggest this be removed altogether. Such discussion can follow later in article.

• Israel officially stated in 1957 that it would consider any miltary act closing the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping as a justification for war.

This is an abrupt shift back in time, with no segue. Suggest:

"The geopolitical conditions leading to war had been set in place many years beforehand."

Following on that suggestion, I suggest 57 is not an appropriate starting point, because it neglects the British, French, Israeli attack on Egypt just the year prior, which is extremely important, including in regard to Egyptian decisionmaking. This would also do, because the next sentence refers to "the 1956 war", without explanation as to what that was. Suggest:

"In 1956, Britain, France, and Israel conspired to attack Egypt after Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal. During the war tha ensured, Israel invaded and occupied the Sinai Peninsula, but was forced to withdraw the following year under pressure from the U.S. and international community."

Then can follow the sentence about Israel's warning on Tiran

• Though surrounded by nations hostile to its existence, its primary military antagonist in the years following the 1956 war was Syria, whereas Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt pursued a "policy of virtual withdrawal" from the Arab-Israeli conflicts.

Disapprove. Strongly suggest deletion or revision and removal to body. First of all, this neglects the issue of Fatah attacks for which Israel held Jordan responsible, leading up to Samu, etc. And discussion of details of Egypt's mililtary strategy should be in body, not lede.

• Nine days later, Israel attacked the city of Samu in Jordan, a stronghold of the Palestinian group Fatah, which Syria had been using as a military proxy, and which had been carrying out its attacks through Jordanian territory.

Disapprove. Strongly. Following on above comment, any reader unfamiliar would read this and go, "Whaa...???" First of all, what evidence is there the Fatah raids were backed by the Syrian government? I'm very familir with the claim, but know of no evidence for it. It would be fine to say Israel held Syria responsible for the raids or that Israel accused Syria of backing the raids.

• King Hussein of Jordan, who until that time had avoided direct confrontation with Nasser of Egypt, then began a propaganda campaign (in conjunction with Faisal of Saudi Arabia) marked by " verbal assault" against Nasser.

I disapprove of describing rhetoric as "propaganda campaign". If we use such descriptions, it would have to apply universally -- such as by similiarly describing Israel's rhetoric about the imminent threat of destruction. I certainly agree with this, but would nevertheless suggest this violates WP:NPOV. The point could be made without directly describing it as such. Suggest:

"King Hussein of Jordan publically accused Nasser of failing to come to Jordan's defense, a humiliation which Nasser responded to by increasing his bellicose rhetoric towards Israel."

• On 14 May Nasser sent the first of what was to be a steady stream of Egyptian soldiers into the Sinai Peninsula, approaching Israel's southern border.

Disapprove. Strongly to: "...approaching Israel's southern border". Naturally, any move of troops from west of the canal into the Sinai is movement towards the border with Israel. This goes without saying. It unnecessarily implies aggressive intent.

• Israel then began a period of elevated tension that was to last for three weeks, known as Ha-Hamtana ("the waiting"), making no provocative statements, and purely defensive military adjustments, while hoping for a resolution without war.

Disapprove. STRONGLY. Oren is, to say the least, a questionable source for supporting such a judgment (it's a judgment, not a fact). As Norman Finkelstein has observed:

Even as Oren claims that Israel never "even contemplated" anything beyond neutralizing the Egyptian military threat, he reports that in the weeks leading up to the June War (or before hostilities actually broke out on the Jordanian and Syrian fronts), different IDF commanders expected to "conquer Gaza"; "strike Egypt, and then we'll fight Syria and Jordan as well"; "advanc into Sinai and ... to the Jordan headwaters in the north and the Latrun corridor leading to Jerusalem"...

Oren goes on offering from Oren's own account where his own facts contradict his conclusions ("Abba Eban With Footnoes", Journal of Palestine Studies). Misplaced Pages should not be giving the Israeli ambassador to the U.S.'s version of the '67 war. It's fine to use facts from his book, but using his judgments and presenting those as facts is absolutely a violation of WP:NPOV.

• Two days later Nasser requested and rapidly obtained the withdrawal of the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) from Egyptian soil, and the following day Egyptian forces replaced UN positions at the strategically vital point of Sharm el-Sheikh, which overlooks the Straits of Tiran.

Disapprove. Overly detailed. State the main point in lede, that Nasser expelled UNEF. Discussion of details can follow in body. Also, it needs to be mentioned that Israel rejected suggestiosn to have UNEF stationed on its side of the border. This is a serious omission.

• On 1 June Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening the cabinet to include members of the opposition parties, and the hawkish Moshe Dayan was made Israeli Defense Minister.

Disapprove. Agree with I believe it was User:Frederico1234 that "hawkish" should be deleted here.

• On 4 June the decision was made to go to war, followed the next day by Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise airstrike by Israel that was the opening of the Six-Day War.

Suggest "next morning" rather than "next day". The attack was launched at around 7am.

• Though few material facts of the war are in dispute, the motivations of the national leaders (particularly Nasser) has been the subject of much speculation.

Disapprove. STRONGLY. First clause questionable. And why are the motivations of Nasser particularly more subject to debate than Israel's?

• Both sides denied wishing to initiate armed conflict, and yet both have been described as carrying out plans to conquer the other.

Disapprove. Weak wording. Suggest: "Both sides denied aggressive intent while accused the other of instigating hostilities"

• In addition, the Six Day War has been described as a preemptive war, a preventative war, and an "inadvertent war".

Disapprove. Both "preemptive" and "preventative" (should be "preventive") are Israeli POV. It's doesn't do to mention two versions of the Israeli POV without also mentioning the other POV, which is that it was "aggressive" war. Why is "inadvertent war" in quotation marks but the other descriptions not?

