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==Purpose of the Myth Box== | ||
| '''PURPOSE:''' ''This Myth Box is to introduce the fundamental topics of Mesopotamian mythology with brief |
'''PURPOSE:''' ''This Myth Box is to introduce the fundamental topics of Mesopotamian mythology with a brief description of each. It is to make it easy to navigate around the various relevant topics. These topics are grouped together.'' | ||
| :Name: '' '''Meso Myth''' is shorter and easier to use than "Mesopotamian mythology''!'' | |||
| ⚫ | I am the original creator of |
||
| ⚫ | I am the original creator of the original Myth Box and the only one who has made any substantive edits. One user has an ongoing dispute ], and apparently that dispute has spilled over here. The resultant edits have blanked more than half of this template, leaving mostly empty space that wastes bandwidth on each article that uses it. Moreover, the edits left '''dangling conjunctions''' showing that the edits were made '''carelessly''' and without due consideration. | ||
| ⚫ | ''']''' has devised several standards and models which this series was a particular beautiful example as originally designed. One of the standards of the Myth Project is to have a list of links to articles pertinent to mythology. '''A mere list of gods with mostly empty space and dangling conjunctions serves no purpose and wastes space.''' | ||
| ⚫ | ''']''' has devised several standards and models of which this series was a particular beautiful example as originally designed. One of the standards of the Myth Project is to have a list of links to articles pertinent to mythology. '''A mere list of gods with mostly empty space and dangling conjunctions serves no purpose and wastes space.''' | ||
| As originally designed, each description was linked to an article important to Mesopotamian mythology. | As originally designed, each description was linked to an article important to Mesopotamian mythology. | ||
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| *Gilgamesh and the Cedar Forest: The hero Gilgamesh almost obtains immortality by travelling to the '''world of the gods''': the Cedar Forest! | *Gilgamesh and the Cedar Forest: The hero Gilgamesh almost obtains immortality by travelling to the '''world of the gods''': the Cedar Forest! | ||
| *Enlil and the 7 who decree fate: Mesopotamian mythology is '''based''' on these 7 gods!!! | *Enlil and the 7 who decree fate: Mesopotamian mythology is '''based''' on these 7 gods!!! | ||
| *Resheph and plague and war: Resheph is the demon of plague and war. Another user ] agreed, and put in the |
*Resheph and plague and war: Resheph is the demon of plague and war. Another user ] agreed, and put in the latest link. | ||
| *Enkidu and Namtar had brief descriptions of what they are. | *Enkidu and Namtar had brief descriptions of what they are. | ||
| *Marduk and Babylon: Marduk is the high god and '''patron of Babylon''', that's why this god is important! | *Marduk and Babylon: Marduk is the high god and '''patron of Babylon''', that's why this god is important! | ||
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| '''Without descriptions this Myth Box is useless.''' | '''Without descriptions this Myth Box is useless.''' | ||
| <font color="green">-</font> <i><b>] ]</b></i> ] 21: |
<font color="green">-</font> <i><b>] ]</b></i> ] 21:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC) | ||
| == Removal of Descriptions == | |||
| The editor who created this template did so only to replace ] because it had been updated and errors fixed and he apparently awanted his old version back. Insitead of taking the time to reupdate every single last article he switched to his new ] template, I am copying the old template over and putting it here so all the new links work as well. | |||
| Castaneta Denatatas, please stop recreating a new template everytime you want to make changes. You must have something like 5 different versions of this same template floating around. Also, it would help that when someone points out mistakes, errors, and just plain unrelated links that you actually try to listen instead of launching into personal attacks and doing a runaround of policies to try to get your way anyway. ] 19:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Your changes are really poor. You have simply blanked half of it. Now there are dangling conjunctions and unattractive blank spaces using up most of the template space. This is silly. You have some sort of grievance with a user named Elonka, and you are allowing your personal feelings to damage other areas of Misplaced Pages randomly. | |||
| :Your half-blanked version does not even comply with the Myth Project guidelines. The point of a myth box is to have interesting links that explain the relevance of the myths, not simply a list of gods. This list of gods is meaningless, unintelligent and serves no purpose. | |||
