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This article was nominated for deletion on June 10, 2013. The result of the discussion was SNOW keep.

The contents of the Edward Snowden in Hong Kong page were merged into Edward Snowden on June 16, 2013. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

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Raul Castro

Has issued a statement supporting other countries' rights to grant asylum. But not whether Snowden would be allowed to transit Cuba.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/2013/07/07/raul-castro-backs-asylum-offers-nsa-leaker/u2Paj4t1fdHB22NPmQv64I/story.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.20.55.6 (talk) 04:01, 8 July 2013‎ (UTC)

Where is he?

There's so much media noise about the asylum seeking and official government announcements from governments that I no longer know where Edward Snowden actually is, at this point in time. I can't ascertain with any umm certainty from the news media, or more importantly, from our WP article ;o) Is Edward Snowden STILL in that airport in Moscow?

I would suggest considering the addition of an info box to the article, with a very brief time line. Item 1 could be May 1, Snowden leaves house in Hong Kong, Item 2 could be whenever he arrived in Hong Kong if we know the date. Item 3 is the date of his arrival at that airport in Moscow. Item 4 is or will be whenever we know that he has departed Moscow. I am happy to add this, but want to know what y'all think about it.

Second issue

One may not study for a Master's degree without completion of a Bachelor's degree. Snowden didn't even have a high school diploma, but he did have a GED. That qualified him for study at a community college or four year degree program. He never came close to receiving either designation. He possibly completed a class in "MS Windows 2000 Systems Engineer w/ Exchange", but there seems to be no evidence that he completed it. This is from the Washington Post:

"... Snowden also said he attended classes at Johns Hopkins on a campus in Columbia, Maryland. A spokeswoman for Johns Hopkins University said they have "no record" of Edward Snowden taking classes there. Instead, the Maryland Higher Education Commission said that someone named Ed Snowden actually took "MS Windows 2000 Systems Engineer w/ Exchange" at a for-profit entity known as Advanced Career Technologies from February 2002 to May 2002. The school offered career training in Columbia, Maryland, under the name "Computer Career Institute at Johns Hopkins University." Hopkins ended its relationship with the company in 2009 and it shut down in 2012."

As for the Master's degree, I realize that a number of sources say the following:

"In addition, Snowden did work towards a Master's Degree at the University of Liverpool, taking an online Computer Security class in 2011. Kate Mizen, head of public relations for the University of Liverpool, said he studied there, but "he is not active in his studies and has not completed the program.""

He took one online computer security class in 2011 at the University of Liverpool, which he didn't necessarily complete (after being employed by the CIA et al. as an information technology expert for four, five (?) years prior). That hardly counts as doing work toward a Master's degree. It is misleading to state that he studied for a Master's degree, while omitting the fact that he never obtained a Bachelor's degree. (This entire thing is just blowing my mind, as I know so many people who actually went to school, have credentials and experience, and could never in their wildest dreams get a job like Edward Snowden had, but that is beside the point. For that matter, I would like to have Edward Snowden's job! I'm better qualified than he was. I would hazard a guess that at least 25% of the contributors to WP articles are more qualified than Ed was for his $122,000 per year job...)

In fact, the quote as cited should be: 'A spokesperson for the university said that in 2011 Snowden registered for an online master's degree program in computer security and that "he is not active in his studies and has not completed the programme."

(British spelling is in the original, in the article this is incorrectly spelt as 'program'. 2.96.96.198 (talk) 08:16, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Third issue

Finally, it would be a good idea to mention something about Edward Snowden's girlfriend. Maybe you did, I couldn't find anything. The BBC said that her name is Lindsey Wells, and that they moved out of the house together on May 1, and that Ed had photos of her pole-dancing (which surprised me, that BBC mentioned that, without further follow-up).

What happened to the girlfriend? Did she travel to Hong Kong with Ed? Is she with him now? Are both the girlfriend AND the female Wikileaks handler with Ed now, at the airport in Russia? I am not being sarcastic. I don't see this covered, and as a woman, I would really like to know. These sort of details are important and of interest to me. If there isn't any information available, that's fine. But if there is, or becomes available in time, please include it. It is topical while he is a fugitive. Later, maybe not so much, I'll concede.

Thank you for considering my requests. I would be happy to insert that info box, if you want me to. --FeralOink (talk) 07:41, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

• First issue – Timeline: not so hot on that idea. He hasn't been to many places and so it seems unwarranted to dwell on such recentist and "newsy" information.

  Second issue – Liverpool Uni: We've only written about what the news outlets have said about his education history. We're not allowed to comment or speculate on stuff that hasn't been reported. Nowhere does it say or imply he obtained a Bachelors or Masters degree. The only distinction I would perhaps examine is whether he simply enrolled or whether he did submit some work for assessment, but considering his background checkers missed out on a whole lot more, it's kinda trivial in the whole scheme of things.

  Third issue – girlfriend: It may be "interesting" information, but this is the sort of unencyclopaedic gossip that I feel has no place in a WP biography. She wiped her entire online profile, so it's safe to assume that she would not want further attention on her. Her whereabouts would be a coatrack of no relevance to the storyline. -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 07:55, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

If his girlfriend, Lindsay Mills (thank you, Matthew for the name correction!) has wiped her entire online profile, that changes things considerably. I didn't realize that, and I will trust your word on that, Ohconfucius. While you may consider it "unencyclopaedic gossip", there is far worse than that in other Misplaced Pages articles! But that is no justification for THIS Misplaced Pages article to cause shame or embarrassment. The young woman has gone to great effort to separate herself from her online persona, and is not relevant to this emotionally and politically charged event. Agreed, she should not be exposed further through Misplaced Pages, not unless there is information to the contrary, at some time in the future. Thank you. --FeralOink (talk) 22:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• • According to user 76... a few sections above, he was heard from as recently as the 6th, and the TV news programs I've seen continue to say that he's at the Russian airport. As to the abandoned girlfriend, she was discussed on muckraking TV shows like Inside Edition for a couple of days after he fled to Hong Kong, and nothing since then, so the subject doesn't warrant more than a single sentence, or maybe just part of a sentence. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm sure his departure from Moscow airport is not something that can take place in a clandestine manner, nor will it be an event that Russia will want to hide. -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 14:28, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
    • However, it would not be surprising if it's not announced until after he arrives safely at wherever he eventually goes. Also, with the media having been burned by false rumors, they might exercise some caution, which might aid his next step. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:37, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Very true, Baseball Bugs, about the media being burned, repeatedly, on this. In today's news radio, I heard that he had officially applied for asylum in Russia. His status remains uncertain. At whatever point in time that this is resolved, I would continue to recommend an infobox, as it is confusing. Thank you to all for your responses! --FeralOink (talk) 22:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• • • • her name is Lindsay Mills, not Lindsey Wells, if I'm not wrong Matthew 13:02, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Moscow-Cuba plane detour sparks speculation Snowden may be on board

An Aeroflot plane en route from Moscow to Havana has deviated from its course, FlightAware live flight tracking indicates. http://rt.com/news/snowden-plane-route-cuba-965/ Blade-of-the-South (talk) 22:40, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

I would check that out except the NSA is probably monitoring it. Or worse yet, an internet carpet-bomber. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:21, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Several other trans-Atlantic flights have taken a different route today because of turbulence over Greenland. Jonathunder (talk) 23:29, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Maybe he'll fool everybody and sail to Venezuela on a raft, Kon-Tiki style. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:32, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

and maybe he'll end up on an island talking to a volleyball. One could speculate all day, but not here, please. Jonathunder (talk) 00:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

So he is allegedly not on board. But did anything check the cargo hold? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:16, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Snowden was not aboard. --71.20.55.6 (talk) 00:06, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

71.20.55.6. Get an account, sign in, back up statements with references otherwise its POV, and a waste of space. You're becoming tiresome Blade-of-the-South (talk) 00:09, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Check the article YOU posted again. It's been updated.

"Once again, #Snowden was not on board of the AFL150 flight - confirmed by the pilot.::— RT_Cuba (@RT_Cuba) July 11, 2013 "

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 00:13, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I never said he was on board, I merely provided a link that showed what is reported. It is clearly a ruse, a distraction tactic which may mean he is about to use another tactic in this high stakes game. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 01:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

He (or whoever is starting these rumors) might just be enjoying the media running around like ants every time. Didn't Assange say something was going to happen Wednesday? So one might suspect he has already stealthily headed on to his next port of call, to be announced after he gets there - as has become his tradition. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:14, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Possibly, but think on it. If your going to have to cross the Atlantic in a plane with rabid NSA types baying for your head who have an air force to employ as you near Cuba or wherever, wouldn't you test out how they might respond by buying a ticket, not boarding and watching? Certainly. BTW the flight deviation fits in with Russian complicity. Im sure there is more going on that will come out Blade-of-the-South (talk) 07:16, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

As Johnathunder pointed out, a number of flights across the Atlantic were diverted due to air turbulence. This is starting to look like conspiracy-theory stuff. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:18, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

As I predicted this is expanding. “Edward Snowden wishes to express his thoughts on the US campaign for his capture that has put other passengers heading to Latin America at risk as a result,” the source told Interfax" http://rt.com/news/snowden-meet-human-rights-000/ Blade-of-the-South (talk) 08:51, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

It is he himself that has put them at risk, as he is a fugitive from justice. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:18, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

See WP:NOTFORUM. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:59, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm raising fair points, so I assume you are talking to the so-called "fanboy" editors here. He's accused of taking government property. There is no arguing around that. Unless he actually did not take those computers and stuff? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 15:14, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Today's news indicates he's still in Russia and is asking for temporary asylum there. Whether Russia has revised its official stance that he has to keep silent, it doesn't say. The article also contains the first known photo of Snowden taken since he left the US. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 15:15, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

That was three days ago, and unless something has happened in the last hour (since I heard the radio news report), he has still not formally asked Russia for asylum. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 17:02, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Snowden's statement to human rights activists.

It speaks to his politics and motivation. Of note: "I believe in the principle declared at Nuremberg in 1945: 'Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience. Therefore individual citizens have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring.'"

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 18:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Certainly his comments today are a lot more relevant to this article than all the recent tabloid-level guesswork. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:28, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

He speaks well here at that meeting, open and plain about securing asylum in Russia until secure passage to Latin america is arranged. http://rt.com/news/snowden-meets-rights-activists-013/ Blade-of-the-South (talk) 22:10, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

There are at least three unique videos present covering that meeting. His speech matches very close to the Wikileaks statement already referenced. Apparently he had requested no pictures or video. I've found no video from the q/a portion of the meeting, so far.

http://www.modbee.com/2013/07/12/2803900/amnesty-official-in-russia-plans.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zybdTqgz9Z8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwInSdrji2o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqRSXm9GEIY

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 22:30, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

CBS Evening News was just saying that, as per a Russian government official who attended that meeting, until otherwise notified, Russia's stance is the same as it was last week: That he won't get asylum in Russia unless he shuts up. We'll see. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

From top link. “I ask for your assistance in requesting guarantees of safe passage from the relevant nations in securing my travel to Latin America, as well as requesting asylum in Russia until such time as these states accede to law and my legal travel is permitted,” he told the meeting, attended by some 13 representatives of rights organizations. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 00:19, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Full Audio from the meeting. (42 minutes)

https://soundcloud.com/frank-forrester-1/full-edward-snowdens-statement

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 17:18, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

"Humans rights organizations" section typos/grammar

The paragraph beginning with "Widney Brown, Senior Director.." needs editing for readability. "Snowden seems to be charged.." Could say: "He states that Snowden seems to be charged.." perhaps? Or is this supposed to be WP saying that Snowden seems to be charged..? The phrase "Amnesty fair that there is a serious risk" is particularly confusing."Amnesty criticize the US attempts" may have grammar/tense issues. Again, is the whole paragraph a quote, or a synopsis of one person's position, or an organization's position, or WP's statement?

A claim Snowden has released all data now

And thus wont release more, clearing the way for Russian asylum.In last video on this link, entitled 'Watch RT's special coverage of the event' at 7.50 plus. http://rt.com/news/snowden-meets-rights-activists-013/

Blade-of-the-South (talk) 03:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Clarification. Snowden has given out all data. Journalists still have data to release. Asylum for Snowden won't stop Greenwald from publishing more leaks. http://rt.com/news/asylum-nsa-leaks-greenwald-037/ Blade-of-the-South (talk) 05:00, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Given that, Russia could still refuse to grant asylum. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 17:56, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Claim. Greenwald: Snowden has enough information to cause US govt ‘worst damage in history’ :::http://rt.com/news/snowden-us-nightmare-greenwald-064/

Blade-of-the-South (talk) 01:46, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Russia has yet to receive an actual request for asylum (as per a news broadcast I heard an hour ago). ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:55, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Broadcast

Extracts from Snowden’s statement have been broadcasted on main Russian TV channels for millions people. http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/630318/ --Psychiatrick (talk) 04:24, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Evo Morales plane FAB001 departed from Moscow Vnukovo

It should be noted that the plane with Evo Morales departed from Moscow Vnukovo Airport, while Edward Snowden was in Moscow Sheremetyewo Airport; s. http://www.opednews.com/articles/U-S-Bully-Tactics-Behind-by-Dave-Lefcourt-130703-421.html and http://m.ria.ru/moscow/20130703/947379545.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.147.244.83 (talk) 16:40, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Media contradictions

Today's (online) London Times story, "Trapped Snowden accepts Putin’s offer of asylum," claims on the basis of Friday's airport news conference that he's opted for (gag order-conditioned) Russian asylum, but other reports quote officials as saying Russia "has not received an asylum bid" from him (BBC) and indeed "had had no contact with him" (NYT). Meanwhile, Reuters quotes La Nación (Rio) quoting Guardian writer Glenn Greenwald regarding a supposed "dead man's switch" whereby even weightier disclosures would automatically be made if Snowden were eliminated — a sort of classified-information Doomsday Machine. Ganz merkwürdig, as Dr. Strangelove might say.

Sca (talk) 21:05, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

What you're describing sounds like blackmail. Regardless, does the Times really know anything, or are they just trying to connect dots? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:36, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I'd prefer to wait before including any of this in the main article. Give the Bureaucracies some time to catch up and process requests. --71.20.55.6 (talk) 23:57, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes. And posturing, on the part of all involved parties. Nothing has actually happened yet, as far as we know. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:55, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I found a good article via The Wall Street Journal (12 July 2013, updated 16 July 2013). WSJ journalists were actually present at the Moscow press conference. They got direct quotes from Russian officials, for example:

'Mr. Snowden didn't elaborate on where he was living at the airport and declined requests for pictures, citing safety concerns, but said he felt safe and comfortable. "I asked him how he likes Russia, and he said, 'It's safe here,' " Vyacheslav Nikonov, a senior member of Russia's Parliament, said. Mr. Snowden was "well-coiffed," Mr. Nikonov said, adding that he seemed upbeat, though thin and pale. On state television late last month, Mr. Nikonov, who is a grandson of the Stalin-era foreign minister Vyacheslav Molotov, told viewers it would be a double standard to expel Mr. Snowden. "There's never been a single case where people who betrayed Russia were handed over by the United States or any other Western country," he said.'

For as long as WSJ doesn't have a pay wall for the good content (which I worry about, as I'm not a subscriber, wish I could be), and covers Snowden news, I belive that they are good third or second party source. --FeralOink (talk) 08:16, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

If Snowden dies its the USA's Worst Nightmare

“The US government should be on its knees every day begging that nothing happen to Snowden, because if something does happen to him, all the information will be revealed and it could be its worst nightmare. Snowden has enough information to cause more damage to the US government in a minute alone than anyone else has ever had in the history of the United States,” Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian journalist responsible for publishing some of Snowden’s first leaks, told Argentina-based newspaper La Nación.

http://rt.com/news/snowden-us-nightmare-greenwald-064/Blade-of-the-South (talk) 22:53, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

<redacted per BLP>

http://rt.com/news/snowden-us-nightmare-greenwald-064/Blade-of-the-South (talk) 22:53, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

More from Greenwald about the dead man's switch. Some points:

• Greenwald has no access to his iBomb
• Snowden doesn't believe his murder is the most likely scenario but is planning for the contingency
• The Dead Man's switch is only activated upon Snowden's untimely death, and that he doesn't plan harm under any other circumstance
• This article links to a summary of revelations (update II). These should be checked, for inclusion in the Mass Surveilance scandal article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/13/reuters-article-dead-man-s-switch

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 23:40, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

The perfect opportunity for someone who hates the US to murder this guy and try to make it look like the US did it. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:42, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Thos Drake is Speaking About the Snowden Files.

These should be sources for the related articles on PRISM, Fairview, Blarney and Upstream.

• "BLARNEY is to the international Internet space as PRISM is to the domestic."
• “Upstream means you get inside the system before it’s in the Internet. In its pure form,”
• Fairview: “It’s just a name, that at the highest level means to own the Internet.”
• Fairview involves tapping international fiber-optic cables, to access the data. And that it may involve an agreement with telecom companies such as Global Crossing. (reference the Brazilian spying scandal)

http://www.dailydot.com/news/fairview-prism-blarney-nsa-internet-spying-projects/

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 00:32, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Removed accusations

Misplaced Pages is not a forum, and talk pages should be used to discuss article improvement, not make assertions that the article subject is guilty of a crime. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:09, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

It is a forum, sometimes. One should never condone censorship, in any medium — particularly a global one. IMHO. Sca (talk) 01:41, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I should have said, sometimes a WP talk page can function as a forum on an unclear or complex issue.

But I agree it's not a place for speculation about alleged criminality, and certainly not for character assassination. Sca (talk) 13:36, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

It cuts both ways. There seem to be no qualms about assertions that the US is committing crimes, despite no court of law having made such a determiation. And as the article subject is a champion of transparency and opennness, I'm sure he would welcome these discussions here. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:45, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Nothing mentioned in this forum here on the talk page to discuss the article and developments is inappropriate to date IMHO Blade-of-the-South (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Asserting that the article subject is guilty of "treason and blackmail", as was done on this page, is completely prohibited, per WP:BLPCRIME among an infinite number of other policies. This page isn't the place to discuss what we think of the subject. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 02:12, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Any assertion that the US government is guilty of any crime is likewise prohibited. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:00, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

"Snowden has enough information to cause US govt ‘worst damage in history’" as mentioned in a section above. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:06, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

There has been nothing like Snowdens whistleblowing. It will take top level lawyers a long time to decide the issues. This is a living mobile situation. Certainly USA administrators are being challenged and lawsuits have begun. What is clear is that peoples perceptions on guilt and culpability are moving favourably toward Snowden concurently as credibility falls for agencies like the NSA and those who enable them. Why? People dont like having their privacy invaded. Who does? The law is likely to uphold this right. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 04:16, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

The law was passed in 2006, and what it will come down to is unreasonable search and seizure. The courts will have to decide that issue. And are you just fine with the rampant theft of personal information by private companies who are not accountable to anyone? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:52, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Please keep WP:BLP and WP:TPO in mind. Snowden is a living person (as far as we know). "The US government" is not. Sorry Bugs. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 05:29, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, Dr. MeatMan, the US government is us, the citizens, and if someone tries to destroy the US government they are trying to destroy us, just as surely as al-Qaeda would like to. And Blade's comment about "don't like having their privacy invaded" is highly debatable. With the growth of social media, any number of commentators have been saying that "privacy is obsolete". So the anti-American rhetoric needs to stop here, and the hero-worship needs to stop. P.S. He is also accused of stealing government property. Supposedly he took one or more government PC's with him. If true, he had no right to do that, and does not occupy any moral high ground. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:48, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

To be blunt, I really don't give a flip about the views of you or any other editor here, so can you please turn down the vitriol? Stick to what you perceive as bias in the article itself. And, per WP:TPO, talk page deletions of WP:BLP violations are allowed but deletions of "anti-American rhetoric" and "hero-worship" generally are not. If you start deleting such language merely because you find it objectionable (the threat of which might be inferred from your above comments) then that is clearly disruptive behavior that will not be viewed favorably by admins. That's on top of your wearying, near-constant violations of WP:NOTFORUM. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 09:22, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Correct. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 09:26, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I generally like a little friendly off-topic discussion on the talk page but I am in full agreement with DrFleischman re Bugs. Gandydancer (talk) 11:08, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I too generally like a little friendly off-topic discussion, but there has been some rather uncivil, patronising and sanctimonious claptrap which should cease henceforth. -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 14:52, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

If you agree that it's just fine to threaten to severely damage a nation, I don't know what to tell you. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:49, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Side note, not sure which section it belongs in: Russia has yet to receive an actual request for asylum (as per a news broadcast I heard n hour ago). So nothing has happened yet, as far as we know. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:53, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

CNN reports that Putin thinks Snowden is reconsidering the conditions Russia had set for asylum. By inference, the ball is in Snowden's court, to decided whether to request asylum in Russia, which he clearly has not done yet. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:23, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Edward Snowden polls

These polls account for gender, age, and race:

• Mali, Meghashyam. "Poll: Majority say Snowden a whistle-blower, not a traitor." The Hill. July 10, 2013.
• Muller, Sarah. "Poll: Americans say Snowden isn’t a traitor." MSNBC. July 10, 2013.

WhisperToMe (talk) 08:02, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

As has been discussed before, polls don't belong in the article. Polls are notoriously fleeting, if not inaccurate. Google and it seems a majority thought he was guilty. Guess what: He walked. And the only "poll" that will ultimately matter in the NSA cases is what 9 guys on the Supreme Court think. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 08:13, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Bugs, only you stated polls dont belong in the article in an above discussion. There was no straw poll. In fact Bugs your roll here seems to be one of limiting the content of the article so it is not neutral POV. Why? That is the question. Do you have motive or bias? The Snowden friendly polls are certainly an important factor, whether you believe so or not. Yes thy are. Its called democracy. That in a nutshell it what all this is about after all. The lack of it in fact. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 09:38, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

My role here, if any, is to try to keep the article neutral by minimizing the hero-worship factor. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:47, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Agree with Blade, poll results belong in this article as long as (a) they're reported by reliable secondary sources (such as The Hill or MSNBC) or (b) the polls are performed by reputable pollsters (such as Quinnipiac, which happens to be one of the most well-respected pollsters in the country). Special care must be taken so as not to overstate the results. By the way, the "two" polls referenced by WhisperToMe are actually two stories about the same single poll. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 09:52, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Comments about the Zimmerman poll/trial have nothing to do with this article. I agree that reputable polls are appropriate here. Gandydancer (talk) 11:14, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

• There cannot be any blanket "polls are good" nor "polls are bad". They are but a snapshot of a sample taken at a given time, The true test must be whether the given polls were notable, per reliable sources. Of course they can be wrong, but that is rather besides the point. -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 14:45, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

These two articles are the same poll. That said, we are writing for the long term, and while they reflect perception, they don't necessarily reflect the actual facts of the case.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/search-releases/search-results/release-detail?ReleaseID=1919&What=&strArea=;&strTime=3

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 16:51, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

You're right. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:46, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Bugs, Its good you conceded you were wrong before by saying this above 'As has been discussed before, polls don't belong in the article.' Your new considered stance in line with majority views is indeed non POV. The consensus being summed up best by User talk:Ohconfucius, if Im not mistaken, being, 'There cannot be any blanket "polls are good" nor "polls are bad". They are but a snapshot of a sample taken at a given time, The true test must be whether the given polls were notable, per reliable sources'. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 22:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

You lost me at the bakery. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 12:58, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Hacking the Emails of Bolivian Officials

Snowden seems NOT to be the source of this information. But it still seems to be fallout from the case. Bolivian president Morales states that he learned at the Mercosur summit that the US has hacked into the emails of high Bolivian officials, and that he (Morales) has shut down his own account as a result.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/13/morales-says-us-hacked-bolivian-leaders-emails/ --71.20.55.6 (talk) 17:01, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

• No, it's unrelated and irrelevant and doesn't warrant any mention in the article. It's not that national leaders personally need email accounts anyway. Is he going to stop using the phone, because that's probably bugged too? ... -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 23:45, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Camera Shy

“The More Photographed I Am…the More Dangerous my Situation” -

http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2013/07/more-photographed-more-dangerous/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 17:13, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Transparency only goes one way? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:45, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I think it was stated somewhere that if he was photographed too much, if he tried to sneak out by disguising his appearance, it would be easier to identify him anyway. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:27, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Snowden Has Received a Formal Nomination for the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize

Excerpt from Letter written by Stefan Svallfors, Professor of Sociology at Umeå University

Through his personal efforts, he has also shown that individuals can stand up for fundamental rights and freedoms. This example is important because since the Nuremberg trials in 1945 has been clear that the slogan "I was just following orders" is never claimed as an excuse for acts contrary to human rights and freedoms. Despite this, it is very rare that individual citizens having the insight of their personal responsibility and courage Edward Snowden shown in his revelation of the American surveillance program. For this reason, he is a highly affordable candidate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2363191/Edward-Snowden-nominated-Nobel-Peace-Prize-Swedish-Professor.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 20:28, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, countless people can nominate someone for a nobel peace prize, and therefore, countless people are nominated every year. So a nomination alone isn't noteworthy at all. --Conti|✉ 22:34, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

• As I have argued elsewhere here on WP, nomination criteria for the NPP are notoriously loose, that even one person holding an academic chair is enough to nominate. Thus, this non-discrimination nature renders the nomination near-worthless. -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 23:30, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
• I'd agree that the nomination itself is of debatable notability, but might be worth a line in the article. If he wins, obviously, that's another matter. Jusdafax 23:47, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

• Isn't the list of names being given serious consideration each year supposed to be confidential? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:44, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Here's some interesting commentary by a writer who is sympathetic to Snowden but is also practical: ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 17:14, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this isn't really that notable. Maybe add this to the bio of the person who nominated him.--Malerooster (talk) 13:28, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Has anything changed with this? --Malerooster (talk) 15:27, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• A Swedish sociology professor nominated. Not. If one or more of the Michal Gorbachevs or Desmond Tutus of this world had made that nomination, then maybe it would be worth a mention. -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 15:46, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

"Snowden met with representatives of human rights organizations"

With regard to this claim appearing in Misplaced Pages without qualification, Der Spiegel has criticized a headline that is almost identical as "misleading": "Snowden Meets with Human Rights Advocates at Moscow Airport" -- made it sound as if the former intelligence contractor for America's National Security Agency (NSA) and current crusader against Internet surveillance had formed an alliance with Kremlin opponents. But, in reality, they were only meant to serve as props aimed at concealing the Kremlin's involvement.... Nikonov would have never crossed Snowden's mind without the prompting of Russian officials." See also this comment by Masha Gessen posted to nytimes.com: "Factual accuracy was another casualty of the media frenzy. All the reports I saw, in both Russian and English, stated that the fugitive intelligence contractor Edward Snowden had met with human rights activists and a Russian M.P. In fact, representatives of bona fide human rights organizations such as Human Rights Watch were far outnumbered by representatives of Kremlin-affiliated agencies that exist to wage propaganda attacks — including attacks on actual human rights groups." Finally, a Russia-based writer for the New Yorker also noted that "the panel at Sheremetyevo included pro-Kremlin figures in the guise of civic activists. Such figures and organizations are common in Russia, and are used to marginalize genuine non-government watchdogs or to side with the Kremlin against its enemies." Bottom line is that this was a staged event that involved the Kremlin.--Brian Dell (talk) 11:54, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Surprise, surprise. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 12:57, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

The media has started to acknowledge the Kremlin's role to a greater degree. The Washington Post quotes a human rights advocate as saying that re July 12 meeting "she went reluctantly and that the whole episode appeared to be stage-managed.... After the Friday meeting, a parade of Russian politicians urged the government to grant the asylum request, in what appeared to be a Kremlin-scripted attempt to make such a move inevitable."--Brian Dell (talk) 02:28, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Imagine that. Today the news is saying Snowden could be freed from the airport in a few days. Supposedly he has promised to reveal no more info. But what if Greenwald releases info that Snowden had given him but was not publicly known yet? Then the pressure might run the other direction: Russia could threaten to jail Snowden unless Greenwald keeps a lid on it. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:46, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

For an indication of how modern Russia honors "human rights", check out Pussy Riot and Alexei Navalny. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Russia update?

"Fugitive US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden has applied for temporary asylum in Russia, officials say."

"The Federal Migration Service confirmed he had completed the relevant paperwork at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, where he has been for the past three weeks."

— http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23328074

Sca (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

From the information in that article, it appears that fact should be in the article, that he has now formally applied for asylum in Russia, and that they might grant it or they might give him refugee status instead. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:35, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

"Edward Snowden today has filed for a temporary protection visa with Russia's ministry of immigration. #snowen #nsa #prism"

Unclear whether this is a separate deal from temporary asylum.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 17:51, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

I think three sources is sufficient to update, with attribution. First mention of the asylum filing should go after the sentence On June 14, 2013, U.S. federal prosecutors charged Snowden with espionage and theft of government property, and before the "Contents" box, with some — but not too much — detail farther down. It would be good to quote lawyer Anatoly Kucherena telling Interfax that Snowden says he "will observe" Putin's gag order-condition for asylum.

I leave it to those more computer-savvy to do the work. Sca (talk) 18:05, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

This CNN editorial should be required reading for anyone who thinks Russia and China are somehow better places for political dissenters to be than in the USA. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:12, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Key public figures: Dick Cheney and Jimmy Carter

The Public reaction has too much polling information and too much from political commentators and is missing key public figures positions.

Dick Cheney calling Snowden "a traitor" should be placed back in this article under the Public reaction section. His statement is notable, was properly referenced and was inappropriately removed from this article:

Former US Vice President Dick Cheney called Snowden "a traitor".

The above reference also includes Snowden's response.

Also, Jimmy Carter's position should be under the Public reaction section, not under the Congress reaction section:

Former US President Jimmy Carter said: "He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible, but I think the invasion of human rights and American privacy has gone too far ... I think that the secrecy that has been surrounding this invasion of privacy has been excessive, so I think that the bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial."

The Public reaction section should include key public figures positions such as Dick Cheney and Jimmy Carter, both of which are notable.

References

1. Bendery, Jennifer (June 17, 2013), Edward Snowden: Dick Cheney Calling Me A Traitor Is The 'Highest Honor' For An American, Huffington Post, retrieved June 24, 2013
2. Watkins, Tom (June 30, 2013). "Father proposes deal for Snowden's voluntary return", CNN

Since Cheney was highly involved in the post-9/11 situation, his view is important; and the view of any former president carries a lot of weight. Carter's comment, in fact, is well-measured. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:33, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

No, Cheney and Carter will be perceived as too biased by dint of past office to be in the Public reaction section. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 01:24, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Where are you seeing bias in Carter's statement? And show me a quote in the article that's not biased. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Per WP:RS, reliable sources are not required to be neutral. Biased or opinionated sources are perfectly acceptable as long as they're attributed. In this case, Cheney and Carter's comments are absolutely, absolutely notable and should be reinserted forthwith. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 04:17, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

No no put em in sure, but in the public section? Blade-of-the-South (talk) 07:58, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I see. Personally I'm not set on this but I think all retired officials (including members of Congress) should be in the Executive branch / Congress sections. It seems to make more sense as their views have presumably been shaped by their time in office. To lump Cheney in with the public seems especially weird. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 08:08, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

You sum up my views exactly Blade-of-the-South (talk) 23:11, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

The only responses included in the sections for branches of the US government should be those that have been made by currently-serving members of the government. Individuals who are no longer serving in office do not speak for the government, cannot act on behalf of the government, cannot directly shape government policy, and in many cases may not have access to critical relevant information that active officers of the government have access to. In many cases, individuals who are no longer serving in government may also be subject to various conflicts of interest (which may or may not be hidden from the public) that are at odds with the interests of the government. Dezastru (talk) 21:22, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Another from Carter reported in Der Spiegel "America has no functioning democracy at this time." I'm leery of this quote, however, since I've not been able to find a recording, or an independent source. All others are simply quoting Spiegel. http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/nsa-affaere-jimmy-carter-kritisiert-usa-a-911589.html

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 04:08, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

twitter @GP Schmitz is to be followed; however, the article refers to the "Atlantic Bridge" meeting in Atlanta on Tuesday, July 16, 2013, as where Carter made that quote.

Other articles include the same quote from Der Spiegel signed by twitter @GP Schmitz

References

1. msn NOW (July 18, 2013), Jimmy Carter says NSA leaks show US has no functioning democracy, msn, retrieved July 18, 2013
2. rt.com (July 18, 2013), ‘America has no functioning democracy’ – Jimmy Carter on NSA, RT.com, retrieved July 18, 2013

An ex-Senator Breaks ranks

And is actively supporting and corresponding with Snowden. He has also begun to lobby his colleagues.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-senator-praises-snowden-email-19683450#.UeXrDG0pgmg

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/16/gordon-humphrey-email-edward-snowden

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 01:03, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

More lawsuits against the NSA

From gun groups, religious organizations, and drug legalization advocates.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/nsa-faces-new-threat-religious-gun-and-pot-groups/67232/

Yahoo! granted the right for declassification proceedings.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-usa-prism-yahoo-court-idUSBRE96F1A120130716

From Microsoft. A motion similar to Yahoo!'s.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-rt-us-usa-security-microsoft-20130716,0,6106528.story

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 02:28, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Obama administration drowning in lawsuits filed over NSA surveillance.

http://rt.com/usa/snowden-leaks-surveillance-suits-174/

Blade-of-the-South (talk) 07:56, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

By the time the Supreme Court hears these cases, we'll probably be in the next presidency. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:43, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Microsoft's was filed in the FISC, they move quick, as they already ruled on Yahoo! --71.20.55.6 (talk) 18:13, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Rand Paul Recruits for Class Action LAWSUIT against the NSA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFSgDPmsoMo.

Lots of class actions now. Here's one for $20 billion. http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/nsa-slapped-with-20-billion-class-action-suit/

Blade-of-the-South (talk) 23:16, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Three observations for Blade-of-the-South: First, WND is World News Daily, and as Bugs Bunny trenchantly observed, unleashes a fire-storm of spam pop-up's from adshuffle and engine.4dsply, which left me feeling non-plussed and would be best not to have actual readers of WP articles be subject to. Second, that WND class action suit for $20 billion had a post date of 15 June 2013, and is iff-y. Finally, WND also has posts such as New Law Allows Obama to Take Over All Media (that is recent, 19 July), which isn't especially plausible. Please don't think I'm being intentionally obnoxious or critical of you, Blade-of-the-South, as you seem sincere and helpful. --FeralOink (talk) 08:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

A whole slew of spam popups on that last site. I note that at least some of these suits are not about the NSA's activity directly, but rather about the secrecy of the court that approved it. Rand Paul, of course, is beginning a presidential campaign. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 15:33, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

That makes it all the more notable. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 17:36, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 22:00, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Rand Paul is on a very short list of true libertarians in the GOP. If he does run in 2016, things could get interesting, to say the least. The question those suits seek to have answered are what was the decision process of the courts that led them to believe these activities are constitutional, along with whether the Patriot Act's authority was exceeded, and ultimately whether the Patriot Act is constitutional. That will take a while. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:13, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

FeralOink It was spammy wasnt it. A sloppy business model. Of course its not WP. Its a pointer, this is the talk page. Heres an even bigger suit, this time its clean in the washington post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/06/13/former-justice-prosecutor-seeks-23-billion-in-damages-for-nsa-surveillance-programs/

This looks damaging to the NSA also http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/17/nsa-court-challenges-tech-firms Blade-of-the-South (talk) 09:58, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

The Post story is more than a month old. Is there any update? Where did they get that dollar amount from? Can they prove tangible damages? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 09:59, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

The Guardian story is from Wednesday. Today it was announced that the federal government had gotten a renewal from the secret court. Looks like it will continue until or if the high court stops it and/or Congress amends the Patriot Act. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 10:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Editorial in the SCMP

• Chowdhury, Debasish Roy. "China missed chance for asylum payback by spurning Edward Snowden." (Print title: "Payback chance missed in Snowden exit") South China Morning Post. Wednesday 17 July 2013.

In 2012 the US granted 9,541 Chinese asylum

It states: "According to the Asylum Trends 2012 report, the US was the world's biggest provider and the Chinese were among the top five seekers of asylum - right up there with the Afghans, Syrians, Serbians and the Pakistanis. At some point China will have to ponder the incongruity of its rising global status and the number of asylum seekers it sends and receives (zero, it doesn't entertain any) and how this mismatch reflects on the country's image." WhisperToMe (talk) 18:56, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

THREE degrees of separation now.

Friends of friends, of friends.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/nsa-admits-it-analyzes-more-peoples-data-previously-revealed/67287/

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 21:47, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

An article explaining the mathematics, and how three hops can mean millions of people.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/you-may-already-be-a-winner-in-nsas-three-degrees-surveillance-sweepstakes/

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 03:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

House Judiciary committee meeting

The exchange with Cohen is worth studying for information about logistics. One thing I picked up on, that generally seems to have been missed is sworn testimony concerning Snowden's social networks as a potential means to gain information, if not necessarily access. One other item to note: according to the testimony of Inglis to Cohen, that Snowden had a rarefied set of permissions. That the means by which his documents left the control of the NSA's facilities still isn't precisely understood.

Cohen ..... Now let me ask you this, sir: Mr Snowden, what security status did he have? He could see anything there that he wanted to? Was he limited in what he had access to?

Cole: Let me put that over to Mr Inglis.

Cohen: Sure

Inglis: Mr Snowden had a top secret special compartmented intelligence clearance, that's a standard for someone in the US intelligence community. Given access to top-secret information. He as a system administrator had additional privileges that he could set the permissions on various devices within the information systems, who could access things and how you could move data round.

Cohen: Generally how many people -- how many people generally are in the same level as he was, to access this information? Inglis: Across the population -- and again in this forum I'll be general in my description, but across the population numbering in tens of thousands you would expect hundreds of people with with -- that have those sorts of extraordinary permissions -- in a System administrator position ----

Cohen: so tens of thousands of people could have done what Snowden did?

Inglis: No sir, I'd say that perhaps hundreds. And could I make a further distinction between his privileges in terms of what he could control? Like any organization, NSA has a side of its information architecture that is intended to make information available to people so that they might discover capabilities, they might find each other, they might pass email to each other. It's intended to be a free exchange of information. But then there's a production side, that's much more rigorously controlled, and there's a need to know rule -- philosophy on that side. Now Mr. Snowden took ruthless advantage of the former and did not have access to the latter, except in some limited circumstances, in the training he undertook. In the last few months of his ----

...

Cohen: And how did Mr Snowden take his information with him? He's got certain information in Moscow with him now. Did he -- how did he do that?

Inglis: Sir, we don't actually know precisely how he took the information and it's a matter of investigation and in due course we will know, and we would be happy to provide ----

Cohen: But he would probably taken it on some type of a disk? or some type of a little -- with him? -- at at

Inglis: I just a...

Cohen: ...from a secure facility I presume

Inglis: ...just be speculating, but that's possible

(Abridged Transcript and emphasis mine, any errors in the transcript are mine)

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/event/221726

Time index 1:52:00 --71.20.55.6 (talk) 10:15, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Very interesting. I'll bet the press will be picking up on this shortly as they review the transcript in detail. There's also the "2 or 3 jumps" language that people are blogging and tweeting about. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 17:35, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Caught that, but I haven't found a media source that really illustrates the problem as graphically as it really should be. Incidentally 3 hops allows those 300 phone queries to obtain nearly everybody in the US. if you pick 300 random people, a three hop query can easily return a million unique individuals per person, multiply those out, you can get 300 million presuming no overlap. If you pick 300 terrorists, you might have a higher degree of overlap than choosing random people, nonetheless, those queries can return an astonishing number of phone records on totally innocent individuals. The Oracle of Bacon is one example of a social graph. Below is an example on how many people a three-hop query could return on Osama Bin Ladin using the Oracle of Bacon (which is only querying the IMDB (movie/film database, and yes OBL really is in the IMDB). But if you listen to Bill Binney, he describes how these can be overlaid to form three dimensional social graphs.

Osama bin 
Laden      Number 
Number   of People
0 	1
1 	55
2 	5429
3 	536114
4 	1659852
5 	304412
6 	21074
7 	1995
8 	265
9 	23
10 	7
Total number of linkable actors: 2529227
Weighted total of linkable actors: 9923529
Average Osama bin Laden number: 3.924 

http://oracleofbacon.org/onecenter.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ5ilIMeRlQ

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 19:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

PS. For fun, and illustration, you can Connect OBL and Kevin Bacon in 3 hops. Osama bin Laden (Knowledge is for Acting Upon: The Manhattan Raid (2006)) -> Rahimullah Yusufzai ("Frontline" (1983) {Return of the Taliban (#24.9)) -> Will Lyman (Mystic River (2003)) -> Kevin Bacon

http://oracleofbacon.org/movielinks.php?a=Kevin+Bacon&b=Osama+bin+Laden&use_using=1&u0=on&u1=on&use_genres=1&g0=on&g4=on&g8=on&g12=on&g16=on&g20=on&g24=on&g1=on&g5=on&g9=on&g13=on&g17=on&g21=on&g25=on&g2=on&g6=on&g10=on&g14=on&g18=on&g22=on&g26=on&g3=on&g7=on&g11=on&g15=on&g19=on&g23=on&g27=on&g28=on

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 19:30, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Fascinating. Blade-of-the-South (talk) 22:08, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Snowden invited to a hearing of the European Parliament in September

The list also includes Bill Binney, Mark Klein, Glenn Greenwald, and many others.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/07/18/european_parliament_wants_snowden_nsa_chief_to_testify_on_u_s_spying.html

http://www.janalbrecht.eu/themen/datenschutz-und-netzpolitik/vorgeschlagene-zeugen-fuer-die-nsa-untersuchung-im-innenausschuss.html

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 03:00, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Michael Hayden, ex-NSA chief, ex-CIA chief, is against Snowden

The title of the article doesn't say it but Hayden is also an ex-NSA chief.

• Hayden, Michael. "Ex-CIA chief: What Edward Snowden did." CNN. Friday July 19, 2013.

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed Legislation

Government Surveillance Transparancy Act, if passed, would allow companies to publish aggregate statistics on FISA orders, and the number of user accounts affected.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/morning_call/2013/07/new-bill-lets-us-companies-talk-about.html

http://larsen.house.gov/sites/larsen.house.gov/files/2013.07.Government%20Surveillance%20Transparency%20Act%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 18:48, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile, the NSA was given yet another extension by that one court. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Private Search Engines

Though not precisely new, these types of engines have gained in popularity. One such engine even publishes PRISM slides on its own website.

Ixquick, for example allows the user to connect to search results by proxy, to mask the user's IP address.

http://www.fortmilltimes.com/2013/07/19/2831763/startpage-and-ixquick-deploy-newest.html

https://ixquick.com/eng/prism-program-revealed.html

--71.20.55.6 (talk) 19:08, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

(Restored: germane. Direct economic impact of PRISM disclosures by Edward Snowden) --71.20.55.6 (talk) 05:40, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

France government reaction

France denied on July 02 2013 the entry in french airspace to a plane because of supposition (transmitted by USA agency to french DCRI) that Edward Snowden was aboard. In reality that was the Falcon Jet of Bolivia's president Evo Morales. On July 4th, Manuel Valls, french minister of interior, said that this issue is complex and france could not legally admit asile to Edward Snowden. According to to french layer Maître Eolas, France can legally accept this kind of case with article 1 of the CRSR (Convention on Refugee status) and OFPRA (french office on refugees). Sources : "Le Canard Enchainé" - 10 Juillet 2013 - Page3 & Page8 - http://wikileaks-press.org/edward-snowden-and-france/ --78.251.14.118 (talk) 08:25, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

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