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faq page Frequently asked questions (see also: Barack Obama FAQ) Q1: Isn't the use of the terms "conspiracy theories" and "fringe" in the article title and body a violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on neutrality? A1: No. A preponderance of reliable sources have treated and referred to the topic as a fringe conspiracy theory, rather than a legitimate controversy. The article reflects these sources as per Misplaced Pages's policy of verifiability. Consensus on the article title has been established through a RFC and has been repeatedly reaffirmed since. Q2: What about the word "false" or "falsely"? Is it appropriate for a Misplaced Pages article to state that claims are false? A2: Yes. Misplaced Pages policy is that fringe theories should not be given undue weight. Presenting a fringe theory as an unchallenged possibility gives undue credence to that theory. ("...we should not describe these two opposing viewpoints as being equal to each other ... for instance, forms of historical revisionism that are considered by more reliable sources to either lack evidence or actively ignore evidence.") Q3: Can we discuss renaming the article or removing the "fringe" or "false" labeling? A3: Yes. Consensus can change, so new perspective on this issue is welcome, but please do not rehash old arguments. Please review the archives to see past discussions on this topic, and keep in mind Misplaced Pages policies and reliable sources when you frame your discussion. Q4: The Certification of Live Birth isn't a Birth Certificate, is it? A4: Hawaii has never issued a document with the title "Birth Certificate". Instead, their certificate is titled, "Certification Of Live Birth". The law stipulates that it fulfills all of the functions for which anyone needs a birth certificate. It is therefore misleading to suggest that it is somehow not a birth certificate.

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"Birth Certificate"

As I understand it, no "birth certificate" has ever been produced: rather, it was a "certification of live birth," which is not the same thing. Yet this article repeatedly, erroneously, refers to it as a "birth certificate." Has this been discussed before? Can someone point me to the reasoning behind the language use in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.137.113.43 (talk) 20:19, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Ad nauseam. Links to the archives of this talk page, and a search function,can be found at the topof this page. Fat&Happy (talk) 00:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

'Certification of Live Birth' Not Birth Certificate

I'd like to point out that the graphic 'Certification of Live Birth' has the incorrect descriptor below it. In the description, which I have tried to edit several times, it incorrectly identifies the 'Certification of Live Birth' as a "Birth Certificate", which it is not. Please look at the title of the document.

I'm not a major contributor to the Misplaced Pages, I'm not anti-Obama or a birther, but I do like the information on the Misplaced Pages to be as accurate as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dandspach (talk • contribs) 17:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Asked and answered - see above. - Wikidemon (talk) 17:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Would it be helpful to have something about this in the FAQ?Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

It might. It probably wouldn't deter the true believers from making the claims, but it would be easier for editors to point to in response. I would say it would be something like pointing to the Factcheck link describing it as Obama's birth certificate, and the law descriptions(which would be in the archive somewhere, at least some of which from discussions I've had here). Dave Dial (talk) 14:36, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, there's a State of Hawaii web page (http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl) that makes it clear that the term "Birth Certificate" is used to mean "Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth." It may also be of interest to note that although Obama's birth certificate bears the title "Certification of Live Birth," since the time it was issued (2007) Hawaii has introduced some minor changes to the form, and now the only birth certificate available in Hawaii looks much like Obama's but calls itself a "Certificate of Live Birth." -- TheMaestro (talk) 03:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Too many states!

With the article as long as it is, I'm wondering if it's time to carve out the section on eligibility legislation and make a new list article on the topic. Although clearly related to and deriving from the Obama conspiracy theories (something we can source and mention in the new article) it is a distinct subject, with an importance that extends beyond the political fray that triggered it. Any thoughts? - Wikidemon (talk) 20:00, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

That would be one possibility. Or, to make the article more "encyclopedic," it could simply say (something like) "Numerous states introduced legislation seeking to require candidates to demonstrate their eligibility. As commentators noted, some bills were rather obviously aimed at President Obama, and the constitutionality of others were doubted." And then in the footnotes link to all the articles.

Oh: there are even more states with similar legislation; they just haven't made it into RSs yet. --Weazie (talk) 20:59, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Opening sentence

The article is about a theory that says he is not eligible to be president because he does not meet the citizenship requirement. Therefore the opening sentence should read:

"Conspiracy theories about the citizenship of Barack Obama reject the legitimacy of the United States citizenship of President Barack Obama and his eligibility to be President of the United States. " (emphasis added)

Using the conjunction or in place of and is non-sensical, inaccurate and confusing. No one would really care about his citizenship status if it did not raise an eligibility issue. There would be no conspiracy theory. It's not an either/or situation: both elements are needed, both are discussed in this article. Therefore I have restored the word "and" to the sentence.KeptSouth (talk) 10:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

As it currently stands, the sentence is not accurate. In order to dispute his eligibility for the presidency, one need not dispute the "legitimacy" of his citizenship, but only the "natural born" nature thereof. Some theorists, in particular those who advance the "dual citizen at birth" argument, concede he is a legitimate "citizen", just not a "natural born citizen". The and only works if the words "natural born" are also incorporated into the first half of the sentence. Fat&Happy (talk) 14:54, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, we agree completely on the need for "natural born" citizen. I will change the odd term "legitimacy" to "natural born".-Regards KeptSouth (talk) 16:19, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

both parents required to be citizens

Could someone add all the other presidents who would not qualify as "natural born citizens" were it required that both parents be citizens/born citizens? CNN says that there are six other presidents who would not qualify under that standard. 64.229.101.183 (talk) 04:38, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Not sure that's notable enough for inclusion. --Muboshgu (talk) 04:42, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Agreed that it really isn't notable. (Also: Of those six, only Chester Arthur had a parent who was not a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth; for the other five, the non-U.S. born parents had become citizens at the time of the future presidents' births.) --Weazie (talk) 21:10, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

intro too long ?

is the introduction too long? i cant even see the table of contents without scrolling down

i really just want a quick summation,
for more info il scroll down — Preceding unsigned comment added by 336 (talk • contribs) 04:32, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Sourcing of claims

In this article, prior to the recent reverts, there was a subsection that was titled "Claims that Hawaiian born is not 'natural-born' citizen". That subsection had two subsubsections: "Parental citizenship claims" and "Dual citizenship claims". I do not understand why an editor would remove the subsection heading but leave the two subsubheadings. This creates much more of a messy, nonsensical article.Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:30, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

The subsection "Claims that Hawaiian born is not "natural-born" citizen" was tiny and actually included one unsourced sentence that "there have been claims that, although born in Hawaii, Obama does not qualify as a "natural-born citizen". Brandmeister t 00:42, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

No, that subsection also included two subsubsections. The first subsubsection explained the theory that, in order for a person to be a natural born citizen, both parents must be U.S. citizens at the time of that person's birth, even if the birth was in Hawaii. The second subsubsection in that subsection explained the theory that a person cannot be a natural born citizen if he is a dual citizen at birth, even if the birth was in Hawaii.Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:46, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

To Belive the Official Story

To believe the official story of Obama's birth, you would have to accept the premise that his parents stayed in Hawaii over the summer of 1961 rather than journeying back to Kenya. You would have explain why a young interracial couple would spend those months in peaceful, relatively tolerant Hawaii instead of flying halfway around the world to visit an unstable and racially polarized third world country which was just recovering from a civil war. You would also have to explain why his mother would have chosen to give birth in a modern hospital in Honolulu when she could have had her baby in a remote area of Africa. Timothy Horrigan (talk) 06:28, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

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