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“The thing that it's about for me – what it's really about, is just ... really sweet people, er, there are all these really sweet people who are ... they just get online and they are typing and instead of yelling at each other or just having a conversation or reading about gossip or whatever, they're trying to build something that everybody else will find useful. I just think it's really sweet. Really nice people.” — Jimbo Wales

Hi Alex, Here's a copy of my response to you and Littleolive that I just put up on the Deepak Chopra talk page regarding the Large-scale removal of content. I include it here in case you don't take notice of it there.

Dear Olive and Alexbrn,

I just discovered this conversation/response today to my edits back in February. I apologize both for the long space of time as I have been preoccupied with pressing matters, and for my lack of expertise in navigating my way through the wiki avenues of correspondence.

Regarding the removal of Duerr's quote on Chopra's understanding of quantum physics, I can accept that decision if book jacket material cannot be used in wiki articles.

What I was hoping to address was the misperception that physicists don't agree with Chopra's interpretation of quantum field theory, when in fact a number of eminent quantum physicists not only agree, but have been stating these views long before Chopra did. The role of the observer in quantum measurement has been debated by evenly divided groups for nearly a century, it does a disservice to the wiki reader to suggest that Chopra's position(which is also Heisenberg's Wigner and Bohr's) is somehow discreditable because he's not a physicist.

At the time this material was under a topic called Academic Scholars, and I felt that many of the authors referenced there were weak and it needed quotes from who had actually read some Chopra material and spoke to his ideas. Alexbrn removed my quotes quickly after I posted them and I couldn't understand why. I repeatedly reposted because I thought it was mischief-making. When he responded that Duerr's view of quantum physics in agreement with Chopra was a self-promoting puff quote, I felt that was incorrect and unfair, especially given the weak material there already. So to make that point I removed the biased material with brief explanations. The material was instantly put up again. And that's where I left off. Then later I saw Olive's message to me warning me not to unilaterally remove content or be sanctioned.I was urged to seek consensus first,which seems like a good idea, although I notice I have never been asked for clarification or a response before any of my reliably sourced content was removed.

But in the spirit of friendly cooperation I would like to get feedback from you about changing or removing these entries. It's not that they aren't referenced properly, but they lack informative content, they push a point of view instead of give substantive information about Chopra's ideas, actions or material.

1 Reception- In Academic Journals

Reviewing Susan Jacoby's book, The Age of American Unreason, Wendy Kaminer sees Chopra's popular reception in America as being symptomatic of many Americans' historical inability (as Jacoby puts it) "to distinguish between real scientists and those who peddled theories in the guise of science". Chopra's "nonsensical references to quantum physics" are placed in a lineage of American religious pseudoscience, extending back through Scientology to Christian Science.

Kaminer is reviewing Jacoby's book and the implication is that the scholar Jacoby has something to say about Chopra. I read Kaminer's entire review as well as searched Jacoby's book and it's index. Jacoby never mentions Chopra. Here's the actual passage from Jacoby's book.

"Many Americans possessed just enough education to be fascinated by late nineteenth-century advances in both science and technology, but they had too little education to distinguish between real scientists and those who peddled social theories in the guise of science."

Jacoby is speaking of the false science of the social Darwinist of the capitalists of the Gilded Age. Given that Chopra’s name nor the words 'quantum physics' ever appears anywhere in the book, it's disingenuous to quote the book as if she was commenting on Chopra. Kaminer inserts her opinion about Chopra and his "nonsensical references to quantum physics" out of the blue without any foundation from the book, and with no further elaboration.

How is such a characterization not misleading to the casual reader searching for background information on Chopra?

2. Reception- In Academic Journals George O'Har, a professor of English at Boston College, saw Chopra as an exemplification of the fact that human beings need "magic" in their lives, and places "the sophistries of Chopra" alongside the emotivism of Oprah Winfrey, the special effects and logic of Star Trek, and the magic of Harry Potter.

This entry misleads the reader into believing that needing magic is a criticism, when in fact O’Har is pointing out the limitations of a solely technological approach to human existence and suggesting we explore magic more fully to uncover a deeper meaningfulness to our lives. O'Har doesn't put the word magic in quotes. Here are O'Har's last three concluding sentences from his paper:

“We crave meaning and spirit in our lives, and we find them in the oddest places: the sophistries of a Deepak Chopra, the emotivism of an Oprah Winfrey, the special effects and logic of Star Trek and The Matrix. Now it's Harry Potter's turn. And while this is not an altogether good development, certainly it could be worse. One does hold out hope, though, that this disguised search for meaning—and it is precisely that—will someday result in an exploration that takes us beyond what is provided by an alternative world found only in the pages of children's books.

I doubt if most readers would realize from this wiki entry that O'Har is not ridiculing magic and that he's actually encouraging Chopra, Oprah, Star Wars, The Matrix and the Harry Potter books to keep going more deeply into the meaning of life.

If the reason this entry is included is for the phrase “sophistries of Deepak Chopra,” , then one would expect the article to support that in some way. It doesn’t. This opinion about Chopra's presentation is the only mention of Chopra in the entire piece. If this were an unbiased wiki entry, one would then find the identical entry of O'Har under Oprah Winfrey’s wikipage: Reception – in Academic journals. The “emotivism of an Oprah Winfrey” exemplifies our human need for "magic." I fail to see how the wiki reader will understand from this entry that O'Har thinks magic and not technology is the right direction to find meaning. And even if he sees limitations in Chopra's style of teaching, he still includes him in that camp.

3. Reception- In Academic Journals John Gamel (2008) also acknowledges Chopra's business success, thinking him "perhaps the wealthiest" of America's alternative medicine practitioners.

Why state an opinion on Chopra’s wealth without supporting facts? Speculation on his wealth or lack of wealth has no relevance to how his ideas are received. If he was well known but financially unsuccessful, would that merit inclusion under Reception? The rest of the Gamel entry seems fine.

4. Reception- In Academic Journals According to medical anthropologist Hans Baer (2003), Chopra – as a wealthy individual – is an example of the American success story,

Again, what is the connection between wealth and how academia receives Chopra's message?The rest of the Baer reference is fine with me.

5. All of Robert Todd Carroll's references.

Author Todd Carroll said Chopra left the TM organization when it “became too stressful” and was a “hindrance to his success”.

These quotes suggest that Chopra said this somewhere to someone. That is not the case. Here is the actual sentence along with the previous sentence.

Soon he was an international purveyor of herbs and tablets through MAPI. When association with TM itself became too stressful and a hindrance to his success, he left.

Carroll speculated on the reason for Chopra's departure. He gives no source at all.

Another Carroll reference: According to the book Skeptics Dictionary, Chopra's "mind-body claims get even murkier as he tries to connect Ayurveda with quantum physics.”

This is a value statement on Chopra’s writing style, not a substantive critique of ideas. Calling Chopra's writing "murkier" only reflects Carroll's cognitive capacity. It offers the reader only Carroll’s point of view, no useful information.

The third Carroll reference: Chopra acknowledges that his thought has been inspired by Jiddu Krishnamurti and others.

This text no longer exists in the Skeptics Dictionary. There is another reference for the same entry, so it can remain, only the reference number needs to be removed.

Carroll’s work is full of biased and invented positions as well as demonstrably incorrect information. Including his citations is an embarrassment to Misplaced Pages and even to self-respecting skeptics. His lack of credibility is shown where he says. “Chopra has no license to practice medicine in California.” Chopra has always retained his medical license in CA and in MA. Carroll just made that up. Regarding the Sapolsky lawsuit, he claims that Deepak Chopra plagiarized Sapolsky by “lifting large chunks of his work” when in fact it was one stress endocrine chart from a textbook that was mistakenly included in a Chopra book without proper attribution. On his wikiquote page, Robert Todd Carroll says: “ The reader is forewarned that The Skeptics Dictionary does not try to present a balanced account of occult subjects.” Why would editors use this material if the author himself admits to bias, and has no respect for the facts?

That's it. Tell me what you think.Vivekachudamani (talk) 05:22, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

My position has not changed, and I have just reverted a bunch of edits you made to the article backed with inaccurate claims that material is not backed by the source used (I of course checked). Alexbrn 14:30, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

We differ on what a reliable source is, so let's discuss this. Littleolive oil said we need to reach a consensus. That is why I explained my position last week. You both had all that time to make a considered response but you didn't. I assumed if either of you had objections you would raise them. Once I made changes this morning you changed the material back without explaining why only claiming the material is good without showing how.

Regarding your point about checking the source: Did you check this?

Chopra acknowledges that his thought has been inspired by Jiddu Krishnamurti and others.

Please tell me where this exists in the Skeptic's Dictionary?

or the source for this quote:

Author Todd Carroll said Chopra left the TM organization when it “became too stressful” and was a “hindrance to his success”.

How does one determine who said these words from these sentences in his book?

Soon he was an international purveyor of herbs and tablets through MAPI. When association with TM itself became too stressful and a hindrance to his success, he left.

Today I noticed Carroll has removed the sentence. "When association with TM itself became too stressful and a hindrance to his success, he left." A separate search for the word "hinderance" can bring us an alternate version with a dead link to hindunet.org that was not there last week. Previously it didn't even show a source of any kind.

I honestly do not understand why you want to stake your reputation as a fair editor on this material. Please explain, don't just assert.

I feel confident that a review panel of editors will recognize that this material does not meet wikipedia standards. Vivekachudamani (talk) 16:45, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

I have posted on the article Talk page; please continue the discussion there as consensus needs to be achieved between all the editors of the article, not just the few of us discussing this on User Talk pages. Alexbrn 17:32, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Quackwatch

Do not undo the revision I made. You're being biased, and not promoting fair use.

Alex, Who are you talking to? This isn't addressed to anyone. There is no reference to any specific material. What revision? What bias? What is quackwatch? Your comment is altogether unclear. Since it was posted after my message I want to know if this is addressed to me. If not, I would like to know if you have any reason to keep in any of the material I outlined earlier. Thanks. Vivekachudamani (talk) 17:53, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

This was an unsigned comment made by an IP editor - please just ignore it. Alexbrn 17:02, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Quantum Physics

Hi Alex, In case you didn't see, Quantum Physics is a new topic in the talk section I began today, and I wanted to let you know about it here because I reference you in it. Vivekachudamani (talk) 22:07, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Biographies of Living Persons Policy --Deepak Chopra

Alex,

Your recent edits show you are repeatedly violating WK:BLP policy. You have already been warned 3 times. BLP pages are judged in favor of removing contentious material. There is no mention of the 3 revert rule for BLP policies. I am following WP: BLP policy to immediately remove poorly sourced contentious material without discussion. You are violating policy by reverting it without consensus.

You must read the BLP policy and abide by it. You need to understand the phrase "remove immediately without discussion."

Furthermore Olive has already ruled against you on this material. Consensus by neutral editors was achieved even though it wasn't required here on a BLP. All the discussion on this is already there on the talk page. It is disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise. You are trying to game the system reverting it 3 times yourself but not having it technically count as a edit war by having "IRWolfie" revert one of those edits. But the 3 revert doesn't apply here anyway. That just makes you look pathetic and desperate.

This is going to look very bad for you when it is revealed you have staked your reputation on keeping in the SkepDic reference to the Jiddu Krishnamurti line when that line is not even in the book. It isn't there. It isn't there. What could be a better example of unreliable source for the Jiddu Krishnamurti line than to send the readers to the SkepDic book where it doesn't exist? I'm honestly not trying to make you look bad, but you are not helping yourself here. I'm really trying to make this a better balanced article, stop posturing and bullying, let's stick to WP: BLP policy . Vivekachudamani (talk) 20:29, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

It would be more constructive if you actually understood WP policies before citing them. Alexbrn 20:31, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Dispute resolution noticeboard/Burzynski Clinic

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

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Nice work

Hi, Thank for responding to my request for your help on the MBSR stuff. I'm amazed at how dedicated some of the people are here and you are one of them. Sorry I messed up on the psychology sentence. I just thought that since the word mindfulness was linked to the Mindfulness (psychology) page then it should mention psychology. But you are more experienced. Thanks again, --LarEvee (talk) 19:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, and - after editing the Mindfulness (psychology) article some more, I think your clarification is in fact good (and have re-made it) since one of the issues there seems to be a blurring of categories between kinds of "mindfulness". Interestingly, based on the most recent research it looks as if the story for mindfulness is a positive one, since it seems genuinely to help people who are having a hard time ... so after removing the cruft these articles can be a lot more direct without having to rely on the rather shaky sourcing they are currently using. Alexbrn 05:37, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Your revert of sourced science

Dear Alexbrn, explain why you reverted my edits http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Soursop&curid=382945&diff=567947375&oldid=567940812 Prokaryotes (talk) 17:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Because they removed sourced information and added poorly-sourced implications about human health. Please make a case on the article's Talk page is you believe your edits have merit. Alexbrn 19:11, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Done. https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Soursop#Removal_of_sourced_material_by_user_Alexbrn Prokaryotes (talk) 00:15, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Toxicity of plant seeds

Please consider to improve the article further, read here http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Soursop#Toxicity_of_plant_seeds Prokaryotes (talk) 18:02, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Regarding your gang

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Prokaryotes_linking_YouTube_content_apparently_not_uploaded_by_the_copyright_holder Prokaryotes (talk) 19:22, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

WP:TINC Alexbrn 19:25, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Costa del Sol

Hello Alexbrn. I saw that you resolve conflicts about the neutral point of view or fringe theories. I would like you to give your opinion in this discussion, if you would be so kind. Thanking you in advance, greetings.--LTblb (talk) 20:09, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

I come back to thank again your kindly disposition, greetings.--LTblb (talk) 20:40, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	For tireless editing on topics with neutrality problems. bobrayner (talk) 03:12, 13 August 2013 (UTC)