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Explaining my revert

Just wanted to explain why I reverted this edit to the 'Scandals' section. For a start, it was completely unsourced and unreferenced. Second, it may not be true at all. A quick Google of '"university of kent" paedophile', brings up very little of substance, as does '"university of kent" priest', '"university of kent" priest scandal', or '"Richard Thomas" paedophile'. No news sources reported on the events (as a search on Google News will confirm).

However one site did keep coming up - and was the only result for a search of '"Michael Epps" paedophile'. 'An Open Letter to the Interpol Pedophile Unit matched most of my search terms, and appeared to be written by the same person as the anonymous contributor whose edit I reverted. The open letter is written by William H. Kennedy who runs a site called SphinxRadio.com, a conspiracy theory site.

Curious, I went to check what other contributions our anonymous friend had left. The contributions page was telling...As well as attempting to add the same passage of unsourced material into the scandal section, the IP address has logged several edits to, er, William H. Kennedy.

Anyway, the passage added by 24.147.34.149 should not be included in the article, due to lack of references, speculative, original material, and a failure to pass the Google test. I'll also be paying close attention to William H. Kennedy for any possible violations of the autobiography policy. Nuge talk 18:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Can someone explain just why the Sion Jenkins affair merits a mention here? From what I can see the only connection is that he was claiming a UKC degree. People make false claims about their education all the time and few other pages have this kind of detail on them. Timrollpickering 09:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I am deleting the Jenkins reference. I added the two news stories (Gunn and Jenkins) together, just on the basis that they had been widely circulated and dealt with Kent. Now that you mention it, you are almost certainly right that the Jenkins story has only limited relevance, and since Oxford - for example - doesn't mention Jeffrey Archer or the like - it is probably not right to mention Jenkins in the Kent article. ThomasL 17:21, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Ben, 1) I did not write that Misplaced Pages article on myself and challenge you to prove that I did. I would also like the word "sepulative" removed from your above statement. The word speculative does not appear on my page and I am an established scholar (Huston Smith published one of my articles). Who are you to say what is speculative? That is liabel and I want it off asap. I sue people all the time.

I also question the quality of your research skills. For example:

2) Here are some articles on Rev Richard Thomas which you claim you could not find on Google:

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/print.php?storyid=3352

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/oxfordshire/4501382.stm

3) Here are some articles on Msgr John Ward:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/263542.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/979886.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/983804.stm

4) Rev Richard Thomas was on the UKC Lambeth Conference with the Bishop of Oxford in 1998 and was subsequently on campus many other times:

http://www.oxford.anglican.org/press/richard_thomas.html

5) Msgr John Ward is a Franciscan and regularly stayed at the Franciscan College at UKC which issues UKC degrees: http://www.kent.ac.uk/registry/quality/validation/profiles/FISC/profile.htm

6) You can confirm that the Kent Police investigated pedophilia at UKC by calling Michael Epps at <phone number removed>

I don't beleive u\you googled anything. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.37.116 (talk • contribs) .

I'll answer your response point by point.

First off, may I recommend you register an account, for your own benefit, as well as for clarity reasons when entering into a discussion such as this. And please remember on talk pages to sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~).

Secondly, I must point out that it is against Misplaced Pages policy to make legal threats, and doing so can result in temporary blocking or even banning from editing Misplaced Pages. In the interest of civility I have removed my first use of 'speculative' (referring to your site); however I maintain that the passage you added to this article was speculative, original research.

I assure you that I did Google the terms I mentioned, and the links you provide I fully accept as valid references. However, with the exception of the last link, none of the links you provide mention 'kent' or 'ukc' at all. Therefore, to me, they seem pretty irrelevant to this article. The final link, from the UKC website, mentions none of the accused priests.

The kind of accusations you have made must be backed up with direct references from reliable sources. As of yet, no references backing up what you claim have been provided. (The phone number of someone involved in the incident does not count as a reference.) If no verifiable connection can be made between the people you mention and UKC, then any mention of them on this article should be removed, and any discussion considered irrelevant.

