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Comment

"The synod of 358 was a Semi-Arian conciliabulum, presided over by Basil of Ancyra. It condemned the grosser Arian blasphemies, but set forth an equally heretical doctrine in the proposition that the Son was in all things similar to the Father, but not identical in substance."

What's up with this? Seems very non-NPOV to me.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.11.229.194 (talk) 01:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

An automated Misplaced Pages link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Ankara article, and they have been placed on this page for your convenience.
Tip: Some people find it helpful if these suggestions are shown on this talk page, rather than on another page. To do this, just add {{User:LinkBot/suggestions/Ankara}} to this page. — LinkBot 10:26, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

More info is on the way. mu5ti ☪ 07:28, Jan 6, 2005 (UTC)

The total area of Ankara is 30,715 km2, not 2,516. The figure given in the table is irrelevant. It is neither of metropolitan area, nor another. Please figure out the correct value. Also for Istanbul the total area is 5,712 km2, not 1830.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.142.152.16 (talk) 12:04, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Population

There seems to be some confusion about the population of Ankara. At the start of the article, the population is given as 4,751,360, but in the section "Demographics", the population is given as 3,763,591 or 3,901,201, depending on whether one is talking about central Ankara or the metropolitan municipality. Certainly these latter figures appear to be in keeping with the earlier population figures figures quoted and the rate of population growth that they suggest. It could be that the 4.75 million figure is correct for some other, defined area, but if so that should probably made clear. Or is it a typo and should it be approx. 3.75 million. Does anyone have any ideas? Ondewelle (talk)

Street Map

I would like to find a street map of Ankara, I would really like to see one.

Jorbian 8:28 Aug 11, 2005

I think I can provide you with a map, but it says they're updating it... You may want to check here to see if they're done with it. (kutukagan 00:05, 4 December 2005 (UTC))

Bold text

I really want to come here. right now im writing a report on this place but ya i would really like to come visit here.

I am not sure if Ataturk established his headquarters in Ankara in 1919 or 1920. Does anyone know for sure? Looks like a factual mistake.

Atatürk came to Ankara on December 27, 1919. At least that's what we've been taught for 14 years now. (kutukagan 09:11, 29 December 2005 (UTC))

As far as I know it was General Mustafa Kemal who arrived to Angora on December 28, 1919, not yet by that time renamed Kemal Ataturk.

Etymology

The proposed etymology of anchor for Ankyra seems to trace back as far as Pausanias, a Greek geographer of the 2nd century AD. (The name of the city was homophonous with the Greek word for "anchor".)

—Pausanias, Guide to Greece 1.4.5

What have Zeus and Midas to do with anchors? Why would an inland city on a semiarid plateau be named after a maritime implement? If the (sea-going) Galatians named it, why did they not choose a Celtic name? If the Phrygians named their capital, would its name not be a Phrygian word? Or even Hattian?

I would flag this as an obvious folk etymology, but I have no authority to cite.

--Ziusudra 20:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Until 20th century many western texts called this city "Angora", which of course resembles the greek word for anchor. However the city is far older than either the greek or the galatian (celtic) presence in the region. There were Hittite artifacts recovered from the construction site of Ataturk's mauseleum and many believe that Ankara is the city which passes as "Ankuva" in Hittite records. Most likely this name or a derivative of it was hellenized as angora. At any rate it is very well known that the celts had nothing to do with the founding of the city, but it is thought that they were the original constructors of the citadel.

Angora / Ankara

Some common language origins? In Finnish Angora is connected with Angora Cat (Persian Cat) and Angora wool from rabbit cony made in Astrahan on Itil (Volga) mouth in addition to Angora or better known Karakul black lamb from Buhara Emirate.

Ankara means transliterated Severe and Turkki (name for Turkey) is Fur Coat. Kara is (war) waggon axle or "terävä tikari" (sharp-edged dagger weapon) hidden in war club (Karahka).

Some connection in 5.000-3.000 BC in the Altai (Turan / Turania) region? Turkic tribes in the south side, Finno Ugrians on the north side. Common "urheimat" (urheimmat = bravest)? Hakassit (haka = hook, kassi = bag) are mixture of Nenentsi (Finno Ugrian) and Turkic origin in Sajan area east of Altai. Sahas (saha = saw), living north of Burjatti Mongols are mixture of Turkic, Finno Ugrian and Mongol origin. Also called Jakuutit (kuutti / kuutit = young seal /seals). All these pure incidets?