• The end bit on other names for the war typically is something that goes right at the beginning of the lede in most WP articles, and I suggest moving it there, both for this reason and because "Six Day War" is actually the Israeli name for it -- Arabs don't call it that. Not saying article title needs changing, but if the article itself is going to be called "Six Day War", it would do to add this caveat right up front, as is typical for WP articles. JRHammond (talk) 03:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

• I'll try to take the time to examine the details of your objections, but suffice it to say that I probably disagree with most or perhaps even all of the objections that pertain to the general approach taken.. I will (tentatively) grant you all factual disagreements, and try to examine them. But the WP:LEAD should function almost as a stand-alone article. To repeat myself a bit more clearly, even at the risk of being perhaps a bit impolite (although that is not my intention, and I hope it is not perceived that way), the current version is a nearly-incoherent grab- bag of shtuff that leaves the uninitiated, uninformed reader with basically no idea whatsoever what the Six Day War was, why it happened, and what its consequences were. Before a few days or perhaps a week ago, I had little or no idea what the Six Day War was. Rather than being a weakness, I would suggest that it is my greatest strength in this discussion. I believe I bring the reader's perspective to the table, rather than the dedicated editor's. I strongly believe that all of the participants in this discussion are over-familiar with this topic, and have fallen into the trap of skipping over or barely mentioning extremely important general facts because you take them for granted as common knowledge, and instead, obsessing on finer-grained points that are far more controversial. • Ling.Nut 04:00, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. I would respectfully suggest, however, that those with extensive knowledge of the subject should put together the basic draft. Your input, as a more recent study, would be very helpful to point out where any confusion arises to the general reader due to lack of background knowledge and context. I'm not suggesting to start from scratch again, but as a person whose been studying it off and on for many years, I think my suggestions are valuable and my objections to certain things valid. JRHammond (talk) 08:01, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Not to put too fine a point on it (I hope), but I'm afraid that by asking me to take a secondary role and letting others (by implication, that is, yourself) draft the changes you've backed me into a corner and forced me to be blunt. Just as JujitsuGuy operates from a patently pro-Israel POV, it seems to me that your comments always and everywhere defend and exculpate Arab individuals and nations. I'm afraid that sitting back and letting you outline the lead would quite likely result in a subtle pro-Arab POV, mainly by selection of topics to leave in a take out, but also by degree of emphasis placed on various events etc. Please forgive me for pointing this out. I sincerely apologize if it offends you. I intend to continue working, and am very open to input from everyone (I intend to incorporate some of your comments and suggestions in my workspace; I've just been overwhelmed with real-life responsibilities). I look forward to working together with you to create a truly NPOV article that meets Misplaced Pages's needs. • Ling.Nut 08:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Ling.Nut, I never suggested I should be the one to outline the lead. I had harlan in mind, actually, when I said that. My exact words were "those with extensive knowledge of the subject should put together the basic draft". I didn't say me. I also said, "I'm not suggesting to start from scratch again, but as a person whose been studying it off and on for many years, I think my suggestions are valuable and my objections to certain things valid." If you think my suggestions are not valuable or my objections invalid, you are welcome to explain your reasons. I'm more than happy to hear them out and work with you to get this thing improved and NPOV compliant. JRHammond (talk) 09:40, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

• In addition to the general reply above, I have attempted a point-by-point treatment, first of Frederico's remarks, then JRHammond's. Sorry so long-winded.
• Frederico1234:

• drop "hawkish" from Dayan (JRHammond agrees), or rmv Dayan alogther.

• I dropped "hawkish"... Oren 2002 states that none of Israeli preparations for war was so pivotal as the appointment of Dayan, on page 148 (perhaps largely for morale reasons). Other sources repeatedly refer to this. I can drop Dayan, but I think it bears discussion.

• remove or shorten text about Samu.

• I disagree. Samu probably was not directly the cause of the war, but it was probably the cause of the heightened tensions that funneled into the war.

• drop "hoping for a resolution without war"; "purely defensive" is disputable/dubious.

• dropped "hoping for a resolution without war"; changed " purely defensive military adjustments" to "no overtly aggressive military adjustments". I realize that the latter may still be unacceptable, but I am trying to move in a more moderate direction. It is clear to me that Israel wanted to avoid at least the appearance of wanting to go to war (and at least at that time its leaders may in fact have wanted to avoid war altogether ; note inner disagreements etc.).

• "Nasser most probably believed (erroneously) that an Israeli attack on Syria was imminent". Oh, in additon to granting Misplaced Pages an unwarranted and unacceptable omniscience, this assertion is highly disputable (although it is in fact what Nasser himself repeatedly asserted). Closing the Straits was, in my mind, the same as starting the war. Why did Nasser do it? He may have wanted war, thinking his Egyptian forces (supplemented by others) would prevail. He may have thought war would not come, possibly (but not likely) because he thought the Israelis had no stomach for it, but far more likely because he thought the US would intervene and prevent it. Other explanations may be suggested as well.

I withdrew the suggestion. It was original research from my side. Sorry for that. --Frederico1234 (talk) 07:02, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

• JRHammond:

• "As the idea is to be general in the lede", drop the following:

1. "These territorial gains left Israel..."
2. "The defeat and humiliation of the war, along with"

• Strongly disagree. Please do make a nice cup of something pleasant to drink, find a quiet place to sit, and try a thought experiment: imagine that you are a highly intelligent but utterly uninformed newbie to this topic. You click on the link to Six Day War. What do you want to see? I would suggest that by far the most important fact that you are craving is a clear explanation of the consequences of the war. The consequences are (by another name) the bulk of the relevance to today's uninformed and uninvolved reader.

• "'Israel officially stated in 1957' is an abrupt shift back in time..."

• Mildly disagree. It is very important to clearly establish context, albeit with going all the way back into ancient history. I think the issue of the Straits bears more immediate relevance than the Suez Crisis (note however that because of your objections, I added a wikilink to the Suez Crisis article, to help unpack it a bit)... I will think about this passage, though. Another possibility is that this paragraph may need to be moved en masse to another position.

• Add ""In 1956, Britain, France, and Israel conspired..."

• Strongly disagree, though I am not taking any position on whether your statement is factually correct or incorrect. Rather, I again think that the Straits issue is the touchstone for the lead's historical context.

• Dispute "Fatah, which Syria had been using as a military proxy"

• Granted. I think this issue of "Fatah as Syrian proxy" requires more research, and tentatively feel that saying "Israel held Syria responsible for the raids" is probably acceptable.

• "'policy of virtual withdrawal' is a discussion of details of Egypt's military strategy, and should be in body text"

• Mildly disagree, on two points. First, I was quite taken aback when I read that Nasser essentially wasn't heavily involved in engaging the Israelis — neither verbally nor militarily — before mid-1967, almost wholly because he was preoccupied with Yemen, Saudi Arabia, etc. This point is very counter-intuitive; the thought runs something like, "Don't people who go to war probably have a lot of friction beforehand?" Second, the statement in my lead is not referring to military strategy, though I probably did not make that at all clear. I am more referring to the lack of a "war of words" until very late in the sequence (although the war of words became, from the Israeli perspective, bitter indeed at about that time... the Burrowes & Douglas article, and Cohen as well, are fascinating reads... and many, many sources note Nasser's bombastic pre-war speeches as a crucial pre-war point.. so much so that I think these things may need to be mentioned; will consider).

• Disapprove Strongly of: "...approaching Israel's southern border". Naturally, any move of troops from west of the canal into the Sinai is movement towards the border with Israel. This goes without saying; doesn't imply aggression"

• Disagree again. Once again, I suggest that uninformed readers may have no idea of the geography of the region. The troop movements may not have had aggressive intent, but this question of intent is not mentioned. It will be discussed in body text.

• Disapprove STRONGLY of "Israel then began a period of elevated tension.. the waiting... defensive"

• See my remarks in the context (above) of Frederico's similar statements.

• needs to be mentioned that Israel rejected suggestions to have UNEF stationed on its side of the border

• That can be done.

• Though few material facts of the war are in dispute, the motivations of the national leaders (particularly Nasser) has been the subject of much speculation.

• The only dispute of material facts regards the size of the Egyptian forces in the Sinai; see "Stumbling Decidedly into the Six-Day War" by Roland Popp as a key text. This issue, however, is very clearly meat that must be deferred until body text. As for singling out Nasser, everyone is puzzled as to why the hell he closed the Straits in the face of explicit statements that doing so would be cassus belli. See my response to Frederico above. But... I think... it my be possible to omit singling out Nasser. Yes.

• "Both sides denied wishing to initiate" is weak wording.

• This is an implementation detail, and certainly open to improvement.

• Hey, did I miss anything? If so, it was unintentional. Your input solicited. • Ling.Nut 06:07, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Will read discussion and get back, but for now explaining my edit just now: I've repeatedly invited editors to state any objections to the wording of the 3rd para, and to avoid edit warring to get majority approval for edits before making them, as per WP:TALK. Editors making changes have not done so, and I've restored to a version that had approval, pending discussion of revisions.

It is an uncontroversial fact that Israel falsely claimed that Egypt had attacked first. Israel officially informed the U.N. that "Egyptian land and air forces have moved against Israel and Israel forces are now engaged in repelling the Egyptian forces." (S/PV.1347/Rev.1, June 5, 1967).

As for the suggestion that a source needs to be provided that states Egypt did not attack first, this is a request to prove a negative. It's unnecessary, because absolutely nobody argues that Egypt did so. Which is understandable, since there's no evidence otherwise. It's completely uncontroversial that Egypt did not do so, that this claim is false. If Merkowitz wants to challenge that, let him present evidence of his affirmative assertion that Egypt attacked first. It's not my burden of proof to prove a negative. This is uncontroversial.

On WP:CLAIM, I'm fine with "Israel subsequently said it had taken preemptive action because it believed an Egyptian attack was imminent", so left that edit without reverting it. JRHammond (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:55, 26 July 2010 (UTC).

Thanks for taking the time to thoroughly go through my suggestions, Ling.Nut. I think we're close to agreement on most points, so I'll just reiterate a few things where I see we may be in disagreement:

• Samu should remain in the lede. It would be a greivous omission not to mention it, at the very least briefly.

• It's fine to list consequences, but it's not fine to list consequence for Israel (territorial expansion) but not for Palestinians (under illegal military occupation for over 4 decades). So include consequences from both POV.

• It is a greivous omission to start the background to the war at 1957, because this ignores Israel's attack on Egypt the year before, which was EXTREMELY relevant for understanding Egypt's decision making process and otherwise EXTREMELY crucial context for understanding '67. I'm fine with revising my suggested wording if you don't like it, but this information absolutely should be in the lede's brief historical background of the war. JRHammond (talk) 08:12, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

• I have made some changes to my version of the lead, to reflect the comments above by JRHammond & Frederico1234. One sticking point that I haven't touched is the verbiage about Fatah being a Syrian proxy. Don't misunderstand. I'm not putting my foot down and saying that it must stay; I just have had absolutely no time to look into the matter enough to satisfy myself. Please consider that passage in particular to be tentative. Your input welcomed. • Ling.Nut 05:20, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for all your hard work, Ling.Nut. Apologies for not getting back sooner. I was blocked for 55 hours, ostensibly for "edit warring", for implementing the agreed version of the 3rd para pending further discussion and revision and undoing reverts implemented without discussion or peer approval, despite repeated reasonable requests to resolve the problem through the Talk page. I'm going to leave editing for others, as it's proven futile for me to try to improve the article with my own edits. I'll focus instead on helping Ling.Nut get his new lede implemented. This version is a huge improvement, and I think is coming together quite nicely. I have a few further objections/suggestions:

1) "These territorial gains left Israel three and half times larger than its original size..."

I strongly object to this wording. This suggests Israel's territory expanded, and the assumption seems to be that there was annexation rather than occupation. Yet it's an uncontroversial point of fact under international law that the acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible, and the Israeli occupation and colonization illegal. This is reflected in UN res 242 and numerous subsequent resolutions. Suggest:

• "This left Israel in control of three in a half times more territory than it had under the 1949 Armistice Lines."

• This is a legal distinction, and I have no understanding of its ramifications. I'm willing to buy into your verbiage for the present, but please be aware that it could go back if it becomes some sort of sticking point. • Ling.Nut 09:15, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Understood. I'm more than happy to discuss it further and revise as necessary to come to a consensus. This is my strongest objection to the current version, so if I put my efforts into one thing, it would be this. JRHammond (talk) 02:19, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

2) "Two days later Nasser requested and rapidly obtained the withdrawal of UNEF troops from Egyptian territory, and the following day Egyptian forces replaced UN positions at the strategically vital point of Sharm el-Sheikh, which overlooks the geographically and politically vital Straits of Tiran."

Suggest adding after this:

• "Israel rejected proposals to have UNEF restationed on its side of the border."

This is extremely relevant for the context, and particularly with regard to the discussion of whether the war was "preemptive" or not. Had Israel truly feared an Egyptian attack, it could very well have accepted the UNEF buffer, yet it refused. Why? If this fact is not mentioned in the lede, it should at the very least be mentioned in the body of the article in the section on that topic. Forgive me if I overlooked it, but I didn't notice it there scanning through.

• It will very, very definitely be in the body text, and maybe in the lead. After we all finish the lead together, I plan to dive straight into the analysis of the start of the war. However, the lead is already really long.

3) "Though few material facts of the war are in dispute, the motivations and intentions of the national leaders on both sides has been the subject of much speculation and debate."

