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• Mexican Drug War: The Mexican Federal Police arrested one of the three ringleaders responsible for the deadly shootout last month in the Mexico City International Airport's busy food court. An anonymous tip-off led police to his whereabouts. (Global Post)
• Syrian uprising (2011–present):
  • Heavy fighting is reported in the capital Damascus overnight with claims of at least five deaths and dozens of injuries. (Reuters via The Irish Times)
  • Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov argues that Western nations are using blackmail to secure a new UN Security Council resolution in order to make the use of force in Syria legitimate. (CBS)
• Pakistani Taliban attack an office of the security force's intelligence agency in Bannu and take several hostages. (USA Today)
• Two American tourists who were kidnapped in the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt on 13 July 2012 are freed. (CBS)
• Thailand's security forces kill seven alleged drug smugglers from Myanmar in a gunbattle. (AP via Arab News)

• American director William Asher who directed the tv show "Bewitched" dies.
• English composer and pianist Jon Lord dies after suffering a pulmonary embolism. (BBC) (NME)
• American singer Kitty Wells, the "Queen of country music" and the first female singer to have a number one song on the country charts with "It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels", dies of complications of a stroke. (Los Angeles Times)

• The United States Senate accuses the HSBC bank of laundering Mexican drug money. (BBC News)
• The launch of a flagship nuclear power station in Finland is delayed for a third time. (BBC)
• NBCUniversal buys full control of the US news website MSNBC.com and rebrands it as NBCNews.com. (NBC News)
• Stephen Covey, author of The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, businessman and motivational speaker dies. (AP via Newsday)

• Japan Self-Defense Forces airlift supplies to thousands of people isolated by flooding in southwest Japan, as the death toll rises to 24. (AAP via SBS News)

• Former National Rugby League player Craig Field is charged with murder following the death of a man allegedly assaulted in the Australian town of Kingscliff, New South Wales. (Sydney Morning Herald)
• A "multiple shooting" incident at Scarborough, a major district in Toronto, Canada, results in at least one death and 19 injured. (National Post)

• North Korea announces that Ri Yong-ho, a senior military figure and a member of the central presidium of the Workers' Party of Korea, is relieved of all duties due to illness. (AP via Yahoo! News)

• The U.S. Food and Drug Administration approves Truvada as the first drug shown to reduce the risk of HIV infection. (CBS News)(USA Today)

• Thousands of athletes and officials start arriving in the United Kingdom for the London Olympics. (BBC)

Death of Jon Lord

• Nominated by Floydian (talk · give credit)

• Support as nominator. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 17:31, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Support, perfectly notable. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:40, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Support, with the comment that it's already yesterdays news. Regards, SunCreator 17:46, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Plus subject has international appeal. Top trending on Russinan, German, Portuguese, Italian, Swedish Wiki's. Regards, SunCreator 18:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose Who doesn't love Child in Time? But you have to be kidding, the keyboardist for Deep Purple dies of old age? μηδείς (talk) 18:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

71 is not old age. The criteria in question are at WP:ITN#Deaths, specifically number 2: The deceased was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field. Aside from Rick Wakeman (who spoke up on this, calling him an inspiration to his own playing), Rick Wright (who died two years ago), and Stevie Wonder, you don't get much higher in terms of keyboard players. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 18:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Well said. I'm sure many people who don't like Child in Time, or who even, like me, hate it with a passion, deserve to know what else he did... and besides, our young Keith from Tod' is only 67. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:21, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

You're always ready to support when it's an American that's died, aye Medeis? ;) --Τασουλα (talk) 19:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

• Neutral - however replace "passes away" with "dies" in the blurb, no need for euphemisms here. LukeSurl 18:18, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose Celebrity deaths of old age have been repeatedly judged not worthy of front page. How is this any different? -OldManNeptune ⚓ 19:02, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
  • The short answer is that it's a different celebrity. Sudden or violent death can add a few "notability points", but the main factor is the magnitude of importance of the individual. LukeSurl 20:49, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose We really need to sharpen up our consideration of celebrity deaths, the standard seems to be nose-diving of late. Only criteria 2 of the death criteria - "The deceased was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field" could possibly apply here.

Is Lord one of the top English keyboardists of the early 70's who played in bands that happened to be called Deep Purple? Sure, but I'm not playing that over-classification game here, much as the fans of the latest celebrity death attempt to do so to claim some semblance of notability. The field here is popular music. Is he one of the top twenty or thirty most notable figures in the whole realm of popular music? No. In fact I doubt he would make the top fifty on any objectively constructed listing. Application of DC #2 therefore strikes me as tenuous at best which is why I oppose.

Finally, I note that according to the template the article has been updated. Lets look at the update: two sentences and 26 words. Is that really the kind of expanded coverage of a media story that we wish to highlight? It is likely that even a thirty second news item at the end of a news broadcast goes in to more depth. Where is that greater detail that ITN serves to provide? Crispmuncher (talk) 19:25, 17 July 2012 (UTC).

I made the nomination, not the update, and I marked is as updated because it doesn't say he is still alive. However, I'm sure more could be dug up quite easily given the multitude of publications covering this. Lord is one of the top keyboardists in popular music, and certainly one of the most influential to players today. Deep Purple happens to be a notable example of his work, but not the only example. That the field is "popular music" is your generalist opinion, but certainly not the only one. I believe his field is being a keyboardist, of which he is one of the best to have ever graced the Earth. Rolling Stone can back that up more reliably than any wikipedian. That only one criteria applies here is moot; seldom if ever do any deaths we post meet two or three of the criteria. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 19:34, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, cheers, Muncher. Perhaps I won't bother then Martinevans123 (talk) 19:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Crispmuncher you apply too fine a filter. Is Lord a founding member of a major 70's rock band, one that was an influence on future acts like Metallica, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, and more? You bet. Has his article been updated with tributes and reactions from major players in the rock music field. Absolutely yes it has. This actually blares ITN/DC #2. --76.110.201.132 (talk) 12:05, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

• Weak Oppose I have to stand my ground that unless a death has wide-reaching impact, it is not ITN material. --Τασουλα (talk) 19:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Comment - If we do not post this story, then we have to consider whether the so-called ITN death criteria applies to these nominations at all. This is insane. As far as keyboardists go, you cannot easily get any more notable than Jon Lord.--WaltCip (talk) 19:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• ^^Then, we wouldn't even be having a discussion on it, wouldn't we? O.o I mean, if the guidelines are set in stone and apply to this nomination then shouldn't it be automatically added after updates? The nomination could be used just to make sure it's updated and bought to attention. *If that makes sense*. --Τασουλα (talk) 19:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I think we're being over-literal if we're saying that our ITN DC demand inclusion of a keyboardist on the basis that he was a 'leader in his field'. Some fields are too narrow to qualify here, I think common sense and precedent dictate (I'm not the first person to make that argument). We can't consider each and every musical instrument a 'field' for ITN's death criteria. If it were one of the world's leading pianists, maybe. For myself, oppose.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

The vast majority of a reasonably lengthy oppose I made earlier was exclusively concerned with the application of the death criteria and explaining why I fogured they did not apply. Asserting "he fits the death criteria, therefore he must be posted" in the light of that and without presenting any evidence or arguments to the contrary is the kind of fancruft assertion of notability that makes me very dubious of celebrity death nominations these days. Crispmuncher (talk) 21:12, 17 July 2012 (UTC).

