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For tireless editing to improve difficult articles on WP ] ] 21:31, 4 May 2013 (UTC) |
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For tireless editing to improve difficult articles on WP ] ] 21:31, 4 May 2013 (UTC) |
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: Thank you very much. You really helped me get on the right track after losing my temper earlier today. (Hope you don't mind I corrected the spelling of my name to Steeletrap. ] (]) 21:35, 4 May 2013 (UTC) |
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== I'm leaving Hoppe == |
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Hello Steeletrap. I am no longer contributing on Hoppe, because the harassment and personal attacks have made it too wasteful of my limited attention and intelligence. I just could not participate there in the current environment on edits and talk. Having worked a bit on Hoppe, however, I hope that editors will now muster the effort needed to undo the damage caused by the unfounded attacks on your edits in the recent past. This will require some real concentration to restore the best of the deleted content. I do hope that you are able to relax after having devoted so much energy to your defense. Good luck, and please do consider finding a way to add an email contact to your WP account. All best wishes. ] ] 03:29, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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: I fully understand your desire to avoid harassment, SPECIFICO. (Though I do hope you join me in celebrating the embarrassing defeat of the false allegations against us.) Regarding Doc. Hoppe's page I myself am less optimistic than you; I do not believe our improvements to the page will make a difference. That's because I believe the "movement" will revert all of the RS content we added and replace it with citations fron "Mises Academy", "Mises.org", "LewRockwell.com", "''Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics''", "''Journal of Libertarian Studies''", and other proxy publications run by Hoppe's co-workers at the Mises Institute. I expect that the descriptively accurate WP:Con sub-title invoking Hoppe's opinions on homosexuality will be eventually replaced by the descriptively inaccurate, non-NPOV "Academic freedom controversy" title. |
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: While I emphatically reject the principles of libertarianism, this ideology undeniably has serious scholars associated with it, as does the "Austrian" School of Economics; however, the "movement"/"Pure Rothbardian Anarchism"/"Ron Paul for President" strain is (as my research indicates) viewed as disreputable even by mainstream libertarians, such as ], whose critical remarks of Mises Institute scholars are systematically cleansed from the pages of their scholars. Operating from a non-empirical, "rationalistic" "economics" framework and invoking (and distorting) dubious philosophical concepts like natural law in defense of their moral absolutism, "movement" libertarianism is little more than a dogmatic cult. "Movement" supporters in this regard are akin to Scientologists, insofar as they not only personally lack evidence for their beliefs, but are incapable of examining data which differ from their ideology and integrating it into their worldview. Their edits to "movement"-related Misplaced Pages entries should be viewed the same as Scientologists' edits to pages like ] and ]. |
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: Therefore, attempts to improve the pages of "movement" "scholars" such as those affiliated with the Mises Institute are likely to be met by irrational hostility and attempts to shoot the messenger. I am unfortunately resigned to the fact that the Hoppe page will soon be "restored" to indicate he has never said anything bigoted about homosexuals, that the UNLV controversy primarily related to whether professors ought to have academic freedom, and so forth. ] (]) 12:54, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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:: At least the Scientologists make some great movies. Did you see Pulp Fiction? I don't think the Miseans can dance. Unless you count the Bunny Hoppe. You might consider linking the ANI to the talk page so that new editors can refer to the discussion on BLP policy and not feel intimidated if they are again attacked for violating misrepresnted and nonexistent "policy." ] ] 13:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::: On the issue of musical ability, Hoppe's intellectual admirers have adapted a Snoop Dogg rap to honor Argumentation Ethics, the "high IQ" society, and other Hoppe contributions. (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-33cuur-hTc). Is that notable Mises scholar ] rapping verse two? ] (]) 18:19, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::: On the issue of posting/discussing the BLP results on the talk page to contextualize Carol's dozens of false accusation on that page, I did this and was -- to my great distress -- falsely accused of a personal attack by another user. Said user then proceeded to "hat" my remarks on the talk page. None of this makes any sense whatsoever, since there was no PA and the BLP issue is clearly of substantive importance to understanding the context from which Misplaced Pages's "encyclopedic" entry on Hoppe sprang. (The full post for which I was condemned was: "Throughout this page,user:Carolmooredc has repeatedly alleged that my proposed talk page remarks/edits to the Hoppe page "violate BLP" by virtue of being libelous, defamatory, OR etc. Her charged and damaging accusations have been rejected at an ANI she filed, where, in a remarkably quick fashion (half a day) and with the approval of literally all editors who read both her allegations and my responses, no BLP violation was found (See:the ANI here)." ] (]) 18:41, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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{{od}}Further to our discussion of ways to flesh out the article, I the youtube link would be an excellent addition, in a “reception” or “public reaction” section similar to other biographies of important figures: |
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Who says academics can’t also be fun? ] ] 22:21, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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== Just a slight reminder not to raise the temperature.... == |
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I will just leave you with a link to ], and it is about your templated warning on ]. Imho, and I watched the Hoppe article and all the resulting kerfuffle from afar, it did accomplish nothing except raise the temperature by another degree. There is no need to take the discussion to the individual users talk-pages when you have an article talk-page to use. Take care, and keep up the good work, but please ] and even the ]. Cheers. ] (]) 16:31, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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: Lecontar, you should know that the template-posting was in response to a previous (spurious) template-posting by user Srich, in which he accused me of making a personal attack for claiming another person's claims were false. You are right that I should take a breather. ] (]) 18:06, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::As unbelievable as it might seem to you, I noticed that, but we do not live by an eye-for-an eye here...... but I also noticed the rising tension allover, and users being on the edge. Every template, every sniping at each other, every post to the involved users talk-pages and vice versa....does not make thinks better. What I wrote above was not a warning, just as I said: a little reminder. And perhaps you also noticed that I reminded both Srich and SPECIFICO to let go a bit, some days ago, on Srichs talk-page. Take care. ] (]) 18:36, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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==de Soto AfD comment== |
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I rolled back the comment mainly because you removed a colon from Sageo's signature. I'm sure it was inadvertent, but it created a redlink. You can certainly re-post your remarks, but I suggest you revise them. Consider, did the other editor ''intend'' to imply bad faith? Thanks. – ] (]) 15:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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: Maybe the other editor didn't intend it, but that was the effect. It would be bigoted to regard everyone as non-notable who has had an article published by LvMI; this is what she or she accused me of. ] (]) 15:38, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::I'm sorry, I was unclear. You said "imputes bad faith" and I said "imply". The differences are subtle, but I think my concern applies in either case. That is: "Did Amanski intend to impute bad faith?" Or "Did Amanski intend to imply bad faith?" Either way, I think an objective standard should apply. That is, if Amanski said "The only reason Steele wants to delete the article is because Steele is prejudiced against all Mises Inst. authors and ... blah, blah, blah" we could say, fairly objectively, that Amanski is intentionally commenting on your supposed bad faith. But that is not the case. You had said Mises Inst. is "ideologically driven", and you are the OP. Amanski was fairly commenting on your rationale for the AfD. Compare, suppose Amanski had said "The fact that his writings appear ''in ideologically driven publications'' is not a sufficient reason to ... delete." If another editor does not ''intend'' to imply or impute bad faith, then we ''assume good faith'' and let it go. We don't let our reactions and feelings about these matters determine if bad faith by another editor is at play. – ] (]) 16:16, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::: Rich, my comments do not entail bad faith, or the claim that Amanski intended to impute bad faith. An observation that a comment may be read as failing to AGF does not itself equate to an accusation of bad faith (or bad intentions). I don't know where you're getting this notion from. ] (]) 16:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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:::: You had said "This comment imputes bad faith onto me, and I ask that it be crossed." And it followed Amanski's comment which included your name. It seemed that you were concerned about Amanski had said. Besides, who else but Amanski would be the proper person to strike out/cross the comment? – ] (]) 16:30, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: It clearly related to Amanski. It was addressed to him (duh). I just don't know where you're getting these notions of intention from. People can say things that come across as imputing bad faith without intending to do so. His remarks were inappropriate, but I do not make any statement about his intentions. ] (]) 16:34, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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:::::: Do I read this correctly? Amanski was commenting on the merits of the AfD and you were commenting about Amanski? The best place to address concern's about Amanski is on the Amanski talk page. Comments about contributors themselves, in AfD or article talk pages, tend to distract from the main topic. – ] (]) 16:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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==Academic controversy compromise proposal== |
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I think your earlier proposal "Academic freedom controversy over views on gays" was closer to the mark. I'd prefer "Academic freedom controversy over remarks about gays". That would leave the door open for a section about his ''views'' on gays. In any event, the best place to post any proposed compromise is at the RfC, not inside a hatted section. – ] (]) 16:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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: Thanks Rich. The "hatted section" edit was an error on my part. "Gays" is better than "homosexuals" if used in a clear context because it's more succinct, and the section title is going to be a nightmare as regards concision in any case. Hoppe seems to endorse the views he stated in class, per his article about the thought police, so I prefer the first definition. ] (]) 16:55, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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I do see continuing comments in the RfC. I posted here because comments inside a hatted area are not visible. Also, sometimes discussions are labeled as "closed" in which case additions are improper. 17:01, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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Say, on your posting "'''"Academic freedom debate over views on gays"''', .... Steeletrap (talk) 17:02, 29 May 2013 (UTC)". Would you kindly put the proposed title in ''italics'' rather than '''bold'''. We generally use '''bold''' to indicate new comments at the beginning of remarks, but using bold for the proposed title looks like ]. Thanks. – ] (]) 17:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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: Just changed it. ] (]) 18:16, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::Thanks. I was tempted to do so myself, but didn't want to rub you the wrong way. – ] (]) 18:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC) |