Minor grammar error: "have" not "has". Plural subject.

• Tks

4) "The Six Day War has been characterized as a preemptive war, an "inadvertent war", and an action designed to preserve the credibility of Israel's deterrence strategy, as well as other things of a more controversial nature."

To what characterization(s) does the last clause refer? JRHammond (talk) 04:21, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

• That would be Foxbats over Dimona. • Ling.Nut 09:15, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Gotcha. JRHammond (talk) 02:19, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

• Sigh. As per suggestions by User:Geometry guy in my sandbox talk page here, I now suggest we drop the entire second paragraph ("Though surrounded by nations..."). Yes, yes. Yes I know. I know that all of the stuff in that paragraph is absolutely crucial to understanding the genesis of the war. I believe that, and others of you do too. But the lead is just... too... darn... long already, and I think we do need an extremely terse summary of the actual conflict. There are currently five paragraphs (already too long). If we drop the second, then move the third ("On 14 May 1967 Nasser..") up to the second slot, then write a new paragraph about the battle and make it the third paragraph, we would still have five paragraphs, which would still perhaps be too long (though I think perhaps it might be OK), but it would be a big step in the correct direction. Your comments invited. • Ling.Nut 05:30, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ling.Nut, I may be able to help you summarize the key points in condensed version. I don't have time to work on it now, but the goal would be to not drop the entire second paragraph. Please keep it for now, and I'll try to work on that soon. JRHammond (talk) 09:40, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

User:Ling.Nut has got his Sandbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Ling.Nut/Sandbox) rewrite coming together. We've been working together on it and swapping ideas and suggestions, and I'm pretty happy with what he's got. My principle and perhaps only remaining concern right now is the concluding sentence in the lede:

• "The unresolved political status of the Palestinian territories and their inhabitants, plus the concurrent refugee problem, are central issues of the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict."

I don't think "unresolved political status" is a good phrase, because while true from a certain point of view, this could be interpreted by unfamiliar readers as meaning the territories are disputed, which is not the case. I've proposed a few alternatives:

• "Another lasting consequence of the war that has had enormous repercussions and which helped establish the Six Day War as a watershed event in the Middle East was the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory, which continues to this day."

• "Another consequence that established the Six Day War as a watershed event in the Middle East is the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories."

• "The Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories and its repercussions for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is another consequence that established the Six Day War as a watershed event in the Middle East."

Would like other editors' input on this. My main concern here is that to note consequences of the war in the lede but NOT mention the occupation would be a huge error of omission, since one could very easily argue this is the single most consequential result of the war, with incalculable repercussions, and not only for just the Middle East. JRHammond (talk) 11:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

• I think "watershed event" is kinda cliche'• Ling.Nut 22:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't care about that exact phrase being used one way or the other, but the point is to emphasize that it was an event that shaped the history of the region in a major way, even to this day. JRHammond (talk) 08:49, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

effects on US-Israel relationship

There should be something on the war's effects on the US-Israel relationship. Before 1967, the U.S. did support Israel in some ways, but the support was still kind of at arms length -- and the U.S. government was especially careful to avoid any appearance of a direct US-Israel military alliance. The war changed all that, and the previous U.S. reluctance to be seen to be too close to Israel vanished. Also, the general American opinion of the Arabs in "front-line" states declined precipitously, since the contrast between their grandiose bombastic bloodthirsty threats before the war (about how they would easily and effortlessly throw the Jews into the sea etc. etc.) and their overall rather pathetic combat performance during the war was not considered too impressive... AnonMoos (talk) 11:47, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Of course the impact on the US relationship will be in there somewhere... eventually... thanks... • Ling.Nut 19:42, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Following on the above suggestion, I would add that Johnson's renewal of arms shipments to Israel and some of the Arab states and the reasons for that decision should be discussed. JRHammond (talk) 08:13, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Lameness

I see that the metaphor wars are continuing. That's unfortunate given the amount of effort people are clearly making on the talk page and elsewhere to improve the article, hammer out issues etc. Maybe the article needs protection again, I don't know, but what I will say is "On June 5, 1967, the powder keg exploded when "....we're not having powder kegs surely ?

Also, this may have been discussed and I missed it but is the Reiter quote below used in Note 4 the best there is from that paper ? It's intriguing as a quote but I want to know more. I don't have access to the entire article.

• "While he and I agree that World War I and the Six Day War are preemptive, we code six cases differently." Reiter, Dan. "Exploding the Powder Keg Myth: Preemptive Wars Almost Never Happen", International Security, Vol. 20, No. 2 (Autumn, 1995), pp. 5–34.

I mention it because in the same paper he also says the following which expands on it a bit and seems clearer. He may have said even more elsewhere. I can't tell.

• "Of all interstate wars since 1816, only three are preemptive: World War I, Chinese intervention in the Korean War, and the 1967 Arab-Israeli War. Moreover, these cases indicate that the conditions hypothesized to lead to preemptive war, especially beliefs in the military advantages of attacking first and hostile images of the adversary, are associated with the occurrence of preemptive war only when they are present to a very high degree and when the attacker also has other motives for war.

Sean.hoyland - talk 13:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

• I'll look at Reiter... though perhaps eventually... Thanks! • Ling.Nut 19:45, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Caution To Editors Regarding Edit Warring

As noted at the top of this talk page, editors on this article are subject to general sanctions for edit warring here. In essence a prior arbitration case found constant edit wars on articles concerning Israel and Palestine. Namely, outside influences and conflict carry their way onto Misplaced Pages where the conflict continues. Misplaced Pages is not a battleground.

It appears the latest dispute here on a generally stable article started about a week ago. I would encourage all editors to work together in good faith to work out the dispute. Do not just make changes without discussing them with others here. Also, edit comments don't qualify as discussion, the discussion should be here where all can participate. One editor here has asked for informal mediation on this matter I would direct you to that mediation page if you are interested in participating.

