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Revision as of 01:40, 10 February 2012 editWill Beback (talk | contribs)112,162 edits Criticism: cmt← Previous edit Revision as of 01:52, 10 February 2012 edit undoMonicaPignotti (talk | contribs)185 edits CriticismNext edit →
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While I have criticized Hassan, I have not inserted any original research into this article, only validly referenced sources. Is there any policy against Misplaced Pages authors not being critics? Are there policies against people who are clearly supporters and biased in that direction being authors? The statements by "coffeepusher" such as his unsubstantiated assertions regarding the author of this critique are hardly unbiased. If his supporters biased in favor of him are allowed to post, why shouldn't a critic, as long as I abide by Misplaced Pages's rules, which I have? <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 01:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> While I have criticized Hassan, I have not inserted any original research into this article, only validly referenced sources. Is there any policy against Misplaced Pages authors not being critics? Are there policies against people who are clearly supporters and biased in that direction being authors? The statements by "coffeepusher" such as his unsubstantiated assertions regarding the author of this critique are hardly unbiased. If his supporters biased in favor of him are allowed to post, why shouldn't a critic, as long as I abide by Misplaced Pages's rules, which I have? <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 01:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:There is more to Misplaced Pages than valid sources. There is also NPOV. Specifically, Coffeepusher has referenced the clause on weight, ]. Articles should be balanced, without placing undue emphasis on issues. Extensive quotes from a single source give the appearance of undue weight. Given the shortness of the overall biography, few lines would appear more appropriate than 284 words. :There is more to Misplaced Pages than valid sources. There is also NPOV. Specifically, Coffeepusher has referenced the clause on weight, ]. Articles should be balanced, without placing undue emphasis on issues. Extensive quotes from a single source give the appearance of undue weight. Given the shortness of the overall biography, few lines would appear more appropriate than 284 words.
:It'd be better if neither critics nor supporters made this article into a battle ground. &nbsp; <b>]&nbsp; ]&nbsp; </b> 01:40, 10 February 2012 (UTC) :It'd be better if neither critics nor supporters made this article into a battle ground. &nbsp; <b>]&nbsp; ]&nbsp; </b> 01:40, 10
February 2012 (UTC)

Again, I have to challenge that this is an issue of "weight" since the majority of this article is highly positive with only a small section on criticism. I put in the criticism, precisely to give the article some balance. I would be willing to compromise, however, and shorten the paragraph if that would satisfy your requirement. ] (]) 01:51, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

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The Publication of Hassan's book

There was a statement in the article about "the last publication" of Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control. The book is till being published. Check Amazon. I think a more accurate rendering would be edition rather than publication

Criticism

I added some properly referenced criticism from known cult experts of Hassan's work and this was deleted, due to "weight". This is not a weight issue because 1) the bulk of this article is positive and 2) the cult experts are significant ones and were properly referenced. There is no good evidence that their view of Hassan's work is a small minority as Hassan's work is quite controversial, as the referenced work indicates. Critical points of view, for balance, do need to be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MonicaPignotti (talkcontribs) 19:00, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

the criticism is that his approach is "standard fare" and could, if used improperly, be used to manipulate people. This is not done as an empirical analysis but rather a comparison of their own method. this is not a criticism but rather Clark et al. use Hassan's method as a foil sell their own method of cult deprogramming. hence a weight issue in that it is a criticism unique to one published piece and not widely held, in fact only held by those who are trying to elevate their own counselling methods.Coffeepusher (talk) 22:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

There is no requirement that references in Misplaced Pages be empirical investigations. If that were the case, nothing of Steve Hassan's work could be included since he has never conducted a single empirical study in his life and yet he makes claims that his methods are superior to others. You are free to disagree with the critics and are entitled to your unsubstantiated opinions of their motives, but for you to delete valid references to published criticism is at odds with Misplaced Pages's policies. If you persist in attempting to suppress this criticism, I will request a mediation from Misplaced Pages. There is no valid reason not to include this properly referenced criticism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MonicaPignotti (talkcontribs) 01:11, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

  • When I google I get a large number of hits. It appears that Pignotti is in a real life dispute with the subject. If so, it would be better if that person were not involved in editing the biography.   Will Beback  talk  01:15, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I referenced and cited valid material and left my own opinions on Hassan completely out of what I added. Hence, I am not in violation of any of Misplaced Pages's policies. There is no rule against who can post, as long as the postings are properly done. It appears that the biased person is the one who is so bent on having this valid, cited material deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MonicaPignotti (talkcontribs)

Is it incorrect that Monica Pignotti has been critical of the subject?   Will Beback  talk  01:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

While I have criticized Hassan, I have not inserted any original research into this article, only validly referenced sources. Is there any policy against Misplaced Pages authors not being critics? Are there policies against people who are clearly supporters and biased in that direction being authors? The statements by "coffeepusher" such as his unsubstantiated assertions regarding the author of this critique are hardly unbiased. If his supporters biased in favor of him are allowed to post, why shouldn't a critic, as long as I abide by Misplaced Pages's rules, which I have? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MonicaPignotti (talkcontribs) 01:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

There is more to Misplaced Pages than valid sources. There is also NPOV. Specifically, Coffeepusher has referenced the clause on weight, WP:UNDUE. Articles should be balanced, without placing undue emphasis on issues. Extensive quotes from a single source give the appearance of undue weight. Given the shortness of the overall biography, few lines would appear more appropriate than 284 words.
It'd be better if neither critics nor supporters made this article into a battle ground.   Will Beback  talk  01:40, 10

February 2012 (UTC)

Again, I have to challenge that this is an issue of "weight" since the majority of this article is highly positive with only a small section on criticism. I put in the criticism, precisely to give the article some balance. I would be willing to compromise, however, and shorten the paragraph if that would satisfy your requirement. MonicaPignotti (talk) 01:51, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

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