Finally, I never claimed that you started the article about yourself. What I said was that your IP address "logged several edits" to William H. Kennedy. I fully accept that another user started the article; however you have edited it eight times, and Misplaced Pages policy discourages any form of autobiographical editing.

I hope you are beginning to understand why the passage that I removed does not belong on Misplaced Pages. Nuge talk 23:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Ben, I did edit mistakes on the Misplaced Pages page with my name on it and am in violation of the offences and will remove myself from Wikpedia altogether. I attempted to remove the entry with my name on it (William H. Kennedy) but was unable to do so and strongly request you remove it asap. You have the justification that I admitted to policy violations. I do not want a replacement article on me in Misplaced Pages and will take legal action if you post one or allow others to post one.

I do not want a Misplaced Pages entry with my name on it because I feel you are a pro-pedophile creep for the following reasons:

I originially had referenced material with footnotes which someone kept removing. You check the Misplaced Pages log for that page and don't claim you do not have it. You will see my posts and someone elses removal - you can't deny it. I left the references out to see what would happen. I suspected Misplaced Pages would contact me.

I suspect it was you who removed the posts I made with the references and are now playing some sick game. I would need to see the log of the page myself. All of the articles I sent you were on the UKC posts I originally made including others like this with the following article where Michael Epps admitts to knowledge of the illegal drug trade:

http://www.geocities.com/mattdebald/hash.htm

Someone removed them and I think it was you. Someone also removed the link to the sound recording of Michael Epps admitting to being investigated by the Kent Police and other sources placing Ward and Thomas on the campus.

You can hear the rest of what I think of you on The Byte Radio Show Tuesday 6/6/06 (go to http://www.thebyteshow.com/Library.html to hear the show. I will also go on many other shows to complain about your pro-Pedophile actions. Here is an archive of the shows I have been on and will go back on all of them to expose you:

http://www.williamhkennedy.com/radio.html

I can reach about 30 million people in a month.

No Wikpedia policy can stop me as I am no longer affilated with this site and do not want anything to do with you except to expose you as pro-pedophile creep. Be Sure to Listen in! Bill —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.37.116 (talk • contribs) .

Comment: Can you stop leaving your comments address to Ben when you are responding to someone who was not me, those comments are accusing me (I'm presuming you used my name simply because I spoke with you on your talk page and you remember the name) of things I have not done. I'm sorry but I still fail to see how the edits of Michael Epps and possible paedophilia is in anyway connected to UKC. UKC as an institution had no involvement whatsoever in any of this and thus it is irrelevant to this page. The only connection to UKC is that Michael Epps works there and some priests visited there, that does not bring ill-repute on UKC itself and thus I cannot personally see why those comments need to be on the University of Kent article. Sure if Michael Epps had an article himself then fine, but putting it on the UKC article is not right as it has nothing to do with it as an institution. Ben W Bell talk 07:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Bill: I resent the outrageous (and a little ridiculous) suggestion that I am a "pro-pedophile creep" and that I am playing a "sick game". You appear to be able to make this charge on the basis of an edit to a website...It seems rather bitter to take a seemingly minor dispute to a (claimed) crowd of 30 million, but I can't stop you. However, whilst you are on Misplaced Pages you must adhere to policy and your name-calling constitutes a personal attack - please read Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks.

The edit log for every article is publically available for every article and talk page under the 'history' tab (next to the edit tab at the top of the page). If you looked at the bottom of the first history page you would find that I did not remove your links. But a page hosted at Geocities is not nearly as reliable a source as one from BBC News, so if I saw it on the article, I probably would have removed it, as per Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources, where it says: "Misplaced Pages articles should use reliable published sources...bear in mind that edits for which no reliable references are provided may be removed by any editor."

Please do not make the mistake of thinking I am personally interested or invested in you or the content of your contributions. You seem to be under the impression that I am on some sort of vendetta, a grand battle even; I am actually only concerned in removing unreferenced material to uphold the policies of this website.

If you want the article about you deleted, then you must list it at Misplaced Pages:Articles for Deletion - follow the steps at AfD in 3 steps and include valid reasons for deletion.

