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Personal page protection/block request

Hello, Dennis, I noticed that you're on Wikibreak and I apologize for bothering you, but I have a personal request which you may help me with... I am leaving Misplaced Pages and would really like my account to be either blocked (permanently - I have no intention returning again for multiple reasons, mostly because of being tired of people greatly abusing WP:SOURCE instead of spending 5 minutes themselves to find and add in all of the necessary references to an article, partially because of personal physical health issue) or fully protected (at least the user page and the "Talk" page). Since I will be leaving, I will not be able to "clean it up" from harassment/vandalism such as this and this or whatever other vandalism there might be, so some kind of permanent block/protection would be really appreciated... I've submitted the request to WP:RFP but I doubt that anything useful will come from it :-/ Rndomuser (talk) 00:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

• I can possibly do any one of the above, but blocking is a very permanent thing, so I won't until I have discussed it with you and I'm convinced you understand all the ramifications, and that this is what you really want. I recommend you email me and we discuss this in private over the next day or two. I won't release the content of the discussion to anyone, and this way you can talk freely, and we can discuss your options freely. I hate to see any editor leave, but I do respect that there are times when it is appropriate or best for that person. Before I would do anything, I would want to have a better understanding, in as far as you are willing to explain, so I can at least offer some guidance and options. I am busy, but I will gladly take the time to assist you fully in this. You can use the "email this user" function here at Misplaced Pages to contact me. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:44, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

I'd rather not engage into long discussions (even if they are completely private) right now... If you're unwilling to put a permanent account block - could you at least apply a full page protection to the "Talk" and User pages? That would be also fine, at least until I might have time to e-mail you in some time in future. Rndomuser (talk) 00:54, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Full protection is potentially problematic, particularly for the talk page, so I will need to research the policy on that in the morning to make sure I'm not exceeding my authority in doing that. I respect your desire to avoid a long conversation, but ethically, I can't block without it. Instead, we will look at putting the maximum amount of protection that policy will allow on those two pages. I will follow up. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:09, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

@Rndomuser, if you'd like to block yourself, why don't you just use the WikiBreak Enforcer? Otherwise, see Category:Misplaced Pages administrators willing to consider placing self-requested blocks. ~Adjwilley (talk) 01:20, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Um, if you look at that list, I'm one of those admin willing to consider self-blocks ;) My criteria is at User:Dennis Brown/Blockme I assumed that is why he is here. All of them have the same basic criteria, needing to discuss it first. I think his main concern is making sure no one vandalizes his pages, which is what I will research in the morning, to make sure I get it right and provide the highest level of protection that policy allows. It is just an unusual (but valid) request and I expect to have it complete well before lunch tomorrow. I've already warned the last person who vandalized his page, and they have blanked their own talk page, indicating they have read it. I have already watchlisted his page as well. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER

Yeap, that's why I contacted Dennis ;-) And "full block" request was not because I can't prevent myself from returning to Wiki (I actually can... unlike one of the poor souls who have recently attempted to do so by scrambling the password ;-))... In any case, full protection or not - thanks for your efforts! Also, I've sent you an e-mail, Dennis - it's not really about a "block request" (you shouldn't treat it as such) but more of a general explanation for my reasons. If you have time - you should probably read it ;-) Rndomuser (talk) 02:34, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, well I feel kinda silly. I had never read the list, I just knew it existed. @Rndomuser, I also watchlisted your talk page when I commented here yesterday. Good luck, in whatever future endeavors you decide to pursue. ~Adjwilley (talk) 17:17, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

No reason to feel silly. I think most people that are familiar with me wouldn't expect I would be on the list of "Admin willing to do self-blocks", but to me, it is a part of editor retention. Some people do need to get away from here, for their own health. Others, need someone to talk to before they do something rash. I need to check up on the policy on that, I've been mega-swamped today, just popped in to answer my talk page, so folks won't think I'm ignoring them. Think I will semi-protect for now, at least. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:52, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

• I've full protected the redirected user page, and semi-protected the user talk page. That is about as far as I can go at this time. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:45, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Rndomuser (talk) 23:56, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Socks and ANI

Okay, so you've closed it, and everyone seems happy apart from the fact that I'm still under suspicion of running socks, no retraction of the claim has been made, nor any apology. It may be a satisfactory result for the instigator of all this, but it's not for me. I want this to be fixed one way or another, if that's (a) retracting the statements and apologising or (b) running a checkuser and publishing the results to all concerned, either way I don't mind. But I don't want this matter closed as it stands. Right now the instigator has made unfounded accusation without evidence and left it hanging. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:24, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

• And I do understand. I've been chatting with him on his talk page some, I didn't just close and walk away. I already noted that an apology is due (twice, actually), but right now, him walking away for a day and then coming back to apologize would likely be the better solution because: 1. he is more likely to understand his mistake once the emotion has died down and 2. he is more likely to be sincere. As a bonus, it would mean a higher likelihood of you two finding common ground. I've had the same claims made against me, and I reacted the same way you are now, so again, I really do understand. If someone feels I've made a mistake, they know they can undo anything I've done with no hard feelings, but I think a breather is the right answer for the next 24 hours. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:35, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Cool. We'll see what happens in the next day or two. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:37, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Thank you for the trust. Ping me if you need to. I did give him an admonishment in the close, btw, and fortunately he is open to hearing my perspective on the matter. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
      • Ok. I'd like to keep this all on-wiki, part of various lengthy accusations implied certain off-wiki collaborations (as well as the sock puppetry), none of which is true, so I'd prefer to keep it visible to all. Thanks again. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:49, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
        • Completely understandable. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:21, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
        • I see has clarified the situation on his talk page and your. We seldom get the exact apology we were looking for, and there is still some antagonism between the two of you that I don't need to get involved in, I do think he was sincere in addressing the sockpuppeting issue. For what it is worth, as an SPI Clerk Trainee®, I find no evidence of sockpuppeting and likely would have closed the case with prejudice had it come to SPI, and think any other admin would conclude the same. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:54, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

RfC/U

Having been involved in a recent RFC/U on Niemti regarding his behavior which you probably might not be aware of, I have a question regarding RFC/Us in general if they are closed. While I sincerely apologize for providing inconclusive evidence if I did so in the past or present and note that I have always moved on from previous disputes, I can understand that anyone can find other ways involving a dispute between a user over their conduct is not resolved after an RFC/U closes, but what do you think would be the next step if an RFC/U closes in general? Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:02, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I remember the unban discussion here where Ched was very, very bold in unblocking him. I opposed that unblock on purely technical grounds, although I supported the idea of finding a way to allow him back to try to contribute properly. He was technically socking when we unblocked him. Really, it was an improper unblock as far as the strict letter of policy is concerned (sorry Ched) but Ched has earned enough respect that the community let it slide via WP:IAR, essentially. I've done similar (see the discussion about Kwami above on this very page), so I understand the risk and the reasons he did what he did. Ched and I are similar in that respect, willing to extend a little more rope than average if a user has the potential to make a positive difference. In this case, I really don't know how I feel, I would have to explore deeper, although considering his recent blocks and very ugly past, I can see why others may think he has reached the end of his rope.

Realistically, if his behavior is problematic (and I haven't looked close enough to have an opinion) then a ban would be in order. Since Ched made the unblock but didn't participate in the RFC/U, I would recommend getting him in the loop. If a ban is needed, I think it would be stronger if it came from the admin that unblocked him to begin with. If it does go to WP:AN or WP:Arb, I would request (but not require) you notify me as I've been previously involved. That doesn't mean I will support a ban, but at that time I will take a long, hard look at the situation and participate in an honest way. User:JamesBWatson made the first block on this new account for socking, and I would recommend getting him in the loop. If you haven't crossed paths with him, he is truly a great guy, firm but fair, and easily make my top 10 admin list. He is out of pocket for a couple more days.

On an unrelated note, I've spent a couple of hours trying to source the very start of High Rock and have come up empty. That is a very important part of the story, however, so I haven't given up on that one aspect. I may jump over and dig up all the current Alcoa elements, which are somewhat easier to find, although we will have to be careful with NPOV since that is a very heated topic with HRL. I will likely start working on a rough draft of "facts" and sources soon, which is how I work, then we can weed out the trivial stuff. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:53, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I completely understand the situation quite clearly now, and thanks. Also, just to clarify, being a constructive editor is not an excuse for uncivil behavior. And yes, I have known JamesBWatson very well, so I will notify him in this case, as well as other users who were previously involved in dealing with Niemti about the RFC/U. As for HRL, I've started a discussion on the talk page. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:02, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Just curious - what does "out of pocket" mean to an American? To a Brit it means "has spent some money" -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

By out of pocket, it means that the user is out for a couple of days, lad. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:31, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - what a curious usage! -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:36, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't think that's entirely widespread. Where I come from it tends to mean an individual purchasing something that they could have reasonably expected someone else to pay for (i.e. a teacher needs books, but the school won't provide them, so the teacher purchases them out of pocket). Sometimes the item might still be reimbursed (i.e. my dad needed softballs for the tournament so he purchased them out of pocket and sent the bill to the school). Ryan Vesey 01:55, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Yep, that's pretty much what it means here in the UK - someone has been hit by unexpected or unfair expenses. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 02:05, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

It means either here in the US, but "out of pocket expense" is the most common usage here, just as in the UK. I forget that using it as "will be away" isn't very widespread, even in the US. It is a curious expression. Perhaps a mangling of "out of reach" or "not within my grasp" is the basis, or maybe a billiards expression is the root, but I have no clue. It is just one of those things you grow up hearing and just use from time to time, like "Well, I swan" or "mayonnaise" as in "mayonnaise a lot of people here right now" ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 10:05, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

My dad and grandfather tend to make up a lot of their own expressions, so I'll go around using them in the understanding that it is a regular phrase. Then I'll use it in the real world and people look at me like I'm crazy. A similar thing happens because of my little brother and sister. A number of years back, they watched Finding Nemo every day, but they always called it "Fish", so in my house we tended to refer to it as fish. A couple of times I'd end up referring to it as fish outside of the house. Ryan Vesey 15:59, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I did a little research, and found I'm not the only one using the expression, although it is somewhat rare. It is mentioned in the book "Word Court" and there are several discussion to be found were people are trying to determine the source of the expression. Some tracing it to the 70s and 80s, some to the east coast (I learned it in Texas, however), but no one seeming to know the real source. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:33, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

In Texas, every expression has a slightly different meaning. I did a residency for 3 years in Houston about 100 years ago, and had to relearn English when I left! DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 19:41, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I finally broke (mainly) the habit of "fixin' to", a Texasism that is ingrained at birth. I'm quite articulate in person, even if my redneck heritage shows through from time to time. Well, I'm fixin' to go work on these curing lamps, so will check back later ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:43, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Aha, so this ain't your first rodeo; obviously you ex-caped without gettin' broke too bad. I do miss the kickers every now and again...but I'll never forget the look on the waitress's face when my wife (unaware as yet that Coke and sweet tea were her only drink options) ordered cranberry juice in a restaurant. I'm sure you can guess the response: "Hun, you ain't from around here, are you?" DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 14:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

SPI closed only to admins?

Hi Dennis - I had a SPI case, but the SPI board only says Admins can make ones - is this correct? Patriot1010 (talk) 16:48, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

That is incorrect. Where does it say that? I will fix it. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 16:49, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• What deskana said. Only admin can block and take action in the "admin" section, and generally only clerks and checkusers should file the paperwork stuff (move/tag/etc), but anyone with a registered account can file an SPI. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 17:58, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Hunnic Empire

I noticed you protected the articles which had been disrupted by an IP sock. Could you protect Hunnic Empire which is being disrupted by the same sock? Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

•  Done. Any more might need to go to WP:RFPP, so they don't sit around waiting for me to log in. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:37, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Ok. Thank you sir. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Adoption

When you have time/are back, I was wondering if you would consider adopting me. I'm not the typical adoptee, as I have a few months' experience fighting vandalism and performing other maintenance tasks, however I feel I would benefit from reinforcing the policies and dealing with special situations. To be honest, I'm feeling a bit down after my failed RfA and feel a bit more practice and help from an experienced admin like you, who expressed trust in me, would help me get going again. If/when you have the time, please consider adopting me, or let me know if you know anybody else who would be able to help me. Many thanks, Vacation9 13:01, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

• I thought about this today, and twice started crafting a reply but had to stop due to work butting in, which is the problem right now. Sometimes I get a few days break, but my work is a major bear right now. It is a seasonal career, and this just so happens to be the peak of the busy time. I'm afraid I would do more harm than good right now, as there are sometimes days in a row where I'm barely able to even log in and answer basic questions. As for the RfA, be forewarned that being an admin is really overrated anyway. I waited over five years and sought it with some reluctance. By the time I did seek it, I was already pretty familiar with all the regular situations, which is the core of administrative work. The special circumstances aren't really a rule book, they are just deep understanding of the basics + experience + common sense, with a dash of compassion thrown in. This is why it takes time, and why most successful RfAs are from users who have been here at least two years. I don't use two years as a minute to support at RfA, just saying that history has shown that the odds are much more in your favor. Maybe one of my stalkers will chip in and help, and of course, I will when I can, but don't get in a hurry. I think you will find that you give up more than you gain when you become an admin, particularly in freedom. I will say that I appreciate the hard work you do, and think you have the right attitude and willingness to help others that are needed, it just takes time. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:47, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
  • I completely understand. To be honest, I'm bored of routine tasks around here, so I thought introduction to some more advanced areas would help with that, and help me get active again. Thank you for writing this, and I'll certainly take this to heart. Vacation9 21:38, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
    • The English Misplaced Pages admin flag is one of the hardest flags to get on any Wikimedia site. If you're looking for new things to try, other Wikimedia projects might be something of interest, and I'm sure there's areas of this very large site that you haven't put time into - I know there's a lot that I've never done here. --Rschen7754 22:44, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Sega Genesis

Quick question : Did you intend to full-protect this article indefinitely?

Honestly, I don't have any burning desire to edit the article, but it seems like an overkill to me, so I thought I'd bring it up in case it was an accident. APL (talk) 15:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

• My mistake, I meant to do semi protection for a month, but Twinkle hasn't worked for me to do protection in some time, and I haven't had the time to debug it. I see no one else is reporting problems, so I assume it is something wrong on my end. Fixed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

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AN discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "RfC proposal for community sanctions against Niemti". Thank you. I am notifying you per your request above. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:52, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

March 2013

This is your last warning. The next time you make personal attacks on other people, as you did at User talk:Drmies, you may be burned at the stake without further notice. Comment on content, not on fellow editors. It's hard to imagine a greater insult than wishing an Old Milwaukee on a fellow editor. Except maybe Bud Lite. NE Ent 12:31, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

• I hated to take it so far, but in order to demonstrate that we don't favor admin over non-admin, I felt I needed to let Drmies serve as an example. I stand by my actions, consequences be damned. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:33, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Stand on Zanzibar

Dennis: Could you please take a look at the recent history of editing on this article, as well as the "Predictions" section on the talk page? Ding me for edit warring if you must, but I'm only trying to keep heavily fringe material out of the article. Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:18, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I'm not asking you to take sides in a content dispute, but to comment on the application of policies and guidelines such as BRD, FRINGE, RS and VANDALISM and, of course, EW. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:41, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

• I've offered a way forward that explains the expectations for all articles. I'm not familiar with the subject matter, but how we deal with disputes is pretty clear. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Thanks for giving this your attention. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:02, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Happy Easter

	Easter Eggs
	You have been given some Easter Eggs. Have a very Happy Easter! Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:41, 1 April 2013 (UTC)