Picture of Kızılay

I would like to know why this picture is continually removed by anonymous posters.

It is an original picture that is not a duplicate of one already here (unlike the numerous pics of the airport) and is not a copyright violation as it is a personal photo I took and donated to Misplaced Pages. I will be readding it the the gallery and would appreciate it if it is not removed yet again. Teşekkürler! --Jayzel 19:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Picture of Ankara

Whatever happened to the nice twilight view of the city that used to be the top photo? It was far better than this outdated Atakule picture- ankaran 14:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 25 September 2007

hight

just minor detail, the turkish site says that ankara is between 950 and 1050 m of altidude... 88.70.4.118 19:01, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

travel brochure

I'm sorry, I don't know how one would fix this, but this whole article comes off like a travel brochure.Saganatsu (talk) 19:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Ankuwash?

The article claims that Ankara was named Ankuwash in the time of the Hittites. I suppose this name is a variant of Ankuwa. Ankuwa is currently believed to be either the village of Alişar or possibly Eskiyapar . See also the German Misplaced Pages entry de:Ankuwa. The sources given here for Ankuwash do not mention any academic sources and I doubt them. Can anybody substantiate this claim with a more credible source? --İnfoCan (talk) 20:44, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed mention of Ankuwash due to lack of evidence. --İnfoCan (talk) 19:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

It's back and now sourced, but fwiw the sources are still wrong (at least in asserting an unquestioned identity)... -114.91.73.167 (talk) 09:50, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Alacahöyük

Added specific official description of place of origin of artefact Alacahöyük:

Ceremonial standard, bronze, Alacahöyük, second half of the third millenium BC. Height 24cm.

I ought to add the Official Guide book of the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations to the references. --Михал Орела (talk) 10:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC) --Михал Орела (talk) 13:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Publications

1. The Museum of Anatolian Civilizations, Ankara: "The association for the support and encouragement of the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations." Dönmez offset (Printer), 2006, ISBN 978-9751721983

--Михал Орела (talk) 13:48, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Missing citation

The following text in the article is not properly supported:

Ankara has experienced a phenomenal growth since it was made Turkey's capital. It was "a small town of no importance" when it was made the capital of Turkey. In 1924, the year after the government had moved there, Ankara had about 35,000 residents. By 1927 there were 44,553 residents and by 1950 the population had grown to 286,781.

The reference (currently number 7) is to the "Columbia Lippincott Gazeteer"; the latter is not included in the list of publications. On what page in what volume does the text "a small town of no importance" occur?--Михал Орела (talk) 14:09, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

straw poll for US/UK spelling conventions

This article is peppered with US and UK spelling variations, and I'd like to standardize it on one variant. So I'm taking a quick straw poll for US/UK preference. If I get no response in a few days I will rewrite it to UK spelling. Manning (talk) 01:34, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Population

What was the population of Ankara in 1927: 75 000 (as in Population section) or 44,553 (as in History section) ?

Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 10:15, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

External links

I removed various links to pages that apparently did not add to the article. This includes:

• Web pages with only a little bit of info about Ankara, and LOTS of advertisements.
• Web pages of newspapers, which should be a section about Ankara media instead.
• Web page to airport, which should be a reference from a "Transportation" section.
• Web pages to purely Turkish language Web pages. Please find English links from the English Misplaced Pages if possible. I'm sure there's something there.

uspn (talk) 10:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

It took centuries to build Rome, but only a day to destroy it. Have some respect for other people's contributions through time. Misplaced Pages articles are not places to display one's touristic souvenirs. And some info are usually found in local sources only (especially info which are not internationally known very well.) People are allowed to add local references when foreign references are not available. 151.57.194.47 (talk) 10:06, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Let me be specific, then. These are the links I removed

- http://www.videosofturkey.com/video_details.asp?id=248 , this is information taken FROM Misplaced Pages (and now being outdated), a video that is in a format not available on all platforms (Windows media file), and the page has lots of ads. They are trying to make money from a Misplaced Pages link.

- http://www.turkeylive.net/ I've read a couple of the articles, and this is not encyclopedic information. Also, the many casino links on the page implies the purpose of the page.

- http://www.ankaragundemi.com/ , this is some kind of news site, again with lots of ads and no immediate encyclopedic value. From a section about Ankara it might be relevant. Please add this section if you think it belongs here.

- http://www.ankarasondakika.com/ , same as above

- http://www.nallihannet.com/ , I checked this page three days in a row. There's no server there.

- http://www.turkeyforecast.com/weather/ankara/ , page not found

Regarding my photos, I never replace with my own photos unless they are substantially better than the previous ones. I don't put up my "souvenir" photos, I take photos particularly for the purpose of putting them on Misplaced Pages. Please see my contribution history to confirm this.

uspn (talk) 10:16, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I removed the superfluous links. 151.57.194.47 (talk) 10:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

So the reason for your complete revert of all the changes I made was not the links after all? Now for the photos, I did remove

File:AnatolianCivMuseum.DO.jpg and replaced it with . Why was that a wrong thing to do, so that you had to revert it?

Also, I don't really see why the photos of present-day Armada Tower and Dikmen Valley Towers belong in the "Turkish history" section. And the "panorama" photo at the bottom there is a really low quality photo that isn't even a panorama.

Then there are all the grammatical/English adjustments I made. Just an example:

Original: "The city was also known in the European languages as Angora after its conquest by the Seljuk Turks in 1073, and continued to be internationally called with this name until it was officially renamed Ankara with the Turkish Postal Service Law of 1930." I checked the reference, and all it says is that the name changed in 1930, nothing about the reason. The page has a lot of ads and even a half-naked lady prominently on display. (Not that I mind that particularly, but it's a bit peculiar.)

My suggested improvement, including removing the reference was: "The city was also known in the European languages as Angora after its conquest by the Seljuk Turks in 1073. This continued to be the name internationally until it was officially renamed Ankara by the Turkish Postal Service Law of 1930."

I hope I am beginning to show that my edits were not "arbitrary destruction", as claimed by Miss 151.57.194.47

uspn (talk) 10:45, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, the "colour contrast" in the photo at left is better. The object is better centered, and you don't see shadows towards its base (your photo at right has plenty of shadows towards the base of the object). Also, in your photo, the curtain in the background has way more "wrinkles" which cause an "increased traffic" inside the visual sensors of the human brain, making it more difficult to distinguish the original form of the "object" itself. 151.57.194.47 (talk) 10:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

On a good quality monitor you will find that it is possible to see a lot more detail in the photo I added than on the previous photo. Even on a poor monitor you should be able to make out more details if you click through to the actual photo and look at the full resolution version of the photo. Compare http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Hittite_Art_Previous_Ankara_Symbol.JPG with http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/AnatolianCivMuseum.DO.jpg and you will see what I mean. Also, taking the photo not from the front center allows for more of the motif to be seen.

Anyway, I don't care that much about the photos, but I'm bothered by your complete removal of all textual adjustments. Many of the sentences in the Ankara article were difficult to read, and many still are, but I really spent some time trying to improve the text on this page. You just removed them all.

uspn (talk) 11:02, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

FYI, with the Turkish Postal Service Law of 28 March 1930, Constantinople became Istanbul, Angora became Ankara, Smyrna became Izmir, Trebizond became Trabzon, Adalia became Antalya, Caesarea became Kayseri, Prusa became Bursa, Iconium became Konya, etc... It was a part of the Turkish nationalist reforms. According to the law, the Turkish State Postal Service stopped delivering letters to destinations named with the historic/ancient names, which eventually forced other countries to adopt the Turkish names. 151.57.194.47 (talk) 11:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I know that. My point is that the reference that should explain that this happened, does not mention this at all. That's the reason why I removed it.uspn (talk) 11:58, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

151.57.194.47 edits

I don't know who this person is, but I call upon an independent logged-in Wikipedian with some credibility and responsibility for this page to take a look at recent edits. I made a number of changes to this article that I intended as improvements, including better readability. This person reverted all of them, citing the reason that external links I had removed should have stayed in place.

I'm in no mood for a lengthy discussion with an anonymous user. Please, take a look at my edit, http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Ankara&oldid=322713755 , and compare it to the current article, and consider which one suits the purpose of Misplaced Pages best.

uspn (talk) 10:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to replace the Turkish references, when you find English references to put in their place. 151.57.194.47 (talk) 10:24, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Climate

I don't understand why someone stated that Ankara has a steppe climate. I'm going to revert the climate section to Ankara having a Continental mediterranean climate. Ankara clearly falls under this category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.71.67 (talk) 04:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Ankara bordering on a semi-arid climate

Ankara is not particularly close to bordering a semi-arid climate. Here is why:

Taken from the semi-arid climate article (semi-arid climate and steppe climate are synonymous): "To determine whether an area indeed has a semi-arid climate, the precipitation threshold must first be determined. Finding the precipitation threshold (in millimeters) involves first multiplying the average annual temperature in °C by 20, then adding 280 if 70% or more of the total precipitation is in the high-sun half of the year (April through September in the Northern Hemisphere, or October through March in the Southern), or 140 if 30%–70% of the total precipitation is received during the applicable period, or 0 if less than 30% of the total precipitation is so received. If the area's annual precipitation is less than the threshold but more than half the threshold, it is classified as a BS (steppe climate)." This is supported by this document.

From the data in this article, Ankara's annual average temperature is 9.7°C (avg. annual high of 16.1°C plus avg. annual low of 3.3°C, divide by 2) and it receives 192mm (46.3%) of its annual average precipitation of 415mm in the high sun months, April-September. So the precipitation threshold (representing potential evapotranspiration) for this location is 334mm. Ankara's annual average precipitation is well above this threshold (81mm), so its climate is not very close to a semi-arid climate. We can argue about what "borders x climate" really means, how much difference is too much, etc., but that is a very substantial difference.

As well, my previous edit summary said "Please discuss if you disagree". Please read the edit summaries.

1brettsnyder (talk) 22:35, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

You explained it well and with reference and I will not challenge it; but the confusion arises (not only me), because Ankara (or other cites like Madrid or Zaragoza) has a treeless steppe vegetation, and steppes are traditionnaly characterized by a semi-arid and also continental climate (the latter that Ankara does indeed have, no doubts about that). But when vegetation is linked with climate types, it does raise question marks. While Ankara's sparse vegetation is definately steppe, the climate as you stated is not classified as "semi-arid". How much, if at all, does or should climate types be linked with vegetation types? Can you "enlighten" me on this?

Thank you very much.

Menikure (User talk:Menikure) —Preceding undated comment added 14:07, 1 August 2010 (UTC).

I'm not convinced Ankara has a Csb climate. Under the Köppen-Geiger system, "C" zones have an average temperature above 10°C, and Ankara's is 9.7. Borderline, yes (also with regards to potential evapotranspiration and winter temp is below 0°), but it's most likely in a B or even a D zone. I'm inclined to think it's a BSh, but on this map it seems to be BSk or D. Koppenlady (talk) 21:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Koppenlady, I'm slightly confused here. I believe that average temperatures for a C climate has to be at least above -3 in its coldest month for it to be considered a C climate. Also, according to the data, the city's evapotranspiration rate takes it outside the arid and semiarid range, which it clearly is. According to its precip. patterns, unless I'm missing something, Ankara has the "Continental Mediterranean climate" version of the Mediterranean climate. G. Capo (talk)

Bottom line for any C climate is an average annual temperature above 10°C, and Ankara's is 9.7. Close, but that would make it either B or D depending on EPT. I haven't done any calculations, but the Koeppen map shows it as BSk near a D zone. Koppenlady (talk) 22:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Not quite. A C climate has an average temperature greater than 10 degrees celsius during its warmest month and an average above -3 degrees Celsius during its coldest month. Based on the data, Ankara fits under this category. Also if you run the calculations determining aridity, Ankara is neither arid or semi-arid. It's somewhat close, but it's not a B climate.G. Capo (talk) 00:29, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Capo, you are correct and I thank you for pointing that out. I have been looking through so many systems that I must be confused :S. Perhaps I was thinking Trewartha, where at least 8 months must average 10° or more, and I believe Ankara falls short. Nonetheless, the -3° is widely replaced with 0° in current adaptions so, even under Koeppen, it may fall short at -2.5°. The biggest contention, I suppose, somes from the Koeppen map itself, where Ankara is nowhere near a Cs regime, and it seems to sit on the border between BSk and D. No matter how you slice it, it's borderline! Please feel free to make changes as you see fit! Koppenlady (talk) 16:39, 15 October 2010 (UTC)b

1. Tore Kjeilen (2004-09-03). "Ankara". I-cias.com. Retrieved 2009-05-05.

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