| Revision as of 15:04, 12 April 2006 editFor great justice. (talk | contribs)1,733 edits →C&VG← Previous edit | Revision as of 18:55, 12 April 2006 edit undoRedvers (talk | contribs)29,889 edits CommentNext edit → | ||
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| :I assume that english is not your first language? Frankly I don't know where to start. Your shortened version clearly changed the article, because it removed the word attributed. I can see now why you think this did not change the meaning, see below. | :I assume that english is not your first language? Frankly I don't know where to start. Your shortened version clearly changed the article, because it removed the word attributed. I can see now why you think this did not change the meaning, see below. | ||
| :I don't, as an aside, think you understand the meaning of the phrase 'pull punches'. | :I don't, as an aside, think you understand the meaning of the phrase 'pull punches'. | ||
| :If you had, indeed, read the article, you would not suggest the title 'by the media', since the attributions were made by coroners, family, perpetrators of violence themselves, and the media. The word 'attributed', as you point out, means to ascribe. Perhaps the problem is that you don't know what that word means? I am truly sorry to come across as rude, but I feel a responsibility to put you right on these |
:If you had, indeed, read the article, you would not suggest the title 'by the media', since the attributions were made by coroners, family, perpetrators of violence themselves, and the media. The word 'attributed', as you point out, means to ascribe. Perhaps the problem is that you don't know what that word means? I am truly sorry to come across as rude, but I feel a responsibility to put you right on these thin | ||
| ::First of all, I have read the article several times, and I ask that you quit making that accusation. Second, English is my native language. I hold an associates degree in English, thank you. Third, I've just read the entire above discussion again, and can't find where you see a reference to the title, by me, with the word "attributed" removed. I found two instances of the shortened versions. Here they are, in context: | |||
| ::#The title of the article says "Deaths attributed to video games" | |||
| ::#"attributed to computer or video games" implies causation | |||
| ::I see the word attributed in both of those instances. So can you please point out an instance where I referred to the title of your article without using the word 'attributed'? Neither of these shortened versions change the meaning of the title. | |||
| ::Next, the word "cause" is used in both the definition of "attribute" and the definition of "ascribe." I've pointed out on several occassions that "attributed to" and "caused by" can be the same, but for some reason you feel I have not proven this. So here, as more evidence, is the definition of "ascribe." | |||
| ::as·cribe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-skrb) | |||
| ::tr.v. as·cribed, as·crib·ing, as·cribes | |||
| ::#To attribute to a specified '''cause, source, or origin''': “Other people ascribe his exclusion from the canon to an unsubtle form of racism” (Daniel Pinchbeck). See Synonyms at attribute. | |||
| ::#To assign as a quality or characteristic: was quick to ascribe jealousy to her critics. | |||
| ::As far as asking people to re-read things, I suggest you re-read what I've already said above. I have already mentioned the coroners and "perpetrators of violence themselves" in a previous response and don't feel the need to reiterate that again. | |||
| ::The entire point is that video games and computer games were a common link among the deaths mentioned, one of at least two common links. The deaths should never have been "attributed" to them, but rather to the medical and psychological problems all of the victims shared. If this article remains with the current title, Misplaced Pages would be furthering the inncorrect claims. There are a hell of a lot of people who read this encyclopedia, and it is an editors job to report facts so those people who read it get the full story. I understand it is a fact that the deaths have been attributed to the games by certain people, but again, they were inncorrect in doing so. Sadly, it is currently much more fun for the media to talk about video games than it is to talk about various medical or psychological disorders. That is why the computer and video games get the headlines, and the rest of the information is either not mentioned, or further down in the articles. | |||
| ::Lets go to the actual articles: In one of the instances of the Berzerk game, Jeff Dailey had scar tissue and could have just as easily died jogging. In another case, Shawn Wooly was epileptic and also had psychological problems which his mother alludes to in that very article. The remainder of the same article goes on to describe how people with addictive personalities or psychological problems, low self esteem etc. are vulnerable to these kinds of outlets. That is probably the best article out of the bunch, but again - the computer game got the headline. The second article about Shawn Wooly flat out says "Shawn struggled with learning disabilities and significant emotional problems." But even after stating that, the mother places blame (''cause'' for her son's death) on the game - “That damn game. He shot himself because of the game.” In this instance, the mother needs something tangible to place blame on, to allow her to cope. She can pick up a copy of a game and hold it in her hand, something that can't really be done with seemingly abstract medical or psychological problems. I could go on but this is getting tiresome. | |||
| ::I've proved my reasoning to you over and over and quite frankly am through with doing so because it is taking me away from editing articles. Believe what you like --]|<sup>]</sup> 20:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Re your degree - sorry - I get those kinds of emails too! Seriously though, I guess that's why Misplaced Pages notes the relatively low prestige of associate degrees in higher education. You're in a hole, but you can't stop digging - if you keep insisting that attribute does not mean 'to regard' then there's nothing anyone can do. You have your interpretation; the rest of the world has theirs. Comically, you keep quoting dictionaries that prove my point, not yours. | |||
| :You miss the whole point of the article (I attribute this to your weak grasp of the language) going into your opinion of the value of the attributions. That's irrelevant. The article is about occasions when people have claimed that deaths were caused by games. That's what attribute means. Whether or not the people were right to claim that is not the point. | |||
| :You are right about your analysis being tiresome. Your opinion about the fact that people attributed the deaths to games is not interesting at all. It's simply your POV - the list is factual and verified. | |||
| :Still, thanks for playing, better luck next time, ] 15:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 18:55, 12 April 2006
——————————————— MY TALK PAGE ———————————————
Hello, welcome to my talk page. Please leave new messages at the bottom and use headings. Please sign it by typing four tildes, like this: ~~~~ |
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Oscar GutierrezWell the case is pretty clear, WWE.com is anything but factual when listing heights. See Kurt Angle for an example, or actually any WWE wrestler. Angle's case is just the clearest because he participated in the olympics, which reveals his real height. The company also advertized André the Giant as 7 ft 4 in, while his real height was 6 ft 10 in. Now googling reveals several pages that suggest that Gutierrez is 5 ft 3 in, for example . Now granted, OWW is not really accurate in most cases either, but serves as an example here. I also remember reading that Dave Meltzer listed his real height as this, although I can't find the link now.
Controversy VandalsIt was user 146.201.172.57 at 2:07 today. The fact it's an anon user makes it more difficult. but it should get reported so there's a record. Be sure to tag that user page (you can even though it's an anon). This is why wiki should require user accounts and signing of postings. Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd comment on the merge proposal to but BP's sexuality article back into his main. What a crock, we just reached a compromise on this today! This is the bad part of wiki. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth the hassle. I put a notice on it up on our Todo page. Rlevse 21:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
VandalI've blocked the vandal for 24 hours. Cheers, Jacoplane 06:11, 7 February 2006 (UTC) Cat votesPlease see Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_February_6, non-project people put two of our cats up for rename. Pls vote as you like. Rlevse 02:25, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks......for sorting out the language links on my user page, much appreciated. CitrusC 14:37, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Anon vandalismHe's blocked now. You can report more vandals at WP:AIV or you can ask me again. Thanks! Titoxd 00:33, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Test scoreYour wiki score is way higher than mine! Rlevse 03:17, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Nationality disambiguationDo you find it strange that there are no articles for "American people", "Canadian people", and "Brazilian people"...is there some reason why some nationalities have these articles and others don't? Or is it just that nobody has made them yet? BTW...thanks muchly for fixing the disambigs (at Jatene procedure) :). bcatt 12:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks!I just wanted to thank you for your contribution to my talk page and ask how did you get there? It seems like you went there just to fix that small link and never read anything on it. :P I believe it was through "What links here" from "Portuguese". I aprreciate it regardless, just curious. Thanks! --Cacumer 08:57, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
By the way, I took the liberty to get your fantastic idea on putting an alert on the top. Although I've never needed it, it was nice, and I've made a template with it. I hope you can make good use for it. I know I will. :) They're on my talk page, so you can see how I did it from there. Thanks again. --Cacumer 09:09, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Peer reviewI have nominated Cub Scouts (Boy Scouts of America) for a peer review, and I welcome your comments. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Input requestI'd appreciate your input at Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Robert_Baden-Powell's_sexual_orientation. You always seem to have a rational, balanced view of things. This afd is getting carried away. Rlevse 16:30, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
re: The Rare BreedHi. I've watched The Rare Breed many times on television; it's a great unassuming western. Gradually, I've created articles for the missing ones in James Stewart's filmography, and I finally got around to this one. It'd be interesting to hear more about the backstory to the film, as it's probably a lot different from the version on screen. Since there isn't very much information readily available about it, my version is only stub (without an infobox), so there's definetly room for expansion. Volatile 02:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Controversies about BSAWow-- thanks for doing all those citations-- you're my hero. Also, you might want to chime in on the debate on the talk page, so that all your hard work doesn't wind up just getting reverted to the old version of the page. -Alecmconroy 03:41, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Image Tagging Image:Tom Cavanagh.JPG
Thanks for uploading Image:Tom Cavanagh.JPG. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Misplaced Pages (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page. If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use {{GFDL-self}} to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use. If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Admrb♉ltz (T | C) 00:11, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
PsstI'm trying to build support for this nomination in its last few days. Please check out this page. Pass it along. Nudge nudge. -- evrik 20:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
New WikiHi, I see you have a depression userbox in your (vast!) collection. I'm currently working on a depression wiki over at Wikicities (Jimbo and Angela's wiki hosting project) and I'm looking for contributors. Hopefully it will be a useful place for people with depression to get information and support. I wondered if you would in interested in having a look and seeing if you can add to it? The url is http://depression.wikicities.com - there isn't that much there yet, just a few seeded articles and some basic help pages, but I hope it will grow to be a real wiki community. So please have a look if you can. Many thanks -- sannse (talk) 12:58, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
New caction toolI'm pleased to inform you that my caction tool v2 is now released. To update to the new version, replace the link to the old version in your monobook.js with
The reason I can't simply replace the old version is that the new one doesn't quite work for admins, and I'm still waiting for assistance before I completely roll it out. Tell me what you think of it. If there are any bugs, then let me know, including your browser version in the report. Thanks, and I hope you like the new version! haz (user talk) 16:08, 17 March 2006
Ferrets and childrenIn most of ferret forums this matter is described: young ferrets <1year and kids <3 years are not advised together. The reasons are: 1)ferret is not socialized yet and it cant properly use its teeth and fangs on human and especially on such delicate skin as kids have; 2) kids which can catch and grab the ferret (<3years) cant measure they strength and can harm the ferret, what causes the counteraction; 3) ferrets are more active and manoeuvrable than dogs or cats .... so please mind my words and put precaution in your abstract, that young kids <3 and ferrets <1year are not advisable together(i have my own bad experience with kids and young ferret eermaniitis@mail.ru) P.S. I left this info on ferret discussion page, but there are no reaction
Sorry, which point of my arguments u not agree? I have 2 ferrets ;-) and i can say that GENERALY ferrets are the best pets for kids .... except this special case which possibility is high ... anyone can by unsocialized ferret having an infant at home and this combination - young ferret in exploration march and infant sleaping in cradle is 100% dangerous (dogs and cats in this case will ignore the sleaper, but not the ferret) ... but ok u r the boss ... if u say thats enough, let it be on you (my point was to warn people in the matter where general public is 100% illiterate and more relaying on experience with other animals)
Oscar GutierrezI removed the trivia section because there was already one there, meaning he had 2 trivia sections containing the same information. Second, the article was way too big and I eliminated useless information. He does not need play-by-play every week, just important matches/storylines/news. Perry 01:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Obsessed with WrestlingI think Obsessed with Wrestling is generally reliable, although it does get some things wrong, e.g. The Undertaker's real name. The only reason I removed the link from the Shawn Michaels article was that it was already linked under "references", and linking to the website twice seemed redundant. As far as height and weight is concerned, there are no absolute sources. WWE.com probably does inflate figures, but that doesn't mean that we should automatically accept the figures of a rival website. McPhail 20:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Editing my pageHey N.S., why did you edit my user page? How did you even find it? But thanks for fixing the links anyway. And by the way, I also used your awesome layout on my user page, but I changed it a tad to make it my own so it wouldn't be a blatant copy. Thanks. Oh, you NEED to mention me as a cool wikipedian please. It makes me feel special. -Rebelkass
Scouting Barnstar A hearty thank you for all of your hard work on Scouting articles, especially on getting items featured and cleaning up the messy controversies article. Keep up the fine work! Rlevse 15:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
What???What are you talking about? What page is this on?? --Killswitch Engage 17:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)Killswitch Engage
C&VGI noticed that you voted to delete List of deaths attributed to computer and video games, 'per nom' - I was wondering, given that all of the points made in it are wrong, as the nominator has admitted, which part of the nomination you support? For great justice. 18:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
What you are reporting in the article is ..as you say, correctly cited. There is no argument there. The title of the article says "Deaths attributed to video games" and it is true that this is how the media has reported them, but there has never been any hard proof that any of the deaths you have listed were actually directly caused by the video games the people were playing. I've actually done some psychology research on some of these very people for a few classes, and while Misplaced Pages does not allow original research, I will say this: The title of the article makes it sound like video games are the cause of all the deaths mentioned, not just a common factor among them, and that is a flaw. The "fact" of the matter, if I may be so bold, is that all of the deaths listed here, among others not listed, are of (mostly) people who had previously been suffering from various psychological problems before video games ever entered their lives. People who become withdrawn, depressed etc (for whatever reason - typically stemming from family problems an sometimes biological problems) often seek out activities that they can seemingly participate in by themselves (even though in the case of MMOs they are not truely alone), and it just so happens video games allow this type of activity, and they are easy to get ahold of. This is just the nature of their types of diseases. In cases of obsession, if it wasn't one game, it would be another, if there wasn't a game to play it would be TV or emersion in books, or something. There is always something. People who are have addictive personalities will always find something to fill the hole they feel in their lives. In reality, the deaths are attributed to psychological instabilities, not video games. Unless previously seen by clinicians before their deaths, there are no reliable sources. There isn't some magical part of an autopsy that shows person x was influenced by game y. In the cases where person x shot person y and said "the game made me do it" - yes, its true they said that, but what else was going on in their lives? It wasn't just the game. I'm not saying computer/game addiction isn't a problem, but its not the underlying cause of anyone's death. The true article would be "List of deaths attributed to psychological problems" of which there are thousands, much too long and not really encyclopedic. --Naha| 19:52, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Tongue and cheek "appologies" can be left at the door, especially when they are followed by more criticisim. Above, I was shortening the title to reflect the part I have a problem with - the shortened versions I used above do not change the meaning of the title, it was just simple shorthand. Anyone can see that, so please quit pulling unnecessary punches and making accusations toward other editors, they are not becoming and will not gain you any support. Also, I am very aware of what the word "attributed" means and stand by everything I have said regarding that matter. I'm sorry you can't see that, I feel I was quite clear. Further, I did not misrepresent any of the content in the article, I never claimed anything I stated was in the article, but rather what a real article on the matter should be about. Perhaps a better title for your article would be "List of deaths attributed to computer or video games by the media." If you honestly think people do and will not read causation into the current title, you are sadly mistaken. --Naha| 07:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC) I also believe it is you who "don't know the meaning of the word 'attributed'" : from www.dictionary.com at·trib·ute ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-trbyt)
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