I look forward to listening to your radio show tomorrow.  ;) Nuge talk 22:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

This reply is to Ben: You are a graduate of UKC and are bias and have no business editing and article about them. Are you on their payroll? Your own web profile says you are a graduate of UKC so you are BIAS!

This reply is to Nudge If you add up the bigger shows I am a guest on "X" Zone, Rick Barber Show, Michael Holliday Show - I can actually reach an audience of over 30 million in about a month - all added up. Take a look at my radio page:

http://www.williamhkennedy.com/radio.html

What shows are you on and what are your stats? How many millions do you reach?

I will not even mention you on these shows - I am going to focus on Ben W. Bell the UKC PLANT! Check out Ben's profile: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Ben_W_Bell

Is there an ombudsmen I can report this abuse to? Forget that question. I will address this matter on The Byte Show.

Yes I attended UKC. So what, what does that have to do with the price of eggs? No I'm not employed by UKC and wouldn't want to be as I honestly think that as a university it isn't that good, but that's my opinion. If you bothered to look at my edits (and every single one of my edits is publically available) you'll find I'm doing nothing malicious. Each and every edit I have made to this and every article can be viewed and you'll find that all I have done was roll back edits from the IP address 24.147.37.116 that put up unreferenced claims. If firm evidence is available to support those claims then I have no problems with them, and in fact I care not for the claims either way other than as a possible source of libel against Misplaced Pages if they are unreferenced which they were in each and every instance that I removed. In fact every comment I have made to you (which can be checked through my contributions and history) was solely to request references to these matters. So, bearing that in mind and the fact that any person in the world can see exactly what I have done to this article I will be very interested to listen to your show tomorrow. Ben W Bell talk 06:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Bill, I think you'll find (if you looked closely at my user page) that I am currently a 19-year-old undergraduate student at UKC myself, but this doesn't change anything. There are no policies or guidelines against writing about the institution you attend; if anything Ben and I are more qualified than most to edit the UKC article. What's more, I'm unlikely to be biased in favour of a University that has plunged me into several years of thousands of pounds of debt and is currently not marking my exams.

Of course I don't have even a shred of the listenership you claim to have - I'm a student. I don't even own a working radio. Your continued efforts to comment on the contributor as opposed to the content means I am considering taking this to WP:RFC. Nuge talk 12:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC

Hi All, Kennedy has a point. Some of his referenced postings were removed - I read them. The fact that you are a graduate of the school and another is a student does suggest bias but does not prove it. Another point is whether any of those priests were at the University of Kent. If they were and the university knew it, that makes it a whole different ball game. Perhaps mediation is need here. Has anyone appealed to Misplaced Pages mediation? Just some thoughts, L.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.61.58.198 (talk • contribs) .

I'm a little suspicious of your comment, because you have added the passage in question a couple of times, after it was reverted with discussion on the talk page. Also, I checked on IP Address locator and your IP address matches the same US state as William Kennedy, leading me to believe you are either a sockpuppet of his or a mate helping out.

Nonetheless, as I've tried to explain, the passage I removed was totally unreferenced. The passage others removed used unreliable sources, and even then, Misplaced Pages is not a collection of unverifiable speculation.

I have not seen one shred of reliable, verifiable evidence that any of the priests mentioned were on the campus at any point, therefore there is no reason that the article should mention them. Nuge talk 20:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey I 'm WHK'S Mate and how about this. The Bishop of Oxford was at the Lambeth Con 1998 which is held at U OF Kent. :http://justus.anglican.org/resources/Lambeth1998/lambeth.html

Richard Thomas was his communications chief and that means he would have been at U OF Kent at Lambeth 98. http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/print.php?storyid=3352

All the bishops bought their communications chiefs with them and that puts Thomas on campus for two weeks in 98.

