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Sicily B‑class High‑importance

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I'm surprised this article isn't fuller; Giuliano is an important figure in Sicilian history. I'm going to try to fill it out a bit. Incidentally I believe Pisciotta was Giuliano's cousin. --61.68.103.208 12:20, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Pisciotta

Pisciotta was not Giuliano's cousin. Professor Chandler's book puts this to rest. I'll be doing some work on the article based on this book "King of the Mountain" soon. --Tapered 22:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Thompson beretta?

There's no reference or documentation for the forensic evidence from the Portella della Ginestra massacre. The language, "9 mm Thompson beretta" is suspect. Thompson is a type of American submachine gun never manufactured outside the US to the best of my knowledge. Beretta is the family and brand name of an Italian arms manufacturer. If there is an English translation of any recently discovered forensic evidence, could someone please post a link? If untranslated, could someone please translate and post? Thanks! --Tapered 20:52, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree the article is hopelessly short in references. The historian Giuseppe Casarrubea (see his blog in Italian ) talks about "il mitra corto Thompson" without mentioning "beretta". I am not a weapon expert, but it seems you are right. By the way, I would not only take Chandlers's book as a reference, but have a look at 'Storia segreta della Sicilia: Dallo sbarco alleato a Portella della Ginestra' (The secret history of Sicily: From the allies' landing to Portella della Ginestraof) by Casarrubea as well. Not translated (yet), I am afraid (from a flyer of the publisher: "Following scrupulous study of the papers declassified by Bill Clinton in 2000 at the National Archive and Records Administration (Maryland), together with other Italian secret service documents, never systematically analysed before, Giuseppe Casarrubea reconstructs the map of subversion in Italy in the period featuring the constitution of national unity governments and of paramilitary groups, after April 25th 1945 - the date of Italy’s liberation. In doing so he turns the spotlight on the 1947 massacre of a group of civilians in Portella della Ginestra in Sicily." ) He comes up with the theory that the Portella della Ginestra massacre was an attack by clandestine anti-communist networks (a kind of forerunners of the Gladio network), often composed of former fascist militia's. - Mafia Expert 21:25, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I put the passage in invisible, before seeing your comment. If you do have the book, could you add the reference with chapter & page? Even better if you have some time: quoting some parts of it. Cheers! Tazmaniacs 14:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Monument? A national hero?

Why do you write that there is a monument dedicated to Salvatore Giuliano in MonteLepre, where he was born? There is no monumenti, how could we build a monument dedicated to someone who was nothing more than a killer? And it is not true that Salvatore Giuliano was like Robin Hood, except for some poor and ignorant people. For the most italians he was nothing more than an assassin!!! But, I repeat, the most important thing is that there is not any monument!!! Regards!!!

It has been removed, unless someone can provide relevant sources to prove there is monument. Thanks for your message. - Mafia Expert 20:42, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Some people view Giuliano as a hero, others don't. Note, the poster of this section seems to be from Lombardy, Northern Italy and uses the word "italians" when the topic of this article is a Sicilian seperatist. So they are perhaps bias. Anyway, there is a plaque dedicated to Giuliano for sure as can be clearly seen in this video, though I'm not sure if you could call that a real "monument"... you'd have to ask people in Montelepre if there is any further kind of "monument". - Animagentile (talk) 02:39, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

There is indeed a small monument to the MIS, and by obvious inference to its leader in the area Giuliano, in Montelepre. It was erected in 1980, dedicated by Giuliano's sister. There's a photo in Prof Jaynes Chandler's book. As best I can remember, this same book documents support for Giuliano throughout Italy. He was well-known throughout Europe and written up by a Greek/Swedish journalist, Maria Cyliakus--also well documented by Jaynes Chandler. Tapered (talk) 00:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Writing as an Italian: - support "throughout Italy" for mass-massacring poor hardworking Italian farmworkers and their families gathered for a picnic to celebrate the 1st of May????? ... what an ASTONISHING idea: only possible "support" I can imagine is from the murderer's own direct relatives, relatives of the bloodsucking Vizzini mafia clan and/or hardline fascist worshippers of Junio Valerio Borghese, with whom that bastard had been growing increasingly cosy and whose Decima Mas killer_squads were probably complicit in the massacre! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.32.216.77 (talk) 16:12, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

