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Health Benefits of the Natural Squatting Position

I added an external link to Health Benefits of the Natural Squatting Position. It elaborates on most of the points discussed in the article, and seems to be the prime reference used in its creation. Someone deleted the link, citing WP:LINKS. I would respectfully request some more opinions on this. --Jonathan108 (talk) 01:22, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, it is kind of sketchy. That website is selling a product, and contains purported health benefits, which is an obvious conflict of interests. If you could track down their references, it would be much better.70.179.20.157 (talk) 01:50, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

There are 41 references listed at the end, plus many more embedded in the article. I suggest you check enough of them to satisfy yourself as to the article's reliability and legitimacy.--Jonathan108 (talk) 10:37, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Biased

This article seems biased against the sitting method. The picture indicates that Romans "squatted" on the toilets, but even looking at the picture, it seems unlikely. Everything I had seen (including a "demonstration" by Michael Palin in "Sahara") describes the little trough in front as flowing with water for washing hands while sitting on the opening; this would be impossible in the diagram shown with the person all the way up. One reference that states that sitting began in the 19th Century with indoor plumbing seems to ignore that people sat in outhouses, can't see someone squatting over one of those; the reference cited goes back to the mentioned doctor which claims benefits from squatting, so I question the authority of the citation.75.88.41.182 (talk) 01:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I fixed the reference to cite the original source used by Sikirov. --Jonathan108 (talk) 02:36, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Style

Just a reminder that encyclopedic style asserts facts, without a lot of fol-de-rol in the text to hype the sources. It's "the Earth is approximately round", followed by a proper footnote, not "Dr Hy Anmighty, MD, wrote a peer-reviewed journal article in 2005 in which he indicated that his extensive research led him to conclude that the Earth is approximately round." Please make an effort to omit needless words and reduce redundancy between the text and the footnotes.

Almost the only time you really need to identify or describe authors/dates/etc is if the view is so far outside of current mainstream thought as to be pseudoscience (e.g., "The Flat Earth Society says that the Earth isn't approximately round") or seriously outdated history ("Ancient Greeks thought the Earth was flat.") WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Sitting position and defecation

Use of the sitting position for defecation may play a role in the development of a hiatus hernia.
--User:Brenont (talk) 18:37, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Merck reference

Someone added a disadvantage of squatting, saying that it "can lead to deposition of feces on the clothing or ankles, which is both unsanitary, and dangerous, as feces can contain many pathogenic bacteria, viruses, and parasites." They cited The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy, Section: Gastrointestinal disorders. I can't access that reference online, and doubt very much that it talks about deposition of feces on clothing or ankles, so I'm going to delete the claim. If the reference is pertinent and not just a description of pathogens in feces, then it can be restored. --Jonathan108 (talk) 02:17, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, that particular reference can be easily accessed online: http://www.merckmanuals.com. The bit about deposition of feces on clothing was a carryover from another portion of the article. I will not restore until a comment is made here, or one week has passed without comment. Ronk01 talk 22:35, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I have a slow dialup connection and can't access that reference. Anyway, you haven't given a page number or anything specific. I shouldn't have to search an entire reference book to figure out what you're referring to. Quote the relevant passage here if you think it's relevant. If it just talks about pathogens, then you're doing original research to infer that this is a disadvantage of squatting.--Jonathan108 (talk) 02:05, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I'll post the quote when I get the time, which does contain a specific reference to squatting. Ronk01 talk 15:33, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

It looks like this article could be a copyvio

Almost word-for word from this source:http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/11432917. It looks like this article was based almost exclusively on that source. Ronk01 talk 15:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Or, vice versa.--Jonathan108 (talk) 17:37, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

The article contains less information than the source, a classic example of redaction to avoid similarity. Ronk01 talk 21:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

That link is obviously a mirror, as evidenced by 1. the "enwiki" in its url, 2. the "Wikimedia Foundation. 2010" at the bottom of its article text, and 3. stray wikimarkup in the middle of the text. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 05:26, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Some sources that might be useful

A Slate magazine feature, not a MEDRS, but a nice overview. It linked to this study (primary, n=6, 'Conclusion: The results of the present study suggest that the greater the hip flexion achieved by squatting, the straighter the rectoanal canal will be, and accordingly, less strain will be required for defecation'). There's some natural health movement advocacy such as this and this. Suggested medical issues involve better muscular support for the pelvic floor, less stretching of the pudendal nerves, better sealing of the ileocecal valve, alignment of the rectoanal canal, relaxation of the puborectalis and anal sphincter muscles, and increased intra-abdominal pressure to aid in full elimination. Not sure about any of that, but at least it's a proposed mechanism. And a few more (pubmed)... On point: , , , , , , , , , ; and background , , , . Ocaasi (talk) 18:40, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Image

Why is the image in the lead section such a very minimalistic drawing? Is it that difficult to get a photograph of a real toilet? Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 15:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Move proposal

It has been proposed in this section that Defecation postures be renamed and moved to Human defecation postures. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Defecation postures → Human defecation postures – As for anatomy pages like Human eye or Human brain, also animals defecate in different positions, see for example File:Dog_defecation.JPG or File:Furet-position-defecation.jpg. --Superchilum 07:29, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

We can still get a generic Defecation postures going after the move right? There should also be a parent article for Human defecation. Marcus Qwertyus 01:06, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support WP:Systematic bias 65.93.15.213 (talk) 04:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

anorectal angle blockquote

The quote is of someone summarizing an article. Why don't we reference the article in question rather than this "metaquote"? Anybody have access to this "classic" Taggart article? Cliff (talk) 04:10, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

1. Burkitt DP (1981). "Hiatus hernia: is it preventable?" (PDF). Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 34 (3): 428–31. PMID 6259926.

• Requested moves