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Project overtagging?

I wonder if you might be overtagging the Stars in astrology article by adding it to the agriculture project and history of science project. In any case, from my perspective, since you are not a member of those projects it seems presumptuous to add anything. It may be more constructive and less disruptive to use categories to improve how the article is organized into the project. Jojalozzo 15:29, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

No it should not be project overtagging, since the study of the cycles of the stars in ancient times is the basis on which astronomy grew from. And the cycles were studied to determine the correct time to plant. So, it would fall under history of science, astronomy and farming. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 05:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps, but consider that it is a very minor article with very few other articles linking in to it. I am sure the stars were also used for navigation in ancient times (and still), so should we then also add it to the Projects that deals with navigation? The Project Ships and Project Transport among others? Birds also navigate by the stars, so let's add Project Birds..

Where will it stop?

The imperfect rule of thumb is to go to the main article(s) related to the WikiProject and check what LinksHere. If an article is not linking to it then it is probably not under the scope of the Project. Of course that can change if an article gets more developped. MakeSense64 (talk) 06:01, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

This specific article covers the relationship between the stars and the equinox and solstices, which I would think, is where astronomy and astrology meet. And it deals with it in a historical context. I do see the point you're getting at. And that's why I only added these particular tags, instead of all possible WPPs. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 06:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The specific article also mentions 'medieval', 'Persians', 'kabbalistic', and so on..

It is a minor article, so it should only be put under the Project that directly covers it, in this case that is clearly 'Astrology', as we can see from the page title already.

Why don't you let the members of these various Projects decide which articles they want to take under their scope? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MakeSense64 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

So, you're saying, don't ever add any WikiProject banner? 65.93.15.213 (talk) 06:27, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

At the least, please ask on the project talk page first. Jojalozzo 11:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Where did you see me say that you should never add any WikiProject template?

A few things puzzle me, maybe you can clarify.

When I was checking out your history to understand what is going on I clicked on about 3 other Talk pages you had edited and in two cases you were adding WikiProject templates to articles that are just in AfD procedure. Is this a coincidence (AfD are not that common) , or is it a subtle attempt to influence AfD discussions by quickly putting these articles under one or more Project?

Several days ago you added Algol to WikiProject Astrology, without leaving an edit summary about it. This was very convenient for two editors who were just arguing the case that a large astrology section should be added into an astronomy article. You also seem to announce that change here and next an editor thanked you for adding it to WikiProject Astrology and they went on to use the 'new scope' in further discussion on Talk:Algol. Only then I noticed this new 'addition', but how did these other editors know so quickly about it? You also encouraged them to add more WikiProject Astrology templates to a lot of star pages.

In the Algol discussion another editor suggested that astrology of Algol should be put in Stars in astrology, and somehow one of your next edits was adding several WikiProject templates to Stars in astrology, one of them Astronomy Project. Was this also meant to be convenient for the arguments of these editors, or is there no connection? All mere coincidences?

You will probably understand why this activity looks puzzling to me. Your comment would be appreciated. MakeSense64 (talk) 13:11, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I read AfDs and then read the articles and their talk pages, and then sometimes I tag them, and sometimes I leave an opinion on the AfD page. I'm not trying to influence AfDs at all by bannering them. I treat it like categorizing articles, if I stumble upon an article (say listed at AfD) which needs categorization, I will categorize it. So, if the article has no WikiProject banners at all, I'll see if I think I should add some. Sometimes I may add one as well.

Per Algol, I noticed a notice at WT:AST, looked at the page, and the discussion on the page. Since the article treats the astrological context of the star, I added the astrology project banner. The discussion was over whether a section header or not should be in the article. And as I read the discussion in the Algol talk page about the issues involved, I found the article Stars in astrology, which I then read, and applied some wikiproject banners to. So, I looked at WP:Astronomy, then to the article, then to WikiProject astrology, then to Stars in astrology. As to how other editors knew about it, someone other than me posted a notice at WP astrology (about all stars, and in particular Algol), someone other than me posted a notice at WP astronomy about Algol.

If you read the WT:AST page, you'll notice I've entered into discussions on it. (such as discussing recent additions to Gamma-ray burst)

I do not think I encouraged them to add alot of astrology banners, I rather gave my opinion on the matter.

Indeed, I frequently read WT:AST, WT:ASTRO and WT:PHYSICS. I am not someone who practices astrology, I think it's a load of bunk (especially Western Astrology, whose practitioners couldn't identify a star if you pointed in the sky at night, since they use tables and not a telescope, and call Pluto a planet instead of it being a piece of flotsam).

65.93.15.213 (talk) 06:59, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

OK, that clarifies things. The editor who thanked you for adding tags, is the same editor who criticised me for adding tags (on articles needing improvement or sources). That looked strange to me.

I guess you agree that I didn't say that you should never add tags for WikiProject.

But I think there is a big difference between adding a WikiProject tag to an article that has none at all, and adding 3 WikiProject tags to a minor article that already has one.

I strongly suggest you give an edit summary when adding an article to a WikiProject. Editors who follow the article may think it is only a typo that was fixed, because adding a WikiProject tag only adds a few characters to the counter. So it easily goes unnoticed. And it can raise unnecessary suspicion, as in this case.

Adding a notice to the Talk page of the WikiProjects you have added tags for would also help, especially when it concerns several articles. The members on a WikiProject can check which articles have been added to their scope, but in Projects with little or no activity there is often nobody to check it. So it is quite possible that plenty of minor articles get added to a certain Project, without anybody being there to notice or correct it. That is potentially disruptive. MakeSense64 (talk) 08:01, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Ok, so be more judicious with selection of project banners, give an edit summary for bannering, add a notice to WPP.

As for article tags... I notice that some editors think that articles should contain many cleanup tags, other users think it is disruptive and should contain only the general cleanup tag. It appears to be a philosophical issue, since I've noticed administrators on both sides of the argument. This lack of clarity on the issue by the community isn't helpful.

65.93.15.213 (talk) 08:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

As one of the concerns by MakeSense mentioned AfD, I noticed that Talk:Ophiuchus (astrology) is untagged. However Ophiuchus (astrology) is up for deletion. If I ask WP:Astrology whether I should add the astrology banner to this article, they would become informed about the deletion nomination, since they may read the article that I'm asking to banner. This leads to a conundrum, as there doesn't seem to be a second project to notify to balance the notification of Astrology. WP:Constellations no longer exists (it was merged into WP:Astronomical Objects 4 years ago); as a current controvery seems to revolve around astrology, astronomy, and articles, with an NPOVboard notice...

As to how I found this article, I saw it on AfD.

65.93.15.213 (talk) 08:03, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Good you add that last sentence, because mentioned article was put up for deletion by the same mentioned editor.

You bring up a good point, I think that's only one of the good reasons why to not tag AfD for additonal WikiProjects.

Since the AfD procedure only takes a week or so, you can always add your tags after the AfD discussion is over.

So why the hurry? The tag can wait a week, especially if you are not very closely involved with either the article or the WikiProject. MakeSense64 (talk) 08:11, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll be off on other things when they close, unless I'm actively participating in the deletion discussion. (such as copyediting or categorizing other articles up for cleanup or other processing). (though in this particular case, since it appears on my talk page, I'll probably remember)

65.93.15.213 (talk) 08:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Though I suppose, I could post a notice on the talk page of the article saying that it should probably have a wikiproject banner for some WPP. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 03:04, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

The simple question remains: why not just wait one week if it is an AfD?

Since you say your adding tags has nothing to do with influencing AfD discussions, then for sure it can wait till AfD is setlled, or not? MakeSense64 (talk) 04:37, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

If there's an appropriate WPP to banner it with, then an article would be better to be tagged, no? As for why not wait, I did say before, I'd probably wouldn't remember it then. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 05:58, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Response from WPMILHIST: You don't really need our permission to add the project banner to an article you think is suitable. If you're not sure by all means ask, but if you were to get it wrong the worst that would happen is someone else will remove the banner. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 06:15, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Response from WPMED: you don't need permission though it doesn't hurt to ask if unsure. If you add it and someone disagrees, they can revert. If that happens, I would just move on. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 04:32, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Please use edit summaries

I don't want to pile on but I noticed you rarely provide an edit summary with your edits. It improves collaboration on the project if you let your colleagues know what and why you are making edits and the edit summary is one of the only ways you can communicate that. Thanks for all your work here, Jojalozzo 15:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Multiple accounts?

While you are quite active with this IP account, I wonder if you also have one or more registered (named) accounts that you use. If not I suggest you switch to a named account to help maintain the thread of your work. If you use more than one account I hope you are aware of Misplaced Pages policy regarding that. Jojalozzo 14:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I have no registered accounts. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 08:01, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. Since you are so active it would benefit both you and the project if you used a registered account. If your IP address changes, you lose all your edit history and start over or inherit the history of whomever had your new IP before you. A registered account will stay with you no matter what your IP address is. (Unfortunately you will also lose the edit history of this IP address when you start using the registered account but that will be the last time it happens.) Jojalozzo 14:05, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I came here thinking I'd suggest the same thing, simply because you deserve lasting credit for your contributions (I wish I'd created an account earlier than I did, for the privacy benefits if nothing else). Of course it's up to you, but having made the transition I am very happy I did. -- Scray (talk) 14:30, 19 July 2011 (UTC)