Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 09:07, 10 November 2010

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 November 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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Hold On

To whom it may concern,

Here are reasons why I believe Belen Echandia is deserving of a Misplaced Pages page...

1. Belen Echandia has developed a niche business model that contracts family run, traditional Italian leather ateliers to produce custom, premium quality handbags in small quantities. The classical production methods that BE employs are a stark contrast to other competing companies who's products are often either mass produced or compromise quality in some way to realize greater profits. BE's renaissance business model is unique in this day in age.

2. Belen Echandia features a couture service where each and every customer can customize each and every feature of their handbag. My best efforts cannot find another handbag manufacturer in the world that offers this service. If one exists, please point me to it (?).

3. Belen Echandia is a world wide company with employees in the UK, Canada, Sweden, Italy, and US. Product is shipped globally on a daily basis. It is my opinion that any business that ships product globally is deserving and is "notable" enough to warrant a Misplaced Pages page.

4. Since inception in 2004, Belen Echandia has generated a tremendous amount of press concerning both the company and it's products since it's creation 6 years ago. A snapshot of this press listing is found here. The company and it's products have been featured in many iconic magazines, such as Vogue, Elle, Cosmopolitan, Harper's Bazaar, etc. Products have been endorsed by likes of Claudia Schiffer, Kylie Minogue, etc. I realize that "fame/popularity" and "notability" are not necessarily one in the same by Misplaced Pages's standards. However, I am of the opinion that "fame/popularity" does/should generate at least some "notability".

Lastly, I am still relatively new to Misplaced Pages. I have tried to upload a page for Belen Echandia on two or three other occasions. I have tried my best to incorporate feedback received from User:Jimfbleak and User:Malik Shabazz only to have the BE page deleted again. I am realizing that either I have a gap in my understanding of Misplaced Pages's "notability" rules (despite reading them several times) or I am just no good at contributing to this online community (?). Instead of deleting my efforts yet again, I would ask that the page be tagged as a stub so that other more experienced and more talented Misplaced Pages contributors can help to build a page for Belen Echandia in a collaborative fashion.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to my point of view. Please feel free to leave a not on my talk page with any questions, concerns, guidance or recommendations.

Parafianowicz (talk) 03:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. I'm going to be off line for 72 hours. Please be patient and allow me the time to review any feedback from the above note and make the appropriate changes to the BE page. Thank you. Parafianowicz (talk) 03:34, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I restructured the page and added content. Please be patient as there are more edits that I would like to make before the page is re-evaluated. Thank you. Parafianowicz (talk) 02:10, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I research other companies on Misplaced Pages's hand bag page and added similar content to bring the Belen Echandia page up to par. I am under the opinion that this page will always be a work in progress; however, I am becoming more confident after going through this editing process that this BE page is getting closer to meeting Misplaced Pages's standards. Parafianowicz (talk) 02:44, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The page was fully written by user Parafianowicz, someone who openly admits a compelling bias to the company concerned. This page has been deleted 3 timed so far because of this bias. One needs only to perform a quick search of the user forums related to handbag companies to see the strong disconnect between the words of this article and customer feeling. For example see the quality control tread here http://forum.purseblog.com/belen-echandia/post-customer-service-quality-control-concerns-here-539747.html which now runs to 188 posts. There is not a single mention of quality control issues in the article. None of this is meant as an attack on Parafianowicz, people can't be objective about things they are too closely involved in, which is why the COI policy exists. Also this company is likely too small to be of general interest anyway, it can't have more than 10 employees. 80.68.88.178 (talk) 10:10, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll answer the four points stated by Parafianowicz above. 1. It's clearly wrong to state that all competing companies mass produce bags. To claim 'BE's renaissance business model is unique in this day in age.'(sic) implies a knowledge of the business model of every single company operating in this sector. Clearly that's impossible, this whole point is based on a very dubious assertion.

2. It's stated that it's hard to find another company who lets customers custom design bags. A quick google search found plenty of companies who do exactly that.

3. Global shipping isn't new or novel, many retailers ship globally and most are not notable.

4. We need a citation for each appearance in Vogue, Elle, Cosmopolitan, and Harper's Bazaar. We need a citation showing how these products are endorsed by Claudia Schiffer and Kylie Minogue. I can't find any evidence of any of this. I suggest not using the names of any living person without clear citations.

This page is an advert and should be re-written by someone who isn't strongly biased or it should be deleted. Unixtastic (talk) 23:07, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm writing to acknowledge the receipt of Unixtastic and 80.68.88.178's comments. Regretfully, I cannot reply in detail now and will do so over the course of this week. Thank you for your patience. Parafianowicz (talk) 03:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

I represent Belen Echandia and I would like to clarify that the only link between Parafianowicz and Belen Echandia is that his sister Lydia interviewed the owner of Belen Echandia for an article for the Swedish newspaper for which she works. We have never met, he doesn't own any Belen Echandia bags, he doesn't have any ownership or other relationship with Belen Echandia and is not biased or closely related to the company. In response to the Purse Forum thread posted, there are 104,520 posts on the Belen Echandia Sub-Forum of the Purse Forum, 188 of which are listed under the complaints thread. We will provide further references as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience.User:Findingtruths (talk) 08.35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Anyone could say they work for anyone else which is why wikipedia has a policy about original research. It's not about your word being better than my word it's about what is provable by citation. Look at the articles about most other companies on wikipedia, they are NPOV and contain both positive and negative. This article is so positive it can't be genuine, furthermore the persistence with which the same account reposts basically the same thing each time it's deleted is indicative of someone with a non-academic motive for posting it. As to your comments about my mentioning a complaints thread I only mentioned this because it's a sticky thread at the top of a busy Internet forum. It's provably true that none of the big name brands on http://forum.purseblog.com have a sticky, top of the page, thread devoted to quality control issues. The lack of any mention of this in this article is evidence of bias. Unixtastic (talk) 19:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Findingtruths - You state that the author and repeated reposter of this article is a brother of a journalist who interviewed the owner of Belen Echandia for an article. This contradicts Parafianowicz's talk page which states that his/her sibling is interning at Belen Echandia. Either you don't know the company which you claim to work for or one of you two isn't telling the truth. In any case none of your statements are verifiable. Unixtastic (talk) 20:09, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

As further evidence of bias on the part of Parafianowicz please see the comment submitted with the image used in this article at http://en.wikipedia.org/File:Belen_Echandia_Logo.jpg which clearly states 'Jackie Cawthra is a colleague of mine.' This appears to be the same Jackie Cawthra who founded this company. Unixtastic (talk) 20:52, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

My apologies, you are correct that Lydia first wrote interviewed the founder of Belen Echandia and then went on to write some website articles as an intern for the Belen Echandia magazine. Her brother Parafianowicz took great interest in the company and was writing a Misplaced Pages entry for another company he worked for at the time. N.B. that article has not been removed. Parafianowicz does not work for Belen Echandia and is not affiliated with us. He is merely an individual who wished to write an article on Misplaced Pages about our history. I merely wished to clarify that he is not representing us nor is he closely affiliated with us, nor does he have any material interest in BE, nor have we ever paid him anything. We have never even met. He is in Canada and we are in London. He is not a colleague of ours and does not, nor has ever worked for Belen Echandia in any way, shape or form. I will ask him to address that issue separately/remove that comment/edit it if possible.

You make a good point about the complaints thread on The Purse Blog being a sticky at the top of the page. This is absolutely NOT indicative of us having any more quality issues than any other company out there or on that forum. In fact we surely have far fewer (hence 118/100,000 posts)and almost no returns. It was put there to stop people arguing on the main board, to keep any concerns separate. Each sub-forum is organised differently, the person who set ours up felt that it was best to keep any complaints in a separate thread to keep the rest of the board positive. However, that you have raised this has raised questions for us - thank you - and we will ask the owners of the forum to consider putting it somewhere else.

We have an active community of customers who will be more than happy to post comments to the Misplaced Pages page if they are only given the chance. I thank you again for your patience whilst Parafianowicz gets back with his answers to your previous questions. (talk) 22:27, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

If you work for BE prove it with a citation, I could easily say I worked for them as could anyone else. How can you state 'I thank you again for your patience whilst Parafianowicz gets back with his answers to your previous questions.' You appear to know this user well enough to have expectations of his behavior and also more personal details than are publicly available. Either 1) Parafianowicz and findingtruths are the same person, 2) findingtruths knows Parafianowicz well enough to expect certain behavior. i.e. Parafianowicz has a business relationship with findingtruths, or 3) findingtruths is a random troublemaker and nothing this user says can be trusted. Findingtruths' previous statement when talking about user Parafianowicz that 'his sister Lydia interviewed the owner of Belen Echandia for an article for the Swedish newspaper' is provably false by the fact that one Lydia from Canada who used to work for a Swedish newspaper now works for this company ( http://www.belenechandia.com/infoarticlepage.aspx?intMenuId=218&intId=53 ). It appears that everything Findingtruths has said so far in this page has been a transparent tissue of lies. Unixtastic (talk) 08:22, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello again. (findingtruths) is/I am Jackie Cawthra, and all I am trying to do is explain that Parafianowicz is not employed nor has ever been employed by Belen Echandia. I don't know how to prove who I am but if you check the email address registered to (findingtruths) you will see that this is true. Why have you set the page to db:spam? I saw this morning that another user (also unrelated to BE) had edited the page and I simply logged in to correct a spelling error. I did however forget to tick the box "minor error". I stated that I thank you again for your patience because in the notes above Parafianowicz asked for some time to respond to your questions. I was merely commenting on the thread. I find your behaviour in continuously marking this page as spam to be increasingly absurd. —Preceding undated comment added 08:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC).

Please also note that the biggest contributor to this page is unknown to us - those edits were made last night after the page was flagged as a KEEP by another administrator. Various administrators have already decided that this page is notable but Unixtasticseems to be determined to take it down. I consider that to say that the person who made a major contribution to this page is closely related to Belen Echandia is libellous and I request that you remove that comment immediately until you can prove it. If you think that Parafianowicz or any other major editor of this page is closely related to Belen Echandia then please explain what you think his relationship to Belen Echandia is and prove it with a citation as you are asking me to do. Thank you.

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