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Soap Operas Project‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Soap Operas, an effort to build consistent guidelines for and improve articles about soap operas and telenovelas on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit WikiProject Soap Operas, where you can join the project and/or the discussion.Soap OperasWikipedia:WikiProject Soap OperasTemplate:WikiProject Soap Operassoap opera Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Archives

Index March 2005 – September 2007 October 2007 – March 2008 March 2008 – February 2009 February 2009 – May 2011 September 2011 –

This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present.

Recreation of Joey Rainbow

I've spoken to Cirt, the deleter of said article three years earlier and I have been working on it in my userspace for a while and feel it is ready to go as I now have several sources with a large development section and he has no objection but did advise me to consult a few wikiprojects before proceeding. Is anyone opposed to this? Conquistador2k6Talk to me, Dammit!

Proposed deletion of Maggie Barnes (Dallas)

The article Maggie Barnes (Dallas) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:N - no mention of notability; nonnotable secondary TV soap opera character

While all contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 76.65.128.43 (talk)

One Life to Live/General Hospital/Prospect Park shakeup

I have tweaked the information that IP 199.17.222.10. added about this to the Roger Howarth, Michael Easton and Kristen Alderson articles; I mostly tweaked the information because, as the source shows, these reported/speculated changes (that these actors will no longer portray their One Life to Live characters, and why that is) have not yet been confirmed by the companies that own the television programs. I'm alerting this project to this because help may be needed in dealing with more such additions from this IP or other IPs/registered editors. And also because if these reported/speculated changes do happen, help may be needed to keep the Todd Manning and Starr Manning articles in shape. The John McBain (One Life to Live) article is not much work in that regard, as it is currently mostly made up of plot. Flyer22 (talk) 22:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Wisner Washam

Deletion discussion that any of you may be interested in weighing in on. Flyer22 (talk) 19:03, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Kate Howard article -- name issue

There is a name issue going on with this article, as seen with the following diff-links: . But back and forth or not, per WP:COMMONNAME, this article should stay at the Kate Howard title until the alternate name is as much as or more so the common name for this character as Kate is, if that ever happens. So more eyes on this matter are likely needed and would be appreciated by me, especially since I barely watch General Hospital, the show this character is from. Flyer22 (talk) 12:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Titles for supercouple articles

Hello everyone. Recently, some soap opera supercouple pages have been moved from, for example, "Nicholas Newman and Sharon Collins" to Nick and Sharon, or "J.T. Hellstrom and Colleen Carlton" to J.T. and Colleen, as that is what they are primarily known by. However, someone has brought it to my attention that we are writing an encyclopedia for all readers, not just soap fans, so some formality is needed and that includes last names. Please note that the article Luke and Laura is the only exception, as they are highly notable and do not require last names. Please contribute your opinions here as to what we should be titling supercouple articles. Creativity97 21:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I think the articles should include the full names. We cannot just go by what they are called by fans of that couple. Again, Luke and Laura, is the exception, many people know what you mean when you say "Luke and Laura". But for other couples, this is not so, I'd have no idea what the article Nick and Sharon is about, without having read it. I don't know who Nick and Sharon are, but putting their last names at least narrows it down.Caringtype1 (talk) 22:04, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

My thoughts on the matter can be found here at Talk:Luke and Laura (though, with regard to the TomKat example, the TomKat article currently no longer exists) and here at Talk:Nick and Sharon. I prefer the full titles, even in the case of Luke and Laura; they won't always be as well known as they are now. But, for now, I do see Luke and Laura as the exception. Flyer22 (talk) 22:09, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

