Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:54, 14 February 2011

Songs Start‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Single

I know in some discussions at WP:SONGS, it was concluded that radio add dates determined US only singles, even if they do not have single covers or have music videos (i.e. Like a Surgeon, Love in This Club Part II, and Until the End of Time (Justin Timberlake song)), Slow Dance (song). Shouldn't this be as well? Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 02:42, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Update here are some of the discussions Talk:Bionic_(Christina_Aguilera_album)#.27You_Lost_Me.27_next_single.2C_Not_.27WooHoo.27, Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Songs/Archive_4#Singles_release_date_is_when_FIRST_being_SOLD_as_a_Single.2C_NOT_Radio_Airplay, I know there were some more, because it was a big debate issue on the musicscape of Misplaced Pages around last year this time. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 02:58, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Agree -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 17:00, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm unsure. I mean, this could be the same situation as "Hard". I say we should call it a single, until we have proof otherwise. ℥ 16:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

If the song had blown up on urban radio and made the Hot 100, people would be rushing to label it a single. But when a song doesn't chart well people think it should be make it a promo or a just a song just because it wasn't a hit, and that's not justice. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 23:23, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Well since our friend Nicky88 hasn't responded I'm going to propose its changed back to single. There is no evidence to say its a promo single. -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 16:08, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I strongly believe that releasing a song to radio does not make it a single. The best example is Put It in a Love Song, which is also qualified as single in Misplaced Pages. Airplay is not a suitable format. Jivesh • Talk2Me 17:42, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Jivesh... that deosn't make sense because that song was sent to radio! -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 19:35, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Agree It is definitely the only way to tell if a song is released in the US. --Cprice1000talk2me 17:52, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Not when it's only sent to "Urban" stations. Rihanna is not some everyday artist, she is one of the hottest artists out there and Nicki is up and coming as well. Thus it makes no sense this "single" was only sent to a specialized station.Cazxiro (talk) 00:27, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

*yawns* It's because it is an urban-based song. That's just like saying "Only Girl" wasn't a "single" because it was only sent to Top 40 & Rhythmic. If this song blew up on urban radio and made the Hot 100, you Rihanna fans would be rushing to call it a single. Don't think we are stupid with these arguments just because it hasn't charted yet. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 00:36, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Except "Only Girl (In The World)" had: a video, a single release, AND cover art. Which of these does "Raining Men" have? Oh right, NONE. It also doesn't have a separate download page on iTunes. For the record, your argument is stupid and faulty due to the fact that it charting doesn't make it a single. If that was the case then "Speakerphone" was a single for Kylie's X. Cazxiro (talk) 18:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm confused. Wasn't Wait_Your_Turn a promotional single? And it had cover art and a music video...?--mikomango (talk) 18:22, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Which is my point. How is "Raining Men" counted as an official single on wikipedia but "Wait Your Turn" is not. Cazxiro (talk) 04:23, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Not Single

Raining Men is not a single it is a promotional single. The third single from Loud is S&M —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.188.132.87 (talk) 04:37, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

SynthMonster (talk) 13:26, 27 January 2011 (UTC)This song isn't released as a digital download, Rihanna isn't going to shot a music video for it. This song was just sent to radio to promote the album. No one is going to pay money to download it digitally. This makes this song a promotional single. The main point about a promotional single is that it's not released to earn money on it, it is released just to promote an album. Single is released for both aims. So, it's apparently, that "Raining Men" is a promotional single and poor charting and absence of a music video are not the points to regard it. This song is not for sale, that's all.

Bored... where is the source to say its promotional? Read the post above and links to previous discussions. *yawn*, -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 04:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

LOL Unique. Comments like this from IP users annoy me as well. :L ℥ 17 January 2011 (UTC)

SynthMonster (talk) 13:26, 27 January 2011 (UTC)Why then the "Loud" page, which is semi-protected, says that "S&M" was released as the album's THIRD official single? Then maybe "Only Girl (in the World)" is a promotional single?