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== I've been herding cats and have managed to steer one your way == |
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<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:9px;" class="plainlinks">] |
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Srich32977 has given you a ]! Kittens promote ] and hopefully this one has made your day better. Your kitten must be fed three times a day and will be your faithful companion forever! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a kitten, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. |
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<p>Spread the goodness of kittens by adding {{tls|Kitten}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or kittynap their kitten with {{tls|Kittynap}}</p> |
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{{#if:|<p>'''{{{2}}}'''<p>|}} |
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{{clear}} |
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</div><!-- Template:Kitten --> |
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{{clear}} |
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== Interaction == |
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I am advising certain editors to look at ]. As they are repeatedly commenting about each other, it may be appropriate to propose one. – ] (]) 14:30, 31 May 2013 (UTC) |
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: I don't view this as necessary if we can be more civil to each other. I certainly have a lot of improvement to make in this regard and plan on trying harder. Certainly it could be proposed if attempts to be civility fail, but I think it should be avoided if possible, since there tends to be overlap in the articles we edit. ] (]) 14:32, 31 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::Would you like for me to stop having WikiTalk with you? (Four-way or otherwise?) If so, please advise. I am happy to comply – in return I'd like an IBAN that covers (the) other editors. – ] (]) 03:06, 1 June 2013 (UTC) |
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::: Sounds like the lamest four-way ever. You and SPECIFICO have been instrumental to my development as an editor; why would I want to cut myself off from you? ] (]) 03:27, 1 June 2013 (UTC) |
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:::: With your TG userbox ({{smiley|4}}), I don't quite know how to respond WRT a 4-way! But I am quite ], so I do appreciate your response ({{smiley|15}}). Thanks. – ] (]) 04:29, 1 June 2013 (UTC) |
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==Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion== |
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Hello, Steeletrap. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:NPOVN-notice--> Thank you. ''] - <small>]</small><big>🗽</big> 15:10, 31 May 2013 (UTC) |
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== Your signature template -- possible error == |
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On your "request for closures" posting, your signature had "Usertalk:Steelerap" which created a redlink. I believe you recently changed your preferences page, causing the non-link on the signature. I corrected the usertalk link on your posting, but I suggest you take a look at your signature preferences for copyediting errors. – ] (]) 05:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC) |
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: That's odd. Thank you for correcting, Rich. I will take a look at the reference pages to see what my mistake was. ] (]) 05:39, 2 June 2013 (UTC) |
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::Here is the diff where the error popped up: . Looking at it more closely, I suspect the error occurred as you were editing the earlier remark. That is, it is not a preferences page change. – ] (]) 05:45, 2 June 2013 (UTC) |
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== Wikilinks within quotations == |
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FYI, take a look at ]. Links within quotes are strongly discouraged. I read this as pertaining to both block quotes & in-line quotes. (BTW, I've thanked you on occasional edits. When I do so, it for the ''particular'' edit I read, and I want to encourage more of the same.) – ] (]) 04:41, 14 July 2013 (UTC) |
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: Thank you very much for this notice; I was not aware of this policy and your telling me about it will enhance my future edits. ] (]) 06:06, 14 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== Ad == |
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For more info on the banner that I added to your userpage, see ]. The page has a box with all sorts of ads. To remove the ad I added, just revert my change. (I will certainly understand.) If you like it, and need help in adding more please let me know. {{Smiley}} – ] (]) 17:00, 18 July 2013 (UTC) |
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==Disambiguation link notification for July 19== |
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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (] | ]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small> |
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It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 11:11, 19 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== In further recognition of your service == |
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{{Apprentice Editor|caption=This service award is presented in further recognition of your contributions to Misplaced Pages. – ] (]) 23:04, 23 July 2013 (UTC)}} |
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== gun control DR == |
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There is a DR of which I have included you as a participant. ] {{unsigned|Gaijin42|10:55, 25 July 2013}} |
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As the AN has closed, this has been reopened. ] (]) 15:34, 1 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== Quotations == |
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When you use quotation marks and a cited source, the actual quoted words ''must'' be in the text you cite. You cannot take ''your'' paraphrasing and add quote marks. For more guidance see ]. – ] (]) 22:30, 25 July 2013 (UTC) |
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: I take this message to be very condescending and insulting; obviously I know quotation marks have to refer to a quote. While many of your tags are flagrantly erroneous, it is possible that certain quotes had their sources removed, either because of my carelessness or in the process of the numerous reversions that others have attempted of this article. Please show me which quotes lack citations and I will fix it. ] (]) 23:18, 25 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:: Update: I found the error: the link I used referred to the book, whereas the quotes were from the book summary. The proper link has been restored, and your tags consequently removed. I regret my mistake. I hope you reject your insulting insinuation that (unlike most American third graders) I don't understand the purpose of quotation marks. ] (]) 23:26, 25 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::Thanks for fixing the link to the book jacket. Regarding the ''Reason'' quotes, the words posted – "a Bible-based social, political and religious order which ... denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God" – are not in Olson's text. Please fix. – ] (]) 23:47, 25 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::: Yes it does. The full quote used in the Olson piece is " "So let us be blunt about it," says Gary North. "We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God." (see: http://web.archive.org/web/20100129052939/http://reason.com/archives/1998/11/01/invitation-to-a-stoning/1) Did you not read page 2? |
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:::: You have to subscribe to Reason to read the Olson article in the cited link, but an archived version of the cited link is available (which you don't need a subscription to acess) has the whole piece, including the above-mentioned quote. Please strike your comments and revert your tags. Thanks. ] (]) 00:45, 26 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: Thank you for the heads-up on page 2. ''I missed it''. (Hence, the failed verify tag has had a positive effect.) I have taken the quote and put it into a separate subsection. It does not have anything to do with stoning anyone. But now we face the problems of properly paraphrasing it, putting it into context, shortening it, balance, undue (etc). – ] (]) 01:26, 26 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== July 2013 == |
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] Hello, I'm ]. I have automatically detected that to ] may have broken the ] by modifying 2 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry, just again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on . |
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{{{!}} class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;" {{!}}- |
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! style="background-color: #FAA;" {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page<span style="font-size:88%;margin-left:3em;">(Click show <span style="font-size:130%;">⇨</span>)</span></div> |
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{{!}}- |
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{{!}} style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;"> |
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*<nowiki></nowiki>{{red|'''{{'''}}<nowiki>issues|</nowiki> |
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*<nowiki>//www.mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=87 Audio book], Mises Institute, ISBN 0-945466-47-1</nowiki>{{red|''')'''}}<nowiki></ref></nowiki> |
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*<nowiki>com/rothbard/rothbard23.html "The Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult."], 1972, at LewRockwell.com</nowiki>{{red|''']'''}}<nowiki>.</ref></nowiki> |
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*<nowiki>//www.mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=87 Audio book], Mises Institute, ISBN 0-945466-47-1</nowiki>{{red|''')'''}}<nowiki></nowiki> |
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*<nowiki>Richard M. Ebeling]], (editor), ''The Austrian Theory of the Trade Cycle and Other Essays'', </nowiki>{{red|'''('''}}<nowiki>includes also essays by Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, ], Mises Institute,</nowiki> |
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Thanks, <!-- (0, 0, 2, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->] (]) 05:36, 26 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== North RFC == |
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As you have posted your comment in the ''survey'' section of the RfC, would you please remove your comments about appropriateness in the threaded discussion section. (The comment about the needed correction is just fine.) In effect you are taking two bites at the apple. If you would, we can also encourage MilesMoney to move the post there as well. Thanks. – ] (]) 18:57, 26 July 2013 (UTC) |
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In the guidance for responding to RfC, it says "Some RfCs are structured as a series of distinct responses, one per editor." See: ] In setting up the RfC, I had hoped the responses would follow that format. But you've now added a third response. Please remove the "Survey type" responses from the threaded discussion, and revise your survey response to cover all arguments you deem appropriate. Thank you. – ] (]) |
