Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical): Difference between revisions

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	I noticed for a while now that when you click on an SVG file, there is no longer a PNG viewer. I don't know if that is considered a bug, an error, or a issue there having with that. ] 15:30, 9 December 2013 (UTC)		I noticed for a while now that when you click on an SVG file, there is no longer a PNG viewer. I don't know if that is considered a bug, an error, or a issue there having with that. ] 15:30, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

			== ] ==

			<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr">
			Latest ''']''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. ] are available.

			This newsletter is now posted using ].

			'''New features'''
			* The ] feature was added to all wikis. It creates metadata information about multimedia files (like their license) that can be read automatically by computer programs. It not only works for Commons, but for all wikis, and you can use it for files on your wiki by ] used to describe metadata.
			* ] code used on Wikimedia sites is now ] on your computer to load faster.

			''']'''
			* You can now paste formatted content copied from external sources (not just as plain text) into VisualEditor; this includes copy/pasting from other VisualEditor windows.
			* You can now open VisualEditor by adding <code>?veaction=edit</code> to the page URL, regardless of your user preferences.
			* Many bugs have been fixed, and VisualEditor should also look faster, for example when you save a page.

			'''Problems'''
			* Due to issues, the new search tool ("]") was recently removed from wikis where it was enabled, then added again.

			'''Future'''
			* ] was added to test wikis on December 5. It will arrive to non-Misplaced Pages wikis on December 10 and all Misplaced Pages wikis on December 12 (]).
			* The old Etherpad tool (replaced by a ) will be removed on December 30, 2013. You can still save old pads before that date using the old address: https://etherpad-old.wikimedia.org.

			''''']''' prepared by ] and posted by ] • ] • ] • ] • ] • ].''
			</div> 16:10, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Clickable button is broken

The clickable button templates, {{clickable button}} and {{clickable button 2}}, among others, have been broken for a few weeks. I assume this was due to a css or js change or the like. Compare the working buttons on Commons: commons:Template:Clickable_button. Anyone know how to fix these?--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 15:44, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

I assume you're referring to the lack of "button" styling? Interestingly enough, makes the buttons there render correctly, but they are unstyled when not in edit mode. Chris857 (talk) 15:49, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes. And I just noticed the same thing, that they show up correctly in previews.--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 16:07, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

They currently work for me in all tested situations. There is a previous discussion at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)/Archive 120#Dark blue over the word "wikicode" to the point where I can hardly see it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:41, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

jQuery.ui is no longer loaded by default. See Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)/Archive 119#jQuery UI CSS may no longer load by default and linked mailing list post. Anomie ⚔ 16:50, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that's helpful. Is there a fix, or are we just stuck waiting until the switchover is complete? (Or do we just need to deprecate these buttons?)--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 20:01, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Well we can fix them. But it adds again to the stack of javascript. So I guess the question is: Why do we need them with this styling ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 20:41, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I'd think having transclusion counts of 869 and 76,859 respectively would be enough of a reason to make sure these templates are working and continue to be supported, no? Technical 13 (talk) 21:01, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Why use JavaScript? It can be done with CSS alone. CSS is generally less of a burden for browsers then JS, and works for people who have JS disabled. CSS pseudo-classes can be used in MediaWiki:Common.css, which allow for different formatting when the user hovers over the button (:hover), clicks on the button (:active), or gives the button keyboard focus (:focus). – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:17, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Well sort of my point. They no longer work, because jquery-ui is no longer needed by the core on every single page (and getting rid of unneeded dependencies is a good thing). So to bring them back, you either need to load all that CSS again (either all the time, or with JS only when there are buttons on the pages), or you decouple them from jquery-ui and implement some 'light' CSS on en.wp that doesn't have so much overhead and provides similar functionality. I'm not sure where these buttons are used, which contexts, which users, so it's a bit tough to call for me. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 18:50, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

I am unsure why the two templates aren't merged into one easy to use with advanced features template. I really don't care how they are supported and work, and even as a TE I don't have access to modify MediaWiki: namespace stuff, especially Common.* (which I would expect that even if MediaWiki: was added to something the could be edited by TE's in general would be fully protected anyways). So, what I'm thinking is, if you can get consensus to make {{Clickable button}} (with or without {{Clickable button 2}} merged into it) work with css in the MediaWiki:Common.css then go for it. Technical 13 (talk) 02:35, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I noticed that the buttons look fine on User:TheJJJunk, but not on User:GoingBatty. I'm using FF25. GoingBatty (talk) 02:35, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: They look fine to me on both our pages. Maybe this got fixed by the time I saw this. — TheJJJunk 15:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

It works on both of those pages for me as well, but not on many others (for example, {{welcome student}}). It just depends on whether something else on the page causes the required code to be loaded, I guess.--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 15:15, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, the button on that page appears correctly for me as well. Even before it was switched to clicakablebutton 2. I tried adding a button on my sandbox, and that also displays correctly. I must be special. Or I have a user preference set or a script that activates it? — TheJJJunk 15:37, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm guessing what people seem to be experiencing where some buttons seem to work for some but not others is due to caching issues (at least we are going to blame it on that because it makes such a good scapegoat). Try BYPASSing and see if they still don't seem right. Technical 13 (talk) 16:28, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I've bypassed and cleared my caches on FF25 and IE10, and User:GoingBatty still doesn't show clickable buttons for me. :-( GoingBatty (talk) 01:42, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I've tried another computer with IE8, and I don't see the clickable buttons whether I'm logged in to WP or not. GoingBatty (talk) 14:17, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

It seems much more likely to me that the reason people see different results, is because they have different gadgets/scripts enabled, which might be loading the code that the clickable button requires. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:12, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

The buttons work for me, so I logged out, and they didn't work. When logged in, I commented out all my imported scripts and blanked my .css page, and the buttons still worked. Gadgets then? — TheJJJunk 15:22, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

@TheJJJunk: Do you mind sharing what gadgets you have enabled? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 16:02, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

These are all of the options I have enabled in the Gadgets section of my Preferences:

After rolling back an edit, automatically open the contributions of the user whose edit has been rolled back
Open external links in a new tab/window
Twinkle
"Ask a question" feature for the Wikimedia Foundation's "Teahouse" project
Reference Tooltips
Citation expander
HotCat, not checked in the gadgets, but imported through a script
Form for filing disputes at the dispute resolution noticeboard
CharInsert
Add an link for the lead section of a page
Add a "Sandbox" link to the personal toolbar area.
Display diffs with the old yellow/green colors and design.

If you want to go through the scripts I have included as well, I have some on my common.js and vector.js I think. — TheJJJunk 17:51, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Aha - enabling Twinkle fixes the clickable button, and disabling breaks it again. Anyway to have the button work without using Twinkle? I also noticed that with Twinkle disabled, the buttons don't appear when I'm reading User:GoingBatty, but they do appear in edit preview mode. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 00:03, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

As Anomie said way up, jquery.ui is no longer loaded by default, and the button relies on some of its styles.
Unsurprisingly activating a gadget that requires jquery.ui (like Twinkle) will make the styles available, and I assume the editing toolbar also uses jquery.ui which explains why it happens to work there.
Amalthea 10:13, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Since we weren't getting anywhere, i've proposed to add the most efficient loader that I could come up with to fix this problem. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:12, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I have a potential solution here. Kaldari (talk) 19:20, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you! Today I see the buttons just fine on User talk:ChrisGualtieri, but still don't see them on User:GoingBatty. GoingBatty (talk) 03:13, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Reference problem

It used to be that you could click on a "^" next to a reference and it would direct you back up to where the citation is from in the text. Those carets have disappeared, at least for me. Was there a change recently? --Coemgenus (talk) 22:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

You didn't give an example so I don't know whether you are looking at an article using another reference system, but I see "^" at for example Thomas F. Bayard#References. If a reference is used more than once then "^" is not a link. Instead there are letters linking to each use. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:20, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

OK, it must be a problem on my end somehow, because that article isn't working for me. I held CTRL and hit reload and they appeared for a second, then vanished. Using Chrome browser. --Coemgenus (talk) 22:23, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

All right, it came back when I disabled the "Near this page" beta feature. That's a bug, I guess. Is there someplace I should report it? --Coemgenus (talk) 22:29, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Bugs should be reported at mw:Talk:Beta Features/Nearby Pages. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 22:42, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