My opinion is that the WP:COMMONNAME should be used in each case. Someone unfamiliar with "Nick and Sharon" is probably just as unfamiliar with "Nicholas Newman and Sharon Collins", and reading through the common name section, there are various articles that are titled the common name instead of the more encyclopedic name. I also think it gets tricky when there are characters involved that have been on for many years and their individual common names have changed, such as Sharon Newman, or Laura Spencer and the original title "Luke Spencer and Laura Webber." But if an individual couple was more commonly referred to by their full names, then in that article I think the full names should be used. You could use something like Google Trends to help decide. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 23:47, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Google Trends is a very good example, Kelly. From what I read on that link, more people know them by "Nick and Sharon" over "Nicholas Newman and Sharon Collins", but someone who is unfamiliar with them will be just as unfamiliar with either title. I'm really undecided. Luke and Laura should definitely remain under that title as they are extremely notable; I'm sure someone whose never watched General Hospital in their life have heard of Luke and Laura because 30 million Americans watched their onscreen wedding in 1981, and they continue to be reported by mainstream media. And yes, there are umpteen articles titled by their common name over the encyclopedic name. And just to clarify, titling articles with just first names wouldn't be going by their fan names. If we were to do that, Nick and Sharon would be titled "Shick", Luke and Laura "L&L", etc. For now, I'm casting my opinion as going by their common name, which would be just first names. Not everything can go by an encyclopedic name. Also, per WP:UCN, article titles are to go by the most common name as reported in reliable sources. So, in other words, if Nick and Sharon are referred to by that name in most reliable sources, than that is what the article title should be. Creativity97 00:32, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Kelly Marie 0812, like Caringtype1 stated above, "putting their last names at least narrows ." I'm not aware of too many instances where a fictional character has had more than one common name; even in the case of Sharon Newman, though she started off with the name Sharon Collins, her common name has been Sharon Newman for more than a decade. And the article could have easily been titled Nicholas and Sharon Newman (that should be made into a redirect, by the way). To me, having a couple article only go by the couple's first names is like having a character article only go by the character's first name. While some soap operas often have characters refer to each other by their first and last names (their full names), such as in the case of Erica Kane, they are usually more commonly referred to by their first name only. And yet we don't have their articles titled by their first names only. Besides a character being better known by their full name (such as in the case of Erica Kane), we don't do that because it's ambiguous as to which character with that name we are talking about and is often a disambiguation page instead. That stated, an article titled after a couple is significantly less ambiguous. There usually is not going to be two fictional couples, especially two popular fictional couples, that have the same name (first or last); that's even further reduced when it's only the soap opera genre to consider. And the lead of the article should list the couple's full name, like the Nick and Sharon article does, and this also shows up in a Google search.

Creativity97, titling articles with just first names is going by their fan names; it's going by their fan names because it's mostly fans, or viewers who are not fans, who only refer to them by those names, such as Nick and Sharon, not the general public. And elaborating on the fan name aspect further, like I stated in the Luke and Laura discussion I linked to above, these couples are also commonly known by their combined couple names (a portmanteau), and they are known by their combined couple names more so than their uncombined couple names in some cases, and yet we don't have the Nick and Sharon article, for example, titled Shick; the arguments for not doing that are the same for not going by only their first names, except that it's very problematic to go by a portmanteau as the article title since portmanteaus don't identify the couple's names or even if the topic is about a couple. And while article titles on Misplaced Pages usually go by the most common name reported in reliable sources, there are some instances on Misplaced Pages where this is advised against; for example, per Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles#Naming conventions, the "article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name) or a historical eponym that has been superseded." That's why heart attack redirects to Myocardial infarction.

As seen in the aforementioned Luke and Laura discussion, the main reason I didn't want that article to only go by the first names is because I knew that it would lead to editors deciding to have other soap opera couple articles only go by the first names, which is exactly what happened in the case of the Nicholas Newman and Sharon Collins article. Having seen editors on crusades to eliminate soap opera articles from Misplaced Pages, especially soap opera couple articles, I believe that a soap opera couple article only going by the couple's first names adds to these editors' desire to delete such articles because they are likely to view the title as fanboyish/fangirlish and therefore unencyclopedic. But whatever this WikiProject decides to do on the topic of naming couple articles, if anything at all, I won't much protest it.

That's about all I think of this subject at this time. Flyer22 (talk) 01:19, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I still happen to disagree. In terms of narrowing it down, I think it'd make more sense to title it something like Nick and Sharon (The Young and the Restless) or Nick and Sharon (Supercouple). In terms of the heart attack example, that happens to be a case where the medical term is more commonly used than the layman term in the appropriate reliable sources. WP:COMMONNAME gives examples of the opposite situation, such as caffeine, United Kingdom, etc etc. If a couple is more commonly referred to by their full names, that's what they should go by, if by a phrase of first names, then that. It should be the common name in each particular situation, as shown in reliable sources, as WP:UCN clearly states. I don't see it as being comparable to naming an individual article by a first name only, since it is a phrase of two first names. Also most reliable sources wouldn't refer to an individual character by only the first name, so I don't think there are many characters where that is their common name but the article uses the full name instead. If the couple's article is appropriately sourced with notability shown, it should be in no danger of deletion because of its title. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 01:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Kelly Marie 0812. Fan names would be something like "Shick" for Nick and Sharon; using their common names isn't for fans, its so that the article could be easier to locate. Writing Nick and Sharon, their WP:COMMONNAME, is completely fine. Most of the females' maiden names on these articles are widely unknown (Nikki Reed, Sharon Collins, so what's the point of using them?). The media in general don't use surnames. People don't search "Nicholas Newman and Sharon Collins", they search "Nick and Sharon". Adding surnames for general readers who aren't fans just complicates it, IMO. So for someone who is unfamiliar with the topic, formality will just make it more difficult and unnecessary. Google is very good indication of this. Arre 01:54, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I also agree with Kelly Marie 0812 and Arre 9. There is an easy way to settle this discussion. Per what WP:UCN clearly states, article titles of any kind are to be titled by their common name as reported in most reliable sources. Like Arre said, most female characters' maiden names have become widely unknown, therefore, if someone is looking for a supercouple article, they will most likely search for "Nick and Sharon", "Luke and Laura", "J.T. and Colleen", "Daniel and Lily", etc. Even in the case of a supercouple article where surnames are commonly known, a redirect page would already be there. If worst comes to worst, then clarifying the title by adding "Nick and Sharon (supercouple)" would be okay. Can we close this discussion now by saying that: Per WP:UCN, a supercouple article is titled by their most common name as reported in reliable sources? Creativity97 15:26, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Thanks C97! Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 15:56, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Some good points, everyone. However, I do reiterate that, per what I stated above about combined couple names (portmanteaus) often being the WP:COMMONNAME or more so the WP:COMMONNAME, even in the most reliable sources, I don't see this as a case of simply "article titles of any kind are to be titled by their common name as reported in most reliable sources." Following what WP:COMMONNAME states means that we should also realize that it lists exceptions, and that WP:Article titles, which is what WP:COMMONNAME is a part of, lists exceptions to WP:COMMONNAME. For example, one exception that WP:COMMONNAME lists is the following: "Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources." Some of our editors may consider couple titles consisting of only first names to be ambiguous. So, clearly, WP:COMMONNAME does not state "article titles of any kind are to be titled by their common name as reported in most reliable sources." But as for narrowing it down, such as Nick and Sharon to Nick and Sharon (The Young and the Restless), the title should not be disambiguated that way, not unless there is another Nick and Sharon article (a Nick and Sharon from another series or one who are a real-life couple); this is per WP:Disambiguation. But that's why I also stated that "an article titled after a couple is significantly less ambiguous. There usually is not going to be two fictional couples, especially two popular fictional couples, that have the same name (first or last); that's even further reduced when it's only the soap opera genre to consider."

I don't see a need to go by the shortened, less encyclopedic names in these cases, as though it's difficult for readers to find these articles under the full names, but Arre has made exceptionally good points (points I already considered); it's because of those points that I mind less now if the titles of all the soap opera couple or supercouple articles are shortened to the couples' first names. Flyer22 (talk) 17:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

It just has to go with their common name. I do not like using only the character's first names though. It is easier for readers to locate when using surnames.Rain the 1 19:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree, someone searching for a character article, wouldn't just search their first name, they'd search the character's full name. Why should these articles be different?Caringtype1 (talk) 20:00, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

However, per WP:UCN, an article of any kind is to be titled by their most common name as reported in most reliable sources. While I see why some people would prefer the use of surnames, this Misplaced Pages policy clearly states how to title these articles. "Nicholas Newman and Sharon Collins" are commonly known as "Nick and Sharon", same with "Luke and Laura". From what I and others have researched, most supercouples are known by their first names. I think we can close this discussion soon as WP:UCN, a Misplaced Pages policy, states how to title these articles. Creativity97 21:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Creativity97, I pointed out above that WP:COMMONNAME/WP:UCN does not state that articles must go by the most common name; I also pointed out how this is not a simple case of going by the most common name; it can, for example, be argued that the combined couple names, some of which are also reported in a lot of reliable sources (some as much as or more so than the uncombined couple names), are the most common names for some of these couples. Flyer22 (talk) 21:53, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, well, will we be able to reach a consensus here? Because many people have made good arguments that support both just first names and both names. For one thing, Sharon in "Nick and Sharon" has not gone by Collins in over 17 years, same thing in "Victor Newman and Nikki Reed", Nikki has not gone by Reed in almost 30 years. Would articles like this be better off titled something like "Nick and Sharon Newman" and "Victor and Nikki Newman"? Creativity97 00:05, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Just a quick comment; these "super"couples have reached some sort of notability to even warrant articles. And the articles should be (WP:COMMONNAME, again) titled under their common name. This overrides unnecessary formalities. But I do agree that Victor/Nikki should be moved to "Victor and Nikki Newman", as the same with Nick/Sharon. Surnames should be used. Arre 06:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Well in that case, should we just agree to combining both names with the common names? So Nick and Sharon would become "Nick and Sharon Newman", Victor and Nikki would become "Victor and Nikki Newman", and then unmarried super couples would go back to both names? But I still think Luke and Laura should remain as is given their notability. Please post comments here on this suggestion to bring this discussion to a consensus. Creativity97 21:08, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Names in infoboxes

When listing relative names in infoboxes, I believe somewhere it says that WP:COMMONNAMEs should be used... is that the general consensus over current married names? What's really driving me crazy is the constant back and forth on numerous articles that list Carly Jacks vs. Carly Corinthos Jacks (where Carly Corinthos is the common name and Carly Jacks is her currently used name, although divorced). Thoughts? Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 18:51, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it does say somewhere that WP:Commonnames should be used. For example, Victoria Abbott is Victoria Newman's married name, but per WP:COMMONNAME, her infobox name should be Victoria Newman. In this case, Carly Corinthos would be listed as her infobox name as that is her common name. I would suggest putting Carly Corinthos and explaining this policy to anyone who changes it to anything else. Creativity97 21:51, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I think the fact that she was Corinthos for 7 years and for 6 years now she has been referred to as Mrs Jacks or Ms Jacks should be taken into consideration. They are both common names. So its not exactly "current" for her. Google search suggests that the phrase "Jax" (Jacks) is the most commonly searched term after "Carly" regarding her. So idk. Does anyone know, what she's credited as on the show's credits? I think moving the article should be considered.. Does anyone know for sure that Corinthos is her positive common name at the moment? Arre 06:34, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I think their info box name is supposed to be what they are credited by the series. I believe Carly is credited as Carly Corinthos Jacks. I just remembered this. Creativity97 21:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox_soap_character says to use the commonname, which I kind of agree with for the same reasons we wouldn't change the article name every time the character's credits change. But if we decide otherwise we should update the infobox instructions. ABC's website does credit her as Carly Corinthos Jacks, and there are lots of IP wars between that and Carly Jacks in the text and infoboxes of a handful of articles. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 01:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Just use the common name then. But in Carly's case, I'd still put Carly Corinthos Jacks, just to settle IP edit wars. Creativity97 02:13, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

A lot of IP addresses seem to take issue with this one - changing the surname to what the character is called on the given day. I match it to the article title, as that is also (or should be) the common name.Rain the 1 00:52, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

GA reassessment

Hello everyone. I have nominated the good article Dimitri Marick for a community reassessment, as its current state does not meet the good article criteria. Anyone who would like to contribute their opinions on this matter can do so at the discussion here. Thanks! Creativity97 22:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

How does its current state not meet the WP:GA criteria? It's mostly the same as it was the day it was elevated to WP:GA status. You made this edit to the article, and a few others, including having added this copyedit tag to it. The article "missing" some information you feel should be in the article does not mean that it does not satisfy the WP:GA status. Considering that the editor who brought this article to WP:GA status, Rocksey, has not been on Misplaced Pages under her Rocksey account or at all since February 15, 2012, it would be better to send her an email about this WP:GA reassessment instead of just the message you left on her talk page about it. I'll reply with this same comment, and more, in the WP:GA reassessment. Flyer22 (talk) 22:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

After a brief but good look at the article, I don't think it needs a reassessment. Maybe just a clean-up would do, which you seem to have already done Creativity. It's a well sourced article. Arre 10:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

FAC comments?

Hi everyone. I was wondering if any of you have the time, could you please comment here? I've nominated an article for FA, and it would be greatly appreciated if anyone could share their opinions, support or objections. The article is a GA and has been thoroughly copy-edited by a member from the Guild of Copy Editors, so I'd be glad if you can take a look. Arre 06:08, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Sam Morgan (General Hospital)#Requested move

The move request is relisted, so you can decide to vote for or against the proposal to change to Sam Morgan. --George Ho (talk) 12:59, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Soap Character:Sonny Kiriakis

Could someone pleas do significant edit on this character page this is a character on Days of our Lives who is half of the supercouple Will and Sonny with Will Horton. So can someone please make this article good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.123.182.8 (talk) 22:22, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Note: The above IP is likely the same person (but different IP) who left a message on my talk page, asking that I significantly fix up the article in question. Flyer22 (talk) 22:46, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

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