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:Please move your comment about CarolMooreDC's input into the threaded discussion. If it is PA, you can also post to her talk page. I ask that you move the comment, and consolidate your 3 bites at the apple in order to keep the Survey comments and threaded comments as clean as possible. Thank you. – ] (]) 01:48, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:: I won't move it because the fact that her "argument" is basically an ad hominem attack is relevant to it(just as a basic logical flaw in a "keep" or "delete" argument could be responded to). ] (]) 01:50, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::The guidance for the RfC layout is clear. One distinct response per editor. Whether or not it is admoninem doesn't matter -- the proper place to say so is in the threaded discussion. You can post it with a bullet to off-set it from the others. Please do so as this is an issue of orderly discussion management. You've said editors should ignore her comment because it violates the rules. Would you like someone to say that your comments should be ignored because you are violating the rules? Again, please. I am not asking that will detract from your points, or be a big burden. Thank you. – ] (]) 01:58, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::: Rich, I am concerned that you jump to policy citations and admonitions without first verifying that your understanding of policy is accurate. In this case, you misunderstand RfC rules. One is limited to one statemen directly and distinctly addressing and endorsing a position on the matter at hand (e.g. an "approve" or "disapprove" message). But one is not limited in the number responses one may make to other people's remarks; I suggest you reference other RfCs to help understand the difference. ] (]) 02:04, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: I set up the RfC, and I am not making comments (for now) pertaining to the argument. If you had set up the RfC as a series of indented comments, which is an alternative method, I would certainly respect that layout. You have posted your views on the original question 4 times now. You are ''not'' helping yourself (or Misplaced Pages) with these repeated arguments. – ] (]) 02:17, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::::: Please refer to RfC policy. You do not have the ability or authority to ban replies to "distinct statements" retroactively. ] (]) 02:21, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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{{od}} Srich on what authority do you make disparaging statements such as the preceding one about editor Steeletrap? You are among peers here. Your tone is unduly adverserial, judgmental, and authoriarian. Please focus on content. ]] 02:22, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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: It's very difficult to take a statement like "You're not helping yourself" seriously in any respect other than as an attempt to demean. First, such a statement is inherently speculative. Second, there are no RfC policy grounds on which to criticize me for my reply to Carol's personal attack. ] (]) 02:25, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::My comments have been polite requests. I quoted from the RFC guidance. I pointed out how multiple bites at the apple were being taken and how other editors might view them. I am not banning anybody from doing anything in the RfC. I am sorry that you feel that quoting from RfC guidance is adverserial, judgmental, or authoritarian. I am not happy with CarolMooreDC's comment, but that is an NPA issue, not one of discussion management. (If it were outright PA, I may have removed it IAW ] and ]. But the comment did not go that far. In any event, the RFC will run its course and consensus will reign supreme. – ] (]) 02:57, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::Also, please note the guidance in ]: "Feel free to ask people not to add threaded replies to the survey section. This will make the RfC easier to read for the editor who closes it, which is especially important for RfCs that attract a lot of responses." Again, I ask that you not add threaded replies. Please combine your survey response into one paragraph and please move your comment about CarolMooreDC into the threaded comments. Thank you. – ] (]) 05:29, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::: I am encouraged that you are shifting from misquoting policy to accurately referencing it. However, language like "feel free to ask" (as opposed to a definite declarative statement) implies that both making the request, and complying by it, are not obligatory; I typically would agree with such a request for purposes of concision and navigability, but pointing out that an "argument" is basically an ad hominem attack trumps that concern in this case. ] (]) 05:33, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: I have ''not'' misquoted any policy. Please show me such misquotes. Rather, I ''asked you'' -- with sincere pleases and thank yous -- to move your comments. These requests were done before the CarolMooreDC posted her comment. In any event, this is not an issue of CMDC's comment "trumping" anything because you are free to opine on NPA -- in the threaded discussion or elsewhere. I am simply asking that you move the comments into the appropriate sections. – ] (]) 05:54, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::::::Srich, because I believe that you act with good intention, I will reaffirm that you have mis-cited policy on numerous occasions over the past many weeks and such references have repeatedly been indicated to you on several talk pages. It might be worth the effort if you care to review your participation on these difficult articles over the past 4-8 weeks. ]] 13:46, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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{{od}} |
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Steele, I think you'd agree that the RfC got a lot of people interested in the article. And I hope you agree that it's been improved. With this in mind, I think we have only two "primary source" problems remaining. (They are tagged in-line.) If we can get secondary sources for those two items, I will be happy. In the alternative, could we remove the two items pending discovery of secondary support? Once either course of action (secondary support or removal) is accomplished, I will be happy to close the RfC and the earlier discussion as resolved. (RfCs may be closed by originators when there is a quick resolution.) Thanks. – ] (]) 17:14, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:An RfC may be closed if there is a resolution, not an accession to the view of OP. Your views have not been sustained by the RfC, so whatever your intention may be, this proposal appears to be an attempt to circumvent consensus process. ]] 17:18, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::Steele, you've now had input from ], an editor with 10 years of experience and 29,000 edits. (Also, please look at the Barnstars that Collect has collected.) And you have the remarks from ], an editor with 6 years of experience and 84,000 edits. (And a few Barnstars as well.) They are giving you their explicit opinions about what the policy and guidance is -- that the Primary source usage we see is inappropriate. I started the whole thing in an effort to remove those Primary sourced items -- the ones lacking any secondary support. As said above, they are down to two. Will you (and Specifico) please agree to remove the bare primary source material from North article? If you would, the RfC and preceeding discussion can be closed. (Before ending the RfC I would post a comment asking if others have any thing else to add.) Thanks. – ] (]) 20:04, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::: No. Why should we be basing our judgment on logical fallacies (see ]) as opposed to the arguments made? (or in collect's case, her or his failure to make an argument) And for the record, experienced editors Stalwart and EllenCT disagree with you. ] (]) 20:07, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::: I am quite aware of fallacious argumentation -- some years of professional training and experience have honed my skills in this regard. The appeal to authority argument is quite correct, but when weighing the validity of the authority, I will select StAnselm (85k edits) over MilesMoney (169 edits) any day. I brought up the authority of these experienced editors, who have not had much (or any) involvement in the editing history because you seemed to be ignoring the exhortations to follow policy and guidance. Even if consensus seems to go one way, policy must (and hopefully will) prevail. – ] (]) 06:04, 29 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::: Srich, you are compiling a record here of repeated exhortations to circumvent the RfC consensus process. Cherry-picking views after the fact is one step sillier than canvassing. Just let the RfC run its course. Your views have not been supported. ]] 20:16, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::: Incidentally, Srich: Your current campaign to shut down the RfC is conspicuous in its contrast with, for example, your H. H. H. Hoppe RfC wherein the result was clear within hours of posting but the thing stayed open for roughly a month. Ditto your Rothbard RfC. What reason is there to shut down WP process here? ]] 20:19, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::: It is quite interesting, Specifico, that you should object to my efforts to resolve and close the RfC. At the outset you said it was "pointless" and "should be withdrawn". In response to your criticisms, I asked for suggestions on how to improve the RfC, but you had none to offer. I make suggestions to Steele that might resolve the RfC and you say I am on a "campaign" to shut it down. Steele, you provided information about my miscounting of the various tags, and I made corrections. But do you really endorse these comments from SPECIFICO? Back to the "campaign" – if CarolMooreDC had asked for ANRFC, any of us could have commented to the administrator who might act on the request. But she did not. Steele, you have rejected my attempts to resolve the Primary source problem, but that is another issue. So the use of Primary sources is, indirectly, on the BLPNB. I look forward to reading your comments. – ] (]) 05:33, 29 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== Inuse tag == |
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Just a reminder, when the {{tl|Inuse}} tag is up, please refrain from editing. I had posted it. The changes made did not result in a edit conflict in this case, but I posted it with the hopes of avoiding a problem. Feel free to post the template yourself. Thanks. – ] (]) 05:57, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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Steele, I woke up this morning with a thought about the inuse tag. I've just now done an experiment with the tag. I see that when it is posted at the ''top'' of the article, it does ''not'' show up when if someone opens a ''section'' for editing. This is simply a limitation on the template's utility. So I'm sure your edits with the tag in place were purely unintentional. So I think I'll ask the template gurus if they can modify the behavior of the tag. Thanks for understanding. – ] (]) 14:25, 28 July 2013 (UTC) In followup, I asked for a modification of the template. I'm told that MediaWiki can't be changed to institute the feature I'd suggested. 17:18, 28 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== Notice re BLPNB == |
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{{Notice| I have made remarks concerning your editing at ]. – ] (]) 05:13, 29 July 2013 (UTC)}} |
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== Your ping == |
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I got your ping. In turn, you are most welcome. ]. – ] (]) 18:15, 29 July 2013 (UTC) |
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: Of course I thanked you. You specifically quoted BLP policy showing it was a violation for me to add a self-published blog (even of an RS scholar) to illustrate North's views. I learned something and the encyclopedic integrity of North's entry improved. ] (]) 20:08, 29 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== List of capital offenses == |
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I appreciate this effort at article improvement. While it is NPOV, it lacks context. "List of" articles and sections work when we have bibliographies or articles like ]. Rather, we need something that attracts the reader to the prose in the sub-section. (Naturally I prefer my version.) Can we come up with an alternative? Thanks. – ] (]) 01:45, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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: I appreciate your concern regarding the term "list", which (as you note) tends to carry a connotation that is not appropriate in this section. My concern with your proposed section is that it's too broad. The section is really about the sort of offenses (or "offenders") North believes merit the death penalty (this is what the RS are criticizing him for). ] (]) 02:04, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::Well, I reverted the change w/ an edit summary that explained my concern. And opened a thread in talk. St.A has chipped in and says he doesn't think drug smuggling is a biblical capital offense. I'd say we are still looking for an appropriate section title. Perhaps if we can elucidate more in the section text. Also, the second remark about capital punishment for children is a bit redundant given the mention of capital punishment for children who sass their parents. – ] (]) 03:01, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::Well, just to be clear, I don't think ''North'' thinks it's a biblical capital offense. But there doesn't seem a whole to be a lot of disagreement about what are the biblical capital offenses (again, I am not at all sure North includes abortion); though I think there might be a fairly recent debate on whether homosexuality is to be included. For most Christians, the response is a fairly simple "none of that applies any more," with the possible exception of murder being a capital crime - but that can be justified as an exception, since it predates the ]. ]] (]) 03:26, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::: If you object to my prior heading, we are going to have to find one that accurately describes the relevant text. The text relates to North's support for stoning to death certain groups of people; i.e., it relates to his unique conception of what constitutes a capital offense. ] (]) 04:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: We are getting close. "Offenses for which execution appropriate " is pretty good. How about "Sins for which capital punishment is appropriate" ? Reason -- do we have anything (secondary source wise) where North says a ''mandate'' exists? Shallom. – ] (]) 04:23, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::::: Sins smacks of OR (though the inference is entirely reasonable, do we have RS saying North says these are all "sins") and also seems to me to be a loaded word whose use implies some sort of disapproval of the "sin(s)" being discussed. ] (]) 04:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::::: Incidentally, I agree with your view that "mandate" is inappropriate. There is a distinction between favoring and or mandating something. ] (]) 04:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::::::Let's cogitate on this for awhile. This will allow others to chime in on the talk page. Thanks for your comment about mandate. Sins vs. crimes vs. offenses vs. ? My head is spinning! What are the rules about cocktail parties -- never discuss sex, religion or politics (something like that). Well, with North we have all 3 combined into one! So I think I'll get back to the things that are more familiar to me -- sex, drugs, and rock & roll. E.g., I'm off to look at some other topics for a while. I've enjoyed this bit of discussion with you Steele, and I look forward to more. But right now it's good night. – ] (]) 04:42, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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I applaud your opening a new discussion thread on the theocracy question. Good point in saying North does not necessarily believe in stoning in current society. (Indeed, it is an absurd endorsement. I recall a short story on the topic from my Jr. high school days.) As this/his stuff is or may be about his views of the hypothetical new society, we do need secondary sources to flesh out the section. Again, starting up a NPOV discussion is appreciated! – ] (]) 18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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Please don't respond to the recent CMDC remark on the GN talkpage. (Of course you are free to do so, but I hope you won't.) I've responded and I hope my remark covers the issue. Let's work on the section that concerns us, not the number of particular edits. Thanks. – ] (]) 19:46, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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Good response. No harm, no foul. (I should've been less eloquent in my remarks above. It coulda been posted sooner. But, again, I like your response. – ] (]) 19:49, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== Section heading on Rothbard talk page == |
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This message is regarding the section heading here: . ] says: "Section headings: Because threads are shared by multiple editors (regardless how many have posted so far), no one, including the original poster, "owns" a talk page discussion or its heading. It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better header is appropriate, e.g., one more descriptive of the content of the discussion or the issue discussed, less one-sided, more appropriate for accessibility reasons, etc." With this guidance in mind, I ask that you change the section heading to something like "Regarding two 'Austrian economist' sources'. Just the heading please. Say what you'd like regarding the cronies in your comment only. Thank you. – ] (]) 03:29, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:While I almost ping'd a thank you, I thought I'd comment. The "personal connection" might have existed, but 2 of the 3 are dead so it doesn't matter. Still, it implies more than just an academic connection with MR. After all, the 2 guys have/had distinguished chairs (something like that) at their universities. I won't change the heading, I thank you for the change (so far), and I hope you will remove the last, unneeded phrase. (And how did I close an earlier comment? Oh, yes – ].) – ] (]) 04:11, 30 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== Block letters & balance == |
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Thanks for the clarification. And for Block's response posted in LR.com. As we do have his response, the criticism section should mention the pertinent portions of Block's response. – ] (]) 19:25, 2 August 2013 (UTC) |
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: I agree (the reason I didn't mention it was because three text originally came from a source which didn't note Block's response). Have at it, if you like; if not I'll be sure to note it later tonight. ] (]) 19:26, 2 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== Science == |
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Steele, I see you mention that economics is science/scientific. This has stimulated me to look at the articles on science subjects in general. In particular, I've viewed ], ], ], ] (but see ]), ], and others. I see that economics is not mentioned in these articles. Even so, once we get to ], we see economics discussed. (Interestingly, ] is listed as one of the topics in {{tl|Science}}. I've never considered law as a scientific subject.) The ] itself does not give much guidance, except to list economics as a social science. But it does have ] listed (which I want to look at some more). And it seems that experimental economics validates the idea that economics is or can be an ]. Well, you cited the piece by Hoppe where he uses the term "] science" to describe Misean thought. Well, if the Miseans all think using ''a priori'' methods, where does scientific method come in? Arent they admitting that science (as described in the articles above) is ''not'' part of their regime? And are they dressing up their ideas about economics with scientific or pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo? The answers are: scientific method admittedly is not part of their thinking and they are not dressing up their ideas with mumbo-jumbo. Are their thoughts, knowledge, views, justifications, etc. invalid? I don't know. But I understand that scientists think ] exists even though they have no direct evidence for it. At this stage they can only infer its existence. What do you say? Your thoughts on this (e.g., on the ''admittedly'' non-scientific nature of Misean thought) will be appreciated. Cheers. – ] (]) 05:33, 6 August 2013 (UTC) |
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: The dark matter analogy is spurious, Rich; dark matter is inferred from empirical observation even if it can't be directly captured from it. It is necessary to invoke dark matter to make the empirical observations we do see "work" logically. (long before the invention of telescopes et al, the existence of atoms was similarly inferred by thinkers such as ] and ]; they drew this inference a scientific combination of logical reasoning and empirical methods, even if atoms couldn't literally be seen.). The Mises view is that empiricism/observation/attempts to test and verify hypotheses play '''no role''' in the "science" of human action. That's unscientific by definition. (and is to be sharply contrasted with the flavor of Austrianism favored by ], in which logical reasoning plays a much greater role than in other economic systems but empiricism is used to verify and falsify supposedly logically deduced truths.) |
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: In addition to my above reasoning, we also have the direct evidence of Misesians such as Hoppe stating plainly that the misesian view is regarded as "dogmatic" and "unscientific" by mainstream thinkers. |
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: I hope this discussion sheds some light on where I'm coming from, even if we disagree. To be clear, this has nothing to do with ideology. Though I have deep disdain for the libertarian ideology of the ], you don't see me calling them pseudo-scientific, or fringe, or anything than scholars of the first order. ] (]) 05:47, 6 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::Oh, I certainly admitted that the existence of dark matter was inferred from other empirical evidence. (And I do not rest my case on the analogy.) Dark matter is an ''a posteriori'' hypothesis (if I understand correctly). Okay, the hypothesis may end up explaining much of what we do not understand at present. But we do no dismiss the idea as pseudoscience. Along the same lines, where is the direct evidence or empirical evidence for mathematics? By definition, there is none. Do we dismiss mathematics because of this? Indeed, not! Compare, the people touting various pseudo-science theories (and products) are dressing up their nonsense with scientific sounding terminology, etc. I do not think the Miseans are doing anything of the kind. They are gadflies who say "what you are expounding doesn't make sense because....". If the empirical economists had a great case or great evidence supporting their theories, those theories would stand on their own two feet! Here is another idea for your consideration – as I understand, logical reasoning can be carried out in the absence of evidence. For example, people carry out ]s all of the time. Are these experiments empirical? Are these experiments unscientific? Are they pseudo-science? – ] (]) 06:47, 6 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::: This is getting silly. Mathematics isn't an empirical science. Nor is logic. They are the basic foundations of reality, from which all science flows. (Empiricism rests upon basic logical and mathematical axioms, such as A=A and 1+1=2) It is logically impossible to have a world where 2 is less than 1 or A does not equal A. It is logically possible to have a world where economic "laws" do not apply in the same way. |
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::: And of course thought experiments are not scientific. Philosophy is not a science; in my view, it is an attempt to make ''explicit'' the logical (and "metaphysical" or extra-empirical) principles of the universe; these principles form the framework within which the empirical sciences take place. Among them are the principle of ], the principle of casuality and its complement of ], and the basic axioms of logic; the law of diminishing returns does not make the cut.) ] (]) 07:16, 6 August 2013 (UTC) |
