Misplaced Pages

Thanks. AS could be expected, some editors use it to settle some personal scores, but that is business as usual of course. Shoot the messenger! Fram (talk) 11:42, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Salted page

You salted Alloy Digital after an overzealous user tried to create the page four times in a single day. That user's article was inappropriate, but I certainly feel the subject deserves an article, and have created a draft at User:WikiDan61/Alloy Digital. Unfortunately, I am unable to move this article into main space while the article is protected. Can you please remove the page protection so that my version of the article can be published? (Or review the version I have created and move it into mainspace yourself? That would work too!). Thanks! WikiDan61_ReadMe!! 18:25, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I've unprotected it (it was going to expire today anyway); you are free to move your page there (I haven't checked it, we need to trust our fellow ezditors a bit!). Fram (talk) 06:39, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Page is published now. WikiDan61_ReadMe!! 10:52, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Jimbo's talk protection

Hi Fram,

I do non believe Jimbo's talk should be protected for weeks. A vandal will find the ways around the protection anyway and will be right back, when the protection expires. There should be other ways to deal with vandals. 76.126.142.59 (talk) 16:41, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

There should be other ways to deal with banned editors, too, but if wishes were ponies... --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:04, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I see you read my recent posts. It is great you agree with me! Actually dealing with banned editors is easy: banned editors should be treated as human beings. Wikipedians should learn how to let banned editors go. Banning should not be humiliation. Banning should not be punishment. I believe Misplaced Pages will be better off if banning is banned. In the most situations blocks are enough. Here's an interesting reading on the subject. Remember there are human beings listed in the banned users list, human beings many of whom are much better persons than some Wikipedians who supported their bans.76.126.142.59 (talk) 21:51, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm... WP:BANNEDEDITORSAREPEOPLETOO is still a redlink, unlike the one about IP addresses and the one about arbitrators. (Two much-maligned sub-classes of editors!) Maybe you should work on that. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:23, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

There's no need in a new Misplaced Pages policy. There's a need in a kind and reasonable person who knows Misplaced Pages inside out, maybe somebody as you. Why don't you start with nominating this list for deletion? Remember to deal with banned editors means letting them go. Deletion of the list will be a step in the right direction, and you will kill two birds with one stone: helping Misplaced Pages to deal with banned editors, and helping banned editors by letting them go. Or you could start with removing Peter from this list. His close family member is very ill, and it is my understanding Peter is not going to edit Misplaced Pages anyway. Try to do something kind and you will be treated kindly in return.76.126.142.59 (talk) 00:12, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, killing is not really my style. I think all of us would be happy to let banned editors go... but the reality is that banned editors sometimes don't want to go.

In the link you gave, someone claiming to be Peter talks at length about how he's in all sorts of discussions with arbcom and WMF and lawyers and such about Misplaced Pages, and how he has edited Misplaced Pages again in order to move things along. And other people there are busy advising him about retaining a lawyer or mounting a complaint against someone else's lawyer or being his own lawyer or various similar things. None of this sounds like "letting go" or wanting to be let go.

You may wish to comment on Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:The best way to avoid ever being blocked (2nd nomination). --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The thing is that has nobody ever tried to treat Peter as a human being, nobody has ever tried to really let him go. He might have edited Misplaced Pages in order to move things along, but only because nobody has responded his emails. I believe I read somewhere a story about Jimbo and a vandal. This particular vandal was a really bad case, and then Jimbo contacted him somehow and very nicely asked him to leave Misplaced Pages alone. Guess what, the vandal did! He simply wanted to be asked nicely. Peter is not a vandal, he should be treated with dignity. There's no need to keep him in the list. There's no need to have this list on Misplaced Pages. There's no need to ban users. Blocks are enough.

Thanks for pointing out this funny essay, although I do not see how it is connected to our conversation, except maybe that the language used in the nomination by user Roscelese does not speak in her favor at all. She's probably not a very nice person that user Roscelese because in the nomination she's discussing the contributor and not the contributions, but I believe user Ched covered this matter well enough, and there's no need for me to add anything to it. 76.126.142.59 (talk) 02:04, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I might have to give Fram their talk page back sometime, and this seems like that time ;) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Help moving

Can you move Elisiva Fusipala Tauki'onetuku to ʻElisiva Fusipala Taukiʻonetuku for me?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:23, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Done! Note, as usual, that I know nothing of the subject or the language, so my move is not a support for the new name. If someone opposes the move, I'll revert it and a WP:RM discussions will be needed. Not that I expect any problems, but on Misplaced Pages, you never know... Fram (talk) 06:41, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Category:1820 in Colombia, Category:1823 in Colombia and Category:1823 establishments in Colombia

Category:1820 in Colombia, Category:1823 in Colombia and Category:1823 establishments in Colombia, which you created, have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --Dirk Beetstra 08:18, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Deleted page

Hi there - Our page was deleted before we could get content up and forward people to add their own. Can this be re-added? It is http://en.wikipedia.org/The_Cooperative_Trust; the reason for deleting was 'No explanation of significance (real person/animal/organization/web content/organized event'. How quickly and how many users need to add content before it's removed? Thanks!

Are there any independent reliable sources (newspapers, magazines, ... not affiliated with the group) that have given significant attention to the trust? WP:N and WP:ORG give more information on what type of groups warrant articles on this encyclopedia, and what groups don't. The article as it was written didn't give any indication at all that the trust is in any way "notable" (in the Misplaced Pages sense). Fram (talk) 06:33, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes - a few are listed below. http://www.cuna.org/Stay-Informed/News-Now/CU-System/Crash-Network-now-Cooperative-Trust-with-CUNA-Mutual-support/?CollectionId=8 http://filene.org/community/cooperative-trust http://www.cuna.org/Stay-Informed/News-Now/CU-System/Marshall-To-Lead-The-Cooperative-Trust-For-Young-Adults/ https://www.mcua.org/node/322 http://www.creditunionmagazine.com/ext/resources/Dailies/MONDAY2013.pdf http://www.cutimes.com/search?search=cooperative+trust&cmd=Search

• Filene, CUNA and MCUA are sponsors or partners of the trust, not independent sources. Creditunion magazine is primarily payed for by CUNA, so agian not an independent source at all. CUTimes seems to be the kind of website that reprints press releases word-for-word, not independent reporting on a subject. It still is only a single source, while the other five are clearly not independent sources. Fram (talk) 11:38, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Qin (surname)

Hello, you deleted Qin (surname) to allow a move requested by db-move, but at talk:Qin (surname), an open requested move existed at that time. Shouldn't the requested move discussion have been able to be let run, instead of moving the article through a db-move? -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 00:30, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

No, the db-move was undoing a recent move, back to the standard, stable situation. If a new name is wanted for the page, a move discussion can be had, but when there is doubt about the correctness of the recent undiscussed move, then a revert of that move is normal practice (even more so here, when the original mover was the one that wanted to move it back). Feel free to have a move discussion, my move back doesn't mean that I support or oppose any particular name a priori. Fram (talk) 06:30, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your response -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 06:55, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

AWB and Articles tagged for deletion

Hi there! I tagged Li Tianyi for A7 and I see you added tags to that pag, which is completely fine, but next time if there is a speedy tag on the article, please check it first so it can get deleted or the CSD gets rejected. Best Wishes Prabash.Akmeemana 12:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes I don't really know whether the article meets the CSD or not, and I prefer leaving that decision to others. Most ones I encounter I either delete ot remove the speedy, but when in doubt, I just let it stand for someone else to decide. Fram (talk) 12:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

NY Times article mentions you

Did you see this? Jane (talk) 06:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but thanks for dropping a note about it. I'm also mentioned in a few articles about the recent Jimmy Wales - Edward Snowden outing problems in some very prominent newspapers like Der Spiegel and the Neue Zurcher Zeitung. The result is that I'm banned from Wales' talk page and that some lone admin has promised to block me if I don't follow that rule. Apparently Jimbo only considers whistleblowers or critics "heroes" when the criticism isn't directed at him ;-) Fram (talk) 07:03, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Huh, that's interesting. As you can see I am not that in tune to "Wikipolitics", so thanks for the explanation! Looks like you're taking a lot of heat, so hang in there. Jane (talk) 07:54, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

No problem, I can use some heat after the long winter we had :-) But staying out of Wikipolitics and sticking to plain editing is often the best solution to keep enjoying this site. Fram (talk) 07:58, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I know! I totally agree, especially about the heat part - Happy Fourth of July, for what it's worth Jane (talk) 08:34, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Default sort revert

Hi Fram, if it is not necessary, why do we have? Yes VE puts all default sort additions under the cats.Egeymi (talk) 07:19, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Defaultsort is only necessary when it is different from the article title (e.g. the article Barack Obama is sorted as Obama, Barack). It is not case-sensitive, and should not contain accents and diacritics. For most articles, it is not necessary at all. And I thought that defaultsort should come in front of the categories, not after them, but I'll check on that before raising it as an error. Fram (talk) 07:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for informing me about it. You may try and you will see that VE puts all such additions under cats.Egeymi (talk) 07:28, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I checked, and according to the defaultsort docs, it may be placed beneath the categories. This violates the WP:APPENDIX style guide, where defaultsort comes in front of the categories, but visualeditor is clearly not written with any MOS in mind (note e.g. the way it removes spaces between stub tags or how it puts template parameters after each other instead of on a new line, and so on). Fram (talk) 07:33, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

This isn't going to go well...

Malleus is exceptionally rude when he flexes his muscles, but I fear blocking him for incivility, particularly for a month, is opening a major can of worms. Jus' sayin'... Doc talk 08:47, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

• For what it's worth, I think it would be worth placing a link in his current block log to the old one to record that he has a history of this behavior dating back as far as 2008. — Scott • talk 12:04, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

• • It is already hard linked in the previous block log and the two accounts are clearly and obviously linked in many ways. I made sure of that when I did the final Malleus block. There is no confusion that this would clear up by additional linking. The reason the block log wasn't moved over isn't Eric's fault as he did try to do a traditional move which would have moved the block log over, but it was denied by the Crat as the software won't allow moving accounts with over 50k edits. (I worked with WilliamH on this) I don't think anything else is needed and might seem a bit pointy if we did. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 12:33, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Re the previous log, I know; but it's not connected in the other direction. Not everyone is aware of this user's name change. I suppose it is mentioned on his user page, but I can't imagine that every admin combs through a user's page before deciding what grade of block is appropriate. — Scott • talk 12:51, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
      • But making a larger deal of it when the current linkage is adequate for all admin is just likely to cause a lot of drama and debate with very little to be gained. Anyone that would have an opinion on anything he does already knows. Any admin that would consider a block already knows. Seriously, it isn't worth the drama and further block log links are going to be seen as pointy, whether they are or not. It will look like you are kicking him while he is down, again, even if that is not your intent. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
        • I've put a link to the block log of the earlier account in the AN discussion; hopefully this will inform any future commenters who weren't aware of it, and perhaps also most of the earlier commenters who may not have been aware of it. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:13, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I mentioned at ANI that 48 hours would be more reasonable. Eric normally doesn't comment on the person but on the behavior, and this seems like an isolated incident (at most a few hours in months of superlative editing). Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:19, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

It is no secret that Eric and I get along well, but I still think I can maintain a degree of objectivity here. I did mentioned that I understood the block, but the duration might be more than required to get the job done. Looking at the totality of the circumstances, I think a duration of 48 to 72 hours is adequate for the job. Looking at the lead up, it does seem that he had plenty of prodding, which doesn't excuse his behavior, but it does explain it. I won't labor the issue, but did want to offer my perspective here in a somewhat quieter venue. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 17:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Earlier short blocks or early unblocks haven't changed anything (at worst they have sent the message that he can do as he pleases, he will be unblocked anyway). He has been shown (understandably) much more leniency than most other editors in the past. But we have chosen for Misplaced Pages a model where collaboration and civility are central (as one of the 5 pillars), and not one where good content work trumps everything else; at some point, enough is enough, and a different approach ha to be tried. Short blocks don't send the message home, then perhaps longer ones, like they are being applied to everyone else, will finally make it clear that civility is not an option but a necessity. And I don't see where he had "plenty of prodding" for or . The only one of those 5 links I gave which can be reasonably attributed to excessive baiting or prodding seems to be this one. Fram (talk) 07:25, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

@Dennis: "Looking at the lead up, it does seem that he had plenty of prodding, which doesn't excuse his behavior, but it does explain it." I can only assume I'm who you are referring to. What "baiting" or "prodding" occurred when this happened? Seriously. Turning a blind eye to clearly unacceptable behavior is even worse than calling them on it. It implicitly supports it. If I can't challenge this editor's behavior: who can? I should keep silent while witnessing abuse? And it's my fault for "baiting" if I speak up? Doc talk 07:48, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

You know, I blocked him for these edits, so I don't see what your reply has to do with my actions or my post above yours. If you weren't replying to me, then please change your indentation or add a username at the front of your post. Fram (talk) 07:55, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Doc, it isn't about blaming you, I'm saying two people were escalating the heat in a discussion. It doesn't excuse the behavior, and I've support a block, but you also escalated the discussion and that it is a mitigating factor. I expect editors will bump heads from time to time, so it isn't a personal judgement against you or Eric. I get along with both of you just fine, although I've worked close enough with Eric to actually understand him a bit more than most do. I've also chosen to discuss here rather than at the discussion, not because I think I am too biased to be objective, but out of respect for Fram because others might think my affinity for Eric would bias me, and I don't want to start drama and side discussions on "involved". Again, Eric did push it too far and I understand the block, the reasonable and necessary questions are: Is a month too long? Is 24 hours too short? As always, my focus is only on solutions as there is no justice here. The real question is only "what is the least amount of time to effectively prevent disruption?". Because there is no consensus as to duration (and some contention as to the block in general), Fram is in a unique position in that he has carte blanche to reduce the block if he felt it served some larger goal here. Again, I won't bludgeon him here or at AN about it, but I do feel obligated to simply point that out. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 11:39, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

I see no evidence at all that reducing the block length will increase the chance that we will have less such episodes in the future. If he wants to continue editing, then the message has to be clear that further similar comments will lead to longer and longer blocks. If he doesn't want to continue editing if it is no longer tolerated that he makes such comments, then that would be a loss, but it would be his choice. But I see no reason so far to lift the block or reduce the block length, and while there is opposition against both the block and the block length at AN (with some opposition going the other way and prefering a ban or longer block), to me it seems as if there is a clear consensus that the block was correct. Obviously, I'm not an unbiased reviewer of consensus here, so I'll not close (or unclose or reclose) the discussion there. Fram (talk) 11:48, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

A bit of "showing me the ropes" please.

Hi Fram. This is the first time I've ever "talked" on someone's page so if I'm doing it wrong please let me know on my talk page. Just wanted to as whether or not my status/ ability to edit/create pages is affected by an administrator like yourself reverting my edits and deleting my page. I'm new to this and don't know what being reverted a few times will mean to me. If so, could you maybe just edit it rather than revert :) I'll bear in mind who deserves an article next time hopefully, I just thought that he was relatively well-known and a page about a headteacher would be okay. Anyway, looks like you do great work on Misplaced Pages and I frankly, anyone who helps wikipedia has helped me. Any tips and advice if us newbies make mistakes would be appreciated. And out of curiousity, what is the disagreement between you and Jimmy Wales about? Thanks :) GiggsIsLegend (talk) 17:38, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Apologies about the Jimmy Wales thing, I've done a little digging and worked out what happened. But the answer about reverting would be appreciated :-) GiggsIsLegend (talk) 18:17, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

In general, people should have been the subject of significant attention in reliable independent sources (newspapers, magazines, TV, ...); this excludes passing mentions, or attention in sources that are close to the person (e.g. anything published by the school or other related institutions will not count towards his notability, although it can be used in his article otherwise). Local sources (the village newspaper and so on) are often discounted as well, as everything and everyone gets some attention there sometimes. WP:BIO explains this more thoroughly. Fram (talk) 06:32, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for that link. Give it a few years, I'll be almost as much of an expert as you are (hopefully). Anyway, thanks. GiggsIsLegend (talk) 13:25, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hej Fram!

I did not object to a block based on the insults on Misplaced Pages, but the "threat" accusation was untrue, as I tried to explain. The hour and the provocations did not help. Of course I regret the coarsity of my language, which reflected the hour and my "don't go to bed angry" policy.

I had wished that the predictions of a lack of interaction (made by WTT and Drmies independently) were more accurate than my assessment, which seemed to have been consistent with the ANI discussion of your proposal. 'Nuff said. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:01, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Unilateral unblocks

Please do not ever do that to a block I have placed again. If you are in a position to verify the IRC log and feel that Ironholds should have been blocked as a result of his commnents, that's fine: go ahead and block him, but that in no way excuses Kiefer.—Kww(talk) 14:50, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you've had support from a single administrator for the length of your block and for the charge of a "threat". Please re-read what Fram wrote, which did not "excuse" anything. Afterall, I was blocked for many hours. Kiefer.Wolfowitz

I'm with Fram on this. Three months was way overboard. AutomaticStrikeout  ?  17:01, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Arbcom filing notification

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Offsite comments and personal attacks and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 23:27, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Another badly photoshopped image

See commons:File:Spamalot ensemble.jpg. I also mentioned it in the deletion discussion on commons. Hairy Dude (talk) 20:43, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Fram (talk) 07:31, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Bill Aliʻiloa Lincoln

Could you move Bill Ali'iloa Lincoln to Bill Aliʻiloa Lincoln?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:02, 7 July 2013 (UTC) And:

• Aloha ʻAina to Aloha ʻĀina

Both done. Fram (talk) 07:31, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Category:1932 in Lesotho

Category:1932 in Lesotho, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Tim! (talk) 06:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Achinger coat of arms

You wrote: "I have currently tagged thos starting with A-C, I'll continue tagging the remainder tomorrow morning." Such massive changes usually require a community discussion in one place. Please wait for the outcome for whatever you already did and then proceed; This may save your and others time. I have posted a notice on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Poland. Staszek Lem (talk) 16:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Never mind. I didn't notice that you nominated all of them in a single AfD page. Staszek Lem (talk) 16:39, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 26, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:56, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

nowiki tags

Filter 550 picks up the nowiki tags without relying on the Visual Editor tag.—Kww(talk) 15:59, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, I'll check it out. Fram (talk) 18:24, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Seems very useful! Fram (talk) 06:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Thanks! Much appreciated. Fram (talk) 06:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Beware VE burning your time

I saw your note how VE has derailed your month, and similar with many veteran users. Let other people do the edit-fixes. I have counted the prior nowiki-tags by wikisearch (search: nowiki-the), as 2,054 on Thursday, and 2,059 on Friday. As long as other editors re-edit for "nowiki" then the nowiki-usage counts will remain low, or a Bot could be written next month to fix the nowiki-patterns. It is ironic how Jimbo took 3 weeks in July to work a totally new adventure, advising us to do likewise, and instead we get "babysitting the infant VE" as diaper duty. They want VE to show how only newcomers expand articles, how, by making veteran editors delay all new articles and resort to being menial glitch fixers. Don't let them derail important new work any longer. Other users can help with edit-fixes. An estimated 57 million children have limited access to education or books. -Wikid77 (talk) 06:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't see their motives as that extreme, but sometimes too much emphasis is indeed put on new editors, while neglecting to cater to existing ones as well. I'll not comment on Jimbo, let's just say that I don't mind him not editing Misplaced Pages for weeks or longer... Fram (talk) 06:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Devil's Gap Footpath

I don't know you and you don't know me but I take objection to your false allegations claiming I am someone who I am not, btw nice way of putting off new editors so stop trolling and get a life, thank you. Toromedia (talk) 07:43, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Please check our WP:COI guidelines before editing pages like Defenders of Gibraltar again. And read WP:CIVIL. Considering that you are a Tommy Finlayson of Gibraltar and had edited the Tommy Finlayson article, my apparent mistake wasn't that strange though. Finally, please don't intriduce copyright violations into Misplaced Pages, as you did with Shipping in Gibraltar, taken from . Fram (talk) 07:53, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Well, well, well, here we are again after explaining to you that I am a newbie and I log on to find out that you have gone out of your way to deliberately delete the last 3 articles that I spent ages writing. How big of you! These bulling tactics of yours is what gives Misplaced Pages a bad name and puts people off from editing, Bully Bully Bully! You never considered contacting me or even helping me edit did you? Toromedia (talk) 21:48, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

How should one respond to getting slapped? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:14, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Files missing description details

• File:De meesterschilder.jpg
• File:Ezelrit op het strand.jpg

are missing a description and/or other details on their image description pages. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors make better use of the images, and they will be more informative to readers.

Disambiguation link notification for July 18

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Drive by tagging and unblock user

Any chance you could help reference some of the articles you've just tagged with AWB ?

I could also do with Eric being unblocked, as he was copyediting an article I'm trying to get to Featured Article status, could you sort that too.

Cheers, Nick (talk) 16:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I think an unblock would be appropriate, as Eric has now acknowledged that "There was some fault on my side admittedly, but only some, not all". He's also promised "fun" once the block is ended. What more could you wish for? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• It's important now that you don't unblock Eric. Each day your block (doubtless a source of pride to you) remains in force is another day that the project loses content and consequently you and your narrow minded supporters look progressively more ridiculous, spiteful and vindictive. Eric was goaded into losing his temper, the whole of Misplaced Pages knows that so leaving the block standing is the best way of highlighting the absurdities and abuses that you and your kind inflict daily on ordinary content editor here on Misplaced Pages.  Giano  21:40, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

  (talk page stalker) "Goaded into losing his temper". Read the diffs, presented above, which actually lead me to "goad" him. And one revert by him of any comment of mine, or one "Fuck off of my page", and the conversation would have been over before it was. You think I was going to AN/I with any of it? Not. I never sought any block of this editor. I was merely speaking my mind. Adults should be able to do that with each other. Whatever happened after our exchange has absolutely nothing to do with me. But the reason I went there affects editors both old and new. Doc talk 06:06, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

  Doc9871, please could you present evidence that you are an adult? I've checked your userpage and don't see any definitive proof. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:21, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Invitation

Hello Fram: This is an invitation to check out Wikiproject Today's articles for improvement and join if you're interested. Thank you for your consideration. Northamerica1000 23:21, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Settings in The Adventures of Tintin

An article that you have been involved in editing, Settings in The Adventures of Tintin, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. —Prhartcom (talk) 04:08, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Notice of discussion on Administrators notice board

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Northamerica1000 04:24, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

As you've been away for a few days and I'm not sure when you'll return, it's entirely possible that the discussion referred to above will have been archived. The discussion refers to Eric Corbett, who was unblocked by administrator INeverCry. This led to the discussion at WP:AN concerning a possible against consensus unblock and administrator Prodego reinstated your original block whilst the discussion was ongoing. INeverCry reversed this block and again unblocked Eric. The discussion as it stands at present resulted in consensus to support the unblock of Eric. Administrator Kww reported the incident to WP:AN initially after INeverCry's first unblock, after Prodego reblocked and INeverCry unblocked for a second time, the incident was then reported to the Arbitration Committee by Kww . INeverCry resigned his administrator status whilst the Request for Arbitration was ongoing and has subsequently retired. His resignation is being considered as being under a cloud for the purposes of regaining his adminship. I hope this overview of the situation prevents you from returning and being left utterly befuddled by a strange few hours last night/this morning. Cheers, Nick (talk) 16:20, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Yhanks for your summary. Yes, I was away for a few weeks, back now, lots of catching up to do. Fram (talk) 06:34, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

What a thoughtful addition. I would add that there is a subtle but significant difference between "Eric should remain unblocked" (ex post facto, in a sense) and "support the unblock of Eric", and it was the former that gained community consensus (although by a fairly hefty margin), not the latter. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:55, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Amy Hanaialiʻi Gilliom

Could you move Amy Gilliom to Amy Hanaialiʻi Gilliom? Could you do something about this ban? I don't understand why I can't perform these moves.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:10, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

It's not about you, it's because of the "incorrect" (in most English terms) apostrophes. Usually, when people want to use them, they do so by mistake. The few correct ones that are prevented this way are considered to be collateral damage in preventing the more common incorrect ones that are prevented by this filter. I'll move it now. Fram (talk) 06:44, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks....How do you bypass the filter?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm an admin, and we are not restricted by such filters (which allows us to help other editors in cases like this). Fram (talk) 07:12, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Your abuse of DYK process

Please see Misplaced Pages talk:Did you know#Abuse of DYK review process by Fram. Prioryman (talk) 09:23, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Gibraltar footpaths revisited

Please check out Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Footpaths of Gibraltar. I, as the lone delete advocate now, am a bit peeved that there seems to be a group effort (I'm not saying sockpuppets) to keep the article without really addressing the issues fairly. Kitfoxxe (talk) 19:39, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Nanasipauʻu Tukuʻaho

Could you move Nanasipau'u Tuku'aho to Nanasipauʻu Tukuʻaho?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:16, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

I'll do it, but seeing that you could create the redirect, I wonder why you couldn't have just moved it yourself. Strange... Fram (talk) 06:37, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I still can't I just create the redirect beforehand so I can link the category I created for her on wiki commons while I waited for you to move the wiki article to the correct form. The system is allowing me to create as much redirects with as much okina as I want, but it just won't let me move the articles from the commas to the okina. I think I told you before about the red letters that pop up each time I try to move something to its correct form with okina.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:02, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Colin Cheong

I'd like to ask you to reconsider the protection of this article. The only reason is because pending changes level 2, which is the option you chose, has been explicitly rejected by the community. Only pending changes level 1 is currently authorized by the community. See here for a curent discussion of this and several other PC2 protections. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:24, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, no idea why I chose PC2, I think it's the only time I applied PC anywhere, but I may be mistaken. Probably chose it because the vandalism was serious and from autoconfirmed users, but not very high frequency. I've now changed it to semi-protected, I'll try to keep an eye on it and see how it goes. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Fram (talk) 06:33, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Just to clarify Beeblebrox's statement, PC2 may be accepted by the community at some point but the consensus is that people don't want to consider giving it the go ahead until there is a draft policy outlining appropriate uses of the protection. Such a draft policy doesn't exist at the moment. I am hopeful that we can come up with a draft if we put our heads together now, although others may think it is too soon. Yaris678 (talk) 10:00, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

ITN

I'm not going to raise a fuss about it and I'll leave it be, but just a note: given I had explained my analysis of the discussion and also declined to pull until I saw more opposition, I would have appreciated if you hadn't pulled the item without at least discussing further with me beforehand. Ks0stm 08:59, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Your reasoning was highlyt unconvincing. It is not as if the opposes were for invalid reasons, just that some thougt it important enough, and some (a small majority even) didn't. How you could get a consensus out of that was not clear. Fram (talk) 09:07, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

My general checklist is this: 1) Is there consensus the item is in the news? 2) Is there consensus that the event is significant enough to post? 3) Is there consensus on any factors which would prevent posting? 4) Is the update sufficient? 1, 3, and 4 easily passed, and on 2 I judged there was (narrowly) consensus that it was significant due to the reasoning I had mentioned. None of the opposes (sans maybe the plain "absolutely not") were invalid, I just judged that it had met my general checklist and posted accordingly. Ks0stm 09:26, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

If 2 isn't met, then 1, 3 and 4 are not important. I don't see how you can reason that 2 is met without ignoring some of the "oppose" votes, and yet you claim that you didn't do that. It seems that you simply gave more weight to the supports than to the opposes, which feels more like a supervote than a neutral closure. Any reason why the suggested 24 hours (from the ITN admin guide) can't be at least be allowed to pass before deciding if there is a consensus in debates with many (valid) opposes? 09:30, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I was about to post that I had seen your comment about the 24 hours, and actually that's quite a good point and I wouldn't mind letting that go by at all. I would have, except like I said, I thought about it for quite a while before posting and I just ended up deciding that it fell about 60/40 on my post/don't post (wait) scale. Either way, it's down now, I'm fine with that, and discussion can proceed further. Ks0stm 09:40, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Elisabeth Ann

just an honest mistake. no harm done. polite conversation and resolutions is the one thing i miss here on wiki. Thank you kindly for being kind. you don't see that much around here anymore. Happy editing! 50.9.97.53 (talk) 14:42, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

FYI

FYI: (Please wait for page to load.) 70.235.85.119 (talk) 14:55, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Does this mean anything? Is GiantSnowman my sock, or vice versa? Or are we somehow collaborating on lots of football articles? Any chance the IP will explain the FYI?! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:05, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Shit, we've been rumbled! GiantSnowman 19:16, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Nice to know that, whoever this IP is, they didn't care to notify me... Go ahead, make my day, get someone to run a CU, and we'll see how fucking stupid you look, whichever blocked/banned user you are. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 20:26, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks IP. I've immediately blocked these three editors as sockpuppets of each other. How stupid of us to never have noticed this. Please reveal your actual user name so that I can nominate you for adminship. Fram (talk) 06:29, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Bless your heart. 71.139.153.14 (talk) 14:38, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

And your point was....? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Lilian Faithfull

Hi, I nommed this for GA. There's not that much to go on with her and it's technically a sound article, short and sweet in my opinion.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 15:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, much appreciated. I have probably very little time the next two weeks, so if you hear or see little from me, it's not because I'm not interested :-) Fram (talk) 09:45, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

For deleting my mistakes in "16th-century indigenous people of the Americas." Cheers! -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:23, 9 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi

DYK for Charles Vilain XIIII

GA Thanks

Spam

You did an edit to Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for creation/David Adam Kess. I thought I would bring it up with you instead of the boards. I came across this issue at commons http://commons.wikimedia.org/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems#Widespread_spamming_by_a_photographer They claim that this photographer's images have been added to many articles here. It seems most edits are done by IPs. Feel free to ignore this or suggest which board it should be brought up at. I haven't got a clue myself how to deal with it. There is also at least one red link category in the AfC that could probably use routine maintenance deletion.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:13, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Notification

Please see WT:DYK#Proposal to ban Fram from future Gibraltar-related reviews. Prioryman (talk) 12:35, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Matty.007 12:47, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks and More

Hi Fram, thanks for helping out my page I am working on. I was wondering if you could look at it, and if deemed acceptable, deem it right for publishing. The subject is Noam Bramson and the url is https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Noam_Bramson I'd really appreciate the help. Let me know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Concretebeachri (talk • contribs) 19:42, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Article Feedback Tool update

Hey Fram. I'm contacting you because you're involved in the Article Feedback Tool in some way, either as a previous newsletter recipient or as an active user of the system. As you might have heard, a user recently anonymously disabled the feedback tool on 2,000 pages. We were unable to track or prevent this due to the lack of logging feature in AFT5. We're deeply sorry for this, as we know that quite a few users found the software very useful, and were using it on their articles.

We've now re-released the software, with the addition of a logging feature and restrictions on the ability to disable. Obviously, we're not going to automatically re-enable it on each article—we don't want to create a situation where it was enabled by users who have now moved on, and feedback would sit there unattended—but if you're interested in enabling it for your articles, it's pretty simple to do. Just go to the article you want to enable it on, click the "request feedback" link in the toolbox in the sidebar, and AFT5 will be enabled for that article.

Again, we're very sorry about this issue; hopefully it'll be smooth sailing after this :). If you have any questions, just drop them at the talkpage. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) 21:43, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Don't be sorry, AFT (version 5 or otherwise) is a waste of time, that would better be abandoned completely. While the anon probably shouldn't have done this like this, I can only support the initial outcome (and the umpteenth problematic issue with AfT5 it highlights). Please use developer's time (and foundation money?) on better things. Fram (talk) 07:39, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Deletion from my talk page.

I presume the comment that you deleted from my talk page was inflammatory, threatening, or offensive. If so thanks, if not, could you let me know why it was deleted. Martin Hogbin (talk) 12:07, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it was "go * yourself **" (with some offensive terms instead of the stars), and has apparently to do with the moon hoax page. Fram (talk) 12:09, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks then. Martin Hogbin (talk) 16:17, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Volleyball AFD's

I'm beginning to think that your suspicion of a hoax is likely. The 2013 FIVB Girls Cup International of School was supposedly held in Bracknell Forest, England. Google searches can't find anything even remotely close and even searching with the MVP's name turns up nothing. Ravensfire (talk) 15:40, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Check e-mail from S. Wacom

Reply here if you received the e-mail. - 70.192.128.216 (talk) 12:41, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your mail. However, I prefer to discuss things on-wiki only. If your information is of a sensitive nature, you can always contact ArbCom (see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee#Contacting the Committee; you can always mail an individual member of the committee, e.g. if your information is about one of the members of their mailing list) or OTRS (the Misplaced Pages:Volunteer Response Team). If you want your information to be dealt with on-wiki, you can always post it to one of the noticeboards (WP:DR has more info on this). If you don't want to associate your IP address or regular user name (if any) with the information, you can create a new account for this reason, but it is best to state so clearly when posting (e.g. "This is a throwaway account of an established editor, created to avoid repercussions from the editor involved in my complaint" or some such). This will cause some people to dismiss your comments out of hand though. Fram (talk) 12:53, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Stanko Nižić

If the reason for the deletion is lack of sources, then undelete it and delete the "Related developments" section. The lead section is well documented; however, I did not list the sources, which I can do within a few days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neven Lovrić (talk • contribs) 13:38, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

It contained very serious allegations about living persons without any sources; I will not undelete it. Fram (talk) 14:39, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK discussion

I'm sorry to say that we have lost this debate - the consensus seems to be that hooks about crimes are OK. StAnselm (talk) 20:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Until some more errors and very dubious hooks appear, probably... Thanks for trying! Fram (talk) 06:33, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Correct case for Christian de/De Metter

Hi, I'm just wondering how sure you are about the correct case for Christian De Metter. The links in the Notes, References, and External links sections are divided on the issue. But I would consider the following to be authoritative sources, and they all agree that "de" should be lower case: Library of Congress, Bibliothèque nationale de France, and IdRef (reference for Système universitaire de documentation). The last two, for the National Library of France and the French university libraries, seem especially pertinent since the subject is French. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 08:56, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I went with his publishers. Worldcat also gives it with upper case. If you look at you third link, at the bottom (list of works), half are uppercase De, half are lowercase de. It seems that there is no clear preference, and he doesn't seem to have a personal website to check it... This cover has it with Upper Case, as does this one and this one, but strangely this one has lower case, and this one as well; but another one from Casterman in French, , again uses upper case. It seems as if both are acceptable, or perhaps he has changed from one to the other at some point in time? Fram (talk) 09:18, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Such things are a little frustrating, but at least not so bad as when I find conflicting sources about information which is more important than the case of one letter. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 09:30, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, people will find the article, no matter what case we use... If you prefer the lower case, feel free to move it back of course. Fram (talk) 09:33, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, but since there appears to be no single "right" answer, I'll leave it as is. Just one final note: Worldcat, which does it both ways, came up with a unique solution to the problem: Christian de De Metter! MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 10:17, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's one solution we certainly shouldn't follow! Fram (talk) 10:29, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Assisting = attacking

Kudos for taking the trouble to help Miss B. In the real world, anyone who defined assistance as a form of attack would be written off as a (probably harmless) lunatic. But Jimboworld is, well, Jimboworld. Which I've heard described as the product of a little-known collaboration between Lewis Carroll, Franz Kafka, Flann O'Brien and Steinbeck's Lennie Small. Writegeist (talk) 17:10, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, such a collaboration could well produce a weird masterpiece :-) Fram (talk) 17:15, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

12 Peers Theater

Fram, more sources have been added to the 12 Peers Theater article since the last AfD discussion. It shouldn't be deleted again just because the conclusion of a previous AfD discussion of a different version of the article was "Redirect." Please reinstate my edit, and if you still think the article has issues with notability, start another AfD discussion. Thanks! Frankgorshin (talk) 14:31, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Can you indicate which sources are new? You already got a second chance, I'm not going to start a yearly AfD without some significantly better sources. You are free to take it to WP:DRV if you want other persons to check this instead. Fram (talk) 14:34, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

The new sources include two more reviews from Pittsburgh City Paper about recent productions. Reviews of productions by a theatre company in regional publications such as Pittsburgh City Paper are what establish notability. This isn't about giving me a "second chance"; it's about reconsidering the notability of an article based on a growing amount of legitimate sources. The state of the subject of this article is not static; much of the reasoning behind its deletion was the fact that it was a newer theatre company that did not have much coverage, and as the theatre company continues to have productions, its coverage increases. I wouldn't have created the article again if new sources weren't available.

Frankgorshin (talk) 15:13, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Deletion

Hi Fram. As a very occasional and inexpert contributor, I messed up trying to put my user page right, and you were right to delete it in its latest form. I created it very recently, and then noticed that a link to it from this page Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Scottish Islands‎ didn't work. So I fiddled around with it to try and remedy the problem, but I obviously made it worse! However, I have now worked out my elementary mistake, and resolved the issue. Regards Dhmellor (talk) 13:30, 20 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhmellor (talk • contribs)

No problem! It is easy to create a page in the wrong namespace. If you notice this, you can always tag the page with {{Db-g7}}, it will then automatically be added to our speedy deletion category (note that you may only do this for pages where yo uare the only contributor!). Fram (talk) 13:38, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Tito☸Dutta 08:54, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Thanks! I have never had so many barnstars as these last few months :-) Fram (talk) 06:38, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

List of multimedia franchises

Sorry about the mix-up. It should be all fixed now. Cheers! bd2412 T 14:33, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

No problem! For some reason I had both the multimedia page and your sandboxes on my watchlist :-) Fram (talk) 14:45, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, you don't want to do that. It's quite an ugly sandbox. ;-) bd2412 T 15:18, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, wow, my watchlist just went insane.  ;) BOZ (talk) 16:12, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Too lazy to use Twinkle, but I replied to your message at In the Media. Thanks for your feedback, Go Phightins! 10:34, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Deletion request

Hi Fram! I request to delete South Kanpur district & South Kanpur (Lok Sabha constituency) because

• South Kanpur district does not any district in Indian state of Uttar Pradesh. look here
• South Kanpur (Lok Sabha constituency) also does not exist look at Lok Sabha Official Website--Prateek Malviya (talk) 12:57, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
  • You may be correct, but I'm not qualified enough to correctly judge this (I note that the second page indicates that this will only happen in 2014). The best thing you can do is either seek contact with Wikiproject India, or nominate the pages for deletion at WP:AFD. Fram (talk) 13:01, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Apologies

Hello Fram, I made a mistake here - you were right to correct me. I hadn't seen that MfD discussion, and was confusing it with the more parochial discussion about its use in one specific article here, to which I had contributed. FactController (talk) 18:30, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for taking the time to apologize. It's easy to make such a mistake, no harm done. Fram (talk) 18:35, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Leuven

Howdy. A remarkably persistent IP vandal has been disrupting Leuven for a week now. Do you think you could semi-protect it? Thanks, Oreo Priest 22:20, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Too late, another admin did already :-) I have now added it to my watchlist, perhaps next time I'll catch it earlier this way. Fram (talk) 06:51, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Great, thanks for your help. Oreo Priest 13:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Les Aventures des Schtroumpfs article

Hello, I'm Flyer22. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Les Aventures des Schtroumpfs because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, you can use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 23:52, 3 October 2013 (UTC)