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Open primary

Untitled

I removed "getting more than fifty per cent of the vote in the final round" because this always happens in transferable elections. Does anyone know what the voting system was? More detail? 141.228.106.151 (talk) 16:43, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Claims of M16 membership

Recent deletions relating to the claims of Craig Murray appear to confuse the nature of the material deleted. It did not assert that Mr Stewart was an M16 officer. Clearly, if it had, the source provided would not have been sufficient to support the claim. In fact, the deleted material asserted that Craig Murray has claimed on several occasions that Mr Stewart was an M16 officer. This assertion is factual – and demonstrably and incontestably true. A link was provided in the initial edit, but more can be found here:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/09/iain_dales_brac.html http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/11/another_old_eto.html

Credibility of Murray The question then becomes is the material relevant and credible? As a high profile former diplomat whose public recognition relies on his achievements, it’s clearly relevant. As to credibility of Mr Murray, he was a senior FCO employee for over 20 years, including time in Uzbekistan as the Ambassador, a key partner in the War on Terror. Clearly then he would have knowledge of the security services and, indeed, if high profile individuals were working for the FCO.

The explanation for the deletion suggested that Murray was, in some way, discredited by his sacking. In fact, Murray has always claimed (along with many mainstream media outlets) that he was sacked for exposing British reliance on secret intelligence obtained through torture. A claim that has been subsequently vindicated.

The ostensible reasons given for his sacking – a series of administrative misdemeanours – were all dismissed by the FCO’s own investigators with the exception of one: informing his staff that he was the subject of a disciplinary inquiry. The FCO also gave Murray a substantial financial settlement on his departure. All of this is public domain and so the claim he is somehow inherently untrustworthy bears no weight.

Political rivals? As to his political allegiances and a supposed conflict of interest, Stewart is a PPC, Murray is simply a member of the Liberal Democrats – not an office holder nor a candidate in any forthcoming election. They are not in any meaningful sense political rivals. In any case, Stewart is PPC for Penrith. This is a safe Tory seat – it hasn’t changed hands in over 60 years – so the idea that this is a political intrigue seems unlikely.

Finally, the claims by Murray date from before even Stewart had been selected as a PPC. Indeed, by his own admission Murray he did not rejoin the Liberal Democrats (he left in 2005) until March 2010 – six months after the claims cited.

In summary, I think the deleted material appears to meet the requirements of Misplaced Pages’s biographies of living people.

It is not the job of Misplaced Pages to protect national security or the reputation of public figures. And, while such material may be embarrassing or inconvenient to Mr Stewart, that does not mean that it is has no place on Misplaced Pages.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.118.69 (talk • contribs)

(Added section header and unsigned note) --h2g2bob (talk) 21:51, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree - the statement on the page ("Former British diplomat turned political campaigner Craig Murray has claimed on several occasions that Stewart did not work for the Foreign Office and was, in fact, an agent for the Secret Intelligence Service also known as MI6.") is supported by the reference. --h2g2bob (talk) 22:01, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm unclear about use of a personal blog as a source of information. Even if you cite the source, it's still only a rumour. Since the source is a blog and the claims in it unsubstantiated, should the sentence in the article be revised to indicate that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.189.194.204 (talk) 23:40, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

In the blog, Murray claims to have direct, firsthand knowledge of Stewart's membership (“Let me be plain. Rory Stewart was an officer for Torturers'R'Us (formerly trading as MI6). Now I know many MI6 officers personally and I know the identities of hundreds of them.” http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/11/another_old_eto.html) - so I don't know that 'rumour' is the correct word for the nature of the claim.

Of course, generally speaking, it will always be difficult to have unassailable evidence of M16 membership – it’s conceivable that even a claim or a denial of membership by the individual concerned wouldn’t provide clear proof. However, as above, the statement under debate is factual and is from a source sufficiently credible to make it worthy of inclusion. As per line one of Verifiability: “The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material added to Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true.” —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.244.245.98 (talk) 08:02, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

There is a "denial of membership" by the subject of the article, in the 8 Nov 2010 Telegraph here. I'm not sure how relevant his supposed MI6 involvement is for inclusion - would that go up or down relative to his politic career :p ?

There is a (dismissive) Spectator blog here about Murray's blog but being a blog, even a (supposedly) half decent one, when not by the subject of the article, is not on at all.

Blogs are not verifiable sources. Period. The Times is, and at a stretch so is The Sun, but in this case, and with such a massively dangerous and potentially life-ending piece of information, I'm afraid that WP:BLP dictates that we can only accept 100% perfect sources. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 12:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification; am glad that the contributor has been blocked from making further unsubstantiated claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aeglib (talk • contribs) 22:42, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Controversy and twine

Many people, particularly non constituents will have heard of Stewart for the first time as a result of covereage by the BBC, BBC again, Telegraph, Guardian editorial.
It was also on the Radio 4 program Today very early this morning and I haven't included the tabloids. Irrespective of your feelings or mine, these reporters don't regard it as trivial, the fact that Steward has been interviewed suggests he doesn't think it trivial either. When people will look to Misplaced Pages to find more information about him, they should find a short description of what he said PLUS a fair summary of his answer. Omission of the latter is usually the cause of biased BLPs, usually written by political opponents, which seem to plague Misplaced Pages. Having read both points, the reader has the answer to original question and is entitled to form his own opinion, which may well be that it's trivia. On the basis of WP:Blp#Criticism_and_praise, please leave it in.
Regards JRPG (talk) 11:49, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

We are discussing this edit which I reverted.

An important point is that Stewart has actually had an interesting life and done interesting things, including writing a couple of good books. So, this is not like many of the zero-content puffery articles where the only material is various press releases and tabloid stories. Are you confident that the current fuss about an offhand comment warrants encyclopedic attention? Per WP:NOTNEWS, we are not at all concerned if a current news event is not reported here. The standard procedure is to wait three months: if people are still talking about the twine comment, then we could say it has some enduring encyclopedic quality. But right now, it is just amusement at the misfortunes of the moment. I looked at your four links above: the first three are very light-weight comments, and while the fourth is labeled an "editorial", it is also pretty light weight with a tone that is obviously joining in the fun. Is there a serious article with an analysis of how this incident may affect Stewart's election prospects? Obviously, the effect is bad, but has anyone bothered to write about it in a serious manner, with some opinion on how it factors in with other circumstances. Johnuniq (talk) 12:36, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Strongly agree about the excellent contribution RS has made -and can make to the HOC. Also accept the incident is blown out of proportion, as were many expenses items but that is my POV.

For now, this needs to be in there to allow the reader, not us, to judge its significance or otherwise.

Appearing to criticise your constituency is always notable but the sting is reduced as his viewpoint is given. This section can be removed or reduced to a single line + references when there is more political content.

Regards JRPG (talk) 19:20, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

In the encyclopedia, we are not so concerned with day-to-day political issues, and I personally am not interested in whether Stewart contributes to the HOC or not. My point is that his life has sufficient material for an encyclopedic article, and this week's news regarding a silly comment is probably undue. Would you consider coming back after, say, August 4 and seeing if you can find a current story on the issue. If so, you might argue that a mention is warranted. If not, my point would be confirmed, and the issue does not belong here. Certainly, if there were even a single reliable source with a serious article on this incident claiming it has long-term significance, then a very good case for inclusion of the issue could be made. That's what WP:NOTNEWS means: Deepwater Horizon explosion is updated frequently because it is significant, but we generally do not report events with no overall importance. Johnuniq (talk) 08:58, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Very few backbenchers are in the news for more than a few days. This is now a short item explaining why the significant attention from serious newspapers was no big deal. If you still feel it should be removed, I'll ask the opinion of BrownHairedGirl. I strongly feel it should stay.

regards JRPG (talk) 19:02, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

'Is due' or 'has'

Autochthony asks: - "Stewart left his position at Harvard in March 2010 (maintaining, however, an advisory position there), and is due to step down as Executive Chairman of the Turquoise Mountain Trust in May 2010." 20101030 1335z 81.155.133.133 (talk) 13:32, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Climb1975, 9 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} There are two statements which are factually incorrect and misleading. With minor editing they could improve the accuracy of the article without changing the overall tone or direction. Both statements pertain to Stewart's work in Iraq. He was never a Deputy Governor as this was a position occupied by Iraqi nationals. His role, which is made clear in his published work on the subject, was 'Deputy Governorate Co-ordinator'. The key point is that he was there to be the deputy representative of the coalition working to co-ordinate coalition activity in the governorate. To say that he was a deputy governor is a misleading account of his role and authority, and also misrepresents the structure of the coalition presence in Iraq at that time.

Text of passages in question:

1. "Stewart was a deputy governor of a province of occupied Iraq in 2003-2004" and 2. "he was appointed the Coalition Provisional Authority Deputy Governor of Maysan and Senior Advisor in Dhi Qar"

I propose the following re-wording: 1. "Stewart was a senior coalition official in a province of occupied Iraq in 2003-2004" and 2. "he was appointed the Coalition Provisional Authority Deputy Governorate Co-Ordinator in Maysan and Deputy Governorate Co-ordinator/Senior Advisor in Dhi Qar"

For a credible reference on this subject I refer you to Harvard University: http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/press-releases/stewart-carr-center

Climb1975 (talk) 09:03, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

 Done -Atmoz (talk) 15:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Miscellaneous??

This is trivia by another name. Can we merge it into the main article? JRPG (talk) 17:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

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