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{{od}}'''@srich -- <<dressing up their nonsense with scientific sounding terminology>> -- ''' ''malinvestment'' Q.E.D. ]] 12:06, 6 August 2013 (UTC) |
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:Steele, please note that I opened this discussion with you before you tagged Murray with fringe. (And I'm glad to see that you've dropped the fringe topic (for now).) But let me respond further. In general we see lots of thinking, scholarship, musing, ruminating, cogitating, and writing about various topics. Some of it is empirical, inductive, scientific, non-scientific. And WP, seeking to be an encyclopedia, has lots of articles that discuss unusual, minority, ], and fringe (small ''f'' ) topics. But in each article or topic about an off-the-wall subject (e.g., pseudoscience or otherwise) WP needs RS that says "this stuff about a supposed-scientific topic is pseudoscience". Before we go and label stuff as FRINGE (all CAPS, indicating WP editing terminology) we need RS that backs-up the claim. Consider, there is the ] and the ] – are they similar to the ] or ]? No. Each simply uses the word "law". Do we go and tag these articles as FRINGE? (''No'' – because there is no RS that supports such tagging.) Now if I was writing stuff about how Kepler's laws has verified my scientific prediction that the upcoming ] is going to cause an intense rise in the number, severity, and duration of migraine headaches (and therefore you should buy my "]" for only $19.95 via Paypal), I'd be engaging in pseudoscience (and hucksterism). I'd expect a Reliable Source to come in and say "Rich's ''Syzygy Shield'' is phony!" At that point it would be proper to tag my Syzygy Shield article with FRINGE. In our cases, that is, with the Misesans and LvMI, we need RS that says "fringe" – in the Wikipedian usage of the term – before it is proper use FRINGE for tagging articles or in edit summaries. – ] (]) 06:11, 7 August 2013 (UTC) |
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:: Rich, I think the general discussion (which I instigated in another forum) is misguided, per policy. According to ] the relevant criterion is ''what mainstream sources think''. Fringe theory is defined not as false or erroneous theory, but rather theory which ''"depart significantly from the prevailing or mainstream view in its particular field."'' The relevant question is whether Misesian theory fits the bill. (or more precisely, if there is convincing evidence from multiple RS that they fit the bill.) I plan to do more research in this regard in the coming days. |
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:: In evaluating whether content is fringe or not, Misplaced Pages is basically telling us to ], as opposed to evaluating methodologies of particular theories (which I did above). While far from infallible as an approach, the Misplaced Pages policy is in my view undoubtedly better (i.e. it has ''a better probability'' of yielding articles with accurate content) than encouraging editors to determine for themselves what is true/false, scientific/pseudoscientific, etc. ] (]) 06:22, 7 August 2013 (UTC) |
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{{ec}} |
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:Steele, I forgot something important. You have a "deep distain" for the ]. I have a deep distain for ]. (He violated his oath of commissioning to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and murdered the very people that he, as a physician, was supposed to care for and treat – his fellow soldiers.) I've done some ce on Hasan's article recently because his court-martial began yesterday. And I'd like to see the article on him reach GA status (like that of ]). As I have done on Hasan (however minor), ''can you do the same'' for the Chicago folks? IOW, I challenge you to an ]. Give me an article to improve, a la Turing, and I will do the same for you. If you take up this challenge, I hope you will start with Chicago School because I see some minor stuff in that needs fixing. And, Steele, whether you take up the challenge (or Turing Test) I always wish you the best. – ] (]) 06:31, 7 August 2013 (UTC) |
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:Hey, Steele, I see your note about posting something on the FTN. Frankly, like many noticeboard discussions, I don't think it will go too far. You'd be far better off at having a stab at ]. ''Why better? Several reasons:'' 1. As I mentioned before, the FTN has but one or two threads on Rothbard & the Misesans. If they have not been brought up as FRINGE in the past, I'd think there is not much support for labeling them as FRINGE. 2. Whatever discussion gets worked up on FTN is likely to result in more drama, ], and archiving – nothing more. I'd be shocked if any policy change, much less enduring article editing changes, came about. 3. In terms of Wikipedian contributions, this list article will always be available as a general subject/article for the world to read. If you get some paragraphs or sentences devoted to the Misesans (or other fringe economists), you can then create redirects to your particular contributions. (And even better, you might have enough to create an article similar to ].) Also consider that your edits to this article, supported by the RS you provide, will undergo examination by editors who are interested in creating an expansive and comprehensive listing of pseudoscience topics. (Compared with people who are focused on the walled garden.) It is far more exciting ''and satisfying'' to be building this encyclopedia as opposed to involvement in the continuous bickering that we see on the article talk pages, editor talk pages, and notice boards. The list article is now on my watchlist. I hope to see your contributions soon. Thanks. – ] (]) 05:12, 8 August 2013 (UTC) '''PS''' Be sure to look at ] ''before'' posting to the FTN or the article. – ] (]) 05:18, 8 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== WRT BLPN -- article edit counts == |
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Not a big deal, but SPECIFICO has made 20 edits to Salerno. DickClarkMises made 55 edits. The last one by DickClark was 4 years ago. Also, I'm not clear on what insinuations you think I've made. My point is that too much of the thread has gone off on all kinds of messy side topics. Indeed, I'm commenting here so that another needless side-issue does ''not'' develop in the thread. Also note I tagged the post as "Request unclear" 23 hours after it was opened. Thanks. – ] (]) 19:25, 7 August 2013 (UTC) |
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:'''Greetings, Srich.''' Why not pursue your helpful insight that the initial BLPN request was not well-formed? Others, perhaps noting your tag, asked OP on numerous occasions to refer to diffs, state the BLP issue, and pose a clear question which BLPN could help resolve. OP did not do so. Regardless of whether that was because OP is incapable, of doing so or unwilling to do so, it is clear that this lack of a proper BLPN query was the cause of the pointless, time-consuming, and garbled mess which ensued. Why not use your good will and acknowledged dedication to WP to persuade OP to either set the posting on course or drop it? There's a huge cost in editor time, attention, and good will when these mis-formed noticeboard discussions are splattered to and fro. Editors who take the bait and join in the off-topic nit-picking or worse, the personal comments, are only encouraging future editors to vent their frustrations with similar pointless postings. ]] 20:07, 7 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== GA reassessment for Murray Rothbard article == |
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], an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. |
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== RSN comment == |
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Would you please modify your remark on the RSN. The '''Bold''' "Correction" suggests that OP is making a correction, and it takes a bit of reading to see your signature to make sure OP did not sign it. I recommend a simple bullet at the beginning and change "correction" to "comment". Thanks. – ] (]) 03:43, 14 August 2013 (UTC) |
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: I changed it to "correction of OP." I don't think there is much of a concern in that regard, because my first sentence clearly indicates I am not OP. ] (]) 03:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== ] == |
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Not sure what you were doing . --] <sup><font face="Calibri">'']''</font></sup> 19:09, 14 August 2013 (UTC) |
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: Me either. Obviously, the mass content deletion was unintentional, and I apologize. I will be more careful in the future. ] (]) 19:17, 14 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== August 2013 == |
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] Hello, I'm ]. I have automatically detected that to ] may have broken the ] by modifying 1 "<>"s. If you have, don't worry, just again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on . |
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{{{!}} class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;" {{!}}- |
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! style="background-color: #FAA;" {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page<span style="font-size:88%;margin-left:3em;">(Click show <span style="font-size:130%;">⇨</span>)</span></div> |
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{{!}}- |
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{{!}} style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;"> |
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*<nowiki>com/rothbard/rothbard23.html "The Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult."], 1972, at LewRockwell.com</nowiki>{{red|''']'''}}<nowiki>.</ref></nowiki> |
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*<nowiki>action and racial set-asides, calling for equal rights for all Americans, including whites."</nowiki>{{red|'''<'''}}<nowiki>ref name="lewrockwell" /</nowiki> |
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*<nowiki>//www.mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=87 Audio book], Mises Institute, ISBN 0-945466-47-1</nowiki>{{red|''')'''}}<nowiki></nowiki> |
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*<nowiki>Richard M. Ebeling]], (editor), ''The Austrian Theory of the Trade Cycle and Other Essays'', </nowiki>{{red|'''('''}}<nowiki>includes also essays by Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, ], Mises Institute,</nowiki> |
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</div> |
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{{!}}} |
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Thanks, <!-- (0, 0, 0, 1) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->] (]) 20:14, 14 August 2013 (UTC) |
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:I fixed this in my subsequent edit, so all good now. --] (]) 20:34, 14 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== editor to editor comments == |
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Compare (basically a blog) with the and . (These are at the top of the Google results I got for 'inside the cult of scientology'.) If the discussion was about using the word "cult" to describe Scientology, then the ABC News piece works fine as RS. But the scientology-cult.com does not because it is a blog. Same editing decisions apply to LvMI and Callahan. Also, you've got to consider ]. Callahan says "cult". LvMI says "not cult!" Callahan (or another blogger) says "Are too!" LvMI says "Am not!" (and an enterprising editor finds a blog to support this assertion). The SPS policy ''wisely'' avoids such battles of the blogs by saying '''"Don't use!"'''. – ] (]) 05:58, 15 August 2013 (UTC) |
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=== RSN notices === |
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Hello. Please provide a notice to those individual editors whom you have mentioned on the RSN. Here is a template: {{tl|notice|Include text here.}} <nowiki>{{Notice|your text & ]}}</nowiki>. While the "Notifications" feature of WP is helpful, we do not assume that editors have enabled it on their preferences. Thanks. – ] (]) 03:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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PS: I have made a comment regarding your posting. Basically I say there is no beef about the ''reliability'' of either Callahan or Rothbard. While I did not say so, the dispute resolution board may be a better forum for you. Thanks. – ] (]) 03:43, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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: I don't understand. If you didn't have a problem with the source, why did you delete and challenge its interpretation of Rothbard, as broadly (not just in the case of "euthanasia") supporting the parental right to let child starve? ] (]) 03:48, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::The issue was not the ''reliability'' of the source, but in ''how'' it was used. I've shelled out my 25 clams for the Callahan article, so I'll take a closer look on what he says. (Also, it seems that Callahan is keeping at least one foot inside the walled garden. At the end of "Liberty vs. Libertarianism: The Battle of Titans" (featured on ]), he says his ''Econ for Real People'' is published by LvMI.) – ] (]) 03:58, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::: This makes no sense whatsoever. The source is "used" to say what the source says. If it is a reliable source (with a reliable interpretation of MNR) then there is no problem. ] (]) 04:02, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::::'''@Srich:''' It boggles the mind that you were contentiously asserting your objection without having examined the article. I hope this is not going to recur every time a reference is hard-copy or paid-copy only. Another aspect of the web search problem here. ]] 04:13, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: <u>Steele</u> – Here is what the '''RSN page''' instruction say: "Please focus your attention on the reliability of a source. This is not the place to discuss other issues, such as editor conduct. Please see dispute resolution for issues other than reliability.... If your question is about whether material constitutes original research, please use the No original research notice board. If your question is about undue weight, or other neutral point of view issues please use the NPOV noticeboard." We ''all'' agree that Callahan is reliable, so the RSN is not the board to use. I recommend that you close the discussion, and, as Blink says, discuss the usage of Callahan's article (and the primary source) some more on the Rothbard talk page. – ] (]) 04:19, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: Again, for Steele. I've seen your insert on the RSN. When you ask about "removal or distortion" of a source, you are asking about ''how'' it is being used, not about whether it is reliable or not. That sort of question (i.e., "how") is a OR/weight/NPOV issue. Please don't spin your wheels on this. The meat of the discussion should be on Rothbard's talk page. If we can't resolve it there, we go to Dispute Resolution or another noticeboard. Thanks. – ] (]) 04:39, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: Pleeze, Steele, don't add unneeded commentary to your notifications as you did here: . I ''apologize'' if my suggestion (above) was not clear to begin with – I simply wanted you to provide a basic notice as to the fact that a discussion had started and where it was. But adding "your ... distortion of" is ''not'' the way to make a notification or start a discussion. Thanks. – ] (]) 05:38, 18 August 2013 (UTC) |
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] ]. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed ] from ]. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the ]. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been ]. Take a look at the ] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-tdel1 --> ''Please respect the request for a quotation of a difficult-to-obtain source.'' ] (]) 10:31, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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:Binkster is quite correct. These tags alert editors to come by and solve the particular issue. When we have an article with multiple pages, either the particular page or the supporting quotation serves to ] the information. When the tags are placed, they are automatically indexed into categories and lists that other editors (and/or bots) access so that they can come by to correct. Thanks. – ] (]) 15:29, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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:: I'm starting to think y'all are trolling, because I know neither of you is stupid enough to believe what you're saying. Publication of an assertion in a peer-reviewed, respected mainstream journal is sufficient for verification on Misplaced Pages (and a term paper, academic thesis, etc). ] (]) 16:40, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::Srich, it's been repeatedly explained that the entire relevant porions of RS Callahan text and associated primary words of Rothbard were provided by Ms. Steeletrap in her first introduction of this content, repeated assertions to the contrary notwithstanding. Please review the entire matter and associated threads. Thanks. ]] 15:53, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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] ]. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, talk pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments, as you did at ], is considered ], even if you meant well. Even making spelling and grammatical corrections in others' comments is generally frowned upon, as it tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. Take a look at the ] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-tpv1 --> ''Steele, the use of <s>strikeout</s> is proper on your own remarks, but not on those of others. Using strikeout implies that the editor has retracted the remark on their own. If you disagree with the remark, please add a comment under the particular remark. (I have not modified the attempted strikeout because you did not format it correctly and the "change" is not visible.) Thanks.'' – ] (]) 16:46, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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: Once again, you jump the gun on asserting "policy"-based complaints while displaying little understanding of the relevant policy. The assertion she made about me was false; crossing is appropriate in these circumstances, and often done by members of our community. You can (and should have) verified that this is a matter of objective fact, not "opinion", by taking 7 seconds to click on her link to "my" diff. ] (]) 16:50, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::The guideline at ] is clear. "Striking text constitutes a change in meaning, and should only be done by the user who wrote it or someone acting at their explicit request." – ] (]) 16:56, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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] Hello, I'm ]. I noticed that you made a comment on the page ] that didn't seem very ]. Misplaced Pages needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-npa1 --> ''In this remark you are implying editors are stupid and trolling. Not helpful, not appropriate. The posts by Binkster and myself are efforts to resolve editing issues, nothing more. '' – ] (]) 16:50, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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: Again we have an illustration of why logic matters, and basic understanding of logic is necessary for editors to collaborate effectively. You say I was calling you stupid; my stated basis for believing you were trolling was precisely the opposite: that I "know" you aren't stupid. . |
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: As I have concluded that both you and Bink are trolling, I ask that both of you do not post to this page again. ] (]) 16:58, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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{{od}} Srich, I'm going to put this right here on the scene rather than going to your talk page: You know very well that these repeated templates, for an issue which has previously been aired and to which Ms. Steeletrap has fully responded, are uncivil behavior on your part. Please desist. Thank you. ]] 17:07, 22 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== fellow traveler == |
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Not involved in the actual issue/dispute, but noticed your comment to goethean. You may or may not be aware of (and may or may not have been intending to imply this meaning), but fellow traveler is a bit of a loaded term, and usually brings up communist sympathiser type allegories (at least in the States, I don't know where you or goethean are from). If you intended this, then by all means say what you feel, but if not you might want to tweak it, as I believe you are editing in an already politically charged topic, and adding fuel to the fire is never helpful :) ] (]) 16:59, 23 August 2013 (UTC) |
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: Hey Gaijin. Thanks for the thoughtful note. I must say that I disagree that the term "fellow traveler" is offensive, particularly if used abstractly rather than directed at a particular user. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that, for several years, the Mises Institute-related articles were almost exclusively edited by fellow travelers. That's why the material was so gushingly (and misleadingly) positive. ] (]) 17:01, 23 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::I didn't say it was offensive, just that it is loaded. Your usage makes total sense. I was just pointing out that it carries some hidden meanings, and if you didn't intend those hidden meanings it might derail your point. ] (]) 17:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::: Thank you as always for your input. Hope editing has been going well for you! ] (]) 17:10, 23 August 2013 (UTC) |
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{{TB|srich32977}} |
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== RSN notice == |
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{{Notice|header=RSN re Callahan.blogspot.com|Please see: ].}} – – ] (]) 01:44, 3 September 2013 (UTC) |
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== September 2013 == |
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] You currently appear to be engaged in an ]  according to the reverts you have made on ]. Users are expected to ] with others, to avoid editing ], and to ] rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.<br> |
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Please be particularly aware, ] states: |
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# '''Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made'''; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts. |
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# '''Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.''' |
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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's ] to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents ] among editors. You can post a request for help at an ] or seek ]. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary ]. If you engage in an edit war, you '''may be ] from editing.'''<!-- Template:uw-ew --> ] (]) 16:42, 6 September 2013 (UTC) |
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: ], I am concerned about your ]. 1 revert over the course of several weeks does not constitute an edit war. In fact, it is you who are engaged in an edit war by your 3 reverts in 24 hours. I also ask you to please heed my request to stay off my talk page. ] (]) 17:23, 7 September 2013 (UTC) |
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== Murphy blog as RS for article (BRD) == |
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You might be interested in a discussion regarding the Murphy blog material on LvMI. I have opened a BRD here: ]. Thanks. – ] (]) 00:49, 15 September 2013 (UTC) |
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{{tb|srich32977}} |
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== RSN on Callahan blog == |
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Hello. You made some comments at ]. I have attempted to summarize the comments of various editors in a table. Please take a look and make any changes to the summary of your comments as you feel appropriate. I only ask that the summary be brief. Thank you. – ] (]) 17:14, 20 September 2013 (UTC) |
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==Hillsdale College== |