According to mw:Talk:Beta Features/Nearby Pages#Disrupts footnote linking from reflist to article footnotes there is already a fix in gerrit:97143 but I guess it hasn't been deployed yet. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:28, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Links next to citations in reflist

I'm guessing that this problem is related to "Reference problem" up above, but that section is too vague for me to be sure. As long as I can remember, the reflist has had a ^ next to each number, which when clicked takes the reader to the spot where that citation is referenced; or when <ref name=whatever> and <ref name=whatever /> are used, we get a series of letters (a, b, etc.), each of which will take the reader to the reference spot when clicked. Within this month (seemingly in the last week or two) these have disappeared without warning or explanation; any idea what's going on? It's plainly a skin problem: these letters are missing when I view pages in Monobook with Firefox 25.0.1 and with IE 8, but when I use Vector, both browsers display the links properly. Nyttend (talk) 01:45, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Have you enabled "Near this page" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures? If so, does it help to disable it? PrimeHunter (talk) 02:23, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I've never checked the beta features, given the mess they made of removing the orange bar. I was completely unaware that the "Near this page" even existed, so no, I've not enabled it. Nyttend (talk) 17:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I forgot to specify that for the same period of time I've been having what otherwise would seem to be an unrelated problem. Whenever I go to a category with subcategories, I've traditionally been able to find the sub-subcategories by clicking the little arrow next to the name of the subcategory. However, for the last week or two, clicking the little arrow always produces a message of "Problem loading data. Please wait a moment and try again." The second sentence is a link that effectively refreshes the category page. Has anyone else witnessed such a problem? Nyttend (talk) 17:55, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

What happens if you log out and view https://en.wikipedia.org/Thomas_F._Bayard?useskin=monobook#References and https://en.wikipedia.org/Thomas_F._Bayard?useskin=vector#References? In Firefox 25.0.1 I see ^ in both MonoBook and Vector, both logged in and out. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:35, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I see everything properly when logged out, and when I view them in Vector while logged in, things are just as wrong as when I'm in Monobook. I didn't feel like switching skins just for this, so I'd been logging out before in order to use Vector; I never knew about the ?useskin thing. Time to check my preferences, I guess. Thanks for diagnosing it! Nyttend (talk) 14:11, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Reference backlinks

Reference backlinks are missing:

Markup	Renders as
This is page content.<ref>LibreOffice For Starters, First Edition, Flexible Minds, Manchester, 2002, p. 18</ref> {{reflist}}	This is page content. LibreOffice For Starters, First Edition, Flexible Minds, Manchester, 2002, p. 18

Markup

Renders as

This is page content.<ref>LibreOffice For Starters, First Edition, Flexible Minds, Manchester, 2002, p. 18</ref>
{{reflist}}

This is page content.

LibreOffice For Starters, First Edition, Flexible Minds, Manchester, 2002, p. 18

-- Gadget850 01:17, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

I see the backlink in your example and in articles but I guess you have the issue in #Reference problem. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:50, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Toolserver seriously funked up

Replication lag is now at over three weeks and counting. Any assistance with this problem would be much appreciated. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 01:29, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

WMF+WMDE have chosen to axe the Toolserver, so most people have given up and don't care. You can use Labs: . Legoktm (talk) 06:26, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 15:06, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Would it be possible to add a notice to the old version, so people know?--S Philbrick (Talk) 17:41, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Actually, before tool server dies, we intend to turn it into a redirect page to let everyone know to change their links to point to labs.—cyberpower _Online 14:04, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

And has anyone else noticed that X!'s editcount tool on labs hasn't been accessible for a couple of days? Jared Preston (talk) 16:42, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I haven't been able to access it recently either... DavidLeighEllis (talk) 21:51, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

The counter seems to be up and running now. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

"Inventory pages" to keep track of every cleanup template for each WikiProject on Misplaced Pages

Hello all. I have outlined an idea at m:Grants:IEG/Automated inventory pages for all WikiProjects. The gist of the idea is this: a nice page, inspired off of the wikiHow model, should exist for each WikiProject, in order to keep track of all cleanup templates. In hindsight, I shouldn't have applied for the grant without already having technical expertise lined up, but I've been convinced this is a good idea for all WikiProjects for almost 18 months now. Does anyone with technical expertise think they might like to be hired to work on this project? I need to find technical assistance for the idea to succeed. I will likely re-submit the grant in the beginning of 2014. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 15:19, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Biosthmors Like what I was trying to do at Template:Page reports? If I had better on wiki support there wouldn't be a need for the grant and I could have it operational within 14 days. Werieth (talk) 15:25, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for working towards this Werieth. I'm OK with whatever it takes to get the job done. =) Is this tracked in Bugzilla? I know User:Ragesoss is good with templates. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 15:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
  - It has nothing to do with bugzilla. It would be a bot. Getting that functionality into Mediawiki and wikipedia wont happen, those types of requests are too resource intensive. Werieth (talk) 15:35, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
    - Werieth, the WP:Teahouse happened, and I heard it used some Java. What about that route? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:07, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
    - User:Jtmorgan mentioned that to me, if I remember correctly. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:12, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
      - Teahouse uses JavaScript for the most part. Don't worry about the technical aspects, I can implement the features you want and more. Take a look at what I was trying to do at Template talk:Page reports. If you can develop and implement the on wiki part, getting the backend is easy. Werieth (talk) 16:19, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
        @Werieth: Can you give me a brief summary of what on-wiki work needs doing? I'm getting information overload from that talk page. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour 08:49, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
        @Mr. Stradivarius on tour: basically we need to define a template, and the associated parameters that go with it in order to get the data that you want. Take User:Werieth/Request as an example. There is a non-visible template at the top, which basically creates a list of all articles in WP:MED and Category:All articles lacking sources (AKA all unsourced articles within the wikiproject) Given the flexibility that I envisioned we could create reports that enabled us to filter a list of pages on basically any of a multiple set of criteria. I can easily handle the parsing/generating the datasets, However getting it setup on wiki, defining what reports should be created and where those reports should be saved to, along with any other associated information that might be needed. Werieth (talk) 03:01, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

User:Mr. Stradivarius on tour, any ideas? Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 01:44, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

FWIW, this pretty much already exists (but without all the prettification wikihow uses) as something maintained by Svick. See User:Svick/WikiProject cleanup listing. Example: WP:HOCKEY. Resolute 04:37, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
- Holy smokes that's useful. Thank you for pointing it. The fact that the data is also downloadable as CSV and the source code is available makes the prospect of building an automated dashboard of some kind much easier. FWIW, I don't think anyone working at WMF is going to jump on developing this immediately, but we're supportive of providing better data to editors about which articles need help in certain topic areas. From our perspective, it's not just about helping WikiProjects. Having good data available about which articles need what, segmented by WikiProjects/topics, might help us build a system that directs newbies to help out in an area they're interested in. Steven Walling (WMF) • talk 06:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
  - I agree. I've had to argue pretty loudly in the past about the value of project-specific lists such as this. The unsourced BLP gongshow in 2010 was a prime example of just how well it works. Reso lute 20:53, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Displaying a part of the table

I recently removed an outdated portion of a sporting standings table, by the updated but full table. Given that there are 20 teams in a league, the table is displayed in either of two ways -

Display a portion of the table (Say only top 5 teams) in the relevant article, which looks better, but requires being updated at 20 locations
Display the entire list in every article, making it unecessarily long, but requiring update at a single location.

Considering these two alternatives, I wonder if there is any way to re-organise this current format sere is a way to transclude the full list to display only the relevant portions of a table, using some set parameters? (For example, if the parameters are 1 and 5, then only the top 5 clubs are shown)? I think a hack like that could be useful for usage in many more sporting articles.

In short, all I want is a possible way to display {{2013–14 Premier League table}} so that only a portion of the table is shown, based on how you call the template. Is it possible?

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 23:42, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to TheOriginalSoni for inviting me to this discussion. I agree that the best solution would be a centrally updated template with the ability to only show certain sections of the table when the focus of the article is a specific team; after all, there is no point showing the teams at the bottom when the focus is on the top. I would love to know if this is possible, although I'm sure it would take such intricate coding that it may not be worth making such a template when it would need updating every few days (and therefore more chance of breaking the template). – Pee Jay 02:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I made a test at {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox}} with code choosing which rows to display based on the already passed team parameter, so the season articles don't have to be updated when the team positions change. I had problems controlling pipes and newlines so the source isn't pretty. Here is how it looks with the parameter team=ALL:

Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox

With team=ARS:

Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox

With team=MNU:

Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox

With team=CPA:

Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox

You control which rows to display for each team by adding its 3-letter code to a switch statement for each of those rows. When team positions change, those codes have to be manually swapped around in the template. You can choose to display more than 3 rows by adding the team code to more rows. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:41, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

PrimeHunter, The formatting of this truncated table is exactly how I expected it to be.

I also created a subpage at {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox/1}} with the text "Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox/1" which I intended to replace at the code's switch expressions. You can see I've replaced one instance of ARS in the code to see that it works.

This way the places do not have to be replace everywhere on the table, making it less likely to break the code, albeit more clumsy. Also, whenever teams change positions, the respective subpages would have to be altered to have the correct rankings.

While this code works, I was kindof hoping for a less hacky of a way. Is there any way to do that?

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 06:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

As one (of very few) editing this template so far, I must say I really like this idea of having this table. A reason for having it is to have something that is continuosly updated, which do not happen on all club articles. To make it only show parts would be fantastic, then it would be better for each of the articles. If/when this is done some visual things maybe can be done (yellow color of team unneccesary?) to make it look even better.

My only concern is that it can not be to complicated to update, since that makes a bigger risk for errors. Today a lot of IP edit league table and if we should use it even on the main PL article with team=ALL then there could possibly be a lot of correcting to do. The more articles it is used in, the more editors will try and edit it. But in total I am very positive and I have tried editing in the sandbox above (just show preview, never saved it) and to me it is not that hard updating it, but I could imagine other editors "forgetting" to update the parameters of which rows to be shown. QED237 (talk) 12:03, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

User:PrimeHunter, I love you. This is exactly what I was expecting. Now to sort out some minor user-friendliness issues and it'll be perfect! – Pee Jay 12:08, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. 20 subtemplates like {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox/1}} for team positions would be impractical. I have changed {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox}} to get all 20 teams from {{2013–14 Premier League table/p}} by supplying a parameter for the position. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Looks good to go. Great work, PrimeHunter.

Could we use another less obstrusive colour, like #F5D44E to highlight? TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Might I suggest writing this in Lua? By moving it to Lua you could just input the wins, draws, losses, goals for, and goals against for each team, and then the template could automatically calculate the matches played, the goal difference, and the points. It could also automatically update each team's position in the table, and you could also pass a parameter to limit the number of entries. All the complicated bits could be put in the module, and the template invocation would look something like this:

{{#invoke:league table|premier
|limit = 5
|team1 = ]
|team1_wins = 10
|team1_draws = 1
|team1_losses = 2
|team1_for = 27
|team1_against = 10
|team2 = ]
|team2_wins = 8
|team2_draws = 3
|team2_losses = 2
|team2_for = 24
|team2_against = 11
...
}}

If there's any interest in this, I can try and code something up tomorrow. — Mr. Stradivarius 14:08, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Mr Stradivarius, that sounds great. I'd like to see how that would look. – Pee Jay 14:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't edit league tables but it sounds great. You may need more parameters for a general module. Some leagues can give punishments where points are deducted from a team (they can even have a negative number of points). Automatic computation of positions would give complications with some tie rules like La Liga#Competition format. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Okay so now there has been no edits for a while, what is the next step? Is there something more to be done? Should I we go to WT:FOOTY to find consensus for instering it on the team articles? QED237 (talk) 00:02, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

/UserProfileIntro subpages

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T59748

As you can see at this "everything" search of WP () certain new users are creating their new user pages in a subpage of their user at /UserProfileIntro. I've randomly checked a few of the pages and they were all created with the following summary: (Updating user profile introduction) (Tag: Mobile edit). November 22, 2013 is the oldest user account where this has happened, and there have been scattered instances since. I did a little Google searching and found the phrase UserProfileIntro in a script that was being developed for the mobile users. I submitted a bug report (now closed/deleted) at Bugzilla and was left a stern message that said "Closing this bug - this feature works as intended. If you have problems with it, please open a more specific bug." I'm fairly certain that new users shouldn't be directed to create their user page in a subdirectory, and that whatever is causing this is not right.

Am I nuts, or is this really a problem. If it is, can someone notify the proper people about it. I failed in that area. Thanks. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 02:30, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Apparently the mobile people are "reinventing" user pages just for mobile. How strange. Anomie ⚔ 03:20, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Yep, that looks odd. Most of the User pages are non-existent, but there is content at the User:XXXX/UserProfileIntro page that would typically appear on the User page. Is there someone reading this page who can explain how/why this behavior counts as "works as intended"? Alternatively, is there someone here who has enough pull on Bugzilla to open this as a bug and not have it closed summarily? It doesn't seem consistent with how things have typically been done around here, but maybe there is some grand plan of which we have not been made aware. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:46, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Jdlrobson, do you know about this? — This, that and the other (talk) 10:54, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

This is a controlled experiment in beta to explore ways that we can in future encourage people to edit their user pages via smaller micro contributions. For the time being we want to see if people would fill these in and what kind of things they would say. We did not want to pollute user pages with this so we created it as a sub page. Let us know if you want to mark them in a way to make your lives easier or to make it clearer this is an experiment. Jdlrobson (talk) 21:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering how long it would take people to notice this :D I don't see a problem with this, we can do whatever we want with it at any time. Let them play, measure and find the best solutions. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:02, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I added an example for those are wondering where this is used. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:28, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Uncle Milty, it would be useful to have the closed tickets ID number. Then the ticket can simply be re-opened with some added detail instead of creating a "new" ticket that would simply get closed as a duplicate. :) Technical 13 (talk) 12:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought it was gone, but it was filtered out of my search. ID # 57748. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 13:47, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I noticed bugzilla:57931 while reading this thread. Yay for bugs! Legoktm (talk) 16:38, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Hidden comment constantly being removed

I have placed a hidden comment onto an article using the  tags to deter deleterious edits to the page but it seems that whenever an IP editor edits the page the comment disappears. Is this a consequence of visual editor and is there an alternative I can use so the text remains in the section of the article where it has been placed?—Ryulong (琉竜) 03:03, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Considering that VE isn't available to IPs at this time and the edits aren't tagged with the VE tag, it seems unlikely that VE has anything to do with it. More likely you've run into an IP editor who is deleting your comment. Anomie ⚔ 03:24, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Well shit. How do I keep it in there then?—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-prot the page? --Redrose64 (talk) 17:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

PC1 protection maybe? Technical 13 (talk) 18:57, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

An WP:Edit notice for the page is another possibility, but have you considered whether adding this is truly necessary and appropriate? "How do I keep it in there" sounds like an WP:OWNership issue. Have you considered whether the IP might actually be improving the page by removing a message that might seem unfriendly? WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:24, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I had put it in there because editors had been expanding the antagonists' entries to be summaries of the entire TV series from the point of view of the antagonists, which is still somewhat a problem on the article as evident here.—Ryulong (琉竜) 09:39, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Editnotice created. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:43, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Print template, print file

I can not print a (content) template from template space. How come, given that similar file and category pages I can print? -DePiep (talk) 11:32, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Please give an example. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:55, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

If you look at a page like Template:Diseases of poverty, it appears that the entire Print/Export section is missing from the sidebar. This is also true for your watchlist, pages that you're currently editing with the wikitext editor (but not VisualEditor), and more. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:18, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

And the "but not VisualEditor" part is now reported at Template:Bug. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:25, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

57940 is about Print/Export showing when editing with VE.

You can print {{Diseases of poverty}} by using your browser's File > Print. I can't see why you would want a book or PDF version. It appears that template and special namespaces don't show Print/Export, although MediaWiki namespaces do.

And Printable Version doesn't really do anything special. See Help:Printable. There is also a Bugzilla ticket discussing removing Printable version. -- Gadget850 19:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

As WhatamIdoing 19:18 writes: in template space I do not see/have the options (in main lefthand vertical menu bar) "Print/export": "Create a book", "Download as PDF", "Printable version". This submenu does appear when in article space, category space, my userspace. (A file I can print from commons).

I have not noticed an interaction with VisualEditor (I don't use).

I wrote this question expecting that it was based on a philosophy, about publishing WP. The browser's print function is not in discussion, it is about printing from WP. Any more questions? -DePiep (talk) 20:41, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Adding, the actual pages: not available in {{Periodic table}}, did got my print of page User:DePiep/Print (having the template transcluded). -DePiep (talk) 20:44, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I looked up some old template page snapshots at http://archive.org and didn't find signs of any Print/export options since Vector became the default skin in 2010. People rarely have reason to print template pages and your browser's print function should work fine so I don't see a need for a "printable version" link on template pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:20, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

The browser print option is there for articles too. The rarely argument could apply to other spaces too. But I understand there is no feature reasoning behind it, just forgotten back then. -DePiep (talk) 14:04, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Why cant I view all pages in Safari Reader

Hi, I'm a consumer more then a user and I have the following concern:

What human does, should be human conform. Misplaced Pages treats information and should be in this way brain conform.

The best way to read without any distractions - excluded these of the place your working at – is to use Safari Reader. This is not publicity, but just my personal opinion upon what is good informatics function: It let me do what I want to do: To read without distraction.

This is thus not possible with any other reader. If I make browser window smaller, I get bothered by the windows surface; if I apply full screen mode on browser, the text its spread on my 27 inch screen an becomes heavily to read.

Nevertheless, I experience tranquilly readying by using Safari Reader, not all Misplaced Pages pages can be read by this browser function.

I know, that this problem is discussed outside of Misplaced Pages, but my opinion is, that this excellent experience of reading is the best and should be possible on any Misplaced Pages site, hence it should be discussed on Misplaced Pages. Please let me know, if you have any good ideas, to access Reader the content of all Misplaced Pages sites, or you have maybe any suggestions of how to create Misplaced Pages’s proper function which give access to its content to a more brain conform way.

If not – I will be forced to buy a „higher-than-wide“-screen (3:1) and to install it in place of my 27 inch screen. Thanks for any comments on that.

Muntscher (talk) 14:33, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Did Apple release any documentation about how this thing works, even at a basic level? According to this, it depends on a number of factors, such as the page size. Is it possible that the pages it does not allow using the Reader on are just shorter? I don't see this as a problem with Misplaced Pages or the MediaWiki software per se, but feel free to file some sort of bug on our issue tracking system. πr (t • c) 04:58, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Script Error in Templates

Moved from Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive821 § Script Error in Templates

I was not sure where to post this, so I think the ANI is the best place. I noticed that Template:M1 year in topic suddenly has a script error. Judging by the templates it includes, the error seems, based on timing, to be the result of edits on Template:Navbar and Module:Navbar by Edokter (linked so she/he is aware, not because the report is about them). The Navbar pages are fully protected so I cannot edit them myself to see if they are indeed the source of the error. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:58, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

One of the greatest weaknesses of Lua modules, and something that Wikidata has to deal with all the time in its project namespace, is that if you have too many lua modules on one page, they stop loading after a while and you get that message. That might be what it is, but as I don't understand templates very well, it might be something else entirely. Sven Manguard Wha? 04:43, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Lua's worst problem has been the miserly 10-second timeout, which then stores "Script error" for each Lua function in the rendered page. Some have imagined the Lua clock ran like traditional CPU time, but numerous tests confirmed it can double (or triple) in slow servers (a 4-second Lua slows 2.5x as 10-second and craters). -Wikid77 00:34, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

@EvergreenFir: This should be at WP:VPT. If you have scripting enabled in your browser (JavaScript, nothing to do with modules), when a "script error" occurs, you can click the red error message to see a popup box with details. You can select that text and copy it, to be pasted into a report at WP:VPT.

@Sven Manguard: Ouch, I try to follow WP:VPT and have not seen any mention of a problem with modules (apart from the total runtime of 10 seconds per page, which is plenty). Is there a discussion about that somewhere? Has Anomie commented? Johnuniq (talk) 05:46, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh no, Lua 10-second timeout is way low, should be 20-25 seconds. Timing has confirmed slow servers can double/triple Lua clock and "safe" 4-second run slows to wannabe 12-seconds (aborted at 10-sec. limit). -Wikid77 00:34, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

OK, I should have clicked the first link above (Template:M1 year in topic). I had assumed that it was the usage of that template somewhere that had a problem, but it is actually on the template page. The error text is:

Lua error: Cannot pass circular reference to PHP.

Backtrace: (none)

A little digging shows the problem occurs when "{{#invoke:Year in other calendars|main}}" is previewed in a sandbox. Mr. Stradivarius may be able to throw some light on the matter, which is possibly in Module:Year in other calendars or one of the modules it calls. This section should be closed, with further discussion elsewhere. Johnuniq (talk) 06:14, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

My first thought is that it looks complicated, and that it might be a server-side change. It's not a change in Module:Year in other calendars, as that hasn't been edited recently, and it was working as late as 27 November when I made this comment. It might be a change in one of the modules it calls, which I'll investigate now. It is quite a hefty module, though (as was Template:Year in other calendars/old before it), so Sven Manguard may be on to something with the "too many modules on the page" comment. More in a second. — Mr. Stradivarius 07:03, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

It looks like the problems are coming from Module:Japanese calendar, but neither that or the modules it calls have been edited recently, so I think it must have been a change server-side that has broken things. I'm not sure yet about any possible fix. — Mr. Stradivarius 07:29, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Also, the module calls that are causing the script errors from #invoke work fine when used from the debug console. It appears to be only module invocations using #invoke that are affected. — Mr. Stradivarius 07:37, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

This appears to be due to the fix for Template:Bug, which was deployed yesterday. Module:Year in other calendars is returning various objects in its 'p' table. Removing those should fix the problem. If access to those objects is necessary for some other module, the p table could contain an accessor function which would return them. BJorsch (WMF) (talk) 14:15, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Yep, that's the one, and I've fixed it now. Thanks! It was confusing because I had done the same thing in both Module:Year in other calendars and Module:Japanese calendar. I got rid of the extra objects in 'p' for the former, and used an accessor function for the latter. By the way, where can I subscribe so that I know that things like this are coming? :) — Mr. Stradivarius 14:47, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

That's a very good question. Unfortunately, there isn't any non-developer-oriented place for change notifications. I suppose the closest thing is and (if only there were a way to filter out the "Localisation updates" entries) if you want to watch changes that have been merged, and will show you changes that are currently proposed, and shows open bug reports and feature requests. BJorsch (WMF) (talk) 18:33, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Raise Lua 10-second timeout: Meanwhile, keep pressing to raise the pitiful Lua timeout limit to 25 seconds. Many Lua timing tests have confirmed how slow servers can double/triple the Lua clock and a "safe" 4-second run slows to wannabe 12-seconds (aborted at 10-sec. limit). Should be 25-second limit, because unlike "wp:Wikimedia Foundation error" (WFE), Lua timeout stores "Script error" in the rendered page (forever) with no 70-second grace period to extend the formatting and save good results 7 minutes later. Again the Lua timeout is not a mere smaller version of the 60+10-second parser limit, and instead a Lua timeout scars the rendered page with "Script error" for every aborted Lua #invoke run after the 10-second cutoff. The Lua 10-second timeout is like narrowing a 7-foot (2-metre) road shoulder as 7x smaller along a mountain-side road at the cliff's edge (all because the Lua tires are better, except on gravel!). -Wikid77 00:34, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Custom edittools disappeared

Sometime in the past few days the custom edittools in my modern.js have disappeared from the Insert menu (from the character subset drop-down menu in the page-editing interface) when I'm using Firefox 25 or Chrome 31. The menu is intact in IE 11. Does anyone know if there has been a recent change in how JavaScript is implemented? I have verified that the current version of Java is installed on my machine, and, I believe, that it is functioning properly.

Problem occurs in Firefox 25.0.1 and Chrome 31.0.1650.57 m
Problem does not occur in IE 11.0.9600.16428
System is Windows 7 64-bit
screenshot of menu as it appears in IE. Tools circled in orange are standard; the rest are my custom ones.

Thanks in advance for any info, and please let me know if I should be reporting this at the MediaWiki support desk as well or instead. Eric 13:55, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Try adding the line if(window.updateEditTools) window.updateEditTools(); after the assignment to window.charinsertCustom. It's possible that something changed with the JS loading that is making your modern.js be processed after the main edittools script is run where it used to be run before it. Anomie ⚔ 14:20, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Hey, that worked like a charm! Thanks a bunch! Eric 14:31, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Wikicode or Extension for collecting comments/answers and users voting and ranking the most helpful?

I am developing a course in Wikiversity and I would like two tools to take advantage of peer learning, as in MOOCs. I wonder if there are already ways to implement these in wikis or whether we would need to develop new extensions.

I want to present a question prompt with a textarea input box for the user to input an answer. Then after submitting, the user would see the prompt, the course-recommended answer, and a page of all submitted answers (which have been stored with automatically added user's signature --~~~~).
I want for users to be able to click vote up or down comments/answers, so that a page will display postings in order by rank of up/down votes.

Is there a way to approach either of these functionalities with currently existing wiki tools or extension? I know we have some sort of polling tool for administration. Is it adaptable to these needs? If there isn't an existing way, is there a group I should contact that would be the logical place to propose developing these tools?

Note: In part this is a rethinking of an earlier question I posted in the Help desk here --Kenmayer (talk) 14:33, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

There might be existing extensions for upvotes/downvotes/likes/+1, but I don't know whether the devs/ops would be willing to install it on Wikiversity. Try searching on MediaWiki.org. It would be possible to write a quick JS hack to do something like this (assuming the user has JavaScript enabled), but it would log the username of every voter. Not sure if you want that or not. You might also be able to write a complex template or Lua module to do something like this, but I don't think it would be very good for the students. πr (t • c) 04:48, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Careful editors could vote in a preformatted, sortable wikitable: I have noted how wp:edit-conflicts during a 20-user edit session can be prevented by separating each user response by a separator line, such as table-row token "|-" between each response stored in the page. Ideally, each of 20-30 students would have voter-id codes (V1-V30) pre-stored as "line id codes" in the empty voting table, and then each student would respond by updating the row which has their voter-id code, putting remarks in the empty row, but as a sortable table. Example:

  {| class="wikitable sortable" <--also set columns for sorting
  ! Id || Issue || Vote || Time || Remarks
  |-
  | V1 || issue #1 || vote || ~~ ~ ~~ || (remarks)
  |-
  | V1 || issue #2 || vote || ~~ ~ ~~ || (remarks)
  |-
  | V2 || issue #1 || vote || ~~ ~ ~~ || (remarks)
  |-
  | V2 || issue #2 || vote || ~~ ~ ~~ || (remarks)
  |-
  | V3 || issue #1 || vote || ~~ ~ ~~ || (remarks)
  |-
  | V3 || issue #2 || vote || ~~ ~ ~~ || (remarks)
  |}

Explain to each student to update the rows for their voter-id under the "vote" column to "yes" or "no" (or whatever choices), and connect the 5 tildes ("Template:J") together, as the timestamp next to their vote. If the voting all occurred during the same month, then the time-of-day could be sorted by timestamp column, hours/days "0:01, 1-31 December" etc.

Also each voter could change their prior votes, if they felt misled or mistaken during an earlier response. Of course there is always the chance for glitches during editing of the wikitable format, but if various students were asked to "moderate" and check the table format, from time-to-time, then the wikitable of votes would be keep functional, and best of all: almost no edit-conflicts with 20-30 users all updating the same page within a period of minutes or hours. Also, any hostile comments could be redacted in such a system, although the "peer pressure" of all students meanwhile editing the same table would tend to "tone down" excessive remarks during voting. To reduce name-related problems, students could be asked to avoid discussing voter-ids, as semi-anonymous editing (although ids could be deduced), and privately discuss when someone else is editing under their voter-id. Due to the "magic" of the "|-" separator lines between rows, then all 20-30 students could edit the table at the same time, or announce "I'm saving edit now" to allow other students to wait 30 seconds before the next attempted Save-page operation. Even with the current primitive level of edit-conflict merging, such a voter-wikitable could be used to collect votes, allow re-votes, and sort the issues/votes into date-time order. Once sorted, then the total votes, for each related issue, would be easy to count. -Wikid77 (talk) 23:26, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

How soon do you need this? I believe that something like this will eventually be possible via WP:Flow , but I doubt that these sorts of advanced workflows would be before the end of next year (or the year after that, even). WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:15, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

So will Flow have upvotes? Will it keep track of each user's karma? I don't see why that would be needed. This is an encyclopedia, not a social network. Oh, wait, are you talking about creating a custom workflow that would be equivalent to likes/dislikes? Are there any examples of how this would work? πr (t • c) 04:34, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Template links as parser function

Just a random idea, but would it be worthwhile to replace the {{tl}} template with a more "built-in" method of linking to templates? (i.e. a parser function or something? {{tl:ambox}} instead of {{ambox}}?) Would it even be worth it? ViperSnake151 Talk 17:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I cannot phantom any reason why that would make a significant impact. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:58, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

The built-in method is a normal wikilink with namespace: Template:Tl. I see no reason for anything else. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, the {{tl}} templates are just wikilinks with some nifty css styling (templates are still linked like normal wikipages). Theopolisme (talk) 03:14, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

No, there's no way it's worth it. Right now, we have over a dozen tl* templates that do all sorts of linking, formatting, with or without parameters, and there are probably more that will be built in the future. It would be insane if we had to have a mediawiki update in order to add new tl* functions. This isn't even anything that would be worth it to try to do with lua - they're basically about as simple as templates get. Van Isaac_{WS Vex} 03:31, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
Template:tl runs 800x/sec, #ifeq at 750x, Lua 500x: Comparing the runtime of {{tl}}, as 800x per second, to the #ifeq parser-function at 750x/second, then the operations seem about equal, where {tl} must format the template-name wikilink and that involves a check for existing page to set link color blue/red, etc. Also, {tl} has remained static, as a rapid template, not burdened with 15 layers of /core subtemplates dragging /core2 subtemplates. A tiny template, inserting one word, runs at 2,400x/second. Formerly, the Lua Scribunto interface ran tiny Lua scripts at only 300x per second, but we complained and the developers quickened Scribunto in April 2013 to 500x-600x Lua per second. Some people have imagined that complex Lua script never gets slow, but runtime tests have confirmed how checking 100 parameter names and error-check formatting those Lua parameters does, as could be expected, slow the operation of Lua, where simple checks of just a dozen parameters might run 3x faster. Hence, the current template {tl}, as 800x per second, is running perhaps 2x faster than Lua could offer. -Wikid77 19:30, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Rollback error

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T59556

I get the following during my last few attempts at doing a Rollback: "Grabbing data of earlier revisions: parsererror "OK" occurred while contacting the API." I then have to hit the back button to get off that screen.

Using Firefox 25.0.01 on Windows 8.1. (Windows updated recently and may have something to do with it.) Any thoughts or info? GenQuest 17:38, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Do you have either twinkle or one the Beta features enabled? I remember there have been some similarish error messages. Chris857 (talk) 17:42, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Both. GenQuest 17:54, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Beta Features is the likely culprit. Previous reports of this issue: Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)/Archive 120#Twinkle, Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)/Archive 120#Twinkle problem?, mw:Talk:Beta Features/Nearby Pages#Twinkle (with technical detail).

According to bug 57556, the issue has been fixed. Hopefully we'll get the fix on the next deployment. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 21:18, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Practically none of the scripts in my User:Kudpung/vector.js have been working for a while. Some of these are quite important such as semi automated tools for admins for closing AfD and blocking/unblocking, etc. An admin working through backlogs gets used to these tools. The Bugzilla report states RESOLVED FIXED but it hasn't been fixed. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:58, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

It has been fixed, the fix just hasn't been deployed to Misplaced Pages yet. See mw:MediaWiki 1.23/Roadmap. (Because the fix was made after 21 November, it won't reach us with 1.23wmf5 - but it did occur before 5 December, so we'll hopefully get it with 1.23wmf6.) — This, that and the other (talk) 00:25, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

@Kudpung: you can just disable the BetaFeature which is causing problems you know. Legoktm (talk) 02:16, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Forgive my stupidity, but where do I do that disablement? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:33, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I believe at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures. Killiondude (talk) 02:40, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Ah, but I never had those enabled. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:46, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll just wait for the new deployment and see what happens. Worse case scenario, I'll get off the beta-test. GenQuest 17:54, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Unable to view all past proposals

On the main proposal page, the archives only go up to 105 but once I go to archive 105, the archives go up to 107. My peoposal Pending changes in archive 106 is no longer in the main proposal page. I assumed the main proposal page was archive 106 because the archives on that pagw went up to 105 but instead there's no way to go from the main proposal page which doesn't have the Pending changes proposal to archive 106 which does have that proposal in only 1 click instead of 2. The main proposal page should list all archives that contain a proposal not appearing in that page. Blackbombchu (talk) 18:23, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Well spotted! I've adjusted the header at the top of Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals) so that it displays links to archives 86 to 107. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:48, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Enhanced recent changes

I'm getting really annoyed. Enhanced recent changes isn't allowing me to expand grouped up edits (it was allowing it intermittently before, especially if I WP:BYPASSed my cache) except in really, really, rare occasions. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with removing jQuery from loading on all pages by default? Any one else experiencing this (I've tested on multiple machines with various OSes and browsers and two out of three of my accounts with the same results). Any suggestions on what may be causing it? Technical 13 (talk) 22:48, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I personally don't have enough time to investigate this, but I'm sure you could give more details. :) Please add ?debug=true or &debug=true to the query string and check the JS error console. P.S. AFAIK, jQuery is still loaded by default, but jQuery UI is not anymore. πr (t • c) 04:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Adding ?debug=true makes enhanced recent changes work, so there is nothing appearing in the error console when I do that. The error console without ?debug=true looks like:

Error console report

Same error console log with ?debug=true

I hope all of this helps you figure it out PiRSquared17. Technical 13 (talk) 02:25, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

O_O. That's a lot more than I expected. Order of magnitudes more. I can't duplicated this (works for me), so could you provide your browser and skin? I'm wondering if you get a JS error when you actually click the expand links. πr (t • c) 03:39, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

PiRSquared17, I've done some more testing to see if I can narrow it down and isolate it, and when I click the expand arrows/links and they don't expand I get nothing int the error console (I load the page and clear the log and nothing new appears). With ?debug=true set and the sections expand, I get the following JavaScript warning, but that is it:

 ReferenceError: reference to undefined property queue @ https://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%2CSpinner%7Cjquery.triggerQueueCallback%2CloadingSpinner%2CmwEmbedUtil%7Cmw.MwEmbedSupport&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=20131207T024812Z:26

It's a real nuisance having to add ?debug=true each time to make it work. I'll do some more digging because if no-one else is having an issue, it must be in one of the userscripts I am using or made. Technical 13 (talk) 17:03, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

old misplaced post

This had been hanging at the end of the "before posting" page for a month (does no-one ever read that? :-), apparently misplaced there and presumably intended for here:

IE8, W7, AATTV, paragraph 'Unit Badge'. In an endeavour to comply with Misplaced Pages verification criteria I edited the page to provide what I considered to be two verifiable sources. As these have been removed,(presumably by an administrator or similar), could you please explain my error). Laurencenic (talk) 01:22, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Joriki (talk) 08:06, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Presumably refers to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)/Before posting, and Laurencenic's comment refers to Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV), this edit via IP before registering their account.

The edit didn't actually add references, but added a link to the "see also" section. The link was to an article that doesn't exist. As it says in the subsequent revert, "see also" is just for linking related Misplaced Pages articles. See Misplaced Pages:Citing sources for information on adding sources. equazcion → 08:22, 6 Dec 2013 (UTC)

signature property problem

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T60099

On Benjamin Netanyahu, I'm getting a red error message:

Failed to render property signature: Property not found for label 'en' and language 'signature'

The line that specifies the signature using the signature property hasn't been changed for half a year, and the corresponding Wikidata item does seem to have a signature property that specifies a proper signature image file. The fact that it says "language 'signature'" when that should be the property label and not the language seems to indicate that something rather fundamental has gone amiss?

Firefox 25.0.1, Mac OS X (10.8.5)

Joriki (talk) 08:15, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

I did a quick test, and it appears that the code {{#property:label}} is broken on every page it is used on. The code {{#property:pnnn}} still works. From the error message it looks like the language and label codes are swapped around somewhere between the #property invocation and Wikidata. If the label doesn't exist on Wikidata, no error is returned - #property just returns nothing. I assume that this must have been broken in this week's software updates, but that is just a hunch. In your case you could use {{#property:p109}} and it should work, but that doesn't help for the other pages that are returning errors. I'm not sure who best to ask about fixing it, but filing a bug in bugzilla ought to get it to the right person soon enough. — Mr. Stradivarius 09:13, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

We are urgently investigating the issue. Thanks for reporting it. Katie Filbert (WMDE) (talk) 15:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

DISPLAYTITLE issue

The article Thunderbirds merchandise contains {{DISPLAYTITLE:''Thunderbirds'' merchandise}}. So I would expect the word "Thunderbirds" in the title to be italicized and the word "merchandise" not to be italicized. But using IE11 (or Chrome 31.0.1650.63 m) on Windows 7, I see both words italicized. Is that what everyone else sees? And if so, does anyone know how to fix it? Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 13:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:24, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 14:31, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Mysterious transclusion report

Misplaced Pages:Database reports/Broken WikiProject templates indicates that Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Taxation transcludes the (nonexistent) Template:Wiki project Templates. But I couldn't find any such transclusion, either in the project page itself, or any of the things it transcludes. Can anyone explain why this transclusion is being reported? Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 13:55, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

No, but I've fixed the problem by doing a null edit to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Taxation. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:27, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

It was the Nurhusien vandal. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:30, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you both. DH85868993 (talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Table sorting problems

Using IE11/Win7. I see various glitches with table sorting at List of elements. For example:

1. Load page. Click repeatedly on the sort button for the "Abundance" column (far right). Some clicks appear to do nothing, others appear to sort the table by atomic number (ascending or descending) instead.

2. Load page. Click each of the sort buttons in turn, from left to right, ("Z", "Sym", "Element". etc.). When I get to "Atomic weight" the sort ceases to function (on that or any other column).

Is this a browser bug or something in Misplaced Pages? 86.171.42.57 (talk) 18:20, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for finding this. I think I fixed it with this edit. There are 13 columns, but there were only 12 sort keys (don't know if that's what they're called). There was also a random test edit that I reverted, which didn't seem related. So, your browser and Misplaced Pages are fine, just a mistake in the table. Chris857 (talk) 20:17, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Chris, all seems to be working properly now, thanks very much for sorting it out. 86.171.42.57 (talk) 01:30, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

adding of categories facilitated on article creation

Is it possible for persons creating articles to be presented with a dropdown box of the categories at the time of submission. On choosing the desired category, the person can save the article. Thus work involved in looking for articles that are not categorized is eliminated?

Thank you

Anupama Srinivas (talk) 18:21, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

I oppose. Special:UncategorizedPages is made automatically so it isn't much work to find them. There are tens or hundreds of thousands of categories for articles so a dropdown box of "the categories" is not practical. And most articles should be in several categories. If we force new users to select one category then they would often make a poor choice and it's harder to find the problem articles to add better categories. It would also require a software change. The developers have better things to work on, and many new users would be frustrated when they are unable to save. And should it apply to moving drafts into mainspace? Drafts should not have categories intended for articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:41, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Template trouble

The answer to this is probably really obvious but apparently my brain isn't working properly. Why is the template on Dead to Fall (and related) pointing to User:Jax 0677/Template:Dead to Fall rather than Template:Dead to Fall as it should, and how can I fix it? Thanks--Jac16888 19:16, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Look inside {{Dead to Fall}}, the name parameter is set to User:Jax 0677/Template:Dead to Fall. Van Isaac_{WS Vex} 19:35, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Bingo, thanks--Jac16888 19:45, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

What links here doesn't link

According to this list, a lot of articles link to BB&T Ballpark. I had to link to similar article earlier this week and discovered the need to make that a disambiguation page, but after moving the article that was there, I found a bunch of articles where even if I clicked on edit and tried CTRL-F, I couldn't find the words "BB&T Ballpark". I know I fixed a template, but a bot has tagged the article now. I reverted the tag and reported the situation to the bot's talk page, because I'm just not finding the links.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:53, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

If you update a link in a template, as here, the links at Special:WhatLinksHere/BB&T Ballpark aren't updated immediately; you normally need to wait for the job queue to process them. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:00, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

I figured I had given it time.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 20:34, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

The job queue has been ropey since they reconfigured it about six months ago. It's two days since your edit - but it can take more than two weeks in some cases. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:16, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Ive noticed the same thing a few times. Surely that isn't normally what it should be like.Blethering Scot 21:29, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Pages seem to change in groups of 500 but some get stuck: (new essay: wp:Reformat) Even weeks after a change to a template has "completed" the relinking process, there might be several pages still stuck with old links, and could be cleared with null-edits. For years, it's as though a database read/write lock among several pages had caused a "relink conflict" and the pages could not be relinked when whichever wp:job_queue processed the reformatting job (wp:JQ says Misplaced Pages runs 3 queues at once). Also, according to wp:JQ, when more than 1,000 pages have the "invalidated cache" to trigger reformat, they are grouped as 500-pages-per-job, and checking WhatLinksHere tends to show progress as sporadic groups by hundreds of pages, either linked or delinked, in "fits and starts" where even the whole process can get delayed during the multi-day ordeal. Yet, always be prepared to null-edit the leftover stragglers when all jobs have finished relinking within the 3(?) job_queues. It would be great if a database write-lock timeout would re-queue each stuck page, to be reformatted as another job, re-added to a queue, but perhaps that requeue decision could not be handled down at the level of relinking each template used inside a page. With the Lua megatemplates, there are even more cases where changing a Lua megamodule would trigger formatting a "million" pages which formerly were reformatted as smaller groups of separate (near-redundant) fork templates, such as the 24 wp:CS1 cite-template forks now forced to all reformat 2.2 million pages for any Lua edit to the giant Module:Citation/CS1, or the new Module:Convert which would combine all the various 20,000-page, separate Convert subtemplates to always trigger reformatting all 554,000 pages for any Lua edit made to Module:Convert. I worry Lua has become used in a "pennywise and pound-foolish" architecture, running 6x-13x times faster than markup, but triggering 100x-1000x times as many page reformats as the prior smaller template forks, with /core subtemplates. Many Lua modules should use forced multi-fork, split designs (as multiple Lua modules) to trigger less system-wide reformatting of all pages. -Wikid77 15:06, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor template data filled by Google Code-in students?

(Edited my posts after a friendly chat with Equazcion--no info lost)

Wikimedia is participating in Google Code-in, where 13-17 years old students have completed already more than hundred technical tasks, including coding, documentation, QA, UX, and promotion. Students are completing tasks almost faster than we can create them. We need more!

If you, like me, have added VisualEditor template data to templates, you will probably agree that it becomes a boring task after the first time. Then again it is a very useful work. For GCI students, a task like this will be instructive. For en.wiki, this is a chance to get work done and new contributors with a potential to stick around. Note that this work would benefit not only en.wiki, but also all Wikimedia projects watching and using copies/adaptations of these templates. What do you think? It would be great if someone would step in, become a Google Code-in mentor, and coordinate this little project until January 6, when GCI ends. If you want to try before committing, just point me to 5 templates welcoming VisualEditor template data. I will create a task, and share here the news when the updated templates are ready for review. Then you can decide what comes next. Deal? PS: the last GCI task completed is a rewrite of Template:Interval in Lua.--Qgil (talk) 06:20, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

A tangential exchange was moved to User talk:Equazcion#VP Visual Editor exchange. equazcion → 07:24, 8 Dec 2013 (UTC)

There are quite a few templates listed at Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor/TemplateData#Commonly_used_templates. Perhaps some of the infoboxes? Theopolisme (talk) 17:51, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Global Wiki search?

Is there a way to run a global search across all (or multiple wikis) looking for different language versions of the same article or results from the same search term? Thanks.-Godot13 (talk) 19:44, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

@Godot13: - Have you tried a Google search - for example, search for "godot site:wikipedia.org" GoingBatty (talk) 20:00, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

I haven't tried but I will. Thanks-Godot13 (talk) 02:20, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Also include language codes in search: Mozart site:wikipedia.org es OR de OR fr OR el, because Google Search gives English-language webpages top rank, and adding the codes "fr" (French) or "de" (German deutsch) or "es" (Spanish español ) will cause those other-language webpages to list sooner among English pages. For "el" (Greek Elleniki ), the rank might be so low as to require a separate search with Greek site:el.wikipedia.org, but a topic like "Mozart" will appear in several pages for each language. -Wikid77 21:00, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

So, this might actually be possible in the not-too-distant-future. Right now, our current search setup is such that wikis don't really know other wikis exist (other than Commons). With the new search engine we're working on, all of the wikis search data will be in the same cluster and cross-wiki queries might well be possible. I'm already looking at using them for Commons search as well as some rudimentary interwiki search.

While a "search all the wikis" would be very cool it also has the ability to be resource-intensive, so we'll have to tread carefully. It's definitely something I've thought about very recently though :) ^demon 01:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I imagine the potential drain on the system for such searching could be huge. It would be interesting to see how efforts toward such a search function progress. Thanks.-Godot13 (talk) 02:20, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

There is a tool called Global Misplaced Pages Article Search at http://vs.aka-online.de/globalwpsearch/ --Snaevar (talk) 03:08, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Characters overlapping on my watchlist

This just started happening tonight. Anyone know why this overlap is happening? Dismas| 04:04, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't know, but I've seen this off-and-on for months? now. (I have Chrome, XP, if it matters). Chris857 (talk) 04:41, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

It's a Chrome bug that is sometimes triggered by left-to-right markers. — Edokter (talk) — 09:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the left-to-right markers, it's that Chrome has issues with <span dir="auto"> and multiple whitespace characters. I've just checked this in Chromium 31.0.1650.57 and reduced it to a test case of just

(<span dir="auto">foo    bar</span>)

(foo bar)

and still saw the issue. See also Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)/Archive 100#Anomalous Edit Summary and Template:Bug. Anomie ⚔ 13:12, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I filed a ticket in webkit for this not so long ago. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:25, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the other bug report. That one seems fixed in webkit/blink now, so quite possibly were are dealing with a related but subtly different problem with this case. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

"The other bug report" being webkit bug 94832? After looking that over and the comments on the linked fix commit, it seems to me it's only related in that they both involve dir="auto". Anomie ⚔ 14:18, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm seeing this in Safari, not Chrome. Dismas| 02:48, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

That doesn't surprise me: both are WebKit browsers. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:06, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Disappearing revert type edits and possible mis-identification as "can be undone"

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T31762

I've encountered cases when reverting an edit which the screen says "can be undone" and where it apparently accepts the revert but the edit never shows up. From the particulars, I'm guessing that it mistakenly identified an edit as "can be undone" when in fact it can't, (which I guess is a second problem) and then it acts as if it took the edit but doesn't. I've this happen 3-4 times in the last few weeks. An example is to try to revert the 3:07 4 December edit at Punk rock. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:16, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

(BTW I don't still wish to make that revert)North8000 (talk) 14:22, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

The mentioned edit has already been reverted in . If you undo the edit again and save then you make a null edit which isn't logged. Do you have en example where undo should make a change but doesn't? PrimeHunter (talk) 14:40, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) When I bring up the "undo" diff for that edit, it shows no actual changes in the diff, making it in effect a null edit which doesn't show up in the history. The undo logic should probably detect this situation and display a more appropriate message. Anomie ⚔ 14:44, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

@Primehunter, I don't remember where the other ones are. They might have been the same situation (reverting an already reverted item). Maybe the best thing would be to allow null edits and have them show up. This might help another situation which comes up. When I make a significant error in an edit summary, at first I tried null edits to enter a second correction to the edit summary. Then I noticed that they don't "take". Now someone has to make a small change in the article in order to enter an edit summary correction. North8000 (talk) 20:48, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Block quote formatting

Take a look at the bottom half of this. Note that the attribution line spacing is very wide, I think maybe even more than the actual quote. Where do I report this for fixing? Maury Markowitz (talk) 17:11, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

You should be more specific - I do not see anything special on that page. Ruslik_Zero 18:38, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

"We don't have fighter aircraft, we have fear-enducing aircraft"

French President Charles de Gaulle, speaking of the Mirage IV in 1963.

"We don't have fighter aircraft, we have fear-enducing aircraft"

French President Charles de Gaulle, speaking of the Mirage IV in 1963.(<small>...</small> removed here)

Sokolski 2004, p. 95.
Sokolski 2004, p. 95.

I guess it refers to the {{Quote box}} to the right. The line spacing is also large for me. It looks a little better when <small>...</small> is removed from the source parameter, but the line spacing is still larger than in the quote. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:10, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Common problem. When you reduce the font-size in a multi-line container, line-height is not automatically adjusted with it, but in some cases remains inherited from its parent. If you reduce the font size, you have to reset the line height to 1.5em as well. BUT... I note the font-size is too small anyway. — Edokter (talk) — 19:29, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The line heights are all set to "1.5em", but that depends on the font size in effect on the element where the 1.5em is calculated. The quote box has an inline style to reduce the font size to 88%, but the line-height is inherited from the page text (in my browser, it inherits 19.05px where 1.5em would now be 16.7833px). Due to the layout of the wikitext produced by the template, the quote itself gets wrapped in a <p> which has a stylesheet rule resetting the line-height (so that does get the 16.7833px), while the source text doesn't get the <p> and therefore is still inheriting the larger line-height. The <small> just makes it worse, because the line-height is still being inherited. I wonder why the line-heights are done as ems instead of plain numbers which have more sensible inheritance behavior. Anomie ⚔ 19:47, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

@Anomie: That's Template:Bug. tl;dr Because someone made a bad decision in 2005 and it's too much boring work and annoyance to change this now (as plain search&replace introduces minor interface changes). (There were three patches for this submitted over the years, none made it.) Matma Rex talk 20:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

It sounds like the problem with the most likely of those patches was basically "What if this changes how things look? Please prove to me that it won't." "I don't care enough to do that much work." Too bad. Anomie ⚔ 21:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

@Anomie: I never looked at that one, but I did look at gerrit:55126 which was almost exactly the same and it did change layout in unpleasant ways. Compare the "before" and "after" screenshots I added there: before after. Matma Rex talk 21:09, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

What, more space around the headings? That seems easy enough for someone to fix. Anomie ⚔ 21:33, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

@Anomie: Well, you're free to try :) Personally I have better things to do than to figure out the multipliers, and then manage the community here disgruntled because we moved a link by five pixels. Matma Rex talk 22:40, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I was looking at that and just can't remember why we used ems when we updated quote box. This should be discussed at the template talk. -- Gadget850 20:00, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

A site-wide fix would be easy: div, span { line-height: 1.5em; } — Edokter (talk) — 20:47, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

A better fix would be along the lines of gerrit:27043. Anomie ⚔ 21:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

That's quite extensive. Simply adding <div> and <span> to the <p> already in commonElements.css is more effective. All the other lineheights apply to specific elements anyway, with minimal risk of embedding. — Edokter (talk) — 21:28, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

In retrospect, my solution also has unwanted side effects. — Edokter (talk) — 21:34, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Edokter, what does the selector div, span pick up? I know what div, span matches: any <div>...</div> element and any <span>...</span> element. I also know that e.g. div matches the <div att=value>...</div> element. But what does the initial do in your example? --

Redrose64 (talk) 21:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Nothing really; it is already defined in commonElements.css with line-height: 1.5em;. That's why I put it in .  — Edokter (talk) —  22:29, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Still puzzled, so I want to see where this  is being used, but I've drawn a blank: for a start, what is commonElements.css? MediaWiki:commonElements.css is a redlink. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:23, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
It's in MediaWiki core, specifically this folder. — This, that and the other (talk) 06:32, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


Another RFPP Twinkle issue
I requested "raise protection" on one move-protected page, but it went to "lower protection section instead. Same for other such requests. --George Ho (talk) 01:32, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

The best place to post problems with Twinkle is at WT:TW. I'll take a look at this issue; it occurs because Twinkle is getting confused by the move protection already applied to the page. — This, that and the other (talk) 06:28, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Also please note that some (all?) of the section headings at WP:RFPP were recently altered, which broke the incoming links except when somebody came along and did this. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:32, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

advanced search needed
I am not the first one who ask for a really advanced search. e.g. here, here, and here. There should be an advanced search similar to Google or Ebay advanced search. i.e A friendlier usage of  the existing search parameters. is it possible? Ykantor (talk) 07:56, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

At present, we're using Lucene, via MWSearch. I believe that CirrusSearch is being tested as a possible replacement. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:45, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Confirming what Redrose64 wrote. If "advanced" search is wanted, it would be good to start by defining the problem that should get solved. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:19, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Exactly, "advanced search" says nothing, unless you define what options you consider to be advanced. There are some details about the current query capabilities of Cirrus search. If we can start by making a list of things that are not possible but desired and which of those options you would want to be exposed trough an advanced search page, then that would be very helpful. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:00, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
I guess it is better to have some improvement, rather than asking for the ultimate search, that requires a lot of work and thus risking getting nothing.   As said, let us start with the existing features (e.g intitle, prefix) but arrange it in a friendlier advanced search, similar to Ebay or Google one. e.g. the user may fill the intitle in a dedicated input box, even if he does not know what is the parameter inline name. Ykantor (talk) 14:17, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

View count stats
I've just noticed that the viewcounting tool appears to have stopped working. For example, Cyclone Bodil hasn't counted the views on the page for the past three days. Is there a problem?  The C of E   God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:29, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

It's an external tool. Problems can be reported to the operator at User talk:Henrik, but he rarely answers. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:09, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Template:Convert RfC hybrid proposal
RE: wp:Village_pump (technical)/Archive_120#Module:Convert


More forum shopping. Anybody who cares definitely already knows about that RFC already. There are reasons why we don't discuss everything remotely related to templates here. Matma Rex talk 14:37, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.



The prior request-for-comments at Template_talk:Convert#RfC, to switch {convert} immediately to Lua systemwide, has been strongly opposed, but rushed to occur 9-days earlier (on 11 December 2013), while an alternative sub-proposal was offered on 8 December 2013:

Alternative: "Template_talk:Convert#Propose hybrid Convert 10% Lua"
Unlike the markup-based Convert, with thousands of tiny optimized subtemplates which reformat only subsets of pages, the proposed Lua Module:Convert is designed to reformat all pages which use "{{convert}}" (~554,000 pages), for any tiny edit to that Lua module, while known bugs are not yet fixed. A recent test (/numdisp) showed how a reformat of 510,000 pages, with {convert}, exceeded an 8-day reformat period perhaps stretching into 2 weeks. The alternative proposal would introduce Lua Convert in a hybrid template to affect only ~60,000 of 554,000 pages, allowing a mix of both versions (Lua and markup-based Convert) to allow bugfixes or updates to either, and Lua-triggered reformats for just those 60,000 pages (3-day reformat?) until more problems are fixed or detected. For brevity here, please post opinions or questions (within 34 hours) under: Template_talk:Convert#RfC. -Wikid77 (talk) 13:59, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Wikid, perhaps I've missed something, but what strong opposition? I only see opposition from you in that RFC. — Huntster (t @ c) 14:11, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


No PNG views
I noticed for a while now that when you click on an SVG file, there is no longer a PNG viewer. I don't know if that is considered a bug, an error, or a issue there having with that. Blurred Lines 15:30, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Tech News: 2013-49
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
This newsletter is now posted using MediaWiki message delivery.
New features

The CommonsMetadata feature was added to all wikis. It creates metadata information about multimedia files (like their license) that can be read automatically by computer programs. It not only works for Commons, but for all wikis, and you can use it for files on your wiki by editing templates used to describe metadata. 
JavaScript code used on Wikimedia sites is now saved locally on your computer to load faster. 
VisualEditor

You can now paste formatted content copied from external sources (not just as plain text) into VisualEditor; this includes copy/pasting from other VisualEditor windows. 
You can now open VisualEditor by adding ?veaction=edit to the page URL, regardless of your user preferences. 
Many bugs have been fixed, and VisualEditor should also look faster, for example when you save a page. 
Problems

Due to issues, the new search tool ("CirrusSearch") was recently removed from wikis where it was enabled, then added again. 
Future

MediaWiki 1.23wmf6 was added to test wikis on December 5. It will arrive to non-Misplaced Pages wikis on December 10 and all Misplaced Pages wikis on December 12 (calendar).
The old Etherpad tool (replaced by a new version) will be removed on December 30, 2013. You can still save old pads before that date using the old address: https://etherpad-old.wikimedia.org. 
Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by MediaWiki message delivery • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

 16:10, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

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