The victims of Portella della Ginestra are still deeply mourned both in Sicily and in mainland Italy, unlike gun-for-hire killer Giuliano. Here are some links to recent Italian historical documentaries on the Portella della Ginestra killings, which many here view as the first of Italy's long series of "state-backed" Gladio-massacre monstrosities: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrep_mJoc3s&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIcv599AMBk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.32.216.77 (talk) 16:36, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Re Giuliano's so-called Robin Hoodery and "subjugated class status" causing him to become a bandit: he became a bandit because he was caught by the Carabinieri clandestinely transporting grain to mafia-protected blackmarketeers who then resold it to the populace at over ten times the legal price ("their" price for bread was 40 liras per kilo, legal price was 3.9 liras per kilo, av. household income at the time was around 1000 liras per month to feed a whole family - some "Robin Hood"! And what of the "popularity" of Sicilian separatism with the Sicilian populace itself?? Support-level was only 8.8%, whereas the People's Block (Socialists and Communists - whose victory was being celebrated by the poor hardworking rural Sicilian families he and his killer-mates massacred at Portella della Ginestra) were supported by 30% of the island's population, the highest figure of any party in Sicily. Second most popular were the Christian Democrats - full results here: http://it.wikipedia.org/Elezioni_regionali_in_Sicilia_del_1947 The people of Portella della Ginestra paid for that electoral victory with their blood - kinda "strange" how US writers and posters keep on singings his praises... or all too comprehensible??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.43.215.75 (talk) 19:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Thorough Edit

I'm planning to give the article a very thorough going over. I plan to use Professor Jaynes Chandler's book as my guidepost. I have read the book several times over the years, and was once exhaustively familiar with it. I regard the book as close to brilliant, and its gentle, balanced concluding chapters represent historical analysis close to its NPOV best.

Many past edits have been positive and NPOV. These will be respected and incorporated.

Without rancor, I intend to remove the POV additions of SugnuSicilianu. I'm sympathetic to the sentiments, but they're quite POV. I suspect that Francesco Rosi would approve of them. I'd like to suggest to Sugnu that a separate article on the socio-economic situation of Sicily incorporating Sugnu's interpretation and others, with reference to Giuliano, would be a more appropriate venue.

Comments, please!

Tapered (talk) 00:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I hope you will consider more sources. I added some paragraphs from the book Separatism, the Allies and the Mafia: The Struggle for Sicilian Independence, 1943-1948 by Monte S. Finkelstein, published in 1998. Very thorough research about the Sicilian independence movement, not just about Giuliano. But it puts Giuliano in the proper context. Good luck with the edit. - Mafia Expert (talk) 20:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I saw a program on the History Channel today (about the history of organized crime in the U.S.) where they said that Salvatore Giuliano was a supporter of Sicily becoming a part of the United States (and that it was, supposedly, a common position of the Sicilian Independence Movement after WWII). They also claimed that his murder was ordered by the Mafia. Does anyone know if any of these claims actually correct and supported by other sources? If yes, perhaps something along those lines should be mentioned in the article. Nsk92 (talk) 23:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm Italian with a strong interest in post-war Italian history - came across this article by chance and must say I found its contents absolutely AMAZING, in strident contrast with the work of the most reputable Italian and Sicilian historians! For instance: "Giuliano led his remaining men on a raid to the mountain pass Portella della Ginestra on May 1, intending to capture Sicily's most prominent communist, Girolamo Li Causi. However, the event turned into a massacre. Fourteen civilians, including a woman and three children, were killed and more than 30 wounded. Giuliano himself (who fired no shots) stated he ordered his band to fire above the heads of the crowd hoping they would disperse. Some sources accuse the Mafia of infiltrating it and claim mafiosi instead shot at the crowd causing the massacre." Absolute total crap, even the number of victims is incorrect and there is NO indication ANYWHERE in Italian records and/or historical reconstructions that Li Causi was present or expected to be present let ALONE that he himself was the target of the massacre!! Object of the massacre was NOT to kill Li Causi, it was to terrorize the Sicilian peasantry into giving up their widespread demands for land redistribution: in addition to the Villalba attack, note that from 1944 to 1954, no less than 44 Sicilian trade unionists and land-reform activists were murdered by the mafia on behalf of agrarian-aristocratic interests.

More generally: since the Italian, British and US archives for the period have become available to historians some crucial aspects of this period of Sicilian history have been clarified, so my suggestion is: scrap this entire article - apparently based almost entirely on outdated and/or deliberately "romanticized" non-Italian sources - and replace it with a competent translation of the far more up-to-date, very well sourced Italian wiki entry: http://it.wikipedia.org/Portella_della_Ginestra#La_strage —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.32.216.77 (talk) 15:59, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

"Centigrams"

One "centigram" (unit not usted) is equal to 1 kilogram. It would be hard to hide 20 kg ( or even 20 g)of strychnine in a cup. For people still using imperial measurments it would be around 44 pounds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.147.30 (talk) 21:12, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

"Centigrams"

One "centigram" (unit not usted) is equal to 1 kilogram. It would be hard to hide 20 kg ( or even 20 g)of strychnine in a cup. For people still using imperial measurments it would be around 44 pounds.

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