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Revision as of 13:26, 17 May 2006

Bi-Digital O-Ring Test

Completely absurd article. Somewhat high in ghits, but I propose that it is still non-notable. A variety of ghits are on absurd patent sites. No real verifiable sources, mostly questionable papers, and some suspect sources - why is the clinic on the website of some random ISP instead of the hospital website. Also, searching on google for the award mentioned gives only two hits, one of which is to the baobab site. Philosophus 20:56, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

After looking at early revisions of this article, I have decided to remain neutral on this, as it seems to be more notable than I had thought. --Philosophus 21:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

If no one objects, I would like to withdraw this nomination. The early revision that I have reverted to does a better job at asserting notability, following NPOV, and citing reputable sources. --Philosophus 01:51, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment utterly bizarre! Just goes to show that there's still one born every minute.. Looks like a cautious keep right now, but more research needed. Anybody with knowledge of this area? Just zis Guy you know? 22:11, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - let me say firstly that I think this test is a load of bull*&%*. It has no scientific value, and no other value other than to propagate the insanity of some Japanese guy. Nevertheless, it's encyclopedic because it's notable. Keep. - Richardcavell 00:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment – As the original creator of the article I would simply point out that the article as originally created, however imperfect, would seem to meet Wiki criteria. So far as I can determine the alterations/additions which prompted the nomination for deletion were made by a proponent, and that their insupportability speaks for itself. I'm a comparative newcomer to this process, so please pardon any infelicities on my part. Fucyfre

This article clearly stands up to Misplaced Pages criteria. There is no original/new research: the article refers to and points to in the external links already published research. The research mentioned is also by reputable sources - they are medical doctors, scientist etc all with the standard doctoral or medical doctor qualifications. The idea expressed here that the information or that the Test itself is unscientific is flatly incorrect. The research and methodology of the BDORT satisfies accepted scientific method: observation, hypothesis, induction/deduction, etc. The claim of "pseudoscience" itself needs to be examined. Are any of the commentators here scientifically trained to Ph.D level? especially regarding electromagnetism? The BDORT deals with electromagnetic phenomena. This is a neglected paradigm in orthodox western medicine, but not among all doctors, which is a key point. See for example the many presentations by US doctors, scientists etc at Google: Whole Person Healing Summit. In other words, to say that it has no scientific value etc, is an opinion, that is, it is non-neutral. Are the commentators here seriously claiming to be able to refute the many published research papers of around 50 recognized scientists/doctors around the world?! On what basis is this credible? It is of course not. This is an absurd idea. The original author of this page obviously, as with some of the other contributors to the page, does not 'like' the BDORT. But that is not sufficient. You cannot call it names because of that. They are giving their opinion throughout their text - which is not Misplaced Pages practice. Their comments are therefore very biased indeed. When I simply added further information, as for example in the case of the NZ doctor, rather than deleting the existing text, my additions - which were extra information about the subject - were deleted. This outrightly violates Misplaced Pages policy. This needs to be 100% clear. What is being objected to, on analysis, is that I am presenting information that does not cohere with the bias of the contributors. On that insufficient basis, the different Misplaced Pages criteria are being sited, but erroneously as I have explained. Phrases like "and that their insupportability speaks for itself" sounds impressive, but are not substantiated in any way given. Regarding my non-neutrality, I am of course an advocate of the BDORT. But I have aimed in my last big rewrite to only include information, facts, figures etc. If people wish to improve on the neutrality of the information I have written, then please do, but please also note, that that does not equate to deleting information - which is the basis of what an encyclopedia is for. ---- RichardMalter

• Comment As you will note a RfD of this article was made, and a discussion has ensued. Presumably a consensus will in time emerge.

I would note that a Google search indicates that a Richard Malter is an active proponent of the BDORT as well as other ‘alternative’ approaches. These speak for themselves and require no characterization on my part. I would note that the characterization of the testimony of the scientific and medical authorities before the Medical Practioners Disciplinary Tribunal of New Zealand as provided by Richard Malter is factually incorrect. Malter indicates of the commission’s hearings in his edit of the original BDORT entry (since reverted) that ‘The Tribunal also noted that Richard Gorringe was not using the BDORT in the accepted correct way.’ In point of fact, as a reading of the commission’s report, as linked to, indicates, the commission explicitly chose to treat the distinction between BDORT and PMRT, which Richard Malter asserts it as having made, as nonexistant. See, eg, p 25, paragraph 100, which reads, in its entirety, ‘At each consultation Dr Gorringe ‘’muscle tested’’ Mrs Short by a procedure called ‘’Peak Muscle Resistance Training’’ which he used as a diagnostic tool. We refer to this procedure later and throughout this judgement as PMRT. It is also referred to as the Bi Digital O Ring Testing (BDORT).’ Further, Professor Cannell, heard as expert witness by the commission, and with whose evidence and conclusions the commissions in its rulings explicitly and officially agreed, stated, as summarized by the commission in its official ruling on p 63, paragraphs 305, that, ‘Professor Cannell referred to some 14 references in the literature which examined scientifically whether there was any reliability in applied kinesiology (AK) methods, which include PMRT or BDORT. He stated that none of those studies reached the conclusion that PMRT was a reliable diagnostic technique.’ Professor Cannel is further quoted in the commission report as stating that, ‘In summary I find the descriptions of the AK methods and in particular the BDORT test to be inconsistent with known physical principles. Even if it were possible to create a “field” with these methods, AK methods and (BDORTing) have not been shown to produce an electrical field which is required to alter the electrical activation of nerve and muscle. A limited survey of the literature shows that the AK testing results are unreliable – and this idea is apparently supported by some organizations that support complementary medicine. I find it deeply disturbing that the only people who seem to claim reliable diagnostic results are those who make a living from applying it some controlled scientific tests reveal no validity to these claims.’ It should be noted that this testimony was not merely offered before the committee but was judged by the committee in its final judgement to be, in fact, the judgement of the committee.

I am unaware of any objective, scientific, double-blind, peer-reviewed support for the claims of the proponents of the BDORT and I am also unaware of any such objective, scientific, peer-review having ever been sought by Dr Omura. If such exist, as opposed to patent advocacy, partisan, non-objective, non double-blinded, utterly unfounded in other-than anecdotalism and blind faith, let them be cited. A claim to scientific validity without subjecting of the claims to falsifiable, objective review, is by definition pseudo-science. Fucyfre

• Keep - This article exposes another form of quackery and pseudoscience and thus serves a valuable function. This is just another variation of Applied kinesiology, a chiropractic technique used by many practitioners of so-Called "Alternative" Medicine (sCAM). -- Fyslee 04:35, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Reply "the commission explicitly chose to treat the distinction between BDORT and PMRT as non-existent" is a fact about the Tribunial proceedings and perspective, not about the BDORT. This is a confusion of topic on Fucyfre's part. The fact that Gorringe used the BDORT incorrectly (he should have used the Indirect BDORT method if the patient could not for any reason be tested directly) in fact makes the Tribunial decision not about the BDORT but about Gorringe. To focus on the case of Gorringe is therefore useless to this discussion. Of course it will serve the bias of someone who does not agree for whatever reason with the BDORT. Omura and other researchers of the BDORT have carried out peer-reviewed, scientific method, double and sometimes triple blinded research and experiments. If you have not read these papers it does not equate to that they do not exist. You are making an unfounded statement: I suggest you spend some more time reviewing the documentation available. You obviously have a bias against anything that is not mainstream medicine, it is against Misplaced Pages culture for you to invest your contributions to this page with your bias. Your comments about nerve and muscle appear to be based on ignorance (from Latin: not know]. I suggest you read James Oshman PhD on the internet re the 'living matrix', and Yoshio Manaka Ph.D MD, Chasing The Dragon's Tail as a good starting place. You are thinking in a reductionist cartesian mechanistic paradigm and so missing much of how things happen: see also Bruce Lipton Ph.D The Biology of Belief for some up-to-date biology regarding electromagnetism, and Becker - The Body Electric. Otherwise you are making comments on limited information. --RichardMalter
Here is a peer reviewed triple blinded study by Dr Phillip Shinnick et al Director of the Research Institue of Global Physiology, Behaviour & Treatment, Inc, published in the US medicalacupuncture journal. http://www.medicalacupuncture.org/aama_marf/journal/vol14_3/case3.html

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/Scientific_method "identifiable features that distinguish scientific inquiry" - the methodology of the research of the BDORT follows all the features explained. This should now end the discussion of scientificness.