That said all editors here should consider this a warning: if you continue to edit war here (i.e. revert without discussion, make substantive changes without discussion), fail to assume good faith and fail to work out your differences you are subject to sanctions which includes a block, a ban from editing the article at all or a topic ban if it extends to other articles. It also can lead to protection of the article. Thanks. --Wgfinley (talk) 14:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

There are a dozen or so editors who oppose the POV push by JRHammond. Several mainstream, neutral RSs state that the attack was preemptive and a classic example of premption. Hammonds claim of consensus is untrue and in addition, mainsteam sources contradict his marginal view.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 19:43, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, rash actions are being taken by both sides in this debate. Slowly, folks! This article... is in desperate need of a major overhaul (though it contains tons of stuff that can be saved and used). It is also an edit war magnet. Slowly, people, please. Step by step, or else all will come to naught. • Ling.Nut 19:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. But this is not an intellectual dispute. This is an attempt to revise history. The sources cited for preemption are numerous (much more so than the other side), mainstream and reliable. And what's this bullshit about "Israel falsely stated." That's not POV pushing? and as Marokwitz correctly points out, that a distortion of the source. Looks like Hammond views this debate as zero sum where winner takes all.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 19:59, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Jiujitsuguy is 100% right. First of everybody has to stop violating WP:NPOV, and then we could talk how to improve the article. Enough of re-writing the history already. Ling.Nut is working on the lead. Let them finish, and then we will see what to do next.--Mbz1 (talk) 20:42, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

What's false, Jiujitsuguy, is to say I ever said there was a consensus. In fact, what I've said is that since there's no consensus that the attack was either preemptive or not preemptive, the obvious solution, as per Misplaced Pages policy, is to have it read neutrally, noting both views, but endorsing neither. It's you pushing for an un-neutral POV in this case, my friend.

A solution to this edit warring has been discussed at LENGTH here, and an agreement made among editors that the solution is to retain the wording in question until objections and alternative suggested wordings have been heard and agreed upon, and only then the changes made. This is a perfectly reasonable solution which you, indeed, have rejected. Yet you offer no alternative solution, indeed, than reverting the changes with NO discussion, and in total disregard to the agreed-upon solution of a majority of editors.

I've gone out of my way to try to end this edit warring through discussion and consensus. Yet you make NO effort to participate through this kind of contribution, preferring instead to revert with NO discussion, and in total disregard to the agreed upon solution.

As for the "falsely claimed" wording, this is a fact. It's not a judgment or a view or an opinion. It's a fact. It's a fact that Israel claimed Egypt had attacked first. It's a fact that that was false. This is completely uncontroversial. If you really want to dispute that, good luck trying to put together an argument. You'll need it. JRHammond (talk) 02:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

First of all I remind you that Misplaced Pages cares about verifiability, not truth. Secondly, this is NOT a fact, it's your original interpretation, and a grossly distorted one. I read the source, and it only says "moved against", not "attacked". This can be interpreted as referring to the troops mobilization. And I found no mention of the word "falsely" in the source. The text you proposed was a blatant violation of WP:V and WP:SYNTH. Marokwitz (talk) 06:20, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I need no reminding, Marokwitz, that Misplaced Pages cares about verifiability. I never suggested otherwise.

It is an UNCONTROVERSIAL fact that Israel initially claimed that Egypt had "moved against" Israel (I'm not interested in debating semantics, and already revised my original wording to contain the exact quote rather than the paraphrase you objected to). Any editor here can verify that from the source I provided (also, "Each Side Accuses Other of Making First Assault", New York Times, June 5, 1967).

It is also an UNCONTROVERSIAL fact that no such aggression by Egypt occurred. If you disagree, you are welcome to present evidence from the documentary record that Israel was telling the truth. You'll find that you are not able to. And you'll find that nobody makes that claim. One would surely think that if this had actually been true it might have found its way into, say, Oren's book, no? JRHammond (talk) 08:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

In all my studies of the Six Day War I've never read anything to contradict the widely-reported statement that Israel initially claimed Egypt attacked first and subsequently changed its account to one in which it claimed the attack was preemptive. If anyone is questioning this, they will have to provide clear and solid sources. The following sources in support of the mainstream view (ie that Israel changed its story from "Egypt attacked first" to "we attacked first but it was preemptive") are currently available on the article page and have been for some time:

‘In the Security Council on June 5 Egypt charged Israel with aggression, as did the USSR. But Israel claimed that Egypt had struck first. It told the council that “in the early hours of this morning Egyptian armoured columns moved in an offensive thrust against Israel’s borders. At the same time Egyptian planes took off from airfields in Sinai and struck out towards Israel. Egyptian artillery in the Gaza strip shelled the Israel villages of Kissufim, Nahal-Oz and Ein Hashelosha..." In fact, Egypt had not attacked by land or air and none of its aircraft had approached Israel.’ The Case for Palestine: An International Law Perspective; John B Quigley, p. 163

The US Office of Current Intelligence "...soon concluded that the Israelis - contrary to their claims - had fired first." Robarge, 2007.

If those who objected to these accounts are unable to find solid sources refuting them, I would be grateful if they would put the information they removed back into the article. Phersu (talk) 08:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the further input, Phersu. I've already restored the information removed without prior discussion or sourcing that would demonstrate that this is in even the least bit controversial. JRHammond (talk) 09:17, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

• The question is not what's true or false; the question is the WP:WEIGHT applied to any given fact or set of facts. Foregrounding the Israeli flip-flop by placing it in the lead might work to create a patina of culpability that may or may not be appropriate in an NPOV article. One particularly subtle way of framing POV in an article is through the organization of the text... particularly troubling if it were but one in a string of facts that seems to lay culpability on one side only... Perhaps it's appropriate to place that fact in the lead; perhaps not (though certainly it should be in the article).... we will see whether or not it goes in the lead, but I must stress that its presence is certainly negotiable. • Ling.Nut 10:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I think it's an important fact that should be included in the lede. Like the Suez Crisis, Samu, the troop buildup, the closing of the straits, the expulsion of UNEF, etc., I think to omit it from the lede would be an oversight. However, I'm open to moving out of lede to body, and would suggest a new section dealing with the preemption vs. aggression issues. JRHammond (talk) 15:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Israel did not claim that there was a general attack by Egypt. See Prime Minister Eshkol's statement to the Knesset on June 5, in which he said:

"In Sinai, opposite our frontier, there were deployed until this morning five divisions of infantry and two armored divisions, with 900 tanks along the frontier 200 of them opposite Eilat, with the obvious intention of cutting off the southern Negev; Iraqi troops and Egyptian commando units reached Jordan; the Jordanian army was placed under Egyptian command. During the past ten days, Egyptian air sorties have been carried out in Israeli skies."

http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.2715653/k.C82A/Statement_to_the_Knesset_by_Prime_Minister_Eshkol_5_June_1967.htm

79.177.132.249 (talk) 14:24, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

It's an uncontroversial fact that Israel claimed Egypt attacked first. Israel gave a statement of this claim at the United Nations the day of the attack. Sources have already been given. Are you trying to "unprove" that or something? This quote is irrelevant. JRHammond (talk) 15:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