There is no artwork, no music video, and no other charts. Besides that was it even released as a digital download? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelB722 (talk • contribs) 19:32, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Attempt to read the previous discussion and those archives before you come blabbing about what isn't. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 19:36, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Rihanna said her "third" single from her album Loud will Be S&M with an unexpected music video,not her forth Single. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apple48 (talk • contribs) 01:35, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Lady Gaga also said that '] was her second album. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 01:55, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

If she intended it to be her third single then why did she send "Raining Men" to radio before "S&M". The facts speak for themselves. Its more likely that "Raining Me" was released and because it stalled on the airplay charts plans were pulled before any further promotions were planned. -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 02:33, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Same that happened to Woohoo. --ĈÞЯİŒ 1ооо 02:41, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Looks like the label is doing what they were trying to do originally and have dual urban/top 40 singles with S&M and Raining Men, as they are re-sending it for urban radio again. With that said, its a good thing they are, because it has rebounded on urban. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 22:35, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

It is not a single. A US radio release date is the same as an iTunes digital release date AND club release date yet both "Wait Your Turn" and "Breakin' Dishes" (both of which actually charted) are only included as Promotional Singles. Like what someone said above, there must be justice. If THIS single counts, so do those other two. Afterall, there are promo copies of both aforementioned songs sent out JUST like this song. ust because it was released in the US, does not make a difference.Cazxiro (talk) 00:23, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Singles do not get "club" release dates. However, they do get radio add dates. "Breakin' Dishes" and "Wait Your Turn" did not get radio add dates, "Raining Men" did. And "just because it was released in the US" does make a difference. It was just a US single then. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 00:30, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Exactly, neither "Wait Your Turn" or "Breakin' Dishes" were sent to US radio. "Raining Men" was and will in fact be sent to radio again. Sending a song to radio is the label telling stations ..."hey this is the next single". Just because a song doesn't become successful and then people decide not to give it a video etc. doesn't mean its not a single. Songs like "There Goes My Baby" by Usher were only sent to radio and never received an iTunes date. This is a classic case of people not wanting to admit that not all of Rihanna's singles were successful. -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 00:43, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Raining Men is the Urban single only. Her label already stated prior to the album's release that they want to get Urban on board with Rihanna and S&M isn't going to get any Urban spins. Raining Men wasn't a single to go to #1 for 7 weeks on the Hot 100, Urban stations are album buyers and that's what this is for. It's not that hard to understand. RM wasn't doing well on Urban because What's My Name? was killing it on Urban, but now WMN? is peaking and RM is picking up. Urban isn't Rihanna's main format so they're not going to give her the special treatment of having multiple songs smashing as Pop would. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.5.79.82 (talk) 00:24, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Is this an IP that completely understands the gist of things? Kudos to you! Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 00:55, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

That would essentially make it a promotional single, not a real single. This is another case of pompous users dictating what makes a single in the US. If it's a single, then where's the official cover art? Where's the press release? That's right, there isn't. Lack of success does not mean it's not a single, lack of a real campaign does, especially for an artist like Rihanna.

Also, for the record, a RADIO single counts as much as a CLUB single and, especially, a DIGITAL single. Cazxiro (talk) 18:25, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

This has been discussed a million times over... a single cover is not needed for radio singles. The idea with urban singles (which rely more on airplay than sales) is that you request it at radio thus why do you need a single cover? A promotional single has to be in promotion of something. The argument that promotional singles are there to promote the album doesn't fit because that's what all singles are there for. A club single is a single which didn't do well on main charts so the label attempts to demote its status. -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 18:33, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

