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::I am not sure if this change would be an improvement. We already have ''The materializations of vibhuti (holy ash) and other small objects such as rings, necklaces and watches by Sathya Sai Baba were a source of both fame and controversy...'' in the lead, and the article does not shy away from the sexual allegations. Adding''...one of the most famous and controversial Indian gurus'' in the first sentence seems an over-emphasis. ] (]) 14:49, 19 September 2011 (UTC) ::I am not sure if this change would be an improvement. We already have ''The materializations of vibhuti (holy ash) and other small objects such as rings, necklaces and watches by Sathya Sai Baba were a source of both fame and controversy...'' in the lead, and the article does not shy away from the sexual allegations. Adding''...one of the most famous and controversial Indian gurus'' in the first sentence seems an over-emphasis. ] (]) 14:49, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:::On the one hand, you seem to be right but on the other hand, Sathya Sai Baba's fame and controversy is not based exclusively on so called materializations. Fame and controversy can be found in practically any aspect of his life and teachings: his divine claims, his relationships with his students and devotees, his omniscience and omnipotence, his charity projects and so on. I agree that materializations are a special feature that makes SSB special among other Indian gurus. But his fame and controversy are far more general characteristic. That is why, I dare to think it might be an improvement, provided that the sentence about materializations is edited to escape repetition.--] (]) 18:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC) :::On the one hand, you seem to be right but on the other hand, Sathya Sai Baba's fame and controversy is not based exclusively on so called materializations. Fame and controversy can be found in practically any aspect of his life and teachings: his divine claims, his relationships with his students and devotees, his omniscience and omnipotence, his charity projects and so on. I agree that materializations are a special feature that makes SSB special among other Indian gurus. But his fame and controversy are far more general characteristic. That is why, I dare to think it might be an improvement, provided that the sentence about materializations is edited to escape repetition.--] (]) 18:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
::::The summary should state why he was controversial (mainly materializations and sexual abuse), otherwise it is not very informative. By the way, his teachings were not controversial, but it is true there were many reasons why he was controversial. ] (]) 06:02, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

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To-do list for Sathya Sai Baba: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2011-04-25

  1. Include a "Bibliography" section, with informations about his writings (the several "Vahini" books that Sathya Sai Baba has written)
  2. Add some more info from Erlendur Haraldsson's book, e.g. M. Krishna (partially done)
  3. Improve the article based on Jossi proposals recommended by the arbitration commitee.
  4. Remove unreliable and poorly sourced material from the article
  5. Add some more info from the book "Love is my form" (the book cost USD 99.00 and it may be difficult to order)
  6. Write about the Prashanti Council in the section organizations
  7. Ensure only professional critics are sourced, rather than unfounded authors who otherwise specialize in other areas.
  8. Add more interesting pictures, such as that of his books, centers etc.
  9. Add a photo of Sathya Sai Baba (done)


Swamis Age

The avatar was 85. Not 84 because, when God decides to incarnate in this world, it is counted diffrently. Wikipeidia is not precise. The avathars life stars before birth thats why his 85 year bithday was celeberated november 2010.

Consistently in Misplaced Pages, someone's age is calculated from the date his Mom gave birth being age 0. That is, the duration walking the Earth. --Javaweb (talk) 21:55, 18 July 2011 (UTC)Javaweb

New York Times explains gold watch illusion

Rao's contacts with swamis have brought him embarrassment more than once. In 1993, he seemed moved during a visit to his native state of Andhra Pradesh when a well-known guru, Sai Baba, appeared to produce a gold watch out of thin air. But Indian newspapers had considerable fun at Mr. Rao's expense when film of the event that had been taped by an Indian state television team was played back in slow motion and revealed the Mr. Baba had employed sleight-of-hand techniques commonly used by magicians.

— John F. Burns (October 10, 1995). "India's 'Guru Busters' Debunk All That's Mystical". New York Times.

<-- Please keep this comment and the ref section at the end of the article -->

References

Experience is better than rumor

I personally experienced supernatural events on a trip to visit Sai Baba that are not part of any magicians repertoire. These include gifts of gold jewelry by total strangers on Sai Babas behalf, telepathic communication and shaktipat. This was not a trick or a ruse. I saw vibhtti manifested and could clearly see his golden aura eminating from his body. I am not trying to do anything than bear witness to the facts as I experienced them and offer that Baba's spirit is kind, his wisdom is deep and his message is pure. Sai Ram. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.195.101 (talk) 04:25, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Personal testimony cannot be used in Misplaced Pages. You might imagine the mess that would arise if this were not so. We can only work with reputable sources. Rumiton (talk) 12:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure). Jenks24 (talk) 11:23, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


Sathya Sai Baba → Sathya Sai – Titles and honorifics should not be used when naming an article. Avenue X at Cicero (talk) 12:23, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

But the point is, SSB referred to himself many a times as "Sathya Sai." "Baba" was only an honorific Hindu's add to show respect towards someone. Avenue X at Cicero (talk) 19:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
You are right that he called himself often "Sathya Sai", but he declared himself a reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba (i.e. "Sai Baba") in the 1940s. Sai Baba was the name that stuck. "Sathya" was only added sometimes to distinguish him from Shirdi Sai Baba. Andries (talk) 07:41, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
The consensus seems clear. I suggest the article be dropped from the list of suggested/contested moves. Rumiton (talk) 01:57, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sathya Sai Baba as a controversial figure

I suggest a following edition of the first sentence of the preamble.
Śri Sathya Sai Baba (Telugu: సత్య సాయిబాబా), born as Sathyanarayana Raju (23 November 1926 – 24 April 2011) was one of the most famous and controversial Indian gurus. He was a spiritual figure, mystic, philanthropist, and educator.
My suggestion is based on the following sources:

  • The Economist

Sathya Sai Baba (Satyanarayana Raju), one of India’s most controversial gurus, died on April 24th, aged 85 http://www.economist.com/node/18678803

  • India Today

As India's most enduring god-man enters his 75th year, his spirituality rests uneasily with controversy.

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/20001204/cover.shtml

  • The Gardian

But though revered by millions around the world as a living god, he was a controversial figure, criticised by some as a fraud protected by political influence. His later years were dogged by allegations of sexual abuse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/24/sri-sathya-sai-baba-dies

  • The Telegraph

Sathya Sai Baba, who died yesterday, probably aged 84, was India's most famous, and most controversial, Swami or holy man, and one of the most enigmatic and remarkable religious figures of the last century.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/religion-obituaries/8471342/Sathya-Sai-Baba.html

  • The BBC

To his devotees, Sai Baba was an avatar, an incarnation of God in human form, who appeared on Earth to preach his inspirational message in one of India's poorest corners.

To his critics, he was a fraudster dogged for years by controversial allegations of sexual abuse yet protected from prosecution by virtue of his powerful political sway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13153536

  • Time

He was also accused of faking miracles and of being a sexual predator. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2068080,00.html

  • CBS News

Sai Baba was also mired in controversies, with several news reports about allegations of sexual abuse and fake miracles.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/24/501364/main20056844.shtml

  • The New York Times

Rationalist critics led campaigns against him, calling him a charlatan and his miracles fake. And several news reports accused him of sexually abusing followers — accusations that he denied, and for which he was never charged.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/25/world/asia/25saibaba.html?_r=1

  • India Express

From ordinary believers to the President of India, his clout spread far and wide but controversy also followed Puttaparthi Sathya Sai Baba all along.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/who-was-sathya-sai-baba/780598/

  • The Los Angeles Times

After declaring himself the reincarnation of a Hindu saint in 1940 he built a loyal following, including politicians, and celebrities, despite allegations of sexual abuse.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/25/local/la-me-sathya-sai-baba-20110425

I am not an experienced Misplaced Pages user and I am not sure if I need to include all these links into the final text to support this statement. I will be happy if someone can do it for me.--Open 2 (talk) 11:54, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure if this change would be an improvement. We already have The materializations of vibhuti (holy ash) and other small objects such as rings, necklaces and watches by Sathya Sai Baba were a source of both fame and controversy... in the lead, and the article does not shy away from the sexual allegations. Adding...one of the most famous and controversial Indian gurus in the first sentence seems an over-emphasis. Rumiton (talk) 14:49, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
On the one hand, you seem to be right but on the other hand, Sathya Sai Baba's fame and controversy is not based exclusively on so called materializations. Fame and controversy can be found in practically any aspect of his life and teachings: his divine claims, his relationships with his students and devotees, his omniscience and omnipotence, his charity projects and so on. I agree that materializations are a special feature that makes SSB special among other Indian gurus. But his fame and controversy are far more general characteristic. That is why, I dare to think it might be an improvement, provided that the sentence about materializations is edited to escape repetition.--Open 2 (talk) 18:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
The summary should state why he was controversial (mainly materializations and sexual abuse), otherwise it is not very informative. By the way, his teachings were not controversial, but it is true there were many reasons why he was controversial. Andries (talk) 06:02, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
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