The thing is that Egypt did attack first, when it closed the strait for Israeli shipping. It was an act of war, and Israel warned she will consider it as an act of war, and she did.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:28, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

As you perfectly well know, that is not the Israeli claim in question -- the Israeli claim in question is its claim that on the morning of June 5, Israel responded to an Egyptian attack. It's absolutely uncontroversial, a known and demonstrable fact, that Israel made this claim. It is furthermore absolutely uncontroversial that this claim is false. Kindly refrain from engaging in strawman arguments. JRHammond (talk) 03:56, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Folks, probably better to stay focused on the source's accounts or else someone will wander in here and start talking closing borders elsewhere, acts of war, so on and so forth and it will end in tears. I'm just saying. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:02, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, warring over my warning on warring. Cool down please I see sniping on both sides of this but JRH there is no doubt you need to step things back a notch with the rhetoric. I see some efforts being made to try to work out the differences, they will not be worked out if you resolve to not negotiate and dig in your heels. Respectful discussion free of attacks is the best way to do this otherwise yes, there's a rather simple solution to the edit warring but nobody will like that. --Wgfinley (talk) 18:31, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Kindly quote me where I ever employed any ad hominem arguments, as opposed to addressing the facts and logic of the argument(s) put forth. You'll find, Wgfinley, you're unable to do so. So kindly refrain from suggesting otherwise. It's unhelpful. Cheers. JRHammond (talk) 03:56, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

1. I never accused you of making ad hominem arguments, I asked you to calm down -- WP:DISENGAGE.
2. You can be right about something and still be wrong -- META:DBAD.
3. You have engaged in a level of rhetoric that has created a hostile atmosphere (WP:CIVIL), you refuse to relent from your positions and you attack the positions of others with walls of text and barbs (WP:DBF). You've had editors ask you to calm down and you've had admins ask you to calm down and yet you've attacked anyone who has asked you to -- WP:NOTTHEM.
4. "Unhelpful" is not a word.
5. This is the first thing you posted immediately after your previous ban expired (WP:NAM) followed by open questioning of your ban even being valid, it appears you need more time to cool down, 7 days should do.
6. If you come back from this block and engage in more vitriol here again I'll have no choice but to take further sanctions and ban you from editing or discussion on this article per WP:GS. --WGFinley (talk) 05:02, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Proposed Additions

I'm not interested in editing warring. I put the POV tag on the article long ago because editors were introducing arguments into the lede about subjects that were not mentioned in the article and deleting attempts to add relevant sourced material to the article.

Editors were trying to justify the total exclusion of opposing views on the basis overly-long cherry-picked lists of references they employed to support the inclusion of their favorite verb. Most of those editors have long-since been topic banned. I've reached agreements here on several occasions that this article needs a subsection, at the very start, containing the various views of "all the interested parties to the conflict" on the so-called preemptive strike. It is hard to summarize something that the article doesn't discuss in the first place.

Here is some well sourced material I want to add to the article: A major oversight is the lack of a section on Operation Rotem. In 1960, the Russians had told Egypt that Israel was about to attack Syria. Egypt deployed their entire army into the Sinai before Israel found out what had happened. There were no Israeli forces in place to prevent them from invading. Ben Gurion used the military censors to keep the information from the public. He let it be known that Israel would not launch a first strike, and decided not to mobilize the reserves. He deployed a skeleton force under the name Operation Rotem and the situation eventually died down. The Egyptian units had all returned to their garrisons within a few months.

Rabin wrote in his memoirs that, in 1967 GHQ intelligence believed that Israel was facing a repetition of Operation Rotem and that the Egyptian Army would eventually withdraw from the Sinai. Rabin (and Ben Gurion) record that the former Prime Minister was furious with the General for mobilizing the reserves and bringing the country to the brink of war. According to Michael Oren, Prime Minister Eshkol had told the General Staff that the IDF was not established to fight wars of choice, and that the mere presence of the Egyptian Army in the Sinai was not grounds for launching a preemptive attack. Prime Minister Begin said the presence of the Egyptian Army was not a casus belli and that the Six Day War had been a war of choice.

According to the Commander of UNEF, the blockade of the Straits of Tiran was staged for the benefit of U Thant's visit to Cairo. Nasser announced that he had inspected two ships and immediately accepted a UN proposal for a moritorium. The Secretary General reported to the Security Council that Nasser had provided assurances that Egypt would not launch a first strike, and that he only wanted to restore the status quo ante conditions that had existed under the 1949 Armistice Agreements. Israel had declared its sovereignty over the DMZs and said the Armistice agreements were null and void. Syria complained to the Security Council that the Arab cultivators living in the DMZs had been dispossessed by Israel and replaced by Jewish settlers. harlan (talk) 19:20, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Pending Changes Protection - Level 1

Looking at the edit history from the past few days, weeks and months it seems this page is a good candidate for pending pages protection. In my opinion the vast number of editors here are trying to constructively work to iron out differences, thanks for your efforts. However, it's clear that some IP accounts continue to come in and edit war. I'm not big on doing sockpuppet investigations to see if socks are being used to edit war or avoid bans so I feel that Pending Changes is the solution for this article.

Since it's unclear where we are on resolving the dispute here I have left it indefinite, if things start to iron themselves out I can put a time on it. For now though I believe this should be protected at Level 1. That said, there was revert warring yesterday by registered editors, that needs to stop. Given the climate on this article you should discuss your changes here before making them. If registered editor edit warring continues I will bump this up to Level 2 pending changes protection which will require an admin or reviewer to approve edits.

Please work it out folks I will continue to watch the discussion and if further action against individual editors is needed I'll do so. --Wgfinley (talk) 18:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Good move. --Frederico1234 (talk) 19:29, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

We've had two blocks thus far for adding or re-adding disputed material and reverting. Again, the edit warring needs to cease or you may be blocked and further page protection will be necessary. It appears to have calmed down since I put Pending Changes in, let's keep it that way. Thanks. --Wgfinley (talk) 14:55, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for taking action, Wgfinley. Please, please continue to monitor the situation and help editors who are willing to discuss revisions and seek consensus for revisions to protect the article from editors who refuse to discuss changes and prefer to engage in edit warring. JRHammond (talk) 04:25, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

@Wgfinley, there's something weird about how you setuped the protection: the page is pc-protected so only autoconfirmed users' edits are immediately visible, but the page is also semi-protected so only autoconfirmed users can edit anyway... Rami R 07:51, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

@Rami - thanks for catching that, it should be corrected now. --WGFinley (talk) 16:21, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

The current page states that the strike is "widely described" as preemptive, but doesn't mention that this description is also widely disputed, not least by numerous notable historians and scholars. It also skews the Egyptian denial by preceding it with "Despite Nasser's war rhetoric and military posturing" (one could, of course, similarly skew Israel's claims).

Given that in all previous discussions in which editors were directly asked to come out in favour of a qualified or unqualified formulation the qualified formulation (along the lines of "an attack which Israel later described as preemptive") received a substantial majority, why does the page not reflect this?

I propose that we go with the following neutral, factual, and I hope uncontroversial formulation:

"On June 5, 1967, Israel launched an attack on Egypt. The Israelis subsequently said Egyptian forces had been about to attack them, and that the strike was therefore "preemptive". Egypt denied this, saying Israel's attack was an unwarranted and illegal act of aggression. Academics and commentators remain divided on the issue." Phersu (talk) 13:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

I am categorically opposing your changes, and going to revert you. Please do not insert POV in the article without even gaining the consensus. --Mbz1 (talk) 17:35, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I can pinpoint the reason the page currently does not reflect the discussion and agreement on wording in the 3rd paragraph. It is because users who refuse to discuss their objections or argue for their proposals on Talk continually revert the agreed-upon version (pending further revision after further discussion) back to this version which has been rejected. Yet for undoing their reverts and returning the article to the agreed-for-now version, I've twice been blocked by administrators. There seems to be a problem that admins want to take action to stop the edit warring, but make no effort to understand the situation to actually be able to do so in a productive manner. This is a serious problem. I've tried reasoning with numerous admins about this,to explain the situation, and request that leeway be granted to editors implementing agreed-upon versions, but nobody seems to want to hear, if we may draw conclusions from my repeatedly being blocked for implementing the agreed version. For now, I'm not editing the article, and instead will focus my efforts on helping Ling.Nut get his rewrite ready to go. If someone else wants to fix the article back to an agreed version, please go ahead. JRHammond (talk) 02:48, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Preemptive strike

Having proposed a revision nearly a week ago (see above) and receiving no objections, I have now changed the relevant part of the intro to the following:

"On June 5, 1967, Israel launched an attack on Egypt. The Israelis subsequently said Egyptian forces had been about to attack them, and that the strike was therefore preemptive. Egypt denied this, saying Israel's attack was an unwarranted and illegal act of aggression. Scholars remain divided on the issue."

In light of the support editors have given to qualifying the word "preemptive" every time the issue has been formally raised, could I ask that anyone wishing to make substantive changes discuss them here first? Phersu (talk) 17:29, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

In order to maintain continuity and avoid confusion, I am pasting Mbz1's subsequent comment (see above) here: "I am categorically opposing your changes, and going to revert you. Please do not insert POV in the article without even gaining the consensus. --Mbz1 (talk) 17:35, 5 August 2010"

In reply, I would ask:

1) Which part of my version is POV?

2) Why you felt it necessary to revert without discussion?

3) Why - in stating that I haven't gained the consensus - you ignore the fact that each time the issue has been formally raised, a clear majority of editors have supported qualifying the word preemptive in order to maintain Misplaced Pages's neutrality on a very contentious issue? Phersu (talk) 18:58, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I think it's disengenuous to say that "scholars are divided on the issue" when you have Finkelstein, Chomsky, Mersheimer and Quigley on one side and virtually everybody else on the other. Moreover, most, if not all of the cited sources in favor of preemption have not generally expressed a view that favors one side over the other whereas we all know where the four Musketeers stand--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 19:26, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

What's disingenuous, Jiujitsuguy, is to employ ad hominem arguments as an objection to seeking NPOV on the "preemptive" issue. Moreover, what evidence is provided by whatever sources to support the claim that the attack was "preemptive"? We don't need to turn to Finkelstein or Chomsky for the evidence. We may turn to Oren, who notes that the Israeli intelligence estimate was the same as the U.S. one, which was that given Israel's military superiority, it was highly unlikely that Nasser was going to attack, and even if he did, Israel would win within two weeks -- one if Israel attacked first. We may turn to Israeli prime minsters Begin or Rabin, both of whom acknowledge the war was not preemptive, but a war of choice. This is not controversial. You are only revealing your bias here. JRHammond (talk) 01:26, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Jiujitsuguy, I've cited a report published by the American Society of International Law Task Force on Terrorism ; journal articles by Jeanne Woods and James Donovan ; and James Thuo Gathii . They each concluded that Israel violated the customary law prohibition of preemptive war where there is no armed attack or an instant, overwhelming threat. They explain that the prohibition is a jus cogens customary international law norm (opinio juris) supported by the majority of scholars and states ("the doctrine of sources"). They based those assessments on lengthy explanations made by primary sources, including Rabin, Begin, etc. (e.g. the Wars of Choice speech: ). Do you have any published source which says that those authors are not discussing the majority view held by the scholarly community? harlan (talk) 20:43, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

If I may add to harlan’s point, Jiujitsuguy mentions Finkelstein, Chomsky, Mearsheimer (& Walt) and Quigley – all of them notable academics who are frequently cited in scholarly literature and all of them solidly opposed to the notion that Israel’s attack on Egypt was preemptive (ie, launched because an attack by Egypt on Israel was imminent).

Jiujitsuguy says “virtually everybody else” disagrees with them. That’s incorrect. Many notable scholars, politicians and commentators other than those Jiujitsuguy cites have cast serious doubt on the claim that an attack by Egypt was imminent. They include:

• Menachem Begin (Prime Minister of Israel)
• Yitzhak Rabin (Prime Minister of Israel)
• Lyndon B Johnson (US President)
• Meir Amit (Head of Mossad)
• Professor Mary Ellen O’Connell (Professor of Law, Notre Dame University)
• Professor Roger Fisher (Professor of Law emeritus, Harvard Law School)
• Sandy Tolan (Internationally-acclaimed academic, journalist and author)
• Sir Anthony Nutting (UK Minister of State and author of “Nasser”)
• James Reston (Executive Editor of The New York Times and Pulitzer Prize Winner)
• Dr Ersun Kurtulus (Associate Editor of the British Journal of Middle Eastern Studies)
• Professor Joel Beinin (Donald J. McLachlan Professor of History at Stanford University)
• Professor Henry Cattan (renowned international jurist, academic and writer)

I think most of the relevant quotes can be found among the many discussion page archives attached to this article, but if you wish me to dig out any particular ones I’ll be happy to do so.Phersu (talk) 00:42, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Please listen:

1. Misplaced Pages is completely unable to say the strike was preemptive. Misplaced Pages is completely unable to say the strike was NOT preemptive. Can we all please use that as a starting point? Everyone needs to get used to this idea right now: your side of the story will NOT be the "official" version. End of story.
2. Moreover, versions that include both sides of the story, but frame it in a biased (or even point/counterpoint) manner are ALSO not acceptable to Misplaced Pages. We can't say, "Some folks say it was preemptive" , however . Jiujitsu guy wants "preemptive" to be the official version. JRHammond wants to mention "preemptive", but then retract/overwhelm it with a buzzing swarm of "howevers". Neither of these two approaches will fly, since they are both violations of NPOV.

