Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:03, 12 March 2013

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Chess and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

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This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Chess and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

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Was there a unicode chess piece symbol there?

Am confused, at all the piece articles (e.g. Knight (chess)), the lead sentence has parens ( ) after the piece name, but on my screen, it is just blanks. (Was there previously a symbol there? What happened? I don't understand the unicode template either, it seems to be without a parameter. But edit history doesn't tell me what was there.) Am totally confused, can someone explain? Thx. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 02:15, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Here I can see piece symbols between the brackets. So question becomes why does your computer not display them. Perhaps ask at the village pump. Regards, Sun Creator 02:25, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Sun Creator, thanks for the reply, it helps to know problem is isolated to my computer (browser, font, WP preference setting, etc.). I need to work on this. Thx again, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 19:10, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I know I’m late here, but it’s not just you; in Safari on Mac OS 10.6.8 with several fonts containing the character “♘”, that symbol is blank in both the article and the edit page. Not sure what I can do about it. It does show in Firefox, though. —Frungi (talk) 05:19, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Discovered, under Firefox, can only see the unicode by switching to MS Gothic (Tools→Options→Default font). Doesn't show if Arial. (Unfortunate, since Arial reads better than MS Gothic, for general purpose.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 05:45, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

PGN viewer

many of you guys are familiar with "pgn viewers" that exists outside wikipedia.

there is even a mediawiki extension that implements a pgn viewer. unfortunately, as code goes, the probability of this extension getting actually installed on any wikimedia wiki (such as the english wikipedia) is very low.

i developed a script that does part (most?) of what the familiar pgn viewer can do. i started a discussion about it in Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(technical)#Display_chess_games_from_PGN_data, but then reslized that maybe here would be a better place.

in a nutshell: look at the demo page on hewiki, and read the discussion in village pump.

peace - קיפודנחש (talk) 15:29, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Amazing quality of pieces and movement. I think maybe the buttons would be better below the board. Anyway, I approve. Regards, Sun Creator 21:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

question and comment.

• Question: how do you mean below the board? between the PGN listing and the board, or below the pgn lising itself? if the former, wouldn't the extra distance between the board and the listing be a detractor?
• Comment: note that i am not a native in enwiki - my home wiki is hewiki. my hunch is that injecting this to enwiki will require some lobying, which i am not equiped to do - i do not even know what is the next step after posting here and in wp:vp#technical.

peace - קיפודנחש (talk) 23:56, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I believe Sun Creator means the buttons should go below the diagram. I agree. I've read the Village Pump dialogue, I agree there needs to be a "back button" as well. (This is useful to easily back up and analyze a move; the back button is also useful to repeatedly press sometimes, to back up even two or more moves, from the current position, it is the easiest and most intuitive method when playing over a game.)

This type of animation is clearly "the future" for WP. (What are we waiting for?) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 02:23, 24 December 2012 (UTC) p.s. BTW the movement is great but I think the WP chess icons suck. But that is easily changed.

FWIW, i created a proposal to use this. Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)#Display Chess games (with animation) using PGN data. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 17:04, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

So i modified the script according to the suggestions: moved the controls below the board, added a move-back-one-step button, and moved the PGN from the bottom to the left. please view it on he:User:קיפודנחש/ארגח 3. please note that this page contains huge number of games (around 100) so it may take several seconds to load. Typical chess article will likely contain much less than 100 games and hence will load quicker.

peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 05:39, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Hello, this is a fascinating PGN-viewer, and its quality and complexity for a Javascript application inside Wikimedia is like a miracle for me.

I actually found this discussion here with a specific and rather useless idea in mind, that is: how could Misplaced Pages display an sample game for the longest possible chessgame, which due to the traditional Fifty-move rule should take 5899 moves. Now, a presentation with a Graphics Interchange Format (GIF), with one frame per half-move would take unnecessarily much storage space, and probably the number of possible frames for a GIF has a smaller upper limit (for example File:Mandelbrot sequence new.gif has 475 frames). On the other hand, creating a PGN file of a longest sample game would be much easier than of a GIF, and could be done half-automatized, or with copy- and paste techniques. Of course it then would be great, if it was possible to show this long game on a PGN-viewer within Misplaced Pages, Greetings Rosenkohl (talk) 12:35, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Live ratings

Unsurprisingly, the article Magnus Carlsen is getting filled with "live rating" information, and some people have also added it to the article's infobox (which ignores it). It has also led to a modification of the article Comparison of top chess players throughout history. Should we pay attention to it? Please discuss! :-) Toccata quarta (talk) 20:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I say stick with published ratings! Bubba73 20:22, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. Perhaps a footnote about live ratings might be relevant, but it should never be published ahead or alongside of an official rating. Saying someone's live rating (in the middle of the tournament) is higher than someone's published rating is like the difference between leading a tournament after X rounds and actually winning it at the end. ChessPlayerLev (talk) 21:35, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there was ever a reason to use live ratings in Misplaced Pages, but now that FIDE publishes ratings every month it's especially pointless. WP:NOTNEWS, WP:CRYSTAL, and WP:RS apply. Normally we should be able to wait until the next month's ratings list. Quale (talk) 02:51, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Per Quale, and everyone else too. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 01:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Peter Lalić

I have notability and COI concerns about Peter Lalić. The article was mainly edited by one editor, and that editor edits almost nothing else. Bubba73 19:09, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

It seems eminently deletion-worthy. Toccata quarta (talk) 19:18, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. The lead is supposed to make clear why notable, and for e.g., there's nothing in the lead that does so. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 01:49, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Carlsen's rating record

When the January 2013 FIDE rating list is published, Carlsen will officially have the highest rating in history. Should this make the "In the news" section of the main page? It did report on the latest Chess Olympiad, and prominent individuals are often highlighted there (such as Ravi Shankar at the moment). I don't have any experience with nominating things for the main page, though. Toccata quarta (talk) 09:15, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Rohini Khadilkar

Hi all, I've spent an hour trying to sort out a mess that looked like this at Rohini Khadilkar. Not being a chess person, I don't understand some of the statements and have been unable to link some stuff (World Zonal Championships, for example). It is also devoid of sources, apart from a couple of not particularly useful external links. Can anyone here take this on? You'll probably know better where to look. - Sitush (talk) 13:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Chess in The Seventh Seal

I have just suggested on Talk:The Seventh Seal that the section of the article called "Chess in the film" be removed. If you are interested in the matter, please take a look at the section here: The_Seventh_Seal#Chess_in_the_film and drop by the talk page to make a comment. 99.192.64.215 (talk) 17:18, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Final Four of College Chess

Hi guys, User:Alantheodoresherman needs help in bringing up Final Four of College Chess to WP:GOODARTICLE status. He just created it through the WP:AFC initiative and might be new to Misplaced Pages so please don't bite! —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 00:45, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

How did it make it past AFC approval without any references? Sasata (talk) 01:23, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

ω Awaiting Guys, I really really need your help with Alan. It seems that he has a lot of pictures for the Final Four but I'm not a member of this WikiProject nor have an interest on it. Could someone please help him and join us at the discussion on his talk page? Please remember that he is a newcomer and we should WP:NOBITE. —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 18:21, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Without any references to independent (third-party), reliable sources, it is not yet clear if the article topic is sufficiently notable to warrant a Misplaced Pages article. I suggest getting this straightened out is much more important than providing photos for the article. Sasata (talk) 18:36, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. May I suggest that you, being a member of this WikiProject, help in such endeavor? I will give you one to help you get started: .—Ahnoneemoos (talk) 20:46, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not a member of this project, just a chessplayer. I might help, but am still not convinced of the subject's notability, per WP:SIGCOV: "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail". All I can find with a Google search (other than blogs that don't quite meet the reliable source criteria) are fleeting mentions in newspaper articles. This is why this should have been resolved before the article was AFC approved; currently, the article is perhaps a candidate for WP:AFD (but that would be bitey). Maybe some of the project members have back issues to Chess Life, which might have an article that discusses the tournament and its history in some detail? Sasata (talk) 21:22, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

It's not that hard: —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 21:51, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Then please try harder; as has been discussed several times on WP:RSN, about.com is generally not useable as a reliable source, and the author of that piece does not qualify as an expert per WP:SPS. Sasata (talk) 22:03, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

It seems that you are focused on arguing rather than on actually improving the article. Why? —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 00:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Because the article was faultily approved through WP:AFC without proper sources, and then brought here with the expectation that others would clean up the mess, which wastes editor time. Did you approve this? The reviewing directions for AFC are quite clear: "References about the subject – at least one lengthy paragraph, preferably more. Not passing mentions, not directory listings, not just any old thing that happens to have the name in it. Several of them. The subject of the article must be notable." It is not yet clear that the subject of the article meets this criteria. And no, a promotional brochure does not qualify as a reliable source. Sasata (talk) 07:42, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Magnus Carlsen

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone has Agdestein's 2004 book Wonderboy: How Magnus Carlsen became the Youngest Chess Grandmaster in the World. I'm planning to take the article to GAN soon, but the second paragraph of "Childhood" is lacking citations (and the section could probably be expanded). Will order if no-one here has access. Thanks, Sasata (talk) 20:41, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

If you want to make it a GA—which is something that I'll gladly help you with—there are multiple issues to solve. I'll post about them on the article's talk page soon. Toccata quarta (talk) 21:05, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

That would be great – any suggestions for further improvement are appreciated! Sasata (talk) 21:06, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and nominated it for GAN, as I think it's close to fulfilling the GA criteria, and any small problems can be fixed in the wait time for review, or during the review itself. Thanks, Toccata quarta, for your continuing efforts in improving the article; this is one of the most highly-viewed chess articles so it would be nice to get it up to a good standard. After GAN I'd like to put it up for A-class review, but I'm not really sure how active this project is and whether there would be many available or willing to review it. I think a FAC nomination would not be too unrealistic, but I'd have to first track down some more literature; being fairly young, there's not a lot of books written about Carlsen, and I suspect the most useful sources would be articles in chess magazines, or ChessBase CDs. Sasata (talk) 07:20, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I have a copy of Agdestein's 2004 book Wonderboy: How Magnus Carlsen became the Youngest Chess Grandmaster in the World. You should really order your own copy though. :-) Let me know if you want anything in particular cited, though maybe Toccata quarta or others have copies as well? I'll keep an eye out for the promised post on the article talk page about issues. Trying to work out what the best sources are to use post-2004 could be tricky. What you will want is the longer, more thoughtful analyses of his progress since 2004, if they aren't already used as sources. Carcharoth (talk) 08:35, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

This article has just been promoted to GA status! Thanks to Toccata quarta for his helpful assistance in copyediting and finding sources. I will continue working on this article with an eye to FA candidacy sometime this year; I've recently received Wonderboy and am currently reading through it for stuff to add. Sasata (talk) 15:50, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

WP Chess in the Signpost

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Chess for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. –Mabeenot (talk) 04:44, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Is anyone interested in representing this project in the Signpost interview? If not, we'll have to pick another project. –Mabeenot (talk) 17:40, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes it helps to poke a bit :-). I have added some responses to the questions. Sjakkalle (Check!) 18:36, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! It looks good. –Mabeenot (talk) 19:00, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Halibut gambit merge to English Opening

There is a disagreement at Halibut gambit over whether it should be merged to English Opening. Anyone who has an opinion is invited to discuss it at Talk:Halibut gambit. Quale (talk) 18:28, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

• I think you merging it with English Opening was very generous, for quite frankly I cannot see any coverage of this gambit even in specialized literature. I have nominated it for AFD. Sjakkalle (Check!) 18:39, 20 January 2013 (UTC)I

Nomination of List of officers of the Oxford University Chess Club for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of officers of the Oxford University Chess Club is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of officers of the Oxford University Chess Club until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. --Ks0stm 18:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Category:European Chess Champions needed?

I don't think we need Category:European Chess Champions. According to WP:CAT, a category should be a "defining characteristic" of its subject. I don't think this category is a defining characteristic. In such cases a list is usually more appropriate than a category, and we have such a list at European Individual Chess Championship. I wanted to see what others in the project thought before nominating it at WP:CFD. What do you think? I have similar concerns about Category:Chess double grandmasters. Quale (talk) 04:38, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

List of officers of the Oxford University Chess Club

List of officers of the Oxford University Chess Club was up for AfD, which closed over a week ago with the consensus to merge. The article still exists and hasn't been merged. Does someone want to do that? Bubba73 05:02, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I would rather delete it. That's one of the great things about a "merge" outcome at AFD—Sometimes no one wants to do the work. I think one of the merge voters should be required to do it, or perhaps the person who closed it. Quale (talk) 05:04, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I did remind the nominator about it on his talk page. Bubba73 01:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Fischer's memory

I've read that Fischer had an amazing memory; that he remembered everything he read. I haven't been able to find a reference to that. I checked Endgame and Profile of a Prodigy, but there isn't anything in the index about it. Does anyone know of a reference about Fischer's memory? Bubba73 01:47, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Chess.com

Anyone got any opinion on the recent and ongoing trash-talk and controversy about Misplaced Pages going on among "Chess.com" members on their site? Apparently they just can't understand that the "chess.com" article got deleted from Misplaced Pages in December and have been doing massive amounts of angry discussion and encouraging people to come on Misplaced Pages to disrupt it. Does anyone know about this, have any opinion about it, or about Chess.com in general? OGBranniff (talk) 17:50, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

I think it would be better if they boycott Misplaced Pages instead of disrupt it. Bubba73 18:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Jude Acers middle name?

What is the middle name of Jude Acers? I reverted a recent change based on chessgames, but it has been changed again. Bubba73

I found no reliable source, so would leave it out. He is known as Jude Acers on books, FIDE and USCF information so no need to use a middle name. Regards, Sun Creator 16:03, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

It is Frazier according to his website. Bubba73 19:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Well found! So you've answered your own question. Regards, Sun Creator 20:39, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually the person that changed it, whom I reverted, was kind enough to let me know about it on my talk page. Bubba73 20:48, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Chess diagram using FEN

So i created a new template, {{Chess diagram-fen}}, which is pretty similar in capabilities to {{Chess diagram}}, except that you feed it the FEN string to draw the board. so instead of

{{Chess diagram
| tright
| 
|= 
 8 |rd|nd|bd|qd|kd|bd|nd|rd|=
 7 |pd|pd|pd|pd|  |pd|pd|pd|=
 6 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |=
 5 |  |  |  |  |pd|  |  |  |=
 4 |  |  |  |  |pl|pl|  |  |=
 3 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |=
 2 |pl|pl|pl|pl|  |  |pl|pl|=
 1 |rl|nl|bl|ql|kl|bl|nl|rl|=
    a  b  c  d  e  f  g  h
| The King's Gambit
}}

you write

{{Chess diagram-fen
| fen=rnbqkbnr/pppp1ppp/8/4p3/4PP2/8/PPPP2PP/RNBQKBNR
| align=tright
| footer=The King's Gamit
}}

i will be happy to hear what you guys think. also, let me know if there's any missing feature, or if you have problems seeing the template with any specific browser, esp. older version of IE, and any mobile browser.

currently, the {{Chess diagram-fen}} template only deals with 8x8 boards, and does not support any of the "special" features, such as drawing X's and O's, digits, or fairy pieces. it *does* have one feature the regular template doesn't — it can display the board from the black's point of view, i.e. with h8 at the lower left corner.

the main thing, in my mind, is switching from the tedious and non-standard format of Template:Chess diagram to a standard and ubiquitous FEN notation. however, there is one additional advantage: wikipedia saves it more than twice as fast as it saves the existing template: e.g., User:קיפודנחש/sandbox contains 36 instances of Template:Chess diagram, and takes about 45 seconds to save, and in contrast User:קיפודנחש/sandbox2 contains 80 instances of Template:Chess diagram-fen, and takes less than 40 seconds to save. i do not believe it's even possible to have 80 instances of Template:Chess diagram on one page on enwiki — it would blow up with error/timeout when you try to save it.

peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 07:49, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

It's very nice! Congratulations!OTAVIO1981 (talk) 14:21, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Like #PGN viewer again fascinating, Rosenkohl (talk) 14:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm impressed, I think this could be a good replacement for the current chess diagram template for most uses. Quale (talk) 05:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

There is more discussion of it here and here. Bubba73 05:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Notability (International Masters and chess in England)

I recently stumbled across Lawrence Trent, a one-line stub on an English IM. It was prodded for deletion and then sourced (sort of) and the prod removed. I don't think many IMs rise to the level of notability needed for Misplaced Pages articles, but am not going to nominate it for deletion myself as there are many articles about chess in England (and the rest of the UK) that (IMO) shouldn't have articles but do (and conversely others that don't have articles that should). I'm not sure I can be fully objective about this, though, as I know some of the people in question (the same applies to List of officers of the Oxford University Chess Club - it was quite bizarre seeing some names there that I recognise). Would it be OK if I made a list here of various articles that might not meet notability guidelines, or would it be best to read up on any specific guideline here first? I should note that I have created a few chess-related articles art various points: B. H. Wood, CHESS magazine, Phillips & Drew Kings, Karen Grigorian, American Chess Bulletin, and List of FIDE chess world number ones. Where would those lie on the spectrum of notability? Carcharoth (talk) 02:57, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea; I'm all for it. Are you going to publish the list on this talk page? OGBranniff (talk) 03:49, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

A good start would be casting a critical eye over Category:British chess biography stubs, especially the living people there. When I was thinking of people who might (going by instinct, maybe not the best guide) have or should have Misplaced Pages articles who are not GMs, I thought of Michael Basman (article looks OK), Malcolm Pein (no article), Stewart Reuben, Leonard Barden, William Hartston, and so on. One I came across that was unexpected was Peter Lalić (son of GM Bogdan Lalić and IM and WGM Susan Lalic). But there are undoubtedly other articles with issues with notability as well. I suspect the same could be said for chess coverage in other countries as well, but chess in England is what I'm most familiar with. Some other articles I noticed included Julian Simpole, Tim Woolgar. There were some others, but as I said I know some of the people and I'm reluctant to name the articles as I'm not sure I can be objective (I'd either be too lenient in assessing the article subject for notability, or too harsh). Carcharoth (talk) 05:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I was inspired by your first post so I proceeded to nominate the Lawrence Trent article for deletion here Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Lawrence_Trent. Thanks for pointing that out. I also nominated the laughably blatant advertising of Julian Simpole. You know, if you identify and list any articles you feel do not meet notability, verfiability, or any other Misplaced Pages criteria, I will be more than willing to craft a policy rationale as to why they fail standards and send each and every one of them off to AFD. We could work together like the (redacted) in Germany... you investigate and identify the deficient articles, and I'll round them up and ship them off. It'll be efficient. OGBranniff (talk) 06:36, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

i understand that this was meant as humor, but i'd like to point out that i found it offensive. Peace- קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 08:41, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

I would like to thank Arbcom member User:Carcharoth for inspiring me with his initial post in this regard. I was wondering if he, or anyone else who would like to assist in this project to suggest other "categories" of chess articles that may have large numbers of notability issues. Is there a master list of categories we can peruse anywhere? It is interesting how "categorization" can lead to things being quickly identified and quickly marked for "special attention," as in cases like this. Thank you for the heads-up and inspiration. We shall make Misplaced Pages a better place, working together. OGBranniff (talk) 06:46, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I fail to see how a lack of information will make Misplaced Pages better. Toccata quarta (talk) 06:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

The removal of spurious, trivial "factoids" that fail to meet general Misplaced Pages standards of WP:RS, WP:V, and WP:GNG is not the same as "lack of information." Like several other senior editors have said before, the chess articles here do not receive a "special pass" on flouting Misplaced Pages policy. Thank you. OGBranniff (talk) 06:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Julian Simpole

Hello. This chess related article is being discussed for deletion, comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Julian Simpole are welcome. --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 16:35, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

should this be merged?

Life Master (chess), Chess master, and Chess expert have been merged into Chess titles. Chess master is a title, but there is also a general notion of what a chess master is, predating the official titles. I do not think that it should be merged like this. Bubba73 00:35, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I like separate articles on the titles myself. I say we just keep the items separate until there is a rational consensus to merge, eh? OGBranniff (talk) 01:20, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

I also checked the article for National_master and it redirects to Chess titles. What's up with that; shouldn't National Master have a standalone article as well? There are National masters from many nations, not just the USA. OGBranniff (talk) 01:21, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Those articles were merged by another editor a short time ago. Bubba73 01:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Candidate master redirects to FIDE titles, which is not exactly the same as chess titles. I think there is a confusing mess that needs to be cleaned up. Bubba73 01:25, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

I think then we should bust it up, re-separate the articles. I am thinking about writing the "National Master" article. OGBranniff (talk) 06:45, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Chess Master should definitely have its on article because it is a general term, and "chess master" is not a formal title. The others are debatable. Bubba73 03:07, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I restored chess master to the way it was, but I left chess titles alone (for now). Bubba73 02:57, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Victor Buerger

Note that a chess-related biography is being discussed for deletion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Victor Buerger Dl2000 (talk) 22:57, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lawrence Trent

An AfD related to this project. J04n(talk page) 12:19, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

AFD of historic masters

There has been a batch of AFD's all with the same rational that fail is grasp the historical context of older chess masters. The grandmaster title started in 1950 so those of a previous era won't any such official title. If a worlds top 100 player from pre-1900 are not notable it's going to put consider impact on deleting grandmaster of the current era, some of which would NOT make the worlds top 1000 players. Regards, Sun Creator 12:40, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

OGBranniff AfD criteria

User:OGBranniff, curious to know your opinion regarding the notability of this person: George H. D. Gossip. (Notable? Why or why not?) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 06:05, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Inappropriate

Does anyone else think that this is not an appropriate level of discourse for the front page of a public discussion board that is visited by women and children? Sasata (talk) 21:20, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

IMO, it's beyond inappropriate. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 21:50, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it is appropriate. Bubba73 21:57, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I also find it unacceptable. Toccata quarta (talk) 22:11, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

But, why do you not find it appropriate or acceptable? Nobody has advanced any rationale behind their opinion. I don't see anything wrong with it myself. It's true, to the point, and describes my lifestyle and interests. What's the problem? OGBranniff (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Read what Sasata wrote. And get a clue. Here's a quote from you: "Are you that dense? You probably are. That's not my problem." Ihardlythinkso (talk) 23:48, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Where is there any evidence that "women and children" visit that page, or more specifically, closely read it? Even if they do, "Misplaced Pages is NOT censored." Jimmy Wales himself would back me up on this issue and you know it. Thank you. OGBranniff (talk) 23:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Then tell us why you redacted here. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 00:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

I opened a discussion about OGBranniff's behavior at WP:ANI#Behavioral problems with User:OGBranniff. Quale (talk) 00:48, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Talking about Nazis and the SS is a bit different than talking about sluts. OGBranniff (talk) 00:49, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

How are they different in relation to the NOT censored argument you brought up? And, you failed to answer my Q: Why did you redact? Ihardlythinkso (talk) 00:59, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Because I chose to self-censor myself in the first comment and am choosing not to in the second. You really are dense, aren't you? OGBranniff (talk) 01:07, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes I'm dense, yes. But not at the moment. You still didn't answer my Q: Why did you redact? (You only stated that you "chose to" redact. Of course you chose to, else you wouldn't have. I'm asking you why you chose to. Please answer this time, without insulting further.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 01:18, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

The answer is in my response of 00:49 above. Thank you. OGBranniff (talk) 01:22, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

You're saying at 00:49 that the comments were "different". (No contest there -- they are different.) But that does not answer what it was about the first comment that caused you to decide to redact. (Saying it's "different" from a comment you did not redact, does not explain your reason for redacting. Please explain that reason, and quit dodging my Q.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 01:33, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Figure it out yourself, kid. If you want everything spelled out to you in small bite size kindergarten-level chunks I'm not going to play along. Why don't you tone it down a bit, will you, while we are at it? "quit dodging my Q," as if your queries were a life and death situation or you're the chairman of some Senate investigation. Grow up. Thank you. OGBranniff (talk) 01:41, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

You said I was "dense", so, go ahead, spell it out for me. (Why did you choose to redact the Nazi comment?) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 02:03, 12 March 2013 (UTC)