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] Hello, I'm ]. Misplaced Pages is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a ]. Your recent edit to ] seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-npov1 --> ''Steeletrap, the only way to quote the Huffington Post piece is via a full quote of the particular paragraph. The other edits are spinning it. We are here to give a non-POV rendition. If there is other RS that describes Arnn as a racist, then that RS should be presented. But portions of the H-Post article do not support this description of Arnn.'' – ] (]) 05:46, 26 September 2013 (UTC) |
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: I genuinely don't understand what you're talking about. Can you give me the whole quote? ] (]) 17:53, 26 September 2013 (UTC) |
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::The section has undergone several changes since I posted this message. One or more of the iterations has the whole quote, and Orlady has made needed modifications. So I think the issue is resolved. – ] (]) 19:42, 26 September 2013 (UTC) |
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{{od}}Needed modifications: The uninvolved editor restored the content to almost exactly the way it was before your edit-warring. The needed modification was, as you were previously told several times, to undo your change. You are needlessly building a file of tendentious, uncivil, and battleground behavior. Please consider taking some time off from these economics/libertarian related articles which frustrate you and come back prepared to respond voluntarily to the comments of other editors. ]] 20:05, 26 September 2013 (UTC) |
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== Post to Specifico's talk page == |
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Thanks for your comment on SPECIFICO's talk page. Alas, the template message I posted did not set-off a new section for the remark. See: . The message had nothing to do with competence. Rather, it involved the removal of SPS templates on the ] article. I should have set it off as a separate section. (And now, that I see it may be confused with the COMPETENCE remarks, I see the confusion.) If you would be so kind, please add a section heading. I am reluctant to clarify remark on SPECIFICOs talk page. – ] (]) 06:02, 26 September 2013 (UTC) |
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] You currently appear to be engaged in an ]  according to the reverts you have made on ]. Users are expected to ] with others, to avoid editing ], and to ] rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.<br> |
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Please be particularly aware, ] states: |
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# '''Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made'''; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts. |
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# '''Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.''' |
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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's ] to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents ] among editors. You can post a request for help at an ] or seek ]. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary ]. If you engage in an edit war, you '''may be ] from editing.'''<!-- Template:uw-ew --> ] (]) 13:37, 27 September 2013 (UTC) |
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: Final warning. I have told you numerous times not to post to this page. Continue to do so and I will have to report your ] issues to the relevant noticeboard. One revert in 9 days is not an edit war, contrary to your incompetent interpretation of policy. ] (]) 15:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC) |
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] You currently appear to be engaged in an ]  according to the reverts you have made on ]. Users are expected to ] with others, to avoid editing ], and to ] rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.<br> |
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Please be particularly aware, ] states: |
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# '''Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made'''; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts. |
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# '''Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.''' |
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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's ] to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents ] among editors. You can post a request for help at an ] or seek ]. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary ]. If you engage in an edit war, you '''may be ] from editing.'''<!-- Template:uw-ew --> ] (]) 04:56, 29 September 2013 (UTC) |
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== Proposing a Peace == |
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Steeletrap, I have suggested to Binksternet that he offer some WikiLove to you so that the ANI can close with no further tug-o-war. I hope he does, and that you will accept. Thanks. – ] (]) 00:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== Cornell University students need your help! == |
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Hey Steeletrap, |
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We are two university students who have been assigned to edit an article on wikipedia. The article we chose is ]. As part of the assignment, we need to interact with other[REDACTED] editors. I noticed you posted on his page awhile ago. Would you mind reviewing the page after we edit it and give us some suggestions? |
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Thanks! |
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] (]) 17:45, 1 October 2013 (UTC) |
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Hey Steeletrap, |
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I want to thank you so much for those suggestions. You don't know how much it means to us! I shortened the SNL thing to one succinct sentence. Any other suggestions? <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 22:13, 1 October 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Hi there == |
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I noticed you're an obvious axegrinder. Why do you have to inject your socialist bias into every article pertaining to Austrian economics? <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 20:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==]== |
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Greetings. Because you participated in the ] regarding this subject, you may be interested in participating in the ]. This notice is provided pursuant to ]. Cheers! ] ] 21:40, 4 October 2013 (UTC) |
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==Washington Monthly college rankings== |
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Can you please hold off on removing the Washington Monthly college rankings from additional articles until we've addressed the issue? I see that you've opened a discussion at ] which is as good a place as any although it should be more widely advertised since this is really an issue affecting multiple articles. Thanks! ] (]) 19:30, 10 October 2013 (UTC) |
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*Taking umbrage with which pronoun that ElKevbo used at ] is not cool--especially since your userpage doesn't state which pronoun you would prefer.--] (]) 00:22, 11 October 2013 (UTC) |
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: I'm not taking umbrage. Where in the text is this implied? ] (]) 00:55, 11 October 2013 (UTC) |
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**I read umbrage into "First, it's she." If there wasn't any, then I apologize for mis-reading it.--] (]) 00:59, 11 October 2013 (UTC) |
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:: It was a point of emphasis, as it's important to me, but it certainly wasn't a criticism. No worries on your misinterpretation; that's easy to do on the Internets. ] (]) 01:03, 11 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== Opting in to VisualEditor == |
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As you may know, ] ("Edit <sup>beta</sup>") is currently available on the English Misplaced Pages only for registered editors who choose to enable it. Since you have made 100 or more edits with VisualEditor this year, I want to make sure that you know that you can enable VisualEditor (if you haven't already done so) by going to ] and choosing the item, "<code>{{MediaWiki:visualeditor-preference-enable}}</code>". This will give you the option of using VisualEditor on articles and userpages when you want to, and give you the opportunity to spot changes in the interface and suggest improvements. We value your feedback, whether positive or negative, about using VisualEditor, at ]. Thank you, ] (]) 18:26, 11 October 2013 (UTC) |
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<!-- EdwardsBot 0640 --> |
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== You can stop linking ] now. == |
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I'm not sure if you meant to link it twice in post, but either way, it's not helpful. Binksternet is a perfectly competent editor (with 30 times as many edits as you have), and speaking to him in a demeaning way and offering your mentorship isn't scoring any points for you, or helping to resolve the dispute. Please discuss the content, not the editor. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 22:40, 12 October 2013 (UTC) |
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: I disagree. I think ] is a very important question. All editors -- you included -- should ask themselves "Am I WP:Competent"? Appeals to authority based on post totals and other titles don't constitute competence. ] (]) 23:02, 12 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::Undoubtedly we should all ask ourselves that question from time to time, but let me quote a little bit out of the essay you so often link (from the section titled ]). '''"It does not mean we can label people as incompetent."''' Nor does it mean that Misplaced Pages's civility policy does not apply. Whether you think Bink is incompetent or not, you need to stop calling him that. (As a side note, while comparing edit counts isn't always the best measure of experience, I don't see how it's an appeal to authority. But while we're on the subject of logical fallacies, I thought I'd point out that attacking the characteristics of a writer without addressing the substance of their arguments is ].) <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 23:22, 12 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::: Speaking of logically fallacious assertions, you're wrong to say that citing the WP:Competence page to another user equates to calling her or him incompetent. ] (]) 23:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::: Hello Adjwilley. From my perspective, the concerns I would raise about Binksternet relate to this portion of the "competence" essay: "Social -- Some people just can't function well in this particular collaborative environment. We can't change Misplaced Pages to suit them, so if they're unable to change themselves, they'll need to be shown the door." With Binksternet's history of personal attacks, battleground editing, and other dysfunctional interpersonal relations, I think this is a significant concern. My personal belief is that he's also editing beyond his understanding of certain content, but this is only a problem for WP to the extent that it fuels anti-social and unconstructive behavior. I don't think that Steeletrap's reference to this issue was inappropriate.]] 23:41, 12 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::::Believe me, I'm not saying that Bink doesn't have his rough edges. (I voted neutral in his RfA...speaking of which, if he were really that incompetent he wouldn't have survived a day at RfA, let alone the whole week.) Yes, he's had problems with edit warring and general combativeness, and he's broken his share of eggs. But at the same time, you two are seeing him through the tinted glasses of your current involvement. If we were to hold an RfC/U today with the question "Is Binksternet competent" the response would be "Yes". But even if he weren't, linking the essay over and over again and continuing to suggest it over and over is uncivil, and unlike the WP:Competence essay, ] is a ]. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 00:10, 13 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::::: ] isn't a pillar, but it ought to be. I see SPECIFICO, Milesmoney, and myself as ] seeking to attune the community to this very important issue. ] (]) |