Here's what we're gonna do:

1. We are gonna present both sides of the story.
2. We are going to present each side in its own separate subsection of a larger section titled "Causes of the war" (or similar), so we won't have a dizzying ping-pong of point/counterpoint that is a veritable welcome wagon for POV bias and (obviously enough) edit warring..
3. We are gonna use only a modest number of the BEST sources to establish each point, because a huge column of quotes looks unprofessional (biggest reason, in my mind), slows load time, is distracting & makes the article harder to read, and makes it almost certain that we're quoting some folks of the "Larry King" caliber, who are not reliable sources.
4. We are gonna make the WP:LEAD very bland. We are not gonna argue or point/counterpoint in the lead.

That all I can think of now, but I may be forgetting something.

The main point is: NO OTHER APPROACH is gonna fly. Get it into your head now.

• Ling.Nut 00:51, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

What I want, Ling.Nut, is to state the FACTS, which are that Israel claimed the attack was preemptive despite the fact that its own intelligence assessment was that Nasser would in all likelihood NOT attack. Please explain to me how stating these noncontroversial facts violates NPOV. Thanks. I'm in agreement with the rest of what you say here, but obviously take issue with you saying that what I want is not NPOV. That is absolutely false. JRHammond (talk) 01:26, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Marshal your cites and quotes in the appropriate section. Do not put them in the lead; it will bias the article. Do not point/counterpoint in the "preemptive" section; it will invite (nay, guarantee) edit warring. By the way, a secondary goal I forgot to mention is: we need to at least try to make both sections the same length, to avoid even the appearance of violating WP:WEIGHT. That isn't a hard law like the other things I said, but it should be a soft goal. • Ling.Nut 01:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Ling.Nut's Rewrite

I've been discussing the rewrite at length with Ling.Nut. Discussion of it is here, on my talk page, and on Ling.Nut's talk page, so what I'd like to do is bring the discussion together here, in this one place. While I approve of most of the new lede, here are a few initial issues I'd like to resolve through discussion and consensus building:

1) I'm insisting that the lede, where it discusses UNEF, should note the fact that Israel refused to have it restationed on its side. Ling.Nut is vehemently opposed to inclusion of this fact, for reasons I am unable to comprehend. I don't see any legitimate reason whatsoever to omit a known uncontroversial fact, and willful omission of known relevant facts is a violation of WP:NPOV because a partial account will lead readers to draw certain conclusions they may not draw if they had a fuller account of the facts. I'd like to know others' thoughts. Approve or disapprove, and if you disapprove, why?

2) The sandbox currently asks for sources on the above (Israel rejected UNEF). Here are several:

a) If UNEF had been deployed on both sides of the Line as originally envisaged in pursuance of the General Assembly resolution, its buffer function would not necessarily have ended. However, its presence on the Israel side of the Line has never been permitted. The fact that UNEF was not stationed on the Israel side of the Line was a recognition of the unquestioned sovereign right of Israel to withhold its consent for the stationing of the Force.

b) Yet a simple solution to the UNEF conundrum existed, U Thant believed, and he presented it the next morning, May 18, to the Israeli ambassador. The UN force would cross the frontier and redeploy on Israeli territory.

c) It is hard to understand, however, why stationing UNEF on the Egyptian side of the border preserved the peace while stationing it on the Israeli side would not have or, put otherwise, why UNEF would deter Egyptian aggression on the Egyptian side but not the Israeli side.

3) Current version, first paragraph, reads: "...greatly reducing its geographic vulnerability to attack from neighboring states". I strongly object to this wording, as it implies that a) Israel's neighbors were the aggressors and b) Israel was "vulnerable". The former is a point of view, highly debatable (an understatement), and the latter a judgment seemingly without basis, given the fact that Israel, uncontroversially, had a vastly superior military force. I would argue this violates WP:NPOV and should therefore be revised or removed to read more neutrally.

4) The current version reads: "The Six Day War has been characterized as a preemptive war, an "inadvertent war", and an action designed to preserve the credibility of Israel's deterrence strategy, among other things." My argument is that if we are going to include different POVs with regard to characterizations of the war, how can we possibly omit the Arab POV, which was that the war was an act of aggression? It prima facie violates WP:NPOV to offer the Israeli POV but not the Arab one.

5) Current version reads: "The unresolved political status of the Palestinian territories and their inhabitants, plus the concurrent refugee problem, are central issues of the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict." I strongly object to this, as it omits and whitewashes the fact that the Palestinian territories have been under a more than 4-decades-long foreign military occupation. This is completely uncontroversial, so why go to such great lengths to avoid mentioning the fact? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I don't see any legitimate reason NOT to mention what is arguably the single most significant consequence of the war. Seriously, going out of the way to omit this fact is just plain ridiculous.

Current version notes one consequence being a rise in Islamism. If that is going to be mentioned, I think it is absolutely incumbent to also note what one can easily argue is the most significant consequence, which is the occupation. I have proposed several variants: (a) "Another lasting consequence of the war that has had enormous repercussions and which helped establish the Six Day War as a watershed event in the Middle East was the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory, which continues to this day." (b) "Another consequence that established the Six Day War as a watershed event in the Middle East is the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories." (c) "The Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories and its repercussions for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is another consequence that established the Six Day War as a watershed event in the Middle East."

I'm not adamant in the least bit about the word, only that the occupation as a consequence of the war be at least MENTIONED. Anyone who disagrees, state your reasons please. I don't see any legitimate reason to omit the fact whatsoever. How can we NOT mention this? JRHammond (talk) 02:17, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

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