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::There are no links and informations available that he is of Togolese origin.--] (]) 16:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::There are no links and informations available that he is of Togolese origin.--] (]) 16:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
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This article was nominated for deletion on 15 September 2011. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.
Starting article
Starting article. Breaking news. Subject is notible in the same was as Jérome Kerviel and Nick Leeson
This discussion is going to be had at some point, so I think I'm going to bring it up now. Frankly, my feeling is that if Nick Leeson deserves a page this guy should get a page too. NickCT (talk) 13:49, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I thought the close was incorrect. More than half the participants said KEEP without agreeing with others who said ""move" or "possible move". The issue of WP:1E seemed to be sufficiently addressed by the second paragraph of the WP:BLP1E policy (please read it) which might be called the "Hinckley Exclusion." If the event is sufficiently important, and the person's role in it very major, then the policy doesn't apply. This exclusion applies here without a doubt. Smallbones (talk) 22:58, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
The speedy keep was incorrect? I think perhaps what you meant to say was, you agree with the keep, which was the pith of the close, but don't agree with my aside in the close about moving (renaming) the article. I closed the discussion and removed the AfD template from the article. However, I didn't move the article, I asked here first. Adoboli does not nearly meet the "Hinckley" level of notability put forth in WP:1E. So far he's not even so notable as, say, Jaycee Dugard (see Kidnapping of Jaycee Lee Dugard). Hence, following the policy, the title of this article shouldn't Adoboli's name. On the other hand, I don't think 1E is one of the more helpful editorial policies on en.WP, because it does stir up lots of needless back and forth about article titles. 1E or not, so far I see no consensus for a move and the title of this article should (and will) be that of a consensus. Gwen Gale (talk) 23:20, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
My two cents - I agree with TheFreeloader. WP:RM is the right way to go. I'm currently neutral as to the rename. Frankly, I think it will be obvious in future that this guy meets the WP:BLP1E, "exception" clause. Obviously, I realize that WP isn't meant to be a crystal ball.NickCT (talk) 00:41, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
You're correct - it was the aside to the close that I objected to. It's clear that Adoboli isn't a Hinckley, not even a Bernard Madoff but I think the exception goes further down than that. There are now 5221 news articles at google news on the guy and it is all about serious stuff - $2.3 billion. The net loss from Madoff was only about $12 billion. As far as all time financial losses, KA is certainly in the top 10. Smallbones (talk) 00:44, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
2.3 billion is a blip for the central banks. UBS has gotten many times that in bailouts over the last few years. However, I'm indeed with you on holding off with any renaming until consensus shows up one way or another. Gwen Gale (talk) 01:09, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Oh, yes. That's why I didn't barge on and move the article after closing the AfD. WP:1E is fuzzy and moreover, sometimes I wonder how much consensus it even has as a policy. Either way, I don't see a consensus here for moving the article to another name. Taken altogether, I think it's much more worthwhile to keep an eye on the article content and sourcing as to WP:BLP, than to spend too much time on WP:1E. I think all the input in this thread has been helpful, by the way, it's spot on what talk pages are meant to be. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:38, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Agree all around with those comments. It would be nice is WP:1E could be made less "fuzzy" by reworking "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one". I wonder if any kind of objective test could be imposed..... but perhaps that's a thought for the village pump. NickCT (talk) 19:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Or one could argue that there were really two events here, the first billion and then the second billion... Just kidding. Yet it was not just the amount lost but the nature of the event, the way he reached the position, etc. that make the plot non-trivial. So the protagonist and the supporting cast are all interesting in their own rights, beyond the event (or two). History2007 (talk) 02:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