| :All the links as originally designed were relevant to the mythology, and follow exactly the same series of templates for Greek mythology. As originally designed, the Myth Series templates are easy to navigate, brief, and provided quick links to articles beyond simply gods. These articles are on concepts, not merely. | |||
| :The Myth series of templates is not five versions of the same template. They are each different templates that divide the Mythology into digestible topics. This allows the user to navigate around easily without having a huge template taking up too much space in each article. | |||
| :The series follows the standards developed in the myth project, and are modeled closely after the same series in Greek Mythology. The current namefor this introductory template (Meso myth) is shorter and easier for editors to use than Mesopotamian mythology which I also created. | |||
| :I am the original creator of this particular series and the only one who has made any substantive edits. | |||
| <font color="green">-</font> <i><b>] ]</b></i> ] 19:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ===really pointless infobox, with bad info=== | ===really pointless infobox, with bad info=== | ||
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| :::::You know, it's striking me more and more that you are the knd of person who is simply incapable of admitting she is wrong, even if you to have to come up with some outrageously rationalizations to try to do so. By the way, there you go again making more false accusations of personal attacks. You should really chill out and stop trying to cause new conflicts left and right. I was just fine ignoring you and erasing your stalkerish messages on my talk page whenever they showed up, but when you start following me around to harass me with this nonsense on page like this you make it impossible. Please get a grip. ] 18:09, 29 January 2006 (UTC) | :::::You know, it's striking me more and more that you are the knd of person who is simply incapable of admitting she is wrong, even if you to have to come up with some outrageously rationalizations to try to do so. By the way, there you go again making more false accusations of personal attacks. You should really chill out and stop trying to cause new conflicts left and right. I was just fine ignoring you and erasing your stalkerish messages on my talk page whenever they showed up, but when you start following me around to harass me with this nonsense on page like this you make it impossible. Please get a grip. ] 18:09, 29 January 2006 (UTC) | ||
| <comment deleted>: | |||
| ===Original comment and reply to that=== | |||
| No one has my permission to change my comments or to use a version already amended before the below user came online. <font color="green">-</font> <i><b>] ]</b></i> ] 21:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Good, you have admitted vandalism. Blanking half a page randomly is vandalism. I guess you'll have to blank this talk page to conceal the act. You and your sockpuppets are under investigation anyway. ] 03:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Nope, no vandalism, and, no, no sockpuppets. I did not blank half a page randomly, I removed bad info and completely irrelevant links, and if you were familiar with the topic you would know that. No "sockpuppets" are under investigation, it's just you and Elonka making all sorts of bizarre and patenyl untrue claims, like that anyone who ever left a Barnstar on my page is really a sockpuppet and etc. The point here, Dentata, is that making edits to improve the information in this ''encyclopedia'' (yes, that's what we are trying to do here, not just have petty schollyard fights and conspiracy theories) is in no way vandalism (I already pointed you to the ], you should specifically see the What vandalism is not section), and a group of admins telling you and/or Elonka that you are out of line do not sockpuppets make.] 13:45, 29 January 2006 (UTC) | :::Nope, no vandalism, and, no, no sockpuppets. I did not blank half a page randomly, I removed bad info and completely irrelevant links, and if you were familiar with the topic you would know that. No "sockpuppets" are under investigation, it's just you and Elonka making all sorts of bizarre and patenyl untrue claims, like that anyone who ever left a Barnstar on my page is really a sockpuppet and etc. The point here, Dentata, is that making edits to improve the information in this ''encyclopedia'' (yes, that's what we are trying to do here, not just have petty schollyard fights and conspiracy theories) is in no way vandalism (I already pointed you to the ], you should specifically see the What vandalism is not section), and a group of admins telling you and/or Elonka that you are out of line do not sockpuppets make.] 13:45, 29 January 2006 (UTC) | ||
| == Start over == | == Start over == | ||
Revision as of 21:39, 11 February 2006
Purpose of the Myth Box
PURPOSE: This Myth Box is to introduce the fundamental topics of Mesopotamian mythology with a brief description of each. It is to make it easy to navigate around the various relevant topics. These topics are grouped together.