Seeing that pedophiles molest kids weekly it is not beyond the pail to say kids at U of Kent were molested: http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/163390.pdf#search='Child%20Molesters%20frequency'

These are some fair jumps. Steve

Um hold on. You're basing this on the fact that known paedophiles attended conferences at UKC and thus they probably molested kids while there because they molest kids weekly? That's an incredibly sweeping statement, how do you know all paedophiles molest kids on a weekly basis? Also what kids? You do know that UKC is a university and that everyone on campus is well above the age of consent, in practically every country in the world? There are no children at UKC. Ben W Bell talk 07:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Gang, The university has a child care centre at Keynes Hall which is situated directly accross from the Franciscan College.

http://www.kent.ac.uk/equalityanddiversity/worklife-balance/childstaff.htm

There were also loads of children at The Lambeth Conference who were families of bishops, reporters et al. There was also a huge fire works show in which 1000s of people especially kids were present. So your assertion that "There are no children at UKC." is a wrong. You graduated from there and you must know this which makes you a liar.

This discussion needs mediation. Ben W. Bell is bias in favor of the university and will not allow anything negative to be printed about the uni on the Misplaced Pages Page. For all we know BWB is Michael Epps. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.61.58.198 (talk • contribs) .

Ben is not a liar, please do not call him one (WP:NPA again) - there are, technically, no children at UKC, it being a university. The enclosed nursery at Keynes is mainly for staff and students during term time. Yes, there may well have been children on campus at the time, but even then you're still making a hugely assumptive and conjectural leap there, which Misplaced Pages is not the place for.

I can also assure you that Ben is not Michael Epps, having met Ben in person earlier today, and that Ben (as I do) only wants to keep things to a NPOV. This link provides a list of every edit ever made to the UKC article; I challenge you to find one edit of Ben's that suggests a bias.

This discussion is not really achieving anything; I'm going to take it to WP:RFC and try to gain some kind of consensus. Nuge talk 16:13, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

This page is now listed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Society, law, and sex. Nuge talk 16:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

How about the time Ben made a personal attack against me and said my page was a "speculative conspiracy page".

First you said that there were no pedophile priests at UKC and then we proved their was one. Next you claimed that were no children at UKC - and we proved there were. I will not take your word for anything - I don't know who you are or if you met Ben. If you did meet than that means Ben is living near UKC and may be employed there or associates there. You two will not allow any negative messages about the university to be posted and I demand mediation.

I want mediators to look into this and to remove you bias people from this editing job.

P.S. I just posted this "Rev Richard Thomas - on trial for downloading child pornography - was present on the UKC campus in 1998. " If anyone removes this I will file for mediation. If it isleft up I will not.

In fact I am so busy with my new e-book (sold over 2000 copies in 3 weeks!) if "Rev Richard Thomas - on trial for downloading child pornography - was present on the UKC campus in 1998. " is left on I will drop the whole matter.

WHK, please stop adding this pointless subtrivia to Misplaced Pages. It will continue to be (rightly) removed and will merely serve to provoke edit warring. "Rev Richard Thomas - on trial for downloading child pornography - was present on the UKC campus in 1998." So what? He has undoubtedly been present in many places in Britain and the world over his lifetime, many of them with far more children around than a university has. Why is the fact he was at UKC eight years ago relevant to anything whatsoever? Hitler visited lots of places during his life too. So did most other criminals (not that Thomas even technically is one unless proven guilty). The fact that someone is present in a particular place is utterly uninteresting and irrelevant unless they do something significant while they are there. If you have a vendetta against the University of Kent, this is not the place to air it; if you do not have, there is no reason for you to be adding this subtrivia anyway. Please cease. This is not improving Misplaced Pages in any way, shape or form.

And before you make any accusations against me (as you seem wont to do to anyone who criticises you), I freely admit that I too am a UKC graduate. This too is utterly irrelevant. I should also point out that you have been in violation of the no personal attacks policy a number of times already (e.g. accusing people of being "pro-paedophiles" and liars simply because they disagree with you and threatening legal action). This is not acceptable behaviour. Please stop it immediately. -- Necrothesp 13:13, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi I called Ben W Bell a liar not WHK - read your post signatures more closily. That's poor Misplaced Pages standards. You are accusing WHK of something he did not do and that is flaming!

