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Revision as of 18:18, 21 July 2011

Death Start‑class Mid‑importance

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Azerbaijan Start‑class Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Azerbaijan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Azerbaijan-related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AzerbaijanWikipedia:WikiProject AzerbaijanTemplate:WikiProject AzerbaijanAzerbaijan Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

I want to ask if its possible to add another section to this article talking about some info i recently read about stating the skeletons weren't Azeris but Armenians. How when they found the mass grave they automatically figured it out that those skeletons belonged to Azeris and they had been killed by Armenians, how foreign experts never studied the skeletons, how there is actually no records of Armenians killing Azeris in Guba but there are records of a few hundred Armenians being transfered there in 1918. Korganov stated in a telegram "В конце апреля 1918г. комиссар города и области Губа Геловани направил председателю Военно-революционного комитета Корганову телеграмму следующего содержания: "Сегодня, 24 апреля, я освободил 115 армян, которые были заключены в губинской тюрьме. Они все лишились своего имущества. Я предпринял меры для возврата их собственности. Они просят денежной помощи от Армянского национального совета. Как можно скорее вышлите на мой адрес. Материальное состояние критическое… кроме города Губа в других местах тоже есть плененные армяне. Предпринимаю меры для их освобождения".

here is a section that talks about the supposed Stepan Shahumyan letter: Позабыв об обещании представить общественности результаты анализа почвы и привлечь зарубежных специалистов, Агаев выступил с очередным ошеломляющим заявлением. По его словам, делать выводы о том, чти именно армяне стоят за убийством захороненных в Губе останков, "позволяют как исторические факты, так и результаты исследования найденных в захоронении черепов". И конкретизировал: "Среди архивных материалов есть письмо Степана Шаумяна Амазаспу. В нем отмечается, что "основной целью вашего прибытия в Азербайджан является распространение большевизма. Но это – второй вопрос. Основной же ваш долг – уничтожение местных турок. Это – национальный долг". Еще смешнее: Г.Агаев утверждает, что "исследования показали, что резня произошла с 3 по 10 мая…" (воистину научное достижение, оказавшееся под силу только азербайджанским ученым). И далее: "Результаты исследования черепов, найденных в захоронении, также свидетельствуют о том, что геноцид произошел 90 лет назад, Люди, чьи тела мы обнаружили, были убиты в других местах и захоронены здесь…В ходе исследований выяснилось, что эти люди были раздеты и зверски убиты с использованием острых предметов… а на некоторых скелетах черепа оторваны от туловища".

Отметим, что загадочное и скорее всего несуществующее письмо Шаумяна до сих пор не было опубликовано ни в одном азербайджанском сборнике архивных документов.

so can a section be added to talk about these or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ninetoyadome (talk • contribs) 03:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

You might want to start by translating all that. Whatever new information is to be added, needs a reference. Good luck. Boneyard90 (talk) 03:43, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Ninetoyadome makes a pretty good point. The fact that Azerbaijani authorities naturally assumed that these skeletons were those belonging to Azerbaijanis is somewhat reminiscent of how every now and then authorities in Turkey claim that the skeletons unearthed in the cities in the eastern provinces belong to those of Turks, and not the Armenians who were massacred there in 1915. No forensic evidence is carried out and it's obvious that such proclamations are political in nature. The same seems to apply to this article, which is sourced by Azerbaijani newspapers that are so propagandistic in tone and letter that their claims are almost certainly questionable. Not a single third-party source is given and the reader is told to believe what sources closely oriented to the government want their audiences to believe, which was why I added the tag.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Any information presented as "fact" in Misplaced Pages should be grounded on reliable sources. I wonder of there are any for this particular instance. -- Ashot  12:45, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Here's sources: , Victoria46 (talk) 07:06, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

First source: where do you read about Armenians there?

Second source: seems to be self-published (xlibris.com) and not in compliance with WP:RS. -- Ashot  08:33, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

According to rules self-published material can be used in certain circumstances. If you like to make selections, we could be selective in all Armenian articles as well. Should we do it together? Victoria46 (talk) 12:14, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

You can go to particular articles and raise questions there. I encourage you to do so as that is the correct thing to do when one notices something wrong. And if something is wrong somewhere, it still doesn't mean it should be replicated in other places too.

As pertaining to this particular talkpage, you have to unveil those certain circumstances in order to be able to use that self-published source. -- Ashot  14:48, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

That was sort of a Question of irony. You come here demanding sources, which have been sufficiently supplied in the article by the way, but ignore the fact that half of Armenian articles base the text of articles on Armenian sources. If an editor of good faith, why don't you question those first and then come asking me that? The fact of the massacre is undeniable. A whole investigation commission produced results, foreign officials and journalists have visited the site and nobody has questioned what Armenian Dashnaks and Russian bolsheviks did here, but yet you are here questioning it :) how funny. Victoria46 (talk) 06:19, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

The funny thing is that you fill the talkpage with useless text, but fail to answer my simple question about certain circumstances. Without good grounds the self-published source cannot be considered reliable. -- Ashot  06:48, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

What good grounds?!! Go look at the main page to see the good grounds, pictures, information about commission. If a herd of terrorists massacred civilians and concealed the fact for decades and now the commission has performed analysis including DNA to find people of certain ethnicities in the grave, what other grounds are you looking for? I'll add more sources soon as I find them. Don't you worry. Victoria46 (talk) 11:42, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Can you possibly tell us how exactly the Azerbaijani government determined that the remains belonged to those of Azerbaijanis and Jews? Was any forensic evidence carried out or did it automatically assume that since there was a massive pile of bones then the only culprits could be Armenians? Like I wrote above, something smells fishy here, and this not only because of the fact that the Turkish government regularly does this in sites in eastern Turkey where Armenians were massacred wholesale. This article has no neutral sources to verify anything that has been coming out of Baku. For all we know, these could be the remains of massacred Armenians...--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 16:58, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Obviously, this article needs to be totally rewritten. I wonder if we have any reliable sources on the matter. -- Ashot  18:18, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

• Start-Class Death articles
• Mid-importance Death articles
• Start-Class Azerbaijan articles
• Mid-importance Azerbaijan articles
• WikiProject Azerbaijan articles