- Name: Meso Myth is shorter and easier to use than "Mesopotamian mythology!
I am the original creator of the original Myth Box and the only one who has made any substantive edits. One user has an ongoing dispute with a third party, and apparently that dispute has spilled over here. The resultant edits have blanked more than half of this template, leaving mostly empty space that wastes bandwidth on each article that uses it. Moreover, the edits left dangling conjunctions showing that the edits were made carelessly and without due consideration.
Misplaced Pages's Myth Project has devised several standards and models of which this series was a particular beautiful example as originally designed. One of the standards of the Myth Project is to have a list of links to articles pertinent to mythology. A mere list of gods with mostly empty space and dangling conjunctions serves no purpose and wastes space.
As originally designed, each description was linked to an article important to Mesopotamian mythology.
A template on Mesopotamian mythology is incomplete without a link to Mesopotamian astrology.
For example, Ishtar is paired with the article on Babylonian astrology, which is the historical origin of modern Western astrology. Planets were named after Mesopotamian gods. Ishtar was the planet Venus. This last pairing is interesting since it is also important to the field of comparative mythology comparing gods of the Near East with those of the Roman Empire.
A template on Mesopotamian mythology is incomplete without a link to Zecharia Sitchin's popular ancient astronaut theory.
Mesopotamian mythology has also appeared in popular literature such as the science fiction by Zecharia Sitchin. Sitchin's science fiction series about the Mesopotamian gods purported that they were actually ancient astronauts. This has inspired a number of fictional and semi-fictional works, including popular films and TV series such as Stargate. Now I think his theory was science fiction and it it is extremely popular. The movie and TV series have generated millions of dollars and has attracted millions of viewers for decades. This shows how Mesopotamian mythology is relevant today.
These are just two examples of what was lost when half the Myth Box was blanked out. All descriptions were erased.
Others were:
- Utnapisthtim and the world flood: The world flood myth is what makes Utnapishtim important. He is the template for Noah's ark.
- Tammuz and new life: "New life" is what the epic of Tammuz about; he returns from the dead!
- Zu, the lion-eagle: Zu is interesting because of his bizarre shape: half lion, half eagle!
- Kingu, mankind's blood: Mankind was created out of Kingu's blood. This is a common theme in creation myths!
- Gilgamesh and the Cedar Forest: The hero Gilgamesh almost obtains immortality by travelling to the world of the gods: the Cedar Forest!
- Enlil and the 7 who decree fate: Mesopotamian mythology is based on these 7 gods!!!
- Resheph and plague and war: Resheph is the demon of plague and war. Another user User:Oliver Lineham agreed, and put in the latest link.
- Enkidu and Namtar had brief descriptions of what they are.
- Marduk and Babylon: Marduk is the high god and patron of Babylon, that's why this god is important!
How can a reader figure out what these Mesopotamian names are without a description?!!!
This Myth Box Series, as originally designed, matches exactly the beautiful Greek Myth series. Both break down the mythology into smaller pieces so as not to waste space and bandwidth with a needlessly long template. This makes for easy navigation and helps the reader understand the whole mythology by grouping it into topics.
This Myth Box is the introduction to the series. The main topics are introduced, and links to gods and concepts are displayed to attract interest.
The altered version does not seem to follow any particular criteria at all. It is half empty space without links to any topical articles whatsoever and with dangling conjunctions.
Without descriptions this Myth Box is useless.
- C. dentata 
21:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Removal of Descriptions
The editor who created this template did so only to replace Template:Mesopotamian mythology because it had been updated and errors fixed and he apparently awanted his old version back. Insitead of taking the time to reupdate every single last article he switched to his new WP:FORK template, I am copying the old template over and putting it here so all the new links work as well.
Castaneta Denatatas, please stop recreating a new template everytime you want to make changes. You must have something like 5 different versions of this same template floating around. Also, it would help that when someone points out mistakes, errors, and just plain unrelated links that you actually try to listen instead of launching into personal attacks and doing a runaround of policies to try to get your way anyway. DreamGuy 19:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
- Your changes are really poor. You have simply blanked half of it. Now there are dangling conjunctions and unattractive blank spaces using up most of the template space. This is silly. You have some sort of grievance with a user named Elonka, and you are allowing your personal feelings to damage other areas of Misplaced Pages randomly.
- Your half-blanked version does not even comply with the Myth Project guidelines. The point of a myth box is to have interesting links that explain the relevance of the myths, not simply a list of gods. This list of gods is meaningless, unintelligent and serves no purpose.
- All the links as originally designed were relevant to the mythology, and follow exactly the same series of templates for Greek mythology. As originally designed, the Myth Series templates are easy to navigate, brief, and provided quick links to articles beyond simply gods. These articles are on concepts, not merely.
- The Myth series of templates is not five versions of the same template. They are each different templates that divide the Mythology into digestible topics. This allows the user to navigate around easily without having a huge template taking up too much space in each article.
- The series follows the standards developed in the myth project, and are modeled closely after the same series in Greek Mythology. The current namefor this introductory template (Meso myth) is shorter and easier for editors to use than Mesopotamian mythology which I also created.
- I am the original creator of this particular series and the only one who has made any substantive edits.
- C. dentata 19:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
really pointless infobox, with bad info
This template is just rather poor... it doesn't have much organization, brings (or brought, since I killed most of it off) up totally irrelevant articles, misses important figures like Nergal... it's just plain poor. We're better off with a simply link to the appropriate mythology article so people can click links there.
I remove this template and its sister one on any article I deal with on a regular basis, withour a major revamp I don't think it should go anywhere, really. DreamGuy 02:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- Good, you have admitted it. Blanking half a page randomly is inappropriate. This page is a record of that. The real issue was already under investigation anyway. This was your first edit to the page, so a dispute with me or this template and the pages it effects is not an issue here. For example, had you visited Mesopotamian mythology pages before, you would have known were Nergal is. Castanea dentata 03:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- Better work on your reading skills. I said I remove this template from articles when I run across it because I find it useless and wholly inappropriate, which is not the same thing as admitting "blanking". The edits to this template were to remove things that had nothing to do with Mesopotamian mythology, linked things inappropriately, had false information, and so forth. Asking about Nergal was the point that you put weird and bizarre things in the template but didn't even cover the most basic aspects of this culture's mythology. The whole template needs to be completely redone, with a better graphic, better organization instead of some haphazard collection of terms thrown together, and so forth.
- Let's look at what you used to have in the template (and I see Elonka restored... funny how someone with no knowledge in mythology shows up to undo the changes I made, just to try to get in my way), shall we?
- First up, you list gods and then just tack something onto the end on the line that makes no sense. "Ishtar and the planet Venus", OK, great, Ishtar is right, and she is linked to the planet Venus, but the Venus article has nothing to do with Mesopotamian mythology. "Annunaki and astronauts" let me repeat that "Annunaki and astronauts". This is just absurd. Astronauts? And you link that to ancient astronauts. You are placing some incredibly bizarre modern fringe conspiracy theory onto what is supposed to be a mythology template. Zu the lion eagle, lion eagle goes to griffin, OK, but, Zu is not a griffin, the griffin article has nothing to do with Mesopotamiam mythology... And why is the format even in a LINK TO NAME OF MESOPOTAMIAN MYTHOLOGY CHARACTER plus LINK TO SOMETHING ELSE I JUST SORT OF THOUGHT UP? Why isn't it just a list of, you know, the gods and heroes and monsters like ti says? And the summaries provided after the names just aren't correct a lot of the time.
- I could go on here, but the point is that this whole template (and the slew of other similar ones created by you that have minor modifications), is just a mess from beginning to end. It doesn;t try to have comprehensive links to the most important articles, half the links have nothing to do with anything, the descriptions are wrong... it's a disgrace. It needs to be totally redone from scratch, but the edits I made were just to remove most of the nonsense now instead of waiting. It'd also be nice if someone who has a better grasp of Meopotamian mythology put it together, instead of someone claiming Kutha was the underworld and so forth. DreamGuy 13:36, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- DreamGuy, regarding the personal attack "and I see Elonka restored... funny how someone with no knowledge in mythology shows up to undo the changes I made, just to try to get in my way", it is quite incorrect. You have no knowledge of what I do and don't know -- just because I do not participate frequently in the mythology discussions on Misplaced Pages, do not assume that this is an area in which I do not have expertise. There are actually verifiable references that I do, such as the fact that I was Executive Producer of a mythology-related MMORPG.. Please be more careful about these kinds of assumptions in the future. Elonka 17:51, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- LOL, so you worked a little fantasy game that featured some of the standard Greek myths everyone had in English class and now you are an expert on Mesopotamian mythology? Groovy. Taht must mean everyone is an expert.
- You know, it's striking me more and more that you are the knd of person who is simply incapable of admitting she is wrong, even if you to have to come up with some outrageously rationalizations to try to do so. By the way, there you go again making more false accusations of personal attacks. You should really chill out and stop trying to cause new conflicts left and right. I was just fine ignoring you and erasing your stalkerish messages on my talk page whenever they showed up, but when you start following me around to harass me with this nonsense on page like this you make it impossible. Please get a grip. DreamGuy 18:09, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
<comment deleted>:
No one has my permission to change my comments or to use a version already amended before the below user came online. - C. dentata 21:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
- Nope, no vandalism, and, no, no sockpuppets. I did not blank half a page randomly, I removed bad info and completely irrelevant links, and if you were familiar with the topic you would know that. No "sockpuppets" are under investigation, it's just you and Elonka making all sorts of bizarre and patenyl untrue claims, like that anyone who ever left a Barnstar on my page is really a sockpuppet and etc. The point here, Dentata, is that making edits to improve the information in this encyclopedia (yes, that's what we are trying to do here, not just have petty schollyard fights and conspiracy theories) is in no way vandalism (I already pointed you to the Vandalism policy, you should specifically see the What vandalism is not section), and a group of admins telling you and/or Elonka that you are out of line do not sockpuppets make.DreamGuy 13:45, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Start over
How about everyone takes a deep breath and re-reads assume good faith and WP:CIVIL please. Words like "pointless", "poor", "irrelevant", "vandalism" and "sockpuppets" are not conducive to a civil discussion. Can you please try to start over and talk about the template? Elonka 03:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
(followup) Thanks for changing your comments, Castanea, that shows a mark of maturity. DreamGuy, do you think you would be willing to do the same? It would go a long way towards showing that you're willing to engage in a good faith discussion about the template (and other things). Elonka 05:16, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- Elonka, you've been trying to file a bogus revenge RFC full of false claims about me. It's pretty ridiculous for you to be trying to show up here claiming to be the voice of restraint when you've yelled at admins trying to get comments in good faith removed just because the portray you in a less than positive light. Showing up here to try to create new conflict is not a good idea. Admins already warned you about harassing me, this certainly does nothing to help your case. DreamGuy 13:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- I encourage you to prove that any of the claims at User:Elonka/DreamGuy dispute are false, as well as the "yelling at admins" charge. I assume you're referring to this section of Android79's talk page. Interested parties are welcome to read your personal attacks and my rebuttal for themselves. As for why I got involved with this particular template, Castanea came and specifically asked me to take a look. Upon further investigation, it would seem that your change to this page may have been a violation of Misplaced Pages:Harassment, specifically "Wikistalking" -- Castanea came and posted a message of support on my talk page, and an hour later you were doing wholesale deletion of Castanea's edits, and engaging in a revert war. If, however, there is a prior history of dispute between you and Castanea, I would be interested in seeing it. As for whether or not I'm taking Castanea's side, I have already stated that Castanea's own behavior is this matter was inappropriate. I would also point out that I have no history of reverting your changes (to my knowledge this is the only time I have ever gotten involved in such a matter), so charging harassment is incorrect since there is no pattern. I have the right to engage in edits on pages that you have participated in, just like any other editor.
