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Cuba Government Sandbox

Below is a sandbox for the Cuba Government section. All users can play in it and give it their best shot! --Zleitzen 21:45, 24 April 2006 (UTC) User:Zleitzen/Cuba Government Sandbox

What is the point of yet another arena for arguing about whether Cuba is a democracy or not? The matter will be decided here or not at all. Adam 13:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

It is an arena where users can participate and discuss the issues free from so called "robust tactics" and counter-productive antagonistic sparring. Because if I don't believe that a user is making a valid contribution, I can happily delete the comments within my rights. It's come to this, I'm afraid, Adam. If you were to agree to adhere to civility policies on this page, my sandbox would be unneccessary. --Zleitzen 15:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, you can debate the matter elsewhere all you like, but any edits to the article itself will be subject to the same process of debate here as all previous edits have been. Adam 00:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Education

In Cuba education is free and mandatory. The current statistic of 96% comes from a biased source, the frist line of this source is a quote: "the choice is between capitalism and chaos". http://lanic.utexas.edu/la/cb/cuba/asce/cuba8/30smith.pdf

The current UN figure is 100% http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/cuba.html Grantplus 01:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Grantplus, I would err on the side of caution with that 100% stat. Although it comes from a firm source it seems open to certain speculation, there is this source which details youth literacy rates (99.8%). As the section is education it may be more appropriate. There is also this rsource here saying that adult literacy rates are 96.9. Take your pick! --Zleitzen 02:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

The difference seems unimportant. No-one disputes that Cuba has near universal literacy. Adam 13:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Various characters who have since been blocked, El Jigue etc, disputed and kept tampering with it when it said 100% - if I recall they were adding provisos etc. We're best off putting the citation least prone to misinterpretation. --Zleitzen 13:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

No country has literally 100% literacy. "Near universal literacy" is certainly true. Adam 13:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Protection

I've sprotected because I see there's reverting against anons, and a sockpuppet account has just turned up elsewhere who may be heading here. If anyone thinks sprotection is inappropriate, let me know and I'll undo. Cheers, SlimVirgin 06:59, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

What criteria will you be using to decide when to unprotect the article? Adam 09:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

What does "sprotect" mean? Adam 00:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Sprotect means that anon IPs and new accounts can't edit it, so it stops vandalism and some sockpuppetry. Everyone else can carry on as normal. I'll unprotect if you think there's no problem, so let me know. SlimVirgin 00:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I see. I wasn't aware of this innovation. I don't think the problem here has been anon IPs or new accounts. The issue has been a deadlock between two groups of editors. Adam 00:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

It is a minor inconvenience for me, as I now have to log on to my old account to make edits. Although, something can be said for putting everything togeather in the sandbox. Mystork 05:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Not a democracy?

Regarding Adams recent edit delete "multi-party" qualifying the word "democracy", which suggests that Cuba might be some other kind of democracy. It isn't. Here is a good quote I found by Bob Huish, a graduate student at Queens University.

Myth: Democracy does not exist in Cuba.

Reality: The American system of democracy does not exist in Cuba. Cuba hold elections every four years, whereby every political position is up for renewal – even the presidential title. The system of elections is different from the British, American, or French system, but it is based on a fair method of allowing every person (aged 16 or older) to vote for representatives to represent them in National, Provincial, and Municipal levels of government.

Often the thought of a one party system jades people from seeing how democracy can operate in Cuba. The system is unique from traditional interpretations of Western Democracy, but the freedoms of choice and personal expression do exist. It is a unique system – just as Canadian Government is a unique system from that of the US.

For further reading on Cuban Democracy:

August, Arnold. Democracy in Cuba and the 1997-1998 Elections. La Habana: Jose Marti Editorial Press, 1999.

It is indeed a good quote, illustrating as it does what is either the gross stupidity or the gross dishonesty (possibly both) of Cuba apologists. I suggest Mr Huish go to Havana and try to express overt opposition to the Castro government, or that he get one of his Cuban friends to try to nominate as a "Down with Castro" candidate at the next elections. He will soon learn the truth about Cuban democracy. Adam 01:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I really don't think it is your place to dictate what is "stupid" or "dishonest." Mystork 01:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I hope we can settle down at "not a liberal democracy" As I said in the summary, it leaves less room for never-ending debate, and leaves the people who feel liberal democracy is the only kind happy, as well as the people who think democracy applies to Cuba in a different form. Mystork 05:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)