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{{od}}I don't recall having flashed the link to Bink. I don't understand what you mean by "tinted glasses" here. If you are referring to his repeated, savage, and unsubstantiated personal attacks on me, I don't view that as a "tint" -- it was simply the occasion on which he revealed his behavior to me and various others. I view him as a troll and try to avoid interaction with him. Your conjecture as to what ''might'' have happened at his RfA is just that, personal conjecture. His bad behavior, however is not conjecture. It is fact. ]] 00:25, 13 October 2013 (UTC) |
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: Adjwilley, it's also more than a little ironic that you passionately deny my insinuation that you are defending Bink based on an appeal to authority, and then proceed to defend him by citing the fact that he was considered (and rejected) for admin status, as opposed to specifically citing behavior (by Bink) that other users deemed inappropriate and arguing that it was appropriate.{{Unsigned|Steeletrap}} |
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::Perhaps posting a ] as to ''editor conduct'', would be helpful. – ] (]) 00:43, 13 October 2013 (UTC) |
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:::Srich, you've been told not to post on this talk page. Please strike your remark. ]] 02:06, 13 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::::{{ping|SPECIFICO}} About 2 weeks ago I posted to this page and met no objection. I would think that suggesting an RFC/U to document concerns about Binksternet's conduct was similar to my effort to bring about peace in this corner of the community. – ] (]) 02:24, 13 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::<small>@Steeletrap, I didn't passionately do anything here. <p>@Specifico, by "tinted glasses" I mean that we all view the world around us through the lenses of our own past experiences, beliefs, biases, and frames of reference. You, if I'm not mistaken, are in a heated content dispute with Binksternet, which will affect the way you perceive him and his actions in ways that others can't see. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 01:04, 13 October 2013 (UTC)</small> |
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:::'''@Adjwilley''' I'm not in a content dispute with Binksternet. If you think I'm the only one who sees Binksternet as an uncivil and battleground editor, you should review his history on the Mises Institute-related articles and the associated noticeboards over the past 3 months. As for me, I think that you've seen enough of me recently to know that although I will call a spade a spade, I am not prone to the sort of lapse to which you refer. Thanks. ]] 01:12, 13 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::::I appreciate your candor. My point was that we ''all'' see things through our own lenses, whether we realize it or not. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 01:16, 13 October 2013 (UTC) |
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:::::Got it, Adj. But some things in life are not a close call. Thanks for the responses. ]] 01:26, 13 October 2013 (UTC) |
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==Disambiguation link notification for October 15== |
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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (] | ]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small> |
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It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 11:29, 15 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== PFS edits == |
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I assume you have PFS on your watchlist. If not, please look at the article & its' talkpage. Thanks. – ] (]) 03:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== October 2013 == |
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] ]. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed ] from ]. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the ]. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been ]. Take a look at the ] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-tdel1 --> ''As per my edit summary restoring the template, these tags are indexed for other editors to see and review. Once the issue is discussed, and resolved, then the template can be removed.'' – ] (]) 04:28, 16 October 2013 (UTC) |
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] Hello, I'm ]. I have automatically detected that to ] may have broken the ] by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry: just again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on . |
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:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page: |
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*<nowiki>on the role of race in America led by racialist scientist ] and </nowiki>{{red|''']'''}}<nowiki>.<ref>{{cite web|author=Property and Freedom Society |title=Property and Freedom Society—8th Annual</nowiki> |
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Thanks, <!-- (0, -1, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->] (]) 13:58, 28 October 2013 (UTC) |
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] Hello, I'm ]. I have automatically detected that to ] may have broken the ] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on . |
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:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page: |
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*<nowiki>Wayne State University, holding an M.D. and Ph.D. in Cellular Biology from Case Western University</nowiki>{{red|''')'''}}<nowiki></ref></nowiki> |
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Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->] (]) 21:44, 28 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== ANI notice == |
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] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. – ] (]) 06:02, 16 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== Stalwart's talk page == |
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Feel free to comment on my talk page. I don't know how Stalwart111 feels about having side editor-to-editor discussions going on there. – ] (]) 05:45, 21 October 2013 (UTC) |
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] This is your '''only warning'''; if you make ] on other people again, as you did at ], you may be '''] without further notice'''. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people.<!-- Template:uw-npa4im --> ] (]) 22:31, 23 October 2013 (UTC) |
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: Where is the personal attack? I was criticizing your conduct, not your character. ] (]) 22:34, 23 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::You have now . You can't say things like that at ANI without diffs. And, let me assure you, you are not dealing with an idiot here & so there are no valid diffs. I'm careful.<p>If it wasn't for the fact that it is gone 1 am here, I'd be looking for an admin to block you right now. - ] (]) 00:16, 24 October 2013 (UTC) |
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: False allegations of a PA, lacking any supporting diff/quote (which you make above) are a PA per ]. That is an example of your misconduct I hope you reflect on. If you think I'm engaged in misconduct, all the better reason to push for sanctions so admins scrutinize these pages more closely. ] (]) 00:24, 24 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== LvMI RfC == |
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Steeletrap, if you agree that the off-topic material should be removed, I encourage you to post on the Survey section. (Whoever reviews the RfC will most likely look at the Survey for a picture of what the consensus is rather than the threaded discussion.) Indeed, if you think stuff should stay, please post on Survey in that regard. Thanks. – ] (]) 23:41, 23 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== James Hormel == |
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Good catch on ]. I wish I had seen it earlier. – ] (]) 04:16, 24 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== Fix an edit you made == |
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Please take a second look at this edit . While I disagree as to whether the citation is RS, the citation format needs fixing. ''Can you provide a url?'' (Note: you had bracketed the title of the piece, which caused a redlink. I've removed the brackets.) Thanks. 17:28, 24 October 2013 (UTC) |
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: Could you please fix your signature on your last ANI post, '''and''' recognize that on an admin noticeboard, someone may remove your sub-sectioning as makes sense, and it will NOT violate the talkpage guidelines. Also, in that last edit, you're trying to use the edit summary to communicate to people: don't. An edit summary is a summary of the edit, not a message to someone <span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span> 17:06, 27 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== Section heading on talk pages == |
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Steeletrap, please look at ]. Adding a new subsection is the worst kind of shouting. Why? Because you are not developing a new topic for the thread – you are simply making another point in the discussion. Please look at ], particularly the bulleted comments on Sectioning and Section headings. Please note that I did not change any of the text you provided by "downsizing" the subsection, but that section headings do ''not'' belong to the editor who posted them. Thanks. – ] (]) 17:13, 27 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== Carol == |
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Steele, I appreciate that you are defending MM, but making remarks about another editor, particularly if they involve 4 year old edits, does not AGF. I will urge you, again, to strike the remarks. (I intend to hat the comment on my page very soon.) If I see more such comments, I will post more advisories. In other words, please stop. You are not helping MM or yourself. Thanks. – ] (]) 04:48, 28 October 2013 (UTC) |
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: I made my point and stand by it. It's pointing out a double-standard in her argument. It's no more a personal attack than raising Miles' past conduct. I agree that there is no need to dwell on it, but I'm not going to delete my point, unless an admin that doesn't understand the distinction between an (objective) factual statement and a (subjective) personal attack makes me. You are entitled to hat or delete anything on your talk page, of course. ] (]) 04:52, 28 October 2013 (UTC) |
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::And I have done so. – ] (]) |
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== LRC revert == |
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Steeletrap, the edit was made and the edit summary said see forthcoming comment on talk page. Frankly, I don't know much about the mechanics of General Sanctions (other than that I received a notice – not warning – about closing a notice board discussion). But I fear you are treading on thin ice by reverting the edit without waiting for the discussion to ensue. So I will urge you to revert the change and engage in the discussion. Thanks. – ] (]) 05:09, 29 October 2013 (UTC) |
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: Thanks for the heads-up. Sure, I'll revert my revert. I really don't mind, because this should and will be settled on talk anyway. But I think I was just following BRD by reverting a bold change. Also, why did you receive a warning? ] (]) 05:12, 29 October 2013 (UTC) |
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:: I'll say it again, Bravo for reverting the change. To answer your question, I did '''not''' receive a warning. A ''Notice'' was given about closing a notice board thread. The notice said "it might have been inappropriate" to close an ANI discussion. I'm not disputing the notice at all. If I had, I would have asked "If an administrator had closed the particular thread, would the closure have been inappropriate?" Not worth pursuing. But I do see that the notice has been mischaracterized as a warning. Hmmmmm. – ] (]) 05:50, 29 October 2013 (UTC) |
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== A cupcake for you! == |
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== A cupcake for you! == |