- Regarding the RfC/RfAr information that I am gathering, I will repeat that if you would like me to stop gathering information for an RfC, all you have to do is apologize for your personal attacks and false claims about me. However, this is not a longterm offer. The more information that I gather about your behavior, the more I realize that it is a serious problem which Misplaced Pages is going to have to address. I may soon retract the "apologize and it's over" offer, so I would recommend that you give careful thought to whether or not you would like to apologize on the relevant pages immediately.
- In summary, it is my sincere request that if the two of you disagree about the content of this template, that you engage in a good faith discussion about it, rather than a revert war. Elonka 17:44, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- No, Elonka, YOU coming here is wikistalking... I have always been editing mythology articles, and I was updating some info on a number of Mesopotamian mythology articles when it was clear that the template was not just pointless like I had seen before, but actually with inaccurate information. So I fixed it. Bottomline here is that you don't know policy, accuse me of doing things you do, and have done far worse attacks on me than anything I have done. In your head, apparently the truth that you don't want to hear is an "attack" so you whine and complain to admins about it to try to get the truth erased, and meanwhile you go around and making outrageous accusations and contact every two bit spammer, POV-pusher and so forth you can think of who doesn;t like me because I follow Misplaced Pages policies and remove things that they did violating them. Frankly, go ahead with your RFC... Your actions show clear harassment, misunderstanding of policy, and a disturbing obessive need for revenge while meanwhile you collect a group of Misplaced Pages's most troublesome editors to try to support you. People are going to look at your claims, see who else joined in, and then know right away just how out of touch with reality you are. Now, if YOU would like to apologize for personal attacks on me, and stop stalking me, I'm sure that with time you could become a valued contribtor is you read up on the policies and stopped flying off the handle. DreamGuy 18:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- Well, somewhere in there among the insults I'm going to try and assume good faith and acknowledge that at least this is communication, so okay, let's proceed. Can you please give an example of where you believe that I have "done far worse attacks on you"? Elonka 19:02, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- It's cute how you manage to litter all your comments with policies you aren't actually following to try to give the pretense that you're not engaged in a campaign of harassment, but here's a clue: This page is not about you. It has nothing to do with you. It's about a really screwed up template someone threw together and which I later tried to fix and explain where errors were, and you just came in and reverted it all in an effort to make me have to talk to you. As I've already patiently explained to you multiple times, the best way to resolves this "dispute" of ours is to let it go. I've tried ignoring you, and in response you've obsessed over it, stalked me and posted on some 20 plus talk pages to try to get people together to lash out at me for whatever this great crime you think I did to you is. You need to let it go and move on, because this kind of obsession is unhealthy. We barely even talked like three times and you're acting like some needy ex-girlfriend following me around and trying to keep tabs on me. Please get this into your head: I don't want to have anything to do with you, and Misplaced Pages is a big place so it's not like I have to... except that you keep popping up on my talk page, the talkpages of people I interacted with recently and now a template page for god's sake. If you want to show good faith -- real, honest good faith -- just go away and get on with your life. DreamGuy 19:49, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- No, Elonka, YOU coming here is wikistalking... I have always been editing mythology articles, and I was updating some info on a number of Mesopotamian mythology articles when it was clear that the template was not just pointless like I had seen before, but actually with inaccurate information. So I fixed it. Bottomline here is that you don't know policy, accuse me of doing things you do, and have done far worse attacks on me than anything I have done. In your head, apparently the truth that you don't want to hear is an "attack" so you whine and complain to admins about it to try to get the truth erased, and meanwhile you go around and making outrageous accusations and contact every two bit spammer, POV-pusher and so forth you can think of who doesn;t like me because I follow Misplaced Pages policies and remove things that they did violating them. Frankly, go ahead with your RFC... Your actions show clear harassment, misunderstanding of policy, and a disturbing obessive need for revenge while meanwhile you collect a group of Misplaced Pages's most troublesome editors to try to support you. People are going to look at your claims, see who else joined in, and then know right away just how out of touch with reality you are. Now, if YOU would like to apologize for personal attacks on me, and stop stalking me, I'm sure that with time you could become a valued contribtor is you read up on the policies and stopped flying off the handle. DreamGuy 18:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC)