Misplaced Pages

A bowl of strawberries for you!

I withdrew my opposition...I don't expect Wizardman to answer my perhaps pointy questions there, but they are what I should have posted in the first place as that may have better explained why I would either support or oppose. It just so happens that the Never vote was at my Rfa, but the point is as a crat he would consider such a vote a viable one that might go towards a hard consensus count and if so, I don't think he should be a crat no matter whose Rfa a Never vote may be on.--MONGO 17:55, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Hey there

How did your RfA go? I was unaware of it. I hope you got your mop and bucket back, there's a clean-up needed on Aisle 6 ... Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 02:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Nope I did not, and never will...but thanks for asking. Have not heard from you in a long time...hope all is well.--MONGO 02:24, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Apology

Sorry about RFA, my mistake. -- KTC (talk) 20:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

No problem...--MONGO 23:02, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

People

Infoboxes on "long dead people", you write, are not served well by an infobox. Did you read articles about some? Franz Kafka, Michelangelo, Maria Theresa, you name them, - that's what I see ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:39, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Gerda...yeah, they look fine, but I lean towards no infoboxes on bios of that nature since I think the article text can cover the issues. A couple FA's I was the primary on do not have an infobox. I think its a case by case thing and for some reason that isn't based on any policy or guideline, in the case of the Bach article and similar ones, I prefer no infobox. I wouldn't sweat it...nobody gives 2 hoots what I think anyway.--MONGO 19:13, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I do ;) (care, I mean). I am new to the topic and try to understand. For example why someone phrases "impose an infobox" where I would just say "add an infobox". The sheer mentioning of the word seems to generate strong feelings in some users. Looking at FAs, 2 of the 10 scheduled for April have no infobox, one is a political movement, the other an opera. Did you know that an {{infobox opera}} is in the making? (Look at the example, for fun.) All bios of April have an infobox. - Looking at March: all 10 bios have an infobox, dead or alive. Keep looking! (Did you know that I have a history of fighting infoboxes? "My salad days ...") --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:48, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Nobody cares! MONGO just a pawn in the game of life! In order for me to change my mind, I have to have a mind to change!--MONGO 20:22, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Mind, look at the examples, for a change of mind (or at my talk, for the 1 April DYK) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

(WP:TPS...) Mong and SuperMong, perhaps? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:33, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

The "MONGs"...are my cousins from across the sea...dim of wit but stout of heart.--MONGO 20:42, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Saw a movie about them not too long ago ... had Clint Eastwood in it. Was actually pretty good. "Get off my lawn!" I've felt like that around here a time or two. Antandrus (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Old Friedrich Wilhelm was only a lowly Number 10 (or was it even lowlier Number 5).. but he gets a booking all the same: Martinevans123 (talk) 20:50, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Proof of the meaninglessness of being a mong.--MONGO 02:35, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Here are some cookies for you

Thank you very much!--MONGO 02:31, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Elliott Knob.jpg missing description details

• File:Elliott Knob.jpg

is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors make better use of the image, and it will be more informative to readers.

If the information is not provided, the image may eventually be proposed for deletion, a situation which is not desirable, and which can easily be avoided.

Disambiguation link notification for April 14

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Company Glacier (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Bonanza Peak

Dark Glacier (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Bonanza Peak

Isella Glacier (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Bonanza Peak

Mary Green Glacier (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Bonanza Peak

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 19:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Boston marathon bombings

Note to TPS'ers...Suspect #2 is Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev....his brother, suspect #1 is dead

Re Fort Yellowstone Images

Mongo,

I don't see any excessive white space related to images for the Fort Yellowstone article on my laptop or Ipad --Mike Cline (talk) 16:44, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Mike....um...neither do I...nor have I ever, even when we had the gallery up. I think galleries are generally considered undesirable for featured articles, we have had some featured articles that have them. There is a gallery of Grinnell Glacier I think in both the Retreat of glaciers since 1850 and the Glacier National Park (U.S.) articles which are both featured. I know the Fort Yellowstone article may seem like it is no longer mainly your effort, but it just seems that way I assure you. The research and body of the article and the message are all yours, and its an important storyline that even this old park ranger that used to work in Yellowstone, wasn't fully aware of. Kudos to you for educating so many.--MONGO 17:04, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Glacier National Park (U.S.) Was brought to FA by Elkman and I back in 2007 and I updated it in 2010 so it could be on the mainpage that year to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the founding of the park. Anyway, if you look in the section on glaciers, it has a gallery, but not in the standard format. The only real difference of note however, is that gallery is setup to provide a timeline of glacial retreat, showing how Grinnell Glacier has receded over time. So its not really just a random collection of images of buildings.--MONGO 18:58, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Comments left at RfA

Thank you for leaving comments at my RfA. This is just a friendly notice that I have replied to them. Regardless of your vote, and your decision to continue this conversation or not, I appreciate you taking your time to vote in the the first place. Cheers, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Improper RfC closure at Talk:Ugg boots trademark disputes

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Wayne (talk) 12:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Not sure how I'm involved...will check it out.--MONGO 13:21, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Wayne...you apparently edited the UGG Boots article after User:Phoenix and Winslow did...the two of you first met (I believe) on the Franklin child prostitution ring allegations 2 years ago. On the Franklin article, much of what you were protecting was fringe material..and it was stubbed out by User:NuclearWarfare...You were also protecting fringe material on the Kerry and Kay Danes article (which Jimbo Wales ended up stubbing out) and many years ago on 9/11 related articles, which is where you and I first met and in which I was one of those keeping as much fringe material out as possible. Now I see you have followed Phoenix and Winslow to both UGG Boots and the Tea party dramafest...thats not good at all. Are you aware of the issues regarding Wikihounding?--MONGO 03:50, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

If you check the history of Ugg boots you will see that I started editing in October 2010. Phoenix and Winslow edited two days later which would have been the first time that I knew he was also editing the article. Despite both of us editing frequently, the first time we actually interacted was on the Talk page in July 2011 when I replied to a post he wrote and there was no acrimony at all. The disputes first started in October 2011 when P&W objected to using the word "generic" in the article. Most editors opposed him so he posted the most insane personal attack against me that I've ever seen in an attempt to discredit everyone who opposed him. That post was the first time either of us said a bad word about the other in that article. I remained completely civil in answering that post and did not "complain" about anything else P&W said until two days later and that was because he was refusing to accept consensus. You can check the link above for yourself. Being on the same article, treating them civilly for the first 12 months and then only starting to argue after they make an unwarranted attack on you, is that the behavior of a stalker?
I remind you that over 90% of my 911 edits are still in those 911 articles and that the 911Arbcom you filed against me found nothing wrong with my editing. Are you claiming to be a higher authority than Arbcom? Wayne (talk) 05:09, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I'll look again at your talkpage archives, but I did not see any evidence I filed either an arbcom case or filed an arbcom enforcement action. Jehochman did...he apparently brought up your edits and I may have commented. It would be helpful if you could supply diffs showing where I filed and also help me see what that "insane" personal attack was that Phoenix lodged against you rather than the link to the entire talkpage archive. Here's what has to happen between you two: either work together collaboratively or be forced into an interaction ban. But I know I can speak for the community when I tell you that this multi-front, multi-year antagonistic relation between you and Phoenix is growing tiresome. It should also be of note to you that disruption of articles isn't limited to article space...the worst POV pushing is usually in talk pages...and that sort of thingn the promotion of fringe stuff greatly undermines the ability of good fatih editors to effectively improve any article.--MONGO 11:52, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

My mistake, it was filed by Jehochman. That investigation also looked at my talk page posts and found them reasonable. This is P&W's specific post, even you must admit that I never claimed Bush had prior knowledge. Wayne (talk) 15:31, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay...its always best to not get personal about other editors and Phoenix went overboard in that comment. What we need to do here is figure out a few things. Firstly...which one of you is or are either of you stalking each other. Secondly, if you two are showing up at places where the other is active with the sole purpose being to pick a fight, it needs to stop. Thirdly, if you can't stop, then the community will make you do so, either by way of an interaction ban, topic bans or other restrictions. So what do we have to do here...both of you know the way forward that is best to each of you and the pedia. Perhaps if you avoid the Tea Party articles, Phoenix will avoid the Ugg Boots articles...I don't know if that's a fair trade to both of you or not. Think about it.--MONGO 16:25, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

If you check the editing history of Franklin child prostitution ring allegations you will see that Phoenix and Winslow made his first edit to that article in January 2011, over three months after I first edited Ugg boots so I couldn't possibly have followed him from the Franklin article to Ugg boots. We had no arguments at Ugg boots until October 2011 after he made that post. He has since brought up the stubbing in every single unrelated content discussion. In regards to the Ward Churchill article, I edited the page in April 2009. P&W first edited it in April 2011. In regards to the Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin articles, I did follow him but was justified in doing so. P&W had argued on the Franklin talk page that because the Tarpley and Chaitkin articles both claimed in their leads that they were conspiracy theorists, the Franklin article could say the Franklin accusations were also a conspiracy theory because Tarpley and Chaitkin both supported the accusations. I then went and had a look at both articles...and found that P&W himself had edited both articles hours earlier to include the claim, so I tagged both edits requesting cites. Other editors reverted both of P&W's edits the next day as BLP violations. P&W is leading you up the garden path about stalking. The real problem is his bringing up the stubbing of the Franklin and Danes articles and my 9/11 editing to discredit the editors whose side I take in disputes and which you keep helping him with. This has been brought up before three boards but all that happens is that an admin tells him it's a personal attack and that he is not to do it again. Then he keeps doing it. It was so blatant during the RfC that I thought he would be finally warned at the very least but again he gets away with it. Wayne (talk) 08:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

This isn't about who edited first...it about which one of you if either of you are following the other around the website. Now if he's adding material, especially to BLP's that needs a reference and you're simply adding citation needed tags, then that's not really an issue. The bottom line though is that you two seem to be at war across several article spaces and noticeboards...if you folks end up at arbcom, the arbitrators will look at everyones editing history...and sadly, it only takes a small fraction of diffs to cast a long shadow over even an overwhelming preponderance good contributions. The two of you need to decide what you're going to do to avoid further confrontations.--MONGO 13:45, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

You are missing the point. We were both editing Ugg boots and this was the first time we "met". I was already editing Franklin when P&W turned up there. This was after we edited Ugg boots so definitely no following anyone on my part. Did P&W follow me to Franklin? It's possible but unlikely. At the Tarpley and Chaitkin articles I tagged unsourced edits he made to those articles specifically so that he could cite the Tarpley and Chaitkin biographies to support a Franklin edit he made, so that doesn't count as stalking. The result? No stalking by anyone. Wayne (talk) 15:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Let me repeat...The bottom line though is that you two seem to be at war across several article spaces and noticeboards...so the two of you can either disengage or it will only get worse.--MONGO 15:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I stopped editing Tea Party as soon as it was brought up. The Ugg articles are the only ones we both edit. I created the article so how can I not edit it anymore just because someone doesn't like me and decides to disrupt it. P&W's very first post on this article accused it of "trashing Deckers" and avoiding mention that Australian companies are "obviously mimicking Deckers" boots. There would not be any warring at all if he didn't make personal attacks. Wayne (talk) 16:28, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

MONGO, the sequence of events was fully detailed at the ANI thread, which has probably been archived already. I was already working steadily on the Ugg boots article in July-October 2010, and was also very active on the Talk page. On the afternoon of October 20, 2010 Wayne made some edits to the article mainspace, but then left immediately and didn't return for more than four months. We were two ships passing in the night. And for all practical purposes, he had moved on. I was still there. The head-on collision started in January and February, 2011 at the Franklin article, where he was on the other side in a content dispute. In March 2011 he returned to Ugg boots after an appearance one afternoon in October and an absence of over four months, on the other side in a content dispute. In April 2013 he showed up for the first time at any article about American politics: Tea Party movement, on the other side in a content dispute. If I was working on a larger number of articles or involved in a larger number of content disputes, or if I hadn't walked away from Misplaced Pages completely for about a year, I think it would have become obvious a lot sooner. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 14:26, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

A case could be made then at arbitration...short and sweet with diffs and little conversation. Cases should be present with just the facts...avoid long diatribes about what you think...let the diffs speak for themselves...show the timeline/chain of events. The case should focus on the issue of wikihounding and fringe POV pushing.--MONGO 15:10, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey there. Guess what? Wayne is still Wikihounding me. Remember when he said, "I stopped editing Tea Party as soon as it was brought up" on May 1? Well, he waited six weeks for the heat to die down, and now he's back. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 05:15, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Re Fort Yellowstone

Mongo,

Thanks for the work. it would have never made FA without your guidance. I agree with you that the subject is extremely important. Lots more stuff on yellowstone and glacier to work on. --Mike Cline (talk) 22:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Congrats on the FA! PumpkinSky talk 00:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you.--MONGO 04:04, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

@Mike...I have an article I want to get to Good Article soon...it may interest you as its Yellowstone related. I don't know if there are enough comprehensive sources about it to see it all the way to featured level, but we'll see. Will keep you posted.--MONGO 04:04, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Re

I just left a detailed message on the Moose talk page! You're pressing this case awful hard...I honestly can't believe anyone is going to rise to the defense of that map, given how riddled with errors it is. Chubbles (talk) 20:59, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Arbitration case "Race and politics" opened

An arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and politics. Evidence that you wish the Arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence sub-page, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and politics/Evidence. Please add your evidence by May 21, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can contribute to the case workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and politics/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Ks0stm 01:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

NPA

My edit summary should have been "(Read WP:NPA and don't alter my posts!)" --Trofobi (talk) 17:52, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Grindelwald-Männlichen gondola lift

Just noticed that you reverted a change of mine, where I was adjusting the article lead in line with a rename of the article I'd made. You didn't revert the rename, so I'm guessing that wasn't your objection, but you also didn't leave a comment, so I'm left wondering.

Actually the article has since moved on, before I noticed your revert, as I discovered a better translation on the owner's web site. Could you explain your revert, and do your objections still apply?. -- chris_j_wood (talk) 11:33, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry about that....it was an accidental rollback so feel free to restore your edit.--MONGO 13:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Already sorted. -- chris_j_wood (talk) 14:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 4

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Mount Fury, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Luna Peak (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 13:31, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Is your webcam running?

That was probably Holder. He's a notorious prankster. Tom Harrison 12:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Somebody needs to tell him that there may be a federal law prohibiting impersonating the President....he should know better. I'll keep a lookout on YouTube for anything Holder may have uploaded. I think he uses the handle laughinghyena.--MONGO 15:08, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The clicking you hear on your phone is the Spanish Inquisition; nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition to use modern electronic monitoring techniques. Acroterion (talk) 18:23, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

That explains it. Its odd that so much was made of some generally small amount of wiretapping, eavesdropping and whatnot under the Bush administration, how he was infringing on civil liberties and whatnot, but now this expanded issue is reveiled and the press is much less enthusiastic to scrutinize it. Its not being ignored, but we're not hearing the outrage that was going on 8 years ago. I am sure that my moniker here is already redflagged at the NSA, FBI, CIA and a half dozen agencies that don't exist since I'm residing in a well known teaparty stronghold and must repent! Surely since I'm here, I must be one of THEM--MONGO 20:55, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

'Shock jock' disrupts BBC's Sunday Politics show

A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:28, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Arh, great to see Mr Jones so calm for once. "I'm here to testify that your head was not cut off" lol, nice one, David Aaronovitch. But, the Bilderberg Group? hmmm, scary!! Martinevans123 (talk) 15:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

OMG...sorry to any British talkpage stalkers...Jones epitomizes the term Ugly American...how embarrassing! I guess I now need to watchlist the Bilderberg Group to see how much conspiracy theory junk is showing up. I'm surprised that Jones didn't make more of the Andrew Neil and Rupert Murdoch "relationship"...kudos to Neil for his frankness about Jones being the worst person he has ever interviewed! Funnny.--MONGO 16:03, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There a quite few Brits who think that all Amercians are like this!! (Well, apart from you and President Obama, of course). Yes, he is funny, for about this long anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:06, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

And my impression of your country and its inhabitants is the opposite...my impression is that things there are kindler, gentler, more respectable, safer, more civilized and better educated. Hence the Terrorist Attack in Woolwich on Lee Rigby seems so completely out of the norm for the UK...I might not be surprised here, but it was a shock to see that there. Rest assured, only about 80% or Americans are like Jones! So there is hope yet...not much but some small glimmer of hope.--MONGO 16:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Eagle Peak (Wyoming)

Hi, I thought you might be interested that I plan to expand this article you created, possibly as a DYK but as part of my attempt to improve all the US State Highpoints articles.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 23:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks...sounds like a good plan...I went and added a location map and a few points and made comments at the talkpage.--MONGO 03:29, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 16

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Stout Lake (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Tarn

Waddell Lake (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Bridge Creek

Wilcox Lakes (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Tarn

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:51, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Why did you revert my edit?

There was no reason to revert my edit at ANI here. I am going to restore it. Kumioko (talk) 13:04, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kumioko....it was an accident and I self reverted immediately....luckily I had a fast connection. Sorry about that.--MONGO 13:38, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

No problem, sorry I didn't come back I did notice that. Kumioko (talk) 13:41, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

MONGO trying to master new touch screen portable device...makes more mistakes than usual...combination of large hairy hands and dim wits makes things harder for MONGO to understand.--MONGO 14:03, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Haha, MONGO not alone in having that problem if him looks close enough at others edits. Happens I suppose to editors of a certain vinatage, certainly to me. Ceoil (talk) 08:06, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Silly flimsy portable devices. 'Zilla use hueg screen plus keyboard size of Michigan. Always reliable! bishzilla _ROARR!! 10:14, 23 June 2013 (UTC).

Ceoil knows that bishzilla is bankrolled by serious business, and serfs like myself and MONGO have to figure this shit out for our selves. As such we beg for mercy. Ceoil (talk) 10:38, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

MONGO take ever wise advice of the zilla seriously to avoid serious consequences...I might be of later vintage but still too young to want to become dinner for Jurassic critters.--MONGO 16:05, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Hairy Shakespeare of the Woods Barnstar

• MONGO blushes uncontrollably! Coolest award in Misplaced Pages history! Much time and effort in devising award...crafted solely for the MONGO...There's many a man has more hair than wit so I shall continue to work on the wit and make sure the hrair is in its place. Many thanks!--MONGO 17:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

"Hath not old custom made this life more sweet

Than that of painted pomp? Are not these woods

More free from peril than the envious court?"

-- William Shakespeare (talk) 17:18, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Poor and content is rich, and rich enough Some tubers, fresh leaves and no hunters makes for a happy MONGO.--MONGO 23:44, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Precious again

refuges of natural wildlife
Thank you for taking us on hiking trails to wildernesses areas, such as Grand Teton National Park, to countless forests, lakes and glaciers, with a sense for the relation of people(s) to nature, - repeating: you are an awesome Wikipedian (26 September 2010)!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 166th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, repeated in br'erly style, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:19, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Gerda...still at it...working on stubs for the next national park FA effort...but have to get an old FA back into shape by updating the refs and have a bio I want to take to GA soon. Have a great day!--MONGO 21:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Price Glacier (Mount Shuksan) may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• /ref> The disconnected lowest portions of Price Glacier calve small ]s into ].

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 23:20, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Its an odd thing that as long as I lived in that region and even participated for well over a month in the Yellowstone fires of 1988, that until this past Saturday 7/29, I had never heard of the Blackwater fire. I stumbled upon the information inadvertantly and was also surprised no article, not even a stub had been written yet so I started the article...then the next day an even worse loss of life happens in Arizona. Kudos to you as well for seeing we needed the article on Ten Standard Firefighting Orders...that was quick work on your part. Thank you for the barnstar!--MONGO 22:57, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I did not realize you wrote it before the Yarnell fire! I live in national forest in Colorado and Arizona, so I'm thinking a lot about wildfires lately. The Blackwater and Mann Gulch fires bracket an era of firefighting that led to the formation of the Ten Standard Firefighting Orders and many other advances in safety and technique. Blackwater is the major turning point for wildland firefighting techniques in the Western US. A surprising missing article.

Can you get this article on the main page for Do You Know? The process looks complicated, but it would be timely. --AfadsBad (talk) 23:29, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know what the time frame is for "new" articles to appear on DYK but thought that it might be too much right now since the Yarnell fire is spotlighted in the In The News section...I might ask a more experienced editor with DYK to see if he will add it tomorrow.--MONGO 23:45, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

You might be right, too much on fires, and I don't know the rules, but I think the historical interest in this fire is high enough to make it very interesting. --AfadsBad (talk) 23:50, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I'll come up with what they call a hook for the DYK and see if I can con a buddy into nominating it...the DYK nomintion process isn't user friendly I don't think..least not to me...in my 8 plus years here I have only nominated a few for DYK. Really appreciate you're quick generation of the fireorders info and I guess we can include the watchouts (18 of them) in that page as well...will get to it this weekend if not sooner. I also just added several more images to the Blackwater fire article...wanted to keep them historical so they're all black and white.--MONGO 00:19, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Good, especially because it has pictures and might be able to lead the section. Good find on the backpack hand pumps; they are mentioned a lot in the literature about the fire. I am getting ready for my summer field session, so I probably won't add much more, a little here and there, but that's why I tried to put some good sources in for others. --AfadsBad (talk) 01:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I'd be glad to nominate it. The article got 1617 page views yesterday, and I suspect they weren't all part of Bishonen's copyedits. Got a hook you want to use? Acroterion (talk) 01:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

@AfadsBad....we haven't met before ands it's been a pleasure working with you...thank you for your edits....look forward to more collaborations with you. Acro....I hoped you were watching...hehe...how about "...that after the Blackwater fire killed 15 firefighters in 1937 the U.S Forest Service started the smokejumpers program...." Or simply that the Blackwater fire killed 15 and injured 38 firefighters in Shoshone National Forest, Wyoming in 1937.--MONGO 02:31, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I think the second hook is more direct and snappy. I'm pleased to see that my Mummy Cave article got a mention. Acroterion (talk) 02:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

It's at DYK at Template:Did you know nominations/Blackwater fire of 1937 (nominations for June 30 articles). Acroterion (talk) 03:03, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Acroterion! This was fun, MONGO, to add something in support of a well done article, and to see it all come together with a couple of editors each doing their thing. I will check out what else you are working on some time, and see if I can contribute. --AfadsBad (talk) 03:19, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome, good to see you helping out. I see a couple of articles I should work on: having written the Winecoff Hotel fire, I need to write articles for the La Salle Hotel fire (the same year as the Winecoff fire) and the Strand Theatre Fire which appears in the List of the deadliest firefighter disasters in the United States. Acroterion (talk) 03:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me...appreciate all the assistance from several editors!--MONGO 11:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

• Just wanted to stick my nose over here and let you know that when I heard the news of this weekend, I thought of you and your work on the Yellowstone article. Risker (talk) 23:11, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

  Thanks Risker...I know the vast majority of firefighters go their entire careers and never have a major mishap. In 1994 I saw a helicopter crash and in 1996 I witnessed the crash of a Secret Service cargo jet on Sheep Mountain just outside Jackson Hole, Wyoming...I should be thankful that neither myself or anyone I knew personally that died on a fire or major accident. So odd that of all the millions of acres that burned in the Yellowstone region in 1988 that no one of the tens of thousands of firefighters and support personnel that were there that season died. The situation in Yarnell seems almost inexplainable...the reports when they come out will be somber reads.--MONGO 00:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

RfC draft

Hi, I'm just letting you that I have removed a comment you posted on one of my user sub pages as I felt it was off-topic and you had missed the objective of the draft. You are welcome to comment there, but please do not use it to air any concerns about adminship or bureaucrats in general or anything that is not directly related to the draft. There are other places you can do that. Cheers, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:11, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't see how my comments were not related...maybe I missing something.--MONGO 00:22, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

My comments were spot on...The notion of having crats doing something they were not elected to do aint going to fly. Just because they will lose one useright doesn't mean we turn around and give them a new one that they were never elected to do. Thought you should get some feedback before you take this proposal live, but I see its by invitation only...Cheers,--MONGO 01:05, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

You still appear to miss the purpose of the draft which is not expected to attract general comments on its talk page; anything like that can be expressed on the RfC if and when it ever goes life - that's what it's for. The invitations are deliberately public, so anyone finding them is welcome to provide their feedback. If they do, they are encouraged to read it carefully in order not to miss the explicit objective. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:16, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I'll let you and they hammer out how you want to word it and review it if you open the Rfc. I'm opposed to giving crats the ability to read consensus to desysop. I feel that there are extremely few admins (none standout) that have repeatedly misused their tools or positions that have kept their userights.--MONGO 01:43, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

That's your opinion, and I won't argue with it, but it's got nothing to do with the draft, or eventually asking the entire community to express their opinions on such an idea. I'm not even saying whether or not I personally favour such a solution, but I do feel it's one that the community should be given an opportunity to deliberate upon. I don't care either way if they reject or accept it. So let's leave it at that. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Kudpung...I know you're a great person so we'll just say this is one situation where we're talking past each other.--MONGO 02:06, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Blackwater fire of 1937

Death of Lee Rigby

'revert a slew of POV edits'

I amended numerous unproven claims about an on-going legal case, which seemingly disregarded the talk page's: 'Important notice'. How is your edit any less guilty of POV than mine? Beingsshepherd (talk)Beingsshepherd

You think (one of) the assailants is now a "suspected assailant", because there is a legal charge of murder in place against him? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:11, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing *charge* with *conviction*. Beingsshepherd (talk) 17:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)Beingsshepherd

Oh, I see. So if he was convicted you would still claim be was a "suspected assailant", yes? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:34, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

No, in that event his status would change from presumed innocent to legally guilty. Beingsshepherd (talk)Beingsshepherd

No one is saying they are guilty. But its clear we just report what the reliable references say and in this case, the references all refer to them as the suspects and/or assailants and that they have been charged and arrested. They don't say alleged or suspected as an antecedent word. We can continue this at the article talkpage...but not sure what else there is to cover.--MONGO 17:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

No one is saying they are guilty!? Were you laughing as you wrote that?: ' Two assailants, later identified as Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, drove a car at Rigby, knocking him to the pavement. The assailants then attacked and killed Rigby with knives and a cleaver, and attempted to behead his body. ' Beingsshepherd (talk) 18:48, 7 July 2013 (UTC)Beingsshepherd

Are you saying there are no sources to support these claims? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm saying we should err on the side of caution: ' One of the two suspected Islamist terrorists who allegedly butchered a British soldier on a London street ' ~ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10077439/Woolwich-attack-why-was-suspect-Michael-Adebolajo-free-to-kill.html

Beingsshepherd, if you cannot understand that Misplaced Pages just reports what the sources tell us, then I can't help you. Do you think we made the story up and then the news got their information from us? Please read about Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources...--MONGO 18:58, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Then you should have no problem with citations of mainstream media sources, which name the men as 'suspects' (as the article incongruously does). Beingsshepherd (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2013 (UTC)Beingsshepherd

I have the article page watchlisted...take the article discussion there. I'm not going to keep explaining the same issues over and over on my usertalk.--MONGO 02:31, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Troy's not really burning, but..

I know boring comments like that one do bloat up a talkpage thus making it less readable and accessible, but it's not like the rest of the page is a feast of reason and flow of soul, is it? I'd leave it if I were you. Cassandra at the peak of her insanity (crazytalk) 21:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC).

...and it's not policy compliant to remove it unless there's a personal attack or private data in it, and makes us look excessively censorious, etc. Please leave it alone... Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:32, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

George...read the top of the page...I am notorious....the comment and all other comments by that IP look like dramamongering....I don't see any substantive article work. Grrrrr....--MONGO 23:10, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Dear me, George. Do you have any reason to suppose my note wasn't enough for MONGO, and needed piling on? Or that he's too green to know about policy? Shall I send my good friend Darwinbish to your page to explain all about how it's rude (she may have a better word) to tell seasoned users stuff they already know? Especially in the case of notorious users. Cassandra at the peak of her insanity (crazytalk) 23:16, 19 July 2013 (UTC).

Cassandra: What, I don't know Bishzilla?

It wasn't piling on, so much as starting to separately respond and then noticing you had (the subsection title fooled me initially) and combining, before I edit-committed.

Mongo: I know, but the tagging others do as to "little to no substantive edits" for comments like that is less drama-inducing than removing them. Removing them escalates drama rather than reducing it, IMHO. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 23:39, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

George: You don't know Cassandra, if you think you can hide in Bishzilla's pocket! <an intemperate rant on everybody's as well as the project's imminent demise supervenes in hexameter, quickly removed as tl;dr.> Cassandra at the peak of her insanity (crazytalk) 23:56, 19 July 2013 (UTC).

/me considers creating an extremely unruly small sock to be known as Imminent Denise. Bishonen | talk 00:00, 20 July 2013 (UTC).

Meh...its a trolling IP...somebody explain to it that all we need is the link to the post, not a frickin entire regurgitation of the comment.--MONGO 01:53, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 21

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Mount Degenhardt, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Mount Terror (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:05, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

User:Daloonik

A user you blocked in times past has resurfaced: see User talk:Daloonik and User:Snotbot/Requests for unblock report. Acroterion (talk) 13:27, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

How weird. I blocked him 7 years ago...most would have created a new username and moved on by now. I guess if his contributions are sound in other venues as he claims there isn't any reason for the account to remain blocked...I guess someone would have to watch him. I can't even remember what the infractions were.--MONGO 13:55, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Hum...impressive block log.--MONGO 14:09, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Maybe if I got my toolbelt back I could indef the account again if he acts up! Lol.--MONGO 14:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Have you considered applying for it? --Anthony Bradbury 18:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I've actually rerun twice since...thanks for asking Anthony.--MONGO 19:03, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but the last one was now some time ago, was it not? --Anthony Bradbury 13:22, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/MONGO 3 was less than a year ago actually...it wasn't very pretty but I think a number of people misunderstood some comments I had made in the months prior to that Rfa so they commented accordingly. Extra tools would let me be a bigger participant during the week as I do most article editing on weekends when I have sufficient time to do the necessary research. Tools would help me work on some of the off and on backlogs....but the title of administrator means nothing to me...if I decide to run again I'll do a self nomination.--MONGO 13:41, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Re: Tea Party movement ArbCom case

Thanks for the note on my User Talk page. In the ArbCom case for Tea Party movement, I've presented evidence of the Wikistalking, including the statement by User:WLRoss on May 1, "I stopped editing Tea Party as soon as it was brought up," and then returning to Talk:Tea Party movement, on the other side of the content dispute once again, in the middle of June after the heat had died down. If you have any evidence to present, or comments to make regarding the proposed findings of fact I've offered the Committee here, you may wish to provide "comments by others." Also there is a motion to just page ban everybody — the good, the bad, and the ugly — for six months and hope that some uninvolved editors will show up and reach consensus during those six months. Discussion of the motion rapidly moved into polite discussion that was predictably characterized as "bickering." The comments and discussion start here. regards .... Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 17:40, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't like the motion but it's an easy way out since, in defense of the committee, this while mess is pretty difficult to see who is right and who is wrong. I did try to follow the issues but the fact is that I need like 12 hours to get up to speed to make a coherent comment on the matter and right now I don't have the time. However, the editor in question is well known to me and has been problematic now in at least 4 different articles...so any further misuse of this website by him to promote fringe viewpoints is going to force us to put a stop to it.--MONGO 18:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the editor in question has successfully Wikistalked me and is effectively homesteading on a series of articles where I started editing before he did. As a result that series of articles is a train wreck. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 15:12, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Some articles just simply have little hope of ever getting good. Polarizing topics just attract POV pushers...it's the nature of the beast. Misplaced Pages salvation, if there is any, can be found by selecting topics you find personally appealing that have few if any controversies surrounding them.--MONGO 15:32, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Like you and your glaciers, right? Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 17:31, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Sort of...glaciers mountains and things like that are usually pretty benign so even though I am active in a few controversial areas such as articles related to 9/11 and some discussions, I have a zone of retreat where I can actually get something done. That's not to say that all controversial topics have zero chance of improvement...ifs just that for your own sanity it's really best to keep things in perspective and help out in other areas that generally lack lengthy antagonistic discussions.--MONGO 17:45, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Eagle Peak (Wyoming)

Blackwater fire of 1937

Hi again, other than thanking you for the appreciation that you showed me, I wanted to address something which I had forgotten. I forgot to verify the sources and do a quick check on its factual accuracy (Not that it's needed, I just want to give it a try). I'll give you the feedback here itself maybe within a day or two, do you want me to? You can say no since surely users more familiar with the topic/sources are will do it anyway in any nominations.

Also, wherever you want take it from there, whether GA or FA, I'll keep a close watch too. I would like to see what has been overlooked or even better, if it gets pumped up to a GA. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:08, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I archived the peer review but feel free to run through anything else and post your findings at the peer review and I can address them from there. I plan on taking the article to Featured Article Candidates so I know we will see some discussion about the references then.--MONGO 19:05, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

You are very welcome and thanks for your feedback in the peer review. Good luck with article, I'll be watching it. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 20:12, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Thank you very much....tea would be good right about now. I have yet to get an article to featured level without the wise suggestions and copyediting from editors such as yourself....the best part of the process is the editors one meets along the way. I try to contribute to another featured level submission as a copyeditor or reviewer whenever I nominate something I have been the primary editor on...this seems only fair. But when someone such as yourself shows up to do a peer review or to work on a good article or feature article candidate out of the blue, then thats pretty cool...kudos.--MONGO 18:23, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!