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Revision as of 13:26, 12 February 2006

famous persian jews?

Are Moshe Katzav, Shaul Mofaz and Dan Halutz considered to be "famous persian jews"?

I don't think Dan Halutz is even a Persian Jew. As for the other two, I'm not sure how much they emphasize their Persian roots. Basically, if you want to know if someone is a famous Persian Jew, first make sure he/she is famous. Then ask someone to write a paragraph about him/her. If the paragraph contains the words "Persian" or "Iranian" then that person could be famous Persian Jew. This is certainly the case for Ester. I don't know about Katzav or Mufaz. Aucaman 06:01, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Dan Halutz is indeed of Iranian origin (both his parents were born in Iran), but he himself was born in Israel and I don't think he has any knowledge of the Persian language (Farsi). Both Moshe Katzav, the current president of Israel, and Shaul Mofaz, the former Chief of Staff of the IDF and the current minister of defense, were born in Iran and are fluent in the Farsi language. There was even a scandle around this during the funeral of Pope John Paul II, where Katzav claimed he spoke to Iranian President Mohammad Khatami in farsi during the occasion.

Are there really only 11,000 Jews remaining in Iran today?

I've heard the number was actually between 25,000 and 30,000. Have the number of Jews living in Iran diminished to only 11,000 in recent years?

The official number is 11,000 but the actual number might be closer to what you're suggesting. Most sources seem to say 11,000. I'm not sure where it's coming from. Aucaman 06:00, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the info.

Criticisms of the Phrase

I removed the following paragraph:

It is strange how the Persian Jews are not accepted. Persians Jews have been in Iran for 2,700 years. That is 90 generations ago. In, addition, they have been in Iran over 1200 years before Islam ever exsisted. Yet, to lots of unaccepting Muslims, they are too different to be regular "Persians". They do not need any acceptance; all Jewish Persians are as Persian as Muslim Persians and Armenian Christan Persians. A simple practice of religion does not affect one's race, yet they are discriminated against.

That may be true, but I think it is irrelevant to a section titled "Criticisms of the Phrase" and its wording strikes me as somewhat patronizing (i.e., non-compliant with the non-POV policy).TheMcManusBro 15:38, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I am a Persian who is non-religious. I have always felt that the Jews are different and they should leave Iran. Nobody had invited them to Iran in the first place. I have NEVER felt the same way about Armenians. I feel Armenians of Iran are just as Iranian as myself but Jews are different. Armenians contribute to the society. Jews network AGAINST the society. That's the difference. 69.105.39.132 09:39, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

2 not 1

I remember seeing a news peice on CNN that said there were TWO jews in Afghanistan, not one. I could be wrong seeing as how this was a couple of years ago, but if anyone has the time to track it down it might be worth looking into.

At least one has since died (it was in the news)... if not both of them... they were both quite elderly. Tomer 07:18, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Recent edits

Some recent edits have been rather disturbing:

• Some here tend to think any Jew living in the Persian Empire is a Persian Jew. Unfortunately that's not true. For example Egypt used be part of the Persian Empire, so Egyptinan Jews are Persian Jews? That's why it's important to note that they must speak Persian to be Persian Jews.

• Some also like to suggest that there has been substantial interbreeding between local Persians and Persian Jews, to the effect that one cannot tell the difference between Persian Jews and local Persians. This is also wrong. Although there has been interbreeding, most Persian Jews tend to have certain (linguistic as well as physical) characteristics that distinguishes them from the local populations. In beginning of the 20th century (parallel to the rise of Nazism in Germany), there was widespread Persian literature about these characteristics which classified Persian Jews as "Semites" and not "Aryans"--hence not "real Iranians". Aucaman 04:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Are Persian Jews ethnically Semitic? Are they not Semitic? Has there been "substanstial interbreeding" ("intermarriage" would be a better choice of words) with non-Jews? Mass conversions of non-Jews to Judaism in previous eras? There is no evidence to back any of this up, and it's irrelevant either way. I am, however, curious about this allegedly "widespread" Persian literature classifying Persian Jews as Semites, which I personally find doubtful. There were a few Nazi sympathizers during the 1930s in Iran who bought into their racist propaganda, but they were most definitely fringe. SouthernComfort 15:41, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the page history, you'd see that people have been trying to add what I explained to be wrong information to the article. That's all I was trying to say. I'm not going to add any of the things I said to the article, so there's no point asking me for evidence. Those who add new information to the article are responsible for providing evidence. Aucaman 07:34, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

No conversation about Jews that entails a discussion of "interbreeding" can be good... Tomer 01:11, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

This was one of my points.Aucaman 03:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Conversions during Parthian times

From time to time, there were cases were there would be converts to Judaism, most during the Parthian period.

This is apparently the claim the anon has been insisting upon. Any sources for this? SouthernComfort 01:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Expansion required

This article barely has any information concerning the contemporary life of Persian Jews in Iran. Also, why the inclusion of information and links to Jews in India and Pakistan? Are they related to Persian Jews? The sentence about Aghanistan is also misleading - the vast majority of the Jewish community there fled due to the Soviet invasion (obviously along with many other Afghans). By the time of the Taliban, most were already gone. This same information was in the Afghanistan article until I corrected it with a link to a Washington Post article (primarily revolving around the issue of the single Afghan Jew left there). SouthernComfort 01:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

The community dated back 800 years and still numbered 5,000 in 1948, but most remaining families fled the violence and repression that followed the Soviet invasion of 1979. From the article linked above. SouthernComfort 01:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Dzhidi

According to Ethnologue, there were 60,000 Dzhidi-speakers in Israel in 1995. . Does anyone have more recent figures? Also, is the language taught in Israel as well? SouthernComfort 02:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't see this post. I remember I found a source saying there were 93,000 Persian Jews in Israel, so I was the who put in the 100,000 estimate (the source was at least 8 years old, so it's even a low estimate). I'll try to find that source and add it in within the next two days. Also, I think the number in the U.S. should be a little higher, but I didn't have to time to do any research on that.

As for the second question, I doubt Persian is taught in any Israeli high schools, but it's probably taught in many universities.

Aucaman 13:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Forced conversions in Pakistan

What is the source of this information? SouthernComfort 02:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)