But now we have other views to consider, not just the original nomination. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:23, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

• Support per ITN/DC #2. Influential and widely regarded in his field. The article is well updated and reflects the same. We posted the Monkees guy and that 90s rapper (I honestly cant remember the band just that I dont like them), so this seems an obvious pass. WP:IDONTLIKEIT doesn't apply. Revamp ITN/DC #2. --76.110.201.132 (talk) 20:42, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Weak support. Borderline ITN/DC #2 candidate. What swings it for me is that the article is good, the opposes are spurious and ideological, and that Wimbledon finished about three weeks after Noah completed his ark. —WFC— 21:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Support — On balance, Lord is a highly notable musician. He founded Deep Purple, led the band for two years, and remained its keyboardist until 1976. That in itself is significant; one of the band's most important contributions to contemporary music has been their innovative implementation of jazz-inspired melodies into lengthy keyboard solos. And of course, Deep Purple has sold millions upon millions of records since their debut over four decades ago. This man has had a sizable impact. Master&Expert (Talk) 21:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
• Support Master&Expert sums my feelings here, a founding member of an one of the most influential bands in the history of popular music. Also a slow news week. Secret 00:35, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
• Marked as ready strong support, lots of time for Australians to offer feedback, excellent update ( Death + Tributes). --76.110.201.132 (talk) 11:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
  • NOT READY. Consensus not reached--24.103.114.115 (talk) 11:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
    • That's for the posting admin to decide. Seems strong consensus to post to me. Several well considered supports and a few "old people die" opposes. I don't see any comment either way from "24.103.114.115", you had 2 days to provide feedback, but you waited for a ready tag to go up before boldly tearing it down? I fail to understand how that happened... --76.110.201.132 (talk) 12:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Admittedly this was a late nomination - over a day after he died. Although it could also be seen as "without indiscrete haste". But it's disappointing that mere lethargy can discount certain events. By the time consensus is reached here, over exactly how the criteria are met or not met, the world of news will very likely have moved on. Yes, Jon will still be dead, but it will probably only be "the week that Jon Lord died". The world's press seemed to think it was quite newsworthy. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I think this is inherent in the fact that we report the news, we don't make it. A day or two is not much considering most items remain up for the better part of a week. By the way it's currently 7 supports + 1 weak to 3 opposes + 1 weak, which is a good indicator. Hopefully an admin comes by soon and makes a call. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 13:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I marked it as ready and got shouted down for it. I don't want to mark it again for fear of 3RR violations. Could some like-minded individual mark it as ready please. --76.110.201.132 (talk) 14:07, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

• Support Extremely notable and influential keyboardist of Deep Purple (a British hard rock band), among others.--GoP_{TN 12:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)}
• Strong Support - for the reasons outlined in my comment above. This received international coverage and thus there is no feasible reason why this should not be posted.--WaltCip (talk) 14:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
• Marked as ready #2 trying again. Two more supports since the caps lock IP drove by and yelled there is no consensus. Seems very strong to me now. --76.110.201.132 (talk) 15:03, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose This is another minor celebrity death which feature far too prominently on ITN. Reporting on celebrity deaths should be reserved for those with near-universal recognition and this guy doesn't have that. I wouldn't have regarded this as ready for posting since the arguments in favor appear very weak - vague notions of how great the band was. I don't buy that that that extends to the individuals making up the band. Somebody died, somebody that a minority consider with great affection. That does make it automatically worthwhile posting on the front page. ﬥ (talk) 16:24, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
• Posted. --Jayron32 17:10, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
  • • remove 9-6 !vote is hardly a consensus. This is a minor celebrity. We don't post much more significant deaths.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:21, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

WP:NOTAVOTE. Anybody with a beginner knowledge of music recognizes Jon Lord, and considering all the minor political events that we are posting... - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 19:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose, please remove. death of an old person who, to put it bluntly, was in the background of a (formative, granted) rock band from a long, long time ago. Low relevance today. Speciate (talk) 00:08, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
  • The decision has been taken. The only reasons to remove now would be a lack of article quality, questions about whether the story is accurate, or consensus that the decision was taken hastily. —WFC— 00:19, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Consensus can change. There is precedent for items being pulled on the basis of a change in the balance of opinion after posting. It is not for you to disenfranchise those editors based on you personal view of a post, parituclarly when a simple count reveals straight 9:8. If that cryptogram editor above had been a little bolder and removed the ready tag that had been placed on this twice by the same anonymous editor we would not be having this conversation. Crispmuncher (talk) 00:49, 19 July 2012 (UTC).

Side point: I've always considered to be an indication that the article can be posted subject to consensus. The current instructions state:

"Items can also be marked as when they are ready to be posted, but the posting admin should always judge the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you don't feel is ready to post is marked you should remove the header."

which to me suggests that where consensus is the sticking point, only an admin should remove a tag. I'll start a discussion of that at the ITN talk page, but wanted to put my thoughts on record in this discussion. —WFC— 03:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Why on earth pull it now after it took so long to post? That just looks unprofessional on Misplaced Pages's part.--WaltCip (talk) 02:31, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

If I knew how to do a picture of a facepalm I would. We're going to be posting when users' favourite teachers die before long. Formerip (talk) 02:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Well right now all we've posted is political stuff, and a tanker explosion that really belongs in the Darwin Awards. A "celebrity" (I prefer virtuoso, pioneering, or professional musician, as opposed to lumping music and Hollywood together) here and there will not spoil the news ticker. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 03:11, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages SOP: household name dies, not notable. Niche celebrity dies, adjust their "field" to be suitably narrow, post regardless, even if the arguments given amount to nothing more than "he's notable." - OldManNeptune ⚓ 05:01, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Our process seems to be stuck somewhere between consensus / voting based on editors’ subjective judgements and an attemp to reflect what the "real news media" see as notable. Ok, so Jon Lord wasn’t Elton John. But until recently he was still writing and performing. He wasn’t just "an old man" whose musical career was decades in the past. I think he was certainly a major influence in 1960s/70s heavy rock music. He certainly wasn’t "my favourite teacher". I have no big issue in trying to shoe-horn him into ITN and then propping him up once in there. Indeed, I don’t see why there can’t be more flexibility in nominations e.g. including proposed number of days. But obviously new news overtakes old news on a rolling basis. I’m not bothered if he is there for only a couple of days or for a week. The ITN template on his Talk Page doesn’t reflect how long he was there, just that he made it. But I suspect that, for many editors, the whole notion of an ITN section is incompatible with the aim of a "serious encyclopaedia". Martinevans123 (talk) 09:48, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma

• Updated and nominated by Lihaas (talk · give credit)

• Support - It is important enough to be put on ITN. Thanks for nominating it.Egeymi (talk) 16:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
• Support notable and interesting. But could we get one more source in the African Union section? There's a couple of statements there that aren't reported in the one source cited. LukeSurl

DoneLihaas (talk) 17:36, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

• Support Yebo! μηδείς (talk) 16:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
• Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

4 hrs and 3 supports only?Lihaas (talk) 19:38, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Again, do you actually have an objection to thi—oh, you nominated the item, and you apparently didn't count yourself among the supports. Why exactly are you complaining? -- tariqabjotu 19:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I miss the old days when obtaining consensus for putting something on ITN was optional. --Golbez (talk) 19:45, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Theres not complaint, itsmy nom. In the interest of fairness the otherside of the world should get a say in it. Just cause its my nom doesnt means its automatically a given right.Lihaas (talk) 19:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Eh, it was 6 hours between nomination and posting. Considering we aim, theoretically, for a new item every 12 hours this seems OK to me (if on the quick end). If we set too long a minimum time for the process we're going to get into newspaper levels of slow response *shudder*. I for one am personally happy to open up Misplaced Pages over my morning cup of tea and discover (through ITN) that there's a decent article on an event that hadn't even happened when I went to sleep. LukeSurl 20:00, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Meh. There's a tradeoff. If we waited long enough for everyone to wake up and check it out, we'd sorta miss the whole "In the news" thing, since stuff posted would no longer be "In the news". The discussion here is supposed to be among people working in good faith to catch errors or to stop inappropriate stuff from hitting the page, either through poor article quality, lack of update, lack of coverage in reliable news sources, etc. etc. Its important to lighten up on the needlessly following procedures thing and instead focus on presenting a good product for the main page. The primacy should be given to quality and reliability and less so on making people who frequent this place feel they are treated "fairly". Not to be blunt, but the feelings of people who live at the antipodes aren't a major concern when compared to presenting quality material on the main page. The people who have supported so far have a reputation for fact checking and fair mindedness, I don't see the need to seek additional opinions just to not hurt anyone's feelings. --Jayron32 20:02, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

With all due respect, that's rubbish. Important things don't stop being In The News in six hours. I just woke up. Why does my opinion not count? Cut out the arrogance and indecent haste, please. HiLo48 (talk) 20:29, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Cease your antagonistic rhetoric. There is nothing to indicate the story should not have been posted. Don't fuss over policy for the sake of policy.--WaltCip (talk) 20:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Jayron32 made a good point that ITN, and almost all of Misplaced Pages, relies on trusting other editors to maintain and update the encyclopaedia when one isn't online. ITN is an inherently faster-paced forum than pretty much any other domain on WP and allowing every time zone to have an equal chance of commenting on a nomination would require waiting ~24 hours, obviously infeasible. That said, I think commenting after the fact that one would have opposed a nomination had one seen it is valid, as it helps inform future admin decisions and can be part of the ongoing consensus evolution as to what is an ITN-worthy nomination. LukeSurl 21:21, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

We wouldn't need 24 hours. That's silly. Nobody sleeps for 23 hours. Twelve would be enough to catch most editors during their waking hours. Misplaced Pages is a GLOBAL encyclopaedia. We must respect that adjective. There are too many problems caused by geographical biases already. If you don't recognise that, it proves the problem. HiLo48 (talk) 22:28, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose Blurb this item is notable without the "first woman" bit. I would support anyone getting elected, we don't need trivia like first woman, first person from here, first x religion, etc. Please drop that part. I had intended to state this earlier, but the nom went up while I was at work and was posted by the time I got home. --76.110.201.132 (talk) 20:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Can the speed lovers please take note? HiLo48 (talk) 22:28, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

A user starting a discussion on a matter of personal taste, when the notability of the story is not in doubt? We do that all the time (either here or at WP:ERRORS). It doesn't strike me as a reason to have waited. For the record I agree with the IP's point, that this was notable without the "first woman" bit. Unlike the IP, I think what is described as "trivia" is relevant enough, and makes the blurb less samey than it would otherwise have been. —WFC— 23:06, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Should we also mention that she is the first south african to hold the post? --76.110.201.132 (talk) 00:01, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Definitely not. I understand the point you're trying to make, that any phrase such as "first XXX" is a subjective call. But first man/woman is a subjective call which is easily reversed if deemed inappropriate, whereas first nationality is a subjective call which will inevitably descend into borderline racist arguments about whether the country should be mentioned, or whether there is some sort of political/nationalist agenda. —WFC— 00:32, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I support this nomination but not allowing the other half of the world to vote seems pretty rough justice to me doktorb _words 07:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

If admins are doing their jobs, pure votes at ITN are always ignored, regardless of when they are made. And this thread is an excellent demonstration of why process sticklers for process' sake should also be unconditionally ignored. —WFC— 09:58, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

There are tens of thousands of people reading the main page, whilst there are a few dozen "regulars" here in ITN/C. Providing decent, timely content for the former takes priority over "fairness" for the latter. LukeSurl 10:22, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Is that why there not-all-that-infrequqent cockups with pullings? Thats why we discuss.vLihaas (talk) 11:10, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I've only been floating around here a couple of months or so, but I can't recall a story being pulled (blurbs revised yes after discussion and/or developments in the stories, but that's not such a big deal). Sure, some things have gone through that I opposed, but that's different from something having gone up in error. What exactly are you referring to? LukeSurl 12:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

The vast majority of scrutiny comes after an article is posted to the Main Page. If a series of respected users, and an admin, don't see blatantly obvious problems, then a few more rubber stamp supports and a couple of THIS ISN'T THE END OF THE WORLD type opposes are unlikely to change anything. —WFC— 15:05, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: