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Please

Please take a look at User:WhatamIdoing/Sandbox, and feel free to improve. I'm sure there are better examples than what's occurred to me. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Some of your recent changes aren't quite accurate. A scholar writing decades later is not a first-party actor in the Manson Family murders. The first-party sources in that example are (1) the people committing murder and (2) the people being murdered. The police are actually third-party sources for what happened. (They are first-party sources for whatever they saw and did themselves.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:51, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Please, feel free to edit/remove/improve anything I added - I was just trying to flesh things out the way I see them, and I freely admit I might not have hit it on the head. What you've done is a really good start, and I think it'll be useful. what I really need to do, I think, is go through the assortment of policies and essays that already try to deal with this issue and see what they say explicitly; that way we can use this to integrate and organize them better. --Ludwigs2 21:11, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

The endless treadmill...

Hi Ludwigs2, I've reversed your closure of the "latest" WT:RD thread on punctuation &c. For an editor-behaviour thread, my feeling is that it should be closed by an admin if it is to be closed at all. There has also been some hostility in the past at reftalk to editors unilaterally hatting discussion threads on the lines of "who are you to decide?". This is a case where I have to ask the same question - and I've been thinking about this since 3 minutes after your edit, so it's not a decision arrived at lightly. Refdeskers are by and large pretty level-headed people and I always value their input (including yours) - so I'd prefer to see the comments continue for a while more. Hopefully I've accurately refactored your closing note but feel free to refactor additionally as you see fit. Franamax (talk) 22:20, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Lol - no problem. Usually when I do something like that it's more in the nature of smelling salts - an unexpected and unpleasant intrusion that can sometimes snap people back to full consciousness. It wasn't intended to be authoritative, exactly, and I don't mind it being reverted if there's a good reason to revert it.

I do think I was correct, however: unless there's some meaningful changes in attitude this is just going to squabble its way straight into bans/blocks. I will be more surprised than most if anything productive comes out of continued debate. --Ludwigs2 23:58, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Your closure was likely correct from the standpoint of unlikelihood of further progress and potential for further disruption. It may also have been correct as being already a decided issue, but you didn't indicate the previous consensus in your close. Prediction of the future is not really a basis for a close, unless there is ongoing disruption within the thread which needs to be quelled. Remember that when you hat something, you are telling everyone else on the wiki to STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS! You need to outline to all others why the discussion itself should be shut down, rather than why the discussion subject (or initiator in this case) should be left up to an admin to decide based on sober summing-up of other people's views. Franamax (talk) 00:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

missed your comment

sorry, I missed your comment, here: Template_talk:Hidden_archive_top#nominated_for_deletion. I was surprised by the whole thing as I think the discusssion was closed as I was typing. Then when I checked to see when it was opened, I was really irritated. They should have a minimum time before a deletion discussion is allowed to be closed. stmrlbs|talk 01:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

well, you could reopen the deletion discussion with a very clear statement that the last one was too short to be meaningful. do you think that would be useful? --Ludwigs2 02:57, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

NPA

Please do not make personal attacks, such as referring to your fellow editors as neurotic. This is not a helpful approach.. Misplaced Pages has a strict policy against personal attacks. Users who continue to violate this policy will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Thank you. KillerChihuahuaAdvice 17:03, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Ha, came here to state the same point. Ludwigs, you really must make an effort to assume good faith and must accept that not everyone accepts or agrees with your reasoning, no matter how brilliant you think it is. Please take more care to be civil. . . dave souza, talk 17:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC)