| Revision as of 13:49, 2 January 2013 editEnric Naval (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers30,509 edits →Uncivil behavior: I can't disagree with that definiton← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:35, 2 January 2013 edit undoEdJohnston (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Administrators71,226 edits →Mentioned: new sectionNext edit → | ||
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| == Mentioned == | |||
| Hello Enric. I mentioned your name in a comment I just left at ]. Thanks, ] (]) 19:35, 2 January 2013 (UTC) | |||
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What?
What the hell are you talking about? I have not restored any edits from Echigo mole or told anyone that this is allowed. That claim is patently false and you should retract it.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 14:30, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- You are totally right, I am sorry for my clumsiness. I have amended my comment. Please check it.
- By the way, please take this into consideration. Please don't encourage people to interact with indef-blocked editors. Those editors are supposed to stay way from wikipedia. Telling editors in good standing that it's OK to interact with them just encourages indef-blocked editors to return to wikipedia and evade their blocks. It also lands those editors in good standing in hot water, since they are themselves encouraging the block evasion due to having received bad advice. --Enric Naval (talk) 17:22, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- There is a difference between saying someone can do something and saying that person should do something. I am not going to tell someone that he or she should communicate with any specific editor unless doing so would be productive, but I am not going to suggest that such communication is not allowed because it is allowed. Many editors, including admins and Arbitrators, communicate with banned or blocked editors for one reason or another, including in social settings, and someone can't and shouldn't be sanctioned for the mere act of talking to someone who is not allowed to edit Misplaced Pages.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure that the blocked editor is evading his block if the communication is happening in wikipedia pages. And acting on behalf of a blocked editor is frowned upon, since you helping in his block evasion. It will probably have consequences for both sides: the editor in good standing will be chastised, and the blocked editor will have problems when he tries to obtain an unblock (people will point at the incident and say that he can't keep himself away from wikipedia). The goal of a block is to keep an editor away from wikipedia; it's not intended to have him coaching other editors, either publicly or behind the scenes.
- There is a difference between saying someone can do something and saying that person should do something. I am not going to tell someone that he or she should communicate with any specific editor unless doing so would be productive, but I am not going to suggest that such communication is not allowed because it is allowed. Many editors, including admins and Arbitrators, communicate with banned or blocked editors for one reason or another, including in social settings, and someone can't and shouldn't be sanctioned for the mere act of talking to someone who is not allowed to edit Misplaced Pages.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- And, even if the communication happens outside of wikipedia. Even if the communication doesn't result in making edits on behalf of the blocked editor. Even then, taking editing advice from an indef-blocked editor is not wise. So, you can but you shouldn't. --Enric Naval (talk) 20:53, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- Simple fact is that I was not encouraging anything. All I did was note what was allowed by policy and what was allowed by the restriction. That is not encouragement. Personally, I think all you should say to someone about interacting with a banned or blocked editor is to remind that person of what is appropriate when it comes to editing Misplaced Pages. Trev does not seem to be a bad person so I cannot think of any moral or ethical reason for someone to not talk to him. Not gonna comment on editors with whom I am not familiar, but the suggestion that someone should never even talk to a person kind of rankles me a bit.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 22:22, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- You were completely missing the goal of the restriction that was issued by arbcom. I am sorry that you don't like that some editors are excluded from wikipedia, but that's the way things are here. WP:BLOCK and WP:BAN are not going anywhere, and WP:WHYCANTWEALLBEFRIENDSANDHAVEAGROUPHUG is not bound to become policy anytime soon. If you want to a website where nobody is ever excluded from participating, then you are looking in the wrong place. --Enric Naval (talk) 23:31, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- Not saying that certain editors should not be prohibited from editing, but that no one should demand that people not talk to another human being off-wiki solely because of some sanction against that person on here.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:43, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, we can't prevent off-wiki communication. But, if off-wiki communication results in block evasions, it's bound to have consequences for the editors enabling the evasion. --Enric Naval (talk) 00:25, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
- For all it's worth, there was a related incident a few days ago in the Spanish wikipedia. An editor decided to es:evade a block by writing artiles off-wiki and then asking someone else to post them in wikipedia, this caused a lot of upheaval, and it affected negatively his unblocking petition. There was a very long thread on whether the editor had to be blocked for disruption, and whether it was ok to edit in behalf of blocked editors as long as they were only improving articles. --Enric Naval (talk) 00:50, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
- Not saying that certain editors should not be prohibited from editing, but that no one should demand that people not talk to another human being off-wiki solely because of some sanction against that person on here.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:43, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- You were completely missing the goal of the restriction that was issued by arbcom. I am sorry that you don't like that some editors are excluded from wikipedia, but that's the way things are here. WP:BLOCK and WP:BAN are not going anywhere, and WP:WHYCANTWEALLBEFRIENDSANDHAVEAGROUPHUG is not bound to become policy anytime soon. If you want to a website where nobody is ever excluded from participating, then you are looking in the wrong place. --Enric Naval (talk) 23:31, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- Simple fact is that I was not encouraging anything. All I did was note what was allowed by policy and what was allowed by the restriction. That is not encouragement. Personally, I think all you should say to someone about interacting with a banned or blocked editor is to remind that person of what is appropriate when it comes to editing Misplaced Pages. Trev does not seem to be a bad person so I cannot think of any moral or ethical reason for someone to not talk to him. Not gonna comment on editors with whom I am not familiar, but the suggestion that someone should never even talk to a person kind of rankles me a bit.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 22:22, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- And, even if the communication happens outside of wikipedia. Even if the communication doesn't result in making edits on behalf of the blocked editor. Even then, taking editing advice from an indef-blocked editor is not wise. So, you can but you shouldn't. --Enric Naval (talk) 20:53, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring. Thank you. --Santos30 (talk) 11:17, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
- OK, I commented there. --Enric Naval (talk) 13:29, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
CfD nomination of Category:Second language acquisition
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Good work
Good find with the Physics of the Plasma Universe quotes etc, IRWolfie- (talk) 10:59, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. I just wanted to make really really sure that the book actually had plasma cosmology ideas and that I hadn't treated Iantresman unfairly. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:36, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Santos30
Hola, Enric, me alegro de tu mensaje, hace tiempo que no hablamos, pero me acuerdo aún de mis primeras intervenciones en es:wp, cuando yo aún era un novato, e interviniste en un asunto relacionado con la Corona de Aragón. Conozco las andanzas de Santos 30 en la wikipedia en español, pero lamentablemente mi inglés es demasiado rudimentario como para poder intervenir aquí. De allí te digo que fue un usuario con POVwarrior hasta tal punto que fue bloqueado. Hago pequeñas ediciones, cuando veo algo muy gordo o muy fuera de lugar, pero poco más. Si quieres puedes contactar con Durero de la wikipedia en español, a ver si él está interesado en aportar alguna cosa. Yo, lamentablemente, solo tengo un inglés de andar muy por casa. En todo caso, un abrazo. Escarlati (talk) 18:53, 21 November 2012 (UTC) PD. Ya que estoy, échale un vistazo al Reino de Aragón de aquí; hay un usuario que se empeña en que no se mantuvo el reino privativo hasta los Decretos de Nueva Planta, no sé por qué lo dirá, pero el hecho es que cada reino (y el Principado) perdió los fueros "por separado", por decirlo así. Hasta tal punto que los de Cataluña fueron unos años más tarde que los de Aragón y los de Valencia. Segundo abrazo. Escarlati (talk) 18:57, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- OK, hablaré con Durero, a ver si puede aportar algun dato. A mi me obligaron a estudiar inglés desde muy pequeñito, y me fue de maravilla, en eso mis padres acertaron de pleno. Intentaré vigilar un poco ese artículo. --Enric Naval (talk) 22:23, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- Mientras, échale también un ojo a Crown of Aragon. Es la segunda vez que introduce una clarificación que como mínimo es muy discutible. No le basta con la de Castilla, ahora la emprende con la de Aragón. Gracias por todo. Escarlati (talk) 01:51, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
- Hola de nuevo: Santos30 ha vuelto a introducir por tercera vez su POVwarrior en la Corona de Aragón, extendiéndolo a todos los artículos a su alcance. En teoría se está discutiendo, pero mientras se discute, sigue introduciendo los cambios una y otra vez sin dejar los artículos en el statu quo ante ¿No hay modo de denunciar la guerra de ediciones y el POVwarrior de este usuario y que los bibliotecarios tomen medidas? Escarlati (talk) 12:52, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
- I commented in the ANI thread. But administrators here allow POV-pushers to get away with a lot of disruption before they block them..... --Enric Naval (talk) 14:11, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
- Hola de nuevo: Santos30 ha vuelto a introducir por tercera vez su POVwarrior en la Corona de Aragón, extendiéndolo a todos los artículos a su alcance. En teoría se está discutiendo, pero mientras se discute, sigue introduciendo los cambios una y otra vez sin dejar los artículos en el statu quo ante ¿No hay modo de denunciar la guerra de ediciones y el POVwarrior de este usuario y que los bibliotecarios tomen medidas? Escarlati (talk) 12:52, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
- Mientras, échale también un ojo a Crown of Aragon. Es la segunda vez que introduce una clarificación que como mínimo es muy discutible. No le basta con la de Castilla, ahora la emprende con la de Aragón. Gracias por todo. Escarlati (talk) 01:51, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
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Do not make massive changes without talk
Talk:Crown_of_Castile#RfC:_Did_the_the_Crown_of_Castile_end_in_1812_or_in_1715
Please wait for opinions and not make more changes. Thanks.--Santos30 (talk) 07:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Your words say it all:
- "My main problem is I can not find any source that clearly specifies the end date of the Crown of Castile, in Spanish or English" Google traslation.
- Mi principal problema es que no encuentro ninguna fuente que especifique claramente la fecha de finalización de la Corona de Castilla, ni en español ni en inglés..... --Enric Naval (discusión) 22:27 21 nov 2012 (UTC)
--Santos30 (talk) 08:12, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
- I haven't changed anything in Crown of Castile. Maybe you mean Talk:New_Spain#flag_was_the_.22estandarte_virreinal.22?
- You have found even less sources for the end being in 1812, so..... --Enric Naval (talk) 08:35, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Bueno, he leído las respuestas en Misplaced Pages español que ha estado haciendo y todos dicen a su pesar que no hay biblografía que diga que la corona de Castilla terminó en 1716. No existe. Misplaced Pages español se convierte en una fuente primaria. Nadie lo dice solo Misplaced Pages español. El problema de la enorme metedura de pata en wikipedia español, y no tiene arreglo por ser tan garrafal y de concepto, es que dicen que la soberanía está en los consejos o tribunales de cada reino, etc. Gravísimo fallo y que solo les lleva un absurdo tras otro absurdo y no se bajarán del burro. La cuestión es otra muy distinta pues ¿dónde está o reside la soberanía?. Nada más y nada menos. La soberanía reside en el trono de Castilla, en la persona del rey de España, hasta que la soberanía fue transferida al pueblo español o el pueblo hispanoamericanos.--Santos30 (talk) 10:52, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
- They also said that 1812 doesn't make sense. And there is no bibliography saying that it ends in 1812. You are just making original research, and picking one of the abolitions of the councils over the rest of abolitions. See this for a good explanation. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:26, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Some flags
Hi there. You should read Talk:Spanish Empire/Archive 4#Flag of Carlism & Talk:Spanish Empire/Archive 4#Continuation (but first read carefully the last two paragraphs of this link, probably it helps you to understand the arguments on that talk).
It that talk page you will find this link, that flag with the Cross of Burgundy over a white field shows in the tip of each arm the escutcheon, or coat of arms, of Mexico City. It used to be at the Museo Nacional de Historia, as you can see, is the same flag at the draw on your right.
This flag (with a red Cross of Burgundy over a white field with lions and castles) was captured in 1829, it belonged to Isidro Barradas. If you don't know who was this man, you can read more here. Two years ago was returned to Spain, well, actually there was an exchange as you can read here or here. Please, don't miss this link, take a look at page 1 and page 4:
Curioso es que el denominador común de las cuatro banderas españolas y mexicanas que participaron en el intercambio sea que todas cargan las Aspas de Borgoña o Cruces de San Andrés de la monarquía. En todas, pues, está presente el rey Fernando. En las banderas gemelas de los Dragones de la Reina, tanto las Aspas de Borgoña como los guiones militares del ejército borbónico se incluyeron a los costados del águila para significarlo. La empresa era preservar a la patria, la Nueva España, de caer en manos de los franceses que por entonces dominaban la Península Ibérica y amenazaban la religión católica. Que los lienzos de Barradas ostenten las Aspas de Borgoña como elemento central o motivo de la composición no amerita explicarse. Estas fueron un legado de Felipe el Hermoso al rey Carlos V y se mantuvieron en uso hasta 1843. Aquello que las banderas de Isidro Barradas aportan al conocimiento general de la guerra que sostuvieron los insurgentes y los realistas entre 1810 y 1821, son las composiciones emblemáticas que lucen declarando la reconquista de México. Para imprimirles este mensaje de victoria sus artífices se valieron de los escudos de distinción españoles con los que el rey condecoró, tras su restauración en el trono, a los militares realistas por sus méritos guerreros sobre la insurgencia de los últimos años.
Enseñan mucho las banderas. El conocimiento que teníamos del primer día en que se luchó con las armas por una libertad exenta de opresión cambió al conocerlas. También por las banderas del primer día podemos confirmar que no exclusivamente pelearon en la guerra de Independencia emblemas mexicanos contra españoles. El nacionalismo, exaltando sus símbolos, no era dado a poner en paralelo a los escudos españoles enarbolados por 'los otros' mexicanos. Novohispanos no afectos a la independencia, que al tomar las armas del lado del rey determinaron el carácter civil de la guerra, de los que no hablamos, e insurgentes que lucharon por la independencia siguiendo leales al rey y portando sus emblemas. Sin conocerse las banderas de Ignacio Allende poco se tenía en mente el uso de las Aspas de Borgoña por los contingentes castrenses del primer movimiento. Buscar la diversidad en los hechos del pasado pudo favorecernos ya que faltaba comprender la evolución simbólica de una guerra donde no se puede negar la diversidad de posturas populares, clericales, militares, matizadas por un imaginario compartido y por la amistad o desprecio hacia los europeos. Aspas de Borgoña y guiones españoles se enfrentaron por los dos costados en este primer movimiento. No debemos olvidar que los poseían, por reglamento, los otros regimientos 'pasados' que abandonaron al gobierno español declarándose leales al rey, los de Querétaro, Pátzcuaro, Valladolid y Celaya. Nuestra primera guerra civil regó excesiva sangre bajo los blasones de Fernando VII. Los partes realistas reportaron todavía un Aspa de Borgoña capturada —no recuperada— en Acatita de Baján en marzo de 1811.
Best regards Jaontiveros (talk) 05:39, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
- Ok, I made my comment, but my English is not as good as should be, I hope they will understand me. Jaontiveros (talk) 18:45, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
"proven..."
Re: abiogenic petroleum, seems Speight does use "proven" but in a slightly different context - have changed to "established". I have an aversion to saying "proven" in a science article, proofs are for math, and science is always open to new discoveries. Vsmith (talk) 19:26, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, I see, it's one of those semantic problems, like the difference between "proposed", "hypothesized" and "theorized". --Enric Naval (talk) 12:46, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
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| Enric Naval will be away on vacation until next Monday and may not respond swiftly to queries. | |
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Speedy of zorpia
Hello Enric! You have inserted a speedy on zorpia which is fine considering the deletion shitstory, however the talk page is protected so it is not quite possible to debate about it. Since I am not admin I cannot unprot the page so right now I kindly remove the template and leave a message at the beep (comment) not to reinsert it until the talk page is thawed. I do not oppose the template, let me say again, just right now it's impossible to debate it. (By the way I think the aricle contains new information inserted by me, consider it whether it changes the big picture. :-)) Thanks. --grin ✎ 10:34, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
- I commented at the unprotection request. Let's see if we can make something with that article. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:08, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
User:Jimbo Wales
I do rest assured. :-D Good catch! 174.51.31.120 (talk) 16:43, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
- Well, it lasted 40 minutes, that's a lot of time :-) --Enric Naval (talk) 18:52, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
MMA Event Notability
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..
Seasons greetings to you and yours
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Asking to undo closure of Sila-Nunam RM
I have asked User:Armbrust (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) to undo closure, for more discussion:
Armbrust had been blocked several times, in recent months, for edit-warring. Apparently, some users were unaware of the official hyphenated name, as if a married name, for the whole binary system, in the manner of a hyphenated surname which would be used for all children (or references) of that family. -Wikid77 (talk) 06:21, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- I replied there. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
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Santos 30 again
Hola Enric. Échale un vistazo a Crown of Aragon, porque Santos 30 sigue introduciendo sus absurdas ediciones. Escarlati (talk) 04:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Well, the confederation thing seems to be sourced. We need a source that explains why it's a confederation. Or a source explaining why it's not a confederation in spite of being called that in some sources. In the latter case, it can be removed from the infobox.
- Bueno, lo de la confederación parece tener fuentes. Necesitamos una fuente que explique por qué es una confederación. O una fuente explicando por qué no es una confederación a pesar de recibir ese nombre en algunas fuentes. En este último caso, se puede quitar de la infobox --Enric Naval (talk) 13:03, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
Uncivil behavior
Stop your uncivil behavior.--Santos30 (talk) 19:55, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
- Dear Santos30, during the last months you hav been inserting POV that exaggerates the role of Castilian symbols and the existence of the Crown of Castile. First in eswiki, now here in enwiki. In defending your edits, you have ignored sources that contradicted your position, and distorted other sources to pretend that they support your position. You have also edit-warred against multiple editors, claimed that your edits were supported by the sources, and removed sourced info while claiming that you were following the references. I have spent hours looking for solid references, only to see how you pretended they didn't exist and how you distorted sources to keep pushing the same flawed argument. And this point I can only agree with the description of "troll", and I won't be very sad if finally manage to get yourself blocked or banned from the English wikipedia.
- Change your behaviour. Or, at least, stop editing those articles and go edit articles related to American independence. --Enric Naval (talk) 13:49, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
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Mentioned
Hello Enric. I mentioned your name in a comment I just left at User talk:Santos30#Possible indefinite block of your account. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 19:35, 2 January 2013 (UTC)