You just stuck your own foot in your mouth. A promotional single is a single. SO then a Club single is also a single. It's put out there for promotion. "Breakin' Dishes" was put out there to promote the album, as was "Wait Your Turn" AND "Raining Men". They weren't meant to be anything more. However, all of the MAIN singles actually had a campaign AND were all sent out to be remixed. None of those three (excluding the first two, since the albums they came from had a remix counterpart) were pushed. You're also thinking outside of the box, a single not only has to sell the album. A single, especially in this digital age, also has to sell itself. Rihanna hasn't even mentioned "Raining Men" as a single, she's only mentioned three so far: "Only Girl", "What's My Name" and, even before it's release, "S&M". Rihanna herself only counts three singles, so why should the wikipedia page count a promotional single? Cazxiro (talk) 04:29, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Urban singles don't require a separate digital release. You still seem incapable of understanding that all singles are in promotion of the album. There has to be something specific which makes a song a promotional single. "Wait Your Turn" was initially the lead single from Rated R before being used to promote her new website and statements were released that it was only a promo single. "Breaking Dishes" was played by clubs that has nothing to with the label or being sent or not as a single. Any song (literally any song) could chart on Hot Dance/Club Songs because its purely down to DJ choice. Who says that single covers, music videos and digital releases are essential elements of being a single. You are WP:ORing here... cus you're speaking of the digital age etc. well in the digital age songs chart from an album without even being released. Urban singles often have less importance placed upon digital releases as airplay counts for more. Rihanna might have said "S&M" is her third single much like Gaga said The Fame Monster is her second studio album. However per the reality of studio standards, The Fame Monster is an EP in technicality much like "Raining Men" is a single as it was sent for radio airplay which is a single indicator in the US (the music market where airplay has the heaviest importance compared to other markets). Singles are decided not by who says what but by what actually gets released. Another example would be Fresh Out the Oven by Jlo which is always referred to as a single and Lopez herself even said it was one of two required releases before her contract with Sony Music expired. "Fresh Out The Oven" even had a video and single cover yet its not an official single because it wasn't released to radio or to digital download. its an industry given/standard. -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 05:12, 23 January 2011 (UTC) Also think of it this way... since when have you ever seen the music video for a song before its sent to radio? songs are always sent to radio first (or in some cases iTunes) and if its doing ok then a video is filmed. But notice its never the other way round? -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 05:23, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I just want to know what a club single is? Actually I do know what it is, WP:OR. Songs are just played in clubs, and then chart on the Hot Dance Club Play. They are not comparable to singles. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 18:44, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

So then why was Wait_Your_Turn listed the way it was by Misplaced Pages?--mikomango (talk) 20:14, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Because it was released on iTunes to promoted Rated R. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 23:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

AND WHERE IS THE SOURCE THAT RAINING MEN IS AN OFFICIAL SINGLE FROM RIHANNAS ALBUM, OMG ITS NOT A SINGLE IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND, IF WE ASK RIHANNA AND HER PRODUCTION TEAM ABOUT THIS IM 100% SURE THAT THEY SAY THAT S&M IS THE THIRD SINGLE!!!YOU REALLY THINK LOUDS THIRD SINGLE HAS NO MUSIC VIDEO NO ARTWORK, HAS ONLY BEEN RELEASED TO URBAN RADIO, R HASNT EVEN MENTIONED THIS SONG, AND NOT EVEN PROMOTED THE SONGS LIVE, TELEVISION!! YOU REALLY THINK A HOT SINGER WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS HER THIRD SINGLE, PELEASE GIVE A FU##ING SOURCE PEOPLE, GET A LIFE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.154.98.39 (talk) 15:20, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

*Yawn* *yawn* *yawwwnnnn* Lady Gaga also said that The Fame Monster was her second album, when in fact it is an EP. RM got a radio add date, making it a single in the US. Raining Men is a single. Read the above statements and previous discussions before you yell. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 15:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

so why is xtinas song Express listed as a promo, it has been released digitally and to radios, and charted in various countries (inc UK,US,AUS) and its not listed as an single, Raining men only release to urban radio, is listed right away as a oficcial single!!?? whats the difference? why is express listed as a promo --91.154.98.39 (talk) 15:39, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

The "Express" page is inaccurate. It was not released to radio. It wasn't even released digitally, it the link on the article leads to the song as an MP3 download from the Burlesque soundtrack. It only charted as an album track, so technically it is just an song not a promo single. But the "Express" article is not a FA or GA article, so its nothing go by anyway. "Raining Men" is a single, you can't say its not one just because it hasn't charted well. "Hot Tottie" only got a radio add date, and you can't say that wasn't a single. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 15:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes it was released digitally!! --91.154.98.39 (talk) 15:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

No it was not. The link on the page is from the song's Mp3 download as part of the Burlesque soundtrack. That's why its cover is the Burlesque soundtrack. It was just a part of the album. You can pull off that page with any track from an album. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 16:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

and how can you proof it wasnt release digitally...Link --91.154.98.39 (talk) 16:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Did you read anything I said. IT WAS RELEASED AS PART OF THE SOUNDTRACK. Which is why the soundtrack is in parentheses – Express (Burlesque Original Motion Picture Soundtrack). Any song from the soundtrack can be pulled up like that I guess you'd say all of these were singles too ? Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 21:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

IT IS NOT A F*CKIN SINGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!F*CK STUPID WEKIPEDIAApple48 (talk) 05:27, 7 February 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.188.121.242 (talk) 05:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Can't believe you guys are calling "Raining Men" the third single. If this is true, then it doesn't make sense to release "S&M" as the fourth single shortly afterwards. This truly shows why Misplaced Pages isn't perfect. You guys are so blinded by your own rules and agendas...--z33k (talk) 13

14, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Have you never heard of urban and pop singles? Queue Beyonce with "Halo" and "Single Ladies" almost released simultaneously... — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 16:49, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

You forget that "Halo" and "Single Ladies" both received an official music video + Beyonce performed the songs on various TV shows, which is what artist do when they promote an official single. Big difference between your example and "Raining Men". No music video, no promotion. Everything points towards "Raining Men" not being an official single.

If a song is released independently of its parent album, regardless of whether it has a single cover or music video, it is nearly always a single. Performing songs doesn't make them singles. Lots of singles are released without TV performances. If "Raining Me" is not a single, what is it? It was sent to radio twice (at the expense of the label...) — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 19:25, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

A US radio add date means it had an official single release. --ĈÞЯİŒ 1ооо 20:02, 9 February 2011 (UTC)IT NEVER GOT A RADIO ADD DATE.

I agree 100%, you wikipedians have these stupid rules and things...you people just go and see every little detail and not look at the hole picture, its not a single..just because it was released to a radio station doesnt mean its a single, you people have no friends or a life, just sitting on you fu#king computer and just messes whit the pages, maybe your rules sy its a single, BUT IF THE ARRTIST HASNT ANNONCED THAT ITS A SINGLE THEN ITS NOT, YOU CANT JUST PUT IT AS A SINGLE BECOUSE IT WAS RELEASED TO URBAN RADIO, OMG FU#KIN PEOPLE DONT GET DONT YOU, IF WE ASK RIHANNA WE ALL ARE PRETTY SURE SHE SAYS ITS NOT A SINGLE, she hasnt said this is a single, how can you then put it as a single, a single is a song that has been promoted has a music video, art...raining men has none of those things it hasnt even been released to billboard hot 100...ITS A SINGLE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.154.97.58 (talk) 15:22, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

LMAO songs don't get released to the Billboard Hot 100 ... they chart if they are popular enough. It amazes me how much people don't know. Where does it say singles need cover-art and music videos? Especially when individual songs from an album can chart as soon as an album's released, thus iTunes removes many of the individual single listings. After "Raining Men" was released, has Rihanna said anywhere that "S&M" is the third single? No! She said "S&M" would be the third single, before "Raining Men" was sent to radio... She obviously wasn't aware of the label's plans. — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 15:30, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

And the cursing IP address who can't coherently or logically put together an argument should read WP:DUCK — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 15:32, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Artists don't select singles; record labels do. They may have much input, but it is ultimately up to the label they are signed onto. Yves (talk) 17:12, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

blah blah blah....you people just try to get away..she has said in 2011 that S&M is her third single, whats wrong whit you people...just accept that youre wrong...gosh you people....and your rules..fu*k you all who thinks that raining men is a single (probably only the wikipedians..)--91.154.107.187 (talk) 15:50, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

And.. Lil_℧niquℇ №1 of cours your single, dobody wants to be whit somone like you, and when i lookt at your page i thought you where a woman, now i know your a ho-m-o.. thats explains it all.. your so fu*kin stupid, its a single get it??!!!

• Start-Class song articles