The very word trivia suggests "pointlessness". The fact that the university was built on top of a train tunnel and that Bertrand Russell had sex with some official constitutes "pointless subtrivia." So why not the fact that Rev Richard Thomas was there for two weeks not be posted - that is unfair. I put the post back in and will continue to do so no matter what WHK does. It does not say Thomas molested any kids there it just says he was there which is a fact. Another UKC affiliated blogger is not needed here - neutral third party mediation is needed as I have said! Who died and made UKC people boss? Lisa H.

Russell's activity deserves mention, not least because it meant that meant the college was not named after him (which would have given a better balance to the names - only one scientist, a writer, an economist and philosopher rather than having two scientists). Here it is a relevant side point about the University because it determined the naming. The train tunnel is even more relevant both for obscure "facts about the campus" and that it did cause fairly major problems for the university. Both are notable for the University - the criteria for inclusion. Pretty much all the trivia relates firstly to the University.

By contrast Richard Thomas (who wasn't really "at the University" - that implies he was enrolled or at the very least studying - but rather happened to attend a conference held on site due more to the availability of facilities than anything else) once being around on the site is in no way a notable fact about UKC. It has no place on the article and people will continue to remove it because of that. Timrollpickering 14:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see, so it's ok if you call someone a liar is it? Glad I know that now! As Timrollpickering says, the fact that the university was built over a railway tunnel and that Darwin College was originally going to be named after Bertrand Russell (since you've just misrepresented what the article actually says) are interesting facts. However, many thousands of people have visited UKC, yet you (and/or WHK - let's for the sake of fairness assume you're not a sockpuppet for the time being) choose to single out one person who hasn't been proved to have done anything interesting there whatsoever. Why is it any more relevant to the article than saying any of us were there? Answer: It isn't! It is indeed pointless subtrivia and you haven't provided any reason why it is anything else.

Blogger? No, you've lost me. I'm not a blogger. I think you must be confusing me with someone else. You seem to also have the bizarre belief that we are in some way biased because we're UKC graduates. Or are we biased because we don't agree with you? Somehow I suspect that's closer to the truth. As far as mediation is concerned, fine. I don't think you'll find it will bother anyone else here for obvious reasons. -- Necrothesp 14:32, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

University of Kent Sockpuppets should not be allowed to dominate the UofK Wukipedia listing - its not right! WHK put back the things about Michael Epps

Note: If you do not know what the term "sock puppet" means, do not use it. We are all blatantly different people, we have all gone to the trouble of registering and have user pages and contributions lists showing very different interests, two of us are admininstrators, we are therefore obviously not sockpuppets. -- Necrothesp 15:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Fans, I guess there is no more I can do. You people are pro-pedophile tin gods. To be honest this little page is nothing really. I reach huge numbers of people on radio and will continue to expose Epps and the UKC pedophiles. I can even do this on Misplaced Pages on different pages over time. There are so many pages here that the odds of you guys finding my posts are astronomical. I have already exposed Epps on other pages under a different moniker and ISP address.

I suppose the sad loosers here will actually look for them! Really pathetic lot here! You Got Ben who has nothing better to do than correct geographical references pathetic! You got that other kid who is about to be ousted from UKC - drop out looser! You guys are not even worth mentioning on the radio. Here is a link to the Jan 6, 2006 interview I did on this subject:

http://www.4acloserlook.com/january%202006.html

So long you little nobodies - I got books to sell and radio to do. 24.147.37.116 00:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC)WHK

Dear Friends,

I have been trying to edit this page for sometime but a Police Officer who goes under the moniker of Necrothesp keeps deleting my posts. I feel this is in retaliation for my article on Operation Ore: http://www.geocities.com/truthseekerfinder/operation_ore.htm which exposes police pedophilia.

He did not directly identify himself as a police man and I will be pressing harassment charges with the internal affairs officer of his division in England. This is a blatant case of police harassment. 24.147.37.116 01:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC) William H. Kennedy

Anyone Else who wishes to complain can do so. Here is the contact info in the UK:

Call Centre: 9.00am - 5.00pm 08453 002 002 (press 1 at prompt)

Mincom: 